Worse DP than in the US
Donna Evleth
These two concern our friends the Saudis. The Saudis are our friends
because they have oil, and we need oil. If they did not have oil, would
they be our friends? I like to hope not.
Donna Evleth
_____
July 26
SAUDI ARABIA:
Saudis sentence Canadian to death
William Sampson, the Vancouver man who has been sitting in a Saudi
Arabian prison cell for 20 months, was found guilty and sentenced to be
beheaded in a secret trial earlier this year, Canadian officials say.
Mr. Sampson, accused of being part of a bomb plot that killed 2 other
expatriates in Saudi Arabia, has 1 last appeal, to the country's supreme
court, Reynald Doiron, a spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs
and International Trade, said yesterday.
The written appeal was submitted on Wednesday by a lawyer representing
Mr. Sampson, 42, and 5 co-accused Britons.
Canada is also trying diplomatic channels to spare Mr. Sampson's life,
Mr. Doiron said.
The Canadian ambassador in Riyadh, Melvyn MacDonald, expects an audience
in the next few days with a member of the Saudi royal family, Prince
Mohammed bin Naif, who is also the deputy interior minister.
James Sampson, William's father, said he has little faith in the strict
Islamic legal system that is in place in Saudi Arabia.
"They are a bunch of bloody savages. As Bill says, you might as well go
to the monkey house at the zoo to plead your case," the father said in an
interview yesterday minutes after being told of the appeal by a Canadian
consular official.
The death sentence was imposed by a lower court in March. But Canada
was not notified of the trial, the verdict or the sentence until April
17, Mr. Doiron said.
Saudi officials at the time were publicly denying reports that Mr. Sampson
and his co-accused had been secretly sentenced.
Faced with a tide of international criticism over allegations of
human-rights abuses, the Saudi government said earlier this year that
it is reforming its legal system to make it more open.
But the Saudi government has refused visa requests from The Globe and
Mail and other news organizations to cover the trials and appeals of Mr.
Sampson, the 5 Britons and a Belgian who is also charged in the case.
Normally, news media do not cover the courts in his country, Saudi
Ambassador Mohammed al Hussaini said.
Moreover, this case is "very sensitive." Public trials are a relatively
new thing "even in modern Europe," Mr. Hussaini said.
Mr. Doiron said information coming from Saudi Arabia has been
contradictory and confusing. A news agency said the only evidence
against Mr. Sampson and the 5 Britons is the statement of the
co-accused Belgian, who was said to have confessed and to have
implicated the others in exchange for a reduced sentence.
Mr. Hussaini said he has no information along these lines.
James Sampson said he is almost as upset with the federal government as
he is with Saudi authorities for keeping him in the dark about
developments in his son's case.
He said he thinks the federal government is more concerned about trade
with Saudi Arabia than with the plight of Canadians in trouble in the
country.
(Saudi Arabia has been a major purchaser of Canadian-made military
equipment.)
Mr. Sampson said he was not informed by Ottawa of his son's trial and
sentencing until yesterday. "I would have remembered April 17 [the date
Ottawa says it first learned of the sentencing] because that's Bill's
birthday."
Mr. Doiron said James Sampson may be confused and that he has been kept
informed of developments as the government becomes aware of them.
(Information on the case has been sketchy and unreliable. On April 25, a
Foreign Affairs spokeswoman said Canada had received an unconfirmed
report of the conviction and sentencing.)
William Sampson, who has reportedly said he does not want visitors,
even his father, was seen briefly by a Canadian diplomat on March 30 at
the prison.
Saudi authorities have refused to allow Canadian diplomats to meet
privately with Mr. Sampson.
He has been held in solitary confinement for most of the time since his
arrest in December of 2000.
Mr. Sampson has recanted a "confession" that was broadcast on Saudi
state television early last year.
Mr. Sampson, who was working for a Saudi development agency, and
the others were charged after a wave of bombings that killed several
Westerners.
Saudi authorities say the attacks were part of a turf war between foreign
gangs of bootleggers. Alcohol is banned in the kingdom, but authorities
often turn a blind eye to private consumption by foreign workers and
other expatriates.
James Sampson believes his son and the others are convenient scapegoats
for the royal family, which cannot control homegrown terrorists.
He said Saudi authorities are unwilling to believe or admit that the
antiforeigner bombings are the work of Saudis like those who hijacked
planes and crashed them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon
in the United States on Sept. 11.
(source: Toronto Globe & Mail)
**********************
Saudi Man Beheaded for Murder
A Saudi man was beheaded Friday for killing another man in a land
dispute, the Interior Ministry said.
In a statement to the official Saudi Press Agency, the ministry said the
dipute was over agricultural land but gave no other details. Both men had
the same family name but the statement did not say if they were related.
Friday's beheading raised to at least 27 the number of people who have
been executed so far this year in Saudi Arabia. At least 81 people were
beheaded last year.
Saudi Arabia, which is home to Islam's holiest shrines, follows a strict
interpretation of Islam and imposes the death penalty for murder, rape,
drug trafficking and armed robbery.
Executions are carried out in public with a sword.
(soruce: Associated Press)
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
>
> These two concern our friends the Saudis. The Saudis are our friends
> because they have oil, and we need oil. If they did not have oil, would
> they be our friends? I like to hope not.
>
not our friends. We do business with those who are not necessarily
our friends. I do not perceive the Saudis as our ENEMY, although
a great number of them are. Nor do I consider the Saudis 'moral'
in my subjective moral framework. And I consider them neither my
enemy nor my friend, but simply a business arrangement. If you're
asking how we would feel about them if they didn't HAVE oil, that
is one question. They would probably be seen as we see many
nations in Africa. Rather non-existent. But they DO have oil,
so I think the proper question is what would the effect be if they
refused to SELL that oil?
Were they to shut off the oil supply, horrendous economic conditions
would prevail for some time. But the world would not die. The 'planet'
would most probably welcome the effect. We existed long before
oil was discovered as an energy resource. What it would do, is
increase efforts in alternate energy sources, create a great number
of jobs in working on those energy sources, and put the world into
a temporary (perhaps prolonged) economic 'gulag.' Whether that
would ACTUALLY be good or bad for our species and our planet in
the VERY long term is highly debatable. There is the possibility
that it would be 'bad' in respect to lowering the standards we use
for energy resources. In a rush to 'more dirty coal,' and shale oil,
for example. There is the possibility that it would be 'good' if we
developed clean, CHEAP, alternate energy sources. The entire motor
vehicle industry would necessarily undergo a total transformation.
Energy, in the form of electrical power would suffer a quantum
leap in cost to the consumer, certainly for some length of time.
And even distribution of our pure water supplies would be sorely
affected. The migration of populations to more rural areas would
probably end, as people gathered more closely together again,
in a synergetic attempt to conserve energy resources. It is
recognized that the effect would be devastating for some time.
God has both blessed and cursed the Saudis with the lifeblood
of our economic existence in the world today. No other land
seems able to fill the role it plays, and no other land seems as
unwilling to play that role as the Saudis. Were it not for the
'Royal Family' exerting the control that it does, they would
return to nomads. All of course, IMHO.
But, if I have any concern in respect to the Saudis it is in the area
of Iraq, because the Saudis are impotent except in an economic sense.
They have no military significance, never have and never will (certainly
not in our lifetime or the lifetime of our children), except having a
strategic gateway into Iraq, who DOES have military significance.
A significance which doesn't just threaten an economic commodity
(albeit the most important economic commodity we have today), but
the lives of millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions, of people.
But in respect to the article. It is not my 'right' to impose my
'morality' onto other societies. I have enough problems swallowing
my own society's morality. That's why I never expect to impose
my 'morality' on European views of the DP, as well. I concern
myself only with defending the practices of MY society, that
I consider moral in my subjective moral framework.
PV
Vlad Drac
wrote:
>
>These two concern our friends the Saudis. The Saudis are our friends
>because they have oil, and we need oil. If they did not have oil, would
>they be our friends? I like to hope not.
>
>Donna Evleth
>
Why is it worse than the dp in the US?
The executioner, an Indian i believe, is very skillful and usually
beheads in one strike. That's a lot quicker than lethal injection,
lasting 6 minutes minimum. And it's also more cost-efficient.
