jms resigns rastb5
strac...@genie.geis.com
What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
in general, and me in particular.
To that effect, they lie, manufacture facts, speculate based on
premises that have no basis whatsoever in reality, engage in smear
campaigns, insult and abuse users of this area, drop innuendo when
they have nothing else to grab onto...they leap into threads that
should by all rights be reasonably safe from flame and turn them
into referendums on whether or not jms is a liar, in the kind of
logic that stems from "are you still beating your wife?" premises.
The progression is always the same: a smear message, or an outright
fabrication, gets posted; it generates heated replies from other
users; those users are then attacked for being unthinking followers
or sycophants (when the reality is that the original message was
bone-headed and simply *wrong), thus ensuring that the conversation
is not about the subject anymore, but rather the conversation becomes
about the conversation...and in that form, it can go on forever,
spreading out into more and more threads until all you see after a
while are flames in every direction.
I try to stay out of it as much as I can...but sooner or later
something so odious, so despicable, such an obvious, irredeemable lie
gets posted that I lose my temper and have to respond. I sit here,
and take sucker punches to the face, every single time I sign on from
some of the outrageous stuff that goes on here; I take it quietly,
but after you're punched in the face three, four, five times a day,
for weeks at a time, damn it sooner or later you're going to hit back,
and hard. And that's when the same cadre of imbeciles comes back and
says, "Gee, look at that, see how badly he behaves?"
More and more lately, I have been signing on here, and by the time I
log off, I'm furious. Furious for the unsubstantiated character
assassination directed against me...and over the course of the year
plus I've been here, not one -- not ONE -- of the allegations from
Fuller, Fuller or Thaxton have *ever* been proven out, but they just
forget that and move on to the next attack...as well as the attacks
on other users here who have chosen to defend me against these
baseless attacks.
In the past, where it's been just a few threads here and there, and
I knew what they were, I could just avoid them. But in their
ceaseless attacks, designed to provoke a response from me, they
have begun throwing their nets consistently wider, so that they're
all over the place; I can't avoid the hassles and the grief. And
if I see some of this crap, which is untrue and unfair and designed
for no other reason than to cause me grief...I get angry, and when
I get angry, I can't write, and that hurts the show.
And I will not allow the show to be hurt. When it crosses that
line...it stops. One way or another.
I've tried reasonable appeals; those were taken as signs of weakness,
turned into further attacks, and ultimately failed. I've asked
people here *not* to respond to these abusive individuals, because
if they get only silence for their efforts, they will go away; they
live for the echo of pain caused by their words; find validation and
reason to live in that echo. That failed. And now the level of
toxicity has risen to a level that can no longer be tolerated.
And before anyone even *tries* to turn this into "oh, joe just doesn't
want to hear negative stuff about his show, he doesn't want to hear
any criticism, he just wants to be god" (and you know who you are,
and fuck you too), it's got *nothing* to do with criticism of the
show, positive or negative, made from having genuinly thought out
the problems. I've always responded well to any kind of criticism
that is well-considered, and always will.
This has to do with a small handful of people who have, through
their incessant, stalking, compulsive behavior ruined this forum for
not only me but a great deal of other people who've emailed me to
say that they don't post here any more, because they've gotten
tired of being attacked, tired of reading the endless tirades and
smears and assaults on me and other users. The good people get
driven away, and the bad people refuse to go, or to moderate their
behavior, and there is no mechanism currently in place for others
here to moderate their behavior.
I have become, in many ways, the football used to pull others on
either side of the line into an ugly and destructive game. And
the only way to stop it is to remove the football.
So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month. To Ron
and the Rangers...stop sending me the list at that time.
Because the simple reality is that once I'm gone, the prime lure for
those who've turned this place into a constant flame zone for the
last year will have left. And in time, so will they. It's sad
when a handful of people can take something that is of value to
thousands, potentially tens of thousands, of users worldwide, and
chew away at it until there's nothing left, simply because of their
own twisted obsession.
I cannot go to bed, or get up in the morning, furious over the
latest offense committed here by the tyrannical few; I've lost
endless hours sitting here angry over the falsehoods and the
smears and the innuendo. I can't afford to do that anymore.
And just so they cannot weasel their way out of it later, cannot
say "well, it wasn't me, it was just the climate, it was the
fault of those guys over there...look, a comet...." I point the
finger squarely at the Theron Fuller, Deborah Fuller, and Ford
Thaxton, with a couple of other accomplices not worthy of comment.
I hope you enjoy seeing your names in a post by me, folks, since
that's what seems to excite you, because this particular message
is likely to be the last. You've finally succeeded in driving
me off rastb5, which was clearly your intent from the start.
I will continue to be present on CIS, Genie, AOL and a few other
places, which have more than their share of critical commentaries,
but are moderated to prevent this kind of abusive behavior. When
the rastb5-info group is open, I will post to that area, and take
questions via that forum. But I will no longer post to, or read
the main rastb5 area any longer. I simply can't afford the
heartache anymore.
The experiment in interaction between viewers and the makers of
B5 will continue; they just will continue in other places.
People ask why more producers don't come on-line. This is the
reason. Because there are some people out there who are obsessed
with anyone who has even the smallest celebrity (and there ain't
much smaller celebrity than being a producer); people who feel it
is their god-given obligation to tear down the other person, and
to make sure that there cannot *possibly* be anyone in their
universe more important than they themselves. They do not sow,
neither do they reap; they only shred and tear and abuse.
If you're ever going to see more producers on-line, you're going
to have to look seriously into ways to keep the least reputable
elements from turning it into a bloodbath. Because when some say,
as has been said here, "it's my right to say this, and you have to
take it," the response is, "No, I don't." If you stay, you become
an enabler, a co-dependent, who allows the abuse to continue by the
conscious decision to remain where you can be hit.
To the rest of you: I apologize for having to take this step.
Some of you know how difficult this decision has been for me, the
long months I've spent debating it back and forth with friends,
family and other netters. I have enjoyed the exchange, have learned
much from the commentaries, and the discussion, have made many
friends and acquaintances. Were there any way I could stay, be
sure that I would. But when I have to stare at a monitor, when
a script deadline is upon me, and all I can think of is, "That
goddamned liar is spreading the same old crap *again*," then
something has got to go. In this case, that's me.
Because sure as hell, they won't. Not until their punching bag
With the obvious exceptions, I will miss you greatly. As stated
above, I'll be here through the end of the month, just to finish
clearing out stuff, and ease this transition, though probably in
somewhat reduced capacity. I hope to see many of you via the new
info group. Though the discussion will not be quite so free
wheeling as it is here, because of the moderated structure there,
it will be good to look upon your faces (well, your pixels) in
the months to come there.
Again, my apologies. I wish this could be handled in some other
way, but that doesn't seem likely. You cannot know how your
words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show. It's
been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
See you on the flip side.
With great affection,
J. Michael Straczynski
Lars Joreteg
It is truly a sad day for the babylon 5 internet community.
But JMS desicion did not surprise me, I have been expecting this now for
months. Some things are just not worth the headache... :(
But I would like to thank you for staying with us so long, JMS. It has
been fun. Too bad it could not last longer.
Keep up the good work on Babylon 5!
God speed.
________
- Lars | _____] "It can be a dangerous
| | ___ place, but it is our
Lars Joreteg <*> |__|[_ \ last best hope
<ljor...@puc.edu> B A B__ Y \ L| O N ...for peace."
Computer Science ( \__/ | - B5 intro, season 1
\______/
Frank Lazar
strac...@genie.geis.com wrote:
> Again, my apologies. I wish this could be handled in some other
> way, but that doesn't seem likely. You cannot know how your
> words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
> not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show. It's
> been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
> See you on the flip side.
>
> With great affection,
>
> J. Michael Straczynski
Much as I'm greatly tempted, I wouldn't be crass enough to even try to
ask you to reconsider. I have first hand knowledge of the demands of the
creative and productive process, so instead I'll leave you with a farewell
gift of information.
I know that you use Lightwave and CGI in general for your animation as
opposed to models. If you want to mount something really impressive in
your office though, you might want to take a look at something called
Stereo Lithography. It's relayed in an article in the current issue of
Amazing Computing for the Amiga. If you like I'll send you details but
the nickel translation means that you can throw in a Lightwave file and
actually have come out a actual 3D solid piece of your object. It's not
quite as fast as a Star Trek replicator, but it's the closest thing to
it. Yes, you can have your B5 and model it too.
P.P.S. Take care and be well. May you succeed in the Great Making and in
the process be Greatly Made in turn.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| _ |
| We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ |
| We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ |
| Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ |
| And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ |
| \\__// \\ |
| These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ |
| \\ |
| |Frank Lazar fml...@ritz.mordor.com| \\ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald
time Ford returned in earnest & the Fullers made their first appearance)....
My reason wasn't so much the fact their arrival rapidly caused rastb5's
signal/noise ratio to rapidly approach 0 but rather the sudden increase in the
volume of posts as The Four approached (700-1000 odd posts a day are hard to
keep up with). Shortly before I left, JMS switched to a filtered newsfeed due
to the increasing number of story speculations/ideas that were threatening to
lead to "JMS stole my story idea" lawsuits. I return to find that the
gentleman who was generous enough talk to us on a very human level, give
insights to/make clarifications on the show & the story, who put up with a
LOT of BS from us has finally been driven off by 3 or so folks with no life &
way too much freetime..to paraphrase JMS...this is why more folks from the
inside of Hollywood don't come to the 'net. I look forward to the day
Berman rears his ugly head on the net & gets shredded...not by vindictive B5
fans looking to avenge losing JMS, but by all the petty "Roddenberry is God" &
"All praise to ST:TF (The Franchise)" ST folks.
They & their kind now have a proven track record of being able to run folks
off.
To JMS, the cast, & crew of B5 I send my best regards & wishes for even more
success....both with B5 and any other projects they undertake. I also hope
they can find a way to keep up with any new B5 Top Ten lists & other humorous
posts....I seem to recall Joe getting quite a kick out of them.
Ron
BTW, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.info made it's way to my newssite today...I'm
already registered :)
Paul Hess
(Gerard Henrich) wrote:
> strac...@genie.geis.com wrote:
> : I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
> : What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
> : rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
JMS - You'll be greatly missed -- Babylon 5 is truly a monumental
achievement, not because of any sci-fi fad or special effects but in a
timeless way that any true work of art posesses. Some of your episodes
are not only watched to watch, but to bask in the brilliance of a
completely holistic piece of work.
I was particularly in awe of the passion and precision that were put into
episodes such as "Coming of Shadows", "Comes the Inquisitor", and Soul
Hunter, which roped me into the show in the first place.
- Paul Hess
=========================================================================
Paul Hess | AI, Neural Nets, and Optimization Algorithms
Hess Consulting | Phone: 800-323-8790, In Va.: 703-478-0365
1707 Whitewood Lane | E-Mail: he...@digex.net, Fax: 703-478-0312
Herndon, Va. 22070 | Web: http://www.access.digex.net/~hess
=========================================================================
Live in Northern Virginia? Check out http://townweb.com/herndon.
Erik Selberg
fellow ding users) SCORE files... but I'll echo the sentiments of
another poster:
nuts.
-Erik
--
Erik Selberg
"I get by with a little help sel...@cs.washington.edu
from my friends." http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/selberg
Robert Hurt
sadness I seem him leave. Thanks for your countless hours of reading and
replying, of sharing your enthusiasm for your vision. Your choice saddens
me but I understand your reasons (and doubt whether in your position I would
have stuck it out as long).
