Phoebe/RISCOS
Simon John
As I see it we have some company from the Netherlands interested in buying
the Acorn Workstation Division - but not in developing Phoebe. BTW who are
they - this Beggeman/Tulip company or whatever?
Castle Technology have exclusive rights for selling the remaining stock of
RiscPC's and A7000+'s as well as spares and support of the current range
excluding the NC's and Phoebe.
Peter Bondar's Steering Group has taken a step back - so must either be in
favour of what this Dutch firm are doing or cannot match their financial
backing or whatever.
Stuart Halliday's Acorn Cybervillage have an online form enquiring about
potential buyers of Phoebes/RO4 upgrades, so somebody must be interested -
possibly someone not even mentioned above.
There doesn't seem to have been any news from this Dutch company for ages and
no real news at all for over a week - although there was something about some
revelations in a couple of weeks somewhere on a newsgroup IIRC.
I've probably made some mistakes here so would like it if someone could point
them out and possibly add something that I don't know about....
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
No Woody, I said *TUCK* the kids in bed!
Greg Hennessy
<sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Could somebody clear this up please?
The platform is dead, get over it.
greg
David Courtney
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Could somebody clear this up please?
>
> The platform is dead, get over it.
I'm sure if Greg just said, resistance is futile you will be
assimilated. It would at least be clearer where he's coming from.
Clearing it up,
All right then: Acorn have confused the financial interest by a dutch
company with a future for pheobe. In fact the future of pheobe was
based on a group of third parties who were listening to what the
customer wanted. Now the new group are attempting to guage interest by
a self selecting poll. Leaving themselves counting the replies as I
assume there isn't alot of DATA to be got from them.
In brief we got very close to things coming right.
But Acorn out-classed themselves with dumbitude.
For **** sake they even signed a piece of paper with the right
answer on it. DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH!!!!!!
--
_______________________
http://www.jinksies.com I demand the right to know what is on my web site
Kira L. Brown
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:39:45 +0000 (GMT), Simon John
> <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Could somebody clear this up please?
>
> The platform is dead, get over it.
Not useful Greg.
Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
kira.
--
I'm using ZapEmail's signature facility, but I haven't installed my own file
yet... maybe this will remind me.
This is a tagline.
James MacDonald
<cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote (in 11 lines):
>The platform is dead, get over it.
Shut up Greg. The NeXT platform is dead, but does that stop me wanting
something to replace my Cube and Station? No. And if NeXT is dead, but I
still like it, think about what will happen to RISC OS when it dies.
Which it certainly will not do in the future; Acorn may have shafted us,
but they are not the people that will kill RISC OS. In fact, when
they're close to bankruptcy in about a year or so, they'll make their
money selling RO licences. ARM aren't helping matters by killing 26-bit
mode on their new cores, but that can be overcome - with difficulty, but
still possible. And there is always Amulet.
--
We are John Cage of Borg. Assimilation troubles us;
we have to take a moment. Poughkeepsie.
Luke Bosman
Greg Hennessy <cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:39:45 +0000 (GMT), Simon John
> <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> >Could somebody clear this up please?
> The platform is dead, get over it.
If you must send postings like this to c.s.a.misc then at least set
follow-ups to advocacy. I appreciate your posts there, but not here,
especially not without a smiley.
Cheers,
Luke
--
* I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, "Where's the self-help section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
Reply-to address is valid. ICQ# 13198442
PGP key available from http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lukebosman/luke.txt
For Southend Utd. news and results: http://surf.to/blue.anorak
For Fulwood Methodist Church: http://welcome.to/fulwood
Rik Griffin
sim...@argonet.co.uk (Simon John) wrote:
> Could somebody clear this up please?
>
> Peter Bondar's Steering Group has taken a step back - so must either be in
> favour of what this Dutch firm are doing or cannot match their financial
> backing or whatever.
The financial backing for PB's Steering Group _was_ the same Dutch company!
That's why what happened seems so weird. A brief summary:
Several Dealers/Developers agree to finance PB to investigate a "Phoebe
rescue plan"
PB talks to Acorn, who seem optimistic.
PB signs memo of understanding with Acorn, giving him exclusive rights to
negotiate (with Acorn) for 1 week.
PB talks to venture capitalists, who introduce him to Dutch company [DC].
PB talks to DC, who like what they see, and agree, in principal, subject to
all sorts of things, to the proposed rescue plan. Which was to be for the DC
to set up a Cambridge based subsidiary to make Phoebe, do R+D, etc
Dutch company talk to Acorn directly (or vice versa) and decide to eliminate
Steering Group (and presumably PB) from the picture. Thereby breaking Acorn's
agreement with PB, so it would seem.
This last part is pure conjecture on my part, the rest above is more or less
accurate (unless my memory fails me). From the horses mouth, as it were.
> There doesn't seem to have been any news from this Dutch company for ages
> and no real news at all for over a week - although there was something
> about some revelations in a couple of weeks somewhere on a newsgroup IIRC.
I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
groups ...
--
"This moment hangs, like your ragged hair."
Celebrate - Fields of the Nephilim
André Timmermans
> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
> groups ...
>
Acorn seemed keen to license/sell RISC OS, Phoebe and their NCs to
the Steering Group. I have the bad feeling that the Dutch company is only
interested in the NCs and not needing anyone from the Steering Group
for selling them decided to bypass the Steering Group and talk directly
to Acorn. If that company wanted to produce Phoebe they would have to sell
to the existing market, i.e. to the dealers which are behind the Steering Group
and would not have ejected them from the discussion.
André
Dickon Hood
David Courtney <da...@jinksies.com> wrote:
: In article <363a7904...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>,
: cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
: > <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
: > >Could somebody clear this up please?
: > The platform is dead, get over it.
; nods...
: In brief we got very close to things coming right. But Acorn out-classed
: themselves with dumbitude. For **** sake they even signed a piece of paper
: with the right answer on it. DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH
: DOH!!!!!!
Erm, that wouldn't have been the right answer for Acorn. Not in the
slightest. It might have been the right answer for the steering group, but
almost certainly *not* the right answer for Acorn.
--
Dickon Hood
Due to binaries posted to non-binary newsgroups, my .sig is
temporarily unavailable. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible. We apologise for the inconvenience in the mean time.
Ernst Dinkla
The same conclusion as I have made. With an exception on the Dutch
company. It is known that someone of the Royal Begemann Group was
introduced to the Steering Group by a Dutch dealer.
For reasons I described before I guess that RBG isn't negotiating
anymore but Tulip is. Though controlled by RBG, it is an independent
company with another task than RBG has.
Whether Tulip approached Acorn or vice versa isn't known by us.
If you read the memorandum and the news of the Steering Group after
that, you get a feeling that they were disappointed by Acorn and
not by RBG. So it could have been Acorn that made the approach.
In my opinion the Steering Group should start talking again with
Acorn. Maybe on a lower level and more informal, just to keep in
touch.
Ernst
--
Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk edi...@inter.nl.net
All views expressed are my own and may have no relation whatsoever
to the views of Acorn, Intel, Tulip, IBM, ARM, Sun, Compaq, Micro-
Ernst Dinkla
<URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
> In message <na.6d4856489c.a7...@argonet.co.uk>
> David Courtney <da...@jinksies.com> wrote:
>
> : In article <363a7904...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>,
> : cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
>
> : > <sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : > >Could somebody clear this up please?
>
> : > The platform is dead, get over it.
>
> ; nods...
>
> : In brief we got very close to things coming right. But Acorn out-classed
> : themselves with dumbitude. For **** sake they even signed a piece of paper
> : with the right answer on it. DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH
> : DOH!!!!!!
>
> Erm, that wouldn't have been the right answer for Acorn. Not in the
> slightest. It might have been the right answer for the steering group, but
> almost certainly *not* the right answer for Acorn.
And why did Acorn sign it in the first place if it wasn't the right
answer? Whether it was the right answer or not it shows again that
Acorn can't decide by themselves what is right.
Dickon Hood
Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
: In article <94e28c9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > Erm, that wouldn't have been the right answer for Acorn. Not in the
: > slightest. It might have been the right answer for the steering group,
: > but almost certainly *not* the right answer for Acorn.
: And why did Acorn sign it in the first place if it wasn't the right
: answer? Whether it was the right answer or not it shows again that
: Acorn can't decide by themselves what is right.
Do we know that they did? All I've seen is a posting on the Cybervillage
website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement it would be in Acorn's
interest to sign.
David Courtney
<dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
> Do we know that they did? All I've seen is a posting on the Cybervillage
> website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement it would be in
> Acorn's interest to sign.
