What makes someone li
an15...@anon.penet.fi
In article <3foae7$8...@sundog.tiac.net>, jwa...@max.tiac.net (John
Warren) writes:
> Matthew Klockow (spa...@earth.execpc.com) wrote:
> : What makes one intrested/like S&M?
> Many, many theories exist.
> Few are palatable and many are downright insulting.
I made a joke to a vanilla friend (female) who doesn't know I'm in the
scene. All she could say was, "those people are sick. They must have
had abusive childhoods or something." All I could think was, "you're
the most sex-negative person I've seen since Phyllis Schlafly, and
*you're* calling *me* sick?" I said nothing. I think this woman is
soon going to earn the title of "ex-friend," for a variety of reasons.
So, apparently the common theory is that we were abused as children.
I was. So was my SO. We're both bottoms. Informal survey: how many
asb'ers consider themselves to have had abusive childhoods? I know
the old saw about BDSM'ers having had abusive upbringings is a canard,
but I'm just curious about statistics anyway.
> For me, I don't give a damn about the WHY. I'm concentrating on HOW ...
> to do it great.
You and me both! These past few months have contained many firsts for
me--first munch, first playparty, first scene. It's been educational,
to say the least!
Peace,
N. Ominous.
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Xiphias Gladius
>So, apparently the common theory is that we were abused as children.
>I was. So was my SO. We're both bottoms. Informal survey: how many
>asb'ers consider themselves to have had abusive childhoods?
Not me. Ask your SO about my folks sometime -- she's met 'em.
My upbringing was about as idylic as you can get without being
entirely boring.
So, I know that's not the *only* reason. I wasn't, some of my
playpartners weren't, some of my playpartners were. The percentage of
abused playpartners *is* fairly high, but, since I don't have any
baseline knowlege about percentage of abuse in the mainstream
population, I don't know if it's higher than normal.
- Ian
Alex Martelli
...
>I was. So was my SO. We're both bottoms. Informal survey: how many
>asb'ers consider themselves to have had abusive childhoods? I know
>the old saw about BDSM'ers having had abusive upbringings is a canard,
>but I'm just curious about statistics anyway.
I wasn't abused, but I did suffer serious, painful illnesses in
childhood -- the connection between _that_ and BDSM is another
theory I've heard mentioned (I'm pretty sure that in _my_ own
personal case there IS a strong connection).
Alex
--
____ Alex Martelli, Bologna, Italia -- mailbox permanently overfull!
\SM/___
\/\bi/ Mutual Forgiveness of each Vice,
\/ Such are the Gates of Paradise.
Carissima
> So, apparently the common theory is that we were abused as children.
> I was. So was my SO. We're both bottoms. Informal survey: how many
> asb'ers consider themselves to have had abusive childhoods? I know
> the old saw about BDSM'ers having had abusive upbringings is a canard,
> but I'm just curious about statistics anyway.
Disgustingly happy middle-class childhood here. Except for being the
only girl in the neighborhood and being a little fat girl, but teasing is
not abuse. And I'm a switch, for statistical survey :)
--
============================================================================
Carissima |"Take your baby by the hair...whisper softly 'there there there'
ca...@io.com| Take your baby by the ears...play upon her darkest fears......"
============================================================================
an15...@anon.penet.fi
In article <3ft6kj$a...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
amar...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Alex Martelli) writes:
> an15...@anon.penet.fi writes:
> >Informal survey: how many
> >asb'ers consider themselves to have had abusive childhoods?
> I wasn't abused, but I did suffer serious, painful illnesses in
> childhood -- the connection between _that_ and BDSM is another
> theory I've heard mentioned (I'm pretty sure that in _my_ own
> personal case there IS a strong connection).
Dunno. I was always healthy as a horse--except for the usual
childhood bout with chicken pox, and the usual assortment of colds,
although at much less frequency and severity than my schoolmates. And
I had to have a cyst removed from my bum when I was 16... a much less
complex procedure than an appendectomy, FWIW.
So that shoots that theory in the head, at least where I'm concnerned.
Peace,
N. Ominous
***************
an15...@anon.penet.fi (N. Ominous)
"More extreme forms of bondage involve homes in the suburbs, station
wagons, household food budgets, and Little League coaching activities,
and are too alarming and repulsive to discuss in print." -PJ O'Rourke
an9...@anon.penet.fi
>>What do I think causes kink? Breathing nitrogen as a child. Every
>>single person I've talked to who is in the scene has at some point in
>>their childhood breathed a mixture that is primarily nitrogen.
