Tired of All this Jesus Nonsense
Mr. Stumper
CCarnan <cca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990405000912...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> Easter is usually the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm so
tired
> of Christianity being stuffed down my throat at every turn. I moved from
the
> bible belt to get away from it. But yet Easter rolls around. I still
don't
> understand how people can choose to believe in a non existant figure.
That he
> rose from the grave. The only thing Jesus maybe did, is die, and yes he
stayed
> dead. I wonder if you christians will ever come to your senses that there
is
> no higher being that used to walk the earth.
>
> jesus doen't influence your life, you do, get it straight and live your
own
> life.
>
> CC
I take it you are an atheist???
Why are you tired of it... Because it condems your actions??????????
All people need God ... If we dont have God who is to say what is right
and what is wrong?
CCarnan
CCarnan
TELL YOU WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG. YOU CAN'T THINK INDEPENDENTLY OF A
GROUP. You take the word of a book that was written thousands of years ago
that has been translated and translated and misconstrude all throughout time.
Such a bunch of weaklings, you don't even have self esteem. You're cowards and
you're boring reciting all that mumbo jumbo all the time.
Can't you think for yourself at all?
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7e9eh9$n38$1...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
(snip)
>>
>> jesus doen't influence your life, you do, get it straight and live your
>own
>> life.
>>
>> CC
>
>
> I take it you are an atheist???
>
> Why are you tired of it... Because it condems your actions??????????
>
>
> All people need God ... If we dont have God who is to say what is right
>and what is wrong?
Sorry to butt in here, but I don't need a god in my life. Even yours. And I
can determine right from wrong very well, thanks. If you want folk to accept
your divinely authorised morality, then you must provide proof for the
existence of your god.
And simply asserting that YOU know it's there, is not proof, I'm afraid.
Fury
Mr. Stumper
because God keeps it true...
What do you not agree with in the Ten Commandments?
CCarnan <cca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990405111230...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> See this is where you Christians are sooooo wrong. YOU NEED SOMEONE ELSE
TO
> TELL YOU WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG. YOU CAN'T THINK INDEPENDENTLY
OF A
> GROUP. You take the word of a book that was written thousands of years
ago
> that has been translated and translated and misconstrude all throughout
time.
> Such a bunch of weaklings, you don't even have self esteem. You're
cowards and
> you're boring reciting all that mumbo jumbo all the time.
>
>
> Can't you think for yourself at all?
>
CCarnan
>
I do agree with what is listed under the ten commandments but i don't need the
"Ten Commandments" to tell me what is right and what is wrong. Some of us just
choose to think for ourselves.
CC
CCarnan
need a god in my life. Even yours. And I
>can determine right from wrong very well, thanks. If you want folk to accept
>your divinely authorised morality, then you must provide proof for the
>existence of your god.
>
>And simply asserting that YOU know it's there, is not proof, I'm afraid.
>
>Fury
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Clare C in San Fran
Net Bait Term for Today: disinformation
"I fail to see how telling someone to shut up interferes with free
speech."--katia from freespeech.com
pla...@iamerica.net
<Pres...@WhiteHouse.com> wrote:
> All people need God ... If we dont have God who is to say what is right
>and what is wrong?
======================
Well, on the matter of 'abortion', we know that
your 'God's' divinely inspired Bible throughout supports,
sanctions, tolerates, and even promotes the practice
of abortion.
Several sample Biblical arguments in support of abortion
might include the following typical facts:
First, the Bible proclaims that stillbirth is preferable to an
unproductive life as in the typical "If a...soul be not filled with
good...an untimely birth is better than he..."(Eccl 6:3-4) and
"...let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of
a woman, that they may not see the sun."(Psalms 58:8). And
the despondent prophet regrets that "...the Lord slew me not
from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave,
and her womb to always be great with me."(Jeremiah 20:17).
Second, the fact that a fetus is valued only as property and
not as a person is illustrated in Exodus 21:22: "If men strive
and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her,
and yet no mischief follow; he shall be surely punished...and
he shall pay as the judges determine." Here the loss of the fetus
is represented as a simple property loss resulting in a civil fine
for the loss. (NOTE: The next verse mentioning "...life for
life..." only applies to any further mischief that then follows,
and not to the loss of the woman's "fruit".)
Third, the Bible contains the 'trial by ordeal' procedure for
determining whether a pregnant wife had been unfaithful. In
substance, the story has the suspicious husband delivering the
poor woman before the priests to engage in a test of her faith-
fulness. The priest mixes a potion, applies a curse, and requires
the woman drink the concoction. If guilty, her "...belly shall
swell and her thigh shall fall out...". If innocent, she shall be
free and "...bear seed..."(Numbers 5:11-31). In effect, her fetus
will abort if she had been unfaithful. The resultant abortion is
neither offensive nor punishable. Instead it is a divinely
authorized process to abort the fetus that resulted from the
suspected adultery. Absolutely no sanctity is placed upon
nor granted the fetus.
Fourth, the fact that God supposedly created mankind in His
own image (Genesis 2:7), and then is instrumental in permitting
almost one-third of all conceived human fetus' to be spontane-
ously aborted during the 1st. tri-mester (ref. "Williams Obstetrics");
offers a measure of the importance that He places on fetuses
before they take their first "breath-of-life".
Fifth, the Bible clearly instructs it's brotherhood to ONLY count
children over one month old as part of the "faith
community" (Numbers 3:15-50, 26:62, Leviticus 27:1-6). NEITHER
fetuses NOR new-borns are considered viable human beings.
Sixth, the Bible continually authorizes, tolerates, justifies, and
encourages the killing of un-born and newly-born children as
in "King Menehem...smote Tiphsah, and all that were within,
and the coasts thereof...and did dash their children, and rip up
their women with child.(2 kings 8:12). And revenge against
Israel's enemies includes: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and
dasheth thy little ones against the stones."(Psalms 137:9, Nahum
3:10, Ezekiel 9:5-6) and "...have no pity on the fruit of the womb;
their eye shall not spare children."(Isaiah 13:16-18) and "...their
infants shall be dashed in pieces..."(Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy
7:2, 20:16-17), and etc., etc., etc.
Seventh, under duress, people will "...eat the fruit of thine
own body, the flesh of thy sons and daughters...her young
one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her
children which she shall bear: she shall eat them..."(Deut.
28:53-57) and "...the women eat their fruit, and children...
(become)...their meat."(Lamentations 2:20 and 4:10). The
Hebrew words 'periy' and 'shilyah' translated "fruit" and
"young one" actually mean "fetus" and "after-birth". No, there
is no sacredness involved in eating one's own offspring, as
condoned and permitted (And never banned...!) by the 'holy' Bible.
Eighth, the Biblical God was ALWAYS willing and eager to
punish people by token of aborting their fetus'. Typical
examples are found in "Their fruit shalt thou destroy from
the earth..."(Psalms 21:10); and "...for the children are come
to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth."(Isaiah
37:3); and "As for Israel...Give them, O Lord...Give them a
miscarrying womb and dry breasts...they shall bear no fruit..."
(Hosiah 9:11-16); and "The Lord hast fast closed up all the
wombs of the house of Abimelech...(Genesis 20:18); and etc., etc.,
etc.
Ninth, the Bible deals with the traffic and cultic use of ancient
abortifacients like rue, hyssop, myrrh, wormwood, and gall
('hemlock'). All these can cause violent convulsions and induce
menstration in women. And in the case of Biblical willow,
date palm and pomegranate; these stimulate the production of
female sex hormones and thereby reduce fertility. This is
exactly how modern birth control pills work.
Tenth, the Bible conveys a subtle message of hatred towards
human life. Typically we read Christ's "If any man come to me,
and HATE not his father, mother, wife, brethren, and children,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.(Luke 14:26)
and "...he that HATETH his life in this world shall keep it unto life
eternal.(John 12:25) and etc., etc., etc. The Greek word miseo
translated "hate" only means "detest". "despise", "abhor", etc.
Eleventh, in the interest of un-raveling what the holy Bible SAYS
regarding abortion, consider the matter of "soul". The Hebrew '
nephresh' and the Greek 'psyche', mis-translated hundreds
of times throughout the King James Bible as "soul", correctly
translate to "breath-of-life", "living creature", and simply "breath".
It is equally applicable to humans AND animals (See Numbers
31:28 and Eccl 3:19 for typical examples). Nowhere in the
Bible can be found even a hint of the existance of a X'ian "soul" (ie,
a separate entity that inhabits physical bodies and lives on after the
body dies.....!) apart
from the living creature itself. Nor is the 'nephresh' or 'psyche'
anywhere therein claimed to be eternal or immortal. [So as not to
allow Bible believers to get too confused on this point, just recall
that the Bible claims we will ALL be bodily resurrected and THEN
'changed' as we flitter down to either God's heaven or Jesus' 'Hell'.