Acorn's declared ambitions for the desktop market was to sell of the
exsisting stock and that's all. They refered to making it less of a
liability IIRC.
The agreement *OhSodItIllMentionItAnyway* left Acorn working on the
set top box. And ART would be duty bound to sell the stock as quick
as possible. With all collected monies going to Acorn. That saves
acorn staff and allows them to focus on their real profit. That of
producing installed thin client systems. In short shove the part
off that barely breaks even. Leaving a more profitable Acorn.
I'd also add on a Sunday Pete told us he'd have something to announce
by tuesday. A space of two days until positive announcments on both
sides as mentioned in the memo. So I think Acorn signed the document
on that Sunday.
Ernst Dinkla
> In message <ant29111...@edinkla.inter.nl.net>
> Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
>
> : In article <94e28c9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
> : <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
>
> : > Erm, that wouldn't have been the right answer for Acorn. Not in the
> : > slightest. It might have been the right answer for the steering group,
> : > but almost certainly *not* the right answer for Acorn.
>
> : And why did Acorn sign it in the first place if it wasn't the right
> : answer? Whether it was the right answer or not it shows again that
> : Acorn can't decide by themselves what is right.
>
> website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement it would be in Acorn's
> interest to sign.
Your arguments are running after another; first you state that the
deal couldn't have been the right answer for Acorn, now you say
that the deal wasn't there because it couldn't have been the right
answer for Acorn.
I'm sure the deal was made. It still wasn't an end result.
The intentions at least were put to paper. And signed by both
parties one would expect. Peter Bondar can't have been so stupid
that he revealed a memorandum like that without a formally signed
document.
More people have commented that it certainly wasn't an out of date
piece of paper that out of the blue appeared on Cybervillage.
That Stuart had to shuffle it under the carpet later on, had more
to do with everyones wish not to rock the boat too much.
Dickon Hood
Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
: In article <571e9b9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > Do we know that they did? All I've seen is a posting on the Cybervillage
: > website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement it would be in
: > Acorn's interest to sign.
: Your arguments are running after another; first you state that the
: deal couldn't have been the right answer for Acorn, now you say
: that the deal wasn't there because it couldn't have been the right
: answer for Acorn.
No, that was a question. Read it again.
: I'm sure the deal was made. It still wasn't an end result. The intentions
: at least were put to paper. And signed by both parties one would expect.
: Peter Bondar can't have been so stupid that he revealed a memorandum like
: that without a formally signed document.
I would certainly hope not. However, he didn't reveal it, so that's a moot
point.
: More people have commented that it certainly wasn't an out of date piece of
: paper that out of the blue appeared on Cybervillage. That Stuart had to
: shuffle it under the carpet later on, had more to do with everyones wish
: not to rock the boat too much.
And that he allegedly shouldn't have revealed it in the first place.
Frankly, the whole thing smells of a huge cockup, if you ask me. You didn't?
Well, I'll say it anyway.
Greg Hennessy
<kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
>
>Not useful Greg.
>
>Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
>Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
>
Undoubtedly :-), It's very hard to fight/FUD something that is free.
greg
Dave Vint
"Kira L. Brown" wrote:
>
> Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
> Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
>
> kira.
My favourite one was about Bill Gates local council. Apparently the planning
paperwork for his new mansion has totally devastated their NT network, so they
are dumping it and upgrading ..... to a Linux based solution ;-)
Dave
--
Dave Vint
Ernst Dinkla
<URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
> In message <ant29153...@edinkla.inter.nl.net>
> Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
>
> : In article <571e9b9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
> : <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
>
> : > Do we know that they did? All I've seen is a posting on the Cybervillage
> : > website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement it would be in
> : > Acorn's interest to sign.
>
> : Your arguments are running after another; first you state that the
> : deal couldn't have been the right answer for Acorn, now you say
> : that the deal wasn't there because it couldn't have been the right
> : answer for Acorn.
>
> No, that was a question. Read it again.
I've done that and the question mark doesn't have any influence IMO.
As David Courtney has written the deal had enough in it for Acorn.
That they can't make up their mind is the only conclusion I can brew
from what has happened till now. The negotiations have been positive.
An incident with the release of the memorandum may have triggered some
emotions but one wonders what harm it actually did.
> : I'm sure the deal was made. It still wasn't an end result. The intentions
> : at least were put to paper. And signed by both parties one would expect.
> : Peter Bondar can't have been so stupid that he revealed a memorandum like
> : that without a formally signed document.
>
> I would certainly hope not. However, he didn't reveal it, so that's a moot
> point.
Whether it was Peter Bondar or someone else of the Steering Group isn't
the issue. Someone faxed/emailed it and I doubt it was Acorn, or do you
suggest that Stuart was so eager to bring news that he made something up?
> : More people have commented that it certainly wasn't an out of date piece of
> : paper that out of the blue appeared on Cybervillage. That Stuart had to
> : shuffle it under the carpet later on, had more to do with everyones wish
> : not to rock the boat too much.
> And that he allegedly shouldn't have revealed it in the first place.
I really wonder about that. The message on Cybervillage said Peter Bondar
send it. I guess the parties involved weren't sure what was meant by;
"As a result of signing this memorandum press releases will be made
reflecting the positive nature of the agreement within 2 working days.
The contents of the agreement remain confidential to Acorn and ART and
its significant shareholders and protem non executive directors (AKA
the four wise men representing the Acorn dealers and software houses
interest)"
If I read this I guess Peter shouldn't have send it. If I were Stuart
I would have asked the Steering Group 'shall I make a positive
announcement in my own wording' or 'you want me to put this memorandum
on a WEBpage????' Maybe he did and acted on the respons.
A good lawyer could state that the memorandum wasn't the actual
agreement but just a paper of intentions that would lead to a
final agreement, enough phrases in the document for that.
Another good lawyer ......
> Frankly, the whole thing smells of a huge cockup, if you ask me.
> You didn't? Well, I'll say it anyway.
Incompetence instead of an evil scheme I'm afraid.
People getting angry and acting on that emotion isn't professional
either. Let them get around the table again and sort it out, if that
means not the same representatives around the table, let someone
swallow his pride. Must be worth it.
Chris Hughes
> > favour of what this Dutch firm are doing or cannot match their financial
> > backing or whatever.
>
> The financial backing for PB's Steering Group _was_ the same Dutch company!
> That's why what happened seems so weird. A brief summary:
>
> Several Dealers/Developers agree to finance PB to investigate a "Phoebe
> rescue plan"
>
> PB talks to Acorn, who seem optimistic.
>
> PB signs memo of understanding with Acorn, giving him exclusive rights to
> negotiate (with Acorn) for 1 week.
Slight error it was 3 weeks.
>
> PB talks to venture capitalists, who introduce him to Dutch company [DC].
>
> PB talks to DC, who like what they see, and agree, in principal, subject to
> all sorts of things, to the proposed rescue plan. Which was to be for the DC
> to set up a Cambridge based subsidiary to make Phoebe, do R+D, etc
>
> Dutch company talk to Acorn directly (or vice versa) and decide to eliminate
> Steering Group (and presumably PB) from the picture. Thereby breaking Acorn's
> agreement with PB, so it would seem.
Acorn spoke to Dutch company direct.
> This last part is pure conjecture on my part, the rest above is more or less
> accurate (unless my memory fails me). From the horses mouth, as it were.
>
> > There doesn't seem to have been any news from this Dutch company for ages
> > and no real news at all for over a week - although there was something
> > about some revelations in a couple of weeks somewhere on a newsgroup IIRC.
>
> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
> groups ...
Steering Group I believe are now awaiting the outcome of the negotiations
between the DC and Acorn, then they will have to talk to the Dc about Phoebe
not Acorn. I am told we should hear within the next 4 weeks. Some of this is
subject to stock exchange rules, so no whispers are likely.
--
Chris Hughes, Member of Wakefield Acorn Computer (User) Group
(The views expressed above are mine, and not necessarily the User Group's)
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
> In message <363a7904...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>
> cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
>
>
>
> Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
> Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
Yep Microsoft are very worried about linux damaging their NT market. With NT
5 not now expected to at least 1 qtr 2000 !! This will contain the year 2000
bug fix !!!!!
Given the 'devil' himself (Bill Gates) has ordered action against Linux, to
try and stop it spreading.
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:mo...@cheesey.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <489c3759...@argonet.co.uk>,
> sim...@argonet.co.uk (Simon John) wrote:
>
>
> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
> groups ...
Steering groups failure??
Read the steering groups last statement again.
