Ah-nuld, guvnor!
James Gifford
said, "For the first time in my life, I'm ashamed to be an American." My
feelings are along that spectrum but not quite that far along.
However...
For the first time in my life, I'm ashamed to be a Californian. I know
what the rest of the country/world thinks of us, and a damned lot of it
is earned, but an awful lot of it looks like sour grapes, too. :)
But this recall debacle is an awful threed-ring circus, and with
Schwartzenegger declaring his candidacy, it's made me want to stand up
and apologize for the sorry state of this sorry state. Even if Ahnie
doesn't win, his presence is going to screw/skew up any of the
legitimate voting.
*Sigh*.
For discussion:
1) Does AS have *ANY* relevant experience for this position? Even Jesse
Ventura had SEAL training (good for leadership and organization) and was
mayor of a small town for a time. As near as I can tell, AS's closest
approach to political experience is porking Maria Shriver.
2) I've heard it said that Ahnie has peeked at politics more than once,
only to be put off by exposure of his past. As I understand it, the
entertainment reporting industry treads very lightly, since any negative
press would bar them and their organizations from future press
conferences, screenings, etc. However, I've heard it said that the
political press doesn't give a rat's ass about such ostracism and has
long been licking its chops over the feast AS-as-candidate would
provide. Does Ahnie really think his brushes with neo-Nazi groups,
homosexuality and gay men's magazines will be overlooked by the
political reporters?
3) WRT #2, how much documentation is there on these claims of shady
associations in AS's past?
Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
--
| James Gifford * jgif...@surewest.net |
| So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
Estron
> Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
> freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
You take your politics waaaaayyyyyyy too seriously, don't you?
--
All opinions expressed are only that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
James Gifford
> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, James Gifford wrote:
>> Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
>> freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
> You take your politics waaaaayyyyyyy too seriously, don't you?
A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
be a man of steel (lit. & fig.) is about to be seriously considered for
what can be called one of the top two or three Chief Executive positions
in the country. Chief Executive of my state. This is hardly tearing my
hair and wailing over a minor city council fumble.
M C Hamster
news:3F31C750...@surewest.net...
> Estron wrote:
> > Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, James Gifford wrote:
> >> Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
> >> freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
>
> > You take your politics waaaaayyyyyyy too seriously, don't you?
>
> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
> be a man of steel (lit. & fig.) is about to be seriously considered for
> what can be called one of the top two or three Chief Executive positions
> in the country. Chief Executive of my state. This is hardly tearing my
> hair and wailing over a minor city council fumble.
We assume it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to win. We'd be quite
disappointed if that didn't happen.
Is it really true that Gary Coleman is also running?
We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
RM Mentock
>
> Estron wrote:
> > You take your politics waaaaayyyyyyy too seriously, don't you?
>
> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
Maybe he should spend some time in Screen Actors Guild office first?
--
RM Mentock
No se puede vivir sin amar
James Gifford
> We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
Yes, well, I guess you in the vast wastelands have to have some imagined
positive qualities of life. Nobody would much care if Ahnie was
running for guvner of, say, Iowa. But California has soemthing to lose
by it.
James Gifford
> James Gifford wrote:
>> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
> Maybe he should spend some time in Screen Actors Guild office first?
Don't get me started. But the difference between a tiny fraction of
experience and zero is vast.
Brett Bayne
successfully run for public office!
tooloud
> M C Hamster wrote:
>> We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
>
> Yes, well, I guess you in the vast wastelands have to have some
> imagined positive qualities of life. Nobody would much care if
> Ahnie was
> running for guvner of, say, Iowa. But California has soemthing to lose
> by it.
Here's an Iowan politely reminding a Californian that the rest of the free
world isn't exactly gripping the edge of their seats till this is over. In
fact, if anything, I'm too busy laughing at the entire situation. "Something
to lose?" That doesn't compare to the hours of comedy you've *gained* from
this thing.
Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
*Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
65 signatures required to run.
I don't think I'd even choose one--I'd probably just take the ballot home as
a souvenir.
>> James Gifford * jgif...@surewest.net |
>> So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
>> Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply...
Estron
> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
> be a man of steel (lit. & fig.) is about to be seriously considered for
> what can be called one of the top two or three Chief Executive positions
> in the country. Chief Executive of my state.
I happen to think that:
a) he doesn't have a shred of hope of actually winning the job;
b) even as chief executive, he wouldn't be able to raise the state to
glory or ruin it single-handedly (cf. Ventura in MN and Bush in TX);
and
c) you're saying "Hollywood actor" like the phrase itself is proof
that he has no talent or intelligence for anything else. "Hollywood
actor" Geena Davis was an Olympic-class archer. "Hollywood actor"
Hedy Lamarr was credited with co-inventing a device that helped win
World War II for the Allies.
kay w
>Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
>*Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
>65 signatures required to run.
And the woman with the huge tits, who wears pink, wassername.
Maybe they will print souvenir ballots.
--
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it."
- Groucho Marx
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose.
RM Mentock
> c) you're saying "Hollywood actor" like the phrase itself is proof
> that he has no talent or intelligence for anything else. "Hollywood
> actor" Geena Davis was an Olympic-class archer. "Hollywood actor"
> Hedy Lamarr was credited with co-inventing a device that helped win
> World War II for the Allies.
Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
RM Mentock
>
> M C Hamster wrote:
> Yes, well, I guess you in the vast wastelands have to have some imagined
> positive qualities of life. Nobody would much care if Ahnie was
> running for guvner of, say, Iowa. But California has soemthing to lose
> by it.
you should have been paying attention earlier then
Estron
> Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
I didn't mention Reagan because he appears to be an orange to
Schwarzenegger's apple. Before being elected governor of California,
Reagan had had, at least, the experience of being president of the
Screen Actors Guild. Schwarzenegger has produced a film and directed
two TV programs (according to imdb.com), but outside of that, I don't
know if he has anything on his resume indicating the leadership of a
sizeable group of people.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
<snip>
> 1) Does AS have *ANY* relevant experience for this position? Even Jesse
> Ventura had SEAL training (good for leadership and organization) and was
> mayor of a small town for a time. As near as I can tell, AS's closest
> approach to political experience is porking Maria Shriver.
Eh, he's parlayed a single skill, body building, into a valauble carreer
that he's become quite successfull at, despite "The Last Action Hero".
> 2) I've heard it said that Ahnie has peeked at politics more than once,
> only to be put off by exposure of his past. As I understand it, the
> entertainment reporting industry treads very lightly, since any negative
> press would bar them and their organizations from future press
> conferences, screenings, etc. However, I've heard it said that the
> political press doesn't give a rat's ass about such ostracism and has
> long been licking its chops over the feast AS-as-candidate would
> provide. Does Ahnie really think his brushes with neo-Nazi groups,
> homosexuality and gay men's magazines will be overlooked by the
> political reporters?
I'm sure he doesn't. I rather think that the backlash, should these turn
out to be unfounded, will end up helpfull to him.
> 3) WRT #2, how much documentation is there on these claims of shady
> associations in AS's past?
Well, with a quick googling, I see that his dad was an actual-factual n@zi
and that Arnie has worked hard to come to peace with the Jewish community,
donating his salary from T-2 tot he Holocaust Museum.
> Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
> freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
Well, as an outsider, I'd have to say that CA could do far worse than to
elect Arnie to the governorship.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
John Dean
> "James Gifford" <jgif...@surewest.net> wrote in message
> news:3F31C750...@surewest.net...
>> Estron wrote:
>>> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, James Gifford wrote:
>>>> Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
>>>> freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
>>
>>> You take your politics waaaaayyyyyyy too seriously, don't you?
>>
>> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending
>> to be a man of steel (lit. & fig.) is about to be seriously
>> considered for what can be called one of the top two or three Chief
>> Executive positions in the country. Chief Executive of my state.