There's no place for a 'soul' in that formulation!]
The conclusion is therefore inescapeable that a fetus is NOT a
human being until it takes it's first "breath-of-life".
Twelveth, etc., etc., But you get the idea. One could uncover pages
and pages and pages of actual Biblical arguments in support of and
sanction for abortion.
And so, a formidable argument exists for the legalization of
abortion that would be fully in accordance with Biblical
precepts on the issue. The Bible throughout promotes,
encourages, tolerates, permits, and sanctions abortion.
Nowhere is it prohibited or banned in that holy book.
The feeble and un-Biblical argument that "Thou shalt not
kill", clearly doesn't apply to un-born children.
The Bible is quite clear that the fetus is NOT a
human person, is neither sacred nor sanctified, and can
be aborted at will as demonstrated therein.
Mr. Stumper
But what about help with personal issues like whether or not to flame
someone in here, how do you choose whether or not to tell a person that he
is wrong or to try to explain to the person that their thinking is wrong,
how do you choose?
CCarnan <cca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990405120032...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Mr. Stumper
Do you as atheist believe to leave them to settle their own differences
among themselves?
Or do you think to intervene and not let people get killed?
Is that a decision of personal choice?
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eapg1$e24$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
EVERYTHING is a decision of personal choice. The question is whether to
decide yourself, or follow someone elses thinking that they've put in a
book. In other words, to think or to evade thinking.
As regards Kosovo, I personally would intervene. Others say nay. If we
intervene, and it all goes horribly wrong, then I will have been proven to
be in error. Such is a life where there are no guarantees, I'm afraid.
Fury
Mr. Stumper
<pla...@iamerica.net> wrote in message
news:3708e7ba...@news.iamerica.net...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:36:36 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <Pres...@WhiteHouse.com> wrote:
>
> > All people need God ... If we dont have God who is to say what is right
> >and what is wrong?
> ======================
>
>
> Well, on the matter of 'abortion', we know that
> your 'God's' divinely inspired Bible throughout supports,
> sanctions, tolerates, and even promotes the practice
> of abortion.
>
> Several sample Biblical arguments in support of abortion
> might include the following typical facts:
>
> First, the Bible proclaims that stillbirth is preferable to an
> unproductive life as in the typical "If a...soul be not filled with
> good...an untimely birth is better than he..."(Eccl 6:3-4)
In Ecclesiastes the Bible tells of a man, who's sin is vanity, and God says
that it is better for that man to be met with an untimely birth than, live
in vanity...
God also says that it is better for a man to put a millstone around his
neck, and cast himself into the ocean, instead of offending a child that
believes in Him (God) ... do you also believe that God promotes suicide?
and
> "...let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of
> a woman, that they may not see the sun."(Psalms 58:8).
In Psalms, God tells His congregation that the it is better for the wicked
(people) to have been met with an untimely birth than live out their life...
He (God) says that being met with an untimely birth is a punishment, it does
not in any way say that it is good....
And
> the despondent prophet regrets that "...the Lord slew me not
> from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave,
> and her womb to always be great with me."(Jeremiah 20:17).
Again this is a reference to a punishment, God is not promoting abortoin...
>
> Second, the fact that a fetus is valued only as property and
> not as a person is illustrated in Exodus 21:22: "If men strive
> and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her,
> and yet no mischief follow; he shall be surely punished...and
> he shall pay as the judges determine." Here the loss of the fetus
> is represented as a simple property loss resulting in a civil fine
> for the loss. (NOTE: The next verse mentioning "...life for
> life..." only applies to any further mischief that then follows,
> and not to the loss of the woman's "fruit".)
What do you call mischief? And what do you call follow, is that a time
period? and how long is that time period? could that not be the same time?
>
> Third, the Bible contains the 'trial by ordeal' procedure for
> determining whether a pregnant wife had been unfaithful. In
> substance, the story has the suspicious husband delivering the
> poor woman before the priests to engage in a test of her faith-
> fulness. The priest mixes a potion, applies a curse, and requires
> the woman drink the concoction. If guilty, her "...belly shall
> swell and her thigh shall fall out...". If innocent, she shall be
> free and "...bear seed..."(Numbers 5:11-31). In effect, her fetus
> will abort if she had been unfaithful. The resultant abortion is
> neither offensive nor punishable. Instead it is a divinely
> authorized process to abort the fetus that resulted from the
> suspected adultery. Absolutely no sanctity is placed upon
> nor granted the fetus.
Yes that is true but this is punishment for the sin jealousy, and the
abortion is caused by the woman NOT God, because if the woman would confess,
then she would be spared, but because she tells no one of her sin, and
denies that she commited adultery then, by her own actions she has caused
the abortion NOT God...
>
> Fourth, the fact that God supposedly created mankind in His
> own image (Genesis 2:7), and then is instrumental in permitting
> almost one-third of all conceived human fetus' to be spontane-
> ously aborted during the 1st. tri-mester (ref. "Williams Obstetrics");
>
> offers a measure of the importance that He places on fetuses
> before they take their first "breath-of-life".
I am sorry but i have not read "Willians Obstetrics",,,, but this being a
spiritual matter, it could be likely that the sin of the woman could be the
reason ..... as stated in my last rebute...
>
> Fifth, the Bible clearly instructs it's brotherhood to ONLY count
> children over one month old as part of the "faith
> community" (Numbers 3:15-50, 26:62, Leviticus 27:1-6). NEITHER
> fetuses NOR new-borns are considered viable human beings.
God was telling Moses to count the men of the tribes, and he told them to
count just the men from one month and older, so God was putting males that
were under a month in the same category as women....
>
> Sixth, the Bible continually authorizes, tolerates, justifies, and
> encourages the killing of un-born and newly-born children as
> in "King Menehem...smote Tiphsah, and all that were within,
> and the coasts thereof...and did dash their children, and rip up
> their women with child.(2 kings 8:12). And revenge against
> Israel's enemies includes: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and
> dasheth thy little ones against the stones."(Psalms 137:9, Nahum
> 3:10, Ezekiel 9:5-6)
In Psalms david was telling of the hymns of the tribe of Babylon...
In Nahum God was speaking of a prophesy that could come to past less the
wicked tribe repent of their sins...
In Ezekeil God told a man before the event, to go through Jerusalem and put
a mark on all the people that "sigh and cry" because of the event that was
taking place... meaning anyone that felt bad for what was happening was
spared, but all who had harden their hearts were put to death...
and "...have no pity on the fruit of the womb;
> their eye shall not spare children."(Isaiah 13:16-18) and "...their
> infants shall be dashed in pieces..."(Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy
> 7:2, 20:16-17), and etc., etc., etc.
All these accounts you have just spoke of are punishments, of the Old
Testaments
>
> Seventh, under duress, people will "...eat the fruit of thine
> own body, the flesh of thy sons and daughters...her young
> one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her
> children which she shall bear: she shall eat them..."(Deut.
> 28:53-57) and "...the women eat their fruit, and children...
> (become)...their meat."(Lamentations 2:20 and 4:10). The
> Hebrew words 'periy' and 'shilyah' translated "fruit" and
> "young one" actually mean "fetus" and "after-birth". No, there
> is no sacredness involved in eating one's own offspring, as
> condoned and permitted (And never banned...!) by the 'holy' Bible.
God is talking about tribes that were not of His ... God was prophesying
about what would eventually happen to other people, that would not obey God,
He says they would first eaten all the animals then all the plants, and with
nothing left they would resort to cannibalism....
>
> Eighth, the Biblical God was ALWAYS willing and eager to
> punish people by token of aborting their fetus'. Typical
> examples are found in "Their fruit shalt thou destroy from
> the earth..."(Psalms 21:10); and "...for the children are come
> to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth."(Isaiah
> 37:3); and "As for Israel...Give them, O Lord...Give them a
> miscarrying womb and dry breasts...they shall bear no fruit..."
> (Hosiah 9:11-16); and "The Lord hast fast closed up all the
> wombs of the house of Abimelech...(Genesis 20:18); and etc., etc.,
> etc.
God takes the fruit of people for a reason.. The reason being is that there
is no memory of that person's sins, and "all" traces of the wicked are
removed that way... It is probably hard for you to phathom that is it the
people that bring it upon themselves by living in sin.....
>
> Ninth, the Bible deals with the traffic and cultic use of ancient
> abortifacients like rue, hyssop, myrrh, wormwood, and gall
> ('hemlock'). All these can cause violent convulsions and induce
> menstration in women. And in the case of Biblical willow,
> date palm and pomegranate; these stimulate the production of
> female sex hormones and thereby reduce fertility. This is
> exactly how modern birth control pills work.
Could you please give some references to it in the Bible... I dont mean not
to take your word for it but...
