Lynch's Spoiler Review: "Cost of Living"
Timothy W. Lynch
this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
Oh, my Lord.
*WHAT* were they thinking?
I'm almost speechless at just how bad this was. It had one or two amusing
moments to it, but very, very few. Yeesh.
Anyway, let me get through the synopsis and then see what little I can
comment on this. Maestro:
The Enterprise destroys an asteroid about to crash into an inhabited planet,
and then moves on to continue its mission--but as it leaves, dustlike debris
from the asteroid seems to settle on the ship. Deanna counsels Worf and
Alexander, suggesting they settle their dispute over rules by drawing up a
contract that both sides would then adhere to. She reassures Alexander that
one day he'll come to respect his father--and just then receives word that
her mother is on board.
Lwaxana, it turns out, is getting married while on board, although to a man
of some stature that she's not yet met. She quickly takes a shine to
Alexander and rails against the contract they've been discussing, calling it
a sign of distrust. As the asteroid dust continues to move throughout the
ship unnoticed, Alexander confides to Lwaxana that he hates Worf. She
consoles him, and takes him to a fantasy world on the holodeck where his
every pleasure can be attended to. Both enjoy themselves a great deal--at
least, until a very annoyed Worf and Deanna search them out.
Deanna argues with Lwaxana about the mixed messages she's sending Alexander
and the trouble she's causing, then turns to the upcoming wedding. Lwaxana
dismisses her concerns as nonsense, and then finds the replicator isn't
working properly. Hundreds of them have suddenly malfunctioned, and when
Geordi and Data check out a related problem in an access corridor, they find
some form of gelatinous matter they can't identify. Alexander and Lwaxana
discuss marriage, and Lwaxana confesses that she is compromising in order not
to be alone and afraid.
As the investigation continues, the ship's stabilizers temporarily go offline
as well, and the same residue is found when they're checked out. Minister
Campio, the groom-to-be, is beamed aboard and found to be rather officious
and stuffy. After further study of the commonalities between the two
systems, Geordi and Data hypothesize that there's a parasite of sorts
consuming the nitrium in the Enterprise--and nitrium is also found in the
dilithium chamber and other essential areas.
After Lwaxana offends virtually everyone she's seen so far (particularly
Campio and his Protocol Minister) by whisking Alexander away to another
holodeck visit, Alexander inadvertently prompts Lwaxana into wondering if she
isn't rushing into this too fast. Picard attempts to return the Enterprise
to the Pelloris Field (where the asteroid originated) in an attempt to lead
the parasites to another food source, but the parasites spread so fast that
nearly all essential systems go down. All members of the crew but Data fall
unconscious due to low levels of life support, but Data manages to drive the
parasites away in the nick of time, and all is restored. Lwaxana shocks
Campio at the wedding ceremony by appearing naked, and he flees in shock and
terror. She, Deanna, Alexander and Worf realize that they've taught each
other lessons as they relax once more on the holodeck.
There we are. Sound trite? It was. Now, on to slightly more substantive
comments.
There were precisely two lines that got a wholly positive reaction out of me
in all this. The first was Troi's "on the other hand..." after hearing her
mother was coming on board. The second was Picard's "Permission for an
onboard wedding is granted, Number One. Nothing would please me more than to
give away Mrs. Troi." [preferably to a pool full of piranha, no doubt]. The
latter was this show's version of the "I'll inform the crew" line of "Qpid",
really. This is not a promising parallel.
I honestly don't know exactly what I can say about this. I'm outright
shocked that this made it to the screen. Let's see...
Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that. But with "Ethics", he
began to look like a complete one-note character--and this clinched it.
Alexander may be a very realistic child in some ways--in fact, given the
initial counseling scene with Troi and remembering a few elements of my own
upbringing, I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
environment. It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
be left to die. Please, no more.
On the other hand, I've never defended Lwaxana, and I'm not about to start
with this kind of example. In the past, she has been amazingly annoying and
almost downright grotesque, and almost a halfway decent character in her last
appearance, "Half a Life". Here, she went back to what was apparently the
original plan for the character: a 24th-century Auntie Mame.
In a word: bleah. The result of this transformation was to have a very
sizable fraction of the show aimed at a level that would insult most
eight-year-olds. I've never objected to programs aimed at kids, and have
enjoyed them *if* there's also a hook to keep adults entertained and
interested, e.g. Warner Bros. cartoons or nearly anything by the late Jim
Henson [sigh]. This had *nothing* to keep me watching the holodeck
sequences; in fact, it occasionally took an effort of will to *continue*
watching. Lisa has a five-year-old cousin and a three-year-old cousin who
watch TNG fairly regularly, and I expect they'll adore the holodeck scenes.
They're welcome to them; I'd be happy never to see them again as long as
I live.
None of the actors seemed to be particularly enthusiastic about the show. I
got the impression no one's heart was in this; whether it was because they
were all dead tired or because they'd read the script is something about
which I can only speculate. But it led to probably one of the single most
unsuspenseful suspense scenes I've ever seen: Geordi's "I'm working on
it" while the ship's shaking itself to bits is delivered with all the energy
of a squashed mollusc. (And BTW, most of the Deanna/Lwaxana scenes featured
what could quite possibly be the single *worst* performance I've seen from
Marina Sirtis, _including_ the "intense pain" sequences from "Encounter at
Farpoint". Overacted and overdone--yech.)
The plot, loosely speaking, bounced between absolute predictability and sheer
nonsense. We all knew Worf and Alexander would reconcile, as would Deanna
and Lwaxana, who we also knew wouldn't get married; there's the
predictability. On the other hand, the deflector-dish technique used to
destroy the asteroid goes against everything we've ever been told about how
the dish operates, and the departure of the parasites in the end somehow
magically brought about a fully-operative ship in the wink of an eye. (Yes,
I know they paid lip service to it by "temporary repairs have been
completed", but there was no sign of a single problem as soon as the
parasites left, and if everything was reduced to goo [or as we termed it
halfway through the show, "pixie dust droppings" :-) ], there's not much in
the way of repairs you can DO immediately.)
As I alluded to earlier, the counseling scene at the beginning was actually
reasonable; it looked like the show had some slight potential.
Unfortunately, the closing bit of it (the "you'll come to respect your
parents" bit) went on far too long. As a throwaway, it dragged on about five
lines more than it should have; and as a real point, it was so clipped and
artificial that it set off the moralizing alarm.
The other scene of some interest was Lwaxana's conversation with Alexander
about being old and lonely. If they'd actually *worked* with that throughout
the show and used that as their focus, the show might have had a chance--but
as it is, it just looks out of place. (I got the distinct feeling, however,
that Majel was not thinking of Lwaxana's situation during that speech, but
rather her own recent bereavement. That gave me a bit of sympathy: whatever
my opinions of Lwaxana Troi or of Majel's acting ability, her feelings for
Gene ran very deep.)
I'm running out of things to say, because I'm really just stunned. One final
point, though:
The LA basin experienced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake a few minutes before
10:00 tonight--in other words, just before the closing minutes of the show.
While it gave us a scare at the time (it was our first quake, and hopefully
our last--brrrrrrrr...), it seemed very appropriate in retrospect: as though
the earth *itself* recoiled in horror at just how unpleasant this show was.
You can't argue with that kind of a sign. :-)
In sum, this is easily the worst thing since "Qpid", and *may* give "Qpid" a
run for its money for second-worst TNG ever. If it weren't for its being on
the same tape with "The First Duty", I'd have been sorely, sorely tempted to
take a magnet to the thing by now. If you read this review before you've
seen the show, consider yourself warned off.
So, the numbers:
Plot: 1. Pointless and boring.
Plot Handling: 1. Uninteresting or jarring direction (the return of the
jarring full-face closeups!), and nothing remotely interesting
keeping the plot going.
Characterization: 0. I saw no characters at all.
TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
NEXT WEEK:
Everyone's ideal woman is the prize of a treaty, and Picard is tempted to
take her for himself rather than stop a war.
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
"We're just supposed to sit here?"
--Worf, in closing
"Our thoughts exactly!"
--us, just afterwards
--
Copyright 1992, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
Jose Gonzalez
>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
I was going in expecting it to be horrible. In retrospect, I was being far
too generous. This one's going to replace "Manhunt" as the worst.
>
>Oh, my Lord.
>
>*WHAT* were they thinking?
>
>There were precisely two lines that got a wholly positive reaction out of me
>in all this. The first was Troi's "on the other hand..." after hearing her
>mother was coming on board. The second was Picard's "Permission for an
>onboard wedding is granted, Number One. Nothing would please me more than to
>give away Mrs. Troi." [preferably to a pool full of piranha, no doubt].
Two things I thought were amusing were Mrs. Troi's "Mr. Wolf" and Worf's
"You're just supposed to sit here?"
>I honestly don't know exactly what I can say about this. I'm outright
>shocked that this made it to the screen. Let's see...
>
>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that. But with "Ethics", he
>began to look like a complete one-note character--and this clinched it.
>Alexander may be a very realistic child in some ways--in fact, given the
>initial counseling scene with Troi and remembering a few elements of my own
>upbringing, I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
>featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
>rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
>in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
>environment.
Well, actually, he had some decent characterization during his "He wants me
to be perfect. I can't do it" (or whatever) scene. The rest was
forgetable though.
>This had *nothing* to keep me watching the holodeck
>sequences; in fact, it occasionally took an effort of will to *continue*
>watching. Lisa has a five-year-old cousin and a three-year-old cousin who
>watch TNG fairly regularly, and I expect they'll adore the holodeck scenes.
>They're welcome to them; I'd be happy never to see them again as long as
>I live.
*This* is what they used they're money on instead of "Dueling Q's?" What a
waste. I cheered when Worf popped that annoying balloon. That whole idea
was just plain awful.
>what could quite possibly be the single *worst* performance I've seen from
>Marina Sirtis, _including_ the "intense pain" sequences from "Encounter at
>Farpoint". Overacted and overdone--yech.)
You're right, *no* one seemed to care about this travesty, and Sirtis looked
like she was acting. I just wish they would retire the idea of Lwaxana. It
means that there can only be 25 quality episodes a season, because I just
can't stand the character or the acting.
