What Apple is trying to tell us....
Ian Feldman
Here are some previews of coming Apple-attractions, as described
in the invitational booklet for the 1990 Apple Worldwide Developers
Conference, to be held in San Jose, CA, on May 7-11.... a month
AFTER the MacWorld SF Exhibition. Below are few selected, more
juicy bits; those in quotes verbatim. Each entry refers to a
single session, though many more sessions are scheduled. [My
own comments like this].
Monday, May 7th
---------------
System Software Overview - 90min
System 7.0 and its features. `A prelude to more technical sessions
and so important that no other competing sessions are scheduled'.
Getting More from MPW - preview of an 'integrated help system that
lets you slip straight to Inside Macintosh information without
leaving the confines of the editor'. [Mark the use of _confines_].
Virtual User: An Automated Testing Tool -- 'simplifies testing of
complex application software' (script-based). [The Gorilla DA -
the Real Bad Behaved Monkey DA ;-)]
Tuesday, May 8th
----------------
Interapplication Communications Overview -- a 6+3/4 hours' session.
Whole IAC Architecture, 'for techies and marketers that will whet
your appetite'. PPC Toolbox calls across AT networks. Apple-
Events[tm], AppleScript[tm], Edition Manager 'which allows your
applications to share data dynamically with other applications'.
Much more.
Graphics File Formats -- the 'chance to see the new graphics file
format that we're developing. Learn why it's a better format for
conveying and sharing graphics information among applications and
how you can prepare for its debut'. [Let's hope for one that is
broadly PC- and X-Windows-compatible].
N&C Event -- 90 minutes -- `Hear an announcement by our networking
and communication people on a matter that is of importance to all
developers'. [Introducing the AppleTalk Telepathic Communications
Superset, no doubt ;-)]
Wednesday, May 9th
------------------
Designing for Apple OS Independence -- 'Tired of rewriting
applications with each new System version? Now you can learn design
practices that will ensure that your applications run on Apple
operating systems, current and future, including A/UX'
Apple, The Interface and Everything -- 'Bruce Tognazzini, Apple's
Human Interface Evangelist, will discuss the intergalactic
importance of interface integrity. In this context, the importance
of the number "42" will also be discussed'. [Smells of Ted Nelson's
projected XANADU servers in orbit around Mars].
Truth About TrueType -- '...we'll look at the variety and state of
the art of the tools available for creating TrueType fonts'.
[Tools? What tools? Where?]
A Glimpe of the Future of the Macintosh Graphics -- 'see directions
Apple is taking in graphics [...] a peek at new graphics
capabilities as well as the integration of the line layout manager
and new printing architecture'.
Thursday, May 10th
------------------
HyperCard Surprise - 135 minutes -- 'Shh! It's a surprise. Don't
miss it'. [The long-promised Mr.Coffee interface, multiple cards on
screen and the incrementally compiled HyperTalk II, the Sequel. Not
available until Boston in August. The second longest session,
after the IAC one].
HyperTalk and New Debugging Tools -- 'see HT's latest commands and
syntax additions, as well as demos and the use of new debugging
tools'.
Extended XCMD architecture -- 'we'll provide sample source code'
Using the Help Manager in System 7.0 -- `Learn how to use and [..]
incorporate its features into your applications'.
Using the Alias Manager in System 7.0 -- `Overview and tutorial
[...]; allows your applications to track the locations of files'.
Friday, May 11th
----------------
Macintosh OS vs. Everyone Else -- 60min -- 'We'll show you why we do
what we do, how we do it and why we're ahead'
-------------------------------------------------------
So much the schedule. We're also told that due to Apple's "doing
their part for the environment" all conference materials will be
distributed, for the first time, "on a compact disk", that all
attendees will receive afterwards [video or CD-ROM? --if]. Could
be Apple's way of telling us all to read-their-lips and get those
Apple CD-ROM drives. Audio and video tapes will also be available
after the event though.
General: a beautiful brochure; all insights gained at the conference
fall under non-disclosure clause, "not to be used for any article or
news story without the express permission of the Apple Corporation's
Public Relations Departement"; US$ 195.- per day attendance fee; hotels
from US$ 56-135/ single/ day; registration form offers choice of
__Medium __Large __X-Large T-shirt and __Yes __No to vegetarian
meals. Also a mysterious "I checked in early gift" is mentioned,
twice. Ie, no small-T-shirt-size, non-vegetarian, late check-ins
need apply ;-))
--Ian Feldman / ianf%nada....@uunet.uu.net <--- the only safe route
/ "observe the emacs-style expression-dash-misuse"
Howard P. Marvel
>jk...@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan King) writes:
>
>>Maybe he's also trimming out all the fluff and misinformation, too.
