Jewish Communications Network Shows its Bigotry Toward ALL Gentiles.
Doc Tavish
Link effective 2/6/98
http://jcn18.com/forum/arcfoodt2961016.htm
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Douglas Friedman (Douglas_...@ccmail.bus.umich.edu) Mon, Jul
01 1996 11:00:14 PM
1) What is the bsis for the requirement that meat and dairy be
separated?
2) Why is grape juice (and wine) subjected to much more restirctive
treatmentt than other juices, such as apple juice?
Douglas-- 1) The prohibition against eating meat and milk together is
biblical. The Torah mentions three times not to cook a kid in its
mother's milk: therefore, the rabbis have learned that there are 3
prohibitions: cooking meat and milk together, eating meat and milk
together, and deriving benefit from a mixture of milk and meat. There
are additional rabbinic prohibitions: eating a cold mixture of milk
and meat, eating poultry and milk, and waiting between eating meat and
eating milk.
2) The stricter rules regarding wine and grape juice come from a
general set of prohibitions trying to reduce the likelihood of
intermarraige. If a Jew and non-Jew drank wine together, it could lead
to a closer relationship, and intermarriage could result. So any wine
that has come into contact with a non-Jew is forbidden to a Jew. An
exception is made for cooked wine (mevushal), because it is believed
that it is of lower quality, and therefore less likely to cause a
strengthening of relationships.
[ ... ]
As to beer Vs. grape juice - the sage who set out to make it difficult
for Jews to party with gentiles (Rabbi Eliezer HaGadol), picked wine,
oil and bread as subjects of his decree, presumably because in his
environment these were key in aiding socializing.
By the way, I think wine, oil and bread were also elements used in
idol worshipping, so that one had grounds to suspect that - coming
from a gentile - these may have been used or intended for use in a
pagan orgy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you all like my "In Their Own Words Series?" Is this not really
a treat to see what Jews themselves write concerning us? How did you
all appreciate the answer to question two? Do you all think that it is
bigoted and hypocritical? What if whites were to speak this way about
blacks? Of you can replce Jews and non-Jews with any other two groups
of people. It still comes out as religious and racial bigotry. I
wonder if Hatewatch and Nizkor keep files on these bigots?
Tavish
Doc Tavish
Link effective 2/6/98
http://www.pswtech.com/~stevenw/jewish/kosher/all.html
Steven Weintraub's Kashrut - Theory, Law and Practice Class Outline
and Notes
Steven Weintraub's Jewish Information pages
[ ... ]
III. Law is regulation of meat, but...
Kashrut laws only apply to items considered food. The ability to eat
non-food items because kosher laws do not apply to them might seem
crazy, but it should be pointed out that many of our additives are
derived from sources which we do not consider food. The Talmud comes
up with many criteria on what is a food. One of the first line tests
is whether a dog would eat it. If a dog would not eat it is not
considered a food (Those of us who own dogs and see what they will eat
recognize this as a good minimum test.)
[What Weintraub has evidently missed with his naive observation is
that many dogs will eat their own excrement! Does this mean that Jews
eat crap? :-) Tavish comment not in original text.]
As stated in the last lesson, kashrut is the regulation of eating
meat. Almost all kashrut laws put restrictions on eating meat in one
form or another. Remembering this might help in practice of certain
laws. I can only think of four rules that apply to non-meat products,
all of which are rabbinic in origin.
1.Grapes (particularly grape juice products) - Because of the long
standing practice to grow grapes (particularly wine) for idolatry, the
Rabbis prohibited the eating of grape and grape products if they were
grown by an unsupervised non-Jew. Grape juice must not be in the
possession of a non-Jew unsupervised unless it is made unfit for
idolatry by boiling (Thus most kosher wine is quick boiled to allow
non-Jewish middle-men to handle it). The Orthodox adhere to this
strictly. The Conservative CJLS recognizes (under a teshuvah of Rabbi
Silverman) that this is no longer a problem and have relaxed this
prohibition to allow general use of grape and grape products, but
supervised grape products are still to be used for ritual purposes. A
recent investigation by Rabbi Dorff has shown that treif components
might be used and wine production. As a result a change in this policy
to only allowing supervised may soon take place.
2.Milk - Because the practice of mixing the milk of clean and unclean
animals used to be prevalent (and to increase the Jewish dairy trade),
the Rabbis decreed that milk should only be used if produced by a Jew
or under the supervision of a Jew. The Modern Orthodox recognize that
government regulation is sufficient to prevent bad mixing, so in many
Western countries milk is considered OK to drink. This is also the
Conservative position. There are still some Orthodox groups who (as a
chumra or "stringency" to guard the law) don't follow this.