>
> Tenth, the Bible conveys a subtle message of hatred towards
> human life. Typically we read Christ's "If any man come to me,
> and HATE not his father, mother, wife, brethren, and children,
> and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.(Luke 14:26)
> and "...he that HATETH his life in this world shall keep it unto life
> eternal.(John 12:25) and etc., etc., etc. The Greek word miseo
> translated "hate" only means "detest". "despise", "abhor", etc.
It is clear that He is refering to how to get into heaven, "he that loveth
his life shall lose it", meaning the afterlife...
>
> Eleventh, in the interest of un-raveling what the holy Bible SAYS
> regarding abortion, consider the matter of "soul". The Hebrew '
> nephresh' and the Greek 'psyche', mis-translated hundreds
> of times throughout the King James Bible as "soul", correctly
> translate to "breath-of-life", "living creature", and simply "breath".
>
> It is equally applicable to humans AND animals (See Numbers
> 31:28 and Eccl 3:19 for typical examples). Nowhere in the
> Bible can be found even a hint of the existance of a X'ian "soul" (ie,
> a separate entity that inhabits physical bodies and lives on after the
> body dies.....!) apart
> from the living creature itself. Nor is the 'nephresh' or 'psyche'
> anywhere therein claimed to be eternal or immortal. [So as not to
> allow Bible believers to get too confused on this point, just recall
> that the Bible claims we will ALL be bodily resurrected and THEN
> 'changed' as we flitter down to either God's heaven or Jesus' 'Hell'.
> There's no place for a 'soul' in that formulation!]
> The conclusion is therefore inescapeable that a fetus is NOT a
> human being until it takes it's first "breath-of-life".
God does not reveal all that is about to came to pass in the coming days,
when all will be resurrected, so you are making an assumtion, that can be
translated many different ways, not just your abstract view... And does
this talk anything about abortion, no i think not..
>
> Twelveth, etc., etc., But you get the idea. One could uncover pages
> and pages and pages of actual Biblical arguments in support of and
> sanction for abortion.
>
> And so, a formidable argument exists for the legalization of
> abortion that would be fully in accordance with Biblical
> precepts on the issue. The Bible throughout promotes,
> encourages, tolerates, permits, and sanctions abortion.
> Nowhere is it prohibited or banned in that holy book.
> The feeble and un-Biblical argument that "Thou shalt not
> kill", clearly doesn't apply to un-born children.
>
> The Bible is quite clear that the fetus is NOT a
> human person, is neither sacred nor sanctified, and can
> be aborted at will as demonstrated therein.
>
>
To better refute your 11th point, you must understand the triune nature of
God,
body, soul, and spirit, (body being Jesus, soul being God, and spirit being
the Holy Spirit).
and man and animals alike have souls and bodies, but man unlike animals has
another part, that being the eternal part the "spirit" which will live on
after the soul and body have left...
You have made no reference to voulentary abortions, they were all
punishments and prophesies...
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eapg1$e24$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>How do you decide whether or not to intervene in Kosovo?
>
>Do you as atheist believe to leave them to settle their own differences
>among themselves?
>Or do you think to intervene and not let people get killed?
>
>Is that a decision of personal choice?
You seem NOT to get this concept, do you? The common thing atheists have
amongst them is a disbelief in a god or gods. AND THAT'S ALL!!! No book
telling them what is right and wrong. No leaders telling them to intervene
in Kosovo. NOTHING beyond a point of view about the non-existence of a god.
On any other subject, you will find opinions as varied as anywhere else. So
asking what atheists believe about Kosovo is a little stupid, if I may say.
Fury
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:7eb1ta$rrj$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
But a house divided can not stand ... therefore is atheists can not agree
then they shall fall with their doctrine...
Carl J. Cincera
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <
>
>then they shall fall with their doctrine...
>
says who? prove that a house divided can not stand.
and again, there is no atheist doctrine.
atheists do not believe in a "god" but they can believe in other things,
such as science. and there is a reason for believing in science... it makes
sense and you can prove it.
for example. we can actually observe evolution and we have done so. if i
was to observe the skies opening up and god points a finger at me and tells
me to believe everything in the bible, then I will. until then, I won't
believe in one of those fantasy creations and look at the bible as a
collection of stories with moral guidances, contradictions, historical
references, theories for ignorant masses, and contextual references and
relevances that we do not grasp anymore. because that is all I believe it
is. believe what you want but don't force your beliefs on me, as I am not
doing it to you.
--carl
Mr. Stumper
thought they could win on their own but not so....
I do not force you to read my facts, but you choose to...
Carl J. Cincera <cj...@tacoma.net> wrote in message
news:7eb875$3qo$1...@slave1.aa.net...
Carl J. Cincera
let me disprove the statement that a house divided can not stand...
I know of a family who did not get along. The parents divorced, some of the
members do not speak to each other. All are better off than they were
before. granted, it depends on your definition of what a "house" is, as
they are no longer connected, so maybe the "house" did not stand, however,
they are better off even if the "house" fell.
let's see, we have 50 states. not one. we are a house divided. we are a
multitude of cultures with many ideas that conflict. Yet we are one of the
healthiest countries in the world financially. We have not had significant
internal unrest in a generation. And of all places in the world that
refugees want to go to, it is here. so that disproves the statement.
so, 1) I have disproved that "a house divided can not stand"
and 2) shown that even if the "house" fails to stand, it is not always a bad
thing.
--carl
Mr. Stumper wrote in message
>Take Russia and Germany, they could have won the war, but instead Germany
>thought they could win on their own but not so....
>
>I do not force you to read my facts, but you choose to...
>
>
>Carl J. Cincera <cj...@tacoma.net> wrote in message
>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <
Mr. Stumper
they are united under one federal government.!.!.!.!.!
When does one state ever go off on its own to fight a war????
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eb27o$ld3$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:7eb1ta$rrj$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
>>
>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eapg1$e24$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>> >How do you decide whether or not to intervene in Kosovo?
>> >
>> >Do you as atheist believe to leave them to settle their own differences
>> >among themselves?
>> >Or do you think to intervene and not let people get killed?
>> >
>> >Is that a decision of personal choice?
>>
>>
>> You seem NOT to get this concept, do you? The common thing atheists have
>> amongst them is a disbelief in a god or gods. AND THAT'S ALL!!! No book
>> telling them what is right and wrong. No leaders telling them to
intervene
>> in Kosovo. NOTHING beyond a point of view about the non-existence of a
>god.
>> On any other subject, you will find opinions as varied as anywhere else.
>So
>> asking what atheists believe about Kosovo is a little stupid, if I may
>say.
>>
>> Fury
>>
>>
>
>then they shall fall with their doctrine...
>
>
If that belief makes you happy, fine. But atheists, by and large, represent
the forces of reason. And if it comes reason versus belief, I'll bet on
reason myself.
Fury
Fury
Mr. Stumper
Well i guess if you just cant believe in something that cant be proved, then
you shall never believe in love..
Carl J. Cincera
unified, we wouldn't need states, we would just have one single government.
even so, the people of the USA are divided. we have many groups that do not
get along. we have different cultures. in certain areas different
languages other than English prevail. we have different religions. and the
people are becoming increasingly polarized in their beliefs about certain
issues (such as this one!).
so even if we can differ about how divided the US government is, the people
certainly are divided, yet we do not fall.
go figger.
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7ebcce$djj$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>How do you figure that the states are divided? well they are not divided,
>they are united under one federal government.!.!.!.!.!
>
>When does one state ever go off on its own to fight a war????
and what is this preoccupation about war? there is a hell of a lot more to
humanity than war, yet you have brought it up on several occasions. that is
one of the main reasons Christianity will not survive, it is always warring.
if any religion survives another millenium, it will probably be one like Zen
Buddhism that is truly pacifist.
Mr. Stumper
come to terms with each other and getting laws past, that is how the US is
united,....
Mr. Stumper
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7ebec2$l0b$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>
(snip)
>
>Well i guess if you just cant believe in something that cant be proved,
then
>you shall never believe in love..
>
>
Or in the naked hatred that makes people see Jews as less than human (the
flipside of your notion). I believe in love. I do love. But I don't make
decisions based upon it, because emotions are VERY treacherous things and
the wise man doesn't allow his life to be ruled by them.
Fury
pla...@iamerica.net
<da_rag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
><pla...@iamerica.net> wrote in message
>> Ninth, the Bible deals with the traffic and cultic use of ancient
>> abortifacients like rue, hyssop, myrrh, wormwood, and gall
>> ('hemlock'). All these can cause violent convulsions and induce
>> menstration in women. And in the case of Biblical willow,
>> date palm and pomegranate; these stimulate the production of
>> female sex hormones and thereby reduce fertility. This is
>> exactly how modern birth control pills work.