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <3d41f125...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>, pat...@hotmail.com
(Vlad Drac) a écrit :
For me it's the due process aspect, the secret trial. That's why it's
worse. And I do have to admit that I am rather squeamish about the idea of
public executions, which I presume even children can watch.
Donna Evleth
Cerberus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
> {snipped}
> But, if I have any concern in respect to the Saudis it is in the area
> of Iraq, because the Saudis are impotent except in an economic sense.
> They have no military significance, never have and never will (certainly
> not in our lifetime or the lifetime of our children), except having a
> strategic gateway into Iraq, who DOES have military significance.
> A significance which doesn't just threaten an economic commodity
> (albeit the most important economic commodity we have today), but
> the lives of millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions, of people.
>
PV, DO NOT underestimate the Saudi Military. They have the very best
equipment that money can buy. Everything that opens and shuts has been
provided to them by both the US and UK with France licking up the crumbs.
Without doubt the MOST powerful military force in the middle east (Including
Israel) is Saudi Arabia. The Iraquis are just not in the same league. Nor is
Iran.
The Kindom of Saudi Arabia has an inordinate influence on the affairs of
most western countries, yet the citizens of these countries would not have a
clue how they are affected. It is the most secretive society in the World.
You need to have an invitation from a citizen of Saudi to even visit the
place. No civilian aircraft are allowed to overfly (just ask anyone that is
a passenger on a commercial flight from the far east into western Europe).
This adds at least one hour (and heavens knows how much extra cost) onto the
typical flight.
Anyway 'nuf said. Just have a look at that influence at play in your own
country. September is a very auspicious month in Saudi Arabia, and you have
not seen that last of them yet IMHO. Please God, that somebody in your
leadership wakes up, before great tracts of your country start glowing in
the dark. Islamic extremists will do ANYTHING to further their aims. Saudi
Arabia is where they are spawned. Is this significant enough for you?
WooF w00f WooF
>{declaration of moral outrage snipped}
> PV
>
> > Donna Evleth
> >
> > _____
> >
> > July 26
> >
{news reports snipped for brevity}
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
Cerberus
{snip}
>
> For me it's the due process aspect, the secret trial. That's why it's
> worse. And I do have to admit that I am rather squeamish about the idea
of
> public executions, which I presume even children can watch.
>
> Donna Evleth
It would be a mistake to assume that females and boys under 12 are regarded
as members of the 'public'. Executions that are considered "normal" i.e..
those that don't have a significance politically, don't seem to attract a
lot of attention. Send offs that fall into the other category are actually
publicised and of course have segregated areas for the various sexes.
Concession stalls are not uncommon (I kid you not). Overwhelmingly
miscreants that are actually sent to visit Allah, are the politically
unfortunate and those who, (usually migrant workers) can't afford to pay
'Blood Money'. Crowds of up to 40,000 have been recorded evidently.
FWIW
WooF w00f WooF
Richard J.
Public executions are much more honest than the way we do them in the
US. It is up to the parents to control what their children watch,not
the government.
--
Teflon
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> But in respect to the article. It is not my 'right' to impose my
> 'morality' onto other societies. I have enough problems swallowing
> my own society's morality. That's why I never expect to impose
> my 'morality' on European views of the DP, as well. I concern
> myself only with defending the practices of MY society, that
> I consider moral in my subjective moral framework.
>
> PV
And in the case of abortion? What then? If societies like China impose
abortion of female fetuses, for example, what do you say or do?
Donna Evleth
John Rennie
Oh Donna! That's why he voted for Bush.
incubus
"Vlad Drac" <pat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d41f125...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
I'm surprised they don't use a guillotine
John Rennie
"Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
news:3d424...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
>
> "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
> news:LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
>
> > {snipped}
>
> > But, if I have any concern in respect to the Saudis it is in the area
> > of Iraq, because the Saudis are impotent except in an economic sense.
> > They have no military significance, never have and never will (certainly
> > not in our lifetime or the lifetime of our children), except having a
> > strategic gateway into Iraq, who DOES have military significance.
> > A significance which doesn't just threaten an economic commodity
> > (albeit the most important economic commodity we have today), but
> > the lives of millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions, of people.
> >
>
> PV, DO NOT underestimate the Saudi Military. They have the very best
> equipment that money can buy. Everything that opens and shuts has been
> provided to them by both the US and UK with France licking up the crumbs.
>
> Without doubt the MOST powerful military force in the middle east
(Including
> Israel) is Saudi Arabia. The Iraquis are just not in the same league. Nor
is
> Iran.
Why then if they are so powerful do they pay 'Dane Geld' to terrorists
such as Osama bin Laden etc? The facts are that much of that
sophisticated
foreign equipment is operated by foreign personnel and that the number of
men in their forces (100,000) is far too small to defend an area the size
of Western Europe which is largely empty.
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d42ed41$0$25146$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
same position as I do with the DP. It is not my role to
play 'moral' judge of other societies. When I discussed
on-demand abortion in another thread, some time ago,
the question came up as to those seeking on-demand
abortions quite easily going to Canada, or elsewhere to
obtain abortions; making any law I would presume would
provide for MY society oversight of on-demand abortion
meaningless in MY society (when I speak of MY society
here, I am implying the society of which I am a member --
the Nation, country, and government of the U.S.). I cannot
concern myself with those who go to countries that have
rules which differ from my subjective moral values. I
concern myself with MY society's moral values. And
how my society speaks to those moral values. When
we permit on-demand abortion in MY society, I believe
we are wrong to do so.
I am not a part of an INDIVIDUAL who goes to another
country to have an on-demand abortion. But I AM a part
of my society, and feel being a part, that I am also a
microcosm of a party to on-demand abortion if my
society permits it without oversight. While I am certainly
no party to an individual who seeks an on-demand
abortion in another society. Thinking of it in terms of
murder (abortion is NOT murder in my view), I hope my
society speaks to that crime with the necessary laws I
feel appropriate. As I would hope MY society would
speak to on-demand abortion. But I do not believe my
society can speak to the laws of other countries in
respect to murder. Nor can I.
Does my subjective moral view approve of those acts
I see in other countries which differ from my moral view ?
Of course not. That would be an absurd conclusion.
Am I willing to state that they are OBJECTIVELY morally
wrong? Not really. Doing so would imply I wish to impose
MY moral views on another society. They are only so
wrong as I see them to be, in the sense of my subjective
views. In respect to China, the concept that they use to
justify abortion is repugnant to me. But I must concern
myself more with the acts which I oppose in my society
(country, government, Nation, what have you).
Further, the two concepts are rather different, since I oppose
on-demand abortion, and by extension, I certainly oppose
State-mandated abortion. In all practical cases the desire
to carry to term should rest with the carrier IF the carrier
wishes to carry to term. The State should only have a say
if the carrier wishes to on-demand abort the fetus. "State-
mandated' abortion strikes me as rather close to 'execution
without trial.'
PV
> Donna Evleth
>
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:6oE09.2700$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
in her contacts with known criminals and murderers. Just today,
a father befriended a 'homeless transient.' And while the father
went to the bathroom, the 'transient' grabbed the 6-year-old
daughter, took her two blocks away, attempted to rape her,
and then murdered her. He then returned to the house as if
nothing had happened. Eventually, leading police to the dead
girl's body. We think we are being kind... but we don't always
know the depths of depravity that are inside others. Donna
has been rather quiet, since I provided the name of a murdered
woman, who was murdered by a man she met through a
'contact with prisoners' pen-pal program. See --
http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/480407p-3835730c.html
PV
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:WLt09.21053$vN6.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
I feel the Saudi lacks courage, or the nomadic warrior spirit. But
that they ARE nomads by nature, and in the context of modern
warfare, it is no longer Richard the Lionhearted against Salidin.
Nor is Saudi Arabia a highly defendable area against armor such
as is Afghanistan.
PV
Cerberus
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WLt09.21053$vN6.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
A bit of light reading on Saudi for those interested.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html
http://www.csis.org/burke/saudi21/index.htm
And if you really want to get serious:-
http://www.csis.org/stratassessment/reports/saudimilit.html
Without going too far O.T. it would be fair to say that Saudi Arabia
controls the vast majority of the worlds oil resources. It doesn't have to
own them to control them. It has the worlds biggest production and by
varying that production, controls the price through OPEC. They, along with
Egypt are also pretty good at producing Terrorists. They have been for more
that 50 years.
