ski goggles
Joseph John Ford
We're planning to go skiing in Utah (Park City) in two weeks as advanced
beginners or beginners. My question is how advisable/necessary are goggles
and what kind of weather conditions are they really needed in? (Pardon teh
grammer and spelling.) How good (read expensive) do they have to be to
do any good or will just any pair be fine? I don't want 2 out of 4 days of
skiing ruined due to weather when a pair of goggles could have saved it, but
since we don't ski much, I don't want to spend over $100 on something that's
rarely used and not really helpful. Also, my wife and I both wear glasses
and how does that affect the decision to get them and what kind to get.
Since most of you are probably not interested in the answers, I summarize to
those who request it by e-mail - unless there are a lot of requests.
Joseph J. Ford, Ph.D. jf...@bcm.tmc.edu
Baylor College of Medicine
These opinions are mine since Baylor refused to exercise their option on them.
George Robbins
>
> We're planning to go skiing in Utah (Park City) in two weeks as advanced
> beginners or beginners. My question is how advisable/necessary are goggles
> and what kind of weather conditions are they really needed in? (Pardon teh
> grammer and spelling.) How good (read expensive) do they have to be to
> do any good or will just any pair be fine?
Park City is at relativly high altitude (~6000-10000 ft) so you should definitly
have either goggles or UV-blocking sunglasses. Since you wear glasses, you're
pretty much stuck with the goggles. Just about any goggles will work, but you
may find that some brands/models have less tendency to fog up or pay more
attention to clearance for glasses or frames.
If you're careful about storage and shipping, they should last a long time.
While you may not need them for casual skiing at the local area, they're nice
with you get a spell of nasty weather or glaring sun.
On the other hand, goggles can be a pain, tend to fog up at the wrong moments
and are just another piece of hardware to recover after a "yard sale" type fall.
> ... I don't want 2 out of 4 days of
> skiing ruined due to weather when a pair of goggles could have saved it, but
> since we don't ski much, I don't want to spend over $100 on something that's
> rarely used and not really helpful.
In a pinch, goggles are often available in the lost+found pile at the ski lodge
or base cafeteria. They're not screwed on and people don't notice they've left
them until it's too late to be worth bothering about. Just ask if there's a
pair you can "borrow"... Failing that, there are several shops within the base
lodge complex at Park City that sell goggles, plus several more places on the
main drag and "downtown".
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing: domain: g...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department phone: 215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
d...@inmet.inmet.com
> Park City is at relativly high altitude (~6000-10000 ft) so you should
> definitly have either goggles or UV-blocking sunglasses. Since you wear
> glasses, you're pretty much stuck with the goggles.
Unless you already own a pair of prescription sunglasses!
Lots of skiers swear by goggles, but I detest them. Goggles are *much*
more likely to fog up than regular glasses. Unless you spend a lot of
money, goggles worn over glasses are essentially certain to fog up, and
uncomfortable to boot.
Goggles are essential when the snow is so deep that it is swirling around
your head, but a beginning skier is unlikely to tackle this kind of stuff.
They are also essential when you are going at racing speeds, or so I am
told -- I have never skied that fast, and have no desire to do so. They
are probably essential when it is *really* cold. However, I have skied at
-20 (F) perfectly happily with glasses only -- they protect your eyes from
the wind pretty well. If your eyes are ultra-sensitive, you may need goggles
to protect them from side-light. However, I have spent full days on
high-altitude glaciers in the summer wearing sunglasses and baseball cap,
and suffered no ill effects.
I have a strong suspicion that, like so many other apects of skiwear,
goggles are worn largely in imitation of racers, and because people conclude
that they are necessary before they ever try less exotic alternatives.
If you choose sunglasses over goggles, I recommend using the darkest glasses
you can find. Glasses that block 85% of the light are marginal. Fortunately,
most reputable modern sunglasses block essentially all UV, so that shouldn't
be an issue. If your regular glasses are made of glass (which blocks UV
and doesn't scratch) but you have no prescription sunglasses, you might
consider clip-on shades -- much cheaper than prescription glasses or goggles.
However, beware of anything that blocks visible sunlight without blocking
UV -- a very hazardous combination. A hat with a brim is always helpful.