To those whose lack of social grace and rudimentary manners, whose need to
accuse and attack and revile groundlessly, has driven
him away, congratulations. You've just destroyed your audience. Hopefully
like the dissolution of a shadow when the light is extinguished you all
will just fade away, your damage done.
Finally, for those familiar with Joe's haunts on the other online services,
could you please post where specifically we can check there for B5
news and conversation?
Thanks, Joe.
Robert H.
/ Robert L. Hurt, Ph.D. \ / Postdoctoral Researcher \
\ rob...@trifid.astro.ucla.edu / \ UCR Department of Physics /
-------------------------------------------------------------------
/ "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the \
\ pebbles to vote." -Ambassador Kosh, Babylon 5 /
David E. Wall
Farewell, JMS.
Thank you for participating in rastb5 for as long as you have.
I have regularly lurked here in down-below (carefully avoiding
the Fuller-esque thugs) to listen to the dialogue of an excellent
writer with the net-community. Your words, however brief, have
inspired, delighted, and educated me and those with whom I have
shared your posts. It is regretable, but understandable, that
you seek to devote your energies to your writing and not to
responding to these "folk" who wish to drive you off this forum.
Before you go, I just had to de-lurk... to stand in your way, as
it were (a loyal narn)... to make sure you understand that your
words here have inspired writing, reading and appreciation of the
art behind the scenes of creating an excellent show.
Thanks again.
David E. Wall
[return to lurk mode]
Bill Bottke
unfortunately in these times the only civil discourse
appears to be no discourse at all. The villians have
won, and we are all the poorer for it.
Good luck, Mr. Straczynski. I don't think I can state
how much I have enjoyed your daily postings to the net,
and how much I, my fiancee', and my friends have grown
to respect your integrity and vision. Babylon 5 is an
intellegent, thoughtful, and exciting drama which, at its
core, discusses the human condition and our responsibility
to live with and care for one other. I hope the individuals
who brought you to this decision will now reflect on their
actions and on what you were trying to accomplish with your
presence here.
Even though this a bitter time for you, I hope you will
remember in time that the vast majority on this newsgroup
were extremely thrilled and grateful to have you take time
out of your busy schedule to discuss the themes and details
of your show and of your life. Your actions *do* make a
difference to many of us.
With best regards,
Bill Bottke
Department of Planetary Sciences and
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
bot...@lpl.arizona.edu
Inge Heyer
|> D. E. Bath <ba...@aud.alcatel.com> wrote:
|> >Damn!!!
|> >
|> >JMS's posts were the main reason I even read this group. I'm gone too.
Same here. I read the news in order to get information, and JMS's post
were providing that in abundance (and being fun reading to boot). I have
no further reason to read this group, so I'm outta here at the end of the
month. As much as I favor the democratic process, something needs fixing
here, but I leave it to the polisci folks to figure out what to do.
Inge Heyer
ConCom: Shore Leave 18 (Baltimore, MD, 7/12-14/96)
****************************************************************************
* Inge Heyer *I am a private Star Trek collector. *
*email: he...@stsci.edu *Please let me know of old and/or rare*
*voice: (410)338-5017 (24 hrs.) *items offered for sale or trade. *
*snail: Space Telescope Science Inst.*I am available to give astronomy *
* 3700 San Martin Dr. *lectures and slide presentations at *
* Baltimore, MD 21218 *conventions and other events. *
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer: My employer has hir own opinions.
--
Peronet Despeignes
: I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
: What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
: rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
: who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
: in general, and me in particular.
For goodness sake, JMS, I'm sorry you let it get to this point. I
would've begged you to leave sooner if I knew the effect it was all
having on you was this severe. Best of luck with the presentation of
your vision and the sucess of the show. May you excercise your
freedom to avoid this kind of senselessness and aggravation a little more
quickly and more agressively in the future. As General Colin Powell
was apparently able to determine for himself, it's just not worth it.
Mobility is the most powerful tool we all posess to avoid the senseless
out there and focus our energies on what's really important to us. Take care.
Perry D.
: To that effect, they lie, manufacture facts, speculate based on
Paul Heroy
the newsgroup, but as it's degenerated, increasingly only skimmed it for
comments from you and a few others. Though it's disappointing that this
step must be taken, I've expected it for some time and fully agree with
your reasons.
A million thanks for all that you *have* shared with us; I'm grateful for
the insights, inspiration, and dedication that you have brought to both
the newsgroup and B5.
Paul Heroy
--
Paul Heroy - Paul_...@nt.com
Gerard Henrich
: I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
: What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
: rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
[SNIP]
: See you on the flip side.
: J. Michael Straczynski
Good bye sir.
Well, people pat yourselves on the back for this one.
You got what you wanted. Now you have no reason to be
here.
Once again the few destroy the entertainment of the
many.........such as is a free country.
k.
alvin plummera
Goodbye.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
The uncontrolled flow of information has both benefits and costs: we are
currently witnessing one of the prices exacted.
Reply to: alvin....@SHERIDANC.ON.CA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael W. Grenier
But I will no longer post to, or read
>the main rastb5 area any longer. I simply can't afford the
>heartache anymore.
>Again, my apologies. I wish this could be handled in some other
>way, but that doesn't seem likely.
What can we say. This is really a shame. The insight
we received from a producer and a writer was really
invaluable. I loved the comparisons with other SF
stories (Lord of the Rings, etc) and how the methods used
to tell a story (e.g. foreshadowing) and to create
conflict and resolution were used in B5. This insight started
me reading Tolkien and other authors while I continue
to enjoy the best television program ever produced.
(Six months ago, I wrote my local TV station to the
effect that Shogun was a good miniseries but B5 was
much better).
-Mike Grenier
mgre...@eag.unisysgsg.com
Steven Standley
that it was great having the creator/producer actually
online for questions and clarification as well as just
plain interaction. As usual in this society we call a
democracy the minority shout with the loudest voices
and therefore are oft the ones catered to. It is
alas a great shame that the few can control what the
many want but so it has to be.
You will be sorely missed by the many who liked your
comments and interaction with the viewers JMS.
May all your other goals be as well recieved and
liked as the B5 series.
Later, Steven
Bernard HP Gilroy
I have to say, I am profoundly disappointed. I don't think
I'm one of the alleged "Joe worshippers", but I feel we are losing a
great and unprecedented opportunity here. One reason B5 is (was?)
different from That Other Show had to do with the fan-ness of its
creator, with the easy accessibility, and the sense of community. All
of that is dead -- I suppose it's been dying for a while now -- and
it's a shame.
I can't say I understand the psychology of what went on here.
Despite what JMS says, I'm not sure we had more than the usual run of
self-aggrandizing, argumentarily-deaf idiots that eventually inhabit
any unmoderated Usenet group. The main difference is, here they had a
target. The flame wars usually degenerate into a background hiss of
"did not! did too!" schoolground cries -- annoying but not really
involving any given person very often. But JMS was a lightning rod
that drew fire from a handful on everything, confident that there was
be others rushing to his defense.
He's got one thing right: The only way to have handled this
well would have been to ignore the flamers. They probably _would_
have gone away. But we get too many new people too often to make sure
everyone understands that, and so the threads go on forever and our
killfiles grew to include the known Universe. Now, things are likely
to quiet down to the usual roar of Usenet flamewars (but no worse)
... but it's going to be a _lot_ less interesting.
For myself, it's a great sadness. I've really enjoyed getting
an insider's view of how TV shows work. My step-sister works for
one of UPN's vice presidents, and over last Christmas I had a long,
fun talk about the realities of sci fi programming. I could hold my
own because I had picked up a working knowledge just from the board.
I guess that ends.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a treatise or
anything. I just wanted to, figuratively, doff my hat and mark the
passing of a great and noble experiment in the electronic community.
I think JMS is right: it'll be a long time before anyone else in a
comparable position wanders onto the unmoderated groups...
In sadness.
--Bernard HP Gilroy
Bernard HP Gilroy -- gil...@leland.stanford.edu -- <b|Hp|g>
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~gilroy
"To be successful as a human being and an American citizen, is the
goal that the public schools of the country has set for their
pupils..." -- John Dewey, _The Schools of Tomorrow_, p. 177
Charles Hoffman
> I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
> What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
> rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
> who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
> in general, and me in particular.
>
> way, but that doesn't seem likely. You cannot know how your
> words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
> not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show. It's
> been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
> See you on the flip side.
>
> With great affection,
>
> J. Michael Straczynski
Good move. Don't let the bastards win.
Congratulations on a great show, one of two that I never miss. You have
succeeded where few have even come close. I care about the characters,
their universe, and what is comming upon them.
Now, which way is it to rastb5-info...
Charles Hoffman
You are not judged by how much you love,
but by how much you are loved by others. -- G. P. Oz
D. E. Bath
JMS's posts were the main reason I even read this group. I'm gone too.
---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bath ba...@aud.alcatel.com
Lightwave Development
Alcatel Network Systems, Inc. Richardson, TX
Of course these are my opinions! Alcatel Network Systems wouldn't want them.
James Rudd
strac...@genie.geis.com wrote:
JMS,
Obviously many people are going to say sorry to see you leave. I know I
will be, but I had to mention a moment of fame for you. I was watching
X-files last week and Fox said to Scully as their boss walked in,
Look, a beaon in the night.
You seem to have at least some fans on the X-files as well. Hope to see
you on AOL.
Been around for 2.5 years, so I will miss your clues, no matter how
Koch-like they were.
James
Tom Hall
says...
>I am very sorry to see you go, JMS. Your posts were often the only ones
>I bothered reading. I cannot justify getting AOL or Genie, and I dumped
>Compuserve some time ago. Admittedly UseNet is far more hostile, but
>sometimes it is a great advantage.
Joe's posts _were_ the only ones I bothered reading, but even obliquely I learned
enough about those assholes Fuller & Thaxton to know that their type is the lowest of
the low..
Which is why _I'm_ outta here too..........
Tom
Elaine Tindill-Rohr
Before you get all the way out of here, let me take the time to
surface and say thank you. I've been lurking on r.a.s.t.b5 since
the middle of the 2nd season here in the usa, and haven't had too
much time, and not much to offer to the conversations. But I have
sincerely enjoyed the postings you have made. You have taken a
great deal of your time to offer us your point of view, and given
those of us with no idea of the scope of a tv series some very
informative things. Thanks for sharing your time and talent and
energy with us, even those of us who don't or can't take the
time to post frequently.
Good luck with your series. Both my husband and I want to be able
to see all five years.
Sincerely,
Elaine Tindill-Rohr
ist...@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu or ist...@uabdpo.bitnet
Neil Scott Nadelman
: I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
: What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
: rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
: who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
: in general, and me in particular.
: And just so they cannot weasel their way out of it later, cannot
: say "well, it wasn't me, it was just the climate, it was the
: fault of those guys over there...look, a comet...." I point the
: Thaxton, with a couple of other accomplices not worthy of comment.
I wonder what sort of spin the ghostly trio above will put on
this. They'll probably declare victory and head over to try and do
their dirty work on the other areas. I say we start a new group,
just for them. They can call it rastb5.let's.kick.jms and slag off about
him all day long.
: See you on the flip side.
: With great affection,
: J. Michael Straczynski
--
'Twas fun, Mr. Straczynski. I hope my ISP gets the new group
when it starts up. If this'll let you get a little sleep at night or
make that certain script that much better, I can't say I'm sorry to
see you go. Hell, maybe TD&F will finally declare victory and pull out.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman...@user1.channel1.com| The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
I fear nothing in life because | And I... I, Antonius Block...
I've already survived Theta-G! | Am playing chess with Death.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Jimbo
>JMS's posts were the main reason I even read this group. I'm gone too.