>Could you please give some references to it in the Bible... I dont mean not
>to take your word for it but...
======================
The Bible does favorably mention a wide variety
of ancient folk abortifacients and contraceptives. In fact, the
Bible contains a virtual 'catalog' of abortifacients and contra-
ceptives. Many of these represented valuable trade goods.
For example, 'myrrh' (a resin made from the African Commi-
phora plant) is mentioned seventeen times in the Bible, mostly
in association with sexual intercourse. It was used and valued
as a contraceptive among other purposes. Myrrh is sometimes
thought of as a narcotic and a poison.
A novel usage of myrrh occurs in the purification
rite whereby "...every maid's turn was come to go-in-to
king Ahasuerus...so were the days of their purification
accomplished, to wit, six months with oil of myrrh, and
six months with sweet odors..."(Esther 2:12).
There are found several mentions of myrrh under
highly erotic circumstances throughout the book of Solomon.
Examples include "I rose up to open to my beloved; and my
hands dropped with myrrh, and my fingers with sweet smelling
myrrh..."(Solomon 5:5). And the harlot "...perfumed my bed
with myrrh..."(Proverbs 7:17).
A passing mention is made of Cyrene and Cyrenians
in the New Testament Bible. This area of North Africa
was famous for it's production and trade in silphion (giant
fennel), a widely regarded contraceptive and abortifacient
of ancient times.
Another abortifacient mentioned in the Bible is
"wormwood" (Artemesia Carduaceae or Absinthium)
which can cause violent convulsions and induce menstruation.
Oil of wormwood (Artemisia Absinthium), is used to
make Absinthe liquor also. It too, in large quantities, can
cause convulsions. Wormwood was also considered an
'aphrodisiac' by some.
Another abortifacient is 'hyssop' (possibly Majoram
or Caper plant). Both of these are better known as cathartics
or laxatives. Hyssop is mentioned a dozen times in the
Bible, usually as part of a ritual for cleanness , purging the
bowels, curing leprosy, etc. It is found in Leviticus chapter
fourteen, five times alone, and twice in Numbers Chapter
nineteen for similar purposes.
Willow, date palm, and pomegranate were also
considered useful for birth control. They all stimulate the
production of female sex hormones and thereby reduce
fertility. This is exactly the way modern birth control or
contraceptive pills work. Pomegranates are mentioned
31 times alone throughout the Bible; most often in conjunction
with cultic rituals.
Another abortifacient is "rue" (also known as Penny-
royal or Fleabane), a toxic member of the mint family.
Rue contains a compound similar to pilocarpine which
induces abortion. It is widely used EVEN today throughout
Latin America. In the Bible, it is only mentioned once, as
trade goods, in "...woe unto you Pharisees, for you tithe
mint and rue and all manner of herbs..."(Luke 11:42).
Another botanical product mentioned in the Bible
is "gall'. The Hebrew word 'rowsh' translated 'gall', means
'hemlock'. A deadly poison, it was also widely used as
an abortifacient. Associated with bitterness, it's Biblical
citations usually revolve around figurative usage such
as "...lest there be among you a root that bearest gall
and wormwood..."(Deuteronomy 29:18). It is also referenced
as useful for purging 'uncleanness' in "...give us water of
gall to drink because we have sinned against the Lord."(Jer 8:14).
And finally, NOWHERE does the Bible caution against
or prohibit the use of the varied abortifacients that were in
wide use during, and previous to, Biblical times.
The con-clusions to be drawn from the above
should be self-evident to the Bible-believer.
Enmenanna
"Mr. Stumper" <Pres...@WhiteHouse.com> wrote:
[snip]
> All people need God ... If we dont have God who is to say what is right
> and what is wrong?
How about "how would I feel if somebody did this to me", when contemplating
actions?
Enmenanna
- God? I'm no God. God has mercy. -
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eblds$mj5$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>So you do love,,, well, then prove your love...
>
>
It's real enough to me. And before you make the inevitable comment about how
your god is real enough to you:-
1. I don't make decisions based upon it.
2. I don't expect other people to either.
Fury
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> That book that was written thousands of years ago, is still true today,
> because God keeps it true...
You still haven't proved God exists.
>
> What do you not agree with in the Ten Commandments?
Nothing, as they were written. However, as almost every society has
developed a similar ethical code without the TC; it hardly seems to be a
proof that God sent them down from a mountain.
Chris Owens
Mr. Stumper
remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments? well if
you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be like
then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what society was
like...
Mr. Stumper
<mailto:proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3714fe11...@news.mindspring.com...
> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:20:20 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7eb9cc$2di$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Take Russia and Germany, they could have won the war, but instead Germany
> >thought they could win on their own but not so....
>
WWII
>
> >
> >I do not force you to read my facts, but you choose to...
> >
> >
> >Carl J. Cincera <cj...@tacoma.net> wrote in message
> >news:7eb875$3qo$1...@slave1.aa.net...
> >>
> >> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <
> >> >
> >> >But a house divided can not stand ... therefore is atheists can not
agree
> >> >then they shall fall with their doctrine...
> >> >
> >>
> >>
Mr. Stumper
get married???
Mr. Stumper
decisions...
Mr. Stumper
Mr. Stumper
>
> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> >decisions...
> >
> >
>
agree
> (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like on
> abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
>
> Fury
>
>
are you changing on me??
maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then maybe i
can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
Mr. Stumper
>
> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk8l$dr3$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >Well that sure as hell didnt stop Hitler...
> >
> >
>
> himself.
>
> Fury
>
>
Well if thinking for myself means making countless Jews misserable and
killing 6 million of them...
then i do not want to think for myself...
and you would rather burn in hell all by yourself, never being able to feel
love again, just so you could think for yourself, in the mean time you have
killed 6 million Jews....
Mr. Stumper
> On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:36:01 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7edk3c$db8$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><mailto:proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:3714fe11...@news.mindspring.com...
> >> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:20:20 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> >> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7eb9cc$2di$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Take Russia and Germany, they could have won the war, but instead
Germany
> >> >thought they could win on their own but not so....
> >>
> >> Which war?
> >
> >
> >WWII
>
> the war' come from? Germany and Russia had a mutual non-agression
> pact. They were never allies.
>
> You don't know history either.
Well i know that if germany had not attacked russia they could have won the
war ..
>
>
> >> >
> >> >I do not force you to read my facts, but you choose to...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Carl J. Cincera <cj...@tacoma.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:7eb875$3qo$1...@slave1.aa.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <
> >> >> >
Mr. Stumper
> On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:27:29 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7eefn4$hdg$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><mailto:proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:370bb49...@news.mindspring.com...
> >> On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:36:01 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> >> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7edk3c$db8$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><mailto:proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:3714fe11...@news.mindspring.com...
> >> >> On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:20:20 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> >> >> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in
<7eb9cc$2di$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Take Russia and Germany, they could have won the war, but instead
> >Germany
> >> >> >thought they could win on their own but not so....
> >> >>
> >> >> Which war?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >WWII
> >>
> >> Where did your statement 'Take Russia and Germany, they could have won
> >> the war' come from? Germany and Russia had a mutual non-agression
> >> pact. They were never allies.
> >>
> >> You don't know history either.
> >
> >Well i know that if germany had not attacked russia they could have won
the
> >war ..
>
Well they sure would have stood a better chance, ..
Fury
Fury
C. A. Owens
>
> We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
> .. do you
> remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments?
No. Neither do you. There are no people alive today who were also
alive 5K years ago; which is the ostensible date on this denoument.
> well if
> you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be like
> then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what society was
> like...
Basically law abiding; with laws remarkable similar to the TC. So?
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
>
> All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> decisions...
Sure they do; it just isn't a very consistent or effective one.
Chris Owens
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> >
> > Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> > >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> > >decisions...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes, I do. My own personal one. Just like everyone else. Sometimes we
> agree
> > (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like on
> > abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
> >
> > Fury
> >
> >
>
> are you changing on me??
>
> maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
Oh, you're SO funny.
>
> if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then maybe i
> can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
I have a personal doctrine in that I have a set of personal ethics that
I use. If you want to convince me of the existence of your god, you need
only provide proof.
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> Well if thinking for myself means making countless Jews misserable and
> killing 6 million of them...
As does believing in your god, as you have admitted already.
>
> then i do not want to think for myself...
Yes, I noticed.
>
> and you would rather burn in hell all by yourself, never being able to feel
> love again, just so you could think for yourself, in the mean time you have
> killed 6 million Jews....
Nice assertion. Care to back it up with some proof? No, I didn't think
so.
Fury
Mr. Stumper
C. A. Owens <cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote in message
news:370B3C33...@redsuspenders.com...