Hands up those who know which western nation has the most influence with
Saudi Arabia?
WooF w00f WooF
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>>
> Donna should concern herself more with worrying about her safety
> in her contacts with known criminals and murderers. Just today,
> a father befriended a 'homeless transient.' And while the father
> went to the bathroom, the 'transient' grabbed the 6-year-old
> daughter, took her two blocks away, attempted to rape her,
> and then murdered her. He then returned to the house as if
> nothing had happened. Eventually, leading police to the dead
> girl's body. We think we are being kind... but we don't always
> know the depths of depravity that are inside others. Donna
> has been rather quiet, since I provided the name of a murdered
> woman, who was murdered by a man she met through a
> 'contact with prisoners' pen-pal program. See --
> http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/480407p-3835730c.html
>
> PV
PeeVish, once again you have made a mistake about me. You think I have been
"quiet" because you provided me with the name of a murdered woman who was
murdered by a man she met through a 'contact with prisoners' pen-pal
program, and I was thus frightened. In fact, I never saw this message.
Either I didn't get it at all, or I didn't read that particular message. I
don't always read your messages. They are just too long, and I am too busy
with other things these days. Which is the real reason I have been" quiet".
In any case, I refuse to become the kind of paranoid you suggest I should
be. So I suggest that you just leave me alone on that issue. I am not
interested in the product you are selling here, so don't bother me with it.
Donna Evleth
>
>
John Rennie
I am not quite sure that I get your drift. Are those who rule Saudi Arabia
powerful? Or is it that those who can taken over power in Saudi Arabia are
the powerful ones? Just as long as you appreciate that the present
leadership
of that country has not got a long lease.
http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,764615,00.html
and as for those foreigners who man SA's sophisticated weapons:
http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,764693,00.html
John Rennie
Personally I found this sub report more interesting than the above
http://www.csis.org/burke/saudi21/SaudiWaronTerr.pdf
I have selected certain passages.
"The various Aran Nationalist and Arab Socialist causes that once threatened
the regime have largely faded into history since the 1980s." but and its a
bloody big but,
"The social, cultural and economic upheavals in Saudi Arabia have, however,
led to continuing tensions with hard line Islamists who are far more
puritanical and conservative that the mainstream Wahhabi clergy. . . Osama
Bin Laden has emerged as the most well known of such violent Islamic
extremists, but Saudi security experts indicate that some 12000 or more
young Saudi men have received military or para military training outside
Saudi Arabia from various extremist groups in the Balkans and Central Asia."
The report goes on to say that the Saudi Royal family/and or government
admits many failings, the worst of which IMHO was their own education system
which advocated extremist views of the world and contained significant
anti-Christian and anti-Semitic content. The report stresses that Saudi's
government
has never 'knowingly' supported terrorism..
They are the authors of their own downfall, they encouraged extremism and
extremism will do for them. Your (Cerebuses') concentration on their oil
supplies
and their arms misses the point that all this so called 'power' is built on
a house of cards.
For good measure and for those whom lack a classical education I add this:
Dane-Geld by Rudyard Kipling
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say:-
'We invaded you last night, we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away.'
And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!
It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:-
'Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to
meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away.'
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray:
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:-
We never pay ANY-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!'
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
>
>
> Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>
> >>
> > Donna should concern herself more with worrying about her safety
> > in her contacts with known criminals and murderers. Just today,
> > a father befriended a 'homeless transient.' And while the father
> > went to the bathroom, the 'transient' grabbed the 6-year-old
> > daughter, took her two blocks away, attempted to rape her,
> > and then murdered her. He then returned to the house as if
> > nothing had happened. Eventually, leading police to the dead
> > girl's body. We think we are being kind... but we don't always
> > know the depths of depravity that are inside others. Donna
> > has been rather quiet, since I provided the name of a murdered
> > woman, who was murdered by a man she met through a
> > 'contact with prisoners' pen-pal program. See --
> > http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/480407p-3835730c.html
> >
> > PV
>
> PeeVish, once again you have made a mistake about me. You think I have been
> "quiet" because you provided me with the name of a murdered woman who was
> murdered by a man she met through a 'contact with prisoners' pen-pal
> program, and I was thus frightened. In fact, I never saw this message.
> Either I didn't get it at all, or I didn't read that particular message. I
> don't always read your messages. They are just too long, and I am too busy
> with other things these days. Which is the real reason I have been" quiet".
>
Let me again provide it for you, since it was addressed as a response
to YOUR post, I would think you'd at least read those responses.
--------------------------------------
We have a direct example in Phillip Jablonski. See
http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/killer/86/bkillers.htm
Jablonski murdered his prison pen-pal wife and her mother. For
more on this, see
http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=7845
Where it reports that "Jablonski, 47, is charged with the April 1991
mutilation slayings of four women, including his wife and her mother
in Burlingame, while on parole for killing his third wife. Jablonski has
been diagnosed with schizophrenia, a mental disorder that causes
him to hear voices..."
"The women were shot and sexually mutilated. Carol Spadoni
married Jablonski on June 16, 1982, while he was serving a prison
sentence for the 1979 murder of his third wife, Melinda Kimball.
Jablonski also is charged with killing Fathyma Vann, 38, in Indio,
about 25 miles from Palm Springs, the day before the double-murder.
Vann was found shot and sexually mutilated in the desert with ``I
love Jesus'' carved in her back."
And then we have the case presently in play in England. See...
http://www.sltrib.com/2002/apr/04092002/utah/726834.htm
Here you will find the story of Robert Elmer Kleasen. Who
murdered two Mormon missionaries in Austin, Texas.
Kleasen spent two years on DR for one of those murders,
but was released when an appeals court tossed out a
search warrant used to convict him. He then spent another
15 years in prison on unrelated charges. Finally free in 1990,
he married -- and reportedly terrorized -- a woman with whom
he had formed a pen-pal relationship while in prison. Only
the fact that he is again in prison and awaiting extradition
to again be charged with those murders has saved that
poor, deluded woman from the same fate.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> In any case, I refuse to become the kind of paranoid you suggest I should
> be. So I suggest that you just leave me alone on that issue. I am not
> interested in the product you are selling here, so don't bother me with it.
>
Sorry, sport... I have a responsibility to my species, regardless
if they pay attention or not. What could I say -- when I meet God --
if he asks 'Why didn't you speak of this to that woman?" If you
see it as paranoia, then I see you as naive. It's as simple as that.
This is not a 'chicken-little' type posting. I well remember your
'challenge' to me when I broached this subject -- you said --
"As I suspected, you cannot name any murderers who murdered their
pen pals. You are only CERTAIN. But with no factual data.
Thus your certainty doesn't add up to much."
And then when I responded, you suddenly fell silent, and now claim
you 'didn't see my post.'
PV
> Donna Evleth
> >
> >
>
Cerberus
>
> "Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
> news:3d436...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
> >
> > "John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:WLt09.21053$vN6.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> > >
> > > "Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3d424...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
> > > >
> > > > "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
> > > > news:LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > > > news:3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
> > > >
> > > > > {snipped}
> > > >
to PV snipped}
> > > Why then if they are so powerful do they pay 'Dane Geld' to terrorists
> > > such as Osama bin Laden etc?
There is a long established tradition, a lot of it based on the teachings of
the Koran, that it is better to pay than to fight. (I could extrapolate and
say that the French and the Italians have taken this basic tenant and
modified it to read "that it is better to surrender, than fight', but I
won't, as I could quite justifiably be seen as a Troll). I do not believe
that there is any evidence of the Saudis paying 'Dane Geld' to Bin Laden.
Anecdotal evidence points to the fact that they have made several concerted
efforts to repatriate him back into the Kingdom so that he could be dealt
with. Then again several Saudi watchers of my acquaintance have also told me
of unconfirmed reports of large sums becoming available to him via state
owned businesses. Who knows for sure?