>LA wrote:
>And drinking milk - have you seen the milk connection yet?? It's scary. .
Eat soup made from swamp orchids. So far the corellation between eating it
and kinkiness is not observed.
The Rebel
Nyani-Iisha Martin
: gaya...@world.std.com writes:
: >So, I have to agree with concentrating on the HOW. I have enough
: >problems with overcoming the desire to cause great amounts of
: ^^^^^^^^^^
: >pain and anguish to lovely sweet women,.......
: Overcome?
: Why?
That's exactly what I thought. *smile*
: Why not just do what I do and find lovely sweet women to cause pain
: and anguish to? Heck, you're a harem guard. . . .
*giggle* *Ny holds out her wrists* I'm lovely and sweet enough, right?
Ny, back from vacation
an9...@anon.penet.fi
>I've decided to propose the following:
>
>Childhood abuse makes someone *less* likely to participate in BDSM;
>the percentage of abuse survivors in the scene is *lower* than in the
That's kind of obvious conclusion since people whith fewer "barriers
in mind" tend to be more explorative in such intimate area as sex.
Abuse makes awful things to people, and institutional mental abuse (aka
brainwashing) is particularly dangerous in this case.
Anyway, that leads to another interesting (both theoretically and
practically :-) question -- what people who like BDSM have in common,
and how to recognize it.
The Rebel
wi...@wizvax.com
Ian wrote:
>What do I think causes kink? Breathing nitrogen as a child. Every
>single person I've talked to who is in the scene has at some point in
>their childhood breathed a mixture that is primarily nitrogen.
And lant...@aol.com (L Antoniou) wrote:
> And drinking milk - have you seen the milk connection yet?? It's scary. .
Nope. My bets on braces. We all had shitty overbites.
Ok, maybe only folks into bondage.
Well, probably mashochists, too.
=====================================================================
Equus, Ugly Headgear Survivor | "Looking for puns --
Property of Mistress K. | in all the wrong places."
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sean
I wasn't in the slightest. Now I like having someone who punishes (a couple "normals" (sorry in advance, to anyone who takes offense at that label, but I like it and know I am not one. sorry.) who are close friends familiar with my sitch. call it abuse: I don't) for getting out of line as she feel the line should be drawn. I also have no safeword and have had attempts to chill a scene ignored or laughed at by my SO: right now, that's ok with me. Sometimes she gets pissed and I pay.
So, though I don't believe causes for such things as our kink, or what causes us to be in our current entire life situation are so easily pinned to one thing, situation or reason like parental abuse or lack thereof, one who does believe in such karmic simplicity, and in their framework I couldn't disagree with them, could base the cause of my s'ness and my need for an SO with the proper D'ness on my lack of parental abuse! (would a Freudian like them apples?)
I really feel that the causes of kink, or of any life situation, are much more complex. To paraphrase RJ on some other thread current in asb: it is not because I am an S or D or an M or the other S or hom or het or etc, it is because I am the sum of all the experiences I have ever had. I am me. (That just happens to make me pretty S right now.)
So, an15...@anon.penet.fi, do I fit a category on your informal survey? If yes, please let me know the name of it so I'll know what to call myself! I always like getting new labels.
thx
sean
Elisabeth Anne Riba
>I'd be curious how many people, even vanilla varieties, would say they
>were not abused as children, whether physical or emotional? Most people
>I know, of all bents and no bents were...
I find this line of reasoning to be rather insidious.
When in college and first coming to terms with being into BDSM and all
that potentially would entail, there was a period of time where I was
certain that I must have been sexually abused and was repressing it.
I mean, here I was - preorgasmic, and all my sexual fantasies involved
me being tied down or forced into it (read submissive) I must not
like sex to want it like this' it's obvious I've been abused.
I got over these feelings, in part because I cannot imagine any time
that this would've happened to me. My parents were wonderful people;
I can't imagine anyone in my family doing this, and the Montessori
pre-school was run by a convent and was very well respected.
I'll admit--I was very unpopular in high school, nearly to being a
joke/pariah--but that was years after BDSM began playing a major role
in my fantasies.