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / NCS 'Acorn Centre of Technology'
Telephone: (01903) 523222 Fax: (01903) 523679
ch...@cje.co.uk http://www.cje.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN.
Chris Evans
> > the Steering Group. I have the bad feeling that the Dutch company is only
> > interested in the NCs and not needing anyone from the Steering Group
> > for selling them decided to bypass the Steering Group and talk directly
> > to Acorn. If that company wanted to produce Phoebe they would have to sell
> > to the existing market, i.e. to the dealers which are behind the Steering
> > Group and would not have ejected them from the discussion.
>
> The same conclusion as I have made. With an exception on the Dutch
> company. It is known that someone of the Royal Begemann Group was
> introduced to the Steering Group by a Dutch dealer.
> For reasons I described before I guess that RBG isn't negotiating
> anymore but Tulip is. Though controlled by RBG, it is an independent
> company with another task than RBG has.
> Whether Tulip approached Acorn or vice versa isn't known by us.
> If you read the memorandum and the news of the Steering Group after
> that, you get a feeling that they were disappointed by Acorn and
> not by RBG. So it could have been Acorn that made the approach.
>
> In my opinion the Steering Group should start talking again with
> Acorn. Maybe on a lower level and more informal, just to keep in
> touch.
Chris Evans
> the Acorn Workstation Division - but not in developing Phoebe.
Who says they are not interested in Phoebe?
So many rumours so little time!
> Castle Technology have exclusive rights for selling the remaining stock of
> RiscPC's and A7000+'s as well as spares and support of the current range
> excluding the NC's and Phoebe.
>
> Peter Bondar's Steering Group has taken a step back - so must either be in
> favour of what this Dutch firm are doing or cannot match their financial
> backing or whatever.
Read the Steering groups statement again, that was not what was said.
> Stuart Halliday's Acorn Cybervillage have an online form enquiring about
> potential buyers of Phoebes/RO4 upgrades, so somebody must be interested -
> possibly someone not even mentioned above.
>
> There doesn't seem to have been any news from this Dutch company for ages and
> no real news at all for over a week - although there was something about some
> revelations in a couple of weeks somewhere on a newsgroup IIRC.
It all takes time, yes something we are lacking, but you have to get it right.
Dickon Hood
Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
: In article <ed57ac9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > In message <ant29153...@edinkla.inter.nl.net>
: > Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
: > : In article <571e9b9c48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: > : <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > : > Do we know that they did? All I've seen is a posting on the
: > : > Cybervillage website which looked to me *nothing* like an agreement
: > : > it would be in Acorn's interest to sign.
: > : Your arguments are running after another; first you state that the
: > : deal couldn't have been the right answer for Acorn, now you say
: > : that the deal wasn't there because it couldn't have been the right
: > : answer for Acorn.
: > No, that was a question. Read it again.
: I've done that and the question mark doesn't have any influence IMO.
Well, that's your lookout.
: As David Courtney has written the deal had enough in it for Acorn.
I remain *remarkably* unconvinced by this.
: > I would certainly hope not. However, [Peter Bondar] didn't reveal it, so
: > that's a moot point.
: Whether it was Peter Bondar or someone else of the Steering Group isn't
: the issue. Someone faxed/emailed it and I doubt it was Acorn, or do you
: suggest that Stuart was so eager to bring news that he made something up?
No, I'm not accusing Stuart of forgery, if that's what you're trying to
suggest. What I'm saying is that perhaps Peter Bondar emailed the tentative
agreement before it had been signed by Acorn, Stuart posted it, Acorn decided
not to sign, possibly in part because of that.
: > : More people have commented that it certainly wasn't an out of date
: > : piece of paper that out of the blue appeared on Cybervillage. That
: > : Stuart had to shuffle it under the carpet later on, had more to do with
: > : everyones wish not to rock the boat too much.
: > And that he allegedly shouldn't have revealed it in the first place.
: I really wonder about that. The message on Cybervillage said Peter Bondar
: send it. I guess the parties involved weren't sure what was meant by;
: "As a result of signing this memorandum press releases will be made
: reflecting the positive nature of the agreement within 2 working days.
: The contents of the agreement remain confidential to Acorn and ART and
: its significant shareholders and protem non executive directors (AKA
: the four wise men representing the Acorn dealers and software houses
: interest)"
: If I read this I guess Peter shouldn't have send it. If I were Stuart
: I would have asked the Steering Group 'shall I make a positive
: announcement in my own wording' or 'you want me to put this memorandum
: on a WEBpage????' Maybe he did and acted on the respons.
More likely he hadn't taken in that paragraph, didn't think and just posted.
Simple incompetance, if you ask me.
: A good lawyer could state that the memorandum wasn't the actual agreement
: but just a paper of intentions that would lead to a final agreement, enough
: phrases in the document for that. Another good lawyer ......
From my inexpert knowledge of these things, that looked more like a heads of
agreement than an actual contract. However, IANAL.
: > Frankly, the whole thing smells of a huge cockup, if you ask me.
: > You didn't? Well, I'll say it anyway.
: Incompetence instead of an evil scheme I'm afraid.
I never said it was.
: People getting angry and acting on that emotion isn't professional either.
: Let them get around the table again and sort it out, if that means not the
: same representatives around the table, let someone swallow his pride. Must
: be worth it.
It may be too late. Given that (as I've said before) the machine was already
looking a little underpowered, and there'll be at least another three or four
months before anything can possibly be rolling off the production lines if
they start *now*, during which time the competition are getting rather better
rather quickly and the new company would be going nowhere just to get to
where Acorn were two months ago, the machine probably isn't viable.
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
Sorry there is no competition. I'm hardly likely to replace my two RPCs
with an A7000+ and CHiOS and the FT project are even further away than a
rescued Phoebe.
Oh! Maybe you meant PCs and Macs? Sorry that's definitely not
competition.
If nothing else happens for RiscOS (which I seriously doubt) then Linux
may be an option several years down the line.
--
Andy: skyp...@bigfoot.com / http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk
New aircraft pictures at http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk/bbmf.htm
Dickon Hood
Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
: In article <6f72109d48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > It may be too late. Given that (as I've said before) the machine was
: > already looking a little underpowered, and there'll be at least another
: > three or four months before anything can possibly be rolling off the
: > production lines if they start *now*, during which time the competition
: > are getting rather better rather quickly and the new company would be
: > going nowhere just to get to where Acorn were two months ago, the machine
: > probably isn't viable.
: Sorry there is no competition. I'm hardly likely to replace my two RPCs
: with an A7000+ and CHiOS and the FT project are even further away than a
: rescued Phoebe.
?
: Oh! Maybe you meant PCs and Macs? Sorry that's definitely not
: competition.
Macs no; IMHO little point leaving one dying minority platform for another.
x86, well, no, thanks. I'm looking at some slightly nicer hardware.
: If nothing else happens for RiscOS (which I seriously doubt) then Linux
: may be an option several years down the line.
NetBSD/alpha anyone? Rather nice hardware, rather nice OS.
Matt Rix
> Yep Microsoft are very worried about linux damaging their NT market.
> With NT 5 not now expected to at least 1 qtr 2000 !! This will contain
> the year 2000 bug fix !!!!!
And will also omit many previously promised features.
> Given the 'devil' himself (Bill Gates) has ordered action against Linux,
> to try and stop it spreading.
Perhaps he'll try to have it assimilated: Micro$oft Linux 98 - same ol'
Linux, now more Windows-like (full of secutity flaws, crashes frequently, no
source code provided, and requires 15x the disk space of any other version
of Linux).
;-)
--
Matt Rix Campaign for a Non Browser Specific WWW:
http://surf.to/bigrisc/ http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/
To respond by e-mail, first remove "||REMOVE||" from my e-mail address
Dickon Hood
Matt Rix <mjr_news@||REMOVE||poboxes.com> wrote:
: Perhaps he'll try to have it assimilated: Micro$oft Linux 98 - same ol'
: Linux, now more Windows-like (full of secutity flaws, crashes frequently,
: no source code provided, and requires 15x the disk space of any other
: version of Linux).
Ah, as a rival to RedHat?
Steve Bradbury
In message <ant291242bbaYH%4...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Yep Microsoft are very worried about linux damaging their NT market. With NT
> 5 not now expected to at least 1 qtr 2000 !! This will contain the year 2000
> bug fix !!!!!
>
Ah. So that's why the following appears on the MS homepage:
--->---
Windows NT 5.0 Family Name is Changing
The Windows NT 5.0 product line will be called Windows 2000, reflecting
its shift into the mainstream market. The line will launch with four
products.
