BENNY HINN'S QURANIC VISION
Pastor Frank
news:avp1vi$hr0i3$1...@ID-166711.news.dfncis.de...
>
> I have been reading the Bible for quite a while, and never
> once I came across one verse that says, 'If you don't like
> them, kill them.' The attentive readers who are mindful of
> the Arabic ''human'' lineage of Benny Hinn should have
> noticed that the angry Prophet was referring to the Quran.
> Furthermore the Declaration by the anointed leader that
> sooner or later the Churches of America would become
> militant is perfectly harmonizing with a Quranic
> Perspective.
>
Your whole long post is devoted to creating paranoia in people. You have
not only demonized Benny Hinn but most of the simple faithful. Now you
demonize Islam and give credence to George Bush and his war on Islam,
without providing references we can check with the Quranic search engine in:
http://www.islamworld.net/
Most of us Christians are sufficiently literate Biblically, that those
spreading rumours and innuendo, doom and gloom are not getting much
attention, for unlike you, our focus is on the glories of Christ, not on the
failings of men.
--
Pastor Frank
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
Jesus in Matthew. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye
for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let
him have thy cloke also.
41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
turn not thou away.
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even
the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do
not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
---------------------
His teaching is a humongous step up from Judaism's Exodus 21:23-24
"If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound,
stripe for stripe."
angelfire
But, I will have to say that the special on dateline about Benny Hinn was
totally believable to me.
I really liked Benny Hinn a lot too before seeing that Dateline special on
TV about him. I thought of Benny Hinn as being my favorite TV preacher. And,
I really disliked the continual criticisms of Benny Hinn by the Baptists. I
am a Pentecostal type Christian myself.
I did hear them asking the people in the audience to consider giving one
thousand dollars apiece to his ministry. I don't have much to say though
other than the TV special on dateline being believable to me. And, I really
think every Christian in the world should set through that Dateline TV
special that they did on Benny Hinn. I thought that it made him look no
better than Jim Baker myself, but I don't want to judge him. However, after
seeing that Dateline special about him, he really did appear different to me
speaking as non-judgementally as possible.
"David Matthieu P.P." <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:avp1vi$hr0i3$1...@ID-166711.news.dfncis.de...
> Benny Hinn proudly explained how he was involved
> in an incident with Customs Agents in a Chicago Airport:
>
> 'Those people are mean up in Chicago, just because
> I am a preacher they gave me a hard time. I told that
> customs man, I want to see your supervisor!When I
> got to the supervisor's office he said to me, "You're
> just like [Jim] Baker." That made me so angry - if I
> could have killed him, I would have!' (Benny Hinn)
>
> Even though Benny Hinn has been teaching he is a part of
> God with all the Power of God, when he was compared to
> Jim Baker he has shown his lack of Humility and Wisdom.
> Furthermore having in mind the latest scandals that are now
> shaking his Ministry, instead of confessing if he could he
> would have killed a Chief US Customs Agent, Benny Hinn
> should have taken heed to the prophetic warning emanating
> from this incident.
>
> Unfortunately having no consideration for the calls to
> moderation, this is not the only time that Benny Hinn
> openly expressed his anger toward people he considers
> enemies of his ''divine'' Authority. Completely ignoring
> the injunction of the Lord Jesus Christ to pray for our
> enemies, the powerful prophet does not hide that he wishes
> death to all Christians who dare criticize his ''divine''
> teachings. With all the spiritual powers conferred unto
> him, the Charismatic Leader has been boldly preaching a
> new Gospel of intimidation. While pointing his menacing
> finger at his Critics, the anointed Mogul conveyed to his
> followers a scary message comparable to the violent
> manifesto of a radical Islamist.
>
> "Somebody's attacking me because of something I'm
> teaching. Let me tell you something, brother: You
> watch it! ...You know, I've looked for one verse in
> the Bible; I just can't seem to find it. Once verse
> that said, 'If you don't like them, kill them.' I
> really wish I could find it! (Benny Hinn on TBN)
>
> I have been reading the Bible for quite a while, and never
> once I came across one verse that says, 'If you don't like
> them, kill them.' The attentive readers who are mindful of
> the Arabic ''human'' lineage of Benny Hinn should have
> noticed that the angry Prophet was referring to the Quran.
> Furthermore the Declaration by the anointed leader that
> sooner or later the Churches of America would become
> militant is perfectly harmonizing with a Quranic
> Perspective.
>
> is showing us in the Psalms, that the body of Jesus
> Christ in America will sooner or later become
> militant, and say: 'We've had it! You touch us one
> more time and, DROP DEAD BROTHER.' (Benny Hinn)
>
> The Mega financial Empire of Benny Hinn and his strong
> influence over the religious masses have encouraged him to
> pursue the vision of a militant American Church foreseen to
> be as destructive as the fanatical factions of Islam. Already
> today, through out the United States, the scary message of
> hatred for discerning Christians, called Heresy Hunters by
> Benny Hinn, is being echoed by numerous Congregations and
> Church Leaders. Having mesmerized the multitudes with his
> power to wield legions of spirits, Benny Hinn has completely
> overturned the religious Traditions of America. Propagating
> a godless anointing preaching an antichrist Gospel and
> ministering false healing, Benny Hinn has maliciously
> indoctrinated his followers into hating discerning Christians
> considered as ''accusers of the Brethren''.
>
> No matter how powerful and threatening the militant Church of
> Benny Hinn may become, true Christianity shall not disappear
> in America. Even in the eventuality that the Prophet is not
> halted in his madness and the looming specter of Persecution
> does become reality, the voice of true Christianity shall
> always be heard in America.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7192/page4.html
>
>
>
>
>
David Matthieu P.P.
original article was not posted. At least you should have the
courage to post the whole text for the readers:
BENNY HINN'S QURANIC VISION
I have been reading the Bible for quite a while, and never
once I came across one verse that says, 'If you don't like
them, kill them.' The attentive readers who are mindful of
the Arabic ''human'' lineage of Benny Hinn should have
noticed that the angry Prophet was referring to the Quran.
Furthermore the Declaration by the anointed leader that
sooner or later the Churches of America would become
militant is perfectly harmonizing with a Quranic
Perspective.
'Now I'm going to tell you that God prophetically
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7192/page4.html
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
news:10424321...@arakis.wincom.net...
Pastor Frank
news:v250i4j...@corp.supernews.com...
> I drove to Chicago from eau Claire Wisconsin just to see Benny Hinn.
> But, I will have to say that the special on dateline about Benny Hinn was
> totally believable to me.
> I really liked Benny Hinn a lot too before seeing that Dateline special
on
> TV about him. I thought of Benny Hinn as being my favorite TV preacher.
And,
> I really disliked the continual criticisms of Benny Hinn by the Baptists.
I
> am a Pentecostal type Christian myself.
> I did hear them asking the people in the audience to consider giving one
> thousand dollars apiece to his ministry. I don't have much to say though
> other than the TV special on dateline being believable to me. And, I
really
> think every Christian in the world should set through that Dateline TV
> special that they did on Benny Hinn. I thought that it made him look no
> better than Jim Baker myself, but I don't want to judge him. However,
after
> seeing that Dateline special about him, he really did appear different to
me
> speaking as non-judgementally as possible.
>
should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing, though
always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ tells
us to do?
I don't know about Benny Hinn, and I don't particularly care. Leave it
to atheists to find sufficient evidence against Benny to convict him in a
court of law. What interests me and fascinates, nay captivates me is the
glory and saving grace of Jesus Christ. We Christians are to spread the
"Good News" of His coming and the advent of the Kingdom of Heaven, not the
bad news of man's failings and shortcomings and deserving hell.
--
Pastor Frank
Mt:11:12: And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of
heaven suffereth violence, and the assertive take it by force.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
> news:10424321...@arakis.wincom.net...
> >
> > Your whole long post is devoted to creating paranoia in people. You
> have
> > not only demonized Benny Hinn but most of the simple faithful. Now you
> > demonize Islam and give credence to George Bush and his war on Islam,
> > without providing references we can check with the Quranic search engine
> > in: http://www.islamworld.net/
> > Most of us Christians are sufficiently literate Biblically, that
those
> > spreading rumours and innuendo, doom and gloom are not getting much
> > attention, for unlike you, our focus is on the glories of Christ, not on
> > the failings of men.
>
> original article was not posted. At least you should have the
> courage to post the whole text for the readers:
>
answers to questions. We Christians know that all such writing is inspired
by Satan, and will disregard it.
I would strongly suggest you stop digging for dirt, and start digging
for wisdom. If you have any proof of wrong-doing against Benny Hill, do your
duty as a citizen and lay charge before the proper authorities. Rumours of
wrong-doing, unsubstantiated and un-referenced articles of militant atheists
just won't cut it. They only help to make you look like a simple-minded and
easily duped fool.
--
Pastor Frank
THE MINIONS OF SATAN
Jesus in John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in
the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he
speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mt:12:34: O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?
for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mt:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth
good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil
things.
-----------------------------
Keenan Clay Wilkie
ATTENTION ALL:
It should be known that Pastor Frank, while claiming to be a Christian,
engages in blatant dishonesty and shows of pride and arrogance.
Below is an archived USENET posting of mine where I ask two things of
Frank that he has so far refused to address. The first is where he
mistook a reference to Christian Scientists, as in followers of the Chuch
of Christ Scientist, as a reference to scientists who happen to be
Christians and called someone a liar over the claim made, even though the
claim was absolutely true. The second is a bit older, in which Frank
accuses me of "hating democracy" simply because I pointed out that
'argument ad numerum' is a logical fallacy. In the former case, Frank has
not only steadfastly refused to admit his mistake and apologize for
calling Alan Hboson a liar, but he has also since claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" was invented by atheists in an attempt to demonize
all Christians who happen to be scientists. In the latter case, Frank has
steadfastly refused to address the issue of why he brought up the issue of
democracy (where decisions are made via majority vote) versues argument ad
numerum (the logical fallacy where the truth is asserted solely on the
basis of majority vote in a position).
Judge for yourself if below is an example of a 'good' and 'humble' man of
Christ:
From: dark...@iglou.com (Keenan Wilkie)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.bible,alt.christnet.philosophy,alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: NBC exposes BENNY HINN
Date: 10 Jan 2003 13:19:55 -0800
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"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message news:<10421381...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> "Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
> news:3e1c8f3a$1...@news.iglou.com...
> > Alan A. Hobson <aho...@indyDOTrr.com> writes:
> >
> > >On Mon, 06 Jan 2003 23:51:15 -0600, Christopher Atkins <o...@kc.rr.com>
> > >pontificated:
> >
> > [snip an honest, even if slightly terse in a few spots, answering of a
> > series of questions]
> >
> > >Most Christians have no problems answering these questions since they
> > >are standard tenets of their faith. Pastor Frank, for some reason,
> > >can't or refuses to do so. Frank appears to completely discount the
> > >OT calling it "Judaism" and refuses to acknowledge any realtionship
> > >between Jesus and Jehovah. I'm not sure what religion Frank follows
> > >but it is certainly not christianity as it is generally practiced.
> > >Maybe we should just call it Frankianity or Fian for short.
> >
> > I noticed that Frank never admitted his mistake when he confused the
> > reference of Christian Scientists refusing medical treatments with the
> > JW's prohibition on blood transfusions. It was a pretty odd error, as it
> > clearly demonstrated Frank's ignorance, but even though numerous people
> > pointed it out, Pastor Frank never once addressed his error. I wonder if
> > his religion requires a certain level of arrogant dishonesty.
> >
> The followers of Christian Science are NOT Christian scientists. Get
> used to it.
Nobody said that they were, Frank, but the informal name of their sect
is "Christian Scientist" and they refer to themselves as 'Christian
Scientists'. You're not fooling anyone when you try to lie about your
ignorance.
The original comment was regarding the practice of Christian
Scientists of refusing medical treatment. You responded claiming that
no scientist, Christian or otherwise, would do such a thing.