The facts are that much of that
> > > sophisticated
> > > foreign equipment is operated by foreign personnel
With respect, the facts ARE that none of this equipment is operated by
anyone other that Saudi Citizens. The Saudis have more that two and a half
million trained reservists under the age of 45. They are also smart enough
to import British Special Force veterans to provide the best tactical and
training support that can be supplied. I know of several of these people and
it is an unspoken about "perk' that retiring elite British Army personnel
can avail themselves of.
> and that the number
> of
> > > men in their forces (100,000) is far too small to defend an area the
> size
> > > of Western Europe which is largely empty.
The emptyness is of course a very large advantage. The 100,000 that you
mention are the nucleus of a much larger reserve military that I mentioned
above. The Saudis have quite a number of very modern and largly disguised
facilities scattered around the landscape. I am led to believe they also
have a inordinate amount of materiel, spares, ammunition, fuel reserves,
vehicles and weaponary.
> > >
> >
> >
> > A bit of light reading on Saudi for those interested.
> >
> >
> > http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html
> > http://www.csis.org/burke/saudi21/index.htm
> >
> > And if you really want to get serious:-
> > http://www.csis.org/stratassessment/reports/saudimilit.html
> >
>
> Personally I found this sub report more interesting than the above
>
> http://www.csis.org/burke/saudi21/SaudiWaronTerr.pdf
I found this report interesting also. I glad that you took the time to delve
deeper into the site. Of course if I was a less scrupulous correspondent I
could claim that I put the index hyperlink there on purpose. But I wont.
I'm sorry, but I consider your assessment incorrect in this matter.
>
> For good measure and for those whom lack a classical education I add this:
Desi, PV and Dirt are you paying attention?
>
> Dane-Geld by Rudyard Kipling
{ Half of the xenophobic provocative writing of Mr Kipling clipped}
> It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
> For fear they should succumb and go astray:
> So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
> You will find it better policy to say:-
>
> We never pay ANY-one Dane-geld,
> No matter how trifling the cost;
> For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
> And the nation that plays it is lost!'
'Dane Geld', I think not
Bucksheesh......Bucksheesh......Howajji......Bucksheesh.
Is more appropriate methinks.
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
>
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> >
> >
> > Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
Planet
> > Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
snip
> Let me again provide it for you, since it was addressed as a response
> to YOUR post, I would think you'd at least read those responses.
> --------------------------------------
> We have a direct example in Phillip Jablonski. See
> http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/killer/86/bkillers.htm
> Jablonski murdered his prison pen-pal wife and her mother. For
> more on this, see
snip more of the same
No doubt about it, women do seem to have a grudge
against themselves.
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
I know you will not believe me, PeeVish, when I say I did not see your
post, but it is true. All too often I hesitate to open your posts, as you
so often tend to be nasty. Whether or not I open your posts depends on how
up I am to deal with nasty on any given day. It also depends on how much
time I have. I actually have a life, and I spend a goodly amount of time
living it. Your posts tend to be incredibly long. You live in beautiful
Florida, a famous vacation land. Don't you ever get out into the sunshine?
I advise you do so.
I notice one common denominator in the two cases you present here. The two
women both married the men who murdered them. Marriage turns "pen pal" into
a whole different ballgame. I have no intention of marrying a prisoner. To
begin with I am already married.
Finally, if you're so concerned for me, why don't you just pray for me?
Silently? You think I'm naive, I still think you are paranoid. Someone
here, I have forgotten who, wrote: "PV is more paranoid than a lot of the
people on this group feel comfortable with." I concur.
Donna Evleth
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
>
>
> Dans l'article <0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>
> >
> > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> >> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
<clipped a whole bunch of excuses>
> Finally, if you're so concerned for me, why don't you just pray for me?
> Silently? You think I'm naive, I still think you are paranoid. Someone
> here, I have forgotten who, wrote: "PV is more paranoid than a lot of the
> people on this group feel comfortable with." I concur.
>
Huh??? 'silently pray for you.' What kind of an argument is
that? I 'silently pray for Good Will Toward Men,' but I also
speak out when I see acts that don't include such 'Good
Will,' beginning with murder itself, and including acts such
as perpetrated in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on both sides;
the horrendous destruction of life in the former Yugoslavia
republics (while desi has stated "Europe has not had a
war now since 1945, and in matters of morals, has led the
world for over two thousand years"); the almost genocidal
oppression of the Kurds; poverty; despair; disenfranchisement;
racism; border restrictions imposed against true refugees
seeking only a better opportunity; the WTC terrorists; ALL
acts of terrorism; and those who would support murder in
their lust to presume themselves 'morally' superior, while
ignoring the points I've mentioned. It is the height of
irresponsibility to claim that I should 'only' say a 'silent prayer'
for you, but otherwise, keep my counsel.
I can well imagine who was the author of the comment you
mention. He undoubtedly filled the position of the latter of
those I mentioned. If I demonstrate what to you appears
to be paranoia, perhaps 14,000 homicides a year in the
U.S. rather justifies such a view. While you would tend
to 'gloss over' that number, in what I consider to be naivety.
PV
> Donna Evleth
>
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message news:and19.167527
snip
It could be that Donna IS naive and that you ARE paranoid; given the choice,
I plump for Donna's naiveté rather than
your paranoia.
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
Unfortunately, naiveté can get you (and others) killed. Paranoia
doesn't hold that danger. If given the choice, especially when
dealing with murderers, which is the entire crux of the dialog, I
well prefer paranoia to naiveté. And I think my examples rather
prove that to be right. Would you call a father who invites a
'homeless transient' into his home, 'naive' or 'paranoid'? Keep in
mind, his doing so, cost the life of his young child.
PV
Cerberus
>
>
> Dans l'article <0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>
> >
> > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
Planet
> >> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>Someone here, I have forgotten who, wrote: "PV is more paranoid than a lot
>of the people on this group feel comfortable with." I concur.
>
> Donna Evleth
Who was the 'Wonderful White Winged Warrior' that made such a profound and
insightful comment about PV's online persona?
Obviously a very intuitive person. Will the culprit please stand up?
A Planet Visitor
"Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message news:3d45f...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
>
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> >
> >
> > Dans l'article <0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> > Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > >
> > > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > > news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> Planet
> > >> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >Someone here, I have forgotten who, wrote: "PV is more paranoid than a lot
> >of the people on this group feel comfortable with." I concur.
> >
> > Donna Evleth
>
> Who was the 'Wonderful White Winged Warrior' that made such a profound and
> insightful comment about PV's online persona?
>
> Obviously a very intuitive person. Will the culprit please stand up?
>
was neither 'intuitive' nor was he 'unbiased.'
PV
A Planet Visitor
> news:3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> >
> >
> > Dans l'article <0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> > Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > >
> > > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > > news:3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dans l'article <4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A
> Planet
> > >> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >Someone here, I have forgotten who, wrote: "PV is more paranoid than a lot
> >of the people on this group feel comfortable with." I concur.
> >
> > Donna Evleth
>
> Who was the 'Wonderful White Winged Warrior' that made such a profound and
> insightful comment about PV's online persona?
>
> Obviously a very intuitive person. Will the culprit please stand up?
>
> WooF w00f WooF
>
Bet you any money that person was no retentionist. Thus he
was neither 'intuitive' nor was he 'unbiased.'
PV
Let me hope my other message was deleted.
Earl Evleth
j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 29/07/02 18:09 :
Speaking as a life long observer, my wife is not naive. Working in history
teaches anyone to gather all the facts and let them speak. Likewise,
anybody who has come through the last few years ahead on the investment
game can't be naive.
PV likes to play word games and to get other people to play them.
His paranoia is sometimes authentic and sometimes just a tactic
of particular game.
Earl
A Planet Visitor
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> dans l'article dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net, John Rennie ŕ
> j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 29/07/02 18:09 :
>
> >
> > "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message news:and19.167527
> >
> >
> > snip
> >
> >
> > It could be that Donna IS naive and that you ARE paranoid; given the choice,
> > I plump for Donna's naiveté rather than
> > your paranoia.
>
> Speaking as a life long observer, my wife is not naive. Working in history
> teaches anyone to gather all the facts and let them speak. Likewise,
> anybody who has come through the last few years ahead on the investment
> game can't be naive.
>
> PV likes to play word games and to get other people to play them.
> His paranoia is sometimes authentic and sometimes just a tactic
> of particular game.