- Tony Flanders
daf%in...@uunet.uu.net
sys...@cc.nu.oz.au
> If you choose sunglasses over goggles, I recommend using the darkest glasses
> you can find. Glasses that block 85% of the light are marginal. Fortunately,
> most reputable modern sunglasses block essentially all UV, so that shouldn't
> be an issue. If your regular glasses are made of glass (which blocks UV
Blocks *some* UV! According to a report in a local consumer magazine,
"glass blocks some UVB, but not necessarily enough to provide your eyes
with adequate protection over long periods of time".
It goes on to say that the glass used to make car windscreens will transmit
about one thirteenth of the UVB. Glass used to make prescription lenses can
vary tremendously, although the majority of glass and plastic lenses provide
adequate protection. You can specifically request your optometrist to make
the lenses from low-transmittance glass. Plastic lenses can also be coated
with a colourless film called UV Solar Guard or UV 400. As well as UVB, this
will block at least 95% of UVA
In snow, you will still need something to cut down the visible light level.
> However, beware of anything that blocks visible sunlight without blocking
> UV -- a very hazardous combination.
And worth emphasis!
> A hat with a brim is always helpful.
A wide-brimmed hat will cut down UV exposure to the eyes by 50%. In snow,
this proportion may be less.
--
David Morrison, Manager, Networks and Comms, Uni of Newcastle, Australia
sys...@cc.newcastle.edu.au or (VAX PSI) psi%0505249626002::sysnet
Phone: +61 49 215397 Fax: +61 49 ??????
Jill C. Arnson
> I have a strong suspicion that, like so many other apects of skiwear,
> goggles are worn largely in imitation of racers, and because people conclude
> that they are necessary before they ever try less exotic alternatives.
>
- Sounds like you have never skied when it is snowing hard.
Glasses are a joke in that situation. Also, when the lighting is very
flat, goggles are a great help.
- When it is extremely cold, goggles give your face extra
protection. ESPECIALLY from frostbite. (Hey, it was -34 at Berthod Pass on
New Years weekend and the only thing cold were my fingers!)
- If I'm tree skiing, goggles are a must. Glasses give very little
protection as well as the "string" generally on them can be dangerous. You
only have 2 eyes, and they have to last you the rest of your life.
--
jill c. arnson AT&T Bell Labs, Denver; (303)538-4800
j...@druwa.att.com or att!(druco/drutx)!druwa!jca
*** "When you climb high, remember that the beauty you see is only an
illusion created by G-d to keep your sanity."
Richard Meesters
>
> We're planning to go skiing in Utah (Park City) in two weeks as advanced
> beginners or beginners. My question is how advisable/necessary are goggles
> and what kind of weather conditions are they really needed in? (Pardon teh
> grammer and spelling.) How good (read expensive) do they have to be to
> do any good or will just any pair be fine? I don't want 2 out of 4 days of
> skiing ruined due to weather when a pair of goggles could have saved it, but
> since we don't ski much, I don't want to spend over $100 on something that's
> rarely used and not really helpful. Also, my wife and I both wear glasses
> and how does that affect the decision to get them and what kind to get.
> Since most of you are probably not interested in the answers, I summarize to
> those who request it by e-mail - unless there are a lot of requests.
Goggles are effective in many weather conditions, particularly when it's
snowing/raining. They tend to be better at keeping particles out of your eyes
than goggles since they form a seal around the entire eye area. Depending on
the tint used, they can also help out with flat light conditions. I usually
ski with both my goggles and my sunglasses nearby. Some people can't stand
the feeling of wind over their eyes (esp cold wind) and wear goggles in all
conditions.
Most manufacturers have models that fit over glasses. When I was wearing
glasses to ski (as opposed to contacts) I found that you had to try different
styles of OTG (over the glasses) goggles to see which ones fit best with your
frames. Double or Triple (triflex) lenses tend to work best as the dead
air space between the lenses means less chance of fogging up. Get some anti
fog coating for your glasses as they can also fog up as you are skiing (this
can happen with or without goggles).
As far as expense goes, if you're talking about $100 per person you'll have no
trouble whatsoever. Good quality goggles (without the _special_ toys) run
about $60 to $70 canadian (last time I looked), which should translate into
$45 to $60 american (But, I could be wrong). Best bet is to go to a shop
where you can look out a window onto a snow covered surface and see how well
the goggle brings out the detail in the surrounding area. Also look for
comfort, since you may well be wearing them most of the day.
If you take good care of them, they'll last you a number of years. Toss them
around carelessly, and they may not last out the week.
Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A Meesters |
Technical Support Specialist | Insert std.logo here
AT&T Canada |
| "Waste is a terrible thing
ATTMAIL: ....attmail!rmeesters | to mind...clean up your act"
UUCP: ...att!attcan!ram |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon Badian
>
>> I have a strong suspicion that, like so many other apects of skiwear,
>> goggles are worn largely in imitation of racers, and because people conclude
>> that they are necessary before they ever try less exotic alternatives.
>>
Add to the list:
If you wear contacts, and it is cold, they are essential.
My contacts dry out much too fast, even with sunglasses if it
is cold. Goggles vastly reduce the drying air blowing by my
contacts.
When you start skiing faster, you create your own windchill
and goggles help more than glasses.
I know quite few people who don't like to ski with goggles. I would
rather wear sunglasses myself. But there are times when goggles are
absolutely required. As Jill said, lots of snow, extreme cold and trees
are three pretty good reasons. Bad light conditions are another, but
there are times when the light is so flat, nothing does much good.
Sharon Badian
att!druhi!seb1
Dale Gold
> more likely to fog up than regular glasses. Unless you spend a lot of
> money, goggles worn over glasses are essentially certain to fog up, and
> uncomfortable to boot.
> If your eyes are ultra-sensitive, you may need goggles
> to protect them from side-light.
It's easy to make little side flaps for your glasses, too. Just cut a
couple of slots in a bit of cardboard or plastic, and slide them over the
earpieces of the glasses. I think you can buy these things, too, if you
need to have more brand names plastered all over your gear. :-)
I can't imagine wearing goggles over glasses, as I tend to fog up my
goggles even on a really cold day.
Eugene N. Miya
Years ago, I was skiing at Snow Valley with my sister. I had a new
set of skis and we had a pretty good storm. It was blowing, and dropping
heavy wet snow. I only had a set of glasses and I wanted to go get
a set of goggles on the way down the first run. I was a beginner and
also had a set of skis with bindings set just a little too tight.
The lack of visibility, etc. skis under snow, I crashed and twisted the
left leg pretty bad tearing the cartilage. I waited two years and
fortunately they developed arthoscopic surgery in that time. Talked to a lot
of people (pre- and post-).
To this day, I have a bad left knee which affects my climbing, my skiing
(I just small brace, it's enough), and sometimes even turning in bed.
A good set of goggles means double lenses, I also get polaroid (tm)
lenses and prefer a yellow tint for cloudy days. (Not cheap.)
The anti fog cloth helps. Nothing's perfect. I don't go as far those
Scott goggles with fans, but I know other netters have (this has all been
discussed before).
Anyways, the day after that crash, I left for a week in Alta.
Powder is very forgiving.
--e. nobuo miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
burma shave
In article <345700018@inmet> d...@inmet.inmet.com writes:
>Lots of skiers swear by goggles, but I detest them. Goggles are *much*
>more likely to fog up than regular glasses. Unless you spend a lot of
>money, goggles worn over glasses are essentially certain to fog up, and
>uncomfortable to boot.
My goggles almost never fog up, however, my glasses fog
up under my goggles occasionally.
Do other people find goggles uncomfortable?
The Carrera goggles that I have fit really nicely over
my large frames and are very comfortable.
>Goggles are essential when the snow is so deep that it is swirling around
>your head....
Huh?....Did someone say powder skiing in Utah?
>If your eyes are ultra-sensitive, you may need goggles to protect them
>from side-light. However, I have spent full days on
>high-altitude glaciers in the summer wearing sunglasses and baseball cap,
>and suffered no ill effects.
I wouldn't consider myself ULTRA-sensitive but I wear
sunglasses under my goggles in 80% of the light conditions
that I ski in. The double filtering helps on really bright
days. And when the weather is changing rapidly, it is useful
to remove (or add) the goggles as the lighting changes.
On really fast cruisers, the goggles cut down on tearing
(which can be a real drag on cold days...frozen tears :-( ).
>I have a strong suspicion that, like so many other apects of skiwear,
>goggles are worn largely in imitation of racers, and because people conclude
>that they are necessary before they ever try less exotic alternatives.
Last week at Telluride, my companion wore only sunglasses
and burned her eyes while mine escaped unscathed. I would rather
spend the few bucks on goggles (a decent pair can be had for $19)
than get burned trying an alternative first.
>If you choose sunglasses over goggles, I recommend using the darkest glasses
>you can find. Glasses that block 85% of the light are marginal. Fortunately,
>most reputable modern sunglasses block essentially all UV, so that shouldn't
>be an issue. If your regular glasses are made of glass (which blocks UV
>and doesn't scratch) but you have no prescription sunglasses, you might
>consider clip-on shades -- much cheaper than prescription glasses or goggles.