> Mr. Stumper wrote:
> >
> > We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
>
> Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
Wittan, what god gave that to you.. or is that thing between your legs
>
> > .. do you
> > remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments?
>
> No. Neither do you. There are no people alive today who were also
> alive 5K years ago; which is the ostensible date on this denoument.
So whats the guys name that discovered the fountain of youth?
>
> > well if
> > you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be like
> > then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what society
was
> > like...
>
> Basically law abiding; with laws remarkable similar to the TC. So?
>
> Chris Owens
When arguing religion we have to go back to the beginning, of which is told
to us in the Bible..
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370B53FE...@nowhere.com...> > news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > >
> > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> > > >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to
make
> > > >decisions...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I do. My own personal one. Just like everyone else. Sometimes we
> > agree
> > > (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like
on
> > > abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
> > >
> > > Fury
> > >
> > >
> >
> > are you changing on me??
> >
> > maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
>
> Oh, you're SO funny.
>
> >
> > if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then
maybe i
> > can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
>
> I have a personal doctrine in that I have a set of personal ethics that
> I use. If you want to convince me of the existence of your god, you need
> only provide proof.
>
> Fury
What i am trying to say is, who's personal doctrine is the right one, and
who's is the wrong one?
Look at what some people are capable of, like a serial killer apperently
their personal doctrine says its ok to kill..
Mr. Stumper
> Mr. Stumper wrote:
> >
> > All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> > decisions...
>
>
> Chris Owens
But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base laws
that we then follow
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370B54FB...@nowhere.com...> > news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > >
> > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> > > >Well that sure as hell didnt stop Hitler...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > But at least, in one way, he was better than you, in that he thought
for
> > > himself.
> > >
> > > Fury
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well if thinking for myself means making countless Jews misserable and
> > killing 6 million of them...
>
> As does believing in your god, as you have admitted already.
>
> >
> > then i do not want to think for myself...
>
> Yes, I noticed.
>
> >
> > and you would rather burn in hell all by yourself, never being able to
feel
> > love again, just so you could think for yourself, in the mean time you
have
> > killed 6 million Jews....
>
> Nice assertion. Care to back it up with some proof? No, I didn't think
> so.
>
> Fury
Yes i was proud of myself when i thought of it... hahaha
I am refering to Hitler ... do you think that he is sitting on the right
hand of God?
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eece8$3a8$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
>>
>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk8l$dr3$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>> >Well that sure as hell didnt stop Hitler...
>> >
>> >
>>
>> But at least, in one way, he was better than you, in that he thought for
>> himself.
>>
>> Fury
>>
>>
>
>Well if thinking for myself means making countless Jews misserable and
>killing 6 million of them...
>
We noticed. There are people out there who don't harm anyone and who don't
share a belief in your god. So I'm sorry, but your wrong.
>
>and you would rather burn in hell all by yourself, never being able to feel
>love again, just so you could think for yourself, in the mean time you have
>killed 6 million Jews....
>
>
As Patrick L. Humphrey remarked here, I think for myself and haven't managed
to kill anyone. Must be doing something wrong. Your argument, if we can
dignify it with that word, is invalid.
Fury
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eec69$23c$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...>news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
>>
>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>> >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
>> >decisions...
>> >
>> >
>>
>agree
>> (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like on
>> abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
>>
>> Fury
>>
>>
>
>
>are you changing on me??
>
>maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
Oh my, you're SO funny.
>
>if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then maybe
i
>can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
>
>
I never said I didn't. Just that it's my own personal one. And yes, you can
sway me to realise that there is a god, when you get around to providing
PROOF!
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370B54FB...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > >
> > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> <7edk8l$dr3$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> > > > >Well that sure as hell didnt stop Hitler...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > But at least, in one way, he was better than you, in that he thought
> for
> > > > himself.
> > > >
> > > > Fury
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well if thinking for myself means making countless Jews misserable and
> > > killing 6 million of them...
> >
> > As does believing in your god, as you have admitted already.
> >
> > >
> > > then i do not want to think for myself...
> >
> > Yes, I noticed.
> >
> > >
> > > and you would rather burn in hell all by yourself, never being able to
> feel
> > > love again, just so you could think for yourself, in the mean time you
> have
> > > killed 6 million Jews....
> >
> > Nice assertion. Care to back it up with some proof? No, I didn't think
> > so.
> >
> > Fury
>
> Yes i was proud of myself when i thought of it... hahaha
>
> I am refering to Hitler ... do you think that he is sitting on the right
> hand of God?
Remembering that I am an atheist, are you really asking this question of
the right person?
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370B53FE...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > >
> > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> > I have a personal doctrine in that I have a set of personal ethics that
> > I use. If you want to convince me of the existence of your god, you need
> > only provide proof.
> >
> > Fury
>
> What i am trying to say is, who's personal doctrine is the right one, and
> who's is the wrong one?
I would guess that the one that doesn't harm other people is A good one.
Good enough for me, anyway. And a lot of others too, by the looks of
things. So, in that sense, the doctrine that allows us to live side by
side in peaceful co-existence is RIGHT for us.
>
> Look at what some people are capable of, like a serial killer apperently
> their personal doctrine says its ok to kill..
Or a member of Islamic Jihad who's religious doctrine says it's okay to
blow yourself up in the middle of a crowded Israeli shopping market.
Same difference.
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> C. A. Owens <cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote in message
> news:370B3DA3...@redsuspenders.com...
> > Mr. Stumper wrote:
> > >
> > > All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> > > decisions...
> >
> > Sure they do; it just isn't a very consistent or effective one.
> >
> > Chris Owens
>
> But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base laws
> that we then follow
Ah. That WE then follow. Leaving aside exactly HOW clear biblical
doctrine is, I have no desire to follow your biblical doctrine when my
own personal one serves me just fine, thanks.
Fury
charles mielke
>Easter is usually the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm so tired
>of Christianity being stuffed down my throat at every turn. I moved from the
>bible belt to get away from it.
Ohhhh, you poor thing, - stuffed down your throat and made
you move. Boo hoo.
>jesus doen't influence your life, you do, get it straight and live your own
>life.
>CC
Thass right, CC. Do it your way and you get to make up your
own rules as you go.
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > > We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
> >
> > Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
>
> Wittan, what god gave that to you.. or is that thing between your legs
Utterly ignorant of the roots of our culture, too, I see. The Wittan
was the governing group of the teutonic tribes. No god gave it to
anyone.
>
> > > .. do you
> > > remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments?
> >
> > No. Neither do you. There are no people alive today who were also
> > alive 5K years ago; which is the ostensible date on this denoument.
>
> So whats the guys name that discovered the fountain of youth?
No one has discovered a fountain of youth. Legend has it that Ponce de
Leon [who wasn't born until the 17th century] died looking for it.
> > > well if
> > > you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be like
> > > then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what society
> was
> > > like...
> >
> > Basically law abiding; with laws remarkable similar to the TC. So?
> >
> When arguing religion we have to go back to the beginning, of which is told
> to us in the Bible..
Prove that the Bible is accurate.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > I have a personal doctrine in that I have a set of personal ethics that
> > I use. If you want to convince me of the existence of your god, you need
> > only provide proof.
> >
> What i am trying to say is, who's personal doctrine is the right one, and
> who's is the wrong one?
Maybe they are all right. However, personal doctrine and the rules by
which society runs itself can be quite different. Societies are based
on 'what works'.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > > All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> > > decisions...
> >
> > Sure they do; it just isn't a very consistent or effective one.
> >
> But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base laws
> that we then follow
Since any number of societies evolved laws without benefit of the Bible,
it is clearly not essential to the process.
Chris Owens
Mr. Stumper
<mailto:proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:371ef835...@news.mindspring.com...
> On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:20:13 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7eg0gj$7qi$1...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >C. A. Owens <cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote in message
> >news:370B3DA3...@redsuspenders.com...
> >> Mr. Stumper wrote:
> >> >
> >> > All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to
make
> >> > decisions...
> >>
> >> Sure they do; it just isn't a very consistent or effective one.
> >>
> >> Chris Owens
> >
> >But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base laws
> >that we then follow
>
> First provide proof your bible is not a work of fiction.
By the predictions that have come true and the predictions that are about to
come true...
Mr. Stumper
> On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:13:05 -0500, "Mr. Stumper"
> <da_rag...@yahoo.com> in <7eg037$6sc$1...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>> >news:370B3C33...@redsuspenders.com...
> >> Mr. Stumper wrote:
> >> >
> >> > We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
> >>
> >> Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
> >
> >Wittan, what god gave that to you.. or is that thing between your legs
> >
> >>
> >> > remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments?
> >>
> >> No. Neither do you. There are no people alive today who were also
> >> alive 5K years ago; which is the ostensible date on this denoument.