---<---
They're still claiming that the products 'will begin to roll out in
1999'
--
Steve Bradbury Alan Dick & Co. Ltd.
steve.b...@alandick.co.uk Specialists in Masts, Towers
and Antenna Systems
Dave Santorum
<URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
> In message <ant30092...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>
> Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> : Oh! Maybe you meant PCs and Macs? Sorry that's definitely not
> : competition.
>
> Macs no; IMHO little point leaving one dying minority platform for another.
> x86, well, no, thanks. I'm looking at some slightly nicer hardware.
>
> : If nothing else happens for RiscOS (which I seriously doubt) then Linux
> : may be an option several years down the line.
>
> NetBSD/alpha anyone? Rather nice hardware, rather nice OS.
>
I was about to ask if many printers were using Alphas for prepress
work, and suggest that Macs were not that dead in this area - however,
it seems that a large number of design agencies /are/ moving to PCs
and NT <!cough>, retaining Macs for certain key areas, i.e. compatability
with the printers.
I'm no expert in this area, but the stranglehold of Adobe and Quark
surely means that backwards compatibility/portable file formats will
remain important in this area - will linux or NetBSD feature in the
next year or so?
DaveS, not saying that RiscOS stands a better chance either, mind.. ;)
--
d a m a g e p e r s p e c t i v e s
http://www.crespo.demon.co.uk/
"More plum-cake, Monster?"
Alastair France
<URL:mailto:steve.b...@alandick.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In message <ant291242bbaYH%4...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Yep Microsoft are very worried about linux damaging their NT market. With NT
> > 5 not now expected to at least 1 qtr 2000 !! This will contain the year 2000
> > bug fix !!!!!
> >
>
> Ah. So that's why the following appears on the MS homepage:
>
> --->---
>
> Windows NT 5.0 Family Name is Changing
>
> The Windows NT 5.0 product line will be called Windows 2000, reflecting
> its shift into the mainstream market. The line will launch with four
> products.
>
> ---<---
>
> They're still claiming that the products 'will begin to roll out in
> 1999'
>
And indeed they will. I confidently predict that they will roll out before
the 933rd December 1999, as Bill willl have redefined the industry standard
calendar to avoid the Millenium bug.
:-)
--
Alastair France
afr...@stet-os.demon.co.uk
Kira L. Brown
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:57:03 +0000, Kira L. Brown
> <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Not useful Greg.
> >
> >Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
> >Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
> >
>
> Undoubtedly :-), It's very hard to fight/FUD something that is free.
And who are they going to buy it off so's they can kill it?
(and their Netscape-killing tactic [0] won't work here for obvious
reasons...)
kira.
[0] 'Give it away free, thus undercutting the opposition.'
--
This user hasn't supplied a signature file for ZapEmail.
This is a tagline.
Kira L. Brown
Dave Vint <da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> "Kira L. Brown" wrote:
hehe, the 'so-called Kira Brown'...
> > Btw, have you seen the amount of coverage Linux has been getting recently?
> > Microsoft must be *very* nervous...
>
> My favourite one was about Bill Gates local council. Apparently the planning
> paperwork for his new mansion has totally devastated their NT network, so they
> are dumping it and upgrading ..... to a Linux based solution ;-)
Hehe, I don't think I can better that. But there was the US federal
postal system... that was a pretty big NT system, and now it's not.
kira.
--
This is a tagline.
Greg Hennessy
<kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
>And who are they going to buy it off so's they can kill it?
I can see the headlines now
"MS buy controlling interest in Redhat, S.u.s.e etc" :-)
greg
Kira L. Brown
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
Hmmm...
They'd have to buy Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Caldera, etc., and the rights to
the portions owned by all those little GPL people...
It'd cost them hundreds of billions of dollars.
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
> In message <ant30092...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>
> : Sorry there is no competition. I'm hardly likely to replace my two RPCs
> : with an A7000+ and CHiOS and the FT project are even further away than a
> : rescued Phoebe.
>
> ?
I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
have. Of course we'd like a faster machine and we'd like some of the
problems in RiscOS fixing but even if nothing happens there will be no
need to find a new platform for a wee while.
> : Oh! Maybe you meant PCs and Macs? Sorry that's definitely not
> : competition.
>
> Macs no; IMHO little point leaving one dying minority platform for another.
> x86, well, no, thanks. I'm looking at some slightly nicer hardware.
Frankly I'm unimpressed with hardware (my 200 Mhz SA is hardly stretched
as it is and still faster in feel and greater in productivity than
anything else I've used) but the OS is crucial.
> : If nothing else happens for RiscOS (which I seriously doubt) then Linux
> : may be an option several years down the line.
>
> NetBSD/alpha anyone? Rather nice hardware, rather nice OS.
And it would be even nicer with a RiscOS type GUI.......
Let's have Phoebe soon with the promise of the RiscOS Linux GUI running
on a nice multiARM machine.
Now that could see us with exponential growth of RiscOS users on one
platform or another!
dgs
Dickon Hood <dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
...
> What I'm saying is that perhaps Peter Bondar emailed the tentative
> agreement before it had been signed by Acorn, Stuart posted it, Acorn decided
> not to sign, possibly in part because of that.
^^^^^^^^^^^
The Steering Group's final statement said, amongst other things:
"Steering Group members signed a Memorandum of Understanding which Stan
Boland signed for Acorn..."
Whether this was the same document, or a related one, to the rather
curious thing that appeared on the Cybervillage is unclear; but,
unless you're suggesting that Laurie, Chris, Bernard and Keith are
liars (which I suspect you're not), Acorn did sign.
What you mean is that Acorn decided _not to go ahead_, which is a
different thing.
Manchester Acorn User Group - http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk/
RPC x86 Card Info Pages - http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/pccard/
"Your machine is NOT dead until it stops working" - Ian Gledhill
Dickon Hood
Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
: In article <e7bf1e9d48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>, Dickon Hood
: <URL:mailto:dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: > In message <ant30092...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>
: I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
: apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
: existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
: have. Of course we'd like a faster machine and we'd like some of the
: problems in RiscOS fixing but even if nothing happens there will be no need
: to find a new platform for a wee while.
Ah, yes. I intend to continue using this one until it finally dies. It's
fine ATM, barring the requirement to hold down delete, shift and * on boot to
stop it crashing somewhere in MessageTrans...
NFS (big discs, long filenames, >77 entries/directory, no that I use any of
those features much (barring the discs)), Zap, the Filer etc. keep me happy.
I don't want to lose any of them.
: > Macs no; IMHO little point leaving one dying minority platform for
: > another. x86, well, no, thanks. I'm looking at some slightly nicer
: > hardware.
: Frankly I'm unimpressed with hardware (my 200 Mhz SA is hardly stretched
: as it is and still faster in feel and greater in productivity than
: anything else I've used) but the OS is crucial.
There's that, too.
: > : If nothing else happens for RiscOS (which I seriously doubt) then Linux
: > : may be an option several years down the line.
: > NetBSD/alpha anyone? Rather nice hardware, rather nice OS.
: And it would be even nicer with a RiscOS type GUI.......
Yes. This isn't (realistically) going to happen. I wish it would.
: Let's have Phoebe soon with the promise of the RiscOS Linux GUI running
: on a nice multiARM machine.
No. ARMs make crap Unix boxen, believe me on this. I'd prefer Alpha. Risc
architecture, good instruction set, cute noise when you switch them on (Apple
and SGI have sold machines on this basis for years...).
: Now that could see us with exponential growth of RiscOS users on one
: platform or another!
Riscosalike users, maybe. Until you can find me another platform where F12,
modules, showregs, memoryi pc-20+40 does what I think it should, it won't be
risc os...
Dickon Hood
dgs <d...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
: In article <6f72109d48%dicko...@splurge.fluff.org>,
: Dickon Hood <dicko...@fluff.org> wrote:
: ...
: > What I'm saying is that perhaps Peter Bondar emailed the tentative
: > agreement before it had been signed by Acorn, Stuart posted it, Acorn decided
: > not to sign, possibly in part because of that.
: ^^^^^^^^^^^
: The Steering Group's final statement said, amongst other things:
: "Steering Group members signed a Memorandum of Understanding which Stan
: Boland signed for Acorn..."
I had missed that.
: Whether this was the same document, or a related one, to the rather
: curious thing that appeared on the Cybervillage is unclear; but,
: unless you're suggesting that Laurie, Chris, Bernard and Keith are
: liars (which I suspect you're not), Acorn did sign.
You are quite right, I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
: What you mean is that Acorn decided _not to go ahead_, which is a
: different thing.
Yup.
Gavin Dewar
> ..... snip....
> Let's have Phoebe soon with the promise of the RiscOS Linux GUI running
> on a nice multiARM machine.