Let me refresh your memory. The original posting from Alan Hobson
that triggered your mistake can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cc5f1v83bbip9c7g226f8gkdhn4037c552%404ax.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
And let me quote the relevant portion:
"I DO care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by
refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird
interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book. "
Now some might object to the shorthand term 'Xian' in stead of
'Christian', but you cannot deny that Alan Hobson made the entire term
out to be a proper name because he did capitalize the word 'Scientist'
in the title. He was referring to the Church of Christ Scientist, as
numerous people pointed out after you made the post here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1041795558.190513%40arakis.wincom.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
When you in DIRECT RESPONSE to the quoted text above said:
"Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise
promotes JW prohibition against blood."
It is very clear that you are confusing Alan's reference to the Church
of Christ Scientist's shunning of all modern medical treatment with
the Jehovah's Witnesses' shunning of blood transfusion. Now, this
error speaks somewhat of your ignorance, but some here are willing to
believe that you merely made a hasty mistake. Were you to have said
as much, likely not everyone would doubt your word. However, you
refused to even once address your error. You refused to admit your
mistake because you are too much of a coward and too much of a liar to
ever admit that you've erred. That you, in this latest posting,
continue to ignore your own error and accuse me of making statements
that I've never made is just further proof that you, Pastor Frank, are
a shameless liar.
Why can't you admit that you made a mistake, Frank? Why can't you
apologize to Alan for calling him a liar over a statement that clearly
was not a lie? Why do you make an unprovoked attack against me rather
than admit your error and move on?
I'll just be saving this post for future reference along with the one
where you accused me of hating democracy even though I never said any
such thing.
Oh, btw, that reminds me...
Say, Frank, I've been meaning (for months now) to bring this back up
to you.
Back in May, 2002, a person named Alan Wostenberg presented the
argument that Christianity is somehow 'more valid' because of the
number of followers that it has. I countered that he was appealing to
argument ad numerum, which is a logical fallacy because a logical
statement is not true or false simply based on how many people believe
it to be true. You replied making a comment about a majority vote and
accused me of hating democracy. Since I wasn't discussing democracy,
but was addressing a genuine logical fallacy, I asked if you were
being deliberately dishonest or if you were just too stupid to
understand the difference between a 'democracy' and 'appeal to
numbers'. the post can be seen here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e044628f.0205311043.2eb75df9%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Which is it Frank? Were you being dishonest, or are you just stupid?
I can't see any other possibilities, but feel free to suggest one if
you an think of one.
--
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29
Thinking about buying the Back To The Future DVD set? Be warned! See
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113387
for more information (and don't be an idiot by buying fullscreen instead).
Keenan Clay Wilkie
> As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
>errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing, though
>always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ tells
>us to do?
Pastor Frank's statements regarding atheists are lies, but that's not
surprising. Anyone who has studied what Frank has said should know that
he is not to be trusted.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
> As usual with atheist hate polemics, you don't supply any references nor
>answers to questions. We Christians know that all such writing is inspired
>by Satan, and will disregard it.
Was your refusal to address my questions regarding your baseless
accusation that I hate democracy inspired by Satan?
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
> >
> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
though
> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
tells
> >us to do?
>
> Pastor Frank's statements regarding atheists are lies,
Thanks for proving my point. Now start supporting something or someone
like Christ and prove me wrong about atheists like you doing nothing but
find faults and errors in people and things.
--
Pastor Frank
Mt:28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Jack
>"David Matthieu P.P." <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:avp1vi$hr0i3$1...@ID-166711.news.dfncis.de...
>>
>> I have been reading the Bible for quite a while, and never
>> once I came across one verse that says, 'If you don't like
>> them, kill them.' The attentive readers who are mindful of
>> the Arabic ''human'' lineage of Benny Hinn should have
>> noticed that the angry Prophet was referring to the Quran.
>> Furthermore the Declaration by the anointed leader that
>> sooner or later the Churches of America would become
>> militant is perfectly harmonizing with a Quranic
>> Perspective.
>>
> Your whole long post is devoted to creating paranoia in people. You have
>not only demonized Benny Hinn but most of the simple faithful. Now you
>demonize Islam and give credence to George Bush and his war on Islam,
>without providing references we can check with the Quranic search engine in:
You cannot demonize Islam because it is already Satanic.
Frank, your history of hating God's Chosen people, the Jews has been well
documented in this group. Your bizzare attempts to justify Islamic terrorism
against the US and Israel make no sence, but you keep ranting. The Koran is
evil and Islam is evil.
George Bush has not been a friend of Israel, and has not committed the US to
punish those who attacked us on 9-11 (all Islam especially Saudi Arabia), but
at least he may end the ten year war against Iraq. Since the "Desert Storm"
invasion, the US has carried out acts of war against Iraq that have not
settled anything. Maybe after the Iraqi dictator is dead we can get out of
Iraq or anexx the oilfields.
you want verses?
Here is a whole bunch is a very good article:
With what has happened in New York and Washington, I have been shocked that
Christians are still unaware of the danger posed by Islam. Most Christian
Americans try to evaluate the Muslim by Christian standards. Muslim standards
are very different from American standards.
Many people are confused about Islam. This makes sense because Muslims are
making conflicting statments about their religion. The only way to know what
they really believe is to check the Koran (their "holy" book).
I researched in the Koran. I found many verses that are very disturbing. I
was so prfoundly troubled by the viciousness of the hatred found in the Koran.
Let me share with you some passages from the Koran that explain the Muslim's
motivations behind the bombings. There is also part of a Friday sermon from a
mainstream Islamic religious leader, which explains how they interpret the
verses cited, and will help you to understand how the Koran shapes the
thinking of a Muslim.
Sura 9, Verse 30
"The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of
GOD," while the Christians said,
"Jesus is the son of GOD!" These
are blasphemies uttered by their
mouths. They thus match the
blasphemies of those who have
disbelieved in the past. Allah condemns them.
They have surely deviated."
Sura 9, Verse 36
"The count of months, as far as
Allah is concerned, is twelve. This
has been Allah's law, since the day
He created the heavens and the
earth. Four of them are sacred.
This is the perfect religion; you shall
not wrong your souls (by fighting)
during the Sacred Months. However,
you may declare all-out Jihad against
the idol worshipers (even during the
Sacred Months), when they declare
jihad against you, and know that
Allah is on the side of the righteous."
(A previous verse (9:30) defines Christians and Messianic Jews as Idol
worshipers. It should also be noted that the Koran teaches that Jews and
Christians who are aware of Islam are at "Jihad" with "Allah," and by
extension the Muslims, based on the fact that Jews and Christians exist and
refuse to convert to Islam. Jews, Christians and Muslims are referred to as
"People of Scripture" in the Koran because all three religions received
Scripture. Jews and Christians are thought of as living blasphemies for not
becoming Muslim.)
The next passage tells that Jews and Christians cannot be friends of Muslims
unless they accept the validity of Islam. To put it more directly if a Jew or
Christian is religious and believes that Judaism or Christianity is true and
thus better than Islam he is an enemy of the Muslims.
Sura 5, verse 51:
"O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies;
these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves
with these belong with them. Allah does not guide the transgressors."
Verse 57 explaims the word "certain."
Sura 5, verse 57:
"O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients
of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion,
nor shall you befriend the disbelievers (in this Holy Quran).
You shall reverence Allah, if you are really believers."
(A Christian or Jew who refuses to convert to Islam is effectively mocking
Islam and claiming that Christianity or Judaism is superior to Islam. Note:
the parenthetical specification is a Muslim addition, found in the translation
of the Koran that I used, it is not my addition.)
The next passage tells of what a Muslim is allowed to do to anyone whom they
encounter who does not believe in the Koran, and the rewards for those who die
thus serving "Allah." Verse 4 is particularly sick; apparently, "Allah" wants
people to fight in his name. The Sura discusses the end of the world and the
war between "Allah" and the "evil" non-Muslims.
Sura 47, verses 2-6
"2. Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent
down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits their sins,
and blesses them with contentment.
3. This is because those who disbelieve are following falsehood, while those
who believe are following the truth from their Lord. Allah thus cites for the
people their examples.
4. If you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you
take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war
ends. Had Allah willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But
He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of
Allah, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.
5. He will guide them, and bless them with contentment.
6. He will admit them into Paradise, that He described to them."
How could any christian think that the Muslims are not dedicated to the murder
of all Christians and Jews? The only answer is: "ignorance!" If Christians,
and all Americans were aware of the evil of Islam, we would be a lot safer!
Sura 3, Verse 82:
"Those who reject this (Quranic prophecy) are the evil ones."
NOTE: The parenthetical specification was in the translation of the Koran that
I used, not my own addition.
This verse goes beyong simply claiming that Islam is superior to other
religions. All religious people believe that their religion/sect/denomination
is in some way better than others, but very few condemn all other faiths as
"evil." Since the Koran gives the Muslim permission to do horrible things to
the "evil people," it is important to see that these "evil people" are all
non-Muslims.
Sura 47, verses 2-6
"2. Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was
sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits
their sins, and blesses them with contentment.
3. This is because those who disbelieve
are following falsehood, while those
who believe are following the truth
from their Lord. Allah thus cites for
the people their examples.
4. If you encounter those who
disbelieve, you may strike the necks.
If you take them as captives you may
set them free or ransom them, until
the Jihad ends. Had Allah willed, He
could have granted you victory, with-
out war. But He thus tests you by
one another. As for those who get
killed in the cause of Allah, He will
never put their sacrifice to waste.
5. He will guide them, and bless them
with contentment.
6. He will admit them into Paradise,
that He described to them."
There is more denouncing belief in the divine nature of Jesus.
This material includes the claim that at the final judgment Jesus/Yshu`a will
be the accuser who condemns all Christians to damnation for not becoming
Muslim.
Sura 4, verses 157-159.
"157. And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus,
son of Mary, the messenger of Allah. In fact,
they never killed him, they never
crucified him-they were made to think that they did.
All factions who are disputing in
this matter are full of doubt
concerning this issue. They possess
no knowledge; they only conjecture.
For certain, they never killed him.
158. Instead, Allah raised him to Him;
Allah is Almighty, Most Wise.
159. Everyone among the people of
the scripture was required to
believe in him before his death.
On the Day of Resurrection, he
will be a witness against them."
Of course there are many verses that make the usual Islamic claim that all
Christians (All who believe in the divinity of the Messiah) are
idol-worshipers.
How do these verses effect the actions of the Muslims?
They have prompted the Arab invasion of Israel. These invaders call
themselves "palestinian" and claim that they were displaced from Israel in
1948. Historically Israel was 60% Jewish in 1920 under the British occupancy
of Israel, before Jewish immigration back to Israel began.
The following excerpts, broadcasted on PA TV, are from the Friday sermon
[August 3, 2001] given by Sheik Ibrahim Madhi at the Sheik 'Ijlin Mosque in
Gaza:
"Let the Mujaheedin saturate this blessed land with their pure and untainted
blood. Then, the Jews will see miracles from us."
"A young man said to me: 'I am 14 years old, and I have four years left before
I blow myself up amongst the Jews.' I said to him: Oh son, I ask Allah to
give you and myself Martyrdom...'"
"The Koran is very clear on this: 'The greatest enemies of the Islamic nation
are the Jews, may Allah fight them...'"
"Whoever can fight them with his weapons, should go out [to the battle];
whoever can fight them with a machinegun, should go out; whoever can fight
them with a sword or a knife, should go out; whoever can fight them with his
hands, should go out; This is our destiny."
"We blow them up in Hadera, we blow them up in Tel Aviv and in Netanya, and
in this way, Allah establishes us as rulers over these gangs of vagabonds."
"In several years, Allah willing, we will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, to
Jaffa as conquerors. To Haifa as conquerors, to Ashkelon as conquerors. We are
certain that victory is near..."
"Blessings for whoever assaulted a soldier... Blessings for whoever has
raised his sons on the education of Jihad and Martyrdom; blessings for
whoever has saved a bullet in order to stick it in a Jew's head..."
Christians and Jews worship the same God. Some Jews do not acknowledge the
Messiah - some do, but we all understand the morality taught by God. The God
of the Bible is defined by His personality, His love, His ethics, and His
perfection. The "Allah" of the Koran is shown to lie to the Jews, make a
mistake about sending Jesus who was incompetent according to the Koran (They
claim that His mission was to convert all humanity to Islam), and who promotes
violence against people who do not worship him. The Koran says that "Allah"
dissolved the covenants made with the Jews and with the Christians. The
"Allah" of Islam is NOT the God of Judaism and Christianity.