Agreed, I typically do an author search for Straczinski and just skim the
headers of the other posts.
--
Jim Lawson law...@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~lawson/jimbo.html
"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
- THEODORE ROOSEVELT
Jimbo
>So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
>rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month. To Ron
>and the Rangers...stop sending me the list at that time.
You'll be missed !
I look forward to your return in the info newsgroup.
Thanks for all your posts here.
Jim
--
Jim Lawson law...@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~lawson/jimbo.html
If you believe what you read, the sky is thick with aliens who are designing
pyramids, disemboweling livestock, impregnating rural people and generally
having a good time at our expense.
-Scott Adams
J.M.Egolf
after JMS's announcement.
"Forgiveness is a difficult thing, isn't it?"
--
******************** ***************
J.M. ("Jamie") Egolf jeg...@xnet.com
<*> "We find meaning where we can." <*>
scp...@ibm.net
I'm sorry to see you have to take this step. We will miss you.
But, I hope to see yon rastb5-info some day. Take care.
Sue
********************************
"I am never wrong; I'm just not always right."
new sig. here
********************************
Paul Skaggs
Thanks for giving us fans a peek into what it takes to get and keep a show on
the air, for letting us in on your plans for upcoming episodes, for listening
and answering our many many questions, (even when we didn't understand the
answers), for not pulling any punches, for keeping your show as your show,
for giving up part of your life to share time with us, for doing rastb5 as long
as you did, for bringing a little light into a dark TV lineup. I could keep
going on put this post would turn into a small book, so let me wrap up by
stating once more
THANK YOU JMS FOR BEING YOU
Sorry to see you leave, but I fully understand why.
Paul (Already going into JMS post withdrawal) Skaggs
ps, Well guess I'm going to have to break down and get AOL now.
Adam Roach
Ditto. Thanks, Ford and Thaxton. Thanks a lot.
--
Adam Roach -- adam....@exu.ericsson.se -- Standard Disclaimers, etc.
Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down
Laura Jane Swanson
Well, I certainly don't expect you to reconsider - I'm amazed
you've been as patient as you have! Thanks for sticking it out so long,
it's really made lots of people happy (I can speak for myself, and
a few others who tend to read over my shoulder!).
I can't say it as well as most of the people here, but thanks!
Laura Jane
rom...@copland.udel.edu
(Going to go sniffle awhile.)
MICHAEL A. FATONE
>So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
>rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month. To Ron
>and the Rangers...stop sending me the list at that time.
Good bye and thanks for visiting with us. I look forward to "hearing
from you" through the show.
Mike
The above does not represent the opinion or policy of the USAF or Dept of
Defense. (In case you hadn't guessed.)
Edward H. Vickers
>Subject: jms resigns rastb5
>Date: 27 Nov 1995 01:09:28 -0500
>I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
>What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
>rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
>who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
>in general, and me in particular.
[SNIP]
>See you on the flip side.
> With great affection,
> J. Michael Straczynski
I have lurked here for some time, but lately I have wondered if it was worth
it. This certainly helps me to decide to cease following this
group. Mr. Straczynski, I have enjoyed the effort you have put forth to
produce an entertaining and though provoking show. I have also appreciated
the effort you have put forth toward the fans of your effort. I will continue
to watch and enjoy Babylon 5. I regret that events made your decision
necessary.
Ed Vickers
A Kuhl
I can tell that Joe is resolute in his decision, and I'm sure that others
on this group will express their regret more eloquently than I can mine.
So I will be brief:
Aw hell...
JMS, you will be greatly missed.
Andy
(relurk)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Kuhl | Dead wildflowers and a bottle of
4A Electrical Engineering (Ohm Brew) | vodka on the kitchen table...
University of Waterloo |
Vivienne Oregan
Thank you for what you've brought to this newsgroup group and hope that
when the moderated B5info group is up and running you'll be able to
participate in that forum and may see you there.
Vivienne
Howard S Shubs
>Frankly, I'm not sure that this is the best solution. Without the
>presense of JMS, I think things can actually get WORSE, as such claims
>can now go unchecked.
Considering JMS's postings were just about all I read here, I wasn't aware
of the crap going on. I'll be dropping this newsgroup when JMS leaves,
too.
--
Howard S Shubs hsh...@bix.com Which lizard is the "right" one?
The Denim Adept hsh...@ultranet.com "What?" -- Arthur Dent
Paul Harper
[bye]
It is a sad reflection on certain societies that loud-mouthed
dickless morons like Fuller, Ford and others can get away with
what they do.
Instead of reasoned arguement, they choose insult and innuendo.
Instead of civility, they choose abuse and instead of tolerance
they demonstrate rabid hatred.
I for one am glad to be several thousand miles away from the
likes of them.
Paul.
-- ("at work" account)
--
-- From "Twinkle Butt"
-- A .sig's all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality.
-- Registered no. 157 at Wolf 359 '96
-- and no. 2 at Babblings 3
Tom Maynard
>See you on the flip side.
>
> With great affection,
>
> J. Michael Straczynski
JMS,
I want to thank you for your involvement with this group. The sacrifice
of time and your commitment to the folks who love your show has been a
rare treasure.
And although B5 is an incredible work in itself, your comments and
answers to our questions have added a depth to the show that I have never
experienced with any other form of entertainment.
Although I have been mostly a lurker here downbelow, I feel like we are
losing a good friend. Be well, and I hope I'll be able to listen to you
again. Meanwhile, your voice will speak to us from your work.
Tom Maynard
(thomas....@marcam.com)
Karen Lee
I knew something was wrong yesterday.
To those who can afford CIS, Genie, AOL etc... Please, Please continue
to forward JMS' posts.
Karen
ca...@delphi.com
>I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
>What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
>rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
>who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
>in general, and me in particular.
one of the things I've looked foward to has
been reading your posts. I understand why
you've made the decision you have, but I find
it sad that as is so typical in society today,
a few people can control what happens to
everyone else.
Thank you for a great show.
cathy
Carole & Pat Cronan
>So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
>rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month. To Ron
>and the Rangers...stop sending me the list at that time.
>
going to the group on alt.tv.babylon5. It is a little smaller, but seems
relatively well behaved!
>Because the simple reality is that once I'm gone, the prime lure for
>those who've turned this place into a constant flame zone for the
>last year will have left. And in time, so will they. It's sad
>when a handful of people can take something that is of value to
>thousands, potentially tens of thousands, of users worldwide, and
>chew away at it until there's nothing left, simply because of their
>own twisted obsession.
>
Also, it will take away the prime lure of the real fan like
myself..... I just can't stay in an echo where a few can destroy the
pleasure of the many...
>I cannot go to bed, or get up in the morning, furious over the
>latest offense committed here by the tyrannical few; I've lost
>endless hours sitting here angry over the falsehoods and the
>smears and the innuendo. I can't afford to do that anymore.
>
And you shouldn't have to.....
>And just so they cannot weasel their way out of it later, cannot
>say "well, it wasn't me, it was just the climate, it was the
>fault of those guys over there...look, a comet...." I point the
>finger squarely at the Theron Fuller, Deborah Fuller, and Ford
>Thaxton, with a couple of other accomplices not worthy of comment.
>I hope you enjoy seeing your names in a post by me, folks, since
>that's what seems to excite you, because this particular message
>is likely to be the last. You've finally succeeded in driving
>me off rastb5, which was clearly your intent from the start.
>
We are all responsible for our own actions, one should never make
excuses...
>People ask why more producers don't come on-line. This is the
>reason. Because there are some people out there who are obsessed
>with anyone who has even the smallest celebrity (and there ain't
>much smaller celebrity than being a producer); people who feel it
>is their god-given obligation to tear down the other person, and
>to make sure that there cannot *possibly* be anyone in their
>universe more important than they themselves. They do not sow,
>neither do they reap; they only shred and tear and abuse.
>
NO ONE has the right to tear down another person....
JMS, I have enjoyed our short discourse together, would you mind If
I save your email address? I would not want to disturb you with your hectic
life, but I would like to know that I could ask you a question every now and
then?????? Thank you again for the wonderful show..... I really enjoyed
Walk in Gethsemane last night..... One of your better episodes.....
Carole
Car...@hargray.com
Blue Fenix of the Unknown BBS
>Same here. I read the news in order to get information, and JMS's post
>were providing that in abundance (and being fun reading to boot). I have
>no further reason to read this group, so I'm outta here at the end of
the
>month.
I won't go that far, but losing JMS certainly takes a lot of the fun out
of this board. Between that and The Return of the Two-Month Rerun Hell, I
expect I'll be here a lot less. Rec.arts.sf.written is lovely this time
of year.
Chris K
posts and then skimmed the rest) who's probably going to leave now.
In the midst of all this we shouldn't forget that there have been other
good info, discussion, ideas, resources, etc. about B5. What made
rastB5 special was that it felt like things said here made a
difference. It was the difference between watching a movie and
watching a play; when you clapped at the end, some of the people in
the play hear you.
Thanks for your time here, JMS. Be seeing you.
Chris
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---RAST-B5 was our last, best hope for intelligent fandom. It failed.---
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurt Reisler
Paul Harper <pa...@icihqgis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>strac...@genie.geis.com said :
>
>[bye]
>
>It is a sad reflection on certain societies that loud-mouthed
>dickless morons like Fuller, Ford and others can get away with
>what they do.
>
>Instead of reasoned arguement, they choose insult and innuendo.
>Instead of civility, they choose abuse and instead of tolerance
>they demonstrate rabid hatred.
>
>I for one am glad to be several thousand miles away from the
>likes of them.
>
Unfortunately, you are still a victem of their behavier. JMS's latest
episode speaks of "the difficulty of forgiving". I am not sure I can.
--
Kurt Reisler (UNIX SIG Chair, DECUS US Chapter)
Captain, UNISIG International Luge Team
Only a guest at k...@umbc.edu
<*> Ignore the craniorectally inverted <*>
Jacques Kitsch
Aw man, now who's gonna answer my silly, albeit seriouly intentioned,
questions about the show? Well, I've still got 2 days...
Okay, okay. I know it's more serious than that. From what I
learned about "the industry" the short while I worked as a
programmer in H'wood, Mr. S. probably deals with enough
undesirables during his day job, so I can't blame him for
not wanting to endure ridicule here.
Somebody show me the silver lining in this one?
Daniel
--
Visit me on the World Wide Web, now with *NEW IMPROVED* ignoreable links:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~margolis/ <- free with my $26K/year USC tuition!
Jon S Green
> Thank you for making a programme with unsurpassed vision in television SF.
> Thank you for being here, soliciting opinion, listening to it and responding.
> Thank you for having the tolerance to put up with the morons for this long.
For everyone else, a thought. Thaxton and the Fullers have email addresses.
Thaxton and the Fullers have internet providers. For what they've done for
this group and the B5 fan community in general, I would have thought that a
strongly-worded complaint to their providers would not be out of order. A
copy of salient quotes from JMS's message would not go amiss. For all the
rights that freedom of speech confers there are responsibilities which the
Unholy Trinity have clearly failed to appreciate. Maybe their service
providers will think likewise.
Nathan J. Mehl
strac...@genie.geis.com writes:
>See you on the flip side.
And you too, sir. It's been a pleasure.
--
"The life of a sysadmin is always intense!"
If you think I speak for my employer, they'll be happy to correct you.
Nathan J. Mehl -- BBN Planet System Operations -- nat...@bbnplanet.com
<A HREF="http://web.near.net/~nmehl">homepagesque</A>
Ken J. Papai
>: I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
>: What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
>: rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
> [SNIP]
>: See you on the flip side.