>
> Now that could see us with exponential growth of RiscOS users on one
> platform or another!
>
Just seen announcement on
http://www.redhat.com.news-details.phtml?id=176.
October 27, 1998- -Corel Computer and Red Hat Software, Inc. today
announced an agreement to bring the Red Hat(r) distribution of Linux to
the Corel Computer NetWinder(tm)family of thin-clients and thin-servers.
Under the three-year agreement, Red Hat will port Red Hat Linux 5.1 and
future releases of the software to the StrongARM(r) processor, the
underlying architecture of the NetWinder.
``We are pleased to be able to offer our NetWinder customers the
benefits of the award-winning Linux distribution from Red Hat,'' said
Ron McNab, vice president and general manager of Corel Computer. ``The
partnership will allow us to concentrate on our core businessžbuilding
one of the most powerful and easy-to-use thin-clients and thin-servers
on the market.''
http://www,corelcomputer.com/products/linux/netwinder_ws.htm
Gives NetWinder spec as StrongARM SA-110 , IDE hard Drive, Ethernet
connecytions, 2Mg Video, parallel port for CD rom & Zip, keyboard &
mouse. etc $959 to $1639 dpending on HD options etc.
Interesting?
I am no hardware or Operating System expert but this sounds
interesting, could this be of any use to us RISCOS fans?
Could this be a short cut to getting RISCOS on a StrongARM Linux box?
What would be the problems in getting *our* apps to run on this box?
What do the experts say?
Cheers Gavin
--
Gavin Dewar |
Quercus Computer Systems | Design & supply of
Long Preston, North Yorkshire, BD23 4NS | Process Control Systems
tel 01729 840729 fax 01729 840728 |
Stephen Burke
> I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
> apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
> existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
In a sense, this is exactly the problem; if the existing users are
happy with what they already have, and there are no new users, there's
no business for dealers or developers. Look at how many dealers are
disappearing; ICS, Beebug and NCS have all stopped one way or another,
and they were three of the biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
--
e----><----p | Stephen Burke | E-mail: (anti-junk mail version)
H H 1 | Gruppe FH1T (Lancaster) | stephen.burke@
H H 11 | DESY, Notkestrasse 85 | desy.de
HHHHH 1 | 22603 Hamburg, Germany | All junk mail deleted on sight!
H H 1 | "It is also a good rule not to put too much confidence in
H H 11111 | experimental results until they have been confirmed by theory"
Ian Rawlings
Gavin Dewar <Ga...@dewarqcs.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Under the three-year agreement, Red Hat will port Red Hat Linux 5.1 and
> future releases of the software to the StrongARM(r) processor, the
> underlying architecture of the NetWinder.
[snip]
> Interesting?
It's also got onboard video input and output as well as a few other
standard things, it's very small indeed and very quiet. It's not
expandable though as it's designed as a sealed box machine specced for
a certain limited set of jobs, not as a general purpose machine for
hackheads like myself and most other linux enthusiasts.
> I am no hardware or Operating System expert but this sounds
> interesting, could this be of any use to us RISCOS fans?
> Could this be a short cut to getting RISCOS on a StrongARM Linux box?
> What would be the problems in getting *our* apps to run on this box?
Or even porting Riscos to run on it natively..
One big problem with looking at the NetWinder is that it's hardware,
if you want a computer system that is going to last and not go bust on
you, don't *ever* pin your hopes on hardware. I've been using Linux
for a few years now, and I can switch to a hardware platform based on
PowerPC, ARM, Alpha, 68000 or some others that I've forgotten. As all
my apps (apart from Qake II) run on *linux* and not the hardware
(i.e. they come as source) I'm feeling pretty market-immune at the
moment. Hardware is produced by companies, which can pull out of
markets. Linux and all but one of the apps I run are produced by
individuals and groups all over the world who make the source
available, meaning that the product can be forked off down another
path if the path the original authors take is not to the liking of
others.
As I've always invested significant time in my computer systems
(although not recently, now it's getting colder I might sort these
machines out once and for all!) I don't like the idea of the platform
going bust on me. This isn't a problem any more as I don't rely on
any commercial entity.
--
Ian Rawlings - ia...@pobox.DUMPTHISBIT.quza.com
There are no facts, only opinions
S.J. Crocker
wrote:
>In article <19981028....@cheesey.demon.co.uk>, Rik Griffin
><URL:mailto:mo...@cheesey.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <489c3759...@argonet.co.uk>,
>> sim...@argonet.co.uk (Simon John) wrote:
>>
>>
>> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
>> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
>> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
>> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
>> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
>> groups ...
>
>Steering groups failure??
>
>Read the steering groups last statement again.
You have said this three times, but what WAS the Steering group's last
statement?
Ernst Dinkla
The one in csa.announce by Paul Middleton;
Urgent announcement from the Phoenix Project.....
Ernst
--
Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk edi...@inter.nl.net
All views expressed are my own and may have no relation whatsoever
to the views of Acorn, Intel, Tulip, IBM, ARM, Sun, Compaq, Micro-
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:59:03 +0000, Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <19981028....@cheesey.demon.co.uk>, Rik Griffin
> ><URL:mailto:mo...@cheesey.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> In article <489c3759...@argonet.co.uk>,
> >> sim...@argonet.co.uk (Simon John) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
> >> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
> >> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
> >> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
> >> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
> >> groups ...
> >
> >Steering groups failure??
> >
> >Read the steering groups last statement again.
>
> You have said this three times, but what WAS the Steering group's last
> statement?
Here is the last two paragraphs, with tense changed to make it read
easier:-
The steering Group will:-
Work to convince the Dutch company of the value of the recent and
imminent Products, and encourage them to sustain the Dealer and
Developer community, so as to sustain the broad Acorn-Using community,
with all its enthusiasm, creativity and commitment to RiscOS.
In case the negotiations do not lead to that outcome we are continuing to seek an
alternative way of bringing Phoebe to market and continuing development of
RiscOS.
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
> In article <363ae45a....@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>, S.J. Crocker
> <URL:mailto:sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:59:03 +0000, Chris Evans <ch...@cje.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <19981028....@cheesey.demon.co.uk>, Rik Griffin
> > ><URL:mailto:mo...@cheesey.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >> In article <489c3759...@argonet.co.uk>,
> > >> sim...@argonet.co.uk (Simon John) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I doubt that without PB (or some other self confessed "anorak machine" fan)
> > >> at the helm of any new company that might be set up, that any moves will be
> > >> made towards producing any RISC OS based desktop machines. Has anyone heard
> > >> from PB since the news of the Steering Group's failure? Is he still involved?
> > >> If he were, I can appreciate he might be keeping a low profile in these
> > >> groups ...
> > >
> > >Steering groups failure??
> > >
> > >Read the steering groups last statement again.
> >
> > You have said this three times, but what WAS the Steering group's last
> > statement?
>
> Urgent announcement from the Phoenix Project.....
No I think it was
Steering group steps back
Copy of paragraphs in my reply to S K Crocker posting, this thread.
Chris Evans
> In message <ant29193...@edinkla.inter.nl.net>
> : > I would certainly hope not. However, [Peter Bondar] didn't reveal it, so
> : > that's a moot point.
>
> : Whether it was Peter Bondar or someone else of the Steering Group isn't
> : the issue. Someone faxed/emailed it and I doubt it was Acorn, or do you
> : suggest that Stuart was so eager to bring news that he made something up?
>
> No, I'm not accusing Stuart of forgery, if that's what you're trying to
> agreement before it had been signed by Acorn, Stuart posted it, Acorn decided
> not to sign, possibly in part because of that.
The following could happen:-
Someone is working on a PC Word document, A small bit of it is a summary
that you want to send someone! So you cut the rest.
You then send it as an attachment, to an email, with a comment of one
line, qualifying what you are sending.
The person recieving it has a problem with attachments and doesn't have
WORD so drops his inbox into EDIT. Finds the attachment decodes it,
finds some text within it, and doesn't see the one line note.
As WORD stores its undo buffer, the whole of the original document is
seen.
Now I know why a Commercial Bank Manager told me his IT Dept
won't let him have email access at work!
Ian Rawlings
Kira L. Brown <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> writes:
> Hehe, I don't think I can better that. But there was the US federal
> postal system... that was a pretty big NT system, and now it's not.
Then there's the U.S. department of "Labor" that's been dead
nationwide due to the NT system they're using. It's apparently been
non-functional for some time now, causing lots of problems. For a
somewhat confusing report, try;
http://www.slashdot.org/articles/98/10/30/1653236.shtml
Ernst Dinkla
<URL:mailto:ch...@cje.co.uk> wrote:
> The following could happen:-
>
> Someone is working on a PC Word document, A small bit of it is a summary
> that you want to send someone! So you cut the rest.