>>But seriously, why did this guy get a renewed permit to mint money
>>over Hypercard 2.0 when there are many more deserving folks inside
>>Apple who could probably put the clown to shame?
>
>Consider this a general comment, not necessarily aimed at Jonathan King.
>He's the latest, handy example.
>
>Why is it impossible to post anything about anything these days on USENET
>without someone flaming? Either the posting, the person posting it, or
>finding some third, unrelated issue to flame on?
>
Let's all sit back and relax.
1. The original posting about the Goodman book was useful
information. That is, Chuq's post, as always, was useful in informing
us as to the likely time window for HyperCard 2.0. Thanks.
2. The king post did not strike this reader as an attack on Chuq. In
particular, it was an attack on Goodman, and on Goodman's special
treatment by Apple. I noted no criticism of Chuq, who I do not
believe works on the HyperCard project in any case, right?
3. The King post strikes me as absolutely appropriate. The argument,
as I understand it, is that Goodman made a fortune marketing a bad set
of books with an implicit Apple endorsement, that (implicitly) other
authors could have done better, and that Apple is repeating the
mistake. This may be an issue for debate, but it certainly does not
qualify as an off-the-wall criticism.
4. Hence, King's post seems inappropriate only to the extent that it
is offered as a follow-up rather than as a de novo posting, hardly a
major failing.
5. Chuq's postings are clearly valuable, and therefore we should
offer him our thanks and perhaps a gift certificate for a thicker
skin. After all, his cogent discussion of word processors did induce
me to purchase the copy of Full Write that is now gathering dust on my
shelf. 8-) I can understand the sensitivity over the net's low
standards of conduct, but I simply think that the sensitivity is
misplaced in this case and would hope that we could continue to
receive his fine contributions.
6. As to King's point, I heartily agree that his books are among the
least satisfactory contributions to the HyperCard literature. I'd
much rather see Apple make someone else rich. I nominate Jeanne
DeVoto of Apple.
Chuq Von Rospach
> Apple, The Interface and Everything -- 'Bruce Tognazzini, Apple's
> Human Interface Evangelist, will discuss the intergalactic
> importance of interface integrity. In this context, the importance
> of the number "42" will also be discussed'. [Smells of Ted Nelson's
> projected XANADU servers in orbit around Mars].
This is one I hope I don't miss. Tog's stuff is something else.
> HyperCard Surprise - 135 minutes -- 'Shh! It's a surprise. Don't
> miss it'. [The long-promised Mr.Coffee interface, multiple cards on
> screen and the incrementally compiled HyperTalk II, the Sequel. Not
> available until Boston in August. The second longest session,
> after the IAC one].
Hmm. I wonder if there's any connection between this and Bantam's
announcement that Danny Goodman's 3rd edition of the Hypercard book ships in
July (it was in a recent Publisher's Weekly). I wonder why he's revising it?
Nah. Probably coincidence. He's just fixing bugs in his scripts.
> all conference materials will be
> distributed, for the first time, "on a compact disk", that all
> attendees will receive afterwards [video or CD-ROM? --if]. Could
> be Apple's way of telling us all to read-their-lips and get those
> Apple CD-ROM drives.
I would assume it's a CD-Rom instead of a proceedings. I don't know for
sure. I don't even think Apple cares if it's an Apple CD-Rom drive, as long
as it's a CD-Rom drive (actually, I bet apple DOES care....)
--
Chuq Von Rospach <+> ch...@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking]
There is no truth to the rumor that the April 2 earthquake in England was
King Arthur expressing his opinion on the new poll tax.
Jonathan King
ch...@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>
> > HyperCard Surprise - 135 minutes -- 'Shh! It's a surprise. Don't
> > miss it'. [The long-promised Mr.Coffee interface, multiple cards on
> > screen and the incrementally compiled HyperTalk II, the Sequel. Not
> > available until Boston in August. The second longest session,
> > after the IAC one].
>
> Hmm. I wonder if there's any connection between this and Bantam's
> announcement that Danny Goodman's 3rd edition of the Hypercard book ships in
> July (it was in a recent Publisher's Weekly). I wonder why he's revising it?
> Nah. Probably coincidence. He's just fixing bugs in his scripts.
Maybe he's also trimming out all the fluff and misinformation, too.
But seriously, why did this guy get a renewed permit to mint money
over Hypercard 2.0 when there are many more deserving folks inside
Apple who could probably put the clown to shame? I mean, we *won't*
need the 90-page chapter on the Mr. Coffee interface he is madly
typing up, but we *will* need the seven plus or minus two pieces of
real information that will be buried deep within his chatty text. I
expect the new book will be a two volume set retailing for $50.00 if
the new version of Hypercard is anything like one might expect.
jking
Chuq Von Rospach
>Maybe he's also trimming out all the fluff and misinformation, too.
