O to play 5 5
Don Banks
___________________________________________________
| | | |Eks: kali 99
|12 11 10 9 8 7 | | 6 5 4 3 2 1 |
| O X | | X O X X X O |
| O X | | X O X X X |
| | | O X X |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |HOME 64 -- 1 pt match
| | | O |
| | | O | .-----. .-----.
| | | O | |o o| |o o|
| X O | | O O | | o | | o |
| X O | | O O X | |o o| |o o|
|13 14 15 16 17 18 | |19 20 21 22 23 24 | `-----' `-----'
|_______________________|___|_______________________|Ohs: dbanks 172
I don't want to leave the five point...I also don't want
to abandon the outfield. Opinions ?
12-17,12-17,19-24,19-24 ?
5-20,19-24 ?
5-10,5-10,12-17,12-17 ?
5-15,5-15 ?
Gary Wong
I'm very new at this sort of thing, so don't trust anything I have to say.
But if I were you I'd move 5/15, 12/17, 19/24.
Reasoning: Your chances in a running game are hopeless. You have to
aim for a back game to give yourself a shot at winning -- given that it's
a 1 point match, you don't care if you lose a gammon. The chances of
winning a back game on X's 5 point are remote, but if you're lucky
enough to get another of your blots hit and enter on the ace point,
you could pull it off. Therefore you want to:
- leave plenty of blots in front of X's men and hope to have one hit so you
can make X's ace point first (in particular, hit X's blot on your 4 point
loose as soon as you get the chance, and hope X is forced to hit you on
re-entry)
- avoid making your 1-3 points until the rest of your board is developed
- bring your builders around to your 8-3 points, then hit.
5/15, 5/10, 12/17 puts you in a better position to build your board, but
risks being blitzed. 5/20, 12/17 is a bit safer but does nothing to force
X to hit you. Therefore I'd pick 5/15, 12/17, 19/24 (the blot on your ace
point will come in handy if you can hit next turn, because you want to be
hit back as X re-enters).
Any comments?
Cheers,
Gary (GaryW on FIBS).
--
Gary Wong, Computer Science Department, University of Auckland, New Zealand
ga...@cs.auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~gary/
marina_smith
If you don't want to leave your stated positions, why not do 5-10
10-15 15-20 19-24? Leaves you in a good position anyway. Not that I am
advocating this move, I'm not good enough to do that, I'll leave that
to the experts.
mas
dba...@gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca (Don Banks) wrote:
> ___________________________________________________
>| | | |Eks: kali 99
>|12 11 10 9 8 7 | | 6 5 4 3 2 1 |
>| O X | | X O X X X O |
>| O X | | X O X X X |
>| | | O X X |
>| | | |
>| | | |
>| |BAR| |HOME 64 -- 1 pt match
>| | | O |
>| | | O | .-----. .-----.
>| | | O | |o o| |o o|
>| X O | | O O | | o | | o |
>| X O | | O O X | |o o| |o o|
>|13 14 15 16 17 18 | |19 20 21 22 23 24 | `-----' `-----'
>|_______________________|___|_______________________|Ohs: dbanks 172
>
>
>I don't want to leave the five point...I also don't want
>to abandon the outfield. Opinions ?
>
>12-17,12-17,19-24,19-24 ?
>5-20,19-24 ?
>5-10,5-10,12-17,12-17 ?
>5-15,5-15 ?
--
Marina Smith - Reading U.K, to mail me remove XX from address
Phill Skelton
Gary Wong wrote:
>
> dba...@gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca (Don Banks) writes:
> > ___________________________________________________
> > | | | |Eks: kali 99
> > |12 11 10 9 8 7 | | 6 5 4 3 2 1 |
> > | O X | | X O X X X O |
> > | O X | | X O X X X |
> > | | | O X X |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | O |.-----. .-----.
> > | | | O ||o o| |o o|
> > | X O | | O O || o | | o |
> > | X O | | O O X ||o o| |o o|
> > |13 14 15 16 17 18 | |19 20 21 22 23 24 |`-----' `-----'
> > |_______________________|___|_______________________|Ohs: dbanks 172
> >
> >
> > I don't want to leave the five point...I also don't want
> > to abandon the outfield. Opinions ?
> >
> > 12-17,12-17,19-24,19-24 ?
> > 5-20,19-24 ?
> > 5-10,5-10,12-17,12-17 ?
> > 5-15,5-15 ?
>
> say. But if I were you I'd move 5/15, 12/17, 19/24.
