are they f'ing nuts??
David H
So far, today, (actually, since 5:42PM)
*****you have trashed and denigrated Bordick's personal achievement of
raising his personal game to an acceptable level, in "Do whatever it takes
to get Cone"..........
*****complained and whined as if somebody stole $30Million from your
personal account to pay for Finley's salary, should he sign with the O's, in
a previous thread under this header........
Alan, perhaps you need to get laid. <);^)-
--
David Hageman/Jason Hageman
...proud affiliates of the Kelley Group
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<al...@min.net.notspam> wrote in message news:383b3af3$9$nyna$mr2ice@news...
> Gerry Sandusky just reported that a source told him the Orioles have
> offered 37 year old Chuck Finley a three year, $30 million contract, which
> makes them the current frontrunner in the Finley sweepstakes.
>
> Why?? Which member of the GM committee is responsible for this lunacy,
> and why is Angelos listening to him instead of immediately firing his ass
> for coming up with such a stupid idea? Who do they think Finley is, Randy
> Johnson??
>
> Folks, this team is going to suck for a long, long time. Maybe it's
> something in the water in the Oriole offices, but some factor has infected
> any and all GM types with "must sign 32 year old and above players to
> multi-year deals itis," which ensures we will remain a team of declining
> veterans longer than any of us suspected.
>
>
> Alan
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> *** Please remove .notspam from my address to reply via e-mail. ***
>
> Nerve Center BBS (Fidonet 1:261/1000) 410-655-4708
>
> Posted by Alan Hess using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
RayB - Claven
al...@min.net.notspam wrote in message <>...
>Gerry Sandusky just reported that a source told him the Orioles have
>offered 37 year old Chuck Finley a three year, $30 million contract, which
>makes them the current frontrunner in the Finley sweepstakes.
(snip)
Boy, I hope Sandusky was smoking crack. Like, a big ole' rock, right there,
on Television Hill...
RayB
al...@min.net.notspam
offered 37 year old Chuck Finley a three year, $30 million contract, which
makes them the current frontrunner in the Finley sweepstakes.
Why?? Which member of the GM committee is responsible for this lunacy,
Ron Johnson
?
>
>Folks, this team is going to suck for a long, long time. Maybe it's
>something in the water in the Oriole offices, but some factor has infected
>any and all GM types with "must sign 32 year old and above players to
>multi-year deals itis," which ensures we will remain a team of declining
>veterans longer than any of us suspected.
Ever read Bill James' essay in the 1984 Abstract about Frank's
Famous Lightbulbs? A joy to read.
YYYAss
>From: Ron Johnson rjoh...@cyberus.ca
>Date: Wed, 24 November 1999 12:02 AM EST
>Message-id: <mXA7OFCBipXR9Y...@4ax.com>
:^)
Mike
Ron Johnson
>>Ever read Bill James' essay in the 1984 Abstract about Frank's
>>Famous Lightbulbs? A joy to read.
>>
>Well don't be a tease, you little baseball slut, you. What's the essay about?
>:^)
>
From 1984. (Cut a fair amount. It's a long article)
About John Schuerholz's early days as a GM.
-------------
To this point in his career as a general manager, John Schuerholz
has yet to try anything that worked. <...> An organization that
just two years ago seemed strong enough to command their division
for a geration or more now stands on the doorstep of oblivion.
<...> More players spent the winter in prison than on the award
circuit. <...>
Let us look at the strategy that has brought the Royals to this
pass. The essential subject is replacement rates. Suppose that
in your house you have a thousand light bulbs, and that for
some reason it is important to you to keep all of those light
bulbs burning. You have two choices in light bulbs to buy.
You can buy Sylvania or GE or something, which costs a
little money but which can be expected to last for a couple
of years before they go pffft in the night, or you can buy
Frank;s Famous Light Bulbs, which are cheap but which only
last about three months on the average.
Now there is an initial gain involved if you buy Frank's
Famous Light Bulbs. And at first, you don't really notice
the difference. You've got a thousand light bulbs; you're
used to 42 a month burning out (1,000 divided by 24.
