The Gift
S Donohue
Never noticed before, but before the Scoobies leave the Magic Box, Tara
points at Giles and says 'You're a killer.'
I just love all the character interaction, and the way they come up with a
great plan using everything they can think of that will help.
You'll find elsewhere on the net all kinds of analysis of Buffy's heroic
sacrifice (e.g. http://ivyweb.com/btvs/fictionary/essays/010804A_DED.htm ),
so I'll just say I love seeing her as a noble, messianic,
selfless hero. In retrospect, I wish they'd finished the series here.
Sean
Shuggie
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
Y
O
I
L
E
R
Y
G
U
DG
EY
C
U
d
g
E
E
C
O
O
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:23:31 GMT, "S Donohue" <sgdo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I love that episode.
>
It's grown on me a lot since I first saw it on Sky.
>Never noticed before, but before the Scoobies leave the Magic Box, Tara
>points at Giles and says 'You're a killer.'
>
I didn't spot it til the second time either.
>I just love all the character interaction, and the way they come up with a
>great plan using everything they can think of that will help.
>
Anya's good in it. Some great dialogue, some good acting. In many ways
vintage Buffy in fact. At the time I had a big problem with the
technicalities of the plot ('How come Buffy can take Dawn's place?',
'Suddenly Olaf's a Troll-God not just a Troll?') - but I'm over that.
>You'll find elsewhere on the net all kinds of analysis of Buffy's heroic
>sacrifice (e.g. http://ivyweb.com/btvs/fictionary/essays/010804A_DED.htm ),
>so I'll just say I love seeing her as a noble, messianic,
>selfless hero. In retrospect, I wish they'd finished the series here.
>
I wouldn't go that far. No S6, no musical for one thing.
--
Shug
Her lips were saying 'No' but then I looked into to her eyes
... and her eyes were saying 'read my lips'
- Niles Crane
Dave Emberton
news:ka459ugn0o95ik87j...@4ax.com...
In retrospect, I wish they'd finished the series here.
Having watched it again last night, I have to agree. One hundred episodes, 5
series and that ending would have been the perfect time for BTVS to leave
our screens. With S6 having been largely average (OMWF aside), whatever
final final ending Buffy now has (no doubt at the end of S7) is bound to
feel a bit lame compared to "The Gift". Sad, but true.
Dave
Ian Kirk
message news:3c933ab2$0$20367$1b0f...@mercury.nildram.co.uk...
Regarding final final endings - some wild speculation based on a random
thought that just struck me.
This may not be original, but what if Slayers initially got their powers as
a result of some great big magic spell, and the "price" for that spell was
the ability for vamps et al to have easy access to our world. Or maybe the
other way round - the nasties cast the access spell, and having the Slayer
on their backs thereafter was the price they had to pay.
Slightly incompatible with Giles' "in the beginning" spiel in WTTHM, but
they've retconned far worse in the past.
Which could lead to a final, final ending of Buffy arranging the
cancellation of both sides of the spell, Angel coincidentally turning human
as a result of his own work, and both settling down to a normal, demon-free,
life in suburbia. Blerch.
Ian
Gunnar Harboe
wrote:
Hey, I really like that idea! Especially since an end to that many
supernatural phenomena could conceivably be seen as an apocalypse (as
per tediously many prophecies in 'Angel'; Wolfram&Hart are in for a
surprise); I like the twist that in the end it's the good guys that
cause the end of the world (as they know it).
I'm a bit worried about what would happen to all the benevolent/harmless
demons we've seen in both shows (has it been made clear if Lorne for
instance has a soul? Where do you draw the line? Lorne; Merl; Doc (the
lizard guy from 'Forever' and 'The Gift')? Sure, Doc is evil, but you
don't find out until the end. Is he evil like the Judge, or evil like
Ethan Rayne?), but I suppose this could be solved (They would *all*
become human? They would be sent to various demon-y dimensions (poor
Lorne)? The spell would only affect soulless demons? They would remain,
but new demons would no longer be able to enter our world (so new
vampires wouldn't be raised, for instance)?) or just conveniently
forgotten.
Anyway, it's never going to happen. It sets a definite stops to any
films, spin-offs or further seasons of 'Angel', which even if Joss
wanted to do I'm not sure Fox would allow.
Vartan Narinian
>
>You'll find elsewhere on the net all kinds of analysis of Buffy's heroic
>sacrifice (e.g. http://ivyweb.com/btvs/fictionary/essays/010804A_DED.htm ),
>so I'll just say I love seeing her as a noble, messianic,
>selfless hero. In retrospect, I wish they'd finished the series here.
Selfless hero, or the easy way out?
I haven't read any analysis yet, but if Buffy got to live, she would have
had to continue doing her duty -- saving the world and sacrificing people
and things she loved in the process. This would have had to continue until
she died. A heavy burden.