He's right - don't trust what he says.
>
> Reasoning: Your chances in a running game are hopeless. You have to
> aim for a back game to give yourself a shot at winning
If those were the only two options I might agree, but they're not.
Yes, O needs to hit to win the game, but that isn't going to be done
by strewing blots around the place. X will be bearing off by the time
you get them all back on the board again.
To quote from a recent article: 'The best way to win a back game is
to make sure that it is your opponent who is playing it.' - you
lose them far more often than you win them unless you really know what
you are doing.
And as Gary noted, a 51 backgame is not good. Bloody awful in fact.
It seems to me that hanging on to the 12 and 5 points is going to
give you more shots sooner and at less risk.
Phill
Phill Skelton
Don Banks wrote:
>
> ___________________________________________________
> | | | |Eks: kali 99
> |12 11 10 9 8 7 | | 6 5 4 3 2 1 |
> | O X | | X O X X X O |
> | O X | | X O X X X |
> | | | O X X |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| | 1 pt match
> | | | O |
> | | | O | .-----. .-----.
> | | | O | |o o| |o o|
> | X O | | O O | | o | | o |
> | X O | | O O X | |o o| |o o|
> |13 14 15 16 17 18 | |19 20 21 22 23 24 | `-----' `-----'
> |_______________________|___|_______________________|Ohs: dbanks 172
>
> I don't want to leave the five point...I also don't want
> to abandon the outfield. Opinions ?
>
> 12-17,12-17,19-24,19-24 ?
> 5-20,19-24 ?
> 5-10,5-10,12-17,12-17 ?
> 5-15,5-15 ?
It seems to me that flexibility is important here. X doesn't have much,
and may be forced to make some ugly moves soon or leave some blots.
O's concern is not to get into the same position and be forced to leave
a blot first, which would let X of the hook.
So my vote is for 5-20 19-24.
12-17 (2) 19-24 (2) Takes the pressure off X who can then move from his
13 point only leaving indirect shots. Also O has a lot of stripped
points that he is going to have to break soon.
5-1(2) 12-17(2) is suicidal. O is leaving 2 blots and X has 10 rolls
that allow him to put O on the bar at no risk to himself and a further
16 rolls that put one or both men on the bar while leaving a return
shot. Given X's strong board and O's weak one, this is the sort of fight
X is looking for. He'll probably win it.
Likewise for 5-15 (2)
So 5-20 19-24 it is, since I can't think of any better moves.
Phill
Brian Sheppard
Gary Wong <ga...@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in article
<ieywwm8...@cs20.cs.auckland.ac.nz>...
> dba...@gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca (Don Banks) writes:
> > ___________________________________________________
> > | | | |Eks: kali 99
> > |12 11 10 9 8 7 | | 6 5 4 3 2 1 |
> > | O X | | X O X X X O |
> > | O X | | X O X X X |
> > | | | O X X |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
match
> > | | | O |
> > | | | O | .-----.
-----.
> > | | | O | |o o| |o
o|
> > | X O | | O O | | o | | o
|
> > | X O | | O O X | |o o| |o
o|
> > |13 14 15 16 17 18 | |19 20 21 22 23 24 | `-----'
`-----'
> > |_______________________|___|_______________________|Ohs: dbanks 172
> >
> >
> > I don't want to leave the five point...I also don't want
> > to abandon the outfield. Opinions ?
> >
> > 12-17,12-17,19-24,19-24 ?
> > 5-20,19-24 ?
> > 5-10,5-10,12-17,12-17 ?
> > 5-15,5-15 ?
>
say.
> But if I were you I'd move 5/15, 12/17, 19/24.
This move is really terrible. It is going all-out to lose a gammon.
This move basically hopes for the following sequence:
- X hits the outfield blots
- O rolls an ace to establish another anchor
- X leaves a shot against the ace-five backgame
- O hits the shot
- O builds a prime
- O wins the game afterwards
This is a pretty long sequence, and it is very easy to counter.
For instance, suppose that X attacks O on the ace point next turn.
Or X hits so many men in the outfield that O cannot enter before
X clears his six point?
This type of play is called the suicide play, and in this case it is
a very apt description. High holding games do not need fantastic timing.
Use this play only when you have a deep backgame AND your timing is
in jeopardy AND a few hits can correct it AND if you are not hit then
you gain forward chances AND you are not in danger of staying on the
bar until the opponent passes your anchors AND maybe a few other
conditions as well.
Brian