>: J. Michael Straczynski
>Good bye sir.
>Well, people pat yourselves on the back for this one.
>You got what you wanted. Now you have no reason to be
>here.
>Once again the few destroy the entertainment of the
>many.........such as is a free country.
And may the Fullers and Thaxtons of the world
always watch your back. You never know who is
behind you and YOU WILL NEVER get your
family name/honor back ever.
Theron & Ford -- in ALL THE YEARS I've been on the Net I have NEVER
seen two bigger KOOKIER INSANE NEUROTIC Compulsive liars
and spreaders of innuendo and deceit ever. It would have
to be super embarrassing for someone like Debbie Fuller, who sometimes can
say intelligent things but have a "father" like the idiotic and
megalamaniacal Theron Fuller and his "cousin" Ford Thaxton.
--
<*> Ken Papai, Marin County, Calif.
<*> kpa...@rahul.net Geek code: 5+++
<*> S.F. Bay Area Beer Lover charter member: ba-...@eff.org
Brian 'Doc' O'Neill
Frankly, I'm not sure that this is the best solution. Without the
presense of JMS, I think things can actually get WORSE, as such claims
can now go unchecked.
I am very sorry to see you go, JMS. Your posts were often the only ones
I bothered reading. I cannot justify getting AOL or Genie, and I dumped
Compuserve some time ago. Admittedly UseNet is far more hostile, but
sometimes it is a great advantage.
Maybe there is some way we can get JMS to stay on the Internet, in
a more moderated environment, instead of a UseNet newsgroup. Maybe
something Web-based? I can host it...hell, I'll WRITE the software...
Does GEnie do World Wide Web yet?
--
======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Director of Computing, Computer Science
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
one...@cs.uml.edu (508) 934-3645
"Nothing's the same anymore." - Sinclair, Babylon 5, _Chrysalis_ <*>
CL...@chip.itron.com
I have never posted to the newsgroup, and only recently have been
reading it. In light of the sample of postings I've read, I'm
surprised you've stayed as long as you apparently have. I agree with
you that the level of maturity for some people is phenomenaly low. I
have simply tried to avoid them altogether. I realize in your
position it isn't something you can easily do.
This is just a simple note of support and thanks.
The support part is that I will continue read your comments and
answers to questions about the show and enjoy them. It is a unique
opportunity to converse with the creator of a show I enjoy (even
though until now I haven't taken that opportunity).
The thanks are for producing a wonderful show. I have read and
watched a lot of science fiction over the last 25 years. What you've
done with Babylon 5 is, in my opinion, excellent! Your attention to
detail, and vigorous protection of the show is obvious in the
finished product. There's no such thing as a perfect show, and there
are small things now and then that bother me. But then again, that's
not bad either - it makes me think. I will continue to watch Babylon
5 and support its continued airing over my local station (KHQ-6,
Spokane, WA).
Thanks for taking the time to participate in this medium of comment
and discussion and for reading this note.
A B5 fan,
Tom
Tom....@itron.com
Spokane, Washington
Julian P. Graham
I'm sure that we are all very saddened at Joe's decision to leave
the group. I hope that he will reconsider, and I'm sure he will
receive many pleas from people here to do so.
If he has made up his mind to go, I'd like to suggest a possible way
in which he could maintain his input to the group.
[snip]
> I will continue to be present on CIS, Genie, AOL and a few other
> places, which have more than their share of critical commentaries,
> but are moderated to prevent this kind of abusive behavior. When
> the rastb5-info group is open, I will post to that area, and take
> questions via that forum. But I will no longer post to, or read
> the main rastb5 area any longer. I simply can't afford the
> heartache anymore.
[snip]
> With the obvious exceptions, I will miss you greatly. As stated
> above, I'll be here through the end of the month, just to finish
> clearing out stuff, and ease this transition, though probably in
> somewhat reduced capacity. I hope to see many of you via the new
> info group. Though the discussion will not be quite so free
> wheeling as it is here, because of the moderated structure there,
> it will be good to look upon your faces (well, your pixels) in
> the months to come there.
[snip]
Unless the charter for the rastb5.info group is altered, I don't see
how JMS can take questions there. I don't know how the group's
moderator would feel about the situation. He may be quite happy to
expand the scope of the group, but he may feel that the increased traffic
that would almost certainly be involved, would be too onerous. If the
latter is the case, may I suggest the following possible solution.
A moderated rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.questions group could be created.
Questions for JMS could be submitted to this group and, if they had not
previously been asked, the moderator would post them. Obviously the
moderator would have to be someone who had a good knowledge of the
questions that had been previously asked. (I can think of someone who
would fit this role perfectly, but I'll not name him here.) All posts
in this new group would be crossposted to the main group, so from a
rastb5 point of view, nothing would appear to have changed. However,
nothing from the main group would be visible to JMS. Only those posts
in the rastb5.questions group.
As I see it, such a group would have the following benefits.
* JMS would only have to answer any question once.
* Traffic would be reduced. At present many of us post to ATTN JMS:
threads with effectively the same answer. JMS then adds his own
answer. In the new scheme there would be one question and one JMS
response.
Obviously, I've only just come up with this idea since reading Joe's
post, so comments and/or criticisms are welcome. (Flames are not.)
As I said at the beginning of this post, I hope JMS will reconsider
his decision, and make any such plans unnecessary.
Regards
--
** Julian P. Graham **************************************************
* Warrington, England. "You have....forgotten something." *
* Ambassador Kosh, Babylon 5 *
** jpgr...@starfury.demon.co.uk *************************************
Kirby Krueger
Robert Holland <rhol...@triton.mayfield.hp.com> wrote:
>>strac...@genie.geis.com said :
>>
>>[bye]
>>
>>
>>Instead of reasoned arguement, they choose insult and innuendo.
>>Instead of civility, they choose abuse and instead of tolerance
>>they demonstrate rabid hatred.
>>
>
>Now ask yourself, "just who is getting away with what?"
>
>--RH
This just typifies something that is sadly lacking, particularly on the net,
and much more in the past few years than previously. I don't think jms even
gets treated much differently than the rest of us, he just gets it more
frequently.
It seems some people have no concept of the virtue of being generous-minded.
Yes, you could assume that Michael O'Hare left because of nefarious reasons,
and jms is lying. Yes, you could assume he's manufacture ratings to try
and make his detractors look foolish. However, you could also assume that
jms is an honest person who is doing us an unheard of favor by interacting
with us on a very personal level. The generous-minded person assumes that
the other person is doing what he is doing for good reasons, and means well.
Most of the attacks on jms I've seen come from the angle of making assumptions
that could possibly be true, and acting as though they were. This is a
rediculous and immoral way to treat people.
I've been reading this group and alt.tv.babylon-5 since before the pilot
aired. jms has never been anything but polite and friendly to those that
treat him as such. He only has 'flamed' when being pushed repeatedly and
viciously. You can blame him for losing his temper at times, I suppose,
but he shouldn't have to put up with constant insults and false accusations.
If this is the way that famous people are treated, may I die in a gutter,
unknown and uncared for.
Thank you, jms. You have greatly enhanced my interest and enjoyment of the
show, and I consider you a good man, that I would like to meet someday. You
have integrity, more than a fair share of self-restraint, wit, and talent.
Your detractors seem to have these qualities in very low amounts. I have no
idea why they feel a need to bring you down, and to make someone else's life
less than maximally pleasant. However, in the long run, if Ford and the
Fuller's are remembered at all, it will be with disdain for their pettiness.
jms will be remembered as a fan's creator, and will always have a place
among people that I and most of us here respect and admire.
Thank you for giving all that you could. That's all anyone should ever ask.
--
Kirby Krueger, kir...@peak.org
<*> "Most .sigs this small can't open their own jump gate."
SElli...@aol.com
just read your latest post to rastb5 and am NOT surprised, and yet, I am
amazed. I, for one, have thoroughly enjoyed reading your comments from
viewers and fans and will miss them. Unfortunately there are an incredible
number of people out there who are bitter, unpleasant, insensitive and just
downright infantile and have nothing better to do than do what they've
(finally) done to you. What gives? I don't understand. Is that ALL they
have to do in their lives? They don't have anything ELSE? I am 52, LOVE
science fiction, and look forward to B5 every week. I was a kid in the 50's
and my mother dragged me to the local movie theatre on Saturdays to watch all
those great b&w (& color) movies they made back then. Classics like
Forbidden Planet, This Island Earth, and many more. I've been reading scifi
since I learned how to read and as far as TV goes, there is presently NOTHING
else on television today that compares with Babylon 5. I tell people about
the show. I have a kid-brother who's 39 and I turned him on to the show a
couple of months ago and now HE'S hooked. I can't begin to tell you what your
show does for me, as a science fiction fan. I have watched each episode from
the 1st, 2nd and part of the third season at LEAST 4 or 5 times (I watched
2001 22 times in a row once) and get something out of it everytime. The EFX
are fantastic and I've already noticed an improvement in this season; it
seems to be sharper and clearer, expecially when you zoom in on the station.
EXCELLENT!! Anyway, I'm gonna go now, (where do you get time to do
everything?) once again, I'm sorry to hear what has happened. I have only
seen one of those posts (from Thaxton, I think) and it was just the tip of
the iceberg. Fortunately I have NOT seen any of the others. And you're
right, it probably won't stop. Thanks for listening to me. It would be
great to hear from you even if it's just a "HI" and I know that YOU aren't
just a figment of MY imagination!!! Steve R (selli...@aol.com) --> my AOL
e-mail address. Thanks again for a GREAT show!!!
John Bedard
You gotta do whatchya gotta do, and you know that better than anyone else.
But, I'm not upset; The Spam Kings (tm) piss me off, too.
See ya on CIS!
John
--
Reality-ometer
[E\.....F]
Uh oh...
NEXT...@aol.com
show; finally people are writing television for viewers with an IQ greater
than Gump.
Thank you for your time and thoughtfulness in creating your vision. It is
widely appreciated!
We wait on the edge of our seats for Wednesday evenings!!
Cheryl....@mvs.udel.edu
newsreader. Is it true? I gather there was more to jms' message than Frank
quoted but the university's newsreader is giving me about one message in five
now-a-days. If anyone has the complete message from jms, or knows what
happened, please e-mail me!
Sherry
GOOD SF IS NOT A MALFUNCTION.
NUMBER 'FIVE' IS ALIVE!
Totoro
and Ford Thaxton must die. They are evil people whose permanent removal
would be of benefit to all. In pusuit of that goal, I recommend that
anyone who is in a position to do so, kill them. Also, that if
anyone is in a position to know their home addresses' post them,
so that if someone else is in a position to kill them may do so.
Lastly, until they are killed, they should be mercillesly harrassed
and driven from society, in the hope that they will eventually
chose to do the right thing and kill themselves.
Totoro.
--
You know how to get eternal high, in the center of the lightning speed waltz.
Ore wa kaze no tani no Totoro. JAILED, and you thought Nixon was bad.
IPPA#: 6471 A BIG Totoro was Team Lipservice Crew Motto:
TIP#: 42 here with you! tot...@nmia.com "They Suck, We Rule"
Alta Brewer
writes:
>I will continue to be present on CIS, Genie, AOL and a few other
>places, which have more than their share of critical commentaries,
>but are moderated to prevent this kind of abusive behavior. When
>the rastb5-info group is open, I will post to that area, and take
>questions via that forum. But I will no longer post to, or read
>the main rastb5 area any longer. I simply can't afford the
>heartache anymore.
>
>The experiment in interaction between viewers and the makers of
>B5 will continue; they just will continue in other places.