>In sum, this is easily the worst thing since "Qpid", and *may* give "Qpid" a
>run for its money for second-worst TNG ever. If it weren't for its being on
>the same tape with "The First Duty", I'd have been sorely, sorely tempted to
>take a magnet to the thing by now. If you read this review before you've
>seen the show, consider yourself warned off.
Naah, "Qpid" was on last night and it doesn't even come close. (So was
"Q Who", by the way, and I had forgotten just how *amazing* that is, and
how downright eery the visit to the ship was. I'm *really* looking forward
to "I, Borg." I hope it's as good as it sounds.) This reminded me of all
too many of TOS episodes in that after the first ten minutes I wanted to
turn to something more interesting, like surgery. Last time TNG
did this was "Half a Life." What a coincidence.
>TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
That's about right.
>
>NEXT WEEK:
>Everyone's ideal woman is the prize of a treaty, and Picard is tempted to
>take her for himself rather than stop a war.
This one looks awful too. It looks like we could have three really bad
episodes in a row before "I, Borg." The last four sound very good, though.
--
Jose Gonzalez
Spock- "In your own way, you are as stubborn as another
captain of the Enterprise I once knew."
Picard-"Then I'm in good company, sir."
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>There were precisely two lines that got a wholly positive reaction out of me
>>in all this. The first was Troi's "on the other hand..." after hearing her
>>mother was coming on board. The second was Picard's "Permission for an
>>onboard wedding is granted, Number One. Nothing would please me more than to
>>give away Mrs. Troi." [preferably to a pool full of piranha, no doubt].
>Two things I thought were amusing were Mrs. Troi's "Mr. Wolf" and Worf's
>"You're just supposed to sit here?"
Kaff, kaff, choke. I couldn't enjoy those two if I tried.
>>In sum, this is easily the worst thing since "Qpid", and *may* give "Qpid" a
>>run for its money for second-worst TNG ever. If it weren't for its being on
>>the same tape with "The First Duty", I'd have been sorely, sorely tempted to
>>take a magnet to the thing by now. If you read this review before you've
>>seen the show, consider yourself warned off.
>Naah, "Qpid" was on last night and it doesn't even come close.
The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. This is probably an
easy candidate for second place. "Qpid" at least had the advantage of having
the main guest star actually *attempt* to act with a little flair.
Tim Lynch
Atsushi Kanamori
>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>
>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
An easy bottom 1 for me. At least the ROYALE had an original premise
(albeit with extremely blah execution) and the story actually had
a beginning, middle and ending. COST, on the other hand, didn't
go *anywhere*; it was a disjointed collection of awful scenes.
>Oh, my Lord.
>
>*WHAT* were they thinking?
That certain sitcoms with smartass kids (yech) get better ratings than
TNG does and they better grab that audience.
>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that.
And I honestly can't see why. Characterizationwise, NEW GROUND and COST
are twin siblings. Worf growls and acts incompetent and Alexander
whines and throws tantrums. The only difference is that COST didn't even
*attempt* to develop or resolve this thread while NEW GROUND "reconciled"
them using what was, from W/A's POV, the deus-ex-machina Soliton Wave
Crisis that was utterly tangential to the real issues underneath.
>I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
>featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
>rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
>in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
>environment.
Alexander: HAH! HAH!!! HAH!!!!
I was covering my ears. How could they film this stuff?
>It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
>parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
>to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
>be left to die. Please, no more.
I hope this means you've joined the "kill Alexander" club -- it'd be
nice since between COST and HAVEN, I've just joined the "kill Lwaxana"
club. The writers will *never* be able to use them effectively for anything
more than low-grade infantile sitcom routines since that's all either of
them are capable of *doing*.
>As I alluded to earlier, the counseling scene at the beginning was actually
>reasonable; it looked like the show had some slight potential.
Arrgh -- that was when I started grinding my teeth. It seems to be a
universal constant that Alexander comes on whining and screaming -- and
they shot Troi's characterization all the way back to the Pedantic Counselor
mode from previous seasons. Hopefully, this is but a fluke.
>Unfortunately, the closing bit of it (the "you'll come to respect your
>parents" bit) went on far too long. As a throwaway, it dragged on about five
>lines more than it should have; and as a real point, it was so clipped and
>artificial that it set off the moralizing alarm.
Yo -- *very* preachy -- not just here, but throughout. You could tell
the scenes being set up just so that Lwaxana and Alexander could
recite Life Lessons at each other.
>I'm running out of things to say, because I'm really just stunned. One final
>point, though:
>
>The LA basin experienced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake a few minutes before
>10:00 tonight
That wasn't the earth, that was me :-)
>--in other words, just before the closing minutes of the show.
>While it gave us a scare at the time (it was our first quake, and hopefully
>our last--brrrrrrrr...)
Welcome to California.
>In sum, this is easily the worst thing since "Qpid", and *may* give "Qpid" a
>run for its money for second-worst TNG ever. If it weren't for its being on
>the same tape with "The First Duty", I'd have been sorely, sorely tempted to
>take a magnet to the thing by now.
If T1D weren't the last first-run episode I saw before COST, I might be
sorely tempted to commit series-i-cide about now.
>So, the numbers:
>
>Plot: 1. Pointless and boring.
>Plot Handling: 1. Uninteresting or jarring direction (the return of the
> jarring full-face closeups!), and nothing remotely interesting
> keeping the plot going.
>Characterization: 0. I saw no characters at all.
>
>TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
A solid "-1" from me.
. . . . .
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------------ -------------------------- --------------------------
TNG Lifelines: From "Yesterday's Enterprise" To "The First Duty" --
"Prior to Starfleet Academy commencement ceremonies, an in-flight
accident destroys five ships, including the one carrying Wesley
Crusher" -- TV Guide: Mar. 28 - Apr. 3
Kyle Jones
Tim (and Jose) and I couldn't be in more disagreement about "Cost
of Living" so there's no sense contesting each of the points they
made. I ask this, though: Didn't either of you like the six-way
argument just before Lwaxana and Alexander slipped off to the
holodeck the second time?
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
>
>I was going in expecting it to be horrible. In retrospect, I was being far
>too generous.
Much. I thought I was emotionally prepared for this episode. I wasn't.
>
>Two things I thought were amusing were Mrs. Troi's "Mr. Wolf" and Worf's
>"You're just supposed to sit here?"
I think I had one honest laugh through the whole thing: when Picard
said "How do were persuade the parasites to leave the ship", I yelled
out "Feed them Alexander!!!"
>Well, actually, he had some decent characterization during his "He wants me
>to be perfect. I can't do it" (or whatever) scene. The rest was
>forgetable though.
Eh. It might have worked better for me if his voice hadn't hit precisely
the right pitch to set my ears vibrating. That was probably the least
objectionable Alexander scene in the episode and I was already
reaching for something to throw at the screen.
>You're right, *no* one seemed to care about this travesty,
I'm glad -- maybe they'll work harder to stop the producers from ever
doing something like again.
>>NEXT WEEK:
>>Everyone's ideal woman is the prize of a treaty, and Picard is tempted to
>>take her for himself rather than stop a war.
>
>This one looks awful too. It looks like we could have three really bad
>episodes in a row before "I, Borg."
Yep.
>The last four sound very good, though.
Oh I don't know. INNER LIGHT sounds rather gimmicky -- it *might* be
very good or it could be awful.
TIME'S ARROW *does* sound awful and after their previous attempts at
two-part cliffhangers, I'm holding no faith in a third one.
NEXT PHASE sounds routine at best (and that it stars Ensign Ro again isn't
making me cheer either.)
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>*WHAT* were they thinking?
>That certain sitcoms with smartass kids (yech) get better ratings than
>TNG does and they better grab that audience.
I *really* hope that wasn't their motivation. I'd prefer to think they were
all possessed.
>>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that.
>And I honestly can't see why. Characterizationwise, NEW GROUND and COST
>are twin siblings.
Not really. NG *established* these character conflicts and at least attempted
to deal with them in a semi-reasonable fashion c/o Deanna. It mostly failed,
but it tried. CoL took the established traits and stood around whining about
it for an hour.
>Alexander: HAH! HAH!!! HAH!!!!
>I was covering my ears. How could they film this stuff?
So was I by the end. I have no clue.
>>It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
>>parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
>>to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
>>be left to die. Please, no more.
>I hope this means you've joined the "kill Alexander" club --
Not quite. I'm in the "completely revamp Alexander or else drop him entirely"
club. He's still new enough that with a big turnaround, he could be saved.
Not so for Lwaxana, though.
>>As I alluded to earlier, the counseling scene at the beginning was actually
>>reasonable; it looked like the show had some slight potential.
>Arrgh -- that was when I started grinding my teeth. It seems to be a
>universal constant that Alexander comes on whining and screaming -- and
>they shot Troi's characterization all the way back to the Pedantic Counselor
>mode from previous seasons.
The "I sense hostility" line, yes. Her proposal and her handling of Worf
wrt it ("Then you should have no problem obeying that part"), absolutely
not. She's actually being skilled for a change. That scene and Picard's
"Nothing would please me more" line are what saved the show from a 0.
>>The LA basin experienced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake a few minutes before
>>10:00 tonight
>That wasn't the earth, that was me :-)
Oh. I'll send YOU the medical bills for the scratches we got when our cat
figured out what was happening, then? :-)
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
Nope. The concept had some vague merit, but the scene itself had me yawning
in disbelief and utter boredom.
But thanks for playing. :-)
Tim Lynch
Matthew Gertz
kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
>
>An easy bottom 1 for me. At least the ROYALE had an original premise
>(albeit with extremely blah execution) and the story actually had
>a beginning, middle and ending. COST, on the other hand, didn't
>go *anywhere*; it was a disjointed collection of awful scenes.
As I told Tim earlier today, this episode was so bad that I'm not even going
to watch it... 8^) I'm glad y'all see the episodes before us in the 'Burgh,
and can warn us...
--
Matt Gertz, mwge...@cs.cmu.edu
Dept. of ECE, The Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon University.
Atsushi Kanamori
ky...@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:
>...sreliops
>Tim (and Jose) and I couldn't be in more disagreement about "Cost
>of Living" so there's no sense contesting each of the points they
>made. I ask this, though: Didn't either of you like the six-way
>argument just before Lwaxana and Alexander slipped off to the
>holodeck the second time?