>However, beware of anything that blocks visible sunlight without blocking
>UV -- a very hazardous combination.
Agreed. Good bit of info.
> A hat with a brim is always helpful.
How do you keep a brimmed hat on while skiing fast?
Mine always ends up 50 yards uphill...ugh!
mike rizzi
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
"If art is to nourish the roots of our culture,
society must set the artist free" - President John F. Kennedy Oct 1963
============== ...!apple!mas1!rizzi or mas1!ri...@apple.com ==============
Terry Jones
one pair of 360D. They all have the same problems.
The Anti Friction Devices (AFDs) under the toe need frequent replacment.
The thin teflon pad either gets damaged or peels off the plastic carrier
or else the plastic carrier breaks. I have to replace this about every
2 years. Sure it isn't mega expensive but as time goes on it gets harder
to get the right ones. Lately the newer bindings have AFDs that LOOK
the same but have different dimensions underneath for the mounting
which translates into a do not fit properly situation where they fall
off. Supposedly competant ski shops have installed these for me!!
The ski brakes on the Tyrolia are dual action where the fold out then drop
down. As they wear the drop down before folding out and catch on the ski
itself. Especially a problem on wider skis like 223 downhill skis. This
results in a less than desireable runaway ski.
A third problem is that I have had two of covers that go over the spring
on the heelpiece fall off. This leaves the guts more exposed (big deal)
but also the DIN setting window is in this plastic cover so now I can't
set the bindings properly.
I sent a letter to Head/Tyrolia and will wait for a response (and post)
but I wanted to hear about others experiences.
tj
Seppo K Koponen
Hullo,
I've been planning a skiing trip to Jackson
Hole at the end of February. Three questions:
1) What's a president's week (or presidential week) or
something like that, at the end of Feb. I heard that it
may be a little crowded there during this week ?
2) Maybe someone skiing at Jackson would be kind enough
to provide info about the conditions there ?
3) How about Grand Targhee ?
Thank's in advance, Seppo.
Bengt Lidgard
> 1) What's a president's week (or presidential week) or
> something like that, at the end of Feb. I heard that it
> may be a little crowded there during this week ?
I was there a couple of days last year.
- Monday was Presidents day. We were there from Tuesday and on and had no
problems at all (excellent conditions).
- Presidents Day in Park City is terrible.... (AVOID!!)
Personal remark: Three (2) days is quite sufficient.
Bengt
Geoff Allen
> something like that, at the end of Feb. I heard that it
> may be a little crowded there during this week ?
President's Day is a holiday to commemorate George Washington and
Abraham Lincoln, who were both born in February. We used to have both
birthdays observed seperately, but then I guess we were having too many
holidays and ``they'' (whoever they are) decided to combine them into
one.
President's Day this year is February 18. The implications for skiing
are that everyone has a three day weekend right in the middle of winter,
so guess what all the skiers do? You guessed it!
I was trying to make reservations in Jackson a few weeks before
President's Day last year. It took several calls to finally find
someplace with space available.
Hope that answers your question about our strange American customs! :^)
--
Geoff Allen \ Lift line? What's a lift line?
uunet!pmafire!geoff \
ge...@pmafire.inel.gov \ Ski Pebble Creek!
Geoff Allen
>A good set of goggles means double lenses, I also get polaroid (tm)
>lenses and prefer a yellow tint for cloudy days. (Not cheap.)
I was surprised that no one had mentioned the tint yet (thanks, Eugene!).
I've got a pair that are pinkish (I think). Either that or yellow is a
*tremendous* advantage on cloudy days. They cut the blue color cast
which is everywhere, which helps you make out the snow surface better.
I wouldn't be caught skiing without them.
Disclaimer: I don't wear glasses, so ``glasses under goggles'' is a
non-issue for me.
John Harris
>I ski on 3 different pairs of Tyrolia bindings. 2 pair of 360RD and
>one pair of 360D. They all have the same problems.
>
>The Anti Friction Devices (AFDs) under the toe need frequent replacment.
>The thin teflon pad either gets damaged or peels off the plastic carrier
>or else the plastic carrier breaks. I have to replace this about every
Ditto on my only pair of 360R's. Finally used rubber silicon to glue em
down!