I don't know how to put into words the sadness I feel after reading
Joe's post. Joe's posts are the main reason I read rastb5. It's been
wonderful being able to interact with B5's producer. And now because of
a few people, we're going to lose that interaction. We'll still get to
talk to him on the info group, but it just won't be the same.
I don't know if it's too late to find another solution to Joe leaving
this forum, but I can think of a couple possible courses of action.
This is all assuming that Joe is amenable to finding a way to stay here.
His post sounds pretty final to me. And I certainly don't blame him for
getting fed up--I haven't read posts by certain people for months now
because they infuriate me and I'm not even the person they are
attacking.
I would hate to lose JMS from rastb5 since his comments on non-Attn JMS
threads is often a wonderful bonus. Plus, if he just fields questions
on the info group then he's lost out since he won't be getting the
"sense of the room" he enjoys.
At the risk of opening an old can of worms, maybe it's finally time to
moderate rastb5. We didn't need to go to moderation over the story idea
issue because of the Rangers, but maybe we should consider it again as a
way to moderate abusive posts. Does anyone know how CIS, Genie, or AOL
handle their moderation in this regard? And would it be possible on
Usenet?
Another possibility is that the Rangers eliminate the abusive posts from
JMS's feed the way they do story ideas. (Would that be possible, Ron?)
That way Joe could continue as part of the group, but not be harassed
by abusive posts.
Alta Brewer and Alan Thiesen
casp...@ix.netcom.com
strac...@genie.geis.com writes:
>
>I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
>What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
>rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
>in general, and me in particular.
>Again, my apologies. I wish this could be handled in some other
>way, but that doesn't seem likely. You cannot know how your
>words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
>not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show. It's
>been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
>See you on the flip side.
>
> With great affection,
>
> J. Michael Straczynski
Dear JMS, first of all I would like to thank you for helping me with an
IRC situation I had posted and mailed you about. Thanks to you I was
able to get the truth about someone claiming to be part of the show who
wasn't and isn't. In this situation that you are in, though, seems
qutie parralel(sp?) to the one I was in. I know you'll get many
responses to your leaving the newsgroup and I hope you do read this
because I think it's improtant I return the favor you did for me.
When I confronted the channel operator of the facts that were
brought to you about this IRC situation he made it clear that he felt I
needed more proof before we could act on it(your word wasn't good
enought for him due to the fact that he felt you didn't get an accurate
enought description, I don't know since I'm not the one who gave to
you), and cause of this I told everyone I was leaving because I could
not accept being in a place where I felt a proven liar was allowed. So
I left, and in doing so created a personal problem for myself. It had
dawned on me the next day that IRC was so integratded into my routine
that I felt bad not to go on, but I stayed off cause i felt I was
right. Then 2 things happened which caused me to look at it from
another light.
One was something my brother said to me and I quote, "If he's the
liar why are you the one off of IRC?" With that I started thinking but
still I felt not being around would be best because of the fact it went
against all I am to be around a place where a liar is accepted.
Then the second thing happened... I saw A Day In The Strife.(I know
you'l like this.)
When I watched it I was amazed at how closely the G' Kar storyline
began to mirror how I felt. He was (as I feel you are) so caught up in
doing the right thing that he didn't stop to think of doing the smart
thing. Now I'm no one to tell you wether or not your doing the right
thing or the smart thing but I'd like to explain my feelings on this
situation to you. A lot of B5 support comes from the internet, a lot
more than other shows get. This, this newsgroup, is * the * only
public forum, that all can get where they can meet you and pose
questions to you.
To quote one of your own cahracters, "We cannot let you leave, you
are valued and needed here." Without a doubt r.a.s.t.b5 will go on
without you but it will never be the same without you. There are so
many of us here that it's the only newsgroup I know of that fills up so
quickly. Don't the good guys here outnumber the bad? Sure there
maybe, and please pardon this, assholes all over this group but they're
everywhere in life and the one thing about them is that they make us
stronger. They make us who we are and from them we actually do get to
enjoy the good things a little more because of them. I'm not saying
you should take it but if you leave now they'll never leave and they
will say they forced you out. And the problem there is that they will
be right. I'm no friend of theirs and I don't post often but when I do
it's only to you or to answer questions and right now I'd hate to
answer why you left.
If for no other reason stay simply to spite them. But the one
reason I can offer to stay, the one I like, is because we the fans need
you and you need us. You've given us something wonderful here and we
show our appreciation through this kind of following, and if I remember
correctly you created this newsgroup for us so we could pose questions.
To lose you here, now, while the goings are good and the show is
starting to catch on is, well, unfortunate. You started us on a roller
coaster ride some time ago, don't leave us hanging now, please... stay.
For yourself as well as for us please work with us through these times
and do what I feel, is the smart thing. There are a lot of people here
on the Net who know of you and admire you. your the reason this group
is frequented and I feel if you leave some fans will fell cheated. Now
to feel that way is neither wrong nor right but it's simply how they
will feel and no one can fualt them for that.
If you feel still you have to leave and that you have no other
choice then do what you must, but don't let a few jerks get to you like
this if nothing else, emplore or employ us(not as a real job just a
figure of speach), the fans, to do something about these people and I
assure you we will. We don't want to see you go and would much rather
see some of them go.
I can only say please don't leave us now, not after all you and we
have gone through to get this far, this is the one place all have
access to and although that invites the unwanted it also grabs at the
curious ones, the ones who are unsure but are willing to give it a go
to see what all the hype is about.
Again I quot, "We cannot let you leave, you are valued and needed
here." Take the advice of one of your own characters we need you as
much as you need us. We stand with you and we hope you'll stand with
us.
Brian S.
Goodman
think that the latest season of B5 is the best yet. I've always
enjoyed the show and taped them all, but the writing and performances
seem a little better this season, in ways I can't neccesarily put my
fingers on. I've also noticed that some acquaintances of mine, who
were casually tuning in to B5, sudddenly became *extremely* interested
in the show after the third season started, and suddenly I was loaning
out a lot of tapes of back episodes.
I'm sorry that you had the hassles that you did here at r.a.s.t.b5
and don't blame you for getting ticked off at times. As busy as you
are, though, I'm grateful that you were here as long as you were.
Others will continue to archive your posts from other online services,
so we'll still get to hear from you that way.
I myself have occasionally criticized the show here, but I want you
to know that I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, the show,
and all the people who put it together, and if any post of mine didn't
make that clear, I sincerely apologize. I wish the entire B5 team the
best of luck. I believe this is going to be a very good year for
Babylon 5.
____________________________________________________
Mister Goodman You must do what you
Mr....@ix.netcom.com feel is right, of course.
Free Agent rocks! -Obi Wan Kenobi
Capt. Sheridan
: Damn!!!
I could use a few words stronger than that...
: JMS's posts were the main reason I even read this group. I'm gone too.
You are not the only one. I hope that those assholes (who I am not going
to mention) are satisfied with what they have done.
Joe, I know I am not the only one to say this, but I will miss you on here
as much as anyone here.
--
<*><*><*><*><*><*>Greg Boug (s940...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au)<*><*><*><*><*><*>
WWW: http://yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au/~s9407307/
Babylon 5 quote for the day:
"Now Jack didn't admit anything, but he did say that the Homeguard wasn't
behind President Santiago's assassination. But what if it was the Psi
Corps? What if they wanted someone in office who was sympathetic to the
Corps? Right before Earth Force 1 exploded, the Vice-President got off at
Mars, saying he had the flu. Pretty convenient, isn't it?"
-- Garibaldi, "Revelations"
Bard Lite
--
- /| <*> <*> <*> <*> <*> | michael may == mm...@mcd.intel.com
\`O.o' Just Say `NO' to Rugs | Disclaimer: HEY! That's MY disc!
={___}= - the American Hardwood | I speak only for myself and the
` U ' Floor Association | the large Wombat in the corner.
Robert A. Hayden
It's a shame that Joe has to go. We'll all miss him greatly and miss the
insights into the show.
However, I have a thought that might work. Is there a B5 mailing list
that he CAN participate in? We simply design the charter to not allow
petty flamage (and posting of stories :-) and give the boot to anyone
that violates the charter.
I know that the Space:AaB mailing list is going very strong and that
there are many representatives from the show (actors, producers, effect
people, etc) that are on it.
I'll even look into seeing if I can set up the list if there is interest.
In the meantime, we'll miss you, Joe. But no matter what, don't stop
making good stories.
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R+++>$ tv+ b+ DI+++ D+++ G+++++>$ e++$>++++ h r-- y+**
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Robert Holland
your move to have Ford's AOL account cancelled.
It's not as if you are quitting the entire online community, is it?
After all, you still post to Genie and Compuserve and AOL and rastb5.info.
Time is valuable. I'd prefer the intervention of a moderator
in any case--and why not? You don't need to weed through the chaff to
get to the kernels of wheat in a moderated group. The sheer volume of
messages in rastb5 would inundate most persons--I'm surprised you
kept up this long. I bet Babylon 5's quality would increase measurably
if you were to spend your online time editing your scripts. You need
more sleep and you need to protect your health. Hell, spend your online
time with your wife--I'm sure she would appreciate it and you could
benefit, too. Try it: go offline completely for 8 weeks while we watch
reruns and you write/produce the remainder of season 3. (Don't forget to
work in the great war!)
I'm sure rastb5 will manage without you. Rastb5 will
continue to be the free-for-all B5 discussion group it has always been,
only with fewer direct requests for your time. And if you ever decide to
dive into an unrestricted forum where your tv show gets discussed right
down to the nub, then you can pop back in. But you should be
sure to warn us--we might start posting story ideas here.
I find it amazing that you chose to use the good will you have built up
in this newsgroup to have one last go at three individuals who post here.
I expected more class and candor from a professional writer, especially
one who has been online for many years. This final action of yours
seems so full of spite, and illogical. It is as if you take analysis
of your show and business dealings personally. If your psyche is truly so
tender, why did you wade in here in the first place? I know--to get a
sense of the room.
Well, this room has doors open to everyone with no charge for admission,
and no doorman. Plenty of judges and juries, but no bailiff. If you
get bored with moderated kudos, drop back in for a quick tussle.
--RH
Paul Harper
>If you or anyone reading this message participated in any
>rastb5 flamefest this year, you must acknowledge your contribution
>to JMS deciding to leave. I had my words with the man on
>occasion. He did not like my view of his tv show or the way he
>conducts business, but he was quick with an insult and showed
>a knack for firey missives. To suddenly begin turning the other
>cheek is out of character for his online persona.
The only flame-fest I've taken part in has not been in rastb5,
but in the UK group when Fuller started whinging on about something
or other.
I can hold my hand on heart and say with all honesty that I had nothing
whatsoever to do with his decision to quit this group. Can you say the
same ?
>JMS's sudden departure has caught the Rangers off-guard. Seems if JMS
>had expressed any displeasure with their service they would have
>bent over backward to satisfy him. They failed and he failed
>to work with them. Too bad for all of us, but this is how JMS
>chose to act.
The Rangers did a good job. Unfortunately it's also an impossible job.
To filter through the crap and extract the few nuggets of gold from the
dross would be almost a full-time job for someone. JMS doesn't have
the type of personality that reacts in a particularly measured way.
He reacts quickly and usually decisively. This is an example of that.
I suspect that although he will miss some of the group, his overwhelming
feeling will be one of relief to get rid of it.
>How you would respond if JMS said, "I'm sorry,
>after setting up shop on America Online, I find I have no more
>time to read the filtered messages from rastb5."
I probably wouldn't respond at all. Taking part in this group is not
jms' job, he's not getting paid for it, and despite being a bit of an
ego-trip, he doesn't have to do it. I tend towards believing his version
of his reasons rather than other people's version.