>But seriously, why did this guy get a renewed permit to mint money
>over Hypercard 2.0 when there are many more deserving folks inside
>Apple who could probably put the clown to shame?
Consider this a general comment, not necessarily aimed at Jonathan King.
He's the latest, handy example.
Why is it impossible to post anything about anything these days on USENET
without someone flaming? Either the posting, the person posting it, or
finding some third, unrelated issue to flame on?
Every time someone from Apple seems to open their mouth, someone jumps on
them. Or jumps in their general direction. I realize that Apple bashing
is a favorite hobby of some people, and I also realize that some times Apple
DOES deserve some bashing.
But I, personally, am tired of being bashed from all sides. When I
posted the 1 year warranty stuff, all I saw for a few days was how it
wasn't good enough.I'm tired of watching people who don't understand
the business whine. I'm tired of being a convenient target. This kind
of behavior is rampant on USENET, and I think it's inappropriate.
Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority.
I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing any more.
I'm only going to post things when I feel it's important enough to warrant
wading through the inevitable flames. If that means the net won't get
information it might otherwise get, well, tough. People who act like idiots
should not be surprised when people stop talking to them.
Of course, I know I'm going to get flamed for this.... But it'll be the last
flame. I've got better things to do with my time than put up with this stuff.
Nothing personal, Jonathan. You're the last in a LONG string of noisemakers.
Not even particularly noisy, either -- but the straw that breaks the camels
back isn't always the biggest or heaviest. It's just the last.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamewar, already in progress.
chuq (email address: unlisted)
John Doner
=But I, personally, am tired of being bashed from all sides. When I
=posted the 1 year warranty stuff, all I saw for a few days was how it
=wasn't good enough.I'm tired of watching people who don't understand
=the business whine. I'm tired of being a convenient target. This kind
=of behavior is rampant on USENET, and I think it's inappropriate.
=Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority.
=
=I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing any more.
=I'm only going to post things when I feel it's important enough to warrant
=wading through the inevitable flames. If that means the net won't get
Please reconsider, Chuq. I certainly value your postings and I'm sure
others do, too. Don't let those with quick fingers and bad manners
spoil it for everyone.
John E. Doner | "The beginner...should not be discouraged if...he
Mathematics, UCSB | finds that he does not have the prerequisites for
Santa Barbara, CA 93106| reading the prerequisites."
do...@henri.ucsb.edu | --Paul Halmos, Measure Theory
Scott D. Camp
the majority of his postings (I wouldn't be human if I agreed with everthing he
said). If nothing else, you have to admit he puts time into his sig files. :-)
Seriously, the information posted by Chuq, and others at Apple and other
companies (for instance the latest one was from the SAM author who explained
how to use his product to detect the ZUC virus), has been very useful for
my purposes on more than one occassion. While I also appreciate the non-
corporate types out on netland as well, the corporate types have made a very
substantial contribution.
So, I'm not trying to sway your decision, Chuq, but here is a vote of
confidence for people passing along useful information. Examples: 1) the
releasing of the info on Apple's extended warranty, though it did generate
controversy about its implementation, passed along info that may have taken
me some effort to accumulate otherwise; 2) the posting of System 6.0.5 to
apple.com and the release of info to comp.sys.mac (and other mac groups) as
to how to retrieve it was simply a magnificent gesture on the part of Apple
(though it has generated some interest from those without access to ftp for
the files to be available via LISTSERV); and 3) from a non-Apple source, how
to use SAM to detect the ZUC virus (btw, I don't even own SAM but it is just
one example of the proper use of internet or usenet to get relevant info out).
I could go on with other examples of where I appreciated the postings from
people like Chuq, but you may already begin to suspect my point. When we go
to the efforts to thank people, we use up valuable bandwidth in doing so.
So, while many more of us do not flame everything out there as do flame, we
usually simply hold back to keep down traffic. (IMHO of course.)
In short, I would encourage those who make regular postings that are carefully
thought out and pass along relevant information to NOT be intimidated by 1) a
vocal minority who choose to turn flame on or 2) opinions that do not
necessarily agree with your own.
Hope to see you on the net again.
Scott D. Camp Q...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
The Pennsylvania State University
305 Oswald Tower
University Park, PA 16802
814-863-0121
Norris Preyer
>I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing any more.
>I'm only going to post things when I feel it's important enough to warrant
>wading through the inevitable flames. If that means the net won't get
>information it might otherwise get, well, tough. People who act like idiots
>should not be surprised when people stop talking to them.
and I, for one, am sorry. Chuq, we're going to miss you; people who act
like an adult on USENET are very few and far between.
(oh god, am I going to get badly flamed for this?)