Sura 5, Verses 12-14
"12. Allah had taken a covenant
from the Children of Israel,
and we raised among them twelve
patriarchs. And Allah said,
"I am with you, so long as you
observe the Contact Prayers (Salat),
give the obligatory charity (Zakat),
and believe in My messengers and
respect them, and continue to lend
Allah a loan of righteousness.
I will then remit your sins,
and admit you into gardens with
flowing streams. Anyone who
disbelieves after this, has indeed
strayed off the right path.
[CENTER] Consequences of Violating God's Covenant
13. It was a consequence of their
violating the covenant that we
condemned them, and we caused their hearts
to become hardened. Consequently,
they took the words out of context,
and disregarded some of the commandments
given to them. You will continue to witness
betrayal from them, excepting a few of them.
You shall pardon them, and disregard them.
Allah loves those who are benevolent."
Note that Allah must be bribed with favors in order to keep his word, But God
keeps His word even if all mankind become liars. Also notice that only Jews
who abandon belief in God and accept Islam may be forgiven for being born
Jewish.
"[CENTER] Christians, too, Must Obey Allah's Messenger [Mohamed]
14. Also from those who said, "We are Christian,"
we took their covenant.
But they disregarded some of
the commandments given to them.
Consequently, we condemned them
to animosity and hatred among themselves,
until the Day of Resurrection.
Allah will then inform them
of everything they had done."
So, according to the Koran both Christianity and Judaism have been abolished
by Allah.
The Koran breaks up humanity in two ways:
Spiritually: "The People of Scripture" (Jews Christians and Muslims), and the
"People without Scripture" (everyone else). Physically: "the Children of
Abraham" (Jews and Arabs), and the "Other Peoples" (Everyone else).
According to the Koran a person who has a reason for becoming Islamic and does
not convert to Islam is a walking blasphemy and an idolater. By their
breakdown of humanity, Jews have two reasons for converting to Islam and
Christians have one. Thus Jews are their first target, and Christians are
their second target
Adolf Hitler lost WWII because he made war on too many of his targets at the
same time. The Muslims have been more clever; they are taking their targets
one at a time. We must realize the danger and protect our selves from further
terrorist attacks.
All Christians and Jews must stand together against those who would take away
our freedom to worship the One True God.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
>news:3e235...@news.iglou.com...
>> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
>> >
>> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
>> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
>though
>> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
>tells
>> >us to do?
>>
>> Pastor Frank's statements regarding atheists are lies,
> Thanks for proving my point. Now start supporting something or someone
>like Christ and prove me wrong about atheists like you doing nothing but
>find faults and errors in people and things.
I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ
Scientist only by atheists in an attempt to disparage non-sect members who
happen to be both scientists and Christians. You've been proven wrong
here, as a website for the sect uses the term here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
Or are you going to claim that the website is really an atheist front,
part of some grand conspiracy? The depths of your dishonesty hasn't shown
any boundaries so far.
Note, Frank, that I'm only attacking you. I'm not going around these
Christian newsgroups and telling Christians that they are fools, because
that would be a presumptious statement. You, however, have proven
yourself to be a blatant liar, and I've documented it. You accused me of
hating democracy when I said no such thing and you called Alan Hobson a
liar because you misunderstood his statement and you've NEVER apologized
for it. He was NOT lying, Frank, but you are too arrogant and dishonest
to admit it. Your pride makes you lie, Frank.
I don't claim to be perfect, Frank, even though I know that you love to
lie and make up all kinds of stupid things about what atheists think and
what they do. I simply claim to be more honest than you. I am at least
willing to admit my mistakes. You, however, are so dishonest that when
your statements and obvious observable reality conflict that you will
insist that reality is in the wrong and that your statements were always
correct.
ATTENTION ALL:
It should be known that Pastor Frank, while claiming to be a Christian,
engages in blatant dishonesty and shows of pride and arrogance.
Below is an archived USENET posting of mine where I ask two things of
Frank that he has so far refused to address. The first is where he
mistook a reference to Christian Scientists, as in followers of the Chuch
of Christ Scientist, as a reference to scientists who happen to be
Christians and called someone a liar over the claim made, even though the
claim was absolutely true. The second is a bit older, in which Frank
accuses me of "hating democracy" simply because I pointed out that
'argument ad numerum' is a logical fallacy. In the former case, Frank has
not only steadfastly refused to admit his mistake and apologize for
calling Alan Hboson a liar, but he has also since claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" was invented by atheists in an attempt to demonize
all Christians who happen to be scientists, even though it is used by
supporters of the sect themselves as can be seen here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
In the latter case, Frank has steadfastly refused to address the issue of
why he brought up the issue of democracy (where decisions are made via
majority vote) versues argument ad numerum (the logical fallacy where the
truth is asserted solely on the basis of majority vote in a position).
Judge for yourself if below is an example of a 'good' and 'humble' man of
Christ:
From: dark...@iglou.com (Keenan Wilkie)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.bible,alt.christnet.philosophy,alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: NBC exposes BENNY HINN
Date: 10 Jan 2003 13:19:55 -0800
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"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message news:<10421381...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> "Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
the Nay Sayer
KJV
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING, ox
and sheep, camel and ass.
the Nay Sayer
Dark Jedi
>
> N...@Spam.org (Jack) wrote in message news:<v2au63t...@corp.supernews.com>...
> >
> >
> > Here is a whole bunch is a very good article:
> >
> >
>
> KJV
> 1 Samuel 15:3
> Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
> spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING, ox
> and sheep, camel and ass.
>
> the Nay Sayer
Ps 137:9
Happy is he that dasheth the little babies against the rocks.
--
"The basic Creationist strategy is thus: If Evolutionists point
out uncountable examples in nature, claim it isn't science
because it can't be reproduced in a lab. If Evolutionists
conduct successful experiments in a lab, claim it is irrelevant
because it wasn't in a natural environment."
- satyr, alt.atheism
Pastor Frank
news:v2au63t...@corp.supernews.com...
have
> >not only demonized Benny Hinn but most of the simple faithful. Now you
> >demonize Islam and give credence to George Bush and his war on Islam,
> >without providing references we can check with the Quranic search engine
in:
> > Most of us Christians are sufficiently literate Biblically, that
those
> >spreading rumours and innuendo, doom and gloom are not getting much
> >attention, for unlike you, our focus is on the glories of Christ, not on
the
> >failings of men.
>
> Frank, your history of hating God's Chosen people, the Jews has been well
> documented in this group. Your bizzare attempts to justify Islamic
terrorism
> against the US and Israel make no sence, but you keep ranting. The Koran
is
> evil and Islam is evil.
>
judge others, and the second most important commandment of Christ: The
Golden Rule of Jesus, that we are to care about others as we care for
ourselves. It is YOU who says, that these are merely the words of Rabbi
Hillel and can therefore be disregarded. Whose words are you proclaiming?
>
> George Bush has not been a friend of Israel, and has not committed the US
to
> punish those who attacked us on 9-11 (all Islam especially Saudi Arabia),
but
> at least he may end the ten year war against Iraq. Since the "Desert
Storm"
> invasion, the US has carried out acts of war against Iraq that have not
> settled anything. Maybe after the Iraqi dictator is dead we can get out
of
> Iraq or anexx the oilfields.
>
territory starting with the Jewish massacres of the natives as described in
the OT and later the Christian Crucades and later British colonial hegemony.
Few Arab invasions and empires are known. So your cries of alarm are mere
crocodile tears. But your morals become clear in your last suggestion, that
we steal their oil fields. LOL
>
> How could any christian think that the Muslims are not dedicated to the
murder
> of all Christians and Jews? The only answer is: "ignorance!" If
Christians,
> and all Americans were aware of the evil of Islam, we would be a lot
safer!
>
immorality and the murder of the innocent fruits of our immorality, i.e
millions of our own unborn children?
>
> How do these verses effect the actions of the Muslims?
> They have prompted the Arab invasion of Israel. These invaders call
> themselves "palestinian" and claim that they were displaced from Israel in
> 1948. Historically Israel was 60% Jewish in 1920 under the British
occupancy
> of Israel, before Jewish immigration back to Israel began.
>
and driving out the native Palestinian into refugee camps is a lie? Are
these refugees not originally from what is now Israel?
>
> Adolf Hitler lost WWII because he made war on too many of his targets at
the
> same time.
Are you bemoaning this sad fact?
The Muslims have been more clever; they are taking their targets
> one at a time. We must realize the danger and protect our selves from
further
> terrorist attacks.
> All Christians and Jews must stand together against those who would take
away
> our freedom to worship the One True God.
>
All you seem to worship is colonialism, the taking of land from natives
by force of arms. All else is mere pretext to that end, is it not? You also
sound like one with a "hook in his nose" the Bible speaks of, working to
fulfill prophesy in these last days before the end of the world in the
"fervent heat" of nuclear warfare.
Do you REALLY think we can trust impoverished Russians not to sell nukes
to rich Arabs, and do you REALLY think, they will not use those nukes to
mine our cities as long as we wage a colonial war against them them?
Read the below Gospel of Christ and tell us whether any colonialist or
anyone terrorizing a people like the natives of Palestine are being
terrorized, or even approves or encourages such action, will ever see the
KIngdom of God.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
> >"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
> >news:3e235...@news.iglou.com...
> >> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
> >> >
> >> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
> >> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults
and
> >> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
> >though
> >> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
> >> >tells us to do?
> >>
> >> Pastor Frank's statements regarding atheists are lies,
>
> > Thanks for proving my point. Now start supporting something or
someone
> >like Christ and prove me wrong about atheists like you doing nothing but
> >find faults and errors in people and things.
>
> I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
> "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ
I did no such thing. In fact, it was YOU who falsely call members of the
Christian Science cult "Christian scientists". But thanks again for proving
my point. You will demonize anything with that most hated word in atheism:
"Christ" in its name, will you not?
Btw our Christian scientists will beat the pants of your atheist
scientists any day. Wanna bet? LOL Now stop "wailing" unending complaints
in the "outer darkness" already and start supporting someone or something.
--
Pastor Frank
THE GOLDEN RULE
Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
31: And the second is alike, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Jack
Frank, YOU said that Jesus was just a fictional chatacter; so, you, as an
Atheist, do not really believe that he commanded anything. Frank, you are
only spreading Nazi Racism.
I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah is
the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and thus
not the same.
>>
>> George Bush has not been a friend of Israel, and has not committed the US
>to
>> punish those who attacked us on 9-11 (all Islam especially Saudi Arabia),
>but
>> at least he may end the ten year war against Iraq. Since the "Desert
>Storm"
>> invasion, the US has carried out acts of war against Iraq that have not
>> settled anything. Maybe after the Iraqi dictator is dead we can get out
>of
>> Iraq or anexx the oilfields.
>>
> There is a long history of Jewish and Christian invasion of Arab
>territory starting with the Jewish massacres of the natives as described in
>the OT and later the Christian Crucades and later British colonial hegemony.
>Few Arab invasions and empires are known. So your cries of alarm are mere
>crocodile tears. But your morals become clear in your last suggestion, that
>we steal their oil fields. LOL
Frank, are you stupid or crazy? Don't answer; you are too stupid AND crazy to
see your mental defects. Islamic agression began with Mohamed and has not
stopped. History records their attacks upon Christianity and their invasion
of Europe.
Frank if you believed in God, you would know that God says in the Bible
that all of the penensula where Sudi Arabia is belongs to the Jewish people,
from the middle of Sinai to the Euphrates River and north including all of
Turkey. If you were a Christian, you would recognize that the Arabs have no
right to the Israeli lands that they have stolen and that Israel is being more
than reasonable by only asking for a tiny fraction of their own God-given
land.
Frank, since the oil fields belong to Israel is is only justice to return them
to Israel. The US developed the oil fields using technology invented by
American Jews, and the Arabs have never repaid us. In fact they use oil money
to fund anti-American and Anti-Christian terrorism.