I'll simply let the perpetrators speak:
Troi: Hah!
Alexander [screws his eyes shut, shoves head back, opens mouth wide]: HAH!!!
Next question? :-)
. . . . .
: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
------------ -------------------------- -------------------.------
TNG Lifelines: From "Yesterday's Enterprise" To "Cost of Living" --
[quote-generator stunned speechless by abominable quality]
ij...@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
A little. It was blatantly the "total chaos humor" scene which is often
funny no matter how many shows have used it before. But it seemed to go on
for too long. Or maybe that's just becasue it didn't do what the TCH scene
has to do: get funnier and funnier and then suddenly stop and wind down.
Well, it stopped suddenly, but it didn't meet the other two requirements.
Still, it was mildly amusing. But if that is going ot be the highpoint of
TNG episodes to come...I may have to drop this from my TV schedule.
(Reducing the number of non-animated fiction shows I watch down to 1.)
======================================================================
| "Sir, this chicken is still alive." | Mira-Sukotto |
| "Thank you, Mr. Spock. Bones, give me a reading."| (Scott Miller) |
| <Beep...beep...beep> |------------------
| "It's raw, Jim!" | ij59@ |
| "Right, then, phasers on 'roast'." | vaxb.acs.unt.edu|
| Zzzaappp . . . <SQUAAAWK!> |==================
| |
| -- Tiny Toon Adventures |
=====================================================
Edna Mueller
Time for a new newsgroup?
How about alt.alexander.kill.inviscerate.destroy?
Any other ideas?
Schmeby
mue...@cage.eng.mcmaster.ca
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oops". -- Jean-Luc Picard, "Pen Pals"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atsushi Kanamori
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
SPOILERS for CoL
>
>>>*WHAT* were they thinking?
>
>>That certain sitcoms with smartass kids (yech) get better ratings than
>>TNG does and they better grab that audience.
>
>I *really* hope that wasn't their motivation. I'd prefer to think they were
>all possessed.
As would I, but look at the evidence. We saw virtually nothing of
Worf, this time around, and half of Alexander's scenes were strictly
for laughs (at least I assume that's how they were intended.)
One could (barely) argue that this was TNG's attempt to do NEW GROUND
from Alexander's POV, but as many have pointed out, they didn't even
ATTEMPT to show us anything new or make any progress on the conflict angle.
They didn't even set it up right (asking him not to lie or steal and do
his laundry doesn't come anywhere near demanding perfection.)
When it comes right down to it, giving Alexander and Lwaxana lots of
airtime is the *only* thing this episode does consistently.
>>>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>>>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that.
>
>>And I honestly can't see why. Characterizationwise, NEW GROUND and COST
>>are twin siblings.
>
>Not really. NG *established* these character conflicts and at least attempted
>to deal with them in a semi-reasonable fashion c/o Deanna. It mostly failed,
>but it tried. CoL took the established traits and stood around whining about
>it for an hour.
That much is true, but I was talking about the character here. He was pretty
much the same character *then* that he is in CoL.
>>I hope this means you've joined the "kill Alexander" club --
>
>Not quite. I'm in the "completely revamp Alexander or else drop him entirely"
>club. He's still new enough that with a big turnaround, he could be saved.
For me, they'd have to recast the character with someone with at least minimal
dramatic acting ability, introduce some *genuine*, two-sided disagreements
between Worf and Alexander (not this laundry business shit) and portray
them both as willing to at least *try* working effectively with each other,
even if they'll always disagree on certain things.
>>>The LA basin experienced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake a few minutes before
>>>10:00 tonight
>
>>That wasn't the earth, that was me :-)
>
>Oh. I'll send YOU the medical bills for the scratches we got when our cat
>figured out what was happening, then? :-)
Nah. Send it to the writer who created this travesty.
. . . . .
: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
------------ -------------------------- -------------------.------
TNG Lifelines: From "Yesterday's Enterprise" To "Cost of Living" --
[Episode unavailable for comment. Homocide teams are investigating.]
twi...@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
> TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
BAD TIM!
BAD
BAD
BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shame on you.
I discredit your vote from the "TNG Babe/Dude" Awards.
Nice guys finish last, Tim-boy.
:)
twiGGy
______
The ever curious twiGGy....
twi...@unt.edu
twi...@untvax.bitnet
twi...@av8r.uucp
Data n' Spot in 92!
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>SPOILERS for CoL
>>>>*WHAT* were they thinking?
>>
>>>That certain sitcoms with smartass kids (yech) get better ratings than
>>>TNG does and they better grab that audience.
>>
>>I *really* hope that wasn't their motivation. I'd prefer to think they were
>>all possessed.
>As would I, but look at the evidence.
Granted, but past Lwaxana shows also suggest that nobody who's ever been on
staff has a real idea of what to *do* with her. This was probably a last-
minute "oh, what the hell, let's try this" show. At least, I fervently hope
so.
>>>>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>>>>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that.
>>
>>>And I honestly can't see why. Characterizationwise, NEW GROUND and COST
>>>are twin siblings.
>>
>>Not really. NG *established* these character conflicts and at least attempted
>>to deal with them in a semi-reasonable fashion c/o Deanna. It mostly failed,
>>but it tried. CoL took the established traits and stood around whining about
>>it for an hour.
>That much is true, but I was talking about the character here.
Let me clarify, then. Alexander's NG outing showed a lot of traits which could
*potentially* be used very effectively in upcoming shows, and hinted that there
might be some actual progress made. As I said in the initial review of CoL,
the character has stayed firmly rooted right where it was originally dropped,
however. And *that*'s the biggest problem.
By way of analogy, few minded an alien with just a bumpy-head look the
very *first* time it arrived.
>He was pretty much the same character *then* that he is in CoL.
But *then*, they debuted it and suggested it had a chance. CoL demonstrated
that those chances have gone unused.
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
paragraph is from me. --TWL
==========================================================================
Want no one has said is that there were 3 major (?) plots in this eposide:
Lwaxana/Alex, Lwaxana's wedding, and the parasite. Some of the other worse
episodes have tended to have too many plots to follow and resolve, and this
one was no difference.
Obviously, the L/A plot was there from the beginning, as well as the
implication of the parasite. However, very little was done with the parasite
until the end (the first time I saw this, I can in with only 25 minutes left,
and Picard, Data and Geordi were just analyzing the jello.) Then, the wedding
plot was almost confined to the last 20 minutes, and it only got, oh, 7 minute
of the entire episode. The ENTIRE parasite was removed in all of 3 minutes
(talk about quick extermination), which of course seems familar of other
5th season epidoes. Then the writers through in the standard minor plots
as well.
The problem of too many plots is twofold. First, you have to devote air
time to each one. In this case, this was poorly done, focusing too much
on the L/A plot and too little in the others for development. Second, the
viewer must be able to follow all the plots. HA (no pun intended) but the
plots were too pooly developed to be followed at all (indicted by my lack of
attention during the show).
Also, there was mo correlation between the plots. Only 3 (short) scenes were
used to do it. The 6-way arguement, the contaimination of the holodeck, and
the wedding scene. Without any more ties, it was hard to follow the basic
plots of the show.
The way to remove all of this is to remove one plot completely, and work at
the other two...Here are some ideas....
1) L/A and wedding - The idea was already there. Lwaxana was spending
too much time with Alex before the groom beamed aboard, and therefore, would
never talk to him. Worf would be still upset about all of it, as well as
Deanna. This could have been a good 'moral' type episode, or even somewhat
cutsy with jokes and pun through the show. (What, the Big E NOT at danger!?)
2) L/A and parasite - Again Lwaxana takes liking the Alex, and Worf not happy
at all. Parasite invades, no one knows till halfway point of show. Parasite
destroys many system, including warp. While Picard and others work on
remove it, Lwaxana and Alex are trapped on HD where the pleasure program is
being invaded with elements of Worf's training program, and L and A must fight
together for their lives. After several tries, crew finds out how to remove
the parasite, but life support and most internal power goes down, and Data
removes the parasite for them. Once disinfected, Worf and Troi rescue L and A
from holodeck....(This one is the worst, since weve seen something like it
before)...
3) Wedding and parasite - This oned could have been good. L and guy still to
get married, but guy is a little more strict and stuffy, with bad attitute about
Starfleet. Parasite invades, same time line as before. During the parasite
invasion, several misdoing occur to the guy and his advisor, giving them that
feeling that Starfleet is mistreating them, and they threated to call off the
wedding , and report to Federation about the mistreatement. Several arguments
later, they realize their misunderstandings, and things continue as before.
As stated before, the fault with this episode was the number of major plots to
follow. If they only keep 2 major plot ideas (of this intensity...the Borg
invading tends to take the whole episode), then good episodes can result.
My ideas, for instance, have large ties between all major plots, and
the view is not lost, nor is too little air time devoted to one plot or another.
*sigh* The 5th season is REALLY disappointing...what ever happened to
good ol' season 3....?
Mike Neylon aka Masem the Thermo God mne...@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
"[Comparing French and American wines] is like Star Trek the
Next Generation. It has all the essence of the orignal series
but will never be as good as it" Wayne's World (the movie)
Eric J Bales
>In article <1992Apr23....@eng.umd.edu> wom...@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
>>
>>I was going in expecting it to be horrible. In retrospect, I was being far
>>too generous.
>
>Much. I thought I was emotionally prepared for this episode. I wasn't.
>
>>
>>Two things I thought were amusing were Mrs. Troi's "Mr. Wolf" and Worf's
>>"You're just supposed to sit here?"
>
>I think I had one honest laugh through the whole thing: when Picard
>said "How do were persuade the parasites to leave the ship", I yelled
>out "Feed them Alexander!!!"
I got a kick out of a somewhat different thought during the beginning of
this show. Lwaxana seemed to like Alexander. Wouldn't it be great if
she got married, and took Alexander with her, and then never plagued the
Enterprise again!
Ever wonder why Deanna went into 'counselling'? Had to counsel herself!
With Lwaxana as a mother... EEK!