>Add this fact: We are heading into 8 weeks of reruns. Discussion
>here will be as bleak as the long wait for the final four, and without
>the benefit of the Brits' sneak-peek spoilers. If you are going to bow
>out, now is the best time.
Not having any fresh source material will be a good test of the character
of this group. I suspect you're right - postings will dwindle and what
little group character there is will die. But don't expect any sympathy -
it will be at least March before we can see any Season 3 stuff transmitted
here in the UK. That notwithstanding, the UK group is quieter, but is
demonstrating a strength of character that puts this one in the shade.
>Now ask yourself, "just who is getting away with what?"
I am unaware of the crime to which you are referring. If you mean to
suggest that he needs some pretext to leave this group, I believe you're
mistaken. This group has no authority whatsoever - certainly not over
JMS. If he chooses to leave, by whatever mechanism, it's not a case of
"getting away with it".
Do you *really* believe that he would leave the group even if some
enlightened person had put a bullet through Fuller's head ? I suspect not.
Regards,
Paul.
-- ("at work" account)
--
-- From "Twinkle Butt"
-- A .sig's all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality.
-- Registered no. 157 at Wolf 359 '96
-- and no. 2 at Babblings 3
Paul Harper
>In article <8176626...@icihqgis.demon.co.uk>,
>Paul Harper <pa...@icihqgis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>I for one am glad to be several thousand miles away from the
>>likes of them.
>>
>Unfortunately, you are still a victem of their behaviour. JMS's latest
>episode speaks of "the difficulty of forgiving". I am not sure I can.
That's exactly how I feel Kurt - A victim of other's behaviour.
It is inexcusable, and I certainly have no intention of letting this
one quietly slip away.
Dylan Northrup
Thanks for the time and effort you *did* spend here. I guess this means
that I'll have to sign up again to Genie ;-)
Regretfully,
Dylan Northrup
James A. Wolf
>I just saw a response from Frank Lazar (fml...@ritz.mordor.com) go past my
>newsreader. Is it true? I gather there was more to jms' message than Frank
>quoted but the university's newsreader is giving me about one message in five
>now-a-days. If anyone has the complete message from jms, or knows what
>happened, please e-mail me!
I too missed his whole message, and I would appreciate someone
e-mailing it to me.
Thanks.
(BTW the three horsemen of the apocolypse have been rather silent on
the subject...)
As for my opinion of this whole affair, the first and third quotes in
my sig say it all. (The second is purely self-refernential.)
James A. Wolf - jw...@cybercom.net
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in
Samson's time." --Richard Nixon
<*>****************************************************************
"I'm not very good at it myself, but the first rule about spelling
is that there is only one 'z' in 'is'."-- George S. Kaufman
*******************************************************************
"Self-esteem, n. An erroneous appraisement." -Ambrose Bierce
Kurt Reisler
Generic Account 1175 <masc...@rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>tot...@plato.nmia.com (Totoro) writes:
>
>> I believe that clearly, this means Theron Fuller, Deborah Fuller,
>>and Ford Thaxton must die. They are evil people whose permanent removal
>
>Whoa there! Let's not fight venom with venom. It gets us nowhere.
>
>With yesterday's PBS special in mind, I suggest that TF and FT be
>sentenced to an hour in a script written by Rod Serling.
What a fascinating idea......... Do you have a specific script in
mind?
_\|/_ "Are the gits with the flame-throwers gone yet?"
(o o)
--oOO-(_)-OOo-------------------------------------------------
Phil Boswell
(rhol...@triton.mayfield.hp.com) writes:
>So, you are leaving rastb5 tomorrow. This explains the urgency behind
>your move to have Ford's AOL account cancelled.
>Well, this room has doors open to everyone with no charge for admission,
>and no doorman. Plenty of judges and juries, but no bailiff. If you
>get bored with moderated kudos, drop back in for a quick tussle.
Some people just can't resist putting the boot in, can they?
----+----.----+----.----+----.----.----.----+----.----+----.----+----.----+
"I'm a Surrealist, you know," said Phil, his participles dangling. "If it |
weren't for the fact that it would be against the rules for me to behave |
in anything but a purely bizarre manner, you would definitely be in a tin |
of rice pudding. A whole tin." Phil Boswell (ph...@codd-date.win-uk.net)
John Aegard
> See you on the flip side.
> With great affection, J. Michael Straczynski
Likewise, big guy. Don't get complacent.
Johnzo.
<who will continue to post the Jump Point reviews even
though the chance that JMS reads them has gone from slim to none>
De Castellvi Jaime M
: For everyone else, a thought. Thaxton and the Fullers have email addresses.
: Thaxton and the Fullers have internet providers. For what they've done for
: this group and the B5 fan community in general, I would have thought that a
: strongly-worded complaint to their providers would not be out of order. A
: copy of salient quotes from JMS's message would not go amiss. For all the
: rights that freedom of speech confers there are responsibilities which the
: Unholy Trinity have clearly failed to appreciate. Maybe their service
: providers will think likewise.
Taaa...from now on they are not even worth a thought.
Jaime
rba...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Over the years i have Greatly enjoyed you Comments and views about the show.
Thank you.
--
===========================================================================
Robert Babiak (Sarflin Moonwalker) email: rba...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Try tempus MUD: styx.ph.msstate.edu 2020
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The loneliness of the centuries does rest upon my soul.
And with each beat of my heart it does grow colder.
Colder and colder till the warmth of a bright spring day
Is but a distant memory. 95-10-31
==========================================================================
J.M.Egolf
Jon S Green <jo...@harlequin.co.uk> wrote:
>
>For everyone else, a thought. Thaxton and the Fullers have email addresses.
>Thaxton and the Fullers have internet providers. For what they've done for
>this group and the B5 fan community in general, I would have thought that a
>strongly-worded complaint to their providers would not be out of order. A
>copy of salient quotes from JMS's message would not go amiss. For all the
>rights that freedom of speech confers there are responsibilities which the
>Unholy Trinity have clearly failed to appreciate. Maybe their service
>providers will think likewise.
No, No, No.
Sorry, Jon, but this will just feed their paranoia and hatred. The best
thing we can do at this point is what we should have done from the start:
Ignore them.
(and let's face it, even if we could get their service yanked, they'd
just go somewhere else and post from there)
Remember Sebastian's pain at the difference between *his* perception of
his actions and history's perception of them? His greatest regret was not
that he failed, not that he'd done a horrible evil for what he considered
a good reason -- it was that no one remembered his real name.
Obscurity is the best punishment for people like this, if punishment is
what you wish to inflict.
Me, I've just seen "Gethsemane" and while I won't spoil if for you,
remember these words: "Where is the line between justice and vengeance?
Forgiveness is a difficult thing, isn't it?"
Or, from an episode you probably *have* seen:
"When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy."
Please don't overlook what JMS has been trying to teach us, or at least
make us think about, in your disappointment that he won't be here much
longer, okay?
Thanks -- didn't mean to go on so long.
--
******************** ***************
J.M. ("Jamie") Egolf jeg...@xnet.com
<*> "We find meaning where we can." <*>
J.M.Egolf
Brian 'Doc' O'Neill <one...@cs.uml.edu> wrote:
>Sigh... :^(
>
>
>Maybe there is some way we can get JMS to stay on the Internet, in
>a more moderated environment, instead of a UseNet newsgroup. Maybe
>something Web-based? I can host it...hell, I'll WRITE the software...
>
>Does GEnie do World Wide Web yet?
Well, here's a really crazy thought -- maybe the Official Fan Club could
hire a full-time moderator to run a subscription-only interactive
e-journal of some kind. I'd sure pay for it!
I'm really sorry that JMS won't have the opportunity to play with us any
more -- such a forum would give him back that opportunity, without
costing as much as one of the proprietary services. It would also have
the benefit of still being universial -- I don't think the UKers, for
example, can get AOL accounts.
Any thoughts?
Jeremy Lakatos
FUCK.
JMS's presence here made this a newsgroup I could read. I could not usually
stand to read a high volume group...I usually give up even scanning for
subject lines with so many posts. But jms made this group worth it.
It made the show that much deeper. Knowing, "hey, he gave a one line hint
about that last year, the bastard! (the genius)." Knowing the behind
the scenes reasoning, extra background info, and just lots of cool stuff.
Little in-jokes.
Now the show will seem shallower, though it won't be objectively.
Now this newsgroup is shallower. No more rallying around jms comments. All
there are left are a few fantastic hardworking analyzers like Cheryl and
the guy who took his name out of his reviews and instead made them Jump
Points. But it'll be ONLY speculation if it's one of those side-tracks.
Again, FUCK. Now flames, they roll right off me, cause I just stop reading,
but I understand how jms feels. I guess my FUCK is really a FUCK YOU.
Forgive the profanity. I think I must go kill myself, now. No--the show
is still around, and you can't stop that. Not for three years anyway.
Keep writing good stuff, Joe, and may all the nonexistent gods be with
ye. good b'ye.
--
jer...@grove.ufl.edu (SF net-anthology taking stories; email for info)
Matthew D. Krapf
: (unlurk)
: I can tell that Joe is resolute in his decision, and I'm sure that others
: on this group will express their regret more eloquently than I can mine.
: So I will be brief:
: Aw hell...
: JMS, you will be greatly missed.
: Andy
: (relurk)
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Andrew Kuhl | Dead wildflowers and a bottle of
: 4A Electrical Engineering (Ohm Brew) | vodka on the kitchen table...
: University of Waterloo |
kare...@ix.netcom.com
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>It's a shame that Joe has to go. We'll all miss him greatly and miss the
>insights into the show.
>However, I have a thought that might work. Is there a B5 mailing list
>that he CAN participate in? We simply design the charter to not allow
>petty flamage (and posting of stories :-) and give the boot to anyone
>that violates the charter.
>I'll even look into seeing if I can set up the list if there is interest.
I could support this easily! And it sounds like THE solution to me.
Although I am still a bit unclear as to how the info group will work,
it does seem that it will not be anywhere near an equivalent to the Q
& A that goes on here. I'm with you Robert, GO FOR IT!!
Karen
BTW, My girlfriend is on a Keanu Reeves mailing list and she gets
enormous pleasure from interacting with like-minded folks around the
world. They also have more chance to actually get to know each other
in a more friendly and sympatico atmosphere.
Edgar Peters
Everyone:
Am I missing something here? Three people cause JMS to leave? I
realize that JMS has been harrased by these people, but the best thing
to do is ignore them, not give up!
I have had similar experiences. In some areas I'm known for two
somewhat controversial non-fiction books that I've written. There are
people who, unable to create anything of their own, make it their
life's work to tear down people who have. Its not pretty but it
happens all the time. The best thing to do is ignore them (they are
artistic parasites after all) and eventually they go away.
Too bad JMS won't reconsider on this. Its sort of like giving in to
your kids when they have a tartrum.
Ed Peters
John Wagner
>
>
> [JMS says:]
>
>>I will continue to be present on CIS, Genie, AOL and a few other
>>places, which have more than their share of critical commentaries,
>>but are moderated to prevent this kind of abusive behavior.
>>When the rastb5-info group is open, I will post to that area, and take
>>questions via that forum.
>
>post would appear to indicate that such is not its purpose.
Yes, I noticed this as well. It would seem that either JMS has been
misinformed about the function of the info group, or its charter does
not reflect its true function. I think we'd all like to see this
matter clarifed, and I hope that someone involved in the info group
will do so.