> >
> >So whats the guys name that discovered the fountain of youth?
>
> implying there are people 5k years old?
No, i just missread the post..
>
> >
> >>
> >> > well if
> >> > you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be
like
> >> > then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what
society
> >was
> >> > like...
> >>
> >> Basically law abiding; with laws remarkable similar to the TC. So?
> >>
> >> Chris Owens
> >
> >When arguing religion we have to go back to the beginning, of which is
told
> >to us in the Bible..
>
> First please provide proof you bible is not a work of fiction.
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370BEB40...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:370B54FB...@nowhere.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
I guess i am asking the wrong person, if you cant answer a simple
hypothetical question..
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370BE9E6...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:370B53FE...@nowhere.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> > <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> > > I have a personal doctrine in that I have a set of personal ethics
that
> > > I use. If you want to convince me of the existence of your god, you
need
> > > only provide proof.
> > >
> > > Fury
> >
> > What i am trying to say is, who's personal doctrine is the right one,
and
> > who's is the wrong one?
>
> I would guess that the one that doesn't harm other people is A good one.
> Good enough for me, anyway. And a lot of others too, by the looks of
> things. So, in that sense, the doctrine that allows us to live side by
> side in peaceful co-existence is RIGHT for us.
Jesus teaches that we should do unto others as we would have them to unto
us... so we agree on that point of personal doctrine..
>
>
> >
> > Look at what some people are capable of, like a serial killer apperently
> > their personal doctrine says its ok to kill..
>
> Or a member of Islamic Jihad who's religious doctrine says it's okay to
> blow yourself up in the middle of a crowded Israeli shopping market.
> Same difference.
that is why you must *choose* to follow God, and that is how you can easily
choose to follow Jesus, He saved people's lives and healed people...
>
> Fury
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370BEA9A...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > C. A. Owens <cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote in message
> > news:370B3DA3...@redsuspenders.com...
> > > Mr. Stumper wrote:
> > > >
> > > > All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to
make
> > > > decisions...
> > >
> > > Sure they do; it just isn't a very consistent or effective one.
> > >
> > > Chris Owens
> >
> > But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base
laws
> > that we then follow
>
> Ah. That WE then follow. Leaving aside exactly HOW clear biblical
> doctrine is, I have no desire to follow your biblical doctrine when my
> own personal one serves me just fine, thanks.
>
> Fury
The Bible gives us the Ten Commandments, and they are a very good source for
a personal doctrine, and also Jesus gave another commandment to do unto
other as you would have them do to you...
So the Bible Gives 11 clear rules to follow your life by..
Mr. Stumper
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > > > We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
> > >
> > > Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
> >
> > Wittan, what god gave that to you.. or is that thing between your legs
>
> was the governing group of the teutonic tribes. No god gave it to
> anyone.
Most of my knowledge history generally starts around 1492 to now
and from 0000 to 0033, that is another small focus o history..
> >
> > > > .. do you
> > > > remember what it was like before God gave us the Ten Commandments?
> > >
> > > No. Neither do you. There are no people alive today who were also
> > > alive 5K years ago; which is the ostensible date on this denoument.
> >
> > So whats the guys name that discovered the fountain of youth?
>
> No one has discovered a fountain of youth. Legend has it that Ponce de
> Leon [who wasn't born until the 17th century] died looking for it.
I missread your statement... yes he looked around florida and georgia, when
he looked in america
>
> > > > well if
> > > > you cant remember there are accounts of what this earth used to be
like
> > > > then you can look through the Old Testament for accounts of what
society
> > was
> > > > like...
> > >
> > > Basically law abiding; with laws remarkable similar to the TC. So?
> > >
> > When arguing religion we have to go back to the beginning, of which is
told
> > to us in the Bible..
>
> Prove that the Bible is accurate.
>
> Chris Owens
Prove that it is wrong, there is no other theory that even comes close to
being realistic
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> ----What Would Jesus Do?
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370BE9E6...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > >
> > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:370B53FE...@nowhere.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> > > <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >
> > > Look at what some people are capable of, like a serial killer apperently
> > > their personal doctrine says its ok to kill..
> >
> > Or a member of Islamic Jihad who's religious doctrine says it's okay to
> > blow yourself up in the middle of a crowded Israeli shopping market.
> > Same difference.
>
> that is why you must *choose* to follow God, and that is how you can easily
> choose to follow Jesus, He saved people's lives and healed people...
Why?? As has been pointed out, your god could tell people to murder one
another. And they'd do it, too. So this argument you're putting forward
that in order to avoid violence we follow your god, is invalid.
>
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> ----What Would Jesus Do?
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370BEB40...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > >
> > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:370B54FB...@nowhere.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:7ee6hg$k78$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
Why don't you just ask if Hitler was a good person or not, instead of
bringing your god into it?
Now, framed this way, I personally don't think Hitler was a good person.
Fury
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > > But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base
> laws
> > > that we then follow
> >
> > Ah. That WE then follow. Leaving aside exactly HOW clear biblical
> > doctrine is, I have no desire to follow your biblical doctrine when my
> > own personal one serves me just fine, thanks.
> >
> The Bible gives us the Ten Commandments, and they are a very good source for
> a personal doctrine, and also Jesus gave another commandment to do unto
> other as you would have them do to you...
>
> So the Bible Gives 11 clear rules to follow your life by..
But what you seem to fail to perceive is that it is not necessary to use
the TC as a basis of a system of personal ethics AND still be capable of
living a perfectly acceptable life. Far more people have taken this
course than have ever chosen to follow the Bible. I haven't noticed
rampant anarchism in countries such as Japan, for example.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > >But the Bible gives us a clear doctrine... and from that we can base laws
> > >that we then follow
> >
> > First provide proof your bible is not a work of fiction.
>
> By the predictions that have come true and the predictions that are about to
> come true...
List ten specific predictions, and conclusively demonstrate that the
event you claim they predict is the event that they predicted.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> > > > > We as a society use the Ten Commandments as a basis for laws
> > > >
> > > > Actually, no. Most of our laws are based on the Wittan.
> > >
> > > Wittan, what god gave that to you.. or is that thing between your legs
> >
> > Utterly ignorant of the roots of our culture, too, I see. The Wittan
> > was the governing group of the teutonic tribes. No god gave it to
> > anyone.
>
> Most of my knowledge history generally starts around 1492 to now
> and from 0000 to 0033, that is another small focus o history..
And a remarkably poor one from which to be making cultural
pronouncements. If you want to be able to discuss history in any
reasonable fashion, you had better learn more of it.
>
> > Prove that the Bible is accurate.
> >
> Prove that it is wrong,
I don't have to; you do. You are the one who is asserting it to be an
authoratative source, so it is incumbent on you to demonstrate that it
IS such.
Chris Owens
millerbeers
Fury wrote in message <7em56p$je4$2...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
>
>Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eec69$23c$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...>>news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
>>>
>>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>>> >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
>>> >decisions...
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>agree
>>> (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like on
>>> abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
>>>
>>> Fury
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>are you changing on me??
>>
>>maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
>
>Oh my, you're SO funny.
>
>>
>>if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then maybe
>i
>>can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
>>
>>
>
>I never said I didn't. Just that it's my own personal one. And yes, you can
>sway me to realise that there is a god, when you get around to providing
>PROOF!
>
>Fury
>
snowfall or a rainbow, or a rose, or a dogwood tree in full bloom or an
apple (I could go on) and not believe that there is a God?????
Sue
millerbeers
proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com. wrote in message
<3713c33d...@news.mindspring.com>...
>the existence of something with god-like abilities.
So you think that these things "just happened"? Do you also believe that if
thousands of monkeys were placed in front of word processors, one of them
would write a meaningful book, or even a paragraph, how about a sentence?
Sue
millerbeers
Fury wrote in message <370FE183...@nowhere.com>...
>
>How can you use that amazing organ inside your skull to identify such
>things, and come to the conclusion that there is a god?
My soul is not in my head, it is in my entire body. The fact that God
exists is taken on faith by me, just like I take it on faith that the sun is
in the sky during the daytime, even if it is cloudy and I can't see it.
Sue
>
>Fury
C. A. Owens
millerbeers wrote:
>
> >I never said I didn't. Just that it's my own personal one. And yes, you can
> >sway me to realise that there is a god, when you get around to providing
> >PROOF!
> >
> How can you look at the mountains, or a small child, or a sunset, or a new
> snowfall or a rainbow, or a rose, or a dogwood tree in full bloom or an
> apple (I could go on) and not believe that there is a God?????
You might want to examine the difference between facts and beliefs.
Chris Owens
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370D3AAD...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > ----What Would Jesus Do?
> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
> > > > <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> > >
>
apperently
> > > > their personal doctrine says its ok to kill..