Twenty-four months, two years). In the first month maybe
54 light bulbs will burn out (958 divided by 24, plus 42
divided by three). You won't even notice a thing like that
at first.
Then the next month, 65 light bulbs will burn out. In the
third month, 77 will go out. Finally after about twenty
months of this, three hundred light bulbs a month are
snapping out on you, and you're spending hours a day in
which you should be either earning a living or enjoying
life, just running around checking light bulbs.
That's exactly what has happened to the Royals: The light
bulbs are burning out on them faster than they can replace
them. The Royals approach, in the Cedric Tallis era and
in the Joe Burke era was always to try to make a long-term
solution - a ten or twelve year solution - to whatever problem
arose. < Cites Amos Otis, John Mayberry and Fred Patek >
Their DH problem was solved eleven years ago by the acquisition
of Hal McRae, and has not had to be addressed again since. Their
second base problem was put to rest for the time being in 1976.
That was the way they attempted to respond to each and every
problem, without exception. It didn't always take, but that was
what they tried. They never tried to bring in people who had had
their shot in the major leagues. This is the complete list of
Kansas City Royals of 1976 who had played regularly with another
organization: Fred Patek (sort of), Dave Nelson, Cookie Rojas,
Marty Pattin.
That changed dramatically and immediately when John Schuerholz
assumed command of the organization. Needing a starting pitcher,
he packaged up a bunch of kids who had never done anything in
the major leagues - some kid named Atlee Hammaker, a kid second
baseman named Brad Wellman - to acquire a proven starter
(Vida Blue). When a problem arose in rightfield, he put together
another package for the Giants, a grade-B prospect named Bill
Laskey and another pitcher, so that the Giants would bestow upon
us a proven outfielder named Jerry Martin (who by the way, the
Giants themselves replaced with an unproven outfielder whom
they reclaimed from the refuse heap - Jeff Leonard). When Vida
Blue failed to plug even one hole on the mound and others began
appearing beside him, Schuerholz began buying cheaper and cheaper
light bulbs, hauling in Eric Rasmussens and Gaylord Perrys and
Steve Renkos, while pitching prospects waited impatiently in the
minors. This is the list of 1983 Kansas City Royals who had
played regularly for another team: Willie Aikens, Cesar Geronimo,
Jerry Martin, Greg Pryor, Leon Roberts, Joe Simpson, Vida Blue,
Bill Castro, Don Hood, Gaylord Perry, Eric Rasmussen and Steve
Renko.
There is no doubt, absolutely no doubt, that Schuerholz has
been unlucky as well as unwise. The moves that he has made
were designed to stall fate for one to three years, and instead
they've been lasting from zero to one. Vida Blue could easily
have gone 19-11 in '82 and 15-9 in '83, and it would all have
been different; I'm not saying at all that what Schuerholz has
been trying to do could not have worked within the limited
thinking of his options. He was trying to squeeze one or two
last pennants out of an old ballclub, and it could have
worked. It didn't.
<...>
The pathetic thing about Schuerholz is that he fancies himself
a gambler, but a gambler is precisely what he is not. <...> But
his whole purpose has always been to avoid that awful moment
when you have to rest your fate with an "unproven" player.
Schuerholz doesn't want to put Ron Johnson in the lineup and
find out why he hits .336 at Omaha; he wants to come up with
a "proven" player. Somebody like Bruce Bochte.
<...>
GG
Ron Johnson wrote in message <1bo7ODUykgb8bR...@4ax.com>...
Dan Szymborski
> The Royals won the World Series in 1985... so much for the lightbulbs idea.
Not without a change in strategy from before, however. They had
to start using Saberhagen, Jackson, and Gubicza, none of whom
had reached 24 by July of '85, in order to get the pitching
going. A healthy George Brett was also a big bonus.
And even then, it was lightning in a bottle. The 1985 Royals
weren't built for the long haul (which is really what you always
need to be doing when there are 4 or 8 playoff teams as opposed
to 2). Schuerholz tried to keep it going and failed miserably
as the Royals sank to below .500 in 1986, not really recovering
until a new core was in place by 1989, and even that didn't last
long.