Pete Harlan
Chuq Von Rospach has to say:
>I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing any more.
>I'm only going to post things when I feel it's important enough to warrant
>wading through the inevitable flames. If that means the net won't get
>information it might otherwise get, well, tough. People who act like idiots
>should not be surprised when people stop talking to them.
Usually when I see a new posting (ie, not a follow-up) that asks a
question, I look at all the follow-ups and select chuq's to read. It
usually contains all the information I would want to read about the
subject at hand. Perhaps the flaming few are less representative of
the net population than the silent, appreciative many.
Pete Harlan
har...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
"Even if he _doesn't_ know how to spell 'Chuck'."
Richard Fozzard
net. I also agree that the flame stuff has gotten out of hand. Witness the
current number of postings daily to comp.sys.mac. Probably fewer than half
are informational, the rest: fluff or flame.
Because this (self-referential) posting is just fluff, I better not go on.
I just would like to thank and encourage all who post information and
meta-flame those who flame!
rich
========================================================================
Richard Fozzard "Serendipity empowers"
Univ of Colorado/CIRES/NOAA R/E/FS 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80303
foz...@boulder.colorado.edu (303)497-6011 or 444-3168
Jim von Schmacht
most of 'em bitch about cost anyway they probably won't want to pay the
$75/year for information which is more rumour than fact. Grow up, people,
you are getting this info at no cost (other than net connections). The people
you have been flaming have no obligation to provide the information which you
so greatly desire, but so little appreciate. Chuq, can we add another proposed
split to comp.sys.mac? Suggestion: comp.sys.mac.flamewar. Do I hear a second?
*SPLASH*
I just dowsed myself with flame retardant so....
--
Jim von Schmacht Senior Member, Project Test Staff Ashton Tate Corporation
Disclaimer: Standard Issue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It isn't the years - it's the mileage" -Indiana Jones
Tim Maroney
>>Maybe he's also trimming out all the fluff and misinformation, too.
>>But seriously, why did this guy get a renewed permit to mint money
>>over Hypercard 2.0 when there are many more deserving folks inside
>>Apple who could probably put the clown to shame?
In article <40...@apple.Apple.COM> ch...@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>Why is it impossible to post anything about anything these days on USENET
>without someone flaming? Either the posting, the person posting it, or
>finding some third, unrelated issue to flame on?
I'm not sure, Chuck. Since you're the one flaming, while King is simply
expressing a legitimate critical opinion of Danny Goodman's verbose and
unhelpful HyperCard book, perhaps the person to ask is yourself.
>Every time someone from Apple seems to open their mouth, someone jumps on
>them. Or jumps in their general direction. I realize that Apple bashing
>is a favorite hobby of some people, and I also realize that some times Apple
>DOES deserve some bashing.
Right. "There are many more deserving folks inside Apple who could
probably put the clown to shame" is now "Apple bashing". This should
easily take the "Most Feeble Flame Rationalization of 1990" award.
Why not just admit that you're flaming King because you hoped to gain
status from your announcement about Goodman's book, and you resent
having King point out that most sensible people don't care for
the book, so that you gain no status from it?
>But I, personally, am tired of being bashed from all sides.
A rather telling comment in this context. King never even mentioned
Chuck, yet Chuck is being bashed. Again, this points to the loss-of-status
explanation for Chuck's flame -- he perceives a negative opinion of
Goodman's book as both Apple-bashing and Chuck-bashing.
>When I
>posted the 1 year warranty stuff, all I saw for a few days was how it
>wasn't good enough.I'm tired of watching people who don't understand
>the business whine. I'm tired of being a convenient target. This kind
>of behavior is rampant on USENET, and I think it's inappropriate.
>Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority.
WAAAAAAHHHH!!! MOMMMMYYYYY!!!
>I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing any more.
>I'm only going to post things when I feel it's important enough to warrant
>wading through the inevitable flames. If that means the net won't get
>information it might otherwise get, well, tough. People who act like idiots
>should not be surprised when people stop talking to them.
Don't slam the door on your way out. I assure you, very few people
will miss your puerile contributions. However, since this is about the
four dozenth posting of this type I've seen from you in the last eight
years, I'm not taking this too seriously. Indignant statements of
resignation, from the net in general or from various obscure
net.offices, is your defining form, always accompanied with a statement
of what idiots everyone else on the net is. I only hope that one day,
you're serious, and you don't come back.
--
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, t...@toad.com
"The pride of the peacock is the glory of God.
The lust of the goat is the bounty of God.
The wrath of the lion is the wisdom of God.
The nakedness of woman is the work of God."