Now I'm not denying that SOME people into BDSM were abused, but
I don't believe generalizations like this serve good purpose. Nobody
asks why people are into heterosexual sex, or why people only like
vanilla; why should it matter WHY we like what we do?
--
-------------------> Elisabeth Anne Riba * l...@netcom.com <-------------------
There's just one thing that we all crave, from the cradle to the grave:
A state of grace or state of mind, a point in space or point in time,
Some have it all but still have less. What we all need is happiness
Xiphias Gladius
>Xiphias Gladius (i...@cs.brandeis.edu) wrote:
>: My upbringing was about as idylic as you can get without being
>: entirely boring.
>So your parents abused you with constant abuse-deprivation scenes?
Well, that and bad puns and an infuriating way of always being right,
fair, and reasonable.
- Ian
ssch...@infinet.com
(Lisa Ehren) wrote:
> What people who like BDSM have in common is liking BDSM. I don't
> understand why anything more needs to be found. Sure, some people think
> it's neat to know, "Oh, I'm this way because of X, Y, or Z.", but I think
> that the reasons - like individual scening tastes - are too varied to make
> any practical generalizations.
In fact, Lisa, we have made that very basic mistake in our local
community. We made the (false) assumption that because a group of us liked
BDSM, we were a "leather community." What we are, in fact, are a group of
very different people with extrelemy different agendas, some good, some
not-so-good.
It has made for some rather unpleasant times.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an excellent target.
rabbit
Never inhaled nitrogen
Hated milk always.
alergic to orchid soup
abused as a child (sexually,mentally, physically)
Don't wear leather (this short fatgirl looks like a basketball in leather)
But all in all still a BDSM pain slut :)
rabbit in chain
--
rab...@metronet.com * i tried to drown my sorrows
The Leather Rose Society * but the little shits
POB 223971 * learned to swim
Dallas Tx 75222 * 1-214-289-0619 or 1-214-375-1994
jen kilmer
writes:
>(Lisa Ehren) wrote:
>> What people who like BDSM have in common is liking BDSM. I don't
>> understand why anything more needs to be found.
>In fact, Lisa, we have made that very basic mistake in our
>local community. We made the (false) assumption that because
>a group of us liked BDSM, we were a "leather community." What
>we are, in fact, are a group of very different people with
>extremely different agendas, some good, some not-so-good.
>It has made for some rather unpleasant times.
I'm probably severely mangaling this quote, but the vcr is at
home and I'm at work, so, sorry:
[I thought that because they looked like us and talked like
us and had gone through all the same kinda stuff that they
were like us. I was biased in their favor."
- Sam, in The Big Chill, by Lawrence Kasdan
--
jen kilmer je...@ix.netcom.com
"Remember how they taught you, how much of it was fear.
Refuse to hand it down. The legacy stops here." - Melissa Etheridge
Claudia Marie
>jmi...@juris.com writes:
>>I'd be curious how many people, even vanilla varieties, would say they
>>were not abused as children, whether physical or emotional? Most people
>>I know, of all bents and no bents were...
>I find this line of reasoning to be rather insidious.
>When in college and first coming to terms with being into BDSM and all
>that potentially would entail, there was a period of time where I was
>certain that I must have been sexually abused and was repressing it.
>I mean, here I was - preorgasmic, and all my sexual fantasies involved
>me being tied down or forced into it (read submissive) I must not
>like sex to want it like this' it's obvious I've been abused.
Lis, why do I get the feeling that you and I could go back and forth
'Ugolizing' each other all day long? *grin*
That's exactly it. I heard *so* much about abuse and repression as
an explanation or 'excuse' for the kinds of feelings I had that I kind
of thought that for a while although I knew how absurd it was. Only
the fact that considered it absurd kept me from saying anything to any
one. My mother would have been--well, not glad to hear it, but because
of situations in my family she would have had a prime candidate for
abuser all picked out for me. But it just isn't so.
I was a very happy, well-adjusted child right up until about age 10,
when we moved and I got rather shy at the prospect of making new friends
(nothing *not* well-adjusted about that, actually). And when I was
a wee little thing, I watched Doctor Who avidly and got a huge vicarious
thrill out of the situations of the captive heroines... yeah, there was
bondage there, but there was the arch-villain, the Master, who would
hypnotize these women and... well. *grin*
All of that at a time when I'm as certain as I can be of anything in my
personal history that I had not been abused by anyone's definitions.
You *could* call some later stuff emotional abuse but I choose not to.
>I'll admit--I was very unpopular in high school, nearly to being a
>joke/pariah--but that was years after BDSM began playing a major role
>in my fantasies.
Ditto and ditto. I put myself to sleep each night for about a decade with
hypnosis fantasies, before I ever started to feel like a square peg in
a round hole.
>Now I'm not denying that SOME people into BDSM were abused, but
>I don't believe generalizations like this serve good purpose. Nobody
>asks why people are into heterosexual sex, or why people only like
>vanilla; why should it matter WHY we like what we do?
Well, people love to find correlations. I don't think it matters in a
moral sense (if it's a way of dealing with abuse does that mean you should
use other methods instead? no), but it's an intriguing question, IMO.
Claudia (Sea-Marie)
--
"I didn't realize how much fun I had until I started
reading all the posts about me." -- davo
Shemah Monir
XG>f...@harvee.billerica.ma.us (Fnord Prefect Fnord) writes:
XG>>Xiphias Gladius (i...@cs.brandeis.edu) wrote:
XG>>: My upbringing was about as idylic as you can get without being
XG>>: entirely boring.
XG>>So your parents abused you with constant abuse-deprivation scenes?
XG>Well, that and bad puns and an infuriating way of always being right,
XG>fair, and reasonable.
Oh, ugh!!! the ultimate in non-con :( :(
Shemah
*giggle*
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ My other car is a besom
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: shemah...@hedonism.com (Shemah Monir)
Hedonism BBS / Long Beach, CA, USA / 310.631.7697
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xiphias Gladius
>Equus here...
>Nope. My bets on braces. We all had shitty overbites.
Ha. Not me. Not only did I never have braces, (although I did have
an optional retainer, which I opted out of), I won't need my wisdom
teeth out. In fact, I've got room in my mouth for an entire four
teeth AFTER the wisdom teeth . . . that's why my feet fit in there so
well.
- Ian
Babalon
LA | When I was in the Girl Scouts, most of my friends confided to each
| other that they had been abused - ohysically and sometimes
| sexually, at home. I concluded that joining the Girl Scouts had
| something to do with abuse.
|
| <and other examples deleted for bandwidth...>
this is one of the best posts i've seen here of paradigm-breaking. if
abuse can cause such a fundamental change in someone's self-identity,
why need it be limited to sexuality?!
i ran into this concept first at a Chomsky lecture where he talked about
how the media has a wonderful way of reinforcing the status quo by how
it frames the terms of the debate. look at the recent debate in the US
over health care - it ended up being a debate over health *insurance*,
rather than over health *care*, framing the debate around an assumption
that we just need to fix the way we provide insurance, dismissing the
possibility of a fundamental change in how we view health care in our
society. we see this everywhere in our society, when we get into the
anti-pornography debate, when we get into pretty much any debate
regarding sexuality, when we get into any discussion that could in some
way challenge the status quo ideology.
i feel that what we end up doing here is implicitly accepting the status
quo ideology, by allowing the discussion to be limited to a debate over
the cause of our "abnormal" orientation. well, hey folks, what is the
cause of "normal" sexual orientation!?! *is* there such a thing? an
argument could be made that *we* are the sane ones and that those who
*aren't* into bdsm are repressed and deluded and maybe we should be
looking for the causes of that! (yes i know that "normal" and "sane" are
not identical terms - but they do carry connotations of being
equivalent. so sue me.<g>)
LA | SM?
| I've *always* been into SM. Way before any adult ever raised a
| hand to me.
i've been into bdsm as long as i can remember. before kindergarten,
before any kind of "abuse" (mine was incest - maternal grandfather...),
some of my earliest memories involve fantasies of submission, slavery,
whipping, and such. i used to sleep on the very edge of my bed or the
bottom of it, while i fantasized about my master/owner/lord using the
rest of the bed, which of course was his right. (yes, i was very het in
thinking <g>) a little older and a bit of catholic ccd, and i was
fantasizing about taking the scourgings for jesus (never got into being
crucified though...) none of these were overtly sexual, but they were
deeply felt and intensely craved.
LA | I've concluded that there is a lot of abuse of children in our
| society. And it sometimes gets talked about in groups where peers
| can share these secrets.
yep, a lot of children are abused. our society in many ways subtly
promotes this abuse (not in all cases but...) [for example, it was
amazing how much i had to look in order to find actual *alternatives* to
spanking when my baby was born. unfortunately, most of the discussion
had polarized into spanking is good vs spanking is bad, and supporting
arguments. i wasn't looking for a debate, i was looking for alternative
methods! what *else* can be done in order to provide structure and
discipline and teach the child about right and wrong that doesn't
involve spanking or other corporal punishment. i finally found some
books that presented alternatives such as natural and logical
consequences, but it was a search.]
maybe we should start analysing those poor deluded folks who've been
abused and subsequently: found god/became monogamous/are
workaholics/engage in vanilla sex/drive foreign-made cars/whatever...
we could probably make just as good a case for these "effects" of abuse
as we could for those who are into bdsm.
i do not, of course, mean to accuse anyone here of deliberately doing
this "either/or status quo" framing of the debate in these terms.
(except for JJ, who's consciously being a <expletive deleted>)
unfortunately, we've pretty much all been socialized over our lives to
think this way and to not even recognize that we're doing it. thanks
laura, for pointing it out.
hope this wasn't too incoherent. i haven't finished my first cup of
coffee yet...
*babalon*
**please send email to: an16...@anon.penet.fi** i hope...
---
# Babalon # Coffee - the pharmacological basis of consciousness.
---
# JABBER v1.2 #
The Rebel
>What a perceptive question! What I've noticed over the last fifteen years or so
>is that folks in the scene (myself included) seem to crave intensity ... lives and
>relationships have to be harder, faster, deeper, more real and more satisfying.
>We disdain settling for less .. the vanilla world need not apply.
That is certainly matches with my perception of things -- now,
intensity is a quality which shows not only in private life.
Hmmmm... too simple to be true.
The Rebel (certainly an "intensive" person himself)
The Rebel
>What people who like BDSM have in common is liking BDSM. I don't
>understand why anything more needs to be found.
Lisa, tautology is never interesting. A cat is a cat, but she also
has whiskers, and tail, and paws, and likes to purr.
>Sure, some people think
>it's neat to know, "Oh, I'm this way because of X, Y, or Z.", but I think
>that the reasons - like individual scening tastes - are too varied to make
>any practical generalizations.
Hm. "Because" is a very dangerous thing when applied to psychology.
That science is like "X shows often when there are conditions Y and Z",
and there's no way of telling if X is a cause or result.
Some very broad generalizations are very useful in day-to-day life,
like "people who like to read are much more likely to be interesting
than people who spend their time watching TV".
Elf Sternberg
>I'd be curious how many people, even vanilla varieties, would say they
>were not abused as children, whether physical or emotional? Most people
>I know, of all bents and no bents were...
"Most people?" I'll take issue with that-- more than half
the people I know, who have talked about the issue, have said that
they felt no abuse as a child. How are we defining "abuse?" I feel
that my life as a child wasn't abusive at all-- my parents were well-
meaning and tried hard, despite their very human flaws and frailties,
to put together a home.
Elf !!!
--
e...@halcyon.com Another victim of involuntary performance art.
Public key available http://www.halcyon.com/elf/elf_sternberg.html
Elisabeth Anne Riba
>l...@netcom.com (Elisabeth Anne Riba) writes:
>>When in college and first coming to terms with being into BDSM and all
>>that potentially would entail, there was a period of time where I was
>>certain that I must have been sexually abused and was repressing it.
>>like sex to want it like this' it's obvious I've been abused.
>Lis, why do I get the feeling that you and I could go back and forth
>'Ugolizing' each other all day long? *grin*
Are we allowed to do that in a public database? Anyway, if you want
to get together, we can ogle each other all you like... [What did I
say about possibly being bi?]
>I was a very happy, well-adjusted child right up until about age 10,
>when we moved and I got rather shy at the prospect of making new friends
>(nothing *not* well-adjusted about that, actually). And when I was
Sounds very familiar... We did two moves during middle school...
>a wee little thing, I watched Doctor Who avidly and got a huge vicarious
Well, I didn't discover Dr. Who until a couple years later, but I do credit
the cliffhangers with keeping me from committing suicide when highschool
got really depressing (or, at least that was the crutch/excuse my mind
came up with to keep me from taking that final step)
>thrill out of the situations of the captive heroines... yeah, there was
>bondage there, but there was the arch-villain, the Master, who would
>hypnotize these women and... well. *grin*
Me, as early as eight, the stories in my head involved a regular cast
of characters who would be captured and rendered immobile in all sorts
of interesting ways...
rabbit
: I was a very happy, well-adjusted child right up until about age 10,
: when we moved and I got rather shy at the prospect of making new friends
: (nothing *not* well-adjusted about that, actually). And when I was
: a wee little thing, I watched Doctor Who avidly and got a huge vicarious
: thrill out of the situations of the captive heroines... yeah, there was
: bondage there, but there was the arch-villain, the Master, who would
: hypnotize these women and... well. *grin*
YES, and those wonderfully bad sci-fi B movies that were on every Friday
night. My mom always thought I had horrid taste in movies when I was a
kid. Little did she know that I would wait holding my breath for the
inevitable control collars and metal wrist cuffs that were a main staple
of those movies.
: Ditto and ditto. I put myself to sleep each night for about a decade with
: hypnosis fantasies, before I ever started to feel like a square peg in
: a round hole.
I really was a loner myself, I just couldn't understand why others my age
were so interested in the silly mind games they played when I could think
of better more wickedly fun things to do, I jsut felt so much more
"aware" of things and really couldn't be bothered with the childish (in
my young opinion)things others were interested in. :
: Claudia (Sea-Marie)
: --
: "I didn't realize how much fun I had until I started
: reading all the posts about me." -- davo
rabbit in chain
Lisa Ehren
>lat...@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren) wrote:
>>What people who like BDSM have in common is liking BDSM. I don't
>>understand why anything more needs to be found.
>Lisa, tautology is never interesting. A cat is a cat, but she also
>has whiskers, and tail, and paws, and likes to purr.
Not all cats have tails - manx for example. Not all cats like to purr.
What I'm saying, why bother to find *another* thing that all people who
like BDSM have in common when there is so much diversity within the group?
>Some very broad generalizations are very useful in day-to-day life,
>like "people who like to read are much more likely to be interesting
>than people who spend their time watching TV".
Not to other people who spend their time watching TV. At least if they
both watch TV, they'll have something to talk about.
Lisa
--
Fuck the wonderbunnies. They need all the practice they can get.
Claudia Marie
>cma...@max.tiac.net (Claudia Marie) writes:
>>l...@netcom.com (Elisabeth Anne Riba) writes:
>>>I must not like sex to want it like this' it's obvious I've been abused.
>
>>Lis, why do I get the feeling that you and I could go back and forth
>>'Ugolizing' each other all day long? *grin*
>Are we allowed to do that in a public database? Anyway, if you want
>to get together, we can ogle each other all you like... [What did I
>say about possibly being bi?]
Ooooh! *checks when the next BurgerMunch is--or is that too public too?*
>>a wee little thing, I watched Doctor Who avidly and got a huge vicarious
>Well, I didn't discover Dr. Who until a couple years later, but I do credit
>the cliffhangers with keeping me from committing suicide when highschool
>got really depressing (or, at least that was the crutch/excuse my mind
>came up with to keep me from taking that final step)
Yow. I was never quite to that point. Or, at least, suicide never seemed
to be a solution, to me. Never have understood that.
>>thrill out of the situations of the captive heroines... yeah, there was
>>bondage there, but there was the arch-villain, the Master, who would
>>hypnotize these women and... well. *grin*
>Me, as early as eight, the stories in my head involved a regular cast
>of characters who would be captured and rendered immobile in all sorts
>of interesting ways...
And was it only years later that you went beyond the captivity/control
to what would be *done* to the victims, or was I just way too innocent?
jmi...@juris.com
My point about most people being abused was merely a comment....it had
no point to make other than to inquire...
--
<<<juris.com>>> for the Insurance and Legal Communities
Fnord Prefect Fnord
The Rebel (an9...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: lat...@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren) wrote:
: >What people who like BDSM have in common is liking BDSM. I don't
: >understand why anything more needs to be found.
: Lisa, tautology is never interesting. A cat is a cat, but she also
: has whiskers, and tail, and paws, and likes to purr.
Unless she's a Manx, and then she might not have a tail.
Babalon
R | Anyway, that leads to another interesting (both theoretically and
| practically :-) question -- what people who like BDSM have in
| common, and how to recognize it.
well, darlin' that's an *easy* one...
we all like being tied up or tying up others.
well, some of us anyway.
and, we all like being dominated or dominating others.
well, some of us anyway.
and, we all like giving or receiving pain.
well, some of us anyway.
and we all love the gor books, especially Houseplants of Gor.
well, some of us anyway...
and, of course, the real thing we all have in common -
we're all *crazy* about Fnord! ;)
*babalon*
**please send email to: an16...@anon.penet.fi** i hope...
---
# JABBER v1.2 #
Sara aka Perrrfect
> jmi...@juris.com wrote:
>
>
> : My point about most people being abused was merely a comment....it had
> : no point to make other than to inquire...
>
> My Domina and I have wondered the same thing. My experience is
> that I went to a BBS meeting for a small city and a large portion of the
> people there were, to my dismay, a very unbalanced, retarded looking
> abused lot. I sort of expected the people at an S&M club to be like
> that. But when I went to the S&M club, the people (generally) looked
> normal, bright, intelligent, balanced and attractive!
>
What small city? Those of us who live in small cities and who practise D&M
don't think of ourselves as unbalanced or retarded at all.
I believe a SERIOUS apology is needed here. This is a truly offensive post
to me, at least.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
Xiphias Gladius
>an9...@anon.penet.fi aka The Rebel asks:
>R | Anyway, that leads to another interesting (both theoretically and
> | practically :-) question -- what people who like BDSM have in
> | common, and how to recognize it.
>and, of course, the real thing we all have in common -
>we're all *crazy* about Fnord! ;)
Well, yeah, but vanillas are crazy about Fnord, too. . .
- Ian
Lord Of The Pit Band
>Well, yeah, but vanillas are crazy about Fnord, too. . .
>
> - Ian
We certainly are.
--Jess
Jessica Raine | st92...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
"As leaf subsides to leaf, so Eden sank to grief...so way leads on to way...
nothing gold can stay."
--Robert Frost
jac...@palace.com
II>Bab...@mmbbs.com (Babalon) writes:
II>>an9...@anon.penet.fi aka The Rebel asks:
II>>R | Anyway, that leads to another interesting (both theoretically and
II>> | practically :-) question -- what people who like BDSM have in
II>> | common, and how to recognize it.
II>>and, of course, the real thing we all have in common -
II>>we're all *crazy* about Fnord! ;)
II>Well, yeah, but vanillas are crazy about Fnord, too. . .
Are they? I thought craziness about Fnord was the defining factor that
made one non-vanilla in the first place.
And since everyone is crazy about him, I guess there's no vanilla's in
the world after all.
Buncha closet cases.
__________________________________________________________________
Jackie Patti Jac...@palace.com
Keyport, NJ
Chemical Analysis:
59.349301% dyke
33.397462% sadist
7.253237% undefined (experiments continue...)
__________________________________________________________________
--
The English Palace "Where Fantasy Beckons...And Dreams Become Reality"
America's Premiere B&D/S&M BBS (908)739-1755 80 lines, 13.5 Gigs on-line,
65,000+ Files, Chat, Forums. >>> FULL INTERNET CONNECTIVITY <<<<,
Telnet to Palace.com, or 199.171.54.2, Nationwide Local calling numbers.
Dr. Benway
> II>Bab...@mmbbs.com (Babalon) writes:
>
> II>>an9...@anon.penet.fi aka The Rebel asks:
> II>>R | Anyway, that leads to another interesting (both theoretically and
> II>> | practically :-) question -- what people who like BDSM have in
> II>> | common, and how to recognize it.
Ummm, we all have toybags!
Now, what's interesting in the case of my S.O. UltraFemme is that before me
(and she never self-identified as a sadomasochist before she met me,
although it was obvious to the mutual fiend^H^H^H^Hriend who introduced us)
she almost exclusively used various grooming items... her toybag WAS her
makeup case!
[cute Fnordiness deleted]
> Buncha closet cases.
Aww c'com now, Jackie. The world isn't all sadomasochists waiting to be
free; that's a Jacobism to be sure!
--
Dr. Benway
m3...@halcyon.com