--
Dan Szymborski
Cze...@msn.com
Charles Supha
<al...@min.net.notspam> wrote in message news:383b3af3$9$nyna$mr2ice@news...
> offered 37 year old Chuck Finley a three year, $30 million contract, which
> makes them the current frontrunner in the Finley sweepstakes.
It's been reported that his agent is looking for a contract of 3 years and
around $26 million. So If we really did offer him $30 mill, he should be
signed, sealed and delivered.
>
> Why?? Which member of the GM committee is responsible for this lunacy,
> and why is Angelos listening to him instead of immediately firing his ass
> for coming up with such a stupid idea? Who do they think Finley is, Randy
> Johnson??
10 mill is a little excessive for Finley. I think this just shows how
little quality is out there in the FA market for starting pitchers.
This kinda makes me worry, b/c now how much will it take to sign Mussina? 3
years 42 million? We'll have 3 people making almost $35 MILLION??? That is
insane.
C.
>
> Folks, this team is going to suck for a long, long time. Maybe it's
> something in the water in the Oriole offices, but some factor has infected
> any and all GM types with "must sign 32 year old and above players to
> multi-year deals itis," which ensures we will remain a team of declining
> veterans longer than any of us suspected.
>
>
timdav
Orioles:
*Charles Johnson, C (great glove, so-so hitter)
*Cal Ripken Jr., 3B (can still apparently hit, but should DH or play 1st)
*Albert Belle, RF (selfish but great power hitter, nightmare with glove)
*Mike Mussina, RHP (one of the best, free agent after 2000).
*Mike Trombley, RHP/reliever (pretty decent).
The Orioles are mostly:
*over the hill
*unproven (too young)
*over-paid
*prima-donna's
*some or all of the above
Some fans honestly think this is a contender?
And, virtually no help at AAA or AA.
Sad situation.
Steve Mack
> *Albert Belle, RF (selfish but great power hitter, nightmare with glove)
Didn't Belle lead the AL in outfield assists last year? Now sure, he's
nowhere near Gold Glove material, but "nightmare" seems a bit harsh. There
was a stint during last season when he missed many easy plays, but that was
clearly due more to laziness than lack of ability, which ties back into his
selfishness. But we've had much worse right fielders in recent years (e.g.
Eric Davis, Joe Carter, Geronimo Berroa, et al.)
--
Smack
"Good jazz is when the leader jumps on the piano, waves his arms, and yells.
Fine jazz is when a tenorman lifts his foot in the air. Great jazz is when he
heaves a piercing note for 32 bars and collapses on his hands and knees. A
pure genius of jazz is manifested when he and the rest of the orchestra run
around the room while the rhythm section grimaces and dances around their
instruments." -Charles Mingus
Stephen L Baker
attempt when i heard the O's were seriously considering signing both
Finley and Jackson. It's like Charlie Brown and the football!
In article <383b3af3$9$nyna$mr2ice@news>,
al...@min.net.notspam wrote:
> Gerry Sandusky just reported that a source told him the Orioles have
> offered 37 year old Chuck Finley a three year, $30 million contract,
which
> makes them the current frontrunner in the Finley sweepstakes.
>
> Why?? Which member of the GM committee is responsible for this
lunacy,
> and why is Angelos listening to him instead of immediately firing his
ass
> for coming up with such a stupid idea? Who do they think Finley is,
Randy
> Johnson??
Did you see the article on espn.com which states Angelos is not gonna
hire a GM? He's making all of the decisions now. Well, score some
points for honesty at least. Who's he gonna blame when the new
acquistions don't work out?
>
> Folks, this team is going to suck for a long, long time. Maybe it's
> something in the water in the Oriole offices, but some factor has
infected
> any and all GM types with "must sign 32 year old and above players to
> multi-year deals itis," which ensures we will remain a team of
declining
> veterans longer than any of us suspected.
The disease is called Angelos. You'd think he would've learned by now,
wouldn't you? How many times can they sign an over the hill player to
a multiyear deal and have it completely backfire before they decide
that might not be a good strategy?