>
you are welcome to your opinion. After all...as you so inelegantly
point out... she's your wife. Which in terms of our species, doesn't
mean a thing. It seems I am more concerned for her safety (and
yours as well), than YOU are. Which doesn't say much about YOU,
'sport.' Nevertheless, I will continue to remark on it, when I see
demonstrations of the naďveté I mentioned, while saying that 'silent
prayer' that Donna requested I say for her. And I hope that neither
of you, ever come to need it.
PV
"To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it."
Martin Luther King Jr.
> Earl
>
>
dirtdog
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
<snipped>
>>
>> Obviously a very intuitive person. Will the culprit please stand up?
>>
>Bet you any money that person was no abolitionist. Thus he
>was neither 'intuitive' nor was he 'unbiased.'
>
>PV
>
LOL!
For one who has just produced well over 200 words dedicated to a
patent typo, that was a mighty unfortunate fuck up, PV.
I knew that you were pretty clueless, but I always thought you knew
which 'side' you were on.
Perhaps the spankings you have received over your childish grammatical
practices have left you somewhat red faced.
w00f
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> "Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
>> dans l'article dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net, John Rennie à
>> j.re...@ntlworld.com a écrit le 29/07/02 18:09 :
>>
>> >
>> > "A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message news:and19.167527
>> >
>> >
>> > snip
>> >
>> >
>> > It could be that Donna IS naive and that you ARE paranoid; given the
choice,
>> > I plump for Donna's naiveté rather than
>> > your paranoia.
>>
>> Speaking as a life long observer, my wife is not naive. Working in history
>> teaches anyone to gather all the facts and let them speak. Likewise,
>> anybody who has come through the last few years ahead on the investment
>> game can't be naive.
>>
>> PV likes to play word games and to get other people to play them.
>> His paranoia is sometimes authentic and sometimes just a tactic
>> of particular game.
>>
> If you believe that concern for the safety of another human is 'paranoia,'
> you are welcome to your opinion. After all...as you so inelegantly
> point out... she's your wife. Which in terms of our species, doesn't
> mean a thing. It seems I am more concerned for her safety (and
> yours as well), than YOU are. Which doesn't say much about YOU,
> 'sport.' Nevertheless, I will continue to remark on it, when I see
> demonstrations of the naïveté I mentioned, while saying that 'silent
> prayer' that Donna requested I say for her. And I hope that neither
> of you, ever come to need it.
>
> PV
PeeVish, you are full of advice for me, you ignore my advice for you. Get
out and enjoy the Florida sunshine. And leave me alone. Paranoia will
annoy you, and yours is annoying me. Knock it off, sport.
>
> "To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it."
> Martin Luther King Jr.
Your paranoia is starting to become evil, and I do not wish to become an
accomplice to it.
Donna Evleth
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:23:12 +0000
>
>Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:59:43 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> the naïveté
>
>Ah, good ... nice to see that you got the spelling of that one
>sorted. What a pity that you had to check back in your obsession-
>fuelled archive of my posts, to find it ... as you previously
>spelled it incorrectly.
>
>{ snip remainder of LDB being spanked ... as it's getting to be as
> common an occurrence as the sun rising in the East ... }
>
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-b
erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:23:12 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 20
>Message-ID: <slrnakdtdg.jvb.p...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d42ed41$0$25146$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><6oE09.2700$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><and19.167527$XH.37...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
><3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028060595 35624415 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
>X-Orig-Path: lievre.voute.net!nobody
>X-No-Archive: true
>X-OS: BSD UNIX
>X-PGP: http://www.zeouane.org/pgp/pubring.pkr
>User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (FreeBSD)
>
Desi is afraid of his own words! He can be reached at des...@noos.fr or
des...@zeouane.org.
As everyone knows, only COWARDS forge posts yet don't allow their own to be
archived!
Now Desi, Tell us about the Baltimore County police.
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnakdtdg.jvb.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:59:43 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > the naïveté
>
<belly laugh on>
> Ah, good ... nice to see that you got the spelling of that one
> sorted.
ROTFLMAO... the guy doesn't even believe his 'BIBLE'
(the OED) anymore. He's just stumbling around in the dark now.
> What a pity that you had to check back in your obsession-
> fuelled archive of my posts, to find it ... as you previously
> spelled it incorrectly.
Actually, I've been spelling it correctly all the time. Both
ways are correct.
>
> { snip remainder of LDB being spanked ... as it's getting to be as
> common an occurrence as the sun rising in the East ... }
>
How would you know? Every one of your posts presumes it
rises in the West. :-(
Deceit is your only motto -- First lie, then deny, and then your
evil always follows. So you should really learn how to play
that 'instrument,' called 'deceit,' before you start tooting it in
front of an audience. It's would be very embarrassing for you...
if you had such an emotion.
Isn't it great to be back with that football, desi? Back to you, dirt.
<belly laugh off>
Into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 yet again -- <plink>
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |EVEN SATAN KNOWS
|AND LIFTS HIS BROW IN WONDER AT
|THE EVIL DESI SHOWS
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d4704ba$0$1743$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
man, and get called 'evil,' for doing so. What kind of a person
DOES something like that? What kind of a person would
demonstrate so much concern for MURDERERS, and then
call someone who expresses concern for HER -- 'evil.'
Could that someone be married to another who believes all
those who support the DP have 'corroded souls'? What the
hell is the MATTER with you two? Where is your SENSE
OF PERSPECTIVE? Argue if you will against the DP, and
whatever other subjects you wish. But I can guarantee you
I AM NOT EVIL. We should well recognize the true face
of 'evil' here. It is NOT EVIL to find murder disgusting.
Or to have concern for innocents. But it is EVIL to EXCUSE
MURDER.
Let me tell you what I see -- A pedophile functions by trolling
the streets around children and often asking them to 'help
find his dog.' Knowing full well the naive, and helpful nature
of that child. And he will PREY on that naive and helpful
nature. Would you NOT tell your children to beware of such
behavior? Do you believe it is paranoia and evil to TELL them
of your suspicions? Now you, as the Mother, seem to
believe it would be. But I am the NEIGHBOR... and I will
tell both you and your child that IT IS DANGEROUS.
Now, given that you have concern for those in prison, I can
understand that aspect. But you should ALWAYS work
from a position of anonymity. Join a group venture,
contribute time, money and effort to organizations involved
in those type activities. BUT NEVER, NEVER form a
close relationship, on a first name basis with a murderer,
or even a violent criminal. There are two possibilities that
represent a danger. One -- He may psychologically
exhibit 'transference,' where his rage for being held,
will transfer to the ONLY person he sees connected
with being held. Even if you are not a party to his
being held, he might CONNECT with you, because
there is NO ONE else to vent that rage upon. Second --
he may PREY on you purposely on his release.
He is disconnected at that moment, and may seek
shelter, food, money, or some form of assistance.
At that point, any rejection of his 'demands' would
be seen as rejection of HIM. There is of course,
the third possibility that upon release any actions
taken by him would be totally benign, or not even
come into existence. You seem willing to accept
that choice as the ONLY possibility. And perhaps
the ONLY possibility when the man asks your
child to help him 'look for his dog,' will be that he
--- really has lost his dog --- .
Please do not call me 'evil' for expressing concern
for my fellow man, or warning you to watch out for
the man looking for his dog. And I know apologies
are beyond Earl... so now we will test the waters
with you.
PV
> Donna Evleth
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"dirtdog" <dog.of.sp...@w00f.cxm> wrote in message news:i6qdku8g9ga27et2h...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:42:16 GMT, "A Planet Visitor"
> <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> >>
> >> Obviously a very intuitive person. Will the culprit please stand up?
> >>
> >Bet you any money that person was no abolitionist. Thus he
> >was neither 'intuitive' nor was he 'unbiased.'
> >
> >PV
> >
>
> LOL!
>
> For one who has just produced well over 200 words dedicated to a
>
<belly laugh on>
Rather obsessive, searching desperately for posts that were
removed from newsreaders (not from google), and replaced by
the correct wording one hour later.
The post you responded to -- arrived google 29 Jul 20:42:43 PST
My corrected post - arrived google 29 Jul 21:43:12 PST
At that time I also cancelled the first post from my server.