--John
Captain Nerd
<Cheryl....@MVS.UDEL.EDU> wrote:
>I just saw a response from Frank Lazar (fml...@ritz.mordor.com) go past my
>newsreader. Is it true? I gather there was more to jms' message than Frank
>quoted but the university's newsreader is giving me about one message in five
>now-a-days. If anyone has the complete message from jms, or knows what
>happened, please e-mail me!
>
At the risk of sounding like a "me-too er", I have to say I
don't have jms' message at this site, but I have all the replies.,
Did someone cancel the original? And if not, could someone
e-mail me the original?
Let me take the time to say that I regret jms' decision to leave,
but I understand where he's coming from. I long ago killfiled
the Fullers and Thaxton, including replies to their posts, so I have
no idea how bad they became, but I remember how bad they were when I
decided to killfile them. I looked foreward to seeing the insights
jms provided, as only the ultimate insider could. Luckily I have
both AOL and C$erve access, so I can keep up, but not daily like
I could on Usenet.
Oh, well, I guess this is the Year Of Good Things Ending, what
with jms leaving rastb5 and Calvin and Hobbes ending. Let's
hope good things come of this, hopefully jms won't be distracted
by the Thaxtonians and Fullerites anymore, and he can concentrate
on the rest of the arc.
Take care, jms, and good luck!
Cap.
--
===============================================================================
= Mail: cpt...@access.digex.net ="Stupid, stupid rat creatures!"=
= Web: http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd/ = Bone =
===============================================================================
J.M.Egolf
Robert A. Hayden <hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> wrote:
>However, I have a thought that might work. Is there a B5 mailing list
>that he CAN participate in? We simply design the charter to not allow
>petty flamage (and posting of stories :-) and give the boot to anyone
>that violates the charter.
I posted this last night as a crazy idea, but now that I've slept on it,
it doesn't seem so crazy --
>maybe the Official Fan Club could hire a full-time moderator to run a
>subscription-only interactive e-journal of some kind. I'd sure pay for it!
Or better yet, could somebody somehow run a pay-for-play BBS? It could
either be financed through the Offical Fan Club, or an agency not
associated with Bab.Prod.
Funnelling questions and answers to and from JMS on .info is not going to
let him "play" with us -- something I think we've all enjoyed (he and
us). I'll certainly subscribe to a mailing list, if that's the best we
can do, but I'd rather be able to use trn, and not have to wade through a
lot of e-mail that's not threaded, and is about stuff I'm not interested
in (sorry, but the fuel consumption of Starfuries is not my thing <g>).
By making it pay-for-play we could rent secure space on a commercial
machine somewhere, to which anyone in the world could telnet from their
local ISP. This would let the UKers, for example, continue to play -- as
I said last night, I don't think Jeannette, Julian, Morgan, et al, can
get AOL or GEnie accounts :-)
More importantly, there could be more control over who posts -- since it
is a commercial service, whoever is running it would have the right to
refuse to sell the product to whomever s/he/they chose. No more cries of
censorship or denial of free speech.
I'm thinking the maintenance would be mostly of who'd paid to play, since
it could use the Rangers' moderation program, or a variation thereof, to
screen posts. Ideally, anyone could *read* the BBS (don't want to leave
the lurkers out!) but you'd have to subscribe to post, or at least to
post more than once or twice.
Now, I admit, I don't know a whole lot about how this kind of stuff is
set up, and if I'm mightily displaying my ignorance here, I'll trust some
*kind* soul to *politely* correct me. But I, for one, am not just
supporting the abso-fraggin-lutely best show on TV, SF or otherwise --
I'm supporting *Joe's* show. And I'd like him to be able to interact with
us as much as possible, for his sake and ours.
William Kyrouz
Ugh! I just started reading this group (esp. when I heard B5's top dog
regularly posted here)-- and this happens! Surely this can be solved by
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated? Couldn't it?
I wonder if the flamethrowers JMS was referring to realize that by
doing this they're devaluing USENET. For the most part you need to cough
up cash to AOL, CompuServe or Prodigy to get into forums with
producers/actors/etc from television and movies. USENET has at least a
few exceptions, and now apparently has one fewer-- raising the stock of
the big-three.
Perhaps they did know what they were doing... But I'll leave that to
alt.conspiracy...
Bill Kyrouz
wky...@nyx10.cs.du.edu
RFD:*.moderated?
--
--------------------------------------------
William J. Kyrouz III
wky...@nyx.cs.du.edu
http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~wkyrouz/home.html
Jeannette Simpson
JMS,
All their good wishes go with you.
Babylon 5 will continue to have the loyal support of the UK viewers
who have taken this show to their hearts. As someone over here once
said, it's the best British SF show to be made in America.
Jeannette
________________________________________________________
Jeannette (Jay) Simpson fa...@dial.pipex.com
M. Brumbaugh
>I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
(snip)
>So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
>rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month.
(snip)
>See you on the flip side.
>
> With great affection,
>
> J. Michael Straczynski
Sigh.................
I have just finally gotten my newsreader working. My motivation to
get it working was so I could subscribe to this newsgroup and get the
JMS posts first hand, right away without having to wait a month or
more until they were posted to the Lurker's Guide.
I've been here about 2 weeks lurking, daunted by the volume, but
slogging through so I could see the good stuff.
We have a Constitution that guarantees everyone in the US Freedom of
Speech. However, as usual, there are a few who ruin a good thing for
all.
I'll probably unscribe now that I have no real reason to slog through
this stuff. But on the good side, I see my provider has already
gotten rast.b5.info up, and I've already subscribed there.
To those who've ruined it for the majority, I'll let my signature on
this post tell the story.
M.
It is a positive benefit to obstinate heretics to kill them;
for the longer they live, the more damnation they heap upon
themselves.
~Bellarmire
Robert Holland
>strac...@genie.geis.com said :
>
>[bye]
>
>It is a sad reflection on certain societies that loud-mouthed
>dickless morons like Fuller, Ford and others can get away with
>what they do.
>
>Instead of reasoned arguement, they choose insult and innuendo.
>Instead of civility, they choose abuse and instead of tolerance
>they demonstrate rabid hatred.
>
>I for one am glad to be several thousand miles away from the
>likes of them.
>
Hey, Paul, I'm sure this thread won't die out anytime soon!
But you have to remember: JMS had this newsgroup filtered by
the Rangers, AND he said he placed the three persons he blames
into his killfile. So, what was left, flame-wise? Mostly messages
from the other participants in any flamewar (even in the flame threads
started by JMS).
If you or anyone reading this message participated in any
rastb5 flamefest this year, you must acknowledge your contribution
to JMS deciding to leave. I had my words with the man on
occasion. He did not like my view of his tv show or the way he
conducts business, but he was quick with an insult and showed
a knack for firey missives. To suddenly begin turning the other
cheek is out of character for his online persona.
JMS's sudden departure has caught the Rangers off-guard. Seems if JMS
had expressed any displeasure with their service they would have
bent over backward to satisfy him. They failed and he failed
to work with them. Too bad for all of us, but this is how JMS
chose to act.
How you would respond if JMS said, "I'm sorry,
after setting up shop on America Online, I find I have no more
time to read the filtered messages from rastb5."
Add this fact: We are heading into 8 weeks of reruns. Discussion
here will be as bleak as the long wait for the final four, and without
the benefit of the Brits' sneak-peek spoilers. If you are going to bow
out, now is the best time.
Now ask yourself, "just who is getting away with what?"
--RH
Becky Wilkening
Shove it.
BW
Vince Grienti
The enshrined concept of "Free Speech", is fine until it hurts someone.
Now it has, and we are all minus a very important part of a television
show -- that being, access to the writer/executive producer.
Thanks JMS, I hope to see your words in a newsgroup once more in the future.
Warmest regards,
Vince Grienti
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Any sufficiently advanced technology | ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
is indistinguishable from magic." | (Vince Grienti)
--- Arthur C. Clarke | Nepean, Ontario CANADA
scott parmenter
: Just saw "Passing through Gethsemane." Ironic I should see it today,
: after JMS's announcement.
:
: "Forgiveness is a difficult thing, isn't it?"
Indeed, it's rather bittersweet timing...
Scott Parmenter
sco...@cs.ucr.edu
--
There is, in fact, a manly and lawful passion for equality which
incites men to wish all to be powerful and honored. This passion
tends to elevate the humble to the rank of the great; but there exists
also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels
the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and
reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom.
--Alexis De Tocqueville
Blade Racer
interesting. . . even though he did sound suspiciously like Kosh
sometimes. Anyway, too bad. . . Later!
De Castellvi Jaime M
: Again, my apologies.
As usual, you are more than gracious, sir. Apologies are long overdue,
yes, but not by you. We are all extremely grateful to you for choosing to
hang on for so long, in spite of everything.
: I wish this could be handled in some other
: way, but that doesn't seem likely.
Being an optimist, I hope that this rastb5-info you mentioned will be
here before long. If it is moderated, perhaps it can keep out those few
self-indulgent posts which are an embarrassment to the rest of us.
Perhaps it can become everything that this group could have been.
In terms of choices, Babylon 5 is your priority, and also our own. If
worse comes to worse, Babylon 5 will still go on. What you have built
has developed its own voice, one which speaks with such eloquence that
words and barks can not hope to silence it, in this group or elsewhere.
: You cannot know how your
: words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
: not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show.
Perhaps not, but how could you possibly imagine what you yourself have
done for thousands of us? Every single week, you have given us one hour
of something very positive, immensely beautiful and thought provoking.
And the after-effects of that single hour go on and on in a number of
very positive ways. A common interest in Babylon 5 has provided me with a
number of fascinating new friends in Kingston and Ottawa.
On top of that, through this newsgroup I have been able to encounter and
interact with many extremely special people in a number of ways, yourself
not least, none of which I have actually met *yet* (though I look forward
to the first nearby convention featuring yourself, Ms. Furlan, Mr. O'Hare
and a substantial portion of the population here), and yet some of whom I
would almost dare to refer to as friends.
Take experiences like mine, multiply them by at least quite a few
thousand, and you have accumulated enough principal of good karma to
sit back, relax, and look forward to some very enjoyable incarnations for
quite a few lives to come...on the interest alone.
You have also provided inspiration. You have shown many of us how a creative
vision can be brought into existence for many more. I imagine that many of
those to whom you proven that it can be done will be interested in taking
this realization much further than just a few boring, destructive posts
that nobody will remember in a few weeks's time.
: It's
: been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
: See you on the flip side.
: With great affection,
: J. Michael Straczynski
Ditto.
Jaime M. de Castellvi
Michael E. Seidle
JMS:
As a fellow netcitizen for quite a few years (nearly 10), I am
disappointed with your decision. You have been attacked by persons
with far smaller minds, those with no hope for greatness, and persons
who do not know their own identity. I have personally found that
posting *anything* on the internet is dangerous. No one really reads,
and no one has to "go face to face" to handle the insult.
To be honest, I have not seen all the negative "the show is dying"
posts. Those I have seen come frome someone's Compuserve or AOL
cross-post. Many posts are calls to arms, like those I posted when
our local (Indy) station pulled the plug. The result was a new
station picking the show up. Without this forum, there would not have
been the quick, overwhelming response to the station.
Through all of it there has been the daily tide of positive posts.
Those complimenting your work, your vision, and the integrity of your
ideas have posted often. Even the questions directed towards you are
good.
I do not understand your decision. Why choose to dignify the
naysayers now?
Brian Handel
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
This sucks! Are you happy now? I never quite undersood the
term "flame" or "flamer" but I do now. People need to treat
each other with respect and not spread lies or innuendo. I
enjoyed reading JMS's notes to this page and now he's gone.
2 more things to say. This is JMS's show and labor of love.