>> This is hardly tearing my hair and wailing over a minor city council
>> fumble.
>
> We assume it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to win. We'd be
> quite disappointed if that didn't happen.
>
> Is it really true that Gary Coleman is also running?
Yuh-huh. And Arianna Huffington. And Larry Flynt. And Angelyne.
>
> We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
We Brits try to keep a stiff upper lip but, I say, really Old Chap...
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Boron Elgar
>James Gifford <jgif...@surewest.net> wrote:
><snip>
>> 1) Does AS have *ANY* relevant experience for this position? Even Jesse
>> Ventura had SEAL training (good for leadership and organization) and was
>> mayor of a small town for a time. As near as I can tell, AS's closest
>> approach to political experience is porking Maria Shriver.
>
>Eh, he's parlayed a single skill, body building, into a valauble carreer
>that he's become quite successfull at, despite "The Last Action Hero".
From what I hear, he also has some serious business acumen and has
amassed a fortune much larger than an actor's salary with it.
Boron
Opus the Penguin
> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, RM Mentock wrote:
>
>> Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
>
> I didn't mention Reagan because he appears to be an orange to
> Schwarzenegger's apple. Before being elected governor of California,
> Reagan had had, at least, the experience of being president of the
> Screen Actors Guild. Schwarzenegger has produced a film and directed
> two TV programs (according to imdb.com), but outside of that, I don't
> know if he has anything on his resume indicating the leadership of a
> sizeable group of people.
Well, Arnold has also had the experience of running a large-ish company,
Planet Hollywood ... into the ground. Apparently that's all the experience a
Republican candidate needs these days.
Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's the best
they can do.
--
Opus the Penguin
James Gifford
> From what I hear, he also has some serious business acumen and has
> amassed a fortune much larger than an actor's salary with it.
An "actor's salary" is union scale plus all the catering buffet they can
eat. Ahnie has made more on each of his last fifteen movies than all the
waiter-actors in LA combined.
Anyone can be a business genius with a bankroll (and a name) like that.
Show me where AS sat at a desk or equivalent and built anything (vice
using his name and image to hang around and write checks while those
with real ability did the work).
SoCalMike
>
> Well, Arnold has also had the experience of running a large-ish company,
> Planet Hollywood ... into the ground. Apparently that's all the experience
a
> Republican candidate needs these days.
he wasnt the only one involved in that. i guess that demi, bruce, him, etc.
decided that there werent enough theme restaurants with bland, overpriced
food.
whoever does get the election is going to either have to cut services, or
raise taxes. sadly, i think they need to get rid of the 50,000 state
employees that were hired since he took office. at a WAG of $30k/year per
employee, thats one billion, five hundred million dollars a year saved,
right there.
or did i screw up on the math?
Mike
> "Hollywood actor"
> Hedy Lamarr was credited with co-inventing a device that helped win
> World War II for the Allies.
I have a copy of Hedy's patent right here (she was Hedy Markey at the time,
and her coinventor was George Antheil, a composer). It was for a radio
controlled torpedo - the key was the encryption scheme used to encrypt the
radio control signals so that the enemy couldn't also control the torpedo.
It encrypted by using piano rolls in the transmitter and receiver (the
torpedo) to change the frequency of the control signal at set times. Since
only the friendly transmitter and the torpedo would know the correct
sequence of frequency changes, an enemy trying to take control of the
torpedo would have to guess the correct sequence before they could start
sending signals to the torpedo.
It was not used in world war II. I don't know whether it was tried, but it
would have had serious problems since radio waves don't penetrate salt
water very well, so the torpedo is unlikely to receive the transmitted
signals once it's more than a short distance below the surface.
However, even though it had no effect on the war effort, the idea was more
profound than Hedy and George likely realized at the time. Spread spectrum
systems play a large, if not dominant, role in military and civilian
wireless communications today. It was, in the end, a _very_ good idea.
-- Mike --
Mike
I hope you didn't sign the recall petition... that's the question you
should have asked before...
One of my coworkers, who ardently supports the recall, said before the
recall election was announced that, "Anyone would be better." I've
certainly heard that before, usually from young naive (or idealistic)
people who don't realize that things really can be worse.
-- Mike --
ra...@westnet.poe.com
Yep, I CA doesn't want him, I'd love to see him take over from the pencil
neck we've gotten stuck with here in NJ.
SoCalMike
> Boron Elgar wrote:
> > From what I hear, he also has some serious business acumen and has
> > amassed a fortune much larger than an actor's salary with it.
>
> An "actor's salary" is union scale plus all the catering buffet they can
> eat. Ahnie has made more on each of his last fifteen movies than all the
> waiter-actors in LA combined.
>
> Anyone can be a business genius with a bankroll (and a name) like that.
> Show me where AS sat at a desk or equivalent and built anything (vice
> using his name and image to hang around and write checks while those
> with real ability did the work).
he supposedly made a lot of money in real estate, before he was famous. that
(if true) takes some business acumen. i still wouldnt vote for him, tho.
Mark Steese
der news:j8o4jvg0mhr8l6s9j...@4ax.com schrieb:
Unfortunately, business acumen is not necessarily helpful when you're
running for public office -- just ask President Perot. Really savvy
businessmen don't become candidates, they bankroll them. Arnold says
that he won't need to depend on special interests 'cause he's so rich;
if he's serious, he's about to find out that special interests carry a
lot more clout in government than over-the-hill action stars. (I also
have a sneaking suspicion that Arnold will start looking for
contributions as soon as he discovers how much he'll have to pay to run
his own ads. He wouldn't be nearly so rich if he'd had to foot the bill
for his movie ads...
-Mark Steese
--
there's a ribbon in the willow and a tire swing rope
and a briar patch of berries takin over the slope
the cat'll sleep in the mailbox and we'll never go to town
till we bury every dream in the cold cold ground
cold cold ground -Tom Waits
Kim
> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, RM Mentock wrote:
>
>> Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
>
> I didn't mention Reagan because he appears to be an orange to
> Schwarzenegger's apple. Before being elected governor of California,
> Reagan had had, at least, the experience of being president of the
> Screen Actors Guild. Schwarzenegger has produced a film and directed
> two TV programs (according to imdb.com), but outside of that, I don't
> know if he has anything on his resume indicating the leadership of a
> sizeable group of people.
Is being president of the Screen Actor's Guild really comparable to being
governor? I don't know anything about the SAG, what does being president
entail?
Does this mean that Half Pint now has the credentials to run for governor as
well?
--
Kim ~ Ma and Pa would be so proud
*The good thing about my alter ego, Underachiever Man, is that I don't have
to change clothes when I use my super powers. (Phillip Garding)*
James Gifford
> whoever does get the election is going to either have to cut services, or
> raise taxes. sadly, i think they need to get rid of the 50,000 state
> employees that were hired since he took office. at a WAG of $30k/year per
> employee, thats one billion, five hundred million dollars a year saved,
> right there.
>
> or did i screw up on the math?
No, just your thinking. I'm no fan of oversized government, but you
can't run California with a six-person council and twelve clerks. Forty
million people, the sixth-largest individual economy on the planet, and
somewhere between a quarter and a third of the US's natural resources -
not to mention the vast range of ecosystems and the tourist trade - make
CA a hell of a big, complex entity.
Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
ra...@westnet.poe.com
<snip>
> whoever does get the election is going to either have to cut services, or
> raise taxes. sadly, i think they need to get rid of the 50,000 state
> employees that were hired since he took office. at a WAG of $30k/year per
> employee, thats one billion, five hundred million dollars a year saved,
> right there.
$30K per person per year? Do they pay minimum wage? Employees cost far
more than just thier take home salary. If they're making on average $30K
each (which would be criminally low for CA's COL) it would be costing more
like $45K per year. At 50,000 employees, this comes to two and a quarter
billion dollars.
groo
> Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
I am an Iowan by birth and education, and spent some time involved with
the state government, and I want to let you know that I deeply, deeply
resent this.