- Blake, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
David C. Barnhart II
>I would like to provide an anti-flame for Chuq. I for one have benefitted from
>the majority of his postings (I wouldn't be human if I agreed with everthing he
>said). If nothing else, you have to admit he puts time into his sig files. :-)
>
>Seriously, the information posted by Chuq, and others at Apple and other
>companies (for instance the latest one was from the SAM author who explained
>how to use his product to detect the ZUC virus), has been very useful for
>my purposes on more than one occassion. While I also appreciate the non-
>corporate types out on netland as well, the corporate types have made a very
>substantial contribution.
>
>thought out and pass along relevant information to NOT be intimidated by 1) a
>vocal minority who choose to turn flame on or 2) opinions that do not
>necessarily agree with your own.
>
>Hope to see you on the net again.
>
>Scott D. Camp Q...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
I must agree wholeheartedly. Chuq, if you are reading this, remember that
there must be 10s of thousands of us who read this group, and there can't
be THAT many people flaming you (if there are that many, that's a pathetic
statement about the readership as a whole).
I have also benefitted from the information provided by Chuq, blob, and all
the others from Apple (or other companies) who answer here. Is it really too
much to ask some of you to cool the flames slightly? Just like many of you,
I don't agree with all of the opinions put forth by those mentioned above,
but I don't use that as a reason to flame every time I might feel like doing
so. It just isn't necessary. Especially in the light of the fact that most
of the people whose opinions you read are not the ones responsible for the
things you REALLY dislike, e.g. Apple's prior lack of real warranty, or
Microsoft's "interpretation" of the user-interface guidelines. So come on,
give these guys a break, or our information sources will disappear entirely.
Then you really won't be able to flame, since there will be no one listening.
Dave Barnhart
NCR Office Information Systems
3245 Platt Springs Rd.
West Columbia, SC 29169
Warning: inews fodder below:
Gregory S. Fox
> [Triggering post by Jon King deleted]
> Why is it impossible to post anything about anything these days on
> USENET without someone flaming? Either the posting, the person
> posting it, or finding some third, unrelated issue to flame on?
> Every time someone from Apple seems to open their mouth, someone
> jumps on them. Or jumps in their general direction. I realize
> that Apple bashing is a favorite hobby of some people, and I also
> realize that some times Apple DOES deserve some bashing.
> I'm tired of it, and I'm not willing to put up with the bashing
> any more.
This could mark the beginning of an unpleasant trend, so it's time to
speak up. To be succinct;
- I am greatly appreciative of the help I've gotten from these boards,
especially the thoughtful answers to stupid questions which I asked
[still ask :-)] when I was getting started. Invaluable.
- I also appreciate the technical threads that occur. More than once,
I've been forewarned of something tricky or interesting, learned of
a better approach, or tried things of which I was ignorant.
- When I see a flame, especially one devoid of real information, my
typical reaction is, "What a jackass", and I avoid that thread. It's
not that negative feedback is worthless, or that I don't have my own
qualms, but I can't see wasting time and bandwidth whining about a
trade-off or constraint or work-around when there are other things
I need to know and do. For whatever problems the Mac has, there's
undoubtably someone at Apple who's unhappy about them. They have
to sign their names to the product. It's the same with my own
software.
I can't think of a good way to improve the signal-to-noise ratio on
usenet, but I don't want people to think that their efforts go
unappreciated. And to the flamers out there, here's a clue: think
"feedback". It reflects on you, too. Do you want to improve the mac
environment, or are you just pissing into the wind?
Flames to e-mail,
--Greg
Amanda Walker
Harlan) writes:
> Perhaps the flaming few are less representative of
> the net population than the silent, appreciative many.
That's as may be, but I don't think that Chuq was complaining that no one
appreciated his postings; he was complaining that there was always someone
jumping in and flaming, often without actually understanding what they were
replying to.
I feel this effect too, although fewer people seem to be interested in
flaming me, perhaps because I do not work for The Company Everyone Loves
To Hate... Even so, I've ended up feeling that my postings are more of a
public service than part of participating in an open discussion, and I very
carefully restrict myself to subjects that are either entirely technical
or ones about which I don't care if I'm flamed at (like "real multitasking"
or why MacTCP doesn't come with a socket interface :-)...).
It can be very discouraging to do your best to provide correct, useful
information and get only (or mostly) negative reinforcement in return.
Silence may indeed signify admiration, but it sure doesn't help when you
come in in the morning and find flames in you mailbox and on the net.
If you like what Chuq posts, tell him! Flattery will get you a long way
with most people ... I know it sure works for me :-). Seriously, a little
positive reinforcement can counteract a lot of negative stuff.
Hmm, I seem to be starting to sound like an antacid commercial ("one thank
you note can absorb up to three times its weight in flamage if taken as
directed...").
I'll start: Chuq, you done good for as long as I can remember seeing stuff
from you (way back when you were still on "plaid" :-)). I hate to see you
leave, and I hope you'll be back.