>>
>> How could any christian think that the Muslims are not dedicated to the
>murder
>> of all Christians and Jews? The only answer is: "ignorance!" If
>Christians,
>> and all Americans were aware of the evil of Islam, we would be a lot
>safer!
>>
> Tell us, why the Lord wants us "a lot safer", where we sanction sexual
>immorality and the murder of the innocent fruits of our immorality, i.e
>millions of our own unborn children?
What are you talking about?
If you are talking about abortion, that is another topic.
Frank if you understood English, you would know that there is no such thing as
an "unborn child." A fetus is not a child. If you knew the Bible, you would
know that a Fetus is the personal property of the husband of the pregnant
woman, and not a person (Exodus 21:22).
>>
>> How do these verses effect the actions of the Muslims?
>> They have prompted the Arab invasion of Israel. These invaders call
>> themselves "palestinian" and claim that they were displaced from Israel in
>> 1948. Historically Israel was 60% Jewish in 1920 under the British
>occupancy
>> of Israel, before Jewish immigration back to Israel began.
>>
> Are you saying, that the Stern Gang and other Jewish terrorists killing
>and driving out the native Palestinian into refugee camps is a lie? Are
>these refugees not originally from what is now Israel?
Yes, it is a lie!
First there is no such thing as a "palestinian" The word was not even used
until 1967. There is no linguistic, cultural religious or racial difference
that separates them from other Arabs. The are only distinguished by their
willingness to give their lives to commit genocide.
The Muslims were a minority in Israel when Israel was given indipendance from
Brittain. Of course prior to this Brittain stol four fiths of the land set
aside to re-establish Israel and gave it to the Arabs forming Transjordan. So
the Terrorists already have their indipendant state.
The Arab minority left Israel voluntarily to help in the genocide of the
Jewish people. since they gave up their occupation of Israeli land in order
to commit a crime against humanity, they have no claim on the land that God
says belongs to Israel.
>>
>> Adolf Hitler lost WWII because he made war on too many of his targets at
>the
>> same time.
>
> Are you bemoaning this sad fact?
So, Frank admits that he is a Nazi!
You actually say that it is "sad" that Hitler lost WWII! You are sick, Frank!
>
>The Muslims have been more clever; they are taking their targets
>> one at a time. We must realize the danger and protect our selves from
>further
>> terrorist attacks.
>> All Christians and Jews must stand together against those who would take
>away
>> our freedom to worship the One True God.
>>
Frank, I notice that YOU, who demanded quotes from the Koran to prove the evil
of Islam snipped those quotes out. Frank, you are wrong, Islam IS evil, and
the Koran prooves it.
Here is the article again:
How could any christian think that the Muslims are not dedicated to the murder
of all Christians and Jews? The only answer is: "ignorance!" If Christians,
and all Americans were aware of the evil of Islam, we would be a lot safer!
Sura 3, Verse 82:
How do these verses effect the actions of the Muslims?
They have prompted the Arab invasion of Israel. These invaders call
themselves "palestinian" and claim that they were displaced from Israel in
1948. Historically Israel was 60% Jewish in 1920 under the British occupancy
of Israel, before Jewish immigration back to Israel began.
The following excerpts, broadcasted on PA TV, are from the Friday sermon
Adolf Hitler lost WWII because he made war on too many of his targets at the
same time. The Muslims have been more clever; they are taking their targets
angelfire
should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing, though
always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ tells
us to do?
I only said that the TV PROGRAM dateline made it very clear that my HERO
BENNY HINN was clearly no better and maybe worse than JIM BAKER. That was
what the TV program DATELINE with the well known news people revealed by A
WHOLE LOT OF EVIDENCE UPON MORE EVIDENCE BEFORE HE WHOLE NATION.Where were
you? Search it out online.
But, the thing to remember if you claim to be a pastor in your name is
that JIM BAKER was brought down by JERRY FARWELL. Would you say someone
like Jerry Farwell is an atheist. He did it for something like what you are
doing in trying to funnel god's money to one place. Benny Hinn lives in a
three million dollar mansion in a place like the big winner of the last huge
lottery dreams about going to. He is in a gated community. And, Benny stays
in hotel suites that cost NOT hundreds a night; rather, its in the thousand
figures per night for a hotel room. They go in to their workers counting the
money after a crusade and personally pocket the 100 and 50 dollar bills, and
they could not provide any evidence to any healings from what I could gather
after dateline investigated it. The so called healed people died or else the
list goes on with the other investigated evidence that was done by dateline
and put on national tv for everyone to see. I would have to go on telling
all that dateline said to finish my statement.......
Would Jesus want JIM BAKER to go back into business again. The only
difference is that he went to prison. How about you. I don't think God would
want all people to be giving his money to one corrupt person.
Who would that be serving God??? Speak on God's behalf, please. ANd, do not
judge anyone again for your own good.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
news:10424932...@arakis.wincom.net...
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
>news:3e258...@news.iglou.com...
>> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
>> >"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
>> >news:3e235...@news.iglou.com...
>> >> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
>> >> >
>> >> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>> >> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults
>and
>> >> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
>> >though
>> >> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
>> >> >tells us to do?
>> >>
>> >> Pastor Frank's statements regarding atheists are lies,
>>
>> > Thanks for proving my point. Now start supporting something or
>someone
>> >like Christ and prove me wrong about atheists like you doing nothing but
>> >find faults and errors in people and things.
>>
>> I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
>> "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ
> I did no such thing.
You dishonestly snipped my entire quote. Let me reconstruct it for you so
that people can see just how far you will go to hide your arrogance and
dishonesty:
"You claimed that the term "Christian Scientist" is used to describe
members of the Church of Christ Scientist only by atheists in an attempt
to disparage non-sect members who happen to be both scientists and
Christians. You've been proven wrong here, as a website for the sect uses
the term here: http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
You see what you did, Frank? You made it look like I'd said that you
claimed that the term "Christian Scientists" is used to describe members
of the Church of Christ. However, I didn't say that at all. I said that
you accused atheists of being the only people who used the term "Christian
Scientist" to describe member sof the "Church of Christ Scientist", which
isn't at all the same thing as the "Church of Christ". I even provided
documentation that your claim was wrong at
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
And you cannot deny that you made the claim I attribute to you, since it
is documented here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1042499899.463285%40arakis.wincom.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Let me quote the words that you used with respect to the term "Christian
Scientist" (note the capital "S"):
""Common usage" ONLY by atheists out to vilify all Christians. How better
to make all research by real Christian scientists suspect, then to call
believers in Christian Science, "Christian scientists"? A sly move by
Satan's standards, but stupid in the eyes of God."
I'm going to document this claim of yours as yet another blatant lie on
your part. Your dishonesty knows no bounds, Frank. Do you believe your
lies, Frank? When you dishonestly snip my posts and quote me out of
context, do you believe the lies that you are creating?
>In fact, it was YOU who falsely call members of the
>Christian Science cult "Christian scientists".
No, Frank, you are lying again. I called them "Christian Scientists",
and I capitalized the "S" in "Scientist" because that is the proper name
for them. You are a liar to claim otherwise, but no one is surprised by
that. I'm just making sure that everyone knows that you are a liar
wherever you post. You're a liar, Frank. A bald-faced liar, and you
clearly aren't ashamed to show it. You are, however, ashamed to admit
your mistakes.
>But thanks again for proving
>my point. You will demonize anything with that most hated word in atheism:
>"Christ" in its name, will you not?
No, Frank. This has nothing to do with Christians. This originally
stated with a claim about "Christian Scientists", and Alan Hobson was very
clear that he was referring to members of the "Church of Christ Scientist"
despite your lies that the term is not used by anyone but atheists, and
now it has turned to an exposure of your blatant dishonesty. You have
lied, you've lied in this very message where you cut out words from my
statement to make it appear as though I was speaking of something other
than what I addressed. Fortunately, I'm not so stupid that I cannot
repost my original wording to show how truly dishonest you are, Frank.
> Btw our Christian scientists will beat the pants of your atheist
>scientists any day. Wanna bet? LOL
No one brought up scientists who happen to be Christian except for you,
Frank. Pretending that I was talking about scientists who happen to be
Christian and not members of the sect known as "Christian Scientists" is
not going to make it true, Frank. You are a liar to claim otherwise.
>Now stop "wailing" unending complaints
>in the "outer darkness" already and start supporting someone or something.
I'm supporting myself and Alan Hobson, Frank, because you have defamed us
both. In fact, you've now defamed me twice with this most recent
egregious lie against my character that I've so openly exposed for all
to see.
ATTENTION ALL:
It should be known that Pastor Frank, while claiming to be a Christian,
engages in blatant dishonesty and shows of pride and arrogance.
Below is an archived USENET posting of mine where I ask two things of
Frank that he has so far refused to address. The first is where he
mistook a reference to Christian Scientists, as in followers of the Chuch
of Christ Scientist, as a reference to scientists who happen to be
Christians and called someone a liar over the claim made, even though the
claim was absolutely true. The second is a bit older, in which Frank
accuses me of "hating democracy" simply because I pointed out that
'argument ad numerum' is a logical fallacy. In the former case, Frank has
not only steadfastly refused to admit his mistake and apologize for
calling Alan Hboson a liar, but he has also since claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" was invented by atheists in an attempt to demonize
all Christians who happen to be scientists, even though it is used by
supporters of the sect themselves as can be seen here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
In the latter case, Frank has steadfastly refused to address the issue of
why he brought up the issue of democracy (where decisions are made via
majority vote) versues argument ad numerum (the logical fallacy where the
truth is asserted solely on the basis of majority vote in a position).
Still unwilling to admit his error, Frank has since lied further.
Check this post here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1042705500.178522%40arakis.wincom.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
In it, Frank quotes me and replies as such:
> I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
> "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of
> Christ
I did no such thing. In fact, it was YOU who falsely call members of
the Christian Science cult "Christian scientists". But thanks again for
proving my point. You will demonize anything with that most hated word in
atheism: "Christ" in its name, will you not?
In here, it looks like I've tried to slander members of the Church of
Christ by associating them with "Christian Scientists". Except that Frank
has dishonestly cut out most of my statement. What I really said can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3e258e72_1%40news.iglou.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
What I really said was:
"I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ
Scientist only by atheists in an attempt to disparage non-sect members who
happen to be both scientists and Christians. "
And I even offered documentation that Frank was wrong here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
Oh, and in case you're wondering, Frank did make the claim that only
atheists use the term "Christian Scientist" to describe members of the
Church of Christ Scientist here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1042499899.463285%40arakis.wincom.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Where he said:
"Common usage" ONLY by atheists out to vilify all Christians. How better
to make all research by real Christian scientists suspect, then to call
believers in Christian Science, "Christian scientists"? "
Note Frank's inherent dishonesty throughout. No one in the threads
(please feel free to research them) used the term "Christian scientist"
EXCEPT for Frank. Everyone who referenced members of that sect properly
capitalized it as "Christian Scientist". Frank was caught in a lie, and
he continually tries to rewrite history to get out of it.
Anyway, as you can see Frank is lying either way. If he's replying to my
quote as it originally stood, then I've proven him wrong above, where I
show that he did make the claim I attributed do him. If he's replying to
only what he quoted of me, disregarding what he snipped, then he's
dishonestly quoting me out of context, completely changing the meaning of
what I wrote. In either case, Frank is exposed as unashamedly dishonest.
Note that I am not accusing all Christians as being as dishonest as Frank.
I really don't think that it's possible, I think that Frank's arrogance
and dishonesty is some kind of rare mental problem. I just wish it to be
known that people conversing with Frank can expect him to lie and distort
context, and that nothing that he says can be trusted. My argument here
is with Frank, not with Christ or with Christians in general. I know that
Frank will claim otherwise but, really, can you take the word of someone
who is so documented as a liar?
From: dark...@iglou.com (Keenan Wilkie)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.bible,alt.christnet.philosophy,alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: NBC exposes BENNY HINN
Date: 10 Jan 2003 13:19:55 -0800
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"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message news:<10421381...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> "Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
Angelfire
Atheist, do not really believe that he commanded anything. Frank, you are
only spreading Nazi Racism."