*could*, my ass.
James Gifford
>> Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
> I am an Iowan by birth and education, and spent some time involved with
> the state government, and I want to let you know that I deeply, deeply
> resent this.
You need to focus your priorities. If deep resentment of humor aimed at
one's state was common, California would be a smoldering pit of psychos
making prewar Afghanistan and Iraq look like Switzerland.
M C Hamster
news:bgto86$shdm0$1...@ID-58324.news.uni-berlin.de...
Really? You're so disgusted with the Greyser, I figured you'd vote for
Mickey Mouse. (Which does make me wonder, is Mickey a resident of
California these days, or did he change residency to Florida?)
There must be *some* decent candidates, right? Is Riordan going to win?
He's the only one we out here have ever heard of.
Added to our perceptions of the oddness of this of course is the likelihood
that Davis will get more votes than any other candidate, possibly by a wide
margin, in the recall and yet be booted out of office. He may get 49% of
the votes, and the winner gets 10%. Um, sure, makes sense to me.
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
groo
>
> groo wrote:
> >> Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
>
> > I am an Iowan by birth and education, and spent some time involved with
> > the state government, and I want to let you know that I deeply, deeply
> > resent this.
>
> You need to focus your priorities. If deep resentment of humor aimed at
> one's state was common, California would be a smoldering pit of psychos
> making prewar Afghanistan and Iraq look like Switzerland.
You, sir, are getting on the wrong side of me. First you claim that the
great state of Iowa is *not* run with eighteen people, and then you
imply that my new home of California is *not* a smoldering pit of
psychos. Oh, the ignominy. If this conversation was being held in
person, I would feel compelled to challenge you to a duel with rakes at
50 paces.
And, I should point out, deep resentment of humor aimed at one's state
IS common on afca. Of course, it's usually just deluded people ranting
about some god-forsaken place like Indiana or Missouri, so most of us
just ignore it.
Rebecca
"Brett Bayne" <bret...@aol.commieplot> wrote in message
news:20030807004533...@mb-m25.aol.com...
> I don't understand what all the hubbub is about. No Hollywood actor has
ever
> successfully run for public office!
>
>
Please tell me you're joking...
Rebecca
> As the shoddy nature of the Iraq incursion unfolded, someone close to me
<SNIP>
> For discussion:
>
> 1) Does AS have *ANY* relevant experience for this position? Even Jesse
> Ventura had SEAL training (good for leadership and organization) and was
> mayor of a small town for a time. As near as I can tell, AS's closest
> approach to political experience is porking Maria Shriver.
Yup, which practically makes him a Kennedy. Therefore he must run for
office. Further to that, he will die or be killed post haste.
Cheers!
Rebecca
James Gifford
> Yup, which practically makes him a Kennedy. Therefore he must run for
> office. Further to that, he will die or be killed post haste.
Well, I understand that the Kennedy clan let him marry in with the hope
of breeding a bulletproof president...
groo
He's joking, Rebecca.
groo
>
> Estron wrote:
>
> > c) you're saying "Hollywood actor" like the phrase itself is proof
> > that he has no talent or intelligence for anything else. "Hollywood
> > actor" Geena Davis was an Olympic-class archer. "Hollywood actor"
> > Hedy Lamarr was credited with co-inventing a device that helped win
> > World War II for the Allies.
>
> Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
>
Well, you don't expect _him_ to get up and dance, do you?
groo
>
> RM Mentock wrote:
> > James Gifford wrote:
> >> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending to
>
>
> Don't get me started. But the difference between a tiny fraction of
> experience and zero is vast.
Well, Ah-nuld has a tiny fraction, or maybe half a tiny fraction. He
spearheaded a ballot proposition in CA for after-school programs for
children, which won.
D.F. Manno
James Gifford <jgif...@surewest.net> wrote:
> For the first time in my life, I'm ashamed to be a Californian.
Be careful. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks.
"Watch what you say,
They'll be calling you a radical.
A liberal, a fanatical criminal."
--
D.F. Manno
domm...@netscape.net
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what
they do not want to hear." (George Orwell)
Jim Ellwanger
<nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
> *Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
> 65 signatures required to run.
>
> I don't think I'd even choose one--I'd probably just take the ballot home as
> a souvenir.
Hmm, I wonder how much I'll be able to get for my sample ballot booklet
on eBay after the election...
--
Jim Ellwanger <trai...@mindspring.com>
<http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com> welcomes you daily.
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."
SoCalMike
<ra...@westnet.poe.com> wrote in message
news:kDyYa.1532$6W2.5...@monger.newsread.com...
> SoCalMike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > whoever does get the election is going to either have to cut services,
or
> > raise taxes. sadly, i think they need to get rid of the 50,000 state
> > employees that were hired since he took office. at a WAG of $30k/year
per
> > employee, thats one billion, five hundred million dollars a year saved,
> > right there.
>
> $30K per person per year? Do they pay minimum wage?
just pulling numbers outta my ass, definately on the low side of things.
> Employees cost far
> more than just thier take home salary. If they're making on average $30K
> each (which would be criminally low for CA's COL) it would be costing more
> like $45K per year. At 50,000 employees, this comes to two and a quarter
> billion dollars.
which makes it even more wacky. how many employees would they have to lay
off to balance the budget?
Jerry Bauer
(in message <3F32E6F9...@groo.org>):
Brett wouldn't joke about something like that.
--
Jerry Randal Bauer
Opus the Penguin
> Well, as an outsider, I'd have to say that CA could do far worse than
> to elect Arnie to the governorship.
I agree that's so in the abstract. And I don't just mean because there are
kooks out there. In a regular election, I might vote for him, depeding on the
competition.
But it's going to take a real *politician* to win in a recal election and
generate enough consensus to improve California's situation.
--
Opus the Penguin
Opus the Penguin
It's that special "chip on the shoulder" attitude you've never been without
that you recall.
--
Opus the Penguin
"Cold as a falling thermometer in December"
Opus the Penguin
>> Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's
>> the best they can do.
>
> Really?
Probably.
> You're so disgusted with the Greyser, I figured you'd vote
> for Mickey Mouse.
Nope. As I've already said, I wouldn't even vote for Bill Simon, Davis'
Republican opponent in the 2002 election. So this isn't some new thing.
> (Which does make me wonder, is Mickey a resident of
> California these days, or did he change residency to Florida?)
>
> There must be *some* decent candidates, right? Is Riordan going to
> win? He's the only one we out here have ever heard of.
Riordan has stated that he will not run if Arnold decides to. Despite this
troubling lapse of intelligence, I'd still vote for Riordan if he changed his
mind.
> Added to our perceptions of the oddness of this of course is the
> likelihood that Davis will get more votes than any other candidate,
> possibly by a wide margin, in the recall and yet be booted out of
> office. He may get 49% of the votes, and the winner gets 10%. Um,
> sure, makes sense to me.
Davis is suing to have his name put on the list of replacement choices. The
law specifically does not permit this, but his lawyers are arguing that the
law violates the Constitution (whether US or State, I'm not sure). He may have
a point.
If he succeeds, and the Repubs (or whoever) can't field a non-bozo, I could
see myself voting for the recall and then voting for Davis as the replacement.
--
Opus the Penguin
Opus the Penguin
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:37:43 -0700, Opus the Penguin wrote:
>> Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's
>> the best they can do.
>
> I hope you didn't sign the recall petition...
I didn't. But I wouldn't be ashamed if I had.
> that's the question you should have asked before...
I did. And the answer was obvious. Arnold's not the best they can do. The
Republicans can easily offer a superior choice to Davis. Dick Riordan's name
was batted around as an obvious possibility. For that matter, the Dems could
easily offer a superior choice. Diane Feinstein's name was batted around a
lot.
