Must Read!!! Exclusion Entirely of Non-Jews in the Jewish Scheme of Things! (Their Own Words People! Wake Up To the Bigotry!) Intermarriage, wine, food partaken with Non-Jews forbidden!
Gunther Schiller
Link effective 2/6/98
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/leff/archives/ach_kdsh.htm
Parshas Acharei Mos
Fences of Holiness
[ ... ]
Other times, rabbinic rules work indirectly by instilling attitudes
that reduce temptations to sin. The Rabbis, for instance, prohibited
drinking wine touched by a non-Jew or eating food cooked by a non-Jew
as a fence against intermarriage. On the surface, it seems ludicrous
that drinking wine in the confines of one's home that has been touched
by a non-Jew, or eating food cooked by a gentile and bought in a store
could in any way make it more likely that one would marry a gentile.
That response, however, fails to comprehend the purpose of the
rabbinic enactment, which is not designed to protect one against
intermarriage with any particular non-Jew, but rather to create an
all-pervasive attitude that is in itself a protective measure. The
prohibition against eating food cooked by non-Jews and from drinking
wine touched by non-Jews has effectively created an attitude of an
absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew. The mere knowledge that the
food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden engenders a feeling of
separateness that makes the thought of intermarriage even more remote.
Similarly, the rabbinic strictures regarding chametz on Pesach have
created a mind-set which makes it extremely unlikely that we will have
any contact with chametz, though it is not something from which we
naturally separate ourselves.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notice the statements: "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
intermarriage even more remote."
Just imagine the uproar by the Jews if a white gentile wanted the same
thing and didn't want intermarriage among his kind. The white gentile
would be ruled a hatemongering racial bigot by the same people that
support this double standard! Simply put- Jews are Religious and
Racial bigots. Their own words condemn them time and time again!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More from the same web page (please notice that they exclude the rest
of humanity so this would make them racist bigot separatists as
well.):
Parshas Kedoshim
The Individual and the Group
The Gemara (Sotah 14a) instructs us in the mitzvah of imitating Hashem
in all His way!,. Just as He clothes the naked, visits the sick,
comforts mourners and buries the dead, so should you emulate His
example. Rambam (Hilchos Availus, Chapter 14:1) mentions all the above
mitzvos, but gives another source: the Torah commandment to "love your
friend as yourself."
[But who is the friend? Not a Gentile in this instance!]
Why the twofold source for the mitzvah of performing acts of kindness?
The Midrash (Bereishis Rabbah 24:7) relates:
R' Akiva said, "Love your neighbor as yourself - this is a great rule
in Torah." Ben Azzai said, "This is the book of the generations of man
... in the image of God was man fashioned" is a greater rule, for one
should not say, ',since I was shamed, so, too, should my friend be
shamed with me. Since I was cursed, so, too, let my friend be cursed
with me."
R' Akiva, as Hillel before him, saw in the commandment "Love your
friend as yourself" the foundation of the entire Torah. The purpose of
the entire Torah, Rambam says (Hilchos Chanukah 4:14), is to bring
peace and harmony to the world, and in order to achieve this, one must
conduct himself so that those things which are hateful and repulsive
to him are not done to his friend.
Ben Azzai, however, feared rooting a person's conduct towards others
in his own subjective feelings and making what is hateful to him the
standard for his conduct towards others. There is always a danger that
a person might become hardened or insensitive to being shamed or
cursed after repeated instances, and thus less sensitive to the need
not to humiliate or curse others. Therefore, said Ben Azzai, "in the
image of God was man fashioned," is a more all-encompassing source for
our duties to our fellow men.
Although both verses seem to apply exclusively to relationships
between man and his fellow, Rashi in Shabbos (31a) points out that
Hashem is also referred to as "your friend," and one must also relate
to Him in peace and harmony. In addition, the relationship between
one's soul and body must be harmonious. "Love your friend as yourself"
thus applies equally to all relationships: between man and God,
between man and man, and between man and himself. It thus encompasses
the entire Torah. see footnote 1.
There are two reasons for the derech eretz the Torah requires us to
show others. One is communal; the other focuses on the individual. The
first arises out of the desire to bring peace and harmony to the
world; the second because each human being intrinsically deserves the
respect and honor befitting one created in the Divine Image. On the
one hand, the Torah is concerned with the individual and the
development of the Divine Image within him; on the other hand the
Torah is concerned with the community, with the social interactions
between people.
At times, these two concerns are harmonious: what is good for the
individual is good for the klal and vice versa. But there are times
when these concerns are in conflict, and the individual's needs
conflict with those of the community. Sometimes the community must
yield to the individual, and sometimes the individual must sacrifice
for the community. This balance between individual and community is
crucial to a proper observance of the Torah and a development toward
perfection.