Your response to first post -- arrived google 30 Jul 11:59:50 PST
So you had to dig it out, and IGNORE the corrected post which
was posted more than 14 hours prior to your post. Talk about
a hypocrite. BTW -- You're still a potty-mouth... you still
have (sic) for an 'education' (sic), and you still don't know
how to spell targeted. Patent 'typo,' MY ASS.
> I knew that you were pretty clueless, but I always thought you knew
> which 'side' you were on.
>
It won't be the last time I'll think about changing sides. Unlike
you, my brain has not ossified into concrete.
> Perhaps the spankings you have received over your childish grammatical
> practices have left you somewhat red faced.
>
We all know who's been spanked here, dirt. Here, there and
everywhere.
<belly laugh off>
Into dirt' 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
PV
> w00f
>
>
>
>
Earl Evleth
Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 31/07/02 8:36 :
> And I know apologies are beyond Earl..
Nothing has changed in my early diagnosis of the condition of
your soul.
You do have a problem, my "good" man.
So bark on, my caravan passes.
In fact our caravan heads off to southern France tomorrow.
Earl
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> Now, given that you have concern for those in prison, I can
> understand that aspect. But you should ALWAYS work
> from a position of anonymity. Join a group venture,
> contribute time, money and effort to organizations involved
> in those type activities. BUT NEVER, NEVER form a
> close relationship, on a first name basis with a murderer,
> or even a violent criminal. There are two possibilities that
> represent a danger. One -- He may psychologically
> exhibit 'transference,' where his rage for being held,
> will transfer to the ONLY person he sees connected
> with being held. Even if you are not a party to his
> being held, he might CONNECT with you, because
> there is NO ONE else to vent that rage upon. Second --
> he may PREY on you purposely on his release.
> He is disconnected at that moment, and may seek
> shelter, food, money, or some form of assistance.
> At that point, any rejection of his 'demands' would
> be seen as rejection of HIM. There is of course,
> the third possibility that upon release any actions
> taken by him would be totally benign, or not even
> come into existence. You seem willing to accept
> that choice as the ONLY possibility.
I accept that choice as the only realistic possibility in the case of the
murderer with whom we correspond. He is on death row in Arizona. Even if
he were to be released, in light of current appeals, it won't happen
tomorrow, and the logistics of the indigent man who is in poor health coming
to Paris to get me are so complicated as to be unreal. In fact, he
corresponds with other people right in Arizona. If he wanted to exhibit
transference or "prey" on someone, he has people a lot closer and easier to
get at than me. So I consider your fears for me exaggerated to say the
least.
This is the only violent criminal I know or deal with.
I am beginning to find your paranoid harping on my supposed danger a
harassment. When paranoia becomes harassment, you must forgive me if I see
a touch of evil there.
Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
Evleth ą dev...@noos.fr a écrit le 31/07/02 16:04 :
> Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
>
> Donna Evleth
I keep telling my dear wife that under the rock creatures like PV
hate the sunshine.
Tomorrow our caravan departs from Paris, first for Clairvaux and
prison, to see Barry, and then down to the Riviera, Menton, to be
specific at the Italian border. Sun all the way, but I will think
about the under-the-rock PV-like creatures enjoying their slime.
Earl
A Planet Visitor
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:B96DD044.116A%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> dans l'article 3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net, Donna
> Evleth ą dev...@noos.fr a écrit le 31/07/02 16:04 :
>
> > Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
> >
> > Donna Evleth
>
>
> I keep telling my dear wife that under the rock creatures like PV
> hate the sunshine.
>
You're a moron, Earl. A brain ossified moron. And you can't
stand that I've shown you to be one.
> Tomorrow our caravan departs from Paris, first for Clairvaux and
> prison, to see Barry, and then down to the Riviera, Menton, to be
> specific at the Italian border. Sun all the way, but I will think
> about the under-the-rock PV-like creatures enjoying their slime.
>
Who cares??? Just more of your silly 'mindless drivel' (sound
familar?), from your 'dear diary' excerpts. Take a murderer
along with you, why don't you? It's good for the 'soul.'
<belly laugh off>
PV
> Earl
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
you. But OTHERS interact with him on a daily basis.
Both guards and other prisoners. And they ALL can
talk. OTHERS can find your name. OTHERS can connect
with you, as a possible 'sympathetic' voice, or an 'easy
mark' that they might take advantage of. I'm sorry for
you if you cannot see this.
> This is the only violent criminal I know or deal with.
>
> I am beginning to find your paranoid harping on my supposed danger a
> harassment. When paranoia becomes harassment, you must forgive me if I see
> a touch of evil there.
>
I never expected you to believe it is an expression of real
concern. But it is, despite your blindness to it. Nor did I
ever actually expect an apology. Unlike you, I am not
that naive. You may call me 'evil' all you wish. But it is
MURDERERS who are evil.. And you can take that to the
bank. Yes.. you will stay in my prayers. And may God
help you, because I sometimes believe you are not using
the brain that he gave you.
> Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
>
I get quite enough sunshine, 'sunshine.' All my posting is
done in the afternoon, evening, and even into the early
morning. It is rare when I turn on my computer before noon.
While I still run 5 miles every morning. It's rather obvious
that I'm a Type A personality, just from the manner of my
aggressive posting style. And no one has EVER called me
otherwise. In retirement, it's not been easy to exhibit
what I did in my working years. I've ALWAYS been in a
hurry (heaven forbid someone would say that is 'driven'),
and my competitiveness has brought me to trouble more
than once, and yet I seemed never to get to where I wanted
to be. Perhaps, because I am also famous for having often
'outwitted myself.' While not being possessed of any
'deep intellectual' background as your husband, has still
kept me humble.
But I think your husband should try it (exercise, that is),
to cleanse the ossification which I see taking place in his
brain. He should be the one you are hoping to cajole
out of his robe and slippers and 'get some sunshine.'
Those prisons can be dark, forbidding and very depressing
to the 'soul.' Hardly what one would call 'sunshine.'
PV
> Donna Evleth
>
Earl Evleth
Visitor à abc...@zbqytr.ykq a écrit le 1/08/02 3:24 :
>> Tomorrow our caravan departs from Paris, first for Clairvaux and
>> prison, to see Barry, and then down to the Riviera, Menton, to be
>> specific at the Italian border. Sun all the way, but I will think
>> about the under-the-rock PV-like creatures enjoying their slime.
>>
> Who cares???
I assume that as an under the rock type, you'd care! I am
thinking of you (retch retch).
Remember, people are generally divided into two groups.
There are the sun or sunny types like Donna and I, and other
abolitionists. People of the Sun.
Then, on the other side of the human coin are the slimy types like
yourself who hide from the sun of truth under their rocks of lies.
Currently I am setting in the bright light of a sunny day in Paris,
with the window open, typing away. And Gaston curled at might
feet. The bags are packed, a friend is coming to stay here to water
our plants, and our neighbors plants during our absence. A happy
time.
Earl
Donna Evleth
Dans l'article <05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
>>
>>
>> Dans l'article <nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
>> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Again... you miss my point. Perhaps HE is no danger to
> you. But OTHERS interact with him on a daily basis.
> Both guards and other prisoners. And they ALL can
> talk. OTHERS can find your name. OTHERS can connect
> with you, as a possible 'sympathetic' voice, or an 'easy
> mark' that they might take advantage of. I'm sorry for
> you if you cannot see this.
I knew you would bring this up, as you have brought it up before. All I
can tell you is that we have been visiting Barry for over seven years and
nothing like that has ever happened. Nor do I expect it to. I simply
refuse to get so paranoid. I'm sorry for you if you cannot see that. Your
repeated shouting about OTHERS does, however, once again indicate your own
paranoia.
>
>> This is the only violent criminal I know or deal with.
>>
>> I am beginning to find your paranoid harping on my supposed danger a
>> harassment. When paranoia becomes harassment, you must forgive me if I see
>> a touch of evil there.
>>
> I never expected you to believe it is an expression of real
> concern. But it is, despite your blindness to it. Nor did I
> ever actually expect an apology. Unlike you, I am not
> that naive. You may call me 'evil' all you wish. But it is
> MURDERERS who are evil.. And you can take that to the
> bank. Yes.. you will stay in my prayers. And may God
> help you, because I sometimes believe you are not using
> the brain that he gave you.