I expected some chuckleheads to run. But I also expected at least one clear
possibility with which to replace Davis. I admit I did not expect the current
fiasco. Feel free to lecture me, with the benefit of hindsight, on how it was
totally predictable. I don't think it was (even with hindsight). Or, better,
feel free to point me to the posts where you predicted it and cited your
evidence that neither Riordan nor Feinstein (nor anyone decent) would run.
--
Opus the Penguin
Dilbert Firestorm
> Estron wrote:
>
>>Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, RM Mentock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>Schwarzenegger's apple. Before being elected governor of California,
>>Reagan had had, at least, the experience of being president of the
>>Screen Actors Guild. Schwarzenegger has produced a film and directed
>>two TV programs (according to imdb.com), but outside of that, I don't
>>know if he has anything on his resume indicating the leadership of a
>>sizeable group of people.
>
>
> Well, Arnold has also had the experience of running a large-ish company,
> Planet Hollywood ... into the ground. Apparently that's all the experience a
> Republican candidate needs these days.
to be fair, he's a liberul republican.
Dilbert Firestorm
> Previously, too loud said, in part:
>
>
>>Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
>>*Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
>>65 signatures required to run.
>
>
>
> Maybe they will print souvenir ballots.
>
>
eye suspect that she's a porn star given what you've described,
eye understand & understated that there are 2 female pornstars in the mix.
Blinky the Shark
> M C Hamster wrote:
>> Is it really true that Gary Coleman is also running?
> Yuh-huh. And Arianna Huffington. And Larry Flynt. And Angelyne.
For non-Angelinos non-John-Deans:
--
Blinky Linux RU 297263
Spam: The Boulder Pledge http://snurl.com/bpledge
Digest: Best of Internet Oracularities http://snurl.com/dig_oracle
groo
>
> In article <bgsu1h$rj05s$1...@ID-121148.news.uni-berlin.de>, tooloud
> <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
> > *Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
> > 65 signatures required to run.
> >
> > I don't think I'd even choose one--I'd probably just take the ballot home as
> > a souvenir.
>
> Hmm, I wonder how much I'll be able to get for my sample ballot booklet
> on eBay after the election...
With all of the people signing up, it seems like "booklet" may be the
wrong nomenclature, unless they use 1 point type.
GrapeApe
disappointed if that didn't happen.
Is it really true that Gary Coleman is also running? >><BR><BR>
Don't answer this question... we would want people to think that Coleman really
IS running. Coleman has the perfect comeback for any mud his opponents may
sling.
JB
>
> Davis is suing to have his name put on the list of replacement choices. The
> law specifically does not permit this, but his lawyers are arguing that the
> law violates the Constitution (whether US or State, I'm not sure). He may have
> a point.
He has a point all right. He wants two chances on the same ballot.
> If he succeeds, and the Repubs (or whoever) can't field a non-bozo, I could
> see myself voting for the recall and then voting for Davis as the replacement.
That makes little sense. Your ballot would mean:
a) I want that dolt OUT OF THERE!
b) Uh, no, I take it back.
Isn't the point of the recall to have an up-or-down vote on whether this
particular individual should stay or leave? Instantaneously replacing a
recalled pol with himself doesn't do that.
If Davis wins part A (the recall), then all the other candidates are out. If
Davis loses part A, then Davis is out and one of the replacement candidates
wins. Either way, Davis has a fair shot. If his name is allowed among the
replacements, then he gets more than a fair shot.
It would seem that voters who vote for Davis in part A should be prevented
from voting for his replacement. Their vote for Davis would be their vote
for governor, and they would therefore not have been deprived of voting for
their leader of choice as the court seems to believe.
The only fair way for Davis' inclusion among the replacement candidates would
be the elimination of part A (the recall). The ballot would simply consist
of all the candidates' names with no specific recall reference.
--JB
Robert Goodman
> A Hollywood actor without a shred of experience except at pretending
to
> be a man of steel (lit. & fig.) is about to be seriously considered
for
> what can be called one of the top two or three Chief Executive
positions
> in the country. Chief Executive of my state. This is hardly tearing my
> hair and wailing over a minor city council fumble.
> --
You think being CEO of a political unit is a hard job? Imagine a moron
in such an office. The moron would probably do nothing. And that's
about median performance. I mean, gov't is a matter of opinion; what's
good for one is bad for another. And I'm not making a joke or being
cynical; this is just the truth.
Robert
Bob Ward
<job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
>
>The only fair way for Davis' inclusion among the replacement candidates would
>be the elimination of part A (the recall). The ballot would simply consist
>of all the candidates' names with no specific recall reference.
How do you elect and install a new governor without pitching the
current one out?
D.F. Manno
"Opus the Penguin" <opusthe...@netzero.net> wrote:
> Davis is suing to have his name put on the list of replacement choices. The
> law specifically does not permit this, but his lawyers are arguing that the
> law violates the Constitution (whether US or State, I'm not sure). He may have
> a point.
I don't see how. If the court agrees, he would be a candidate only if
the recall succeeds. (If it falls, there's no replacement election.)
The voters just removed him from office. It would defeat the purpose
of the recall to let him run again.
Most recall provisions I'm aware do not allow the recalled candidate
to, in effect, replace himself.
D.F. Manno
JB <job...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART> wrote:
> It would seem that voters who vote for Davis in part A should be prevented
> from voting for his replacement. Their vote for Davis would be their vote
> for governor, and they would therefore not have been deprived of voting for
> their leader of choice as the court seems to believe.
The problem is this shotgun wedding of a recall election and the
special election to fill the unexpired term. If the two were
separated, there'd be no question that those who voted against the
recall could vote in the special election.
Most places, however, don't bother with the special election. If the
recall carries, then the usual procedure for filling a vacancy is
followed (e.g., the lieutenant governor becomes governor).
M C Hamster
news:3F331AF0...@carolina.rr.comTRIMTHISPART...
But again, if Davis gets 49% of the people in Part A, and the winner only
gets 20% in Part B, what is the logic whereby the winner in Part B,
preferred by only 20% of California voters, should become Governor?
It seems to me that there are two entirely different questions: a) Should
Davis be removed based on his job performance-- Yes or No? That's pretty
straightforward -- it's a referendum on his performance. b) Who should be
governor of California? Normally, there's this thing called an "election",
and people vote for different candidates who are running. Davis is clearly
running, just as much as the other candidates are. Seems to me the people
of California should be able to vote for whoever is running. I see Opus'
strategy as not inconsistent at all.
If you're going to say that Part A is Davis' chance for people to "vote" for
him (since they're denied that right in Part B), then you should count all
the "DON'T RECALL DAVIS" votes as votes *for* him. You compare that to the
votes for all the people in Part B, and whoever has a plurality wins.
>
> It would seem that voters who vote for Davis in part A should be prevented
> from voting for his replacement. Their vote for Davis would be their vote
> for governor, and they would therefore not have been deprived of voting
for
> their leader of choice as the court seems to believe.
Again, so you are saying that all the "don't recall" votes should be counted
as votes *for* Davis? That makes tons of sense to me, but that's not the
way this works, does it?
>
> The only fair way for Davis' inclusion among the replacement candidates
would
> be the elimination of part A (the recall). The ballot would simply
consist
> of all the candidates' names with no specific recall reference.
This would be entirely appropriate too. The point here is simply that,
despite Davis' abysmal performance and low popularity, the voters of
California may decide he is still the best of all the candidates running
(keeping in mind the winner only has to have a plurality, not majority, of
the votes). If the winner needed to have a majority of votes, then that
would be fair to Davis too.
M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
D.F. Manno
> Well, Ah-nuld has a tiny fraction, or maybe half a tiny fraction. He
> spearheaded a ballot proposition in CA for after-school programs for
> children, which won.
And that has what exactly to do with governing a state?