Next time you are in Williamsburg or Crown Heights look for signs in
restaurants which say/ "Chalav Yisrael" or Jewish milk.
3.Cheese - Not only is there the problem with mixing, there is a
problem with rennet (the enzyme used to separate milk into curds and
whey). Rennet originally derives from the stomach of an animal and is
thus a meat product. As such it must come from a halachicly slain
animal. Since the rabbis saw this as a problem, they decreed that only
Jewish supervised cheese can be used. The many Orthodox adhere to
this. Milk for strict Orthodox cheese is separated with kosher rennet,
in non-rennet based ways or (as is now more common) using vegetable
based rennet. The Conservative CJLS has ruled that in processing,
rennet becomes a non-food and thus kashrut does not apply to it.
Therefore the CJLS has ruled that all cheese products can be eaten.
4.Health - Jewish law strickly forbids behavior that are dangerous to
one's health. Food that will harm your health can not be eaten. This
provision can be interpreted widely or narrowly, although a fairly
narrow definition is generally used (i.e. fatty foods can be eaten
(Yeah!) unless you are restricted by a doctors order). One behavior
this rule has been applied to recently has been to smoking. Many of
the major Orthodox groups now ban smoking. Also it was (in ancient and
medieval times) thought that eating meat and fish together was back
for one's health. Eating this combination was banned at that time.
Many Orthodox Jews still practice this tradition.
There are five areas of practice that affect the food. These are :
1.Challah - in baking bread (of wheat, oats, spelt, rye or barley) one
must take a portion and burn it in the oven reciting the proper
blessing. This portion is known as challah (not the bread). This is
not necessary for bread baked by non-Jew or dough in very small
amounts (less than 3 lbs). Any bread made without this blessing is not
considered kosher. Because of the question of what is a small amount,
dough between 3 and 5 lbs. should have challah taken, but no blessing
should be done. (Note OU says the weights are 2 lbs. 10 oz. and 4 lbs.
15 oz. - Pollock says anything over 3 lbs requires blessing).
2.The reciting of blessing - All meals must be accompany by the proper
blessings.
3.The breaking of a mitzvah in the preparation of food traditionally
renders that food unkosher. This means food cooked (as opposed to
reheated) on Shabbat is unkosher (with exceptions). Both Orthodox and
Conservative positions on this are the same.
4.Chametz owned over Pesah is not kosher and can not be used or sold.
5.Extremely fine food prepared completely by non-jewish hands. The
food we are talking about are literally stated as those fit for a
king. The key word he is completely. The Ashkenazi custom is that as
long as a Jew does as little as light the stove, the food is kosher.
The Sephardic custom is more stringent.
It should be noted that violation of these rules does not unkasher the
appliance used, only makes the food prepared unfit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many instances can all of you count in which Gentiles are implied
as being unclean in this latest installment of "In Their Own Words
Series?"
You all should print this material and circulate it far and wide only
after verifying it at the link that I supplied. Many people need to be
made aware of this bigotry.
Tavish
Jack Garbuz
[ ... ]
> As to beer Vs. grape juice - the sage who set out to make it difficult
>for Jews to party with gentiles (Rabbi Eliezer HaGadol), picked wine,
>oil and bread as subjects of his decree, presumably because in his
>environment these were key in aiding socializing. <
First of all, these are not decrees but interpretations of the torah
which become common law just as the interpretation of judges become
common law. At times, they can be overruled if legal opionion changes.
>By the way, I think wine, oil and bread were also elements used in
>idol worshipping, so that one had grounds to suspect that - coming
>from a gentile - these may have been used or intended for use in a
>pagan orgy. >
If the gentiles are not "born again Christians" there may be good merit
in the argument. A heathen is a heathen and his actions are
unpredictable. Maimonides, one the greatest Jewish torah scholars, laid
down the principle that Christians and Moslems are not heathens because
they believe in our God. However, due to other questions of kashruth
(i.e., if the food is strictly kosher) orthodox Jews are leery to share a
meal with non-JEws, or even non-orthodox Jews for that matter. SOme
orthodox will not eat in the home of a parent or of a child who is not
orthodox due to kashruth. So one must not read too deeply into Jews not
eating and drinking with Gentiles.