His alone and no one elses. 2nd comment to you flamers out
there. Get a life!Please.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: jms resigns rastb5
Author: rec.arts.sf...@cs.columbia.edu at p_Internet_mail
Date: 11/29/95 6:58 AM
Subject: jms resigns rastb5
* 1: Nov 27, 1995: strac...@genie.geis.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: strac...@genie.geis.com
Lines: 171
I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
in general, and me in particular.
To that effect, they lie, manufacture facts, speculate based on
premises that have no basis whatsoever in reality, engage in smear
campaigns, insult and abuse users of this area, drop innuendo when
they have nothing else to grab onto...they leap into threads that
should by all rights be reasonably safe from flame and turn them
into referendums on whether or not jms is a liar, in the kind of
logic that stems from "are you still beating your wife?" premises.
The progression is always the same: a smear message, or an outright
fabrication, gets posted; it generates heated replies from other
users; those users are then attacked for being unthinking followers
or sycophants (when the reality is that the original message was
bone-headed and simply *wrong), thus ensuring that the conversation
is not about the subject anymore, but rather the conversation becomes
about the conversation...and in that form, it can go on forever,
spreading out into more and more threads until all you see after a
while are flames in every direction.
I try to stay out of it as much as I can...but sooner or later
something so odious, so despicable, such an obvious, irredeemable lie
gets posted that I lose my temper and have to respond. I sit here,
and take sucker punches to the face, every single time I sign on from
some of the outrageous stuff that goes on here; I take it quietly, but
after you're punched in the face three, four, five times a day, for
weeks at a time, damn it sooner or later you're going to hit back, and
hard. And that's when the same cadre of imbeciles comes back and
says, "Gee, look at that, see how badly he behaves?"
More and more lately, I have been signing on here, and by the time I
log off, I'm furious. Furious for the unsubstantiated character
assassination directed against me...and over the course of the year
plus I've been here, not one -- not ONE -- of the allegations from
Fuller, Fuller or Thaxton have *ever* been proven out, but they just
forget that and move on to the next attack...as well as the attacks
on other users here who have chosen to defend me against these
baseless attacks.
In the past, where it's been just a few threads here and there, and
I knew what they were, I could just avoid them. But in their
ceaseless attacks, designed to provoke a response from me, they
have begun throwing their nets consistently wider, so that they're
all over the place; I can't avoid the hassles and the grief. And
if I see some of this crap, which is untrue and unfair and designed
for no other reason than to cause me grief...I get angry, and when
I get angry, I can't write, and that hurts the show.
And I will not allow the show to be hurt. When it crosses that
line...it stops. One way or another.
I've tried reasonable appeals; those were taken as signs of weakness,
turned into further attacks, and ultimately failed. I've asked
people here *not* to respond to these abusive individuals, because
if they get only silence for their efforts, they will go away; they
live for the echo of pain caused by their words; find validation and
reason to live in that echo. That failed. And now the level of
toxicity has risen to a level that can no longer be tolerated.
And before anyone even *tries* to turn this into "oh, joe just doesn't
want to hear negative stuff about his show, he doesn't want to hear
any criticism, he just wants to be god" (and you know who you are,
and fuck you too), it's got *nothing* to do with criticism of the
show, positive or negative, made from having genuinly thought out
the problems. I've always responded well to any kind of criticism
that is well-considered, and always will.
This has to do with a small handful of people who have, through
their incessant, stalking, compulsive behavior ruined this forum for
not only me but a great deal of other people who've emailed me to
say that they don't post here any more, because they've gotten
tired of being attacked, tired of reading the endless tirades and
smears and assaults on me and other users. The good people get
driven away, and the bad people refuse to go, or to moderate their
behavior, and there is no mechanism currently in place for others
here to moderate their behavior.
I have become, in many ways, the football used to pull others on
either side of the line into an ugly and destructive game. And
the only way to stop it is to remove the football.
So I am posting this as notice that I will be resigning from
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 effective the end of the month. To Ron
and the Rangers...stop sending me the list at that time.
Because the simple reality is that once I'm gone, the prime lure for
those who've turned this place into a constant flame zone for the
last year will have left. And in time, so will they. It's sad
when a handful of people can take something that is of value to
thousands, potentially tens of thousands, of users worldwide, and
chew away at it until there's nothing left, simply because of their
own twisted obsession.
I cannot go to bed, or get up in the morning, furious over the
latest offense committed here by the tyrannical few; I've lost
endless hours sitting here angry over the falsehoods and the
smears and the innuendo. I can't afford to do that anymore.
And just so they cannot weasel their way out of it later, cannot
say "well, it wasn't me, it was just the climate, it was the
fault of those guys over there...look, a comet...." I point the
finger squarely at the Theron Fuller, Deborah Fuller, and Ford
Thaxton, with a couple of other accomplices not worthy of comment.
I hope you enjoy seeing your names in a post by me, folks, since
that's what seems to excite you, because this particular message
is likely to be the last. You've finally succeeded in driving
me off rastb5, which was clearly your intent from the start.
I will continue to be present on CIS, Genie, AOL and a few other
places, which have more than their share of critical commentaries,
but are moderated to prevent this kind of abusive behavior. When
the rastb5-info group is open, I will post to that area, and take
questions via that forum. But I will no longer post to, or read
the main rastb5 area any longer. I simply can't afford the
heartache anymore.
The experiment in interaction between viewers and the makers of
B5 will continue; they just will continue in other places.
People ask why more producers don't come on-line. This is the
reason. Because there are some people out there who are obsessed
with anyone who has even the smallest celebrity (and there ain't
much smaller celebrity than being a producer); people who feel it
is their god-given obligation to tear down the other person, and
to make sure that there cannot *possibly* be anyone in their
universe more important than they themselves. They do not sow,
neither do they reap; they only shred and tear and abuse.
If you're ever going to see more producers on-line, you're going to
have to look seriously into ways to keep the least reputable
elements from turning it into a bloodbath. Because when some say,
as has been said here, "it's my right to say this, and you have to
take it," the response is, "No, I don't." If you stay, you become
an enabler, a co-dependent, who allows the abuse to continue by the
conscious decision to remain where you can be hit.
To the rest of you: I apologize for having to take this step.
Some of you know how difficult this decision has been for me, the
long months I've spent debating it back and forth with friends,
family and other netters. I have enjoyed the exchange, have learned
much from the commentaries, and the discussion, have made many
friends and acquaintances. Were there any way I could stay, be
sure that I would. But when I have to stare at a monitor, when
a script deadline is upon me, and all I can think of is, "That
goddamned liar is spreading the same old crap *again*," then
something has got to go. In this case, that's me.
Because sure as hell, they won't. Not until their punching bag
With the obvious exceptions, I will miss you greatly. As stated
above, I'll be here through the end of the month, just to finish
clearing out stuff, and ease this transition, though probably in
somewhat reduced capacity. I hope to see many of you via the new
info group. Though the discussion will not be quite so free
wheeling as it is here, because of the moderated structure there,
it will be good to look upon your faces (well, your pixels) in the
months to come there.
Again, my apologies. I wish this could be handled in some other
way, but that doesn't seem likely. You cannot know how your
words, and your efforts, on behalf of B5, have been appreciated
not just by me, but by everyone involved with the show. It's
been a great experience, a chance to learn, and a hell of a ride.
See you on the flip side.
With great affection,
J. Michael Straczynski
--IMA.Boundary.093377718
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 06:58:46 -0500
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To: b5...@cs.columbia.edu
Subject: jms resigns rastb5
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5
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--IMA.Boundary.093377718--
Aaron Sawdey
>Chalk up one more lurker (who usually just did an author search for JMS'
>posts and then skimmed the rest) who's probably going to leave now.
Probably more than one. I also am a lurker with "author=jms" set
permanantly to "select". It's been fun reading your posts and relaying
them to my wife while we watch B5. We'll miss you, Joe.
-- Aaron Sawdey
Generic Account 1175
(me)
>>With yesterday's PBS special in mind, I suggest that TF and FT be
>>sentenced to an hour in a script written by Rod Serling.
>What a fascinating idea......... Do you have a specific script in
>mind?
Well, I was going to say "To Serve Man", but more appropriate to the situation
would be "Four O'Clock", in which a mean-spirited guy, played by Theodore Bikel,
plans to make everybody he hates (and he hates a lot of people) suddenly turn
two feet tall.
-et
--
Ernest S. Tomlinson (masc...@rohan.sdsu.edu) (e...@ugcs.caltech.edu)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"LOOK UPON ME! I'LL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND! I WILL SHOW
YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!!"
Teresa Hehir
have 'won' but the rest of us will miss you.
Good luck and best wishes for the future.
Tre
--
Teresa Hehir ter...@sidhen.demon.co.uk
"Get even, die in debt!"
Mike Gannis
the last two and the next three years! Good luck and keep 'em coming.
You have elevated the aggregate intelligence level of the Net and of
television.
Life's too short to argue with idiots ... or as a wise man said:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing.
It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Cheers!
Mike Gannis | I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world
mga...@sdsc.edu | without hate. And I can picture us attacking that
619 534-5143 | world, because they'd never expect it.
| -- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey
Zafaran
writes:
>In article <30BCAB...@cs.uml.edu>,
>Brian 'Doc' O'Neill <one...@cs.uml.edu> wrote:
>>Sigh... :^(
>>
>>
>>Maybe there is some way we can get JMS to stay on the Internet, in
>>a more moderated environment, instead of a UseNet newsgroup. Maybe
>>something Web-based? I can host it...hell, I'll WRITE the software...
>>
>>Does GEnie do World Wide Web yet?
>
>Well, here's a really crazy thought -- maybe the Official Fan Club could
>hire a full-time moderator to run a subscription-only interactive
>e-journal of some kind. I'd sure pay for it!
>
>I'm really sorry that JMS won't have the opportunity to play with us any
>more -- such a forum would give him back that opportunity, without
>costing as much as one of the proprietary services. It would also have
>the benefit of still being universial -- I don't think the UKers, for
>example, can get AOL accounts.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>--
>******************** ***************
>J.M. ("Jamie") Egolf jeg...@xnet.com
>
> <*> "We find meaning where we can." <*>
Does it say somethimg that I'm crazy enough to apply for the job? My
ISP's got good net connections, although my system may not be up to the
task. Depends on what needs to be run in the way of OS and software. If
it needs more than a Pentium, 16 megs RAM, and about 3 gigs of disk
storage, I'm a bit outclassed unless someone's got a reliable host I could
link to.
Take care,
Pat
------------------------------------------------------------------
Patricia A. Swan zaf...@drake.dnet.net zaf...@aol.com
76571...@compuserve.com [domain name pending]
Carolina Word and Data Services, 213 Franklin St., Bryson City, NC
Bruce Kvam
> D. E. Bath (ba...@aud.alcatel.com) wrote:
> : Damn!!!
>
> I could use a few words stronger than that...
>
> : JMS's posts were the main reason I even read this group. I'm gone too.
> You are not the only one. I hope that those assholes (who I am not going
> to mention) are satisfied with what they have done.
JMS's posts were usually the *only* thing I read -- the volume in this
group is incredibly high. As far as I'm concerned, the moderated
newsgroup will be much better simply for the time savings.
Ariakas
>I've been debating this step for, quite literally, months now.
>What has finally tipped the balance is seeing the extent to which
>rastb5 has been virtually taken hostage by a very few people
>who have no interest in this forum except to tear down this show
>in general, and me in particular.
snip
> J. Michael Straczynski
Thank you for bringing in to the s-f world a new vision....
You will be missed....
Marcin Manek