Joe Shimkus
"D.F. Manno" <domm...@netscape.net> wrote:
> In article <bguvts$sji0p$3...@ID-58324.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Opus the Penguin" <opusthe...@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> > Davis is suing to have his name put on the list of replacement choices. The
> > law specifically does not permit this, but his lawyers are arguing that the
> > law violates the Constitution (whether US or State, I'm not sure). He may
> > have
> > a point.
>
> I don't see how. If the court agrees, he would be a candidate only if
> the recall succeeds. (If it falls, there's no replacement election.)
> The voters just removed him from office. It would defeat the purpose
> of the recall to let him run again.
>
> Most recall provisions I'm aware do not allow the recalled candidate
> to, in effect, replace himself.
It could be used to send an expensive message. If Davis isn't recalled,
it could be concluded that most CA residents (at least of those that
bothered to take part) don't have a problem with Davis' rule. If Davis
is recalled but then selected to replace himself, it could be taken as
indicating that most CA residents (at least of those that bothered to
take part) are upset with Davis' rule but are giving him a chance to do
better. Sort of a "next time you're toast Davis" message although, as I
said, it would be an expensive one.
--
PGP Key (DH/DSS): http://www.shimkus.com/public_key.asc
PGP Fingerprint: 89B4 52DA CF10 EE03 02AD 9134 21C6 2A68 CE52 EE1A
Audrey Gifford
is profoundly arrogant, bigoted, incpmpetent, incapable of leadership
of any kind, dishonest, and disrespectful of the voters. "Experienced
with politics" means king of the backroom deals to me. Just in my
personal experience and in the personal experience of people I know he
has manipulated handicapped children to provide his office with the
appropriate sound bites while screwing them in the back offices (telling
the state controller to hold on their medical payments, while blaming
the republicans for mot passing the budget). One of my employees rooms
with one of his scheduling people. She tells stories that leave us
speechless all the time. (A sample - when it was Black History month and
a black group had asked him to speak he told her not to schedule
anything with blacks, blacks have no money, schedule them with jews,
jews have money. This is what he says in front of the flunkies. God
knows what he says in front of the inmner circle.
Davis ran his entire campaigns by trashing the oppoenyts. He thinks if
he delays this vote he will win because the peepul are so stupid they
will forget about being pissed at him by spring. (He lost that one in
court today.) He is comepletly convinced that the electorate is so
profoundly ignorant and malleable by the correct media dosages of his
crap that what hge actually does has no consequences whatsoever. to him
and his cronies, votes are something you buy with ads with slurs against
your opponents. The only thing that matters is airtime.
I still hold onto the niaevete of believing that maybe what you do
should count for something, even to those saddled with the ignorancxe
borne of the worst education system in the country. (And some of the
strongest teacher's unions).
So If Dianne F. won't run I'll take Arnie. He can't be worse. He is
properly appalled at the idiocy of the legislature (they all RAN AWAY to
avoid voting on the budget - they had each other arrested for using the
wrong libaries - you think the governor is the only nutcase thing going
on up here in Sacramento?) It doesn't matter if Davis says Arnie's a
nazi and a porn star - he says that about everyone anyway. (And besides,
in some neighborhoods porn star is a compliment.
Audrey
Greg Goss
>Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
>*Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
>65 signatures required to run.
If I lived in California, I'd probably run. Lots of people have
politics as a hobby, and $3500 isn't that high for a one-off
expenditure on a hobby.
Greg Goss
>Estron wrote:
>
>> c) you're saying "Hollywood actor" like the phrase itself is proof
>> that he has no talent or intelligence for anything else. "Hollywood
>> actor" Geena Davis was an Olympic-class archer. "Hollywood actor"
>> Hedy Lamarr was credited with co-inventing a device that helped win
>> World War II for the Allies.
>
>Why is everybody dancing around Ronald Reagan?
One person invents spread-spectrum radio signalling. The other
sleepwalks through a corrupt and incompetent presidency. Which one
provides better evidence that an actor can be competent?
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> In article <3F32E828...@groo.org>, groo <gr...@groo.org> wrote:
> > Well, Ah-nuld has a tiny fraction, or maybe half a tiny fraction. He
> > spearheaded a ballot proposition in CA for after-school programs for
> > children, which won.
> And that has what exactly to do with governing a state?
It's politics: you know, speaking to people, explaing your point of view
and getting them to agree with you.
John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> I did. And the answer was obvious. Arnold's not the best they can do.
> The Republicans can easily offer a superior choice to Davis. Dick
> Riordan's name was batted around as an obvious possibility. For that
> matter, the Dems could easily offer a superior choice. Diane Feinstein's
> name was batted around a lot.
Umm, I'm not so sure about that; the recall effort has a large potential
for backlash, and so they're not being too stupid to keep the thing kind
of at arms length and allow only expendables like Schwartzenegger in.
That being said, it's not too hard to do far worse than Arnie. I'd trade
my governor for him in a heartbeat.
> I expected some chuckleheads to run. But I also expected at least one
> clear possibility with which to replace Davis. I admit I did not expect
> the current fiasco.
What makes you belive it's a fiasco. Sure the media is hyping as a circus
for all thier worth, but that's what they do. But propositions and
recalls are inherently populist, and populists measures bring a circus
like atmosphere with them pretty much as a given, since that's what happen
when lots of people want to get into the act.
I would be far more concerned for CA's fate if *only* calm and staid
politico's were on this ballot. It would mean that no one really gave a
damn.
> Feel free to lecture me, with the benefit of hindsight, on how it was
> totally predictable. I don't think it was (even with hindsight). Or,
> better, feel free to point me to the posts where you predicted it and
> cited your evidence that neither Riordan nor Feinstein (nor anyone
> decent) would run.
I know little about Riordan, but Feinstein is one you're lucky to have put
behind you.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
It would be implicit in the question. Everything is folded together: who
do you want to be Governor, if the current one, then vote for him,
otherise the currrent one will be removed in favor of the guy who you vote
for"
ra...@westnet.poe.com
<snip>
> But again, if Davis gets 49% of the people in Part A, and the winner only
> gets 20% in Part B, what is the logic whereby the winner in Part B,
> preferred by only 20% of California voters, should become Governor?
Becuase 51% said *anyone* but this dolt back in part A. That's the way
that they phrased part A.
> It seems to me that there are two entirely different questions: a) Should
> Davis be removed based on his job performance-- Yes or No? That's pretty
> straightforward -- it's a referendum on his performance. b) Who should be
> governor of California? Normally, there's this thing called an "election",
> and people vote for different candidates who are running. Davis is clearly
> running, just as much as the other candidates are. Seems to me the people
> of California should be able to vote for whoever is running. I see Opus'
> strategy as not inconsistent at all.
> If you're going to say that Part A is Davis' chance for people to "vote" for
> him (since they're denied that right in Part B), then you should count all
> the "DON'T RECALL DAVIS" votes as votes *for* him. You compare that to the
> votes for all the people in Part B, and whoever has a plurality wins.
It certanly *could* be structured that way, but it's not. Question A)
isn't really 'do you want to vote for Davis', it's really 'do you want
this guy gone'. As such, then putting him in Part B is really 'do you
want him back now'. What does the _law_ say?
<Googles up CA law>{Ghod what a mess...}
Ah here it is, section 11381, Paragraph (c)
"(c) No person whose recall is being sought may be a candidate to
succeed himself or herself at a recall election nor to succeed any
other member of the same governing board whose recall is being sought
at the same election."
Davis is trying to break the law.
> > It would seem that voters who vote for Davis in part A should be prevented
> > from voting for his replacement. Their vote for Davis would be their vote
> > for governor, and they would therefore not have been deprived of voting
> > for their leader of choice as the court seems to believe.
> Again, so you are saying that all the "don't recall" votes should be counted
> as votes *for* Davis? That makes tons of sense to me, but that's not the
> way this works, does it?