If the above is true, then Frank should not be pointing his finger at anyone
about being an atheist. Is Frank actually trying to give some input on
anything at all, or is he only trying to stir up strife about everything.
"Jack" <N...@Spam.org> wrote in message
news:v2depfb...@corp.supernews.com...
the Nay Sayer
> evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah is
> the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and thus
> not the same.
>
>
Well, it would also seem that the jewish god YHWH is not the same by
definition as the Christian god Jehova being that the jewish god has
NO son.
>
> Frank if you believed in God, you would know that God says in the Bible
> that all of the penensula where Sudi Arabia is belongs to the Jewish people,
If that's true then why doesn't your 'God of the Bible' give them back
ALL of their land? Does your 'God of the Bible' not make good on his
promises?
> Frank, since the oil fields belong to Israel is is only justice to return them
> to Israel.
Why doesn't your 'God' return them?
>
> Frank, I notice that YOU, who demanded quotes from the Koran to prove the evil
> of Islam snipped those quotes out. Frank, you are wrong, Islam IS evil, and
> the Koran prooves it.
>
> I researched in the Koran. I found many verses that are very disturbing. I
> was so prfoundly troubled by the viciousness of the hatred found in the Koran.
>
>
> Let me share with you some passages from the Koran that explain the Muslim's
> motivations behind the bombings. There is also part of a Friday sermon from a
> mainstream Islamic religious leader, which explains how they interpret the
> verses cited, and will help you to understand how the Koran shapes the
> thinking of a Muslim.
>
KJV
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING, ox
and sheep, camel and ass.
Ps 137:9
Happy is he that dasheth the little babies against the rocks.
the Nay Sayer
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
> As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
>errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing, though
>always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ tells
>us to do?
Yet another lying Christian.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>Yet another lying Christian.
While it appears as though "angelfire" wrote the above, he actually was
quoting and just did not use standard quoting practices. The paragraph to
which you are responding was written by "Pastor Frank", who is already
well-documented as a liar.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
Do you care so little of yourself that you openly disgrace yourself by
lying so blatantly, Frank?
Below is a previous response to just one of many of Frank's attempts to
weasel out of his lie:
--
Pastor Frank
> In article <10427054...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> >
> > I seek to proclaim the words of Jesus, that you shall be judged as you
> >judge others, and the second most important commandment of Christ: The
> >Golden Rule of Jesus, that we are to care about others as we care for
> >ourselves. It is YOU who says, that these are merely the words of Rabbi
> >Hillel and can therefore be disregarded. Whose words are you proclaiming?
>
> Frank, YOU said that Jesus was just a fictional chatacter; so, you, as an
> Atheist, do not really believe that he commanded anything. Frank, you are
> only spreading Nazi Racism.
> I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
> evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah
is
> the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and
thus
> not the same.
>
without offering the slightest bit of evidence. My whole argument with
atheists is that Jesus IS REAL and NOT "fictional".
Your hate has addled your brain, and Jesus promises that you will be
treated as you treat others. May God have mercy on you.
Pastor Frank
>
> As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
> should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
> errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
though
> always short on evidence admissible in court.
> But is that what Christ tells us to do?
>
> I only said that the TV PROGRAM dateline made it very clear that my HERO
> BENNY HINN was clearly no better and maybe worse than JIM BAKER. That was
> what the TV program DATELINE with the well known news people revealed by
A
> WHOLE LOT OF EVIDENCE UPON MORE EVIDENCE BEFORE HE WHOLE NATION.Where were
> you? Search it out online.
> But, the thing to remember if you claim to be a pastor in your name is
> that JIM BAKER was brought down by JERRY FARWELL. Would you say
someone
> like Jerry Farwell is an atheist. He did it for something like what you
are
> doing in trying to funnel god's money to one place.
Thanks for proving my point. Instead of praising the Lord you spend your
sorry life condemning man.
One can always recognise the Satan-possessed by the readiness with which
they believe every accusation atheists and assorted God-haters dish up, and
their eagerness to dwell on the failings of man, rather than on the
perfections of God. LOL
The only thing of any interest is the perfection of God in Jesus Christ,
and how we become perfect in Him to the glory of God, our most holy and
loving Father which is in Heaven.
Jack
>"Jack" <N...@Spam.org> wrote in message
>news:v2depfb...@corp.supernews.com...
>> In article <10427054...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
><hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
>> >
>> > I seek to proclaim the words of Jesus, that you shall be judged as you
>> >judge others, and the second most important commandment of Christ: The
>> >Golden Rule of Jesus, that we are to care about others as we care for
>> >ourselves. It is YOU who says, that these are merely the words of Rabbi
>> >Hillel and can therefore be disregarded. Whose words are you proclaiming?
>>
>> Frank, YOU said that Jesus was just a fictional chatacter; so, you, as an
>> Atheist, do not really believe that he commanded anything. Frank, you are
>> only spreading Nazi Racism.
>> I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
>> evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah
>is
>> the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and
>thus
>> not the same.
>>
> Now there is no doubt you are one of Satan's minions, for you accuse
>without offering the slightest bit of evidence. My whole argument with
>atheists is that Jesus IS REAL and NOT "fictional".
Frank, your bear false witness again. On several occasions, I have posted
quotes of you saying that God and Jesus were fictional inventions to teach
morality. I will post again because of your lie:
A person posing as a Christian keeps posting bizzare statment and insulting
Atheists without cause. He (I am assuming here) Calls himself "Pastor Frank;"
this despite the fact that he is not a Pastor. He also calls anyone who
disagrees with Him an "Atheist" as if he thought that this was a vile thing.
I say "...as if..." because This "frank" person has denounced the existance of
God. He has also made wild accusations about other people being on drugs,
commiting immoral sexual acts, being in league with Satan, and other things.
Frank's bizzare posts have the effect of pushing people away from seeking God
because Frank commits so many immoral actions in his posts alone. He has
supported Nazi propaganda in various News groups and makes unfounded
accusations against Israel. He has posted anti-Semitic slurs as if they were
Christian theology, as if blind Hatred was something that the Messiah taught.
On the surface these may appear to be the actions of a fanatical, uneducated,
mentally impared person, or maybe a person with severe psychological problems.
However, from time to time Frank has let his guard down and let his real
beliefs slip out. Or maybe, it is all part of his plan to make Christians
look foolish? It appears That Frank either does not believe in God or that he
is a knowing devotee of Satan. Why would I say that? Because Frank has
denounced the existance of God. Even the most ignorant of Christians would
never denounce God's existance!
Here are the quotes with references:
http://groups.google.
com/groups?q=g:
thl416064742d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=7kf6ub%24ele%249%40nntp1.
uunet.ca
>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>"Satan is the personification or anthropomorphization of evil.
>>How is it you can't understand such a simple literary device?
>>Or do you really believe that evil does NOT exist?"
If Satan does not exist, what about God?
But even worse, if Frank can convince people that Satan does not exist they
will not be on their guard against the evil one. Hmm...
but more to the point:
http://groups.google.
com/groups?q=g:
thl416064742d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=7kmcph%24kuu%244%40nntp2.
uunet.ca
>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>"The NT describes both God and Satan as a spirit, meaning
>>something like a particular attitude, a holy (wholesome,
>>healthy) and an un-holy attitude, which however both only
>>come into reality if that attitude is translated into
>>action by a person. Hence seeing both God and Satan as
>>persons.
>>
>>If you look at the NT closely, you will find many
>>extraordinary treasures of great beauty and wisdom.
>>And forget about the "mythological creatures" already,
>>they don't exist."
So, Frank says that God is a "mytholigical creature."
No Christian could possibly say that!
... and how about this exchange:
http://groups.google.
com/groups?q=god+literary+device+author:pastor+author:
frank&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=7jcrmp%24oop%241%40goblin.
uunet.ca&rnum=12
>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>Tiglath wrote:
>>>You can stretch the word god as a figure of speech,
>>>but that is an occasional literary device
>>>which does not change the primary definition of the
>>>word, but it is used only to add power to a particular
>>>sentence. But that is not what you are after; you want
>>>to legitimize that god is "what we like to do best."
>>>This is not word power, but a power outage.
>>>
>>Don't blame me bud, it's the NT and the expert on God
>>the Father, his Son Jesus Christ which describe the
>>word "God" to mean a spirit (not a ghost nor divine
>>sentient entity) (John 4:24), the spirit of love etc.
>>as describes as the "fruits of the spirit" above.
>>So, the "divine entity" of your imagination you don't
>>want to believe in is strictly a strawman.
So, Frank tries to win over an Atheist by claiming that
God does not exist? Is that a valid reason for an Atheist
to convert to Christianity? Or maybe Frank thinks that
tricking the Atheists into thinking that Christianity is
a form of Atheism is a valid way to save souls?
Got another Frank quote:
>news:cbadfc8f.02092...@posting.google.com...
>Are you having problems with ancient philosophical
>symbolism and metaphor? Looks like you anthropomorphise
>the word "god" into some invisible powerful space
>creature / warrior a la Zeus or Odin, and Satan in that
>funny looking guy in the red body stocking, sporting a
>tail, two little horns and a pitch fork. LOL And no,
>those do indeed not exist.
Here Frank claims that God does not exist at all.
Frank, you keep lying, denouncing what is actually in the Bible.
You lie about being a Pastor.
You lie and make false accusations against anyone who disagrees with you.
You lie about being saved after commiting Blasphemy agaisnt the Holy Spirit in
this NG on several occasions.
You are, in the words of Jesus, one of the "Bnai B'liya`al," children of Satan
(The name that Messiah used here denotes the personality of Satan as
rebellious, lawless and worthless.). It seems that you are also "Ben
HaSatan." since you are activly opposing God and thus His enemy, and "Ben
Armillus" (Son of the Anti-Christ) because you are working so hard to prevent
people from being saved.
> Your hate has addled your brain, and Jesus promises that you will be
>treated as you treat others. May God have mercy on you.
Jesus says that you (Frankie) cannot be saved, because you have blaphemed
against the Holy Spirit. Of course that does not matter since you are a
willing servant of Satan.
>--
>Pastor Frank
>
Jack
>N...@Spam.org (Jack) wrote in message news:<v2depfb...@corp.supernews.com>...
>> In article <10427054...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank" >
>> I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
>> evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah is
>> the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and thus
>> not the same.
>>
>>
>
>
>Well, it would also seem that the jewish god YHWH is not the same by
>definition as the Christian god Jehova being that the jewish god has
>NO son.
According to the Jewish Talmud (sukkah 52a), He does have a son, the Messiah.
>>
>> Frank if you believed in God, you would know that God says in the Bible
>> that all of the penensula where Sudi Arabia is belongs to the Jewish people,
>
>
>If that's true then why doesn't your 'God of the Bible' give them back
>ALL of their land? Does your 'God of the Bible' not make good on his
>promises?
According to Jewish Belief He will at the coming of King Messiah ("Second
Comming" to Christians).
>
>
>> Frank, since the oil fields belong to Israel is is only justice to return
> them
>> to Israel.
>
>Why doesn't your 'God' return them?
He will!
>
>
>>
>> Frank, I notice that YOU, who demanded quotes from the Koran to prove the
> evil
>> of Islam snipped those quotes out. Frank, you are wrong, Islam IS evil, and
>> the Koran prooves it.
>>
>
>> I researched in the Koran. I found many verses that are very disturbing. I
>> was so prfoundly troubled by the viciousness of the hatred found in the
> Koran.
>>
>>
>> Let me share with you some passages from the Koran that explain the Muslim's
>> motivations behind the bombings. There is also part of a Friday sermon from
> a
>> mainstream Islamic religious leader, which explains how they interpret the
>> verses cited, and will help you to understand how the Koran shapes the
>> thinking of a Muslim.
>>
>
>KJV
>1 Samuel 15:3
>Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
>spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING, ox
>and sheep, camel and ass.
You should note that this was NOT a Commandment; it was a one-time command to
deal with a particular situation, namely the Amalekites' mission of Genocide
angainst the Jewiosh people. This is vastly different from Islam's
Commandment of genocidal Jihad.
>
>
>Ps 137:9
>Happy is he that dasheth the little babies against the rocks.