(I DID like the Mr. Wolf bit... :-))
--
at...@cleveland.freenet.edu -Eric Kirkbride-
bal...@ucunix.san.uc.edu - atr...@tso.uc.edu
-The second dolphin-
Dolphins. Soon you will be one of us, and then you will understand.
Atsushi Kanamori
>I received this in e-mail and was asked to post it. Nothing beyond this
>paragraph is from me. --TWL
>==========================================================================
Spoilers
>
>Want no one has said is that there were 3 major (?) plots in this eposide:
>Lwaxana/Alex, Lwaxana's wedding, and the parasite.
Probably because this syndrome is becoming so common, no one bothers
to comment on it anymore.
>The problem of too many plots is twofold. First, you have to devote air
>time to each one. In this case, this was poorly done, focusing too much
>on the L/A plot
You can say THAT again! :-)
Actually, the problem was that there really *wasn't* a L/A plot in any
valid sense. There was no conflict, no progression, no resolution. It
was a disjointed sequence of events.
>viewer must be able to follow all the plots. HA (no pun intended) but the
>plots were too pooly developed to be followed at all (indicted by my lack of
>attention during the show).
I wasn't following the parasite plot, actually. These days, I can spot
the Tacked On Menace from miles away and I know their only purpose is
to either:
(1) put a key character in danger in the fifth act
(2) give a key character a chance for redemption in the fifth act
(3) no purpose at all -- filler
Either way, I just write my review during the T.O.M. scenes until the
final act.
This helps me focus my attention a bit more.
>As stated before, the fault with this episode was the number of major plots to
>follow.
I think the real problem is that there was really no purpose to making
the episode in the first place. Does anyone here care about laundry
battles between Worf and his brat, or Lwaxana finding out that a groom
she's never met is a rule-driven stiff? Even the average sitcom
has a more interesting premise. Combine this with the absolutely dreadful
writing and acting, and *that's* what sinks this show. It needed no
help from the T.O.M. plot.
Jeff Lee
(Timothy W. Lynch) posts a message from mne...@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
(Mike Neylon):
>
> As stated before, the fault with this episode was the number of major
> plots to follow. If they only keep 2 major plot ideas (of this
> intensity...the Borg invading tends to take the whole episode), then
> good episodes can result.
Whatever happened to the days when the writers were skilled enough to
keep a *single* *good* plot going for the length of the entire episode?
Those, of course, were the "good old days" when the crew of the Enterprise
actually DID "explore strange new worlds" and "seek out new life and new
civilisations". Now it seems more like "thirtysomething" in space.
Mr. Sulu, raise thermal shields... :-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Lee - jl...@smylex.uucp - jlee%smyle...@uhasun.hartford.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather
becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind -- da Vinci
Jose Gonzalez
Umm..let me think about it. No. (-:
Jose Gonzalez
>>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>
>
>>to be perfect. I can't do it" (or whatever) scene. The rest was
>>forgetable though.
>
>Eh. It might have worked better for me if his voice hadn't hit precisely
>the right pitch to set my ears vibrating. That was probably the least
>objectionable Alexander scene in the episode and I was already
>reaching for something to throw at the screen.
At least here they were *trying* to give Alexander some depth. Bonsall is
becoming annoying, however.
>
>
>>You're right, *no* one seemed to care about this travesty,
>
>I'm glad -- maybe they'll work harder to stop the producers from ever
>doing something like again.
Well, at least twice more, what with two more Lwaxana episode do before TNG
runs out.
>
>
>>>NEXT WEEK:
>>The last four sound very good, though.
>
>Oh I don't know. INNER LIGHT sounds rather gimmicky -- it *might* be
>very good or it could be awful.
Sounds great to me, looks like we'll be getting deep into Picard's pscyhe.
I can't wait.
>
>TIME'S ARROW *does* sound awful and after their previous attempts at
>two-part cliffhangers, I'm holding no faith in a third one.
I've enjoyed all three, so I don't have a problem at all, and I look forward
to them for the finale.
>
>NEXT PHASE sounds routine at best (and that it stars Ensign Ro again isn't
>making me cheer either.)
The Romulans always do something for me, and the concept sounds fun.
Atsushi Kanamori
Spoilers for COST OF LIVING
In article <1992Apr25.2...@eng.umd.edu> wom...@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <1992Apr23....@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr23....@eng.umd.edu> wom...@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>>
>>>Well, actually, he had some decent characterization during his "He wants me
>>>to be perfect. I can't do it" (or whatever) scene. The rest was
>>>forgetable though.
>>
>>Eh. It might have worked better for me if his voice hadn't hit precisely
>>the right pitch to set my ears vibrating. That was probably the least
>>objectionable Alexander scene in the episode and I was already
>>reaching for something to throw at the screen.
>
>At least here they were *trying* to give Alexander some depth. Bonsall is
>becoming annoying, however.
Absolutely agreed with the last sentence (:-) but I've been giving
that scene more thought and came up with a stronger reason why it annoyed me.
All throughout NEW GROUND, we were TOLD everything about Alexander
(by three different characters, to boot!) but we're never shown what
we're told. Here, it's the same story. Alexander says:
"I'm expected to do everything right, and I don't know hoowwww."
Okay, so being asked to be perfect is rough: no argument there. But where
is the EVIDENCE for this? What have we ever seen Worf ask of Alexander except
not to lie, not to steal and do his laundry? That doesn't come anywhere
*near* asking for perfection.
You can always rationalize that Worf is emotionally abusing his kid
off-screen but it's the *job* of a dramatic TV show to SHOW us that.
Essentially, that scene was trying to make me feel pity for Alexander
based on a problem that is pulled out of the air with no background
or evidence to back it up. That's why it annoyed me -- his scene
came across as an unsubstantiated sympathy ploy.
Maybe that's what you meant when they said they were "*trying*" to
give him some depth, but it's the result, not the effort, that buys
the cigar.
>>>You're right, *no* one seemed to care about this travesty,
>>
>>I'm glad -- maybe they'll work harder to stop the producers from ever
>>doing something like again.
>
>Well, at least twice more, what with two more Lwaxana episode do before TNG
>runs out.
Hopefully, they'll be better. HALF A LIFE and MENAGE were *miles* above COST.
>>>>NEXT WEEK:
>
>>>The last four sound very good, though.
>>
>>Oh I don't know. INNER LIGHT sounds rather gimmicky -- it *might* be
>>very good or it could be awful.
>
>Sounds great to me, looks like we'll be getting deep into Picard's pscyhe.
>I can't wait.
'Ve shall see.
. . . . .
: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
Timothy W. Lynch
>Spoilers for COST OF LIVING
>Hopefully, they'll be better. HALF A LIFE and MENAGE were *miles* above COST.
Definitely agreed on HaL, but Menage? I think I'd agree that it's substan-
tially better than CoL, but it's still likely to reside in my bottom 5. It
was pretty durned bad.
Tim Lynch
Andrew Pearlman
>Spoilers for COST OF LIVING
>(by three different characters, to boot!) but we're never shown what
>we're told. Here, it's the same story. Alexander says:
>
> "I'm expected to do everything right, and I don't know hoowwww."
>
>Okay, so being asked to be perfect is rough: no argument there. But where
>is the EVIDENCE for this? What have we ever seen Worf ask of Alexander except
>not to lie, not to steal and do his laundry? That doesn't come anywhere
>*near* asking for perfection.
Depends on what you consider perfection and *especially* Alexander's viewpoint.
Alexander was acting like a bully on Earth. Now he's being expected to
behave and act like an honorable Klingon. Given it is Worf, Alexander
probably thinks that he should be stiffly upright honorable around Worf,
which isn't fun for Alexander. It isn't what is actually said, it is what
Alexander thinks what was said. I can easily see Alexander thinking that
he is expected to do everything right.
Andy Pearlman
Atsushi Kanamori
Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
I never minded MENAGE that much, but it's been a while since I saw it and
my perspective was different then, so I'm not going to defend it that strongly.
I can think of plenty of episodes that I liked less, though.
Tim Lister
>Whatever happened to the days when the writers were skilled enough to
>keep a *single* *good* plot going for the length of the entire episode?
Well, I always figure these multiple plot lines are to ensure that
most all of the main characters get a significant amount of dialogue in
each episode. Else they might get all huffy and leave the show like
Denise Crosby did. :-)
They also try to appease both those who want to see action and
technology and those who want to see character development and interaction.
I wish they would stick to one story line, too, instead of wasting an
intersting tech story as a subplot. And I can survive if I don't see a
few of the main characters one week if they aren't really essential to
the plot.
Trekker
Janus International Inc.
> Now [TNG] seems more like "thirtysomething" in space.
Bingo. But thirtysomething as well as L.A. Law did and do better at
creating interesting multiple plots than does TNG.
TNG should be a butt-kicking sci-fi show that explores on the screen
strange new worlds as well as exploring characters whom the viewers
identify with. TNG currently is a predictable, mediocre show that happens
to carry a name that we all know and love, that is by and large
uninteresting (though it has had its gems).
"Long-range sensors detect an unidentified object closing at warp speed."
"Put it on screen, Lt."
"Oh my God. . . ."
"Raise all shields! It's the writers of TNG! They're firing mediocrity
weapons! Oh no, too late! We've been hit! Stand by to act out 'The Cost of
Living'!!!"
--
Kris Magnusson "The Future is Roses"
Janus Review --Thomas Dolby "Windpower"
Salt Lake NeXT Users Group The Golden Age
kr...@neb.uucp and ja...@magnusson.uucp of Wireless
Michael Rawdon
that there are certainly at least five Trek episodes worse than this, but
now I'm not so sure. It may just squeeze between "New Ground" and "Manhunt"
in my own bottom five.
Shudder.
It did, however, have more humor that worked than, say, "Qpid" did. Though
I think the best bits were the less overt ones, for instance Dr. Crusher's
reaction to Mrs. Troi walking into her wedding. And Mrs. Troi saying "Okay,
start up the program, dear!" to the holodeck computer - whose voice is also
supplied by Majel Barrett. Those little touches were much appreciated.
Does anyone know if this episode was filmed before or after Roddenberry died?
If it was after, then some of the lines are eerily relevant for a show
featuring Majel Barrett. I wonder if it was intentional?