Nope. Peeps get to vote in B providing they vote in A, either for or
agin. I understant the temptation to tweak the rules to favor thos or
that outcome, but how abouyt just playing wih the rules as written?
> > The only fair way for Davis' inclusion among the replacement candidates
> would
> > be the elimination of part A (the recall). The ballot would simply
> consist
> > of all the candidates' names with no specific recall reference.
> This would be entirely appropriate too. The point here is simply that,
> despite Davis' abysmal performance and low popularity, the voters of
> California may decide he is still the best of all the candidates running
> (keeping in mind the winner only has to have a plurality, not majority, of
> the votes). If the winner needed to have a majority of votes, then that
> would be fair to Davis too.
If that was the way the law was written, sure. But things are fair to
Davis now, since everyone knows that if he's the best of the candidates
running then the voters should vote to keep him in office. If you vote to
recall him, then he's definetly out of there. That's the way CA law is
structured.
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> In article <3F31BCB...@surewest.net>,
> James Gifford <jgif...@surewest.net> wrote:
> > For the first time in my life, I'm ashamed to be a Californian.
> Be careful. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks.
They got a short term backlash and a long term boost overall from the
added publicity?
tooloud
Eh, that's not a good enough reason for me, Greg. You'd be spending $3500 to
get a little exposure that might consist of news programs like The Daily
Show making crap out of you for ever believing you had a chance to be
Governor of California. I would genuinely get more excitement taking 3500 $1
bills and fluttering them off a tall building to see the people on the
street scramble.
Of course, YMMV.
--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply...
tooloud
> SoCalMike wrote:
>> whoever does get the election is going to either have to cut
>> services, or raise taxes. sadly, i think they need to get rid of the
>> 50,000 state employees that were hired since he took office. at a
>> WAG of $30k/year per employee, thats one billion, five hundred
>> million dollars a year saved, right there.
>>
>> or did i screw up on the math?
>
> No, just your thinking. I'm no fan of oversized government, but you
> can't run California with a six-person council and twelve clerks.
> Forty million people, the sixth-largest individual economy on the
> planet, and somewhere between a quarter and a third of the US's
> natural resources - not to mention the vast range of ecosystems and
> the tourist trade - make CA a hell of a big, complex entity.
>
> Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
Well, and certainly any one of them would probably do a better job than Gary
Coleman or Arnold.
You keep poking fun at Iowa while completely ignoring the fact that your
state is about to be run by one of 400 people, none of which appear to have
a clue about the office of Governor.
Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would never
happen here.
>> James Gifford * jgif...@surewest.net |
>> So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
>> Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
Mike
No lectures from me, but I think we had different expectations. My
expectation was that the recall committee would have lined up a candidate
that they thought could defeat Davis before they launched the recall drive.
Without that, they're reduced to either arguing that things couldn't
possibly get any worse, or making hopeful statements about the candidates
who will run if they are successful.
Either way, that's too uncertain for me.
-- Mike --
Margaret Kane
"Greg Goss" <go...@gossg.org> wrote in message
news:i0u6jv0vmkj92rcdc...@4ax.com...
It's not just a hobby, it's a promotional device:
99 Cents Only Stores Is Looking for a 99-Year-Old Californian to Sponsor in
the Upcoming Califonia Governor Recall Election
Tuesday August 5, 7:52 pm ET
COMMERCE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 5, 2003--99 Cents Only Stores
(NYSE:NDN - News) is searching for a 99-year-old Californian to sponsor in
the upcoming October 7, 2003, California Governor Recall Election.
99 Cents Only Stores will gladly pay the $3499.99 filing fee and gather the
signatures needed for its chosen candidate. Interested candidates should
contact Daryl Merson at 323-881-9993. Parental consent is not required.
99 Cents Only Stores® is the nation's oldest existing one-price retailer. 99
Cents Only Stores emphasizes name-brand consumables at an excellent value,
in its 167 clean, attractively merchandised stores located in California,
Nevada, Arizona and Texas. The company's New York Stock Exchange symbol is
NDN.
Note to Editors: 99 Cents Only Stores® news releases are available at
www.99only.com.
Margaret
Bob Ward
Since we get so many lousy actors from Canada, I guess it's a good
thing they can't run for President.
Estron
> Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would never
> happen here.
Iowa is, in fact, the least of just about everybody's concerns.
--
All opinions expressed are only that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
Kim
>
> It's not just a hobby, it's a promotional device:
>
> 99 Cents Only Stores Is Looking for a 99-Year-Old Californian to
> Sponsor in the Upcoming Califonia Governor Recall Election
> Tuesday August 5, 7:52 pm ET
> Interested candidates should contact Daryl Merson at 323-881-9993.
<snip to the good part>
> Parental consent is not required.
That was the funniest thing I've read today. Of course, it would have been
even funnier if they had said parental consent *was* required.
--
Kim
*The good thing about my alter ego, Underachiever Man, is that I don't have
to change clothes when I use my super powers. (Phillip Garding)*
David J. Martin
>
> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, tooloud wrote:
>
> > Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would never
> > happen here.
>
> Iowa is, in fact, the least of just about everybody's concerns.
Except the 32 people gunning for the Democratic nomination for President
(and the 18 people who run the Iowa government).
David
Bob Ward
>Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, tooloud wrote:
>
>> Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would never
>> happen here.
>
>Iowa is, in fact, the least of just about everybody's concerns.
Second only to the Kansas City area, of course.
Mary Shafer
> Previously, too loud said, in part:
>
> >Really, I'd love to just see the ballot: Arnold, Gary Coleman, Larry Flynt,
> >*Gallagher*, and about 450 people who managed to dig up $3500 and all of the
> >65 signatures required to run.
>
> And the woman with the huge tits, who wears pink, wassername.
Angelyne or some such. Unless you mean Adrianna Huffington, although
I don't believe she meets the first qualification.
> Maybe they will print souvenir ballots.
The ballot is going to be a phone book, not a pamphlet. We'll be able
to auction the sample ballots off on e-bay in a few years.
It's going to be an election like the one that produced Jesse Ventura.
I expect people to vote against recall for fear one of the weirdos
wins.
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
mil...@qnet.com
Mary Shafer
<opusthe...@netzero.net> wrote:
> Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's the best
> they can do.
We've got Gary Coleman, Gallagher, Angelyne, Adrianna Huffington,
Larry Flynt (the porn peddler who cares), Bustamonte, and who knows
who else. Arnold certainly isn't the best we can do in several
categories.
M C Hamster
news:VNNYa.1586$6W2.6...@monger.newsread.com...
>
> It certanly *could* be structured that way, but it's not. Question A)
> isn't really 'do you want to vote for Davis', it's really 'do you want
> this guy gone'. As such, then putting him in Part B is really 'do you
> want him back now'. What does the _law_ say?
Well, OK, but the whole problem seems to be that for Davis to "win", he has
to win a majority of votes. For anyone else to win, they win with only a
plurality. It doesn't exactly sound too fair, or sensible.
I just heard a radio commentary from Dave Ross on CBS radio, which made the
same point. His example was that since Davis' approval rating is 22%, he
might get 20% voting to retain him. The other 80% would be split up among
40 candidates running, or 2% each. Davis is preferred by 20% of
Californians, but someone becomes governor who might be preferred by 2%.
He referred to this as a "Baghdad election".
Why doesn't the Lieutenant Governor become governor if the governor can't
finish his term? Does California have a succession law? Does California
have *any* laws, for that matter?
M C Hamster
news:5nu7jv4o48oj062p9...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:37:43 -0700, "Opus the Penguin"
> <opusthe...@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> > Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's the
best
> > they can do.
>
> We've got Gary Coleman, Gallagher, Angelyne, Adrianna Huffington,
> Larry Flynt (the porn peddler who cares), Bustamonte, and who knows
> who else. Arnold certainly isn't the best we can do in several
> categories.