No, I have never thought that you express real concern for me other than in
a patronizing, paternalistic fashion, trying to correct the stupid, naive
child by scaring her. Frighten the kiddie into proper behavior. Your
remarks about my having been "quiet" after you gave me examples of women
murdered by pen pals indicate all too well that this is your attitude.
>
>> Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
>>
> I get quite enough sunshine, 'sunshine.' All my posting is
> done in the afternoon, evening, and even into the early
> morning. It is rare when I turn on my computer before noon.
> While I still run 5 miles every morning. It's rather obvious
> that I'm a Type A personality, just from the manner of my
> aggressive posting style. And no one has EVER called me
> otherwise. In retirement, it's not been easy to exhibit
> what I did in my working years. I've ALWAYS been in a
> hurry (heaven forbid someone would say that is 'driven'),
> and my competitiveness has brought me to trouble more
> than once, and yet I seemed never to get to where I wanted
> to be. Perhaps, because I am also famous for having often
> 'outwitted myself.' While not being possessed of any
> 'deep intellectual' background as your husband, has still
> kept me humble.
Humble????? You?????
>
> But I think your husband should try it (exercise, that is),
> to cleanse the ossification which I see taking place in his
> brain. He should be the one you are hoping to cajole
> out of his robe and slippers and 'get some sunshine.'
> Those prisons can be dark, forbidding and very depressing
> to the 'soul.' Hardly what one would call 'sunshine.'
I can't figure out why you keep talking about robe and slippers. Your spies
are not very good. If they were worth anything at all, they would know that
Earl normally wears long pants and a sweatshirt in winter, long pants or
shorts and a short sleeved shirt in summer. And regular shoes and socks all
year around.
Actually, I do often encourage him to find a better hobby. One that does
not involve the Internet. One that does not include you.
We are leaving on vacation later today. We will be gone for three weeks,
which we will spend by the sea, in a town that we have vacationed in off and
on for 40 years. It will be a relaxing time, free of paranoid scoldings.
Donna Evleth
>
>
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote:
[regarding PV]
> Humble????? You?????
When he's not being doggedly dogmatic and stubboern, PV is capable of
self-deprecating humility. It is that quality that remains endearing
about him. He is capable, on his day, of having a laugh at his own
expense.
A pity that his day appears to be happening less and less as time goes
by.
Mr Q. Z. D.
--
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"...Base 8 is just like base 10 really... ((o))
If you're missing two fingers." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
John Rennie
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
message news:jonathan-726217...@news.pacific.net.au...
> In article <3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>,
> "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote:
>
> [regarding PV]
>
> > Humble????? You?????
>
> When he's not being doggedly dogmatic and stubboern, PV is capable of
> self-deprecating humility. It is that quality that remains endearing
> about him. He is capable, on his day, of having a laugh at his own
> expense.
>
> A pity that his day appears to be happening less and less as time goes
> by.
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
Gresham's Law again. The more he sinks to doggie and Desmond's
level, the more he becomes like them and as that is their purpose, the
more they win.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
While I fully appreciate your stance, I feel that he could descend
_further_ and to everyone's advantage. If he could decide that doggie's
"I fucked your mum" stuff is all juvenile but very, very funny and that
all of Desmond's bile is something to grin to then he'd come out on top
_and_ illustrate that this silly rote abuse comes to nothing in the case
of intelligent people.
PV, doggie and Desmond are all very, very clever people. Why should
they be so boring when they're arguing amongst themselves when, one
would intuitively feel, the opposite would be true?
A little silliness and gross, gross vulgarity goes a long, long way.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote:
> Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:12:57 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
> <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > PV, doggie and Desmond are all very, very clever people. Why should
> > they be so boring when they're arguing amongst themselves when, one
> > would intuitively feel, the opposite would be true?
>
> I'm flattered, QZD, but I certainly don't consider myself any more
> intelligent (or 'clever') than the next bloke. Nor, you will note,
> have I ever claimed to be.
>
> I was just fortunate enough to be born and brought up a European, and
> to have the benefit of a British university-supplied classical education.
>
>
> Not the greatest in the world, but more than enough to wipe the floor
> with a naturalised American whose first language is Chinese, and who
> was growing rice until his sixteenth birthday.
As ever, I feel that you're confusing "bloody-minded stubbornness" and
"immaturity" with non-English-language-speaking or "stupidity".
The man annoys me, for sure, but you count his imagined weaknesses
alongside his real issues.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:25:04 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 21:46:04 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
><jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
>>> Humble????? You?????
>
>> When he's not being doggedly dogmatic and stubboern, PV is capable of
>> self-deprecating humility. It is that quality that remains endearing
>> about him. He is capable, on his day, of having a laugh at his own
>> expense.
>
>LOL ... one can tell you're not American, Jon. Such superb irony would
>be almost impossible to imagine, 'outre-Atlantique' ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!howland.erols.net!fu-berl
in.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:25:04 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <slrnakia50.105d....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d42ed41$0$25146$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><6oE09.2700$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><and19.167527$XH.37...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
><3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d4704ba$0$1743$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><jonathan-726217...@news.pacific.net.au>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028204693 36083256 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:08:19 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:58:01 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> When he's not being doggedly dogmatic and stubboern, PV is capable of
>>> self-deprecating humility. It is that quality that remains endearing
>>> about him. He is capable, on his day, of having a laugh at his own
>>> expense.
>>>
>>> A pity that his day appears to be happening less and less as time goes
>>> by.
>
>> Gresham's Law again. The more he sinks to doggie and Desmond's
>> level, the more he becomes like them and as that is their purpose, the
>> more they win.
>
>*ding*
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.g
blx.net!nntp.gblx.net!newsxfer.visi.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.ma
xwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-f
or-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:08:19 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 23
>Message-ID: <slrnaki95j.105d....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><LKi09.147366$XH.32...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d42ed41$0$25146$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><6oE09.2700$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><and19.167527$XH.37...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
><3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d4704ba$0$1743$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><jonathan-726217...@news.pacific.net.au>
><8n929.2150$NE3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028203685 35991009 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:23:13 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:12:57 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
><jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> PV, doggie and Desmond are all very, very clever people. Why should
>> they be so boring when they're arguing amongst themselves when, one
>> would intuitively feel, the opposite would be true?
>
>I'm flattered, QZD, but I certainly don't consider myself any more
>intelligent (or 'clever') than the next bloke. Nor, you will note,
>have I ever claimed to be.
>
>I was just fortunate enough to be born and brought up a European, and
>to have the benefit of a British university-supplied classical education.
>
>Not the greatest in the world, but more than enough to wipe the floor
>with a naturalised American whose first language is Chinese, and who
>was growing rice until his sixteenth birthday.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-b
erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:23:13 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 26
>Message-ID: <slrnakia1h.105d....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><3d42ed41$0$25146$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><6oE09.2700$g81.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><and19.167527$XH.37...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
><3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d4704ba$0$1743$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><jonathan-726217...@news.pacific.net.au>
><8n929.2150$NE3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
><jonathan-99D46F...@news.pacific.net.au>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028204681 36577071 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:44:08 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:34:11 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo
><jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Not the greatest in the world, but more than enough to wipe the floor
>>> with a naturalised American whose first language is Chinese, and who
>>> was growing rice until his sixteenth birthday.
>
>> As ever, I feel that you're confusing "bloody-minded stubbornness" and
>> "immaturity" with non-English-language-speaking or "stupidity".
>>
>> The man annoys me, for sure, but you count his imagined weaknesses
>> alongside his real issues.
>
>A scoop for you, Jon. I don't think that PV is stupid. Arrogant,
>uneducated *, pompous, self-obsessed, yes.
>
>It's all in the definition of 'stupid'.