>
> You then send it as an attachment, to an email, with a comment of one
> line, qualifying what you are sending.
>
> The person recieving it has a problem with attachments and doesn't have
> WORD so drops his inbox into EDIT. Finds the attachment decodes it,
> finds some text within it, and doesn't see the one line note.
>
> As WORD stores its undo buffer, the whole of the original document is
> seen.
>
> Now I know why a Commercial Bank Manager told me his IT Dept
> won't let him have email access at work!
A classic example of the evil works of Word undo.
The arm of M$ seems to reach further than we thought and must
possess some artificial intelligence to act on its own as well :-)
And that could have happened between two Acorn devoted men?
There still remains the actual restrictions in the memorandum about
its release, wasn't that worth reconsidering the release and a call
for confirmation? It's nice to blame M$ of course ;-)
Richard Sargeant
> The following could happen:-
>
> Someone is working on a PC Word document, A small bit of it is
> a summary that you want to send someone! So you cut the rest.
[cut text is recoverable]
It's not something peculiar to PC Word. It's a feature of the
method of fast saving in Microsoft Word, affecting Mac ppl too.
You load a file, edit it and save it back and it records what
changes were made as a delta to the original document, making
it larger file than it really ought to be. One hint I learnt
from using Word on the Mac ten years ago was you always use
the "File: Save as..." option, mainly to save on disc usage.
Unfortunately, today's PC version of Word tries its hardest to
grind your floppy to bits when you save direct to the A: drive.
--
Richard.
Anti-UCE address: Sargeant at arcade dot demon period co period uk
Please translate this Anti-UCE address for private replies - thank you.
--
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ | Free Internet E-mail and Usenet News |
| / \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \ | +44 181 654 2212 also +44 181 655 4412 |
| A R C A D E | Croydon UK - Fidonet#2:254/27.0 |
| The Definitive Acorn BBS | http://arcade.demon.co.uk at weekends |
Ray Briddock
Kira L. Brown <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
> In message <3639f57...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>
> cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:51:19 +0000, Kira L. Brown
> > <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >And who are they going to buy it off so's they can kill it?
> >
> > I can see the headlines now
> >
> > "MS buy controlling interest in Redhat, S.u.s.e etc" :-)
>
> Hmmm...
>
> They'd have to buy Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Caldera, etc., and the rights to
> the portions owned by all those little GPL people...
>
> It'd cost them hundreds of billions of dollars.
>
> kira.
>
Consider this scenario...
Microsoft start to distribute Linux, in the same way as Red Hat, SUSE
etc.
People looking for an alternative OS will be reassured by the Microsoft
brand on a linux distribution. The concept takes off.
Microsoft, seeing an alternative revenue stream opening up advertise
heavily, putting other distribution channels under pressure.
A little later, MS Office appears for Linux. commercial of course.
Oddly, it only works on the MS distribution. How did that happen ?
The smaller distributors start to fall by the wayside.
More MS Apps appear for MS Linux. Strangely, they also do not work on
any other distribution.
The MS programming utilities for MS Linux appear. These use a propriatry
toolbox DLL or some such.
This DLL is included in the MS distibution for the users benefit,
allowing MS to start charging for the OS extentions and therefore for
the OS. Things are on a tenuous legal footing now regarding intellectual
property rights.
After being under significant pressure for some while, Redhat and Suse
and all now fold. They sue Microsoft. The case is scheduled in 3 years
hence.
Caldera continue to distribute GNU Linux, but that is now seen by many
as lacking the essentials and not compatible with MS Linux.
Game over.
Am I being too paranoid ?
--
Ray Briddock
http://www.alphabeta.demon.co.uk (Updated 22/9/1998)
Guttorm Vik
Ian Rawlings <ia...@pobox.DUMPTHISBIT.quza.com> wrote:
[ About Corel Netwinder ]
> One big problem with looking at the NetWinder is that it's hardware,
> if you want a computer system that is going to last and not go bust on
> you, don't *ever* pin your hopes on hardware. I've been using Linux
Depends why you move to NetWinder. If you move just to preserve your
existing RiscOS environment, then you're just postponing the inevitable,
but you *are* postponing it.. If, on the other hand, you move to linux,
but want the comfort of your old environment while linux struggles to
become user friendly, *then* a NetWinder with some sort of RiscOS seems
very interesting.
Personally I'm interested in it because it would presumably be much
easier to port StrongED to an ARM based machine (even without RiscOS),
than to rewrite it in C.
Cheers,
Guttorm
--
For your StrongED needs: http://home.eunet.no/~guttorvi/strong.html
Henry Helliwell
<URL:mailto:R...@alphabeta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Caldera continue to distribute GNU Linux, but that is now seen by many
> as lacking the essentials and not compatible with MS Linux.
>
> Game over.
>
> Am I being too paranoid ?
No
--
Henry Helliwell
he...@stohelit.demon.co.uk
Kristoffer Adcock
>In message <489D3EBBFF%kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk>
> Kira L. Brown <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <3639f57...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>
>> cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:51:19 +0000, Kira L. Brown
>> > <kbr...@neutralino.demon.com.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > >And who are they going to buy it off so's they can kill it?
>> >
>> > I can see the headlines now
>> >
>> > "MS buy controlling interest in Redhat, S.u.s.e etc" :-)
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> They'd have to buy Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Caldera, etc., and the rights to
>> the portions owned by all those little GPL people...
>>
>> It'd cost them hundreds of billions of dollars.
>>
>> kira.
>>
>Consider this scenario...
>
>Microsoft start to distribute Linux, in the same way as Red Hat, SUSE
>etc.
[snip]
>
>Game over.
>
>Am I being too paranoid ?
>
Stop! I'm getting shivers!
Cheers,
--
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Kristoffer Adcock (kr...@adcock.demon.co.uk, www.adcock.demon.co.uk) |
| (Destroyer of worlds, conqueror of galaxies, ravisher of women, |
| picker of noses, owner of StrongARM RPC, AMD K6 and Psion Series 5) |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/
David
Ray Briddock <R...@alphabeta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Consider this scenario...
>
[Snip MS-Linux world domination plan]
Or how about...
MS tries to usurp control of Linux as suggested and a hoard of Linux users
(What is the collective noun for Linux users?) descend on Bill's nice
new mansion and lynch the b&$!&rd.
Just a thought :-)
Chesney
Derek Haslam
Ernst Dinkla <edi...@inter.nl.net> wrote:
> And why did Acorn sign it in the first place if it wasn't the right
> answer?
Since when Has Acorn been noted for spotting the right answer? :-(
Derek
--
D.L.Haslam
Powerbase Support
Powerbase in Karos http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dljhaslam/
Stuart Bell
> : More people have commented that it certainly wasn't an out of date piece of
> : paper that out of the blue appeared on Cybervillage. That Stuart had to
> : shuffle it under the carpet later on, had more to do with everyones wish
> : not to rock the boat too much.
>
> And that he allegedly shouldn't have revealed it in the first place.
> Frankly, the whole thing smells of a huge cockup, if you ask me. You didn't?
> Well, I'll say it anyway.
Not the first Acorn cock up. But sadly, as far as desktop machines are
concerned, possibly the last. :-(
--
Stuart Bell
running a PowerBook 100, Color Classic and PowerMac 6500/275.
PB-100 FAQ at www.argonet.co.uk/users/sabell/pb100.html
Stuart Bell
> Macs no; IMHO little point leaving one dying minority platform for another.
Sorry - can't resist the flame-bait. Apple _is_ much smaller than the
PC market, but still a factor of 1000 to 10000 larger than Acorn.
Everyone was writing off Apple a year or so ago. Still not out of the
woods yet, but only idiots would definitievly write Apple off at the
moment. Whether or not it's justifiable, Apple is on a roll atm; iMacs
selling like hot cakes, 12% of iMac owners moving over from PCs;
something like 600,000 sold in two months. See what I mean about scale?
Peter Howkins
> (What is the collective noun for Linux users?)
>
Linoo ?, similar to Bedeveres prenounciation of Ni, in MPFC Holy Grail.
Peter
--
<p.j.h...@lboro.ac.uk>
Manuel Timmers
<URL:mailto:gutto...@eunet.no> wrote:
> Personally I'm interested in it because it would presumably be much
> easier to port StrongED to an ARM based machine (even without RiscOS),
> than to rewrite it in C.