Huh, and here I thought Bustamonte was a porn star too. A gay porn star, in
movies with storylines involving RCMP cadets.
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> You keep poking fun at Iowa while completely ignoring the fact that your
> state is about to be run by one of 400 people, none of which appear to have
> a clue about the office of Governor.
You're just jealous because CA is a bigger agricultural power than IA.
> Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would never
> happen here.
Just one phrase here "Love Boat".
At this point in the discourse, however, I am required to point out
that Iowa State is an excellent school, particularly in aerospace
engineering, and some of NASA's best engineers were educated there.
However, many of them went on to get graduate degrees at the
University of California.
Dave Wilton
<jgif...@surewest.net> wrote:
>1) Does AS have *ANY* relevant experience for this position? Even Jesse
>Ventura had SEAL training (good for leadership and organization) and was
>mayor of a small town for a time. As near as I can tell, AS's closest
>approach to political experience is porking Maria Shriver.
Well, he was head of the president's council on physical fitness,
setting a shining example of steroid use for the kiddies...
But in short, no. He has absolutely no relevant experience.
Worse, California politics is a closed shop. The Sacramento mafia will
freeze him out. Not only is he a Republican in an overwhelmingly
Democratic state, but he doesn't have any buddies in the capital. If
elected, he will be utterly unable to get anything done.
>2) I've heard it said that Ahnie has peeked at politics more than once,
>only to be put off by exposure of his past. As I understand it, the
>entertainment reporting industry treads very lightly, since any negative
>press would bar them and their organizations from future press
>conferences, screenings, etc. However, I've heard it said that the
>political press doesn't give a rat's ass about such ostracism and has
>long been licking its chops over the feast AS-as-candidate would
>provide. Does Ahnie really think his brushes with neo-Nazi groups,
>homosexuality and gay men's magazines will be overlooked by the
>political reporters?
>
>3) WRT #2, how much documentation is there on these claims of shady
>associations in AS's past?
I don't think there is all that much. He has slept with a lot of
women, but that's unlikely to hurt him. I don't think that he has had
much to do with neo-Nazi groups. His father was a Nazi, but you can't
hold that against the son. Nor do I think he had brushes with
homosexuality. He certainly was a gay icon, but again that's not
Arnold's fault.
But then, the political reporters haven't really gotten started. More
may come out. And knowing Gray Davis, he has a big file on Ahnie that
will shortly be making its way into the hands of reporters. Davis
fights dirty, always has; he is a nasty SOB.
>Ghod, I need a handful of Motrin and a tall Jack Daniel's. On the
>freakin' Tonight Show, even. Arrrgghhhh!
Calm down. He hasn't been elected yet. My money is on Gary Coleman.
--Dave Wilton
da...@wilton.net
http://www.wordorigins.org
ra...@westnet.poe.com
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:37:43 -0700, "Opus the Penguin"
> <opusthe...@netzero.net> wrote:
> > Sigh. Ok, kids! The recall's off. I'm not voting for it if Arnold's
> > the best they can do.
> We've got Gary Coleman, Gallagher, Angelyne, Adrianna Huffington,
> Larry Flynt (the porn peddler who cares), Bustamonte, and who knows
> who else. Arnold certainly isn't the best we can do in several
> categories.
For the record, many if not most of those peeps aren't running under the
'Pub ticket. Flynt's a Dem IIRC.
Mary Shafer
<davo...@speakeasy.hairnet> wrote:
> "Mary Shafer" <mil...@qnet.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:5nu7jv4o48oj062p9...@4ax.com...
> > We've got Gary Coleman, Gallagher, Angelyne, Adrianna Huffington,
> > Larry Flynt (the porn peddler who cares), Bustamonte, and who knows
> > who else. Arnold certainly isn't the best we can do in several
> > categories.
> Huh, and here I thought Bustamonte was a porn star too. A gay porn star, in
> movies with storylines involving RCMP cadets.
There may be _a_ Bustamonte who is, but it's not _this_ Bustamonte.
This one is the Lieutenant Governor. Believe me, we'd know about his
film career if he had one. We would probably have seen clips in the
advertising, in fact.
What I don't understand about all this is why Davis doesn't just
resign, letting Bustamonte (a Dem) become governor. Then Bustamonte
could appoint Davis Lt. Gov. and resign himself. The recall only
applies to Davis, not to whoever is governor at the time.
Well, I understand about playing the odds and not wanting to give up
and not trusting Bustamonte to go through with the deal, but other
than little details like that I don't understand.
Since the folks talking up the recall, and paying for it, are all
conservative Republicans and talk-show jocks, I think it'll be
interesting if one of theirs gets elected. It's not as if it's going
to make a single bit of difference who the governor is, particularly
with the Lege being so partisan. Davis didn't get the state into
trouble and no one is going to be able to get the state out of
trouble, at least not single-handedly. CA governors aren't that
powerful, to begin with, and the economy sucks eggs, to end with.
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> Worse, California politics is a closed shop. The Sacramento mafia will
> freeze him out. Not only is he a Republican in an overwhelmingly
> Democratic state, but he doesn't have any buddies in the capital. If
> elected, he will be utterly unable to get anything done.
Like Gov Wilson was? Or the Republicans holding up the budget? Or
Pete Knight and Sharon Runner?
There are very few Republicans in statewide office (one, I think), but
that doesn't mean there aren't any in the Lege. Or the counties and
cities. Or the voting booths.
tooloud
> Previously on alt.fan.cecil-adams, tooloud wrote:
>
>> Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would
>> never happen here.
>
> Iowa is, in fact, the least of just about everybody's concerns.
No, that would be your whining about managing to have your license to
practice law revoked and having to work in an inbound call center for a
credit card company.
tooloud
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:18:48 -0500, "tooloud" <nospa...@mchsi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You keep poking fun at Iowa while completely ignoring the fact that
>> your state is about to be run by one of 400 people, none of which
>> appear to have a clue about the office of Governor.
>
> You're just jealous because CA is a bigger agricultural power than IA.
Well, sure, though it doesn't hurt that California is approximately three
times the size of Iowa, which is pretty much the median state as far as size
is concerned.
>> Iowa, it seems, should be the least of your concern, as that would
>> never happen here.
>
> Just one phrase here "Love Boat".
>
> At this point in the discourse, however, I am required to point out
> that Iowa State is an excellent school, particularly in aerospace
> engineering, and some of NASA's best engineers were educated there.
> However, many of them went on to get graduate degrees at the
> University of California.
>
> Mary
--
SoCalMike
> What I don't understand about all this is why Davis doesn't just
> resign, letting Bustamonte (a Dem) become governor. Then Bustamonte
> could appoint Davis Lt. Gov. and resign himself. The recall only
> applies to Davis, not to whoever is governor at the time.
interesting idea. i wonder if they thought of that? i think too many voters
would think its a dirty trick, and revolt against the dems for the next few
elections.
Gary S. Callison
: We've got Gary Coleman, Gallagher, Angelyne, Adrianna Huffington,
: Larry Flynt (the porn peddler who cares), Bustamonte, and who knows
: who else.
I do! [1]
2003 Gubernatorial Recall Candidates - California
Criteria for candidates to be listed on this page: (1) designated as
"Qualified" by CA Secretary of State; (2) paid $3,500 filing fee to CA
Secretary of State or submitted enough signatures in lieu of filing fee;
or (3) held formal press conference about candidacy.
Democrats:
Audie Elizabeth Bock - former state representative
Cruz M. Bustamante - current Lt. Gov
Jeremy Chapman - cigarette store owner
Gray Davis - current Gov
Oswaldo Diaz - accountant
March Fong Eu - fmr CA sec'y of state
Larry Flynt - free speech activist, porn publisher
John Garamendi - current insurance commissioner
Gerold Lee Gorman - ?
Joe Guzzardi - english teacher
David E. Kessinger - ?
Eric Korevaar - ?