That is not what the verse says.
It was written by King David after he defended Israel from Babylonian
invasion. The verse was directed at Babylon. David refered to Darius the
Meade who did to Babylon what Babylon had done to Israel. The verse reads:
"Oh violated daughter of Babylon, praiseworthy is he who repays you in
accordance with the manner that you treated us. Praiseworthy is he who will
clutch and dash your infants against the rock." You really should take things
in their proper context.
>
>
>
>the Nay Sayer
Pastor Frank
news:r3fe2v8stgq9pucuu...@4ax.com...
someone for a change?
Angelfire
guess that you believe that you are not possessed too. Did you ever try
praying????????? It says that Satan comes as an angel of light. But, now I
can see that he may also come clothed in black.
Read what the others are saying about you Frank. I was an honor graduate
in philosophy, so I don't believe in freeing the prisons or people like you.
Jim Baker was imprisoned for what he did. And, Benny Hinn did very much the
same as Jim Baker.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:r3fe2v8stgq9pucuu...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:39:47 -0600, "angelfire" <Jd...@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
>> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
>though
>> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
>tells
>> >us to do?
>>
>> Yet another lying Christian.
>>
> Thanks for proving my point. LOL Why not start to support something or
>someone for a change?
What's your point Frank? It's hard to decipher through all of your
documented lies and dishonest out-of-context quoting (note, I'm not
accusing you of quoting Christopher A. Lee out of context in the statement
above, so do not lie and claim that I did).
show that he did make the claim I attributed to him. If he's replying to
Angelfire
who would ever believe that you are a pastor.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
Steve Knight
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:r3fe2v8stgq9pucuu...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:39:47 -0600, "angelfire" <Jd...@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > As soon as you see yourself agreeing with atheists, a warning flag
>> >should go up. Atheists spend their whole sorry lives finding faults and
>> >errors in people and things, and they are good at it and convincing,
>though
>> >always short on evidence admissible in court. But is that what Christ
>tells
>> >us to do?
>>
>> Yet another lying Christian.
>>
> Thanks for proving my point. LOL Why not start to support something or
>someone for a change?
I keep forgetting, Frank. Is it Pious Frank or Pastor Frank?
Of all the wacked out, mind numbing christian morons we get on
a.a., you are the most consistent 'I'm better than you'.
You go around saying we're ALL no better than shit and you scream
it hysterically from your ivory tower. Aside from Boarwright, you're a
good reason not to give christianity a second thought.
Of course, your perfect god of love will torture me forever for not
loving it. Isn't that right, Frank?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
Angelfire
LET IT BE KNOWN. I don't want anyone confusing me with Frank. Please scroll
down past the quote that Frank made which I added at the top incorrectly
(not according to standard quoting practices). Below that was my point. The
top part was said by Frank. Who else would have ever said that.
"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3e274...@news.iglou.com...
Angelfire
is really about Religious fanatics that are really deceived in the darkness
of their minds. They are like the blind trying to lead the blind in the
futility of their absent minds. Isn't that really touching all the bases of
the Taliban as well as "pastor" Frank. Verbal terrorism comes before what
benny hin said. FOr, out of the mouth comes the decietfullness of the heart.
Meditate on that verse frank.And, remember to love us from now on like you
said. Otherwise, you will continue going down the wrong road like Benny
Hinn.
James 1:14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is
dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth
to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
Keenan Wilkie
Do you ignore the failings of man because not doing so would force you
to admit that you've lied in the past, Frank? I've not forgotten,
Frank. Your lies are documented. Do you think it wrong for people to
believe my accusations against you, Frank, even though I have
documented your lies?
Frank, why can you not admit that you were mistaken when thinking that
Alan Hobson was speaking of a subject other than the Church of Christ
Scientist? Why did you dishonstly snip my quote to make it appear as
though I'd said something completely different? Why did you accuse me
of hating democracy? Why do you claim that only atheists use the term
"Christian Scientist" even though it is documented that members of the
sect use that term to refer to themselves.
ATTENTION ALL:
It should be known that Pastor Frank, while claiming to be a
Christian,engages in blatant dishonesty and shows of pride and
arrogance.
Below is an archived USENET posting of mine where I ask two things of
Frank that he has so far refused to address. The first is where he
mistook a reference to Christian Scientists, as in followers of the
Chuch of Christ Scientist, as a reference to scientists who happen to
be Christians and called someone a liar over the claim made, even
though the claim was absolutely true. The second is a bit older, in
which Frank accuses me of "hating democracy" simply because I pointed
out that 'argument ad numerum' is a logical fallacy. In the former
case, Frank has not only steadfastly refused to admit his mistake and
apologize for calling Alan Hboson a liar, but he has also since
claimed that the term "Christian Scientist" was invented by atheists
in an attempt to demonize all Christians who happen to be scientists,
even though it is used by supporters of the sect themselves as can be
seen here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
In the latter case, Frank has steadfastly refused to address the issue
of why he brought up the issue of democracy (where decisions are made
via majority vote) versues argument ad numerum (the logical fallacy
where the truth is asserted solely on the basis of majority vote in a
position).
Judge for yourself if below is an example of a 'good' and 'humble' man
of Christ:
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
news:<10421381...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> "Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
Alan Wostenberg
the Christian bibles printed in Arabic use for the term "God"?
Arabic bibles use "Allah", which means "The God". God in english, Gott
in german, Dios in spanish, Deus in latin, Allah in Arabic, are synonyms.
Keenan Wilkie
> "Jack" <N...@Spam.org> wrote in message
> news:v2depfb...@corp.supernews.com...
> > In article <10427054...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
> <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> > >
> > > I seek to proclaim the words of Jesus, that you shall be judged as you
> > >judge others, and the second most important commandment of Christ: The
> > >Golden Rule of Jesus, that we are to care about others as we care for
> > >ourselves. It is YOU who says, that these are merely the words of Rabbi
> > >Hillel and can therefore be disregarded. Whose words are you proclaiming?
> >
> > Frank, YOU said that Jesus was just a fictional chatacter; so, you, as an
> > Atheist, do not really believe that he commanded anything. Frank, you are
> > only spreading Nazi Racism.
> > I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
> > evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah
> is
> > the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and
> thus
> > not the same.
> >
> Now there is no doubt you are one of Satan's minions, for you accuse
> without offering the slightest bit of evidence. My whole argument with
> atheists is that Jesus IS REAL and NOT "fictional".
I guess I'm not one of Satan's minions, for my accusation that you are
a liar is backed up with very solid documentaion that you have, so
far, not refuted except for one instance where you dishonestly quoted
me out of context so that it appeared that I was saying something
other than what I really said. My whole argument with you, Frank, is
that the term "Christian Scientist" is not an atheist invention,
despite your lies to the contrary.
Pastor Frank
news:c6vi2vs4js2h170gq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:23:12 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
> >
> > Thanks for proving my point. LOL Why not start to support something
or
> >someone for a change?
>
> not Jesus, for one example.......
>
That is not advocating something or uplifiting and promoting someone.
Furthermore it's likely, that Dore thinks every child of God has the same
name, i.e. Jesus. But we are ALL children of the same Father, though some
prefer to consider themselves the spawn of Satan, and we DO have different
names.
Pastor Frank
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:11:34 -0600, "Angelfire" <jd...@charter.net>
> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
> News'FROUPS:
>
> >guess that you believe that you are not possessed too. Did you ever try
> >praying????????? It says that Satan comes as an angel of light. But, now
I
> >can see that he may also come clothed in black.
> > Read what the others are saying about you Frank. I was an honor
graduate
> >in philosophy, so I don't believe in freeing the prisons or people like
you.
> >Jim Baker was imprisoned for what he did. And, Benny Hinn did very much
the
> >same as Jim Baker.
>
> He is famous for quoting what people SHOULD DO, but he is not a
> practitioner of what he himself preaches.
>
May I suggest that you are famous for quoting people, what they should
NOT do, but that you can't be a practitioner of what you yourself preach, or
you would be perfect, and no one is perfect. Or do you think you are perfect
after all, and beyond reproach, the same kind of reproach you hand out so
liberally, in concert with atheists no less?
>
> There are some of us who have been right on the case of a woman
> calling herself Dore'. who insists that she is Jesus, and that 'she
> has been sent as a female Jesus to judge mankind'.........
> I don't see 'pastor Frank' doing anything to expose her blasphemies,
> but I do see him griping at me and a few others needlessly.
> I spoke out against Benny Hinn also, and he railed on me for 'not
> posting any proof of what he did'.. yet the proof is right online!!
> Anyone can g and see it.
> As for your comments on Bakker, you're dead on----- he deserved FAR
> worse than what he got, and as far as I'm concerned that make-up=laden
> ex should have been jailed right alongside of him.
> He bought his way out of prison, that's for sure.
> If I;m not mistaken, he was originally sentenced to 45 years in
> maximum security, was he not?
> Sure didn't SERVE it--- and even at that, he was in an open-concept
> half-way facility!
> Sheesh!
> There sure IS a law for the rich, and a law for the poor.....
You got 4 shot down in flames. Now you need 4 at least AS well known
personalities to praise and support to make things even. Why not start off
with Joyce Myers? Only atheists NEVER find anyone well-known to praise,
advocate and support.
Pastor Frank
> On Fri, 17 Jan 03 15:50:07 GMT, N...@Spam.org (Jack) done went and wrote
> as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
> >
> >Frank, you keep lying, denouncing what is actually in the Bible.
> >You lie about being a Pastor.
> >You lie and make false accusations against anyone who disagrees with you.
> >You lie about being saved after commiting Blasphemy agaisnt the Holy
Spirit in
> >this NG on several occasions.
> >You are, in the words of Jesus, one of the "Bnai B'liya`al," children of
Satan
> >(The name that Messiah used here denotes the personality of Satan as
> >rebellious, lawless and worthless.). It seems that you are also "Ben
> >HaSatan." since you are activly opposing God and thus His enemy, and "Ben
> >Armillus" (Son of the Anti-Christ) because you are working so hard to
prevent
> >people from being saved.
>
> all along that Frank was NO Pastor------ and I think so even MORE
> today. :o(
> I also intend to check into more archived posts of "Pastor"
> Frank.........
>
Have you read Jack's hate propaganda? He wants all Arabs dead, exiled,
dispossessed or in giant prison camps in the desert, and their land given to
the Jews. Furthermore will you note, that he supplies no reference nor quote
nor citation of what he is referring to?
Only Satan's minions do that. They will always speak and act in concert
with atheists. Are you, like Jack, an atheist masquerading as a Christian?
Let's see you support someone, as well known as the one you condemn. No
atheist will EVER support, for that's against his religion.
--
Pastor Frank
FRUITS OF THE FLESH
Gal. 5:19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife,
seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which
I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do
such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
I support Alan Hobson, whom you defamed with your claim that he lied, then
never rescinded even when it was proven outright that you were simply
mistaken. Instead you've resorted to a string of lies to cover up your
original mistake, including quoting me out of context, all because you're
too arrogant and dishonest to admit a single mistake
ATTENTION ALL:
It should be known that Pastor Frank, while claiming to be a Christian,
engages in blatant dishonesty and shows of pride and arrogance.
Below is an archived USENET posting of mine where I ask two things of
Frank that he has so far refused to address. The first is where he
mistook a reference to Christian Scientists, as in followers of the Chuch
of Christ Scientist, as a reference to scientists who happen to be
Christians and called someone a liar over the claim made, even though the
claim was absolutely true. The second is a bit older, in which Frank
accuses me of "hating democracy" simply because I pointed out that
'argument ad numerum' is a logical fallacy. In the former case, Frank has
not only steadfastly refused to admit his mistake and apologize for
calling Alan Hobson a liar, but he has also since claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" was invented by atheists in an attempt to demonize
all Christians who happen to be scientists, even though it is used by
supporters of the sect themselves as can be seen here:
http://christianscientist.rolf-witzsche.com/
In the latter case, Frank has steadfastly refused to address the issue of
why he brought up the issue of democracy (where decisions are made via
majority vote) versues argument ad numerum (the logical fallacy where the
truth is asserted solely on the basis of majority vote in a position).