I personally don't believe the minor league system is as barren as
everyone else thinks. It's certainly not top notch, but it's slowly
getting back to respectability. This was a farm system that about
three years ago was clearly the worst in baseball. It has improved
since then. Rome wasn't built in a day, ya know? The system lacks
depth to be sure, but I believe it is improving. I like to think of it
as a patient who was once listed in critical condition. I'd now list
it as stable. Not 100% healthy, but there are encouraging signs.
--
Step
"Opinions have vested interests just as men have."
---Samuel Butler
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ron Johnson
>The Royals won the World Series in 1985... so much for the lightbulbs idea.
Two year later (1984 Abstract is about 1983 season) and with
a huge infusion of young talent. Add Bret Saberhagen, Danny
Jackson and Mark Gubicza to any team and they'll improve a lot.
In part of the article I didn't include, James says "I'm not
pessimistic about the LONG-TERM future of the Royals."
The list of player in the organization that weren't quite
ready included Jackson, Pat Sheridan and Don Slaught.
Getting to the playoffs in the AL West in those days didn't
require a great team and once you're there...
And one of the worst calls in history was required for them
to win.
David Marc Nieporent
Stephen L Baker <stephen...@my-deja.com> claimed:
>I personally don't believe the minor league system is as barren as
>everyone else thinks. It's certainly not top notch, but it's slowly
>getting back to respectability. This was a farm system that about
>three years ago was clearly the worst in baseball. It has improved
>since then.
Yeah; now Baseball American ranks them all the way at *28th* out of
30.
>Rome wasn't built in a day, ya know? The system lacks
>depth to be sure, but I believe it is improving. I like to think of it
>as a patient who was once listed in critical condition. I'd now list
>it as stable. Not 100% healthy, but there are encouraging signs.
I think you underestimate it from before (based on the Os unwillingness to
use the system) and overestimate it now (based on hype.) The Os never had
any good position player prospects, but they had a large number of
promising arms, all of which either flamed out, were traded away, or were
buried. Sid's the _only_ one who really emerged.
--
David M. Nieporent "Mr. Simpson, don't you worry. I
niep...@alumni.princeton.edu watched Matlock in a bar last night.
3L - St. John's School of Law The sound wasn't on, but I think I
Roberto Petagine Appreciation Society got the gist of it." -- L. Hutz
LTCStanley
Eric Davis, Joe Carter, Geronimo Berroa, et al.) --Steve Mack<<<
=========
Eric Davis? LTCStanley
Pete Foosis
>The Orioles are dumb enough to fall into FA traps every year.
>They insist that they *must* sign somebody to make them look good and
>to try and pull the wool over the fans' eyes, then wind up paying
>mediocrities shitloads of needed money. So far they've signed
>Trombley, which is a decent move. However, they're trying to bring
>back Conine (ugh), Kammy (WTF!?), and have already re-signed May.
>They claim to be rebuilding, but I just don't see it.
>Hypocrites really piss me off.
>
When did they claim to be rebuilding? I'd have to see some evidence
to believe that.
As for Conine and Kamieneicki and May, well, it's not like they're
being considered for major roles on the team. They like Conine mainly
because he can play a number of positions. If they sign him, I'd
expect to see him as an overpriced utility player, getting around 400
AB for the season. Kammy could end up being a relative bargain as a
long reliever/spot starter. And May, I'd imagine, will just be a
little outfield insurance waiting up in Rochester.
As for Trombley, well, I guess I'd agree it was a decent signing, but
I'm thinking that maybe it was somewhere toward the negative side of
decent. Mainly, just too much money (then again, I see Slocumb just
signed a 2 yr deal worth something like $3M). If they sign Jackson
and Kammy, I'd imagine the bullpen alone will make as much as some
teams.
None of this bugs me as much as Finley, though. If they're gonna sign
an old man to a multi-year deal at around $10M per, I'd really prefer
it to be David Cone, health issues or not. Realy, though, I'd rather
see them trade for Ishmael Valdes, who it seems like the Dodgers will
give up for song.
Anyway, as for their strategy thus far, I support the logic that the
only way they can really improve the team this offseason is by
building up the pitching staff. I just wish The People in Charge had
half a fucking clue that when you sign an old guy to a multi-year
deal, you're pretty much stuck with him for the duration of the
contract.