Frank A. Macaluso, Jr.- doctor
Robert C. Mannheim - retiree
Paul Mariano - attorney
John Jack Mortensen - ?
William John Olson - ?
Bill Prady - ?
Mitchel C. Resnick - ? "Because I can!"
Darrin H. Scheidle - ?
Samuel Schwartz - ?
Mark Shirilau - electrical engineer
William B. Vaughn - ?
Republicans:
John W. Beard, Jr. - businessman
Logan Clements - TV producer
Richard Gosse - ?
Jim Hoffmann - teacher
S. Issa - engineer
Michael Jackson - businessman
Asimo Sondra Lawlor - ?
Tom McClintock - current state senator
Mike McNeilly - artist
Carl A. Mehr - ?
Kareem Muhammad - ?
Heather Peters - attorney (cute, too)
Daniel W. Richards - ?
Keith Richman - current state representative
Arnold Schwarzenegger - actor and failed restaurant chain owner
Barry Short - ?
Bill Simon - investment banker
Other Parties:
Austin Alexander (Non Partisan) - ?
Mohammad Arif (Non Partisan) - businessman
John Burton (Non Partisan) - attorney with bad dye job
Peter Miguel Camejo (Green) - activist, investment advisor
Christy Cassel (Non Partisan) - businesswoman
Leo Gallagher (Non Partisan) - guy who hits fruit with a hammer
Jack Loyd Grisham (American Independent) - singer
Ron Gulke (American Independent) - electrician/farmer
Sara Ann Hanlon (Non Partisan) - businesswoman
John J. Hickey (Libertarian) - retired scientist
Dale F. Ogden (Libertarian) - actuary
Ned Roscoe (Libertarian) - other cigarette store owner
Angelyne (Non Partisan) - woman willing to show boobs for money
Independent:
Thomas A. Benigno - retired farmer
Mary Carey - skanky ho
Gary Coleman - short guy who was once a funny little kid
Jason Gastrich - baptist minister
Arianna Huffington - columnist
Travis Kalanick - ?
Trek Thunder Kelly - artist
Mike P. McCarthy - ?
John V. Meeks - ?
Lee Michaels - ?
J. Leonard Padilla - ?
Jeff Rainforth - businessman
Georgina Russell - computer programmer, cutie
Brian Tracy - ?
Peter Ueberroth - former Major League Baseball commissioner
Michael J. Wozniak - retired cop
[1] Data taken from http://capwiz.com/usatoday/dbq/cagovcand/ and pages
linked to from that, © Copyright 2003 USA TODAY, a division of
Gannett Co. Inc, used without permission, please don't sue me, except for
the bit that was from
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/politics/2383654/detail.html which is © 2003,
Internet Broadcasting Systems, Inc, also used without permission, please
don't sue me.
--
Huey
SoCalMike
> Calm down. He hasn't been elected yet. My money is on Gary Coleman.
>
> --Dave Wilton
what chu talkin bout, wilton?
C.F. Earbass
>
> We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
>
> M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival
Not only is he running -- he's been selling these since the day he registered:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1469&item=2944754953
It adds an extra surreal touch to the entire thing.
Dave
Yeechang Lee
> to win a majority of votes. For anyone else to win, they win with only a
> plurality.
No; anyone else has to get a majority of the votes in part 1 of the
election (whether Davis gets recalled at all) *and* a
plurality. Candidate X could win 99% of the votes on part 2, but if
Davis gets 50.1% on part 1 that 99% means zip.
Yeechang "Not rocket science, people" Lee
--
Read my Deep Thoughts @ <URL:http://www.ylee.org/blog/> PERTH ----> *
15:23:01 up 5 days, 13:59, 15 users, load average: 1.85, 1.77, 1.62
155 processes: 145 sleeping, 8 running, 2 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states: 29.7% user 7.9% system 62.2% nice 0.0% iowait 0.0% idle
Mary Shafer
wrote:
> Mary Shafer wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:18:48 -0500, "tooloud" <nospa...@mchsi.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You keep poking fun at Iowa while completely ignoring the fact that
> >> your state is about to be run by one of 400 people, none of which
> >> appear to have a clue about the office of Governor.
> >
> > You're just jealous because CA is a bigger agricultural power than IA.
>
> Well, sure, though it doesn't hurt that California is approximately three
> times the size of Iowa, which is pretty much the median state as far as size
> is concerned.
I don't think the arable area is much larger, though. Deserts,
mountains, the coast, suburbs--not exactly prime farm land. And
there's a lot more Federal property.
I think the biggest Federal facility in Iowa is probably an office
building--California has Edwards AFB, 2/3 the size of Rhode Island
(not that it's very big itself); Camp Pendleton, much bigger than
Edwards; NAWC (China Lake); Beale AFB; Fort Irwin; etc, as well as
Yosemite, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, Pt Reyes, Death Valley, Joshua Tree,
and a bunch of other named places, plus all the National Forests. Not
that many of these places would be arable if privately owned, of
course. There are a lot of states smaller than the amount of Federal
land in CA.
About every square foot of Iowa is arable except the part with
buildings on it. OK, the sides of the bluffs on the river, being
vertical, aren't much good for cropping. There are no mountains in
Iowa. Nor is there any desert.
Mind you, I own a larger proportion of Iowa than of California and
it's all arable but the ponds and the driveways. Can't grow lemons
there, though.
And, for what it's worth, Iowa has almost twice as many counties as
California does--99 to 58. A third the size and almost twice the
counties.
groo
>
> groo wrote:
> > James Gifford wrote:
> >
> >> Iowa, now, you could run with eighteen people. :)
> >
> >
> > with the state government, and I want to let you know that I deeply,
> > deeply resent this.
> >
> > *could*, my ass.
>
> It's that special "chip on the shoulder" attitude you've never been without
> that you recall.
???
artyw
>
> You, sir, are getting on the wrong side of me. First you claim that the
> great state of Iowa is *not* run with eighteen people, and then you
> imply that my new home of California is *not* a smoldering pit of
> psychos.
Smoldering pit of psychos would be a great name for a band...
tooloud
>> Is it really true that Gary Coleman is also running?
>>
>> We midwesterners do try to be polite, but..... snicker.....
>>
>> M C Hamster "Big Wheel Keep on Turnin'" -- Creedence Clearwater
>> Revival
>
> Not only is he running -- he's been selling these since the day he
> registered:
Something tells me that it's not Gary Coleman selling those t-shirts, and
that he's probably not seeing a dime for them.
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1469&item=2944754953
>
> It adds an extra surreal touch to the entire thing.
>
> Dave
--
tooloud
<snip>
> Mind you, I own a larger proportion of Iowa than of California and
> it's all arable but the ponds and the driveways. Can't grow lemons
> there, though.
In what part of the state is your land?
> And, for what it's worth, Iowa has almost twice as many counties as
> California does--99 to 58. A third the size and almost twice the
> counties.
>
> Mary
--
Hank Gillette
hu...@interaccess.com (Gary S. Callison) wrote:
> Democrats:
> Audie Elizabeth Bock - former state representative
> Cruz M. Bustamante - current Lt. Gov
> Jeremy Chapman - cigarette store owner
> Gray Davis - current Gov
> Oswaldo Diaz - accountant
> March Fong Eu - fmr CA sec'y of state
> Larry Flynt - free speech activist, porn publisher
March Fong Eu? She's about 80 years old.
You can get the full list at this link:
<http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/recall_cand.htm>
--
Hank Gillette
Alina
Okay, you're not an Iowan. No Iowan could ever forget the Music Man
(and believe me, we've tried :)
Gary S. Callison
: You can get the full list at this link:
: <http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/recall_cand.htm>
_598_ candidates? Holy Mother of Pearl!
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/recall_cand_status.pdf
I am so glad I'm not a political reporter tasked with figuring out who the
hell all of these people are.
--
Huey