Ahah, a man talkin common sense ;-)
Okay, When is StrongED comming out for the Psion Series 5?
>
> Cheers,
> Guttorm
Regards
--
Manuel Timmers, StarLight Corp., email star...@innet.be
Personal WWW-pages at http://www.club.innet.be/~year0332/
StarLight Corp. WWW-pages at http://www.whib.be/starcorp
**** Acorn Risc OS Systems: Seeing is Believing! ****
gutto...@eunet.no
Manuel Timmers <star...@innet.be> wrote:
>
> Okay, When is StrongED comming out for the Psion Series 5?
Early next week, but there might be some delays.. B)
Cheers,
Guttorm
--
For your StrongED needs: http://home.eunet.no/~guttorvi/strong.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
dgs
> Okay, When is StrongED comming out for the Psion Series 5?
When it has a suitable display?
[ followups-to .misc ]
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:fake.a...@no.junk.email> wrote:
> In article <ant30171...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>, Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.co
> m> writes:
> > I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
> > apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
> > existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
>
> In a sense, this is exactly the problem; if the existing users are
> happy with what they already have, and there are no new users, there's
> no business for dealers or developers. Look at how many dealers are
> disappearing; ICS, Beebug and NCS have all stopped one way or another,
> and they were three of the biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
Please get some facts correct here.
ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where also a
distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then they were supplying
it to other dealers could buy it! They also overextend themselves.
NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive Magazine is
now a seperate company.
Beebug are simply moving from there existing premises and only selling their
own software and doing networking. Less overheads, simple really. So Ok they
will now be a software house rather then a dealer as such. But they are
still here.
If we go on with comments like this I might not bother organising the
Wakefield Show.
--
Chris Hughes, Member of Wakefield Acorn Computer (User) Group
(The views expressed above are mine, and not necessarily the User Group's)
Glyn Royds
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> If we go on with comments like this I might not bother organising the
> Wakefield Show.
Now, now Chris! That really would be the last nail in the coffin!
All the best with it :-)
--
_ __ __ All views expressed in news postings are
/ '/ __ /_/__ __//_ my own and may have no relation whatsoever
/_///_// / / |/_//_//_/__/ to the views of my employer.
,_/ ,_/ ,_/
dawn chorus(n): Nature's way of telling the programmer to go to sleep.
Joyce Haslam
Glyn Royds <g.r...@xavier.bangor.ac.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant040004d07YH%4...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > If we go on with comments like this I might not bother organising
> > the Wakefield Show.
> Now, now Chris! That really would be the last nail in the coffin!
> All the best with it :-)
Nil carborundum illegitimae - don't take these comments as
representative. I have been hoping there would be a Wakefield show
next year, but I haven't anything worth saying about Phoebe, Chiber
et al.
Joyce.
--
Joyce Haslam using Ant+Pluto on an RPC 700
Stuart Bell
> In article <1998Oct30.175635.1@v2>, Stephen Burke
> > Look at how many dealers are disappearing; ICS, Beebug and
> > NCS have all stopped one way or another, and they were three of the
> > biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
>
> Please get some facts correct here.
>
> ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where also a
> distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then they were supplying
> it to other dealers could buy it! They also overextend themselves.
>
> NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive Magazine is
> now a seperate company.
>
> Beebug are simply moving from there existing premises and only selling their
> own software and doing networking. Less overheads, simple really. So Ok they
> will now be a software house rather then a dealer as such. But they are
> still here.
So what was inaccurate about Stephen's statement, "ICS, Beebug and NCS
have all stopped one way or another."? It's a sad statement of fact:
ICS stopped completely, for whatever underlying reason,
Beebug have stopped being a dealer,
NCS have effectively stopped being a dealer.
Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message! :-(
dgs
> > If we go on with comments like this I might not bother organising the
> > Wakefield Show.
>
> Now, now Chris! That really would be the last nail in the coffin!
No, it'd just mean some other, less experienced, user group would have
to organise a northern Acorn show instead ;-)
> All the best with it :-)
Likewise.
Andy McMullon
> In article <ant30171...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>, Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.co
> m> writes:
> > I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
> > apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
> > existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
>
> In a sense, this is exactly the problem; if the existing users are
> happy with what they already have, and there are no new users, there's
> disappearing; ICS, Beebug and NCS have all stopped one way or another,
> and they were three of the biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
No actually this comment was referring to people moving away from RiscOS
to other platforms and their business being totally lost - forever - to
Acron dealers and developers. These epeople are clearly not happy with
what they've got becasue the think (mistakenly) that the grass is
greener on Bill's side of the fence.
I was certainly not saying that I didn't want new and better hardware or
software! I have money waiting for Phoebe - still but only just. If
she doesn't appear soon then I spend it on something else - but NOT on
the alleged competition!
--
Andy: skyp...@bigfoot.com / http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk
New aircraft pictures at http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk/bbmf.htm
Stephen Burke
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <1998Oct30.175635.1@v2>, Stephen Burke
>> > NCS have all stopped one way or another, and they were three of the
>> > biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
>>
I seem to have missed this post first time around ... however, I don't see
why the facts are wrong. ICS, Beebug and NCS were all major Acorn dealers,
and they have all stopped being dealers this year. Indeed, I see on
cybervillage that Tower Electronics, one of the staunchest Acorn supporters
up to now, is also stopping. In the short term that may give some benefit
to the remaining dealers, but I can't see it as generally good for the Acorn
market.
>> NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive Magazine is
>> now a seperate company.
But the effect is that there's now one dealer (albeit maybe a somewhat
larger one) where once there were two.
>> Beebug are simply moving from there existing premises and only selling their
>> own software and doing networking. Less overheads, simple really. So Ok they
>> will now be a software house rather then a dealer as such. But they are
>> still here.
They still exist as a company, but you won't be able to buy hardware or
software from them except for their own products. Again, that means one fewer
dealer for people to go to. I'm living in Lancaster at the moment; where is the
nearest dealer that I could go to (i.e. with a shop I could visit, not just
selling by mail order)?
--
e----><----p | Stephen Burke | E-mail: (anti-junk mail version)
H H 1 | Gruppe FH1T (Lancaster) | stephen.burke@
H H 11 | DESY, Notkestrasse 85 | desy.de
HHHHH 1 | 22603 Hamburg, Germany | All junk mail deleted on sight!
H H 1 | "It is also a good rule not to put too much confidence in
H H 11111 | experimental results until they have been confirmed by theory"
Dave Clare - Home
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <1998Oct30.175635.1@v2>, Stephen Burke
> <URL:mailto:fake.a...@no.junk.email> wrote:
> > In article <ant30171...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>, Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.co
> > m> writes:
> > > I meant that for what I want to do, ie run my current very satisfactory
> > > apps on the OS I know and like, there is no competition. I think many
> > > existing users come into this category. We are satisified with what we
> >
> > In a sense, this is exactly the problem; if the existing users are
> > happy with what they already have, and there are no new users, there's
> > no business for dealers or developers. Look at how many dealers are
> > disappearing; ICS, Beebug and NCS have all stopped one way or another,
> > and they were three of the biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
>
> Please get some facts correct here.
>
> ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where also a
> distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then they were supplying
> it to other dealers could buy it! They also overextend themselves.
>
> NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive Magazine is
> now a seperate company.
>
> Beebug are simply moving from there existing premises and only selling their
> own software and doing networking. Less overheads, simple really. So Ok they
> will now be a software house rather then a dealer as such. But they are
> still here.
>
> If we go on with comments like this I might not bother organising the
> Wakefield Show.
WHAT !!!
Shut up you lot ;-)
Dave
--
Dave Clare - at home
William Gallafent
<URL:mailto:skyp...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> No actually this comment was referring to people moving away from
> RiscOS to other platforms and their business being totally lost -
> forever - to Acron dealers and developers. These epeople are clearly
> not happy with what they've got becasue the think (mistakenly) that
> the grass is greener on Bill's side of the fence.
Nah, definitely not. But then again there's more than one fence, and
Steve's new OS, based as it is rather heavily on the wonderful
NeXTSTEP, has a lot to be said for it, or if you're vaguely computer
literate, Linus's isn't too bad either :)
Cheers
--
Bill Gallafent
Stuart Bell
> Indeed, I see on
> cybervillage that Tower Electronics, one of the staunchest Acorn supporters
> up to now, is also stopping. In the short term that may give some benefit
> to the remaining dealers, but I can't see it as generally good for the Acorn
> market.
Indeed. The longer there's no (good) news about Phoebe, the harder it
will be for Acorn dealers to keep going. Tower's departure is very sad.