In Parashas Kedoshim, there are a series of mitzvos which highlight
the importance of the individual, while at the same time not losing
sight of the importance of the individual as a part of the klal. On
the one hand, the klal does not become the supreme value, robbing the
individual of his intrinsic importance. At the same time, the
individual must recognize that he does not exist in a vacuum, that he
is a member of society whose actions profoundly affect others.
The Torah exhorts us, "Do not spread gossip." Respect the privacy of
the individual. And likewise, "Do not stand by with respect to your
friend's blood" - be willing to exert efforts to save the life of a
fellow Jew, for every Jew is an entire world.
At the same time, do not lose sight of the equal importance for unity
and interaction. Thus, "Do not despise your brother and distance
yourself from him by harboring negative feelings in your heart,
thereby causing division in the common soul that binds all Jews.
Likewise, the Torah continues with a command to recognize our
responsibility to others by reproving them when necessary. Do not say:
I'll mind my own business; live and let live. Your fellow Jew is your
business.
The command, "Do not take revenge" also forces us to recognize the
communal nature of the Jewish people. The Yerushalmi compares taking
revenge on a fellow Jew to one who accidentally strikes his left hand
while hammering and then takes the hammer into his bruised left hand
and strikes his right hand.
Now, we can understand the necessity for two sources in the Torah for
deeds of loving kindness. On the one hand, one must do kindness out of
a recognition of the intrinsic value of his fellow Jew, who is a
reflection of the Divine Image. And, in addition, one must also
consider the ramifications of his actions on society, and do kindness
to promote peace and harmony on a communal level.
Both of these aspects are fundamental and crucial to the proper
service of Torah. The students of R' Akiva - despite learning from
their teacher that loving one another as themselves is the basis of
the entire Torah - failed to adequately honor the Divine Image in each
other or acknowledge one another as partners in developing society.
Our mourning over their deaths during this period reinforces our
recognition of respect for our fellow man as the basis of our
relationship with Hashem. We must appreciate our own individual worth
as human beings created in Cod's image, as well as the intrinsic worth
of all our fellow Jews. At the same time, we must also recognize the
equal importance of the Klal and our need to unite peacefully and
harmoniously into a cohesive community.
1. R' Akiva agreed with Ben Azzai that an appreciation of the
intrinsic worth of the individual is crucial, but felt it was implied
in the words "as yourself." A person must first have a proper
understanding of his own intrinsic self-worth in order to fulfill the
mitzvah to relate to his friend in a similar fashion.
................................................................................................
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely no where is a Non-Jew hinted at being a neighbor or a
friend! Re-read the material. Click the link and verify- see for
youselves what Jewry is being taught! Don't get me wrong; I'm not
wanting to be a friend of Jewry. I have known for quite some time now
how much they really despise the majority of people on this planet.
Dr. Phlegming
Gunther Schiller (Scott Bradbury's sock puppet #3 wrote his most intelligent
post ever in message)<34dbaf1a...@news.phoenix.net>...
>Good Night America
Sock puppet #3 has left the building!
Gunther Schiller
Link was efective 2/6/98
http://www.shamash.org/listarchives/mail-jewish/volume1/e-a/m.j862
Subject: mail.jewish #12
May Jews cook for non-Jews on Yom Tov - J. Abeles
Question on Peasach Cleaning - Andrew Reibman
Partial Response to Peasach Cleaning - Editor
Status: RO
=====================================================
May Jews cook for non-Jews on Yom Tov - J. Abeles
Following my posting to net.religion.jewish of the comment that
it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a Passover
Seder, there have been quite a few responses from people who seem
very surprised to hear such a thing. Some of them are non-Jews
who were in fact present at a Passover Seder and are obviously
very unclear about what I was talking about. Others are Jewish
people of apparently good intent who were not at all aware of this.
It is my understanding from an old friend who is knowledgeable in
these matters that indeed Jews are enjoined from inviting non-Jews
to the Pesach Seder and that the reason is that Jews are only
permitted to cook for themselves during the chag days of the shalosh
regalim because it is necessary to celebrate the chag; obviously since
the requirement to celebrate the chag does not halachically involve
non-Jews, the general prohibition against working on the chag applies
to cooking for non-Jews. Possibly, just possibly, one could argue
that if a non-Jew were to stop by uninvited and hungry, he or she
would be allowed to partake of whatever victuals had been prepared
without the expectation that any non-Jew would consume them. (But
that is another matter)
I would like to know if any readers of this note could supply a
chapter and verse authoritative explanation of the prohibition
to satisfy the intense curiousity the issue has aroused among
the population reading net.religion.jewish.
--Joe Abeles
ihnp4!mhuxm!abeles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you all notice: "Following my posting to net.religion.jewish of
the comment that it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a
Passover Seder...."? What does this tell you?