We did see Buffy was getting tired of dealing death to all things evil.
She was ready to pack it in anyway. If she had killed Dawn and lived with
the consequences, her life would have been much more difficult, but
ultimately useful for the rest of the world. Instead, she offers herself
to the portal. Cop-out of what?
I'll go read the essays now ...
--
Vartan
Phil Turner
<snip>
Plus it conflicts with Fray.
--
Remove any bits of tatt after the at in my address to reply
David Chapman
news:eo4l8.988$uV2.9...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >>Which could lead to a final, final ending of Buffy arranging the
> >>cancellation of both sides of the spell, Angel coincidentally turning
human
> >>as a result of his own work, and both settling down to a normal,
demon-free,
> >>life in suburbia. Blerch.
> >Anyway, it's never going to happen. It sets a definite stops to any
> >films, spin-offs or further seasons of 'Angel', which even if Joss
> >wanted to do I'm not sure Fox would allow.
>
> Plus it conflicts with Fray.
Since when? According to the comic, Melaka Fray is the first
Slayer to be called since the early 21st century. As Slayers are
called immediately after their predecessor dies, that means
something interrupted the chain.
--
"Do you just keep your newbies locked up in cages all alone?"
"Of course! That's what pets are for!"
Debra
>"S Donohue" <sgdo...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>You'll find elsewhere on the net all kinds of analysis of Buffy's heroic
>>sacrifice (e.g. http://ivyweb.com/btvs/fictionary/essays/010804A_DED.htm ),
>>so I'll just say I love seeing her as a noble, messianic,
>>selfless hero. In retrospect, I wish they'd finished the series here.
>
>Selfless hero, or the easy way out?
Selfless hero whose gift is death, a gift she gives to Dawn because
of her love for her.
>I haven't read any analysis yet, but if Buffy got to live, she would have
>had to continue doing her duty -- saving the world and sacrificing people
>and things she loved in the process. This would have had to continue until
>she died. A heavy burden.
In what circumstances would you allow her to die? She dies here
to save her sister and manages to save the world at the same time.
The alternative is that she dies like most slayers, by a lucky strike
from a vampire, saving some strangers. That's more heroic why?
>We did see Buffy was getting tired of dealing death to all things evil.
>She was ready to pack it in anyway. If she had killed Dawn and lived with
>the consequences, her life would have been much more difficult, but
>ultimately useful for the rest of the world. Instead, she offers herself
>to the portal. Cop-out of what?
The Slayer is replaceable. Dawn isn't.
Debra
~
Upon a nation so responsive to chivalry, valour,
and prestige the genius of the English leader
exercised an abnormal fascination.
Cally
>
> The Slayer is replaceable. Dawn isn't.
While I do agree with you I have to point out that Buffy is
not, strictly speaking, The Slayer any more - Faith is. And
Faith is in jail and therefore unable to do her duty which
leaves Buffy who will not be replaced upon her death, so
while The Slayer is replacable, Buffy is not.
Cally
Debra
But if Buffy is not the Slayer any more then she doesn't have
the duty, does she? Certainly not to sacrifice her sister once
she believes (rightly albeit not necessarily credibly in many
people's minds) that she can die in her place.
We already know that the WC have wetworks squads so if the
need was there, the WC could arrange the escape, or more
likely the murder, of Faith to activate the next Slayer.
Andrew Hogg
"David Chapman" <evil...@madasafish.com> wrote in message
news:u9a3is2...@corp.supernews.com...
was made because there were demons. Plus...
<spoiler space? Better safe than sorry.>
I
'
m
l
e
a
v
i
n
g
o
n
a
j
e
t
p
l
a
n
e
d
o
n
't
k
n
o
w
w
h
e
n
I
'
l
l
b
e
b
a
c
k
a
g
a
i
n
The panel that shows a human hand desperately reaching out of closing portal
swamped bt demons does not bode well.
--
Andrew Hogg
Vartan Narinian
>
>In what circumstances would you allow her to die? She dies here
>to save her sister and manages to save the world at the same time.
>The alternative is that she dies like most slayers, by a lucky strike
>from a vampire, saving some strangers. That's more heroic why?
I didn't say that was more heroic, but it might just have been the more
difficult choice. To live to fight another day and save a few more people,
not to mention the whole world. A lot.
The subject of the good of the few versus the good of the many was
discussed at length in another thread. Such decisions are made every day,
by much lowlier people (i.e. the politicians). I refuse the idea that the
Slayer cannot make this decision. The Slayer should, and does (used to),
make life or death decisions every day.
--
Vartan
Joxer
wrote:
I thought she did - it may not have been the choice you wanted her to
make, but that's life (and death...)
--
That's the trouble with this newsgroup -
too many people, not enough penguins...