>
>* note that one can be uneducated, and bright, just as one can be
> highly educated and thick as 'pick [sic] shit'. Then one can be
> both highly educated and a fucking genius to boot ... like me. :-)
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-b
erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Worse DP than in the US
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:44:08 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 28
>Message-ID: <slrnakj0bn.11fc....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d41a1b6$0$13604$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><4gI09.14664$s8.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d439d9a$0$24021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><0M319.22569$s8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d451d1a$0$2909$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
><and19.167527$XH.37...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><dNd19.1127$cy.1...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>
><B96C1CE4.7D4%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
><3Cz19.36980$s8.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d4704ba$0$1743$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
><jonathan-726217...@news.pacific.net.au>
><8n929.2150$NE3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
><jonathan-99D46F...@news.pacific.net.au>
><slrnakia1h.105d....@lievre.voute.net>
><jonathan-8C5E21...@news.pacific.net.au>
>Reply-To: pasdespa...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028227480 36331329 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
A Planet Visitor
> Le Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:12:57 +1000, Mr Q. Z. Diablo <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > PV, doggie and Desmond are all very, very clever people. Why should
> > they be so boring when they're arguing amongst themselves when, one
> > would intuitively feel, the opposite would be true?
>
> intelligent (or 'clever') than the next bloke. Nor, you will note,
> have I ever claimed to be.
>
> I was just fortunate enough to be born and brought up a European, and
> to have the benefit of a British university-supplied classical education.
>
You've made my day.
> Not the greatest in the world, but more than enough to wipe the floor
> with a naturalised American whose first language is Chinese, and who
> was growing rice until his sixteenth birthday.
>
Now, now desi... be careful of that twitch in your eye, that
tremor in your hand, and the vein in your temple... that keeps
going baboom...baboom...baboom.
Literally.... ROTFLMAO.
PV
> { snip }
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
A Planet Visitor
"Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:3d48f734$0$18977$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
>
>
> Dans l'article <05029.53334$s8.10...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
>
> >
> > "Donna Evleth" <dev...@noos.fr> wrote in message
> > news:3d47d23e$0$9465$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> Dans l'article <nzL19.43048$s8.9...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "A Planet
> >> Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Again... you miss my point. Perhaps HE is no danger to
> > you. But OTHERS interact with him on a daily basis.
> > Both guards and other prisoners. And they ALL can
> > talk. OTHERS can find your name. OTHERS can connect
> > with you, as a possible 'sympathetic' voice, or an 'easy
> > mark' that they might take advantage of. I'm sorry for
> > you if you cannot see this.
>
> I knew you would bring this up, as you have brought it up before.
Then I can presume it is GETTING THROUGH TO YOU.
> All I
> can tell you is that we have been visiting Barry for over seven years and
> nothing like that has ever happened. Nor do I expect it to. I simply
> refuse to get so paranoid. I'm sorry for you if you cannot see that. Your
> repeated shouting about OTHERS does, however, once again indicate your own
> paranoia.
Why should 'I' be paranoid? I am in no danger. Trust me, the
LAST thing you could expect from me is bringing flowers to
prisoners, in prison for violent crimes. Paranoia is to presume
that danger to oneself is behind every corner. I perceive no
danger to me or anyone I know personally from YOUR
behavior. I only have CONCERN for you. I am not paranoid
about YOU... because I wouldn't even know if anything happened
to you as a result of your behavior. Your behavior cannot
affect ME in any measure, except in the small microcosm of
my concern for one of our species. If I was at a pedestrian
cross-walk, and the walk-light was 'stop,' and the stranger next
to me, stepped off as if getting ready to cross, and I perceived
a car approaching, it would NOT be paranoid to say 'watch out.'
That person can in no way affect ME, but I still have CONCERN
for him/her. Whether that person glares angrily at me, moves
away and steps into the path of that car, affects ME not in the
slightest. Except I would probably weep for his/her stupidity.
As I would weep for yours, if it came to pass and I knew of it.
Were I not to know of it, I would shed no tear. But none of
that can be considered paranoia. I believe you need to look
up the medical definition, because I think you're using the
term because you are like that pedestrian in the cross-walk.
Angry that I have shown concern. And lashing out in that
anger, in the only way you know how... by calling me paranoid,
and saying 'don't tell me what to do!!!' You really should practice
on your logic, your medical knowledge and take a tranquilizer
as well. It is not me that you should be angry with.
> >
> >> This is the only violent criminal I know or deal with.
> >>
> >> I am beginning to find your paranoid harping on my supposed danger a
> >> harassment. When paranoia becomes harassment, you must forgive me if I see
> >> a touch of evil there.
> >>
> > I never expected you to believe it is an expression of real
> > concern. But it is, despite your blindness to it. Nor did I
> > ever actually expect an apology. Unlike you, I am not
> > that naive. You may call me 'evil' all you wish. But it is
> > MURDERERS who are evil.. And you can take that to the
> > bank. Yes.. you will stay in my prayers. And may God
> > help you, because I sometimes believe you are not using
> > the brain that he gave you.
>
> No, I have never thought that you express real concern for me other than in
> a patronizing, paternalistic fashion, trying to correct the stupid, naive
> child by scaring her. Frighten the kiddie into proper behavior. Your
> remarks about my having been "quiet" after you gave me examples of women
> murdered by pen pals indicate all too well that this is your attitude.
Ah, yes.. that angry glare from the pedestrian, and the remark
'leave me alone.' If I HAVE frightened you, it will have to be
enough. Perhaps to make you more aware of the situation
and your surroundings. Which is at least something. I would
do the same for the Mother, who has not taught her child to
not follow a strange man who 'is looking for his dog.'
> >
> >> Now go outdoors and enjoy the sunshine. You'll feel better for it.
> >>
> > I get quite enough sunshine, 'sunshine.' All my posting is
> > done in the afternoon, evening, and even into the early
> > morning. It is rare when I turn on my computer before noon.
> > While I still run 5 miles every morning. It's rather obvious
> > that I'm a Type A personality, just from the manner of my
> > aggressive posting style. And no one has EVER called me
> > otherwise. In retirement, it's not been easy to exhibit
> > what I did in my working years. I've ALWAYS been in a
> > hurry (heaven forbid someone would say that is 'driven'),
> > and my competitiveness has brought me to trouble more
> > than once, and yet I seemed never to get to where I wanted
> > to be. Perhaps, because I am also famous for having often
> > 'outwitted myself.' While not being possessed of any
> > 'deep intellectual' background as your husband, has still
> > kept me humble.
>
> Humble????? You?????
Perhaps you can tell me where you've seen any demonstration
which lacks this humble behavior I speak of? That is, aside from the
times I've administered a thorough tongue-lashing to your
mate. It's hard to be humble, when one bursts the balloon of
one so pompous, and sanctimonious.
> >
> > But I think your husband should try it (exercise, that is),
> > to cleanse the ossification which I see taking place in his
> > brain. He should be the one you are hoping to cajole
> > out of his robe and slippers and 'get some sunshine.'
> > Those prisons can be dark, forbidding and very depressing
> > to the 'soul.' Hardly what one would call 'sunshine.'
>
> I can't figure out why you keep talking about robe and slippers. Your spies
> are not very good. If they were worth anything at all, they would know that
> Earl normally wears long pants and a sweatshirt in winter, long pants or
> shorts and a short sleeved shirt in summer. And regular shoes and socks all
> year around.
>
Yeah..yeah... spousal affection runs deep... does it?
> Actually, I do often encourage him to find a better hobby. One that does
> not involve the Internet. One that does not include you.
>
Advise he should heed, if he expects to not have his arguments
ripped to shreds.
> We are leaving on vacation later today. We will be gone for three weeks,
> which we will spend by the sea, in a town that we have vacationed in off and
> on for 40 years. It will be a relaxing time, free of paranoid scoldings.
>
Bon voyage.
PV
> Donna Evleth
> >
> >
>
A Planet Visitor
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in message
Tried that with dirt. Didn't work. Felt like vomiting every time
I posted. That's when I started referring to it as 'potty mouth,'
and using the ****, which despite all their denials, has often
managed to cause a violent reaction on their part. Which
made me realize that I should never lower myself to that
particular level.
> PV, doggie and Desmond are all very, very clever people. Why should
> they be so boring when they're arguing amongst themselves when, one
> would intuitively feel, the opposite would be true?
>
I'm not very clever. I've said before that I've been chewed up
and spit out a number of times in my life, by those much more
clever than I am. It's simply that those two don't really constitute
any competition. That's why you might see me as 'clever.' Einstein's
Law -- Relativity. Compared to those two geraniums that mutated
into having an ability to pick at a computer keyboard... I'm a fucking
genius.
> A little silliness and gross, gross vulgarity goes a long, long way.
>
Not a road I care to travel on.
PV