Still unwilling to admit his error, Frank has since lied further.
Check this post here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1042705500.178522%40arakis.wincom.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
In it, Frank quotes me and replies as such:
> I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
> "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of
> Christ
I did no such thing. In fact, it was YOU who falsely call members of
the Christian Science cult "Christian scientists". But thanks again for
proving my point. You will demonize anything with that most hated word in
atheism: "Christ" in its name, will you not?
In here, it looks like I've tried to slander members of the Church of
Christ by associating them with "Christian Scientists". Except that Frank
has dishonestly cut out most of my statement. What I really said can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3e258e72_1%40news.iglou.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
From: dark...@iglou.com (Keenan Wilkie)
--
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"<DOCW>" <nospam@please> wrote in message
>news:t8vi2v0jtvfretm9m...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:11:34 -0600, "Angelfire" <jd...@charter.net>
>> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
>> News'FROUPS:
>>
>> > I don't think that there is anything that will help you Frank. I
>> >guess that you believe that you are not possessed too. Did you ever try
>> >praying????????? It says that Satan comes as an angel of light. But, now
>I
>> >can see that he may also come clothed in black.
>> > Read what the others are saying about you Frank. I was an honor
>graduate
>> >in philosophy, so I don't believe in freeing the prisons or people like
>you.
>> >Jim Baker was imprisoned for what he did. And, Benny Hinn did very much
>the
>> >same as Jim Baker.
>>
>> Angelfire, I very strongly doubt that Frank is a 'Pastor' at all.
>> He is famous for quoting what people SHOULD DO, but he is not a
>> practitioner of what he himself preaches.
>>
> May I suggest that you are famous for quoting people
You're famous for quoting people out of context so that you can lie about
their statements.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"<DOCW>" <nospam@please> wrote in message
>news:c6vi2vs4js2h170gq...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:23:12 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
>> these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>> >
>> > Thanks for proving my point. LOL Why not start to support something
>or
>> >someone for a change?
>>
>> Right...... like support the cause in helping DORE' to see that she is
>> not Jesus, for one example.......
>>
> That is not advocating something or uplifiting and promoting someone.
>Furthermore it's likely, that Dore thinks every child of God has the same
>name, i.e. Jesus. But we are ALL children of the same Father, though some
>prefer to consider themselves the spawn of Satan, and we DO have different
>names.
No, Frank, Dore really believes that she is Jesus the messiah. Not that
facts get in the way of your lies, Frank.
Pastor Frank
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:39:34 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
> And no, I am not 'an atheist masquerading as a Christian'....... poor
> choice of words on your part, and a VERY poor excuse for your post.
> This Christian is sincere- not a phony baloney like some I could
> mention.
> You, OTOH, who CLAIM to BE a minister--------- why don't YOU address
> Dore' and call her on the blasphemies she has been posting?
> Well????
>
I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
If you are such a staunch Christian, as you claim to be, why don't you
ever post in answer to atheist blasphemies and calumnies? is it because you
agree with atheists? So far, your choice of the targets you attack confirms
that latter. Like I said, let's see you support someone, like your favourite
TVangelist for instance, or any well known Christian personality including
Christ and prove you are a Christian, for no atheist will EVER praise or
support, period.
--
Pastor Frank
Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things.
Lone Clayton with Cub in Babycart
"<DOCW>" <nospam@please> wrote in message
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:54:40 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
> <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
> these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>
> >>
> >perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
> >Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
> > If you are such a staunch Christian, as you claim to be, why don't
you
> >ever post in answer to atheist blasphemies and calumnies? is it because
you
> >agree with atheists? So far, your choice of the targets you attack
confirms
> >that latter. Like I said, let's see you support someone, like your
favourite
> >TVangelist for instance, or any well known Christian personality
including
> >Christ and prove you are a Christian, for no atheist will EVER praise or
> >support, period.
>
>
> I HAVE on numerous occasions spoken back against what atheists say in
> here.
>
> I just don't POST to the atheist group like you do on a regular basis.
> The only time one of my messages appears there is because of a reply
> that is cross posted.
>
> Nice try but no cigar.
>
> And I STILL say you are NO Pastor.
It's like watching a funny, more pathetic, pint sized version of "King Kong
vs Godzilla".
> ==========================================================
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JESUS IS THE ROCK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> < God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called >
> ==========================================================
Pastor Frank
in message news:3e2c9872$0$25755$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
can flame with impunity, knowing that Christians rarely fight back in kind?
Are you ready to fight back in kind, or are you agreeing with them, i.e.
Benny Hinn?
>
> > Nice try but no cigar.
> > And I STILL say you are NO Pastor.
>
look up to, seek to live up to their expectations or imitate? As long as you
can't praise, support, advocate or uplift and worship "I STILL say you are
NO" Christian.
Angelfire
say is true Frank, then you would have to support and love every atheist out
there as well as in this news group. Why don't you support some of them you
hypocrite. Come on and support something for a change that is worth
supporting or even more worthy than Benny Hinn anyway. I don't know what
you are doing in a newsgroup that deals with logic and reasoning. For, you
are the most illogical person that I have ever heard it seems.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
Angelfire
what you think of yourself as being.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
Angelfire
they do that would be better than what Frank is doing by putting forth his
example of what a Christian is supposed to be like. In other words, FRANK
MUST BE EITHER A SATANIST OR ELSE AN ATHEIST.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message
news:10429468...@arakis.wincom.net...
Pastor Frank
news:v2rbtk2...@corp.supernews.com...
supporting and advocating in Christ Jesus and you will have my support.
--
Pastor Frank
Mt:13:15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of
hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see
with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their
heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt:18:3: And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become
as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Jack
Frank, YOU said that God is just a myth. This is in direct opposition to
everything that Jesus taught. You are a liar.
Frank you are not a Pastor. You lie again.
>--
>Pastor Frank
(Pervert Frank)
>
Here Frank claims that God does not exist at all.
the Nay Sayer
> In article <b0fce696.03011...@posting.google.com>, Nay_...@hotmail.com (the Nay Sayer) wrote:
> >N...@Spam.org (Jack) wrote in message news:<v2depfb...@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> In article <10427054...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank" >
> >> I believe that God is real and that Islam which denounces His existance is
> >> evil. God says that He is the only God. Mohound's Koran says that Allah is
> >> the only God. By definition Allah and God are completely different and thus
> >> not the same.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well, it would also seem that the jewish god YHWH is not the same by
> >definition as the Christian god Jehova being that the jewish god has
> >NO son.
>
> According to the Jewish Talmud (sukkah 52a), He does have a son, the Messiah.
>
The same Messiah that the Jews are still waiting for? If Jehova has
already sent a Messiah and YHWH hasn't, doesn' that constitute a
diffrence?
>
> >>
> >> Frank if you believed in God, you would know that God says in the Bible
> >> that all of the penensula where Sudi Arabia is belongs to the Jewish people,
> >
> >
> >If that's true then why doesn't your 'God of the Bible' give them back
> >ALL of their land? Does your 'God of the Bible' not make good on his
> >promises?
>
> According to Jewish Belief He will at the coming of King Messiah ("Second
> Comming" to Christians).
>
I thought he has already given it to Abraham and his seed? What is
Jehova waiting for?
> >
> >
> >> Frank, since the oil fields belong to Israel is is only justice to return
> them
> >> to Israel.
> >
> >Why doesn't your 'God' return them?
>
> He will!
>
When? Didn't Jehova already promise it to the seed of Abraham?
What's taking him so long?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Frank, I notice that YOU, who demanded quotes from the Koran to prove the
> evil
> >> of Islam snipped those quotes out. Frank, you are wrong, Islam IS evil, and
> >> the Koran prooves it.
> >>
>
> >> I researched in the Koran. I found many verses that are very disturbing. I
> >> was so prfoundly troubled by the viciousness of the hatred found in the
> Koran.
> >>
> >>
> >> Let me share with you some passages from the Koran that explain the Muslim's
> >> motivations behind the bombings. There is also part of a Friday sermon from
> a
> >> mainstream Islamic religious leader, which explains how they interpret the
> >> verses cited, and will help you to understand how the Koran shapes the
> >> thinking of a Muslim.
> >>
> >
> >KJV
> >1 Samuel 15:3
> >Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
> >spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING, ox
> >and sheep, camel and ass.
>
> You should note that this was NOT a Commandment; it was a one-time command
You have just contradicted yourself....
> to
> deal with a particular situation, namely the Amalekites' mission of Genocide
> angainst the Jewiosh people.
Yes, deal with them by murdering INNOCENT women, CHILDREN, and
INFANTS! Your Jehova endorses terrorism......
> This is vastly different from Islam's
> Commandment of genocidal Jihad.
>
Please provide us with c&v?
> >
> >
> >Ps 137:9
> >Happy is he that dasheth the little babies against the rocks.
>
> That is not what the verse says.
> It was written by King David after he defended Israel from Babylonian
> invasion. The verse was directed at Babylon. David refered to Darius the
> Meade who did to Babylon what Babylon had done to Israel. The verse reads:
> "Oh violated daughter of Babylon, praiseworthy is he who repays you in
> accordance with the manner that you treated us. Praiseworthy is he who will
> clutch and dash your infants against the rock." You really should take things
> in their proper context.
>
You should heed your own advice....
the Nay Sayer
Jerry Springer Bin Laden show i.e the God chosen jew
***************************************************************************
God bless the Jews for helping Osama bin Laden!
The Bible states that any nation that supports Israel will be blessed.
Well,Jews are blessing America the Christians nation too.
Quotes from Reverend Billy Graham spiritual leader to George W. Bush
and former President Nixon tapes:
The released tapes have been edited and pruned. But Haldeman kept a
diary of the conversation. After Reverend Billy Graham left, Nixon
told his henchman: "You know it was good we got this point about the
Jews across . . .
the Jews are an irreligious, atheistic, ""immoral bunch of bastards.""
As Haldeman records, Graham had earlier observed that ""the Bible says
there are satanic Jews"" and there's where our problem arises". That
problem was "the total Jewish domination of the media . . . this was
something that would have to be dealt with."-Dawn/The Guardian News
Service.
Graham begins by advising Nixon on campaign strategy. The evangelist
has been invited to lunch at Time magazine. "You better take your
Jewish beanie" (yarmulke), Haldeman jokes. Nixon is in darker mood. He
broaches something that "we can't talk about publicly" - Jewish
influence in the media. All the big news organs are "totally dominated
by the Jews". Graham agrees, adding, piously, that it is the Jews "who
are putting out the """""pornographic stuff""""""".
This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country's going down
the """drain,"""'' Billy Graham said,
God bless the Jews for helping Osama bin Laden to destroy America!
God chosen Jews in porn !!!!
Jews dominate the production and distribution of porn. Leading
pornographers with Jewish names include Wesley Emerson, Paul Fishbein,
Herbert Feinberg a.k.a. Mickey Fine, Lenny Friedlander, Bobby
Hollander, Rubin Gottesman, Fred Hirsch and his children Steve and
Marjorie, Paul "Norman" Apstein, Steve Orenstein, Theodore Rothstein,
Reuben and
David Sturman, Ron Sullivan, Sam and Mitch Weston (Spinelli).
Jews accounted for most of the leading male performers of the 1970's
and '80's. Hebrew studs include Buck Adams, Bobby Astyr, R. Bolla
(Richard Parnes), Jerry Butler (Paul Siderman), Seymour Butts (Adam
Glaser),David Christopher (Bernie Cohen), Steve Drake, Jesse Eastern,
Jamie
Gillis, Ron Jeremy (Hyatt), Michael Knight, Ashley Moore, David
Morris, George
Payne, Ed Powers (Mark Arnold), Harry Reems (Herbert Streicher), Dave
Ruby, Herschel Savage, Carter Stevens (Mal Whorb), Marc Stevens, Paul
Thomas (Phil Tobias), Marc Wallice, Randy West and Jack Wrangler.