--
Amanda Walker, InterCon Systems Corporation
--
"Y'know, you can't have, like, a light, without a dark to stick it in...
You know what I'm sayin'?" --Arlo Guthrie
J.C...@ens.prime.com
Re: Flaming on the Internet
There is flaming and there are intelligent discussions. Things are rarely
this black and white however. There is much inbetween, including cries of
frustration.
For myself, I <<try>> to remember the following two points:
1. Don't write what I would not be 100% proud to say to a person face-to-face.
Even if I desire to make inflamatory remarks, I realize that face-to-face
I would next enter a discussion, so why not skip the remarks in the first
place.
2. I try not to make judgemental remarks.
i.e. "There is a problem when...", not "This sucks because..."
or perhaps "This doesn't seem to handle...", not "There is a bug...".
Even when I think I know some area like the back of my hand, someone
else comes along to prove me wrong.
Thoughtless remarks and ego are quick to destroy what comraderie we have.
And it's really too bad, because I really believe that people want to help
and be helped.
Jim Cook
<J.C...@ENS.Prime.COM>
"My opinions, no one asked. Prime has its own."
Harold Wong
>
>How about a comp.sys.mac.chuq *moderated* newsgroup. I'll moderate,
>and will only forward non-flame postings. I'll even give Chuq a
>mailbox on my system that he can use in his 'From:' line that forwards
>all mail to /dev/null. [1/2 :-}]
>
>-- Lloyd Taylor
> News admin, and Chuq appreciator!
>
> (We're really going to miss you, Chuq. *sigh*)
I'd second this.
Harold
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold Wong (213) 825-9040
UCLA-Mathnet; 3915F MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA 90024-1555
ARPA: h...@math.ucla.edu BITNET: hgw%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT
G|ran B}ge
Preyer) writes:
> and I, for one, am sorry. Chuq, we're going to miss you; people who act
> like an adult on USENET are very few and far between.
Me too. Why can't we get some of the unneeded flames off the net instead
of the good contributions.
Goran Bage
Computer Science Laboratory
Ellemtel
Box 1505
S-125 25 Alvsjo, Sweden
tel: +46 8 727 3539
email: go...@erix.ericsson.se
>> May the Snow be with you <<
Lloyd W. Taylor
Deepak Seth
I wanted to express my feelings about flames directed to Chuq. I think
what Chuq was doing for the net was exteremely altruistic. I think it is a
shame that he has to leave this newsgrourp because a small group of people
have nothing better to do but flame people like Chuq. We will miss you
Chuq, and we will certainly loose a valuable source of information.
I hope you guys that flamed him are now satisfied !!
cheers,
Deepak Seth
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|Internet: dee...@jacobs.cs.orst.edu | Department of Computer Science |
|UUCP: tektronix!orstcs!deepaks | Oregon State Univeristy |
|UUCP: hp-labs!hp-pcd!orstcs!deepaks | Apple Student Representative |
|Applelink: ST0184 | |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|Postal Address: Sackett Hall, 277D, Corvallis OR 97331 |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
Robert Stanley
flamers to just not say anything, here are all the people at Apple who
have provided me with an answer, directly or indirectly, over the last
several years. I stopped counting at the end of last year, and I know
that many of these names have moved on to other things, but my thanks
to you all anyway. Without the answers I found in your postings, some
of my working life would have been much tougher.
a...@apple.UUCP (Art Willis)
al...@Apple.COM (Alan Mimms)
al...@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit)
and...@apple.UUCP (Richard Andrews)
ant...@Apple.COM (Antonio Ordonez)
atk...@Apple.COM (Andy Atkins)
aus...@Apple.COM (Glenn L. Austin)
bat...@apple.UUCP (Ken Laws)
ba...@apple.UUCP (Allen J. Baum)
b...@apple.UUCP (bill coderre)
bc...@apple.UUCP (Brian Case)
bld...@apple.UUCP (Brian Hurley)
bl...@Apple.com (Brian Bechtel)
bur...@Apple.COM (Vicki Burich)
ca...@Apple.COM (Carl C. Hewitt)
ca...@Apple.COM (Randy Carr)
cart...@apple.com (Bryan 'STAKMan' Carter)
cass...@Apple.COM (David Casseres)
che...@goofy.apple.com (Harry Chesley)
ch...@apple.com (Paul Snively)
ch...@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Raspach [Apple: day 1!]) (Chuq Von Rospach)
cmc...@cdp.UUCP [[Charles McCabe]]
cor...@apple.UUCP (Someone Else) [[Cory ...]]