I can't criticise, having 'jumped ship' in August, but I do fear for the
future of Acorn, or rather Risc OS machines, in whatever form. Dying
like the Amiga would be a tragic end to a glorious decade (and a bit).
Stuart Bell
> Nah, definitely not. But then again there's more than one fence, and
> Steve's new OS, based as it is rather heavily on the wonderful
> NeXTSTEP, has a lot to be said for it, or if you're vaguely computer
> literate, Linus's isn't too bad either :)
Too right! I don't dare flame-bait on this n/g, but apart from the lack
of decent anti-aliasing, and true drag-and-drop from apps into
directories to save documents, I can't honestly say that I've
encountered any major disadvantages _from a user perspective_ in the
MacOS world. All the usual criticisms of Windross (bloatware, constant
system re-installing, need for constant h/w upgrades, system crashes,
etc etc are _not_ universal to the non-Risc OS world! ;-)
Alisdair McDiarmid
Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where
> also a distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then
> they were supplying it to other dealers could buy it!
What?
--
<alisdair mcdiarmid wrote this.>
<URL:http://www.illusion.co.uk/alisdair/>
Simon John
Alisdair McDiarmid <alis...@illusion.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant040004d07YH%4...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where
> > also a distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then
> > they were supplying it to other dealers could buy it!
> What?
I didn't like to ask that as I thought people might think I was stupid, but I
don't know if it's the grammar/wording or if it's just complete bo**cks!
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
128-Bit encryption and you can *still* read this?!
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:fake.a...@no.junk.email> wrote:
> In article <1dhyvac.16p...@userp729.uk.uudial.com>, sab...@argonet.co.uk (Stu
> art Bell) writes:
> > Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> In article <1998Oct30.175635.1@v2>, Stephen Burke
> >> > NCS have all stopped one way or another, and they were three of the
> >> > biggest. Who will be left in a year's time?
> >>
> >> Please get some facts correct here.
>
> why the facts are wrong. ICS, Beebug and NCS were all major Acorn dealers,
> cybervillage that Tower Electronics, one of the staunchest Acorn supporters
> up to now, is also stopping. In the short term that may give some benefit
> to the remaining dealers, but I can't see it as generally good for the Acorn
> market.
I am sorry to hear about Tower, but they obviously did not have much
confidence in the Acorn Market anyway it seems if they have pulled out
already. There are still plenty of machines around and strangely more people
are buying RiscPC's.
I agree in some ways that ICS, Beebug and NCS were major Acorn dealers, but
only Beebug have changed again as a direct result of the changes at Acorn.
Both the loss of ICS and NCS was well before Acorn pulled out. You have
lumped two entirely different reasons together as one.
> >> NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive Magazine is
> >> now a seperate company.
>
> But the effect is that there's now one dealer (albeit maybe a somewhat
> larger one) where once there were two.
And was nothing whatsoever to do with Acorn getting rid of the workstation
division.
> >> Beebug are simply moving from there existing premises and only selling their
> >> own software and doing networking. Less overheads, simple really. So Ok they
> >> will now be a software house rather then a dealer as such. But they are
> >> still here.
>
> They still exist as a company, but you won't be able to buy hardware or
> software from them except for their own products. Again, that means one fewer
> dealer for people to go to. I'm living in Lancaster at the moment; where is the
> nearest dealer that I could go to (i.e. with a shop I could visit, not just
> selling by mail order)?
OK they have gone as a dealer. As to Lancaster, I thought you had one not
far away, I will have look at my list.
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:sim...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <48A063FED9%alis...@illusion.co.uk>,
> Alisdair McDiarmid <alis...@illusion.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <ant040004d07YH%4...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>
> > Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > ICS went bankrupt because they undercut everyone and where
> > > also a distributor selling the software/hardware cheaper then
> > > they were supplying it to other dealers could buy it!
>
> > What?
>
> I didn't like to ask that as I thought people might think I was stupid, but I
> don't know if it's the grammar/wording or if it's just complete bo**cks!
Grammer/wording!
ICS were both a dealer and a distributor of software to other Acorn dealers.
They had this rather strange habit of supplying the software to the other
dealers at a trade price higher then they (ICS) were selling it to joe
public!
Stuart Bell
> I agree in some ways that ICS, Beebug and NCS were major Acorn dealers, but
> only Beebug have changed again as a direct result of the changes at Acorn.
> Both the loss of ICS and NCS was well before Acorn pulled out. You have
> lumped two entirely different reasons together as one.
So the decline in the Acorn market and Acorn pulling out of the desktop
market are entirely different reasons?
>
> > >> NCS have not gone they have become part of CJE Micro's, Archive
> > >> Magazine is now a seperate company.
> >
> > But the effect is that there's now one dealer (albeit maybe a somewhat
> > larger one) where once there were two.
>
> And was nothing whatsoever to do with Acorn getting rid of the workstation
> division.
Ditto.
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I agree in some ways that ICS, Beebug and NCS were major Acorn dealers, but
> > only Beebug have changed again as a direct result of the changes at Acorn.
> > Both the loss of ICS and NCS was well before Acorn pulled out. You have
> > lumped two entirely different reasons together as one.
>
> So the decline in the Acorn market and Acorn pulling out of the desktop
> market are entirely different reasons?
Yes in these cases they are! Since ICS went bankrupt for a number of reasons
unrelated to a decline in the Acorn market share. NCS became part of CJE
Micro's because Paul Beverley wanted to spend more time doing Archive
Magazine and be able to have a holiday on occasion.
Stuart Bell
> > So the decline in the Acorn market and Acorn pulling out of the desktop
> > market are entirely different reasons?
>
> Yes in these cases they are! Since ICS went bankrupt for a number of reasons
> unrelated to a decline in the Acorn market share. NCS became part of CJE
> Micro's because Paul Beverley wanted to spend more time doing Archive
> Magazine and be able to have a holiday on occasion.
I think it's stretching things to say that ICS' problems were
'unrelated' to the decline in the Acorn market share. 'Not directly
related' perhaps, but not unrelated, in that in a declining market,
there's more competition for customers, which forces prices down, which
reduces margins, which threatens profitability. . . .
Likewise with NCS, I don't for one moment suggest that Paul is
misrepresenting the situation, but if the market had been expanding, the
companies concerned would have been doing spectacularly well, and Paul
could have gone on holiday by employing lots more staff to do the work
while he enjoyed Barbados.
It's a bit naive to say that events in the Acorn dealer world are
'unrelated' to the overall Acorn market situation.
George Buchanan
>
> I think it's stretching things to say that ICS' problems were
> 'unrelated' to the decline in the Acorn market share. 'Not directly
> related' perhaps, but not unrelated, in that in a declining market,
> there's more competition for customers, which forces prices down,
> which reduces margins, which threatens profitability. . . .
year of trading ;-) Though from what they were when I saw
them, their turnover was pro-term *up* - the underlying problems
for ICS were not trading issues.
> Likewise with NCS, I don't for one moment suggest that Paul is
> misrepresenting the situation, but if the market had been expanding,
> the companies concerned would have been doing spectacularly well.
...erm, that doesn't assert a downward trend tho'.
--
George Buchanan
...speaking independently...
Chris Hughes
<URL:mailto:sab...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Hughes <ch...@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > So the decline in the Acorn market and Acorn pulling out of the desktop
> > > market are entirely different reasons?
> >
> > Yes in these cases they are! Since ICS went bankrupt for a number of reasons
> > unrelated to a decline in the Acorn market share. NCS became part of CJE
> > Micro's because Paul Beverley wanted to spend more time doing Archive
> > Magazine and be able to have a holiday on occasion.
>
> 'unrelated' to the decline in the Acorn market share. 'Not directly
> related' perhaps, but not unrelated, in that in a declining market,
> there's more competition for customers, which forces prices down, which
> reduces margins, which threatens profitability. . . .
George Buchanan has pretty well given you the answer in his posting about
this. It was not related to market share at all.
>
> Likewise with NCS, I don't for one moment suggest that Paul is
> misrepresenting the situation, but if the market had been expanding, the
> companies concerned would have been doing spectacularly well, and Paul
> could have gone on holiday by employing lots more staff to do the work
> while he enjoyed Barbados.
NCS was doing well enough for Chris Evans at CJE Micro's to buy it up as a
going concern. But for practical reasons transferred operations to Worthing
from Norwich.
It costs money to employee people which has to be paid for from sales, etc..
It was cheaper and more beneficial I suspect to sell on the NCS business.
>
> It's a bit naive to say that events in the Acorn dealer world are
> 'unrelated' to the overall Acorn market situation.
>
>
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