Jewish female performers include Avalon, Jenny Baxter (Jenny Wexler),
Busty Belle (Tracy Praeger), Chelsea Blake, Tiffany Blake, Bunny Bleu,
Lee Carroll (Leslie Barns), Blair Castle/Brooke Fields (Allison
Shandibal), Courtney/Natasha/Eden (Natasha Zimmerman), Daphne (Daphne
Franks),Barbara Dare (Stacy Mitnick), April Diamond, Jeanna Fine,
Alexis Gold,
Tern Hall,Heather Hart, Nina Hartley, C. J. Laing (Wendy Miller),
Frankie Leigh (Cynthia Hope Geller), Gloria Leonard, Traci Lords (Nora
Louise
Kuzman), Amber Lynn, Tonisha Mills, Melissa Monet, Susan Nero,
Scarlett 0.(Catherine Goldberg), Tawny Pearl (Susan Pearlman), Nina
Preta, Tracey Prince, Janey Robbins (Robin Lieberman), Alexandra Silk,
Susan Sloan, Annie Sprinkle (Ellen Steinberg), Karen Summer (Dana
Alper), Zara Whites and Ona Zee(Ona Simms).
God bless the Jews!
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Angelfire" <jd...@charter.net> wrote in message
>> Why would anyone want to support Jim Baker or Benny Hinn. IF what you
>> say is true Frank, then you would have to support and love every atheist
>out
>> there as well as in this news group. Why don't you support some of them
>you
>> hypocrite. Come on and support something for a change that is worth
>> supporting or even more worthy than Benny Hinn anyway. I don't know what
>> you are doing in a newsgroup that deals with logic and reasoning. For, you
>> are the most illogical person that I have ever heard it seems.
>>
> I advocate Christ and support those who support others in Christ. Start
>supporting and advocating in Christ Jesus and you will have my support.
No, Frank, you're here to lie and take people's words out of context to
demonize them with libel. You've done it to me, and you've done it to
Alan Hobson. You are not here to glorify Christ, you are here to 'prove'
your perfection, even if it means lying about your mistakes because you're
too arrogant and dishonest to admit them.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Lone Clayton with Cub in Babycart" <cj...@SPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote
>in message news:3e2c9872$0$25755$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> "<DOCW>" <nospam@please> wrote in message
>> news:1ero2v0tn915uv5li...@4ax.com...
>> > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:54:40 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
>> > <hallelujah@praisethelord> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in
>> > these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>> > >
>> > > I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
>> > >perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
>> > >Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
>> > > If you are such a staunch Christian, as you claim to be, why don't
>> you
>> > >ever post in answer to atheist blasphemies and calumnies? is it because
>> you
>> > >agree with atheists? So far, your choice of the targets you attack
>> confirms
>> > >that latter. Like I said, let's see you support someone, like your
>> favourite
>> > >TVangelist for instance, or any well known Christian personality
>> including
>> > >Christ and prove you are a Christian, for no atheist will EVER praise
>or
>> > >support, period.
>> >
>> > Dream on.
>> > I HAVE on numerous occasions spoken back against what atheists say in
>> > here.
>> > I just don't POST to the atheist group like you do on a regular basis.
>> > The only time one of my messages appears there is because of a reply
>> > that is cross posted.
>>
> What about atheists trolling Religious News Groups to find people they
>can flame with impunity, knowing that Christians rarely fight back in kind?
>Are you ready to fight back in kind, or are you agreeing with them, i.e.
>Benny Hinn?
That's true. Most Christians don't fight like you, Frank. Most of them
are at least somewhat more honest and willing to admit their mistakes.
You're the only self-professed Christian who has taken my words out of
context in order to lie about my statements.
>>
>> > Nice try but no cigar.
>> > And I STILL say you are NO Pastor.
>>
> You still decline to tell us about your role models, those you revere,
>look up to, seek to live up to their expectations or imitate? As long as you
>can't praise, support, advocate or uplift and worship "I STILL say you are
>NO" Christian.
Would you think him a true Christian if he engaged in tactics of lying and
fraud, as you have done, Frank?
Keenan Clay Wilkie
> I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
>perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
>Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
Bullshit, Frank. You invade alt.atheism so that you can put on a
holier-than-thou act, but since you're too fucking stupid to come up with
a coherent argument you get caught up in mistakes and then you have to lie
about them. You lied about Alan Hobson, and you lied about me, Frank.
You're a dishonest fraud, and you've been well-exposed. Why do you keep
coming back, Frank? You've already proven that your intentions are far
from honest.
Pastor Frank
> In article <10432281...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
<hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
> >
> > I advocate Christ and support those who support others in Christ.
Start
> >supporting and advocating in Christ Jesus and you will have my support.
>
> Frank, YOU said that God is just a myth. This is in direct opposition to
> everything that Jesus taught. You are a liar.
> Frank you are not a Pastor. You lie again.
> (Pervert Frank)
>
Jack, we all know you are just lying for atheism, for I back up anything
I say with quotes from Christ, and you quote just yourself ad nauseam. Get
out of our pristine Christian News Groups already, and post your drivel to
flame groups, that will be glad to have you. May I suggest
news:alt.flame.jesus.christ or news:alt.blasphemy
Get back to us when you are ready to praise, support, worship, advocate,
uplift and glorify. Hope to see you back soon, a changed man in Christ
Jesus. Hallelujah to the King of kings and the Lord of lords, may His name
be praised forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mat 28:19,20 19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
> >
> > I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
> >perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
> >Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
>
> Bullshit, Frank. You invade alt.atheism
Wrong Keenan, YOU invade our pristine Christian NGs from a.a., to trash
other people's faith and beliefs, and flame the faithful. At least I preach
to the unsaved, like those in a.a. and not the choir, for Christ did not
come for the good nor the perfect, but Christ came for the lost. You, Keenan
are one of those lost souls in need of Christ. See below. Turn NOW and spend
your life worshipping Christ and praising His perfection instead of
lambasting and bewailing the failings of man.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:18:11: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost".
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
>news:3e2f347d$1...@news.iglou.com...
>> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
>> >
>> > I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
>> >perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
>> >Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
>>
>> Bullshit, Frank. You invade alt.atheism
> Wrong Keenan, YOU invade our pristine Christian NGs from a.a., to trash
>other people's faith and beliefs, and flame the faithful.
Liar. I have only deliberately posted into your "pristine" Christian
newsgroups in order to expose your blatant dishonesty. I never attacked
Christianity in those newsgroups, and I did not attack Christians in
general. I only attacked you and only for your documented lies.
>At least I preach to the unsaved, like those in a.a. and not the choir,
>for Christ did not come for the good nor the perfect, but Christ came for
>the lost.
Ah. You justify your arrogant attitude by asserting that your position is
correct. That's not exactly the way to diminsh the perception that you
are arrogant.
>You, Keenan are one of those lost souls in need of Christ. See below.
>Turn NOW and spend your life worshipping Christ and praising His
>perfection instead of lambasting and bewailing the failings of man.
Frank, why should I believe you? You lied about me. You dishonestly took
my words out of context to change the meaning of a statement that I made.
You've completely destroyed your credibility ANYWHERE, and it is
well-documented. You've shown that you're too dishonest and too arrogant
to admit your mistakes, as you STILL refuse to acknowledge that you were
mistaken when you called Alan Hobson a liar, you STILL refuse to
acknowledge that the term "Christian Scientist" is an accepted term to
describe members of the "Church of Christ Scientist" and you STILL have
not apologized for dishonestly cutting off my previous quote at "Church of
Christ", omitting the word "Scientist" to make it look like I was
addressing a different subject. Why should I trust you on the matters of
'salvation', Frank? You're a documented liar, and I don't think that I
can trust you with anything.
Jack
>"Keenan Clay Wilkie" <dark...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
>news:3e2f347d$1...@news.iglou.com...
>> "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> writes:
>> >
>> > I would rather preach to atheists who blaspheme our most holy and
>> >perfect God, trash His sacred and inerrant Word, the NT and flame Jesus
>> >Christ and all those believing in Him. Dore is not one of those.
>>
>> Bullshit, Frank. You invade alt.atheism
>
> Wrong Keenan, YOU invade our pristine Christian NGs from a.a., to trash
>other people's faith and beliefs, and flame the faithful.
"Pristine"?????
As a believer in God and Messiah, I do not believe that the Christian groups
are "Pristine" at all. Frank. you yourself pollute them with profanity and
lies. You make false accusations against Christians, Atheists, Israelis,
Jews, and even blaspheme against God Himself calling Him "NOT a divine
sentient entity" and saying that Gos is just an idea created by man. Frank,
it sounds ;like you are too stupid to realize that YOU are an Atheist.
>At least I preach
>to the unsaved, like those in a.a. and not the choir, for Christ did not
>come for the good nor the perfect, but Christ came for the lost. You, Keenan
>are one of those lost souls in need of Christ. See below. Turn NOW and spend
>your life worshipping Christ and praising His perfection instead of
>lambasting and bewailing the failings of man.
Frank, you do not preach to anyone.
You abuse and attack people. You lie about being a pastor. You cannot be
trusted.
>--
>Pastor Frank
("Pervert Frank")
>
Jack
Here Frank claims that God does not exist at all.
Jack
>"Jack" <N...@Spam.org> wrote in message
>news:v2t9eqc...@corp.supernews.com...
>> In article <10432281...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
><hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
>> >
>> > I advocate Christ and support those who support others in Christ.
>Start
>> >supporting and advocating in Christ Jesus and you will have my support.
>>
>> Frank, YOU said that God is just a myth. This is in direct opposition to
>> everything that Jesus taught. You are a liar.
>> Frank you are not a Pastor. You lie again.
>> >Pastor Frank
>> (Pervert Frank)
>>
> Jack, we all know you are just lying for atheism, for I back up anything
>I say with quotes from Christ, and you quote just yourself ad nauseam. Get
>out of our pristine Christian News Groups already, and post your drivel to
>flame groups, that will be glad to have you. May I suggest
>news:alt.flame.jesus.christ or news:alt.blasphemy
Frank, again you bear false witness. Not only do I quote the Bible, I have
Quoted YOU. I am quoteing several of your Atheistic blasphemies in this post.
When I quoted the Bible concerning the right of the Israelis to live in Israel
you snipped all the Bible verses ans posted Nazi propaganda. So, you have no
respect for the Bible, like Satan, your Father, you try to twist the Bible yo
your own sick and hateful depravities.
Frank, I do not know who the "we" is that you refer to; maybe the voices in
your head that tell you to hurt people??? You need to be committed to a
psychiatric hospital. Seek help!
> Get back to us when you are ready to praise, support, worship, advocate,
>uplift and glorify. Hope to see you back soon, a changed man in Christ
>Jesus. Hallelujah to the King of kings and the Lord of lords, may His name
>be praised forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank, YOU are the one who said that God does not exist.
>--
>Pastor Frank
Frank, You are NOT a Pastor; stop lying.
Keenan Clay Wilkie
>In article <10432851...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
>>"Jack" <N...@Spam.org> wrote in message
>>news:v2t9eqc...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <10432281...@arakis.wincom.net>, "Pastor Frank"
>><hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I advocate Christ and support those who support others in Christ.
>>Start
>>> >supporting and advocating in Christ Jesus and you will have my support.
>>>
>>> Frank, YOU said that God is just a myth. This is in direct opposition to
>>> everything that Jesus taught. You are a liar.
>>> Frank you are not a Pastor. You lie again.
>>> >Pastor Frank
>>> (Pervert Frank)
>>>
>> Jack, we all know you are just lying for atheism, for I back up anything
>>I say with quotes from Christ, and you quote just yourself ad nauseam. Get
>>out of our pristine Christian News Groups already, and post your drivel to
>>flame groups, that will be glad to have you. May I suggest
>>news:alt.flame.jesus.christ or news:alt.blasphemy
>Frank, again you bear false witness. Not only do I quote the Bible, I have
>Quoted YOU.
Frank is a documented liar. He refuses to accept responsibility for his
own words, especially when they prove him to be mistaken. He is far too
arrogant to admit that he is not perfect.
I caught Frank in a lie and he's yet to answer for it. He made a simple
mistake regarding someone's statement, but rather than admit his mistake
he weaved a web of lies to cover it up.
John Larson
even used scripture when he tempted Christ.
"Pastor Frank" <hallelujah@praisethelord> wrote in message