cre...@Apple.COM (Mike Cremer)
d...@apple.UUCP (Dan Allen)
da...@apple.UUCP (Darin Adler)
desn...@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers)
dg...@apple.UUCP (David Goldsmith)
dku...@apple.com (Derek "Slack" Kueter)
dly...@Apple.COM (David Lyons)
do...@apple.UUCP (Tom Dowdy)
d...@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Duane Williams)
d...@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry)
dwe...@Apple.COM (Dave Wells)
dy...@Apple.COM (Patrick Dyson)
ea...@apple.com (Earl Wallace)
edd...@apple.UUCP (Ken Eddings)
e...@Apple.COM (Mike Smith)
enw...@Apple.COM (Tim Enwall)
fa...@apple.com (Erik E. Fair)
fi...@Apple.COM (Robert Fish)
fl...@Apple.COM (Charles Flaig)
flo...@apple.UUCP (Stephen Flowers)
fra...@Apple.COM (Frank Flynn)
ge...@Apple.COM (Geoff Peck)
gg...@apple.com (Gordon Garb)
gla...@Apple.COM (Gary LaVoy)
gol...@apple.UUCP (Phil Goldman)
Gr...@AppleLink.Apple.Com (Greggy)
gr...@apple.UUCP (Grady Ward)
h...@apple.UUCP (Byron Han, Licensed To Dream.)
h...@apple.UUCP (Byron Han, fire fighter)
h...@Apple.COM (Byron Han, Architect)
h...@Apple.COM (Byron Han, wyl E. coyote )
h...@Apple.COM (Byron Han)
h...@apple.COM (Byron Han, Project Scapegoat)
ho...@apple.UUCP (Bayles Holt)
hux...@apple.UUCP (Fred Huxham)
jac...@apple.UUCP (Hernan'Jackie' Macapanpan)
jde...@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
jer...@Apple.COM (Jeremy Bornstein) [ -jeremy bjornsten ]
jer...@Apple.COM (Jerry Godes)
j...@apple.UUCP (John Kullmann)
j...@Apple.COM (John Kevin Calhoun)
jmp...@Apple.COM (Mike Puckett)
joe...@apple.UUCP (Joe MacDougald)
j...@Apple.COM (Jon Singer)
jor...@apple.UUCP (Jordan Mattson)
j...@apple.com (John R. Galloway)
j...@Apple.COM (Jeff Miller)
kat...@apple.UUCP (Jim Kateley)
ka...@Apple.COM (Alex Kazim)
ke...@apple.UUCP (Keith Rollin)
ke...@apple.UUCP (Kent Beck)
kmce...@Apple.COM (Kevin McEntee)
ko...@apple.UUCP (Peter "Arrgh" Korn)
ks...@appleoz.oz.au ( A/UX Support)
ks...@appleoz.UUCP (Kent Sandvik - A/UX Support)
ku...@apple.UUCP (Kurt Hasel)
l...@apple.UUCP (Ed Lai)
le...@Apple.COM (Jonathan Patrick Leech)
len...@apple.UUCP (Robert Lenoil)
goofy!Apple.COM!liv...@apple.com (John Livesey)
l...@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein)
macl...@apple.com (Matthew MacLaurin)
mal...@Apple.COM (Malcolm Slaney)
ma...@apple.com (mark lentczner)
mi...@apple.com (mikel)
mjoh...@Apple.COM (Mark Johnson)
mu...@Apple.COM (Jim Murphy)
no...@apple.UUCP (Donald N. North)
or...@apple.com (Tim Oren)
pale...@Apple.COM (Jack Palevich)
par...@Apple.COM (Sean Parent)
pet...@Apple.COM (Steve Peters)
ph...@apple.UUCP (Phil Ronzone) (Philip K. Ronzone)
Pie...@apple.com (Kurt Piersol)
goofy!apple.com!pme...@apple.com (Paul Mercer)
p...@Apple.COM (Pete Helme)
rek...@Apple.COM (Paul Rekieta)
rew...@Apple.COM (Richard Ewing)
ri...@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman)
r...@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe)
r...@apple.UUCP (Rick Daley)
ru...@Apple.COM (Owen R. Rubin)
s...@Apple.COM (Steve Cisler)
sc...@apple.UUCP (scott douglass)
sheb...@Apple.COM (Andrew Shebanow)
shoe...@Apple.COM (Mike Shoemaker)
SI...@applelink.apple.com (Eric Ulevik)
sp...@Apple.COM (Dave "Spud" Kalin)
sta...@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
ste...@apple.UUCP (Bryan Stearns)
ste...@Apple.COM (Oliver Steele)
s...@apple.com (Steve Maller)
sus...@apple.UUCP (Joshua Susser)
te...@apple.UUCP (Ed Tecot)
tee...@Apple.COM (Michael Teener)
ti...@Apple.COM (Timo Bruck)
to...@apple.UUCP (Toby Farrand)
to...@apple.UUCP (Tom Taylor)
use...@apple.UUCP (usenet manager at apple)
win...@apple.UUCP (Dan Winkler)
w...@Apple.COM (Walter Smith)
ws...@apple.com (Will S. Johnston)
za...@Apple.COM (Zarko Draganic)
and, from a timewarp, or other wormhole in space:
Brian Schipper
Landon Dyer
I make no attempt to single anyone out for particular praise, although I
am sure that some of these will be familiar to many readers. On the other
hand, I would like to thank Byron Han for a most entertaining series of
signatures...