--
Michael Rawdon
raw...@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
- Dream, "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
David P. Murphy
>> TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
>>
>>Tim Lynch
>BAD TIM!
>BAD
>BAD
>BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Shame on you.
>
>I discredit your vote from the "TNG Babe/Dude" Awards.
>
>Nice guys finish last, Tim-boy.
>
>:)
>
actually, leo durocher was talking to reporters when he defended one
of his players --- faulted for lack of playing skill --- by commending his
hustle; he motioned to the NY Giants in the other dugout and said "see them?
they're nice guys, but they'll finish last. nice guys. finish last."
the critical period was missing in a paper's sports column the next day,
and leo had to spend the rest of his life denying that he thought manners
would prevent a team from winning.
ok
dpm
--
mur...@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090
When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before.
--- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
David P. Murphy
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>>>>*WHAT* were they thinking?
>>>>>
>>>>>tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
>>>>That certain sitcoms with smartass kids (yech) get better ratings than
>>>>TNG does and they better grab that audience.
>>>>
>>>>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori)
>>>I *really* hope that wasn't their motivation. I'd prefer to think they were
>>>all possessed.
>>As would I, but look at the evidence.
>Granted, but past Lwaxana shows also suggest that nobody who's ever been on
>staff has a real idea of what to *do* with her. This was probably a last-
>minute "oh, what the hell, let's try this" show. At least, I fervently hope
>so.
allow me to quote from Harlan Ellison's short story entitled
_"Repent, Harlequin!" said the TickTockMan_:
I don't care if the script is *good*, I need it by Thursday!
Atsushi Kanamori
You're missing my point. It's the *job* of a TV drama to convince me
that there's a problem worth my attention. I can always rationalize these
things, but when they devote more air time to somebody WHINING about a
problem rather than EXPERIENCING, or SOLVING the problem, that character
is going to lose my sympathy *very* quickly.
Patti Twigg
>
>(I DID like the Mr. Wolf bit... :-))
>--
I heard it as Mr. Woof. Just as funny, though. Even my daughter picked
up on it.
Patti Twigg
LORNA_PAYNE
> In article <1992Apr24....@cco.caltech.edu>, tly...@cco.caltech.edu
> (Timothy W. Lynch) posts a message from mne...@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
> (Mike Neylon):
>>
>> As stated before, the fault with this episode was the number of major
>> plots to follow. If they only keep 2 major plot ideas (of this
>> intensity...the Borg invading tends to take the whole episode), then
>> good episodes can result.
>
> Whatever happened to the days when the writers were skilled enough to
> keep a *single* *good* plot going for the length of the entire episode?
>
> Those, of course, were the "good old days" when the crew of the Enterprise
> actually DID "explore strange new worlds" and "seek out new life and new
> civilisations". Now it seems more like "thirtysomething" in space.
Actually, it would be *better* if it was "thirtysomething in space". At
least "thirtysomething" had multidimensional characters and great dialogue.
Since we already don't have plots, we have to have something. Oh, yeah--
"thirtysomething" also handled serialization really well. Why don't we have
Riker and Troi in a Gary/Melissa relationship?
>
> Mr. Sulu, raise thermal shields... :-)
>
--
---------------------------------------------------------
Lorna Payne
Certified Math Geek and Grammarian
---------------------------------------------------------
You are not Morg. You are not Eymorg. What are you?
---------------------------------------------------------
gary l. schroeder
>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>
>
Candidate? Hell, new champion.
>Oh, my Lord.
Well put.
>*WHAT* were they thinking?
I'll tell you what they were thinking: hey, guys! Everybody loves it
when Luxanna Troi appears on the show, huh? Yeah! Sure they do! Let's
give her a good one this season that involves Alexander somehow.
Y'know, just to show we haven't forgotten that he's on the ship! It'll
generate some great scenes between her and the staunch Worf, huh? It's
bound to be a laugh-riot hit, guaranteed to knock off "Trouble With
Tribbles" as the all time funniest Trek! Ha ha ha!
>
>I'm almost speechless at just how bad this was. It had one or two amusing
>moments to it, but very, very few. Yeesh.
I liked "You just sit here? That's it?", but not very much.
[synopsis deleted]
>There we are. Sound trite? It was. Now, on to slightly more substantive
>comments.
>
>There were precisely two lines that got a wholly positive reaction out of me
>in all this. The first was Troi's "on the other hand..." after hearing her
>mother was coming on board. The second was Picard's "Permission for an
>onboard wedding is granted, Number One. Nothing would please me more than to
>give away Mrs. Troi." [preferably to a pool full of piranha, no doubt]. The
>latter was this show's version of the "I'll inform the crew" line of "Qpid",
>really. This is not a promising parallel.
>
>I honestly don't know exactly what I can say about this. I'm outright
>shocked that this made it to the screen. Let's see...
Berman's supply of weed was of poor quality in the screening room,
that's how.
>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that. But with "Ethics", he
>began to look like a complete one-note character--and this clinched it.
Yeah, the "I hate ______" line is really wearing thin on me. What else
can he do?
>Alexander may be a very realistic child in some ways--in fact, given the
>initial counseling scene with Troi and remembering a few elements of my own
>upbringing, I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
>featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
>rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
>in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
>environment. It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
>parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
>to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
>be left to die. Please, no more.
Um, no. Unfortunately, parenting abord the Enterprise is not the type
of subject matter that I want to see explored. Are we watching "Star
Trek" or "Hill Street Blues" here? What the hell happened to "strange
new worlds"? I guess it got replaced with "trendy topics of the middle
aged".
>On the other hand, I've never defended Lwaxana, and I'm not about to start
>with this kind of example. In the past, she has been amazingly annoying and
>almost downright grotesque, and almost a halfway decent character in her last
>appearance, "Half a Life". Here, she went back to what was apparently the
>original plan for the character: a 24th-century Auntie Mame.
Absolutely. The write her character as though the viewing audience is
fond of her. Where did they get that idea?!
>In a word: bleah. The result of this transformation was to have a very
>sizable fraction of the show aimed at a level that would insult most
>eight-year-olds. I've never objected to programs aimed at kids, and have
>enjoyed them *if* there's also a hook to keep adults entertained and
>interested, e.g. Warner Bros. cartoons or nearly anything by the late Jim
>Henson [sigh]. This had *nothing* to keep me watching the holodeck
>sequences; in fact, it occasionally took an effort of will to *continue*
>watching. Lisa has a five-year-old cousin and a three-year-old cousin who
>watch TNG fairly regularly, and I expect they'll adore the holodeck scenes.
>They're welcome to them; I'd be happy never to see them again as long as
>I live.
Amen. The only bonus about those scenes was seeing the plaid mime get
booted by Worf, much as I wished I could have done when it first
appeared.
>
>None of the actors seemed to be particularly enthusiastic about the show. I
>got the impression no one's heart was in this; whether it was because they
>were all dead tired or because they'd read the script is something about
>which I can only speculate. But it led to probably one of the single most
>unsuspenseful suspense scenes I've ever seen: Geordi's "I'm working on
>it" while the ship's shaking itself to bits is delivered with all the energy
>of a squashed mollusc. (And BTW, most of the Deanna/Lwaxana scenes featured
>what could quite possibly be the single *worst* performance I've seen from
>Marina Sirtis, _including_ the "intense pain" sequences from "Encounter at
>Farpoint". Overacted and overdone--yech.)
>
>The plot, loosely speaking, bounced between absolute predictability and sheer
>nonsense. We all knew Worf and Alexander would reconcile, as would Deanna
>and Lwaxana, who we also knew wouldn't get married; there's the
>predictability. On the other hand, the deflector-dish technique used to
>destroy the asteroid goes against everything we've ever been told about how
>the dish operates, and the departure of the parasites in the end somehow
>magically brought about a fully-operative ship in the wink of an eye. (Yes,
>I know they paid lip service to it by "temporary repairs have been
>completed", but there was no sign of a single problem as soon as the
>parasites left, and if everything was reduced to goo [or as we termed it
>halfway through the show, "pixie dust droppings" :-) ], there's not much in
>the way of repairs you can DO immediately.)
But it was the oh, so bloody familiar Tacked On Menace. What gives with
these guys? What purpose did the parasite plot serve? How was it
related to the rest of the show? I was lost on this one.
>So, the numbers:
>
>Plot: 1. Pointless and boring.
>Plot Handling: 1. Uninteresting or jarring direction (the return of the
> jarring full-face closeups!), and nothing remotely interesting
> keeping the plot going.
>Characterization: 0. I saw no characters at all.
>
>TOTAL: 1, seeing as I'm such a generous soul. Yech.
>
>NEXT WEEK:
>
>Everyone's ideal woman is the prize of a treaty, and Picard is tempted to
>take her for himself rather than stop a war.
>
>Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
>BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
>INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
>UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
>"We're just supposed to sit here?"
> --Worf, in closing
>"Our thoughts exactly!"
> --us, just afterwards
>--
>Copyright 1992, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
--
--------------
Gary Schroeder
schr...@bnlux1.bnl.gov
Brookhaven National Laboratory "Home of the Big BNL Burger."
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr25.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>Definitely agreed on HaL, but Menage? I think I'd agree that it's substan-
>>tially better than CoL, but it's still likely to reside in my bottom 5. It
>>was pretty durned bad.
>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
Which, intriguingly enough, makes the list contain precisely one show for
each season. :-)
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
>Well, I can't say that I have much to add to that. I was going to quibble
>that there are certainly at least five Trek episodes worse than this, but
>now I'm not so sure. It may just squeeze between "New Ground" and "Manhunt"
>in my own bottom five.
Neither of which are even close to my bottom five. NG will probably be in
the lower half, but "Manhunt"'s one of the very few good comedy shows they've
ever done.
>It did, however, have more humor that worked than, say, "Qpid" did.
Maybe one extra line. MAYBE.
>Though
>I think the best bits were the less overt ones, for instance Dr. Crusher's
>reaction to Mrs. Troi walking into her wedding. And Mrs. Troi saying "Okay,
>start up the program, dear!" to the holodeck computer - whose voice is also
>supplied by Majel Barrett. Those little touches were much appreciated.
Ehhh.
>Does anyone know if this episode was filmed before or after Roddenberry died?
After. Long after. C'mon, Michael, think for a second--do you *really* think
there's a _six-month_ turnaround time for these shows? Especially given that
titles and rumours and convention reports are almost universally given about
a three-month lead time? And that the infamous RA interview in early
September was during the end of the filming of "The Game" and just before
filming started for "Unification"?
I rest my case. :-)
>If it was after, then some of the lines are eerily relevant for a show
>featuring Majel Barrett. I wonder if it was intentional?
I'm sure it was. That's the one speech in the entire show I could whole-
heartedly stomach; if it had actually meant anything in the greater context
of the show, that might have helped a bit.
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
First Asimov, then my grandfather. This has been a very long month.
Atsushi Kanamori
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr25.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>
>>>Definitely agreed on HaL, but Menage? I think I'd agree that it's substan-
>>>tially better than CoL, but it's still likely to reside in my bottom 5. It
>>>was pretty durned bad.
>
>>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
>
>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
Hmm... well, we've already agreed to disagree on MENAGE.
HOME SOIL *was* awful, but it doesn't strike me as a bottom 5 candidate. It's
easily my second least favorite season 1 episode to date, but it just
doesn't stand out enough from the routine stinker for me to take note.
>Which, intriguingly enough, makes the list contain precisely one show for
>each season. :-)
Mine's not so neat: two from season 5, at least one from season 1 --
and Q-PID/ROYALE are hanging around there somewhere :-)
Janis Maria Cortese
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr25.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>
>>>Definitely agreed on HaL, but Menage? I think I'd agree that it's substan-
>>>tially better than CoL, but it's still likely to reside in my bottom 5. It
>>>was pretty durned bad.
>
>>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
>
>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>
I gotta ask.
Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
all right.
I'm awaiting answers of the sort:
1) Wesley! EEEEEEEEEEWW!
2) Geez, it was just a big tittie show.
3) the ONE really bad line -- you know what I mean.
To me, these don't seem like valid reasons to hate a show with the venom
with which this one is hated.
I thought it was a nice retelling of "The Apple" with the right ending
this time. That episode was always a sore point with me -- nice happy
people kept alive and free from pain, and along comes Captain
You-Know-Who and blasts them out of the water because of some stupid
socially self-flaggelating idea that "MAN does not belong in Eden." He
blew the stupid snake up because he was OFFENDED by the way they lived
their lives? Since when . . .
*SIGH*
Rant off. I just liked "Justice" because they saw a nice, pleasant,
perfectly happy group of people kept in comfort and protected by
something else, and they left it the hell alone. It was like an
admission that you can be perfectly content and happy without living
life as an (majestic military march on) "ongoing struggle in the jungle
of this world, fighting to scrape every scrap of bread out of the earth
by the sweat of your brow."
I mean, what the hell's wrong with taking a vacation for forty years if
you can get away with it?
Regards,
Janis C.
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr27.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr25.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>
>>>>Definitely agreed on HaL, but Menage? I think I'd agree that it's substan-
>>>>tially better than CoL, but it's still likely to reside in my bottom 5. It
>>>>was pretty durned bad.
>>
>>>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>>>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
>>
>>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>>
>
>I gotta ask.
>
>Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
>all right.
Ye gods, where do I begin?
* 25 minutes of filler before the start of the episode.
* Digressions and distractions at every turn: the pointless "God ship"
menace and cardboard utopia society cluttering up a potentially
promising storyline.
* The most contrived, simplistic and one-sided treatment of the
PD/Rigid-Law issues I can possibly imagine.
* Lame acting on all sides.
I can probably mention more but I dissected this episode in detail in
my review a few weeks ago: I'll be happy to email you a copy.
>I'm awaiting answers of the sort:
>
>1) Wesley! EEEEEEEEEEWW!
Nope. I haven't hated Wesley since THE FIRST DUTY.
>2) Geez, it was just a big tittie show.
This *was* another point that offended me, although a minor one
in the context of this episode's MAJOR problems.
>3) the ONE really bad line -- you know what I mean.
Forgivable in isolation, but the rest of the script wasn't much better.
>I thought it was a nice retelling of "The Apple" with the right ending
>this time. That episode was always a sore point with me -- nice happy
>people kept alive and free from pain, and along comes Captain
>You-Know-Who and blasts them out of the water because of some stupid
>socially self-flaggelating idea that "MAN does not belong in Eden." He
>blew the stupid snake up because he was OFFENDED by the way they lived
>their lives? Since when . . .
>
>*SIGH*
>
>Rant off. I just liked "Justice" because they saw a nice, pleasant,
>perfectly happy group of people kept in comfort and protected by
>something else, and they left it the hell alone.
That's something to write an EPISODE about???
They tried to present a moral dillemma/issue story about laws and justice
and incompetence spewed out of *every* corner. I was embarrassed to be
caught watching it.
>
>I mean, what the hell's wrong with taking a vacation for forty years if
>you can get away with it?
For one thing, I doubt I'd survive the boredom that long.
Janis Maria Cortese
>In article <29FC757...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>
>>I gotta ask.
>>
>>Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
>>all right.
>
>Ye gods, where do I begin?
>
> * 25 minutes of filler before the start of the episode.
> * Digressions and distractions at every turn: the pointless "God ship"
> menace and cardboard utopia society cluttering up a potentially
> promising storyline.
The god ship and the utopia WERE the story. Wes was a minor annoyance,
an opportunity to see what Picard would do if he were given reason to
use force.
> * The most contrived, simplistic and one-sided treatment of the
> PD/Rigid-Law issues I can possibly imagine.
> * Lame acting on all sides.
Maybe the people on the planet were a bit naive, but I wasn't expecting
them to be anything else.
>>I'm awaiting answers of the sort:
>>
>>1) Wesley! EEEEEEEEEEWW!
>
>Nope. I haven't hated Wesley since THE FIRST DUTY.
>
>>2) Geez, it was just a big tittie show.
>
>This *was* another point that offended me, although a minor one
>in the context of this episode's MAJOR problems.
Why did it offend you? I didn't see a problem with it. You expect them
to wear nun's habits in a subtropical area?
>>3) the ONE really bad line -- you know what I mean.
>
>Forgivable in isolation, but the rest of the script wasn't much better.
>
>>I thought it was a nice retelling of "The Apple" with the right ending
>>this time. That episode was always a sore point with me -- nice happy
>>people kept alive and free from pain, and along comes Captain
>>You-Know-Who and blasts them out of the water because of some stupid
>>socially self-flaggelating idea that "MAN does not belong in Eden." He
>>blew the stupid snake up because he was OFFENDED by the way they lived
>>their lives? Since when . . .
>>
>>*SIGH*
>>
>>Rant off. I just liked "Justice" because they saw a nice, pleasant,
>>perfectly happy group of people kept in comfort and protected by
>>something else, and they left it the hell alone.
>
>That's something to write an EPISODE about???
Evidently the original writers for the original series thought that a
treatment of a Utopian society was enough for an episode. Why is it not
enough here?
>They tried to present a moral dillemma/issue story about laws and justice
>and incompetence spewed out of *every* corner. I was embarrassed to be
>caught watching it.
It set the tone for the rest of the series -- here, they were NOT
going to pay mere lip service to the Prime Directive.
In the old show, the damned thing was discarded whenever it was
convenient. I thought it nice that they started right out early in the
first season with a show which illustrated that Picard was NOT Kirk --
that when presented with the opportunity to boink his brains out, he
would keep his mind on his work, that he would blather about man being
thrust from the garden, that they would actually attempt to ADHERE to
the stupid directive in the first place instead of bringing it up for
meaningless arguments.
>>I mean, what the hell's wrong with taking a vacation for forty years if
>>you can get away with it?
>
>For one thing, I doubt I'd survive the boredom that long.
Boredom? I could think of a million things that I'd like to do if I
didn't have to worry about making money while I was doing it. I'm not
talking about lazing my days away in a Barcalounger. I'm talking about
having all of my most basic needs met, and I'll take it from there.
>. . . . .
>: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
>::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
>------------ -------------------------- -------------------.------
>TNG Lifelines: From "Yesterday's Enterprise" To "Cost of Living" --
> [Episode unavailable for comment. Homocide teams are investigating.]
What the HELL is this thing?
Regards,
Janis C.
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr27....@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <29FC757...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>>
>>>I gotta ask.
>>>
>>>Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
>>>all right.
>>
>>Ye gods, where do I begin?
>>
>> * 25 minutes of filler before the start of the episode.
>> * Digressions and distractions at every turn: the pointless "God ship"
>> menace and cardboard utopia society cluttering up a potentially
>> promising storyline.
>
>The god ship and the utopia WERE the story. Wes was a minor annoyance,
>an opportunity to see what Picard would do if he were given reason to
>use force.
I disagree. The title of the episode *is* JUSTICE, after all, not
THE ENTERPRISE MEETS THE GOD FROM HELL. The intent of the episode
was to explore issues about death penalties, laws and interference --
which it did miserably. The god ship and utopia were filler and
had no inherent entertainment value that I could see.
>> * The most contrived, simplistic and one-sided treatment of the
>> PD/Rigid-Law issues I can possibly imagine.
>> * Lame acting on all sides.
>
>Maybe the people on the planet were a bit naive, but I wasn't expecting
>them to be anything else.
Stewart, Gates and Wheaton also fell short.
>>
>>This *was* another point that offended me, although a minor one
>>in the context of this episode's MAJOR problems.
>
>Why did it offend you? I didn't see a problem with it. You expect them
>to wear nun's habits in a subtropical area?
Mostly because it was gratuitous talk about sex, which I can get by
tuning into any low-grade TV show on the air. I expect something more
interesting when I tune in TNG.
>>That's something to write an EPISODE about???
>
>Evidently the original writers for the original series thought that a
>treatment of a Utopian society was enough for an episode. Why is it not
>enough here?
There was no need for a Utopian society in JUSTICE. The same issues could
have been covered without. It was just lazy writing.
>>They tried to present a moral dillemma/issue story about laws and justice
>>and incompetence spewed out of *every* corner. I was embarrassed to be
>>caught watching it.
>
>It set the tone for the rest of the series -- here, they were NOT
>going to pay mere lip service to the Prime Directive.
>
>In the old show, the damned thing was discarded whenever it was
>convenient. I thought it nice that they started right out early in the
>first season with a show which illustrated that Picard was NOT Kirk --
>that when presented with the opportunity to boink his brains out, he
>would keep his mind on his work, that he would blather about man being
>thrust from the garden, that they would actually attempt to ADHERE to
>the stupid directive in the first place instead of bringing it up for
>meaningless arguments.
Except that the PD didn't apply in any reasonable sense in this situation.
The situation was set up in such absurd black-and-white terms, the
entire "moral dillemma" was a paper tiger.
54626-BonhamM(DR2020)214
|> >>I hope this means you've joined the "kill Alexander" club --
|>
|> Time for a new newsgroup?
|>
|> How about alt.alexander.kill.inviscerate.destroy?
|>
|> Any other ideas?
|>
How about:
alt.wesley.kill.maim.fold.spindle.mutilate?
--
-----------------------------
Margaret H. Bonham | "Good tea. Nice House." -- Lt. Cmdr Worf
mammoth!ml...@druhi.att.com |----------------------------------------------
ml...@drutx.ATT.COM | Disclaimer: As God as my witness, I thought
----------------------------- turkeys could fly. (WKRP in Cinncinatti)
Janis Maria Cortese
>In article <29FC8D0...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>>>This *was* another point that offended me, although a minor one
>>>in the context of this episode's MAJOR problems.
>>
>>Why did it offend you? I didn't see a problem with it. You expect them
>>to wear nun's habits in a subtropical area?
>
>Mostly because it was gratuitous talk about sex, which I can get by
>tuning into any low-grade TV show on the air. I expect something more
>interesting when I tune in TNG.
When was there gratuitous talk about sex? They had different customs,
which made the landing party squirm. Simple, and certainly no reason to
blow your stack about an entire episode.
And if you think that gratuitous TALK is bad, try tuning into MTV and
you'll see more than talk.
I still like the episode. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.
Regards,
Janis C.
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr27....@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <29FC8D0...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>
>>>>This *was* another point that offended me, although a minor one
>>>>in the context of this episode's MAJOR problems.
>>>
>>>Why did it offend you? I didn't see a problem with it. You expect them
>>>to wear nun's habits in a subtropical area?
>>
>>Mostly because it was gratuitous talk about sex, which I can get by
>>tuning into any low-grade TV show on the air. I expect something more
>>interesting when I tune in TNG.
>
>When was there gratuitous talk about sex?
Between Worf and Riker, for one.
For another, pretty much the whole exchange between the Edo and the landing
party.
>Simple, and certainly no reason to
>blow your stack about an entire episode.
And as I said, that was only one of a DOZEN gripes.
>And if you think that gratuitous TALK is bad, try tuning into MTV and
>you'll see more than talk.
Thank you, no.
>I still like the episode. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.
I've never seen anyone do otherwise.
. . . . .
: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
------------ -------------------------- -------------------.------
Kanamori's Episode Ratings: (last episode rated: "Cost of Living" --
[Episode unavailable for comment. Homocide teams are investigating.])
Amos Yung
>In article <291-JN...@smylex.UUCP> jl...@smylex.UUCP (Jeff Lee) writes:
>
>TNG should be a butt-kicking sci-fi show that explores on the screen
>strange new worlds as well as exploring characters whom the viewers
>identify with. TNG currently is a predictable, mediocre show that happens
>to carry a name that we all know and love, that is by and large
>uninteresting (though it has had its gems).
>
TOS never did in any way fascinate me simply by being a place that no
humans had been before. It is the *story* that will do the job. So whether
the alien of the week is a race that the federation had never met doesn't
mean a squatt to me. If they are interesting, they can be good old humans
for all I care.
Secondly, if TNG is turning into such a mediocre show. DON'T WATCH IT.
This is the strongest message you can send to the producer to tell them
to shape up. If you watch it every week only becasue it got Star Trek
stamp on it, you have only yourself to blame that TNG doesn't try to
improve. Afterall, you are not giving them any incentives to improve
upon themselves.
I, on the other hand, watch TNG only because I think it is one of the
highest quality show on TV (outdone TOS in most of the ways). IF one
day I find it as unwatchable as some of you out there, I will stop
watching. No need to whine, in my opinion.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amos Yung | Macintosh Jr.: The power to crush the other kid.
yu...@r-node.gts.org|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>
>>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
>
>Candidate? Hell, new champion.
Finally, someone else who puts COST in its proper place. Not someone
I usually agree with, but I'll take any company here.
>I'll tell you what they were thinking: hey, guys! Everybody loves it
>when Luxanna Troi appears on the show, huh? Yeah! Sure they do! Let's
>give her a good one this season that involves Alexander somehow.
>Y'know, just to show we haven't forgotten that he's on the ship!
Exactly. It was a gratuitous display of the two most awful, badly
conceived, bad written, badly acted characters in all of Star Trek.
>>I'm almost speechless at just how bad this was. It had one or two amusing
>>moments to it, but very, very few. Yeesh.
>
>I liked "You just sit here? That's it?", but not very much.
I don't understand the appeal of that line. I really don't.
>>Okay. I defended Alexander a fair amount when he appeared in his first
>>significant role, "New Ground". I still believe that. But with "Ethics",
>>he
>>began to look like a complete one-note character--and this clinched it.
>
>Yeah, the "I hate ______" line is really wearing thin on me. What else
>can he do?
You saw ETHICS, right? Do you really need any more evidence about his
range?
>>Alexander may be a very realistic child in some ways--in fact, given the
>>initial counseling scene with Troi and remembering a few elements of my own
>>upbringing, I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
>>featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
>>rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
>>in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
>>environment. It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
>>parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
>>to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
>>be left to die. Please, no more.
>
>Um, no. Unfortunately, parenting abord the Enterprise is not the type
>of subject matter that I want to see explored.
Well, here I disagree. I don't mind the *idea* of a father-son thread on
the Enterprise (I'm actually starting to enjoy the Picard-Wes angle myself)
but the handling of *this* particular one has been an unmitigated fiasco
from the start.
Since Klingons obviously age faster than humans (Alexander states his
birthdate as somewhere in the middle of season 3, which makes him only
two years old), to be consistent, they'd have to recast the role
every once in a while to keep with the Klingon growth pattern.
So if they bring him back as a teenager next season, who has *matured*
a bit and can handle problems in a more intelligent fashion than whining
and throwing tantrums, it just might work. Also, an older actor is bound
to perform better. I'd put in a vote for the actor who played Timothy
in HERO WORSHIP. He can act; his background is rooted in drama rather
than comedy; he and Bonsall look *very* similar from the eyes downward,
and from what I've seen, they appear to have similar temperaments;
and best of all, loud, high-pitched yelling is definitely not his
style (:-)
Given Dorn's comments, however, this seems unlikely to happen.
>>On the other hand, I've never defended Lwaxana, and I'm not about to start
>>with this kind of example. In the past, she has been amazingly annoying and
>>almost downright grotesque, and almost a halfway decent character in her last
>>appearance, "Half a Life". Here, she went back to what was apparently the
>>original plan for the character: a 24th-century Auntie Mame.
>
>Absolutely. The write her character as though the viewing audience is
>fond of her. Where did they get that idea?!
Well <blush>, from people like me, I guess. I liked Lwaxana at first, but
not any more.
>But it was the oh, so bloody familiar Tacked On Menace. What gives with
>these guys? What purpose did the parasite plot serve? How was it
>related to the rest of the show? I was lost on this one.
It seems to be a Paramount rule that you have to some sort of physical
danger in every episode. But it did serve a purpose: it kept Lwaxana
and Alexander from getting even *more* airtime!
Atsushi Kanamori
>In article <1992Apr26....@magnusson.uucp>
>ja...@magnusson.uucp (Janus International Inc.) writes:
>>In article <291-JN...@smylex.UUCP> jl...@smylex.UUCP (Jeff Lee) writes:
>>
>>TNG should be a butt-kicking sci-fi show that explores on the screen
>>strange new worlds as well as exploring characters whom the viewers
>>identify with. TNG currently is a predictable, mediocre show that happens
>>to carry a name that we all know and love, that is by and large
>>uninteresting (though it has had its gems).
>>
>First of all, I never buy into this "explore strange new world" crap.
>TOS never did in any way fascinate me simply by being a place that no
>humans had been before. It is the *story* that will do the job.
This is a good point, and it's one reason why I've never
bandwagoned on the "let's throw out the human interest stories
and get back to science fiction" camp. The "let's find out what's
around the corner" mentality can create some suspense for a while,
but such a show would, IMO, get boring very quickly.
>So whether
>the alien of the week is a race that the federation had never met doesn't
>mean a squatt to me. If they are interesting, they can be good old humans
>for all I care.
Agreed.
>Secondly, if TNG is turning into such a mediocre show. DON'T WATCH IT.
>This is the strongest message you can send to the producer to tell them
>to shape up. If you watch it every week only becasue it got Star Trek
>stamp on it, you have only yourself to blame that TNG doesn't try to
>improve. Afterall, you are not giving them any incentives to improve
>upon themselves.
This is true only if you're a Nielsen monitor. I'm not.
>I, on the other hand, watch TNG only because I think it is one of the
>highest quality show on TV (outdone TOS in most of the ways).
I think it's outdone TOS in *some* ways, but not all (or "most").
It's becoming harder and harder to compare the two, especially since
one of them is still in progress and that alters one's perpective.
I could probably make a more realistic appraisal 30 years after both
series' cancellation (not that I'd want to that late in the game.)
jjf...@skcla.monsanto.com
It was so awful that it wasn't re-run that season around here.
Erik Jones
>I gotta ask.
> Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
>all right.
> I'm awaiting answers of the sort:
> 1) Wesley! EEEEEEEEEEWW!
> 2) Geez, it was just a big tittie show.
> 3) the ONE really bad line -- you know what I mean.
> To me, these don't seem like valid reasons to hate a show with the venom
>with which this one is hated.
Tonight, I get to see Justice and Lonely Among Us for the first
time. These are the only two episodes I have not yet seen, and
I look forward to at least filling in my two small gaps. After
I see justice with a fresh, five-season face, I will let you
know what I think of it.