>
>A third problem is that I have had two of covers that go over the spring
>on the heelpiece fall off. This leaves the guts more exposed (big deal)
Again, Ditto!
>
>but I wanted to hear about others experiences.
>
I have also had problems with the 1/4 turn locking nut that holds the
heal piece and brake to the mounting plate. The 1/4 turn feature breaks
and will no longer hold the heal piece to the mounting plate! Once I hiked
up to the summit of Mt Bachelor and when I went to put on the ski, the heal
piece fell off!! Well I used rubber silicon to hold the 1/4 turn lock nut
in place, it worked until I tossed the damn things. This bogus feature was
fixed in latter designs.
I suggest you send the bindings back to tyrolia for replacement. They are
usually good about replacing them. When(if) you get a new pair, SELL EM!!
On a side note, Tyrolia translated to SKI-english means TYLENOL.
John.
Eric Holeman
>President's Day is a holiday to commemorate George Washington and
>Abraham Lincoln, who were both born in February. We used to have both
>birthdays observed seperately, but then I guess we were having too many
>holidays and ``they'' (whoever they are) decided to combine them into
>one.
"Presidents' Day" is a colloquial bastardization that seems to have
become accepted within the last decade or so. The day off many folks
get on the 3rd monday of February is correctly known as Washington's
Birthday.
Pete Nicholson
A tip for goggle users that I just learned: Here in the Pacific Northwet
it is not uncommon to ski in freezing rain, wet sleet and other forms of
precipitation that immediately freeze to the outside of your goggles and
quickly make them impossible to see through. It has sometimes been bad
enough that I've had to stop every 5-10 turns to scrape them off.
Solution -- coat them with Rain-X, an automotive windshield anti-wetting
agent. Additional bonus -- since it is not sold in ski shops, it costs
less than $50 :-) (about $4 a bottle).
Pete Nicholson pe...@vcd.hp.com
Keith Erskine
over glasses. If you do a hard face plant with glasses on, you
can badly bruise or break your nose when the bridgepiece of your
glasses slams into your nose. I've seen this happen to several
people, and it happened to me once about 5 years ago.
Your local safety nazi,
Keith Erskine
George Wu
|> Since noone has mentioned it yet, goggles have a safety advantage
|> over glasses. If you do a hard face plant with glasses on, you
|> can badly bruise or break your nose when the bridgepiece of your
|> glasses slams into your nose. I've seen this happen to several
|> people, and it happened to me once about 5 years ago.
Or, as I discovered a couple of years ago when I learned to ski, you
can crush/shatter the frames and imbed them into your eyebrows. The ski
patrol really doesn't like having to use precious snow just to cover up
blood, even if the cuts are really superficial.
George
----
George J Wu | g...@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Software Engineer | 2201 Dwight Way, Berkeley, CA, 94730
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.| (415) 649-3752
Al Knoll
Clips on (Band has a latch)
FOG-X lens doesn't fog
Replaceable lenses available from Smith Sport Optics Sun Valley Hideho
Soft on my face and offers good cold protection
Good branch deflector for tree skiing
Flow through feature allows wearing a hat with a brim for those 2"/hr days
(I still can remember those days 1JAN83 DEEP SATURDAY on West Face)
FYI Roger sold the company last NOV but the famous Ilene of customer service
is still in command. Fast efficient service.
Al *<8{) (Waitin' for 2"/hr)
Steve LaSala
>In article <1843...@hpfcdj.HP.COM>, k...@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Keith Erskine) writes:
>|> Since noone has mentioned it yet, goggles have a safety advantage
>|> over glasses. If you do a hard face plant with glasses on, you
>|> can badly bruise or break your nose when the bridgepiece of your
>|> glasses slams into your nose. I've seen this happen to several
>|> people, and it happened to me once about 5 years ago.
>
> Or, as I discovered a couple of years ago when I learned to ski, you
>can crush/shatter the frames and imbed them into your eyebrows. The ski
>patrol really doesn't like having to use precious snow just to cover up
>blood, even if the cuts are really superficial.
True. I have a semicircular scar on my cheek where the lower rim of
my glasses cut through to the bone after being hit by a lacrosse ball. This
was not superficial and required five stiches and a head x-ray. I have since
accquired "sport glasses", designed for impact resistance. They have a thick,
blunt frame and a removable silicone rubber "bumper pad" on the nose piece.
I recommend a similar investment to anyone who might take a face plant with
the lenses on. Oh, and get shatterproof plastic lenses too, if you can.