Once again, my thanks to you all.
Robert_S (also licensed to dream)
--
Robert Stanley UUCP: uunet!mitel!sce!cognos!roberts
Cognos, Inc. INET: roberts%cogno...@uunet.uu.net
(Research) Voice: (613) 738-1338 x6115
Steve Kearns
It is making me up-chuq.
And before you chuqqle at that pun, chuq out this one.
-steve
Ken Hancock
I wouldn't use sick, but posting isn't really the proper format
to show your appreciation. Chuq knows that I appreciate his work,
for I've mailed him a number of times to say so.
Instead of increasing the bandwidth of c.s.m., why not just send
a letter to Chuq? He'll still appreciate it even though it's not
being sent to thousands of machines worldwide.
Ken
--
Ken Hancock '90 | DISCLAIMER: I'm graduating and looking for
Consultant | a job, so I'll stand by my words.
Computer Resource Center |==============================================
Dartmouth College | EMAIL: is...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
Jim von Schmacht
When you've been on the net and've been a major contributor for a LONG
time, you have a tendancy to develop many friends/fans on a net thats
world wide. Call it an anti-flame against the NETWITS who are
promulgating the current flame war. If you can't say it in a controlled
reasoned fashion, why bother inundating us with le garbage, I always
say....
Oops...I'm late for a date at Chuq-E-Cheese.....(sorry chuq...)
Tim Maroney
>Well, just to add another 2 cents in the (doubtful) hope of persuading
>flamers to just not say anything, here are all the people at Apple who
>have provided me with an answer, directly or indirectly, over the last
>several years. I stopped counting at the end of last year, and I know
>that many of these names have moved on to other things, but my thanks
>to you all anyway. Without the answers I found in your postings, some
>of my working life would have been much tougher.
This is a non sequitur since the person who began the flames in this
thread is one of the Apple employees on your list. It is also a non
sequitur because no one is defending Apple bashing.
In any case, though, I have good relations with many of the people on
your list, and even though your list has nothing to do with the topics
under discussion, I'm glad that these good people are getting some
recognition. One or two of your list are idiots who *don't* deserve
it, but I suppose that's the price the rest have to pay.
--
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, t...@toad.com
FROM THE FOOL FILE:
"It does not matter that *we* know the truth, that *we* know the difference
between 'real' Satanists and 'adversarial' Satanists: to the Christians,
there is no difference; if we go around defending these people, then
*we* will be lumped in with them, and burned on adjacent stakes."
-- Garison Piatt, pi...@apache.dec.com, on alt.pagan
Martin Minow
>... Without the answers I found in your postings, some of my working life
>would have been much tougher.
I have a similar, but smaller, list of people who either did their job
or went out of their way to help me. Instead of posting it to the net,
I wrote a letter to Jean-Louis Gassee (my "It Shipped" notification),
asking him to convey my appreciation.
I don't know what happened to the letter but it is a useful tool for a
supervisor to have when justifying a pay raise or promotion for an employee.
I.e., if you want Apple employees to continue helping folk on the net,
do your best to make sure Apple management understands that their work
is noted and appreciated.
Martin Minow
mi...@thundr.enet.dec.com
Robert Fuhrer
>In article <40...@apple.Apple.COM> ch...@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>> of behavior of behavior is rampant on USENET, and I think it's
>> inappropriate. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority.
>
>Please reconsider, Chuq. I certainly value your postings and I'm sure
>others do, too. Don't let those with quick fingers and bad manners
>spoil it for everyone.
Here, here! I sympathize with Chuq completely. But, if enough of us
who value intelligence, understanding, and humanity speak up, maybe the
now-silent majority can turn the tide against what I hope is the vocal
minority. Let's not give up on the world just yet, as tiring as it is!
Robert M. Fuhrer
Computer Science Dept.
Columbia University
r...@cs.columbia.edu
Mark B. Johnson
Those letters do get read and passed down the chain of managers, at least
the one that Martin is referring to did. Thanks for your support.
--
Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson
Developer Technical Support domain: mjoh...@Apple.com
Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson
"You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?"
- Richard Bach, _One_