Gunther Schiller
Good Night America
Jack Garbuz
>That response, however, fails to comprehend the purpose of the
>rabbinic enactment, which is not designed to protect one against
>intermarriage with any particular non-Jew, but rather to create an
>all-pervasive attitude that is in itself a protective measure. The
>prohibition against eating food cooked by non-Jews and from drinking
>wine touched by non-Jews has effectively created an attitude of an
>absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew. The mere knowledge that the
>food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden engenders a feeling of
>separateness that makes the thought of intermarriage even more remote.>>
I should think that the blood and race conscious Germanics would be
grateful that orthodox Jews were so vigilant not to have their children
marry outside their people. After all, doesn't that preserve the healthy,
virile blood of the GEntile? Why all this complaining about Jews not
intermarrying? Didn't Hitler enact laws to keep Jews and "Aryans" from
intermarrying? Why do you complain when we either stick to ourselves, or
when we go out looking to miscegenate the pure, lovely gentiles? When
your true aim is to eradicate us nothing we can possibly do will win us
favor in your eyes.
Graham Daveney
Gunther Schiller (doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com) wrote:
: Notice the statements: "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
: non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
: created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
: The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
: engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
: intermarriage even more remote."
:
: Just imagine the uproar by the Jews if a white gentile wanted the same
: thing and didn't want intermarriage among his kind. The white gentile
: would be ruled a hatemongering racial bigot by the same people that
: support this double standard! Simply put- Jews are Religious and
: Racial bigots. Their own words condemn them time and time again!
<yawn>
If whites only want to marry whites then thats their own business.
Everyone knows that Judaism is a religion and not a race.
Do you actually care that you cannot prepare Kosher food for a Jew ?
Do you actually care that you cannot touch Jewish wine ?
If you care so much, how about you convert to Judaism and become a Jew. That
way you can make all the Kosher food you like and touch all the Jewish wine
you like.
Are you trying to tell us that you have a burning desire to start up a
Kosher catering business ? If this is the case then why don't you get off your
arse and convert ?
Life is better as a Jew anyway, you have a very intimate and powerful connection
with the Creator. Its alot of hard work, but worth it.
Regards
Graham
msup...@microsoft.com
ask...@microsoft.com
bi...@microsoft.com
res...@microsoft.com
Jeffrey G. Brown
In article <34dd0bbb....@news.phoenix.net>,
doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:29:24 -0500, jeff_...@bigfoot.com (Jeffrey G.
> Brown) wrote:
>
> >In article <34db9be2...@news.flash.net>, Scott "If it doesn't mention
> >Gentiles, it must mean they hate us!" Bradbury (doc_t...@bigfoot.com,
> >phi...@phoenix.net) wrote:
>
> Still starting off with silly assertions aren't you Jeffrey?
Only when it's yours, Scottie. Nobody crafts silly assertions with the care
and workmanship you do.
> [...deletia...]
> >But where is the Gentile mentioned? Not in this paragraph!
>
> Look at how little of my post that you left Jeffrey! You hardly left a
> thing!
Wrong, liar. I left it all; it's still on your news server, my news server,
and every other news server that carries this newsgroup. What I didn't do
is quote every word of your spew. I'm under no obligation to do so.
> Are you this desperate that you have to resort to such tricks?
It's called editing. I leave in what I respond to, and delete the rest.
Deal with it, Gutless One.
> I will attach the complete post just below your sig line so the lurker
> can compare what I posted to your deceptive allegations and your
> smears against me! Does this suit you?
Yeah, sure, whatever. The hypothetical "lurker" will merely be able to
confirm again that I was right: no Gentiles are mentioned, and that any
conclusion about Jewish attitudes towards Gentiles is therefore unsupported
by the passages you quoted.
> [...deletia...]
> How are they going to re-read the post Jeffrey when the original
> expires?
They'll use DejaNews, just like all non-morons.
> I guess that you want them to go look it up and take their
> time and trouble especially when you could have left every word
> intact.
I guess that non-morons know how to use the threading feature on their
newsreaders, Scottie. I guess you don't.
> [...deletia...]
> >Absence of evidence does not constitute
> >evidence of absence.
>
> Anyone that reads the post below will see exactly that the Jews are
> speaking EXCLUSIVELY of Jews; this would by definition exclude all
> non-Jews even though they aren't named!
Since the subject under discussion in the cut'n'paste that Scottie doesn't
understand is, in fact, the proper behavior of Jews (in, of course, the
sole opinion of the Jew who wrote the piece), then the fact that Jews are
the only folks whose behavior is discussed comes as a surprise to no one
who did not drop out of grade school.
Consider this: Scott Bradbury has never mentioned left-handed albinos in
any of his posts. He is therefore bigoted against all left-handed albinos.
Such racist behavior should earn him and all Bradburys immediate
deportation from the country, back to wherever the rat-bastards came from.
> If I said I were to have an
> All White Association and did not mention blacks- wouldn't most people
> properly assume that blacks weren't included?
Yup. Where, O Gutless Rat-Bastard Bigot, