List of Earldoms in England ca. 1170

[Reedpcgen]

The Handbook of British Chronology has a section that briefly lists the Dukes,
Marquesses and Earls [and Counts] in England from their creation. I skimmed
the list and found the following Earldoms/Counties which existed in the
dominion of England/Wales during and before the period of William Longespee's
birth. They are:

Arundel [Sussex]
Aumale
Buckingham
Cambridge [merged with Huntingdon and Lincoln]
Chester
Cornwall
Derby
Devon
Dorset [see Somerset]
Essex
Eu
Gloucester
Hereford
Hertford
Huntingdon
Leicester
Lincoln
Mortain [King Stephen, his son William, and King John]
Norfolk
Northampton [merged with Huntingdon]
Northumberland
Oxford
Pembroke
Richmond
Salisbury [Wiltshire]
Shrewsbury
Somerset [only Willam de Mohun was vested of this title during that period, cr.
1141, d. 1155]
Surrey [Warenne]
Warwick
Worcester [only Waleran, Count of Meulan, deprived 1153]

So Ida of Norfolk it is [at least in England; the name Ida did occur in the
families of the Counts of Flanders/Hainault, Brabant /Louvain and Namur].

I would estimate, having just looked through the lot, that 80-90+ %
of the women the English Earls married during this very early period either
belonged to the families of other Earls in England or Counts on the Continent.
The percentage is so high that Ida, wife of the Earl of Norfolk, is almost
certainly of very good pedigree. In England, Toeni looks like a good prospect.
I have also begun a cursory search of early English pedigrees and have found
that Ida and Pernel are actually very uncommon names in England at that period.

pcr

[Adrian Channing]

I have found the following Scottish Earls for this period from A Directory
of British Peerages by Francis Leeson (followed by family name, and
creation-extinction/abeyance etc). I have not checked for Ida christian
names;

ANGUS (Gilchrist 1120-1343)
ATHOLL (Strathbogie 1115-1375)
CAITHNESS (MacWilliam 1129-1222)
CARRICK (Duncan 1180-1271?)
DUNBAR (Dunbar 1178-1434)
FIFE (MacDuff 1057-1425)
LENNOX (McArkill 1154-1425)
MARCH (Dunbar 1060-1419)
ORKNEY (Sinclair 1066/87-1470)
ROSS (Ross 1165-1461)
STRATHERN (Malise 1115-1346)

As well as

ULSTER (Courcy; de, 1181-1204)
BEDFORD (Bellomont 1150-?)
KENT (Ipre 1141-1163)
SUSSEX (Albinin; de, 1155-1243)

I do not guarantee that I have not missed any.

Adrian (Surrey, UK) ACha...@CompuServe.Com

<snip>

[Reedpcgen]

>From: ACha...@compuserve.com (Adrian Channing)

>I have found the following Scottish Earls for this period
>

>ANGUS (Gilchrist 1120-1343)
>ATHOLL (Strathbogie 1115-1375)
>CAITHNESS (MacWilliam 1129-1222)
>CARRICK (Duncan 1180-1271?)
>DUNBAR (Dunbar 1178-1434)
>FIFE (MacDuff 1057-1425)
>LENNOX (McArkill 1154-1425)
>MARCH (Dunbar 1060-1419)
>ORKNEY (Sinclair 1066/87-1470)
>ROSS (Ross 1165-1461)
>STRATHERN (Malise 1115-1346)
>

[There is also Mar. I just checked all these accounts in CP and there is no
Ida among the known wives.]

>As well as
>ULSTER (Courcy; de, 1181-1204)

[John de Courcy, not technically an Earl, m. Affrica of Man, and died without
legitimate issue. The creation was not until 1205, Hugh de Lacy, too late for
us.]
>BEDFORD (Bellomont 1150-?)
[I did not include Bedford because Hugh de Beaumont, created Earl in 1138,
lapsed into poverty and the Earldom became extinct until 1366, and therefore
didn't exist during our period.]
>KENT (Ipre 1141-1163)
[Eudes/Odo, Bishop of Bayeux was Earl 1067-1088. It then lapsed until Hubert
de Burgh, William Longespee's associate and contemporary, so that is why this
was not included.]
>SUSSEX (Albinin; de, 1155-1243)
[Wililam d'Aubigny was created Earl in 1141, son of Maud Bigod. He is included
under Lincoln (cr. 1139), and Arundel, which see.]
>
>

Good effort. Thank you.

pcr

P. S. In the post about Cecily and William of Poitou I should have said, 'Is
it possible that this is William, Count of Poitou,' rather than 'Isn't this the
Count?'

[Reedpcgen]

> In the post about Cecily and William of Poitou I should have said, 'Is it
possible that this is William, Count of Poitou,' rather than 'Isn't this the
Count?'

Well, I'd better correct myself before someone else does, having now had a
chance to look at a few things.

William [Longespee], brother of Henry II (during his lifetime known better as
either son of the Count [Willelmi filii comitis] or son of the Empress
Matilda), died unmarried.

William was born at Argentan 21 July 1136 [xi kal' Augusti]. It was proposed
in 1159 that he married the great heiress Isabelle de Warenne, widow of
Stephen's son William, who had just died in a campaign. Thomas Becket banned
the marriage on grounds of consanguinity in 1163 (even though Geoffrey
Plantagenet and Matilda were more closely related than the objected couple).
William died in 1164, it is said of heartbreak (makes for a better story).

Richard le Bret, one of Thomas Becket's murderers, is supposed to have shouted
aout, "Take this, for the love of my lord William, the King's brother!" See
Frank Barlow, _Thomas Becket_, 247, and J. C. Robertson, ed., _Materials for
the History of Thomas Becket_ 3:142.

Now, about Henry II's son William Longespee's birthdate. He was born in or
before 1170, as he was an adult in 1191. William of Newburgh (I. 280) asserts
that Henry II only became adulterous after Eleanor was beyond child-bearing.
Her last child (John) was born 24 Dec. 1167. So IF we are to believe
Newburgh's claim, William Longespee would be born ca. 1167/8-1170.

pcr