> > >
> > > Or a member of Islamic Jihad who's religious doctrine says it's okay
to
> > > blow yourself up in the middle of a crowded Israeli shopping market.
> > > Same difference.
> >
> > that is why you must *choose* to follow God, and that is how you can
easily
> > choose to follow Jesus, He saved people's lives and healed people...
>
> Why?? As has been pointed out, your god could tell people to murder one
> another.
It has not been proven that God told anyone to murder, therefore you have no
proof to base your point...
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370D3BC8...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> >
> > ----What Would Jesus Do?
> >
> > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Stumper wrote in message
I didnt ask if he was a good person, a good person does not goto Heaven...
i asked if Hilter was right..
Fury
millerbeers wrote:
>
> Fury wrote in message <7em56p$je4$2...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> >
> >Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eec69$23c$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >>
> >>Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >>news:7ee6bs$k5a$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
> >>>
> >>> Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7edk79$dlq$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >>> >All must have a doctrine to live by, if not they have no basis to make
> >>> >decisions...
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I do. My own personal one. Just like everyone else. Sometimes we
> >>agree
> >>> (like on the non-existence of your god), and sometimes we don't (like on
> >>> abortion). Is that simple enough for you?
> >>>
> >>> Fury
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>are you changing on me??
> >>
> >>maybe you are evolving ......... hahahaha
> >
> >Oh my, you're SO funny.
> >
> >>
> >>if i can easily sway you to come to realize you have a doctrine then maybe
> >i
> >>can in time sway you to realize that there is a God...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I never said I didn't. Just that it's my own personal one. And yes, you can
> >sway me to realise that there is a god, when you get around to providing
> >PROOF!
> >
> >Fury
> >
> How can you look at the mountains, or a small child, or a sunset, or a new
> snowfall or a rainbow, or a rose, or a dogwood tree in full bloom or an
> apple (I could go on) and not believe that there is a God?????
>
> Sue
How can you use that amazing organ inside your skull to identify such
things, and come to the conclusion that there is a god?
Fury
El QueSabe
Vote Libertarian!
Fury
millerbeers wrote:
>
> Fury wrote in message <370FE183...@nowhere.com>...
(snip)
> >
> >How can you use that amazing organ inside your skull to identify such
> >things, and come to the conclusion that there is a god?
>
> My soul is not in my head, it is in my entire body. The fact that God
> exists is taken on faith by me, just like I take it on faith that the sun is
> in the sky during the daytime, even if it is cloudy and I can't see it.
>
As you well know, I was talking about your brain. The existence of which
I increasingly doubt.
BTW, this soul thing of yours. What colour is it? How much does it
weigh? Oh, you mean you've never seen it? No, I didn't think so either.
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:370D3BC8...@nowhere.com...
> >
> > > > > I am refering to Hitler ... do you think that he is sitting on the
> right
> > > > > hand of God?
> > > >
> > > > Remembering that I am an atheist, are you really asking this question
> of
> > > > the right person?
> > > >
> > > > Fury
> > >
> > > I guess i am asking the wrong person, if you cant answer a simple
> > > hypothetical question..
> >
> > Why don't you just ask if Hitler was a good person or not, instead of
> > bringing your god into it?
> >
> > Now, framed this way, I personally don't think Hitler was a good person.
> >
> > Fury
>
> I didnt ask if he was a good person, a good person does not goto Heaven...
Proof of the existence of Heaven?
>
> i asked if Hilter was right..
No, you asked if Hitler was sitting on the right hand of your god. But
to answer the question you've just asked, I personally didn't think he
was right.
Fury
millerbeers
proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com. wrote in message
<37142181...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:44:29 -0600, "millerbeers"
><mille...@email.msn.com> in <#PLhCP6g#GA.346@upnetnews03> wrote:
>
>>
>>proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com. wrote in message
>><3713c33d...@news.mindspring.com>...
>>>On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:02:52 -0600, "millerbeers"
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fury wrote in message <7em56p$je4$2...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
>>>>>
>>>>>Mr. Stumper wrote in message
<7eec69$23c$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>>>>>>
>>>the existence of something with god-like abilities.
>>
>>So you think that these things "just happened"? Do you also believe that
if
>>thousands of monkeys were placed in front of word processors, one of them
>>would write a meaningful book, or even a paragraph, how about a sentence?
>
And what statistics do you use to back up your claim?
>
millerbeers
since you do not believe in God. No wonder you think it is OK to kill
unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks of
protoplasm.
Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for the
moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think about
right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and doing
what is morally right.
According to the posts I have read here the last few days,
proc...@killspam.bigfoot.com. wrote in message
<371521d1...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:35:09 -0600, "millerbeers"
><mille...@email.msn.com> in <ef261M7g#GA.281@upnetnews03> wrote:
>
>>
>>Fury wrote in message <370FE183...@nowhere.com>...
>>>> Sue
>>>
>>>How can you use that amazing organ inside your skull to identify such
>>>things, and come to the conclusion that there is a god?
>>
>>
>>My soul is not in my head, it is in my entire body. The fact that God
>>exists is taken on faith by me, just like I take it on faith that the sun
is
>>in the sky during the daytime, even if it is cloudy and I can't see it.
>
>It can be demonstrated the sun is in it's expected position without
>taking it on faith. Please provide evidence there is any such thing
>as a soul.
>
CCarnan
>since you do not believe in God.
Why whould you think that? I have a good fulfilling life, with good friends
and family. People can rely on me when they need help, and I help out others
when I can. I'm never malicious, vindictive, or manipulative. I never have
hurt anyone.
>No wonder you think it is OK to kill
>unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks of
>protoplasm.
>
My atheism has nothing to do with my pro choice stance. Infact, I know many
religious folks who are also pro choice. We just believe that babies aren't
people when they're only a few months into gestation. It has nothing to do
with religion, actually its a matter of science, which can be proven, god can
not.
>Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for the
>moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think about
>right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and doing
>what is morally right.
I take everything into consideration when I make a decision. No i don't live
by the bible but that doesn't mean I'm a bad person, who lives a frugal life,
with not a care in the world. Yes I have a lot of fun in my life, and no one
is hurt in the process. You don't matter when I make choices, I do. Thats
what different about me and you, you take your congregation of people who even
still stab you in the back though they shake your hand at church. You're just
as vulnerable to being screwed over as I am, so what do you think about that?
Also my right and wrong could be different tha n yours.
CC
Fury
millerbeers wrote:
>
> I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for living,
> since you do not believe in God.
And the real irony of it IS, Ladies and Gentlemen, she doesn't realise
just how PITIABLE that sentence is! I've got simply loads of reasons to
live. And not one of them has anything to do with your IMAGINARY deity.
> No wonder you think it is OK to kill
> unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks of
> protoplasm.
Well, millerbeers, if you lot would get around to providing some proof
of your assertions, we might think differently.
>
> Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for the
> moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think about
> right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and doing
> what is morally right.
>
Ah yes, 'morally right'. Which means living according to THEIR morality.
On the basis of...what? Just because at some point in your life you got
religion, doesn't mean the rest of us need it.
Fury
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710824F...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> millerbeers wrote:
> >
> > Fury wrote in message <370FE183...@nowhere.com>...
> (snip)
>
> > >
> > >How can you use that amazing organ inside your skull to identify such
> > >things, and come to the conclusion that there is a god?
> >
> > My soul is not in my head, it is in my entire body. The fact that God
> > exists is taken on faith by me, just like I take it on faith that the
sun is
> > in the sky during the daytime, even if it is cloudy and I can't see it.
> >
>
> I increasingly doubt.
>
> BTW, this soul thing of yours. What colour is it? How much does it
> weigh? Oh, you mean you've never seen it? No, I didn't think so either.
Your soul is felt by you... just as you feel love you feel your soul,...
BTW, what colour is your love? How much does you love weigh? Oh, you mean
you've never seen it? No, I didnt think so either.
>
> Fury
----What Would Jesus Do?
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710836B...@nowhere.com...
Well if that was my original question, then why dont you answer it instead
of beating around the bush...
----What Would Jesus Do?
Mr. Stumper
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710FAC1...@nowhere.com...
>
>
> millerbeers wrote:
> >
> > I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for
living,
> > since you do not believe in God.
>
> And the real irony of it IS, Ladies and Gentlemen, she doesn't realise
> just how PITIABLE that sentence is! I've got simply loads of reasons to
> live. And not one of them has anything to do with your IMAGINARY deity.
What reason do you have to die and goto hell, is that just a personal goal?
>
> > No wonder you think it is OK to kill
> > unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks of
> > protoplasm.
>
> Well, millerbeers, if you lot would get around to providing some proof
> of your assertions, we might think differently.
>
> >
> > Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for
the
> > moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think
about
> > right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and
doing
> > what is morally right.