Erik Jones
Timothy W. Lynch
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>I'm almost speechless at just how bad this was. It had one or two amusing
>>moments to it, but very, very few. Yeesh.
>I liked "You just sit here? That's it?", but not very much.
That's not one of them.
>>Alexander may be a very realistic child in some ways--in fact, given the
>>initial counseling scene with Troi and remembering a few elements of my own
>>upbringing, I know he is--but knowing that every five minutes in a show
>>featuring him you'll have an "I hate my father" or an "All he cares about is
>>rules/honor" or an abominably bad display of laughing or crying (the latter
>>in "Ethics", the former here) makes for an *extremely* unpleasant watching
>>environment. It's a pity, because there really *are* issues involving both
>>parenting on the Enterprise and Worf's fatherhood in general that could stand
>>to be addressed, and could be very interesting. But this is old, and should
>>be left to die. Please, no more.
>Um, no. Unfortunately, parenting abord the Enterprise is not the type
>of subject matter that I want to see explored.
Well, that's a matter of taste. There are very few issues I think are
absolutely unsuited to a proper treatment in Trek. I think parenting aboard
the ship could be a very *good* topic, if it's done right. So far, the Worf/
Alexander thread has an exceedingly low (though nonzero) average.
>>On the other hand, I've never defended Lwaxana, and I'm not about to start
>>with this kind of example. In the past, she has been amazingly annoying and
>>almost downright grotesque, and almost a halfway decent character in her last
>>appearance, "Half a Life". Here, she went back to what was apparently the
>>original plan for the character: a 24th-century Auntie Mame.
>Absolutely. The write her character as though the viewing audience is
>fond of her. Where did they get that idea?!
From what I've heard from friends who regularly attend cons, she *is* a
popular character in some fan groups. I've no idea why.
Tim Lynch (Cornell's first Astronomy B.A.; one of many Caltech grad students)
BITNET: tlynch@citjuliet
INTERNET: tly...@juliet.caltech.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!tlynch%juliet.ca...@hamlet.caltech.edu
Timothy W. Lynch
cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Apr27.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>>>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.)
>>
>>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>I gotta ask.
Ask away...
>Why does everyone hate "Justice" so much? I thought it was perfectly
>all right.
>I'm awaiting answers of the sort:
>1) Wesley! EEEEEEEEEEWW!
>2) Geez, it was just a big tittie show.
>3) the ONE really bad line -- you know what I mean.
Very few of those were factors for me. I felt it was dull, preachy, slow-
running, had the subtlety of a sledgehammer on issues demanding much more
interesting treatments, and tried to cover all that up by being "just a
big tittie show". It had fairly poor acting from nearly everyone, and
had serious problems so far as the Prime Directive is concerned.
I hope that helps. :-)
>I thought it was a nice retelling of "The Apple" with the right ending
>this time.
I've only seen "The Apple" once to the best of my memory--and have no intention
of seeing it again any time soon. It may well be a retelling of TA, but since
I thought TA was one of TOS's worst offerings, that's not a very good idea.
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
cor...@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
(back further is Atsushi, then Janis again)
>>>Rant off. I just liked "Justice" because they saw a nice, pleasant,
>>>perfectly happy group of people kept in comfort and protected by
>>>something else, and they left it the hell alone.
>>
>>That's something to write an EPISODE about???
>Evidently the original writers for the original series thought that a
>treatment of a Utopian society was enough for an episode. Why is it not
>enough here?
It wasn't enough then either. I thought "The Apple" was pretty poor, too.
>>They tried to present a moral dillemma/issue story about laws and justice
>>and incompetence spewed out of *every* corner. I was embarrassed to be
>>caught watching it.
>It set the tone for the rest of the series -- here, they were NOT
>going to pay mere lip service to the Prime Directive.
But they DID, here. At least give me something like "The Masterpiece Society",
where the issues are more foggy and we see people *agonizing* over their
decision and its possible consequences. Hell, even give me something like
"Symbiosis", which despite a shipload of other problems managed to use the PD
to advantage. This had some token angst about it and then "oh, well, we'll
break it anyway, and *never mention it again*."
In general, TNG has been much more interesting wrt the PD than TOS has, I
agree. I completely disagree that this show helped at all.
Tim Lynch
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr27.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>Hmm... well, we've already agreed to disagree on MENAGE.
Yep. You're wrong again. ;-)
>HOME SOIL *was* awful, but it doesn't strike me as a bottom 5 candidate. It's
>easily my second least favorite season 1 episode to date, but it just
>doesn't stand out enough from the routine stinker for me to take note.
Oh, it did for me. "Justice", at least, had the merit that you could always
turn the sound down, ignore the story, and enjoy the...er...scenery. "Home
Soil" had an even *less* capable set of guest stars (quite possibly among
the worst the series ever had), miserable performances from the regulars,
and basically nothing interesting about the story.
Tim Lynch
Tom Kimball
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr25.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>
>>Your bottom 5 is getting crowded, Tim: it already contains ROYALE, Q-PID,
>>COST, JUSTICE (and I think you mentioned HOME SOIL as another candidate.) :-)
>
>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>
You forgot the worst of all! "Manhunt"
--
Tom Kimball t...@europa.lonestar.org tom%eur...@egsner.cirr.com
Atsushi Kanamori
>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr27.2...@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>
>>>No, no. "Justice" *was* in the bottom 5 for a while, but it's been bumped.
>>>As of the end of season 4, I believe the list was "The Royale", "Qpid",
>>>"Menage a Troi", "Home Soil", and "Justice", in order. "Cost of Living"
>>>now inserts itself between "The Royale" and "Qpid".
>
>>Hmm... well, we've already agreed to disagree on MENAGE.
>
>Yep. You're wrong again. ;-)
>
>>HOME SOIL *was* awful, but it doesn't strike me as a bottom 5 candidate. It's
>>easily my second least favorite season 1 episode to date, but it just
>>doesn't stand out enough from the routine stinker for me to take note.
>
>Oh, it did for me. "Justice", at least, had the merit that you could always
>turn the sound down, ignore the story, and enjoy the...er...scenery.
I hope you're not talking about the Edo. Blech...
>"Home Soil" had an even *less* capable set of guest stars (quite possibly
>among
>the worst the series ever had), miserable performances from the regulars,
I don't know about *that*. Given the absolutely horrid script, I decided
not to try judging the acting at all. But maybe you spotted something
that I didn't.
>and basically nothing interesting about the story.
This much is true.
. . . . .
: : : :. : : :....: : . ::.: . ..: : .. : : .:
::::::::::.: :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.::
------------ -------------------------- -------------------.------
Kanamori's Episode Ratings: (last episode rated: "Cost of Living" --
[Episode unavailable for comment. Homocide teams are investigating.])
Timothy W. Lynch
>In article <1992Apr29....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>kana...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>>HOME SOIL *was* awful, but it doesn't strike me as a bottom 5 candidate.
>>>It's easily my second least favorite season 1 episode to date, but it just
>>>doesn't stand out enough from the routine stinker for me to take note.
>>
>>Oh, it did for me. "Justice", at least, had the merit that you could always
>>turn the sound down, ignore the story, and enjoy the...er...scenery.
>I hope you're not talking about the Edo. Blech...
What *else* could I possibly be talking about? Certainly not the set.
(We must also remember that I was 17 when "Justice" first aired; ze hormones,
zey run a bit hiiigh, yes? :-) )
>>"Home Soil" had an even *less* capable set of guest stars (quite possibly
>>among the worst the series ever had), miserable performances from the
>>regulars,
>I don't know about *that*.
I do.
>Given the absolutely horrid script, I decided
>not to try judging the acting at all. But maybe you spotted something
>that I didn't.
I don't know if I "spotted" much of anything. But rarely does someone's
performance have me cringing throughout the entire show. These all did,
at least on the guest side.
Tim Lynch
jef...@pathos.berkeley.edu
>In article <1992Apr23....@cco.caltech.edu> tly...@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>WARNING: The following post contains critical spoiler information concerning
>>this week's TNG offering, "Cost of Living". Those not wishing to experience
>>the cost of spoilers should remain clear at this time.
>>
>>We have a new candidate for the bottom five list. It was that bad.
>
>Candidate? Hell, new champion.
>
>
I for one kind of liked it. It was Very amusing - and weren't we all just
talking about how nice humorous shows are? It was also very tongue-in-cheek,
I thought. Sort of a "come on, don't take this too seriously" show.
>I'll tell you what they were thinking: hey, guys! Everybody loves it
>when Luxanna Troi appears on the show, huh? Yeah! Sure they do! Let's
>give her a good one this season that involves Alexander somehow.
I realize you're being sarcastic, but I like Luxanna. At least she has some
life, and in this episode she's a real Auntie Mame character.
>Y'know, just to show we haven't forgotten that he's on the ship! It'll
>generate some great scenes between her and the staunch Worf, huh? It's
>bound to be a laugh-riot hit, guaranteed to knock off "Trouble With
>Tribbles" as the all time funniest Trek! Ha ha ha!
>
>
>>I'm almost speechless at just how bad this was. It had one or two amusing
>>moments to it, but very, very few. Yeesh.
>
>I liked "You just sit here? That's it?", but not very much.
>
And how about Luxanna's "Don't they give you anything to wear except those
drab uniforms?" and earlier, when talking about influencing Alexander, some-
thing about "I exposed you to a lot of exotic things and you still turned
out fairly dull." Then also to Troi, "Where DID you get your pedestrian
genes?"
"Mr. Woof," though, was the greatest. "Grrrr. It's Worf, Ma'am."
Oh, and Deanna's mocking of the "Heir to the third house of Betazed" lines
was a hoot too.
Come on people, y'all are the same ones who are complaining about the
"Gee, the Enterprise faces complete destruction when they meet an unknown
alien force of unimaginable power" episodes we've seen dozens of over the
years.
________
Jeffski.
________
Siva Subramaniam
What about the episode Haven? Isn't that one of the bottom
five.
Timothy W. Lynch
>I for one kind of liked it. It was Very amusing - and weren't we all just
>talking about how nice humorous shows are?
Yep. Pity this wasn't one. :-)
Tim Lynch