> >
>
> Ah yes, 'morally right'. Which means living according to THEIR morality.
> On the basis of...what?
The basis of the Bible .... what is your basis? if you do not have a book or
some other tangible evidence that you base your morality on , then you are
baseing your morality on your opinion....
B
Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eqvf1$2p0$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Understanding that the bible was written by man and that there is no proof
of god doesn't that mean that the morality projected in the bible is based
on mans opinion? Of course it does.
millerbeers
'B' wrote in message ...
don't take that as a put-down) but the Bible was inspired by God, God just
used men as the instruments of putting moral guidelines in writing. The
Bible was also worded to be understood in the then current vernacular. God
also engraved the Ten Commandments in Stone.
Let me ask you this, I'm curious about something. Do you believe in
astrology or that people can channel or that people are psychic? Just
wondering.
Thanks,
Sue
C. A. Owens
El QueSabe wrote:
>
> There is no god, gods, or afterlife.
Prove it.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
millerbeers wrote:
>
> I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for living,
> since you do not believe in God.
Has it ever occurred to you that a person might find his/her life to
have intrinsic value?
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> The basis of the Bible .... what is your basis? if you do not have a book or
> some other tangible evidence that you base your morality on , then you are
> baseing your morality on your opinion....
So are you . . . your opinion that the Bible is correct.
Chris Owens
C. A. Owens
millerbeers wrote:
>
> Since you do not believe in God, you probably won't understand this, (please
> don't take that as a put-down) but the Bible was inspired by God, God just
> used men as the instruments of putting moral guidelines in writing. The
> Bible was also worded to be understood in the then current vernacular. God
> also engraved the Ten Commandments in Stone.
Your proof for all of this being . . . ?
Chris Owens
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710FAC1...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > millerbeers wrote:
> > >
> > > I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for
> living,
> > > since you do not believe in God.
> >
> > And the real irony of it IS, Ladies and Gentlemen, she doesn't realise
> > just how PITIABLE that sentence is! I've got simply loads of reasons to
> > live. And not one of them has anything to do with your IMAGINARY deity.
>
> What reason do you have to die and goto hell, is that just a personal goal?
What reason do you have to believe that hell exists?
> > > Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for
> the
> > > moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think
> about
> > > right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and
> doing
> > > what is morally right.
> > >
> >
> > Ah yes, 'morally right'. Which means living according to THEIR morality.
> > On the basis of...what?
>
> The basis of the Bible .... what is your basis? if you do not have a book or
> some other tangible evidence that you base your morality on , then you are
> baseing your morality on your opinion....
>
At least I AM basing it on MY opinion, and not the opinions of a bunch
of long dead guys. If you took your nose out of your bible for a second,
and THOUGHT about things, you'd realise, as I and many others have, that
you can live a good and happy life WITHOUT religion.
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Your soul is felt by you... just as you feel love you feel your soul,...
> BTW, what colour is your love? How much does you love weigh? Oh, you mean
> you've never seen it? No, I didnt think so either.
>
Love is an emotion, a physiological response to stimuli. The physical
effects CAN be measured. Your soul notion, alas, cannot. So, until you
get around to providing proof of the existence of a soul, a god or any
other of your BELIEFS, kindly shut the fuck up.
Fury
Fury
"Mr. Stumper" wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710836B...@nowhere.com...
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Stumper" wrote:
> > >
> > > Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
I just have...????????
Fury
Enmenanna
"millerbeers" <mille...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for living,
> since you do not believe in God.
Though I'm not an atheist, I find your reasoning really hard to follow. If an
atheist enjoys his/her life, has something to contribute etc, then why on
earth should he/she not have a reason to live?
> No wonder you think it is OK to kill
> unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks of
> protoplasm.
That doesn't follow either. I've met Christian pro-choicers.
> Do any of you have faith in anything? I guess it is easier to live for the
> moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think about
> right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and doing
> what is morally right.
There is a thing called 'empathy' - basically "how would I feel if somebody
did this to me" - and basing ethical decisions on it is what I do, others are
free to use whatever system they please.
Enmenanna
- God? I'm no God. God has mercy. -
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
In His Service
Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710824F...@nowhere.com...
> As you well know, I was talking about your brain. The existence of which
> I increasingly doubt.
>
> BTW, this soul thing of yours. What colour is it? How much does it
> weigh? Oh, you mean you've never seen it? No, I didn't think so either.
>
Fury one,
you consist of molecules, atoms, protons, electrons, etc.
Ever seen them?
What color are these items?
How much do they weigh?
Your simply accepting on faith that you consist of these things by what you
have read and been taught. Lame argument aginst the existance of molecules,
atoms, etc, huh? I agree, not just lame, but silly.Yet this is your exact
argument aginst the existance of the soul, very lame, very silly.
I read these NG's more than I post to them, but your thought was so silly, I
had to comment.
KWP
ISA 12:2 Behold the Lord is my salvation,
I will trust and will not be afraid, for the Lord my God
Is my strength and my song,
He also has become my salvation.
C. A. Owens
In His Service wrote:
>
> Fury <m...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3710824F...@nowhere.com...
> > As you well know, I was talking about your brain. The existence of which
> > I increasingly doubt.
> >
> > BTW, this soul thing of yours. What colour is it? How much does it
> > weigh? Oh, you mean you've never seen it? No, I didn't think so either.
> >
> > Fury
>
> Fury one,
> you consist of molecules, atoms, protons, electrons, etc.
> Ever seen them?
> What color are these items?
> How much do they weigh?
> Your simply accepting on faith that you consist of these things by what you
> have read and been taught. Lame argument aginst the existance of molecules,
> atoms, etc, huh? I agree, not just lame, but silly.Yet this is your exact
> argument aginst the existance of the soul, very lame, very silly.
Excuse me, but we have measured the weight of atoms, etc. We have
scientific evidence of their concrete existence. There is NO data
demonstrating the existence of a soul.
Chris Owens
In His Service
know atoms exist?
Because you were taught so, because you read that it was so. So then you
have accepted this on faith, just as we have accepted on faith that we have
souls.
I know perfectly well that atoms etc. exist. Just as I know perfectly well
my soul exist and my God, your creator and mine exist.
Yes my example was silly, and was meant to be. It reflected the silliness of
Fury's example.
KWP
--
ISA 12:2 Behold the Lord is my salvation,
I will trust and will not be afraid, for the Lord my God
Is my strength and my song,
He also has become my salvation.
C. A. Owens <cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote in message
news:3711E500...@redsuspenders.com...
B
millerbeers wrote in message ...
>
>'B' wrote in message ...
>>
>>Mr. Stumper wrote in message <7eqvf1$2p0$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> millerbeers wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I really pity all of you atheists. You must not have any reason for
>>>living,
>>>> > since you do not believe in God.
>>>>
>>>> just how PITIABLE that sentence is! I've got simply loads of reasons to
>>>> live. And not one of them has anything to do with your IMAGINARY deity.
>>>
>>>What reason do you have to die and goto hell, is that just a personal
>goal?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > unborn children who are living beings and just think of them as hunks
>>of
>>>> > protoplasm.
>>>>
>>>> of your assertions, we might think differently.
>>>>
>>>> >
>for
>>>the
>>>> > moment and only think about your pleasure than it is to really think
>>>about
>>>> > right and wrong (I assume you DO have a sense of right and wrong) and
>>>doing
>>>> > what is morally right.
>>>> >
>>>>
morality.
>>>> On the basis of...what?
>>>
>>>The basis of the Bible .... what is your basis? if you do not have a book
>>or
>>>some other tangible evidence that you base your morality on , then you
are
>>>baseing your morality on your opinion....
>>
>>
>>of god doesn't that mean that the morality projected in the bible is
based
>>on mans opinion? Of course it does.
>>
>>
(please
>don't take that as a put-down) but the Bible was inspired by God, God just
>used men as the instruments of putting moral guidelines in writing. The
>Bible was also worded to be understood in the then current vernacular. God
>also engraved the Ten Commandments in Stone.
I believe in god as an ideal. I beleive the idea of god has power but only
in the believers mind. The inspiration originates in a believers mind. The
act to write is inspired by mans ideas.
>Let me ask you this, I'm curious about something. Do you believe in
>astrology or that people can channel or that people are psychic? Just
>wondering.
No!
El QueSabe
<cao...@redsuspenders.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: There is no god.......
>From: "C. A. Owens" <cao...@redsuspenders.com>
>Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:40:49 -0400
>
>
>
>El QueSabe wrote:
>>
>> There is no god, gods, or afterlife.
>
>Prove it.
>
How?
Vote Libertarian!
B
El QueSabe wrote in message
<19990411012405...@ngol01.aol.com>...
>There is no god, gods, or afterlife.
>
>
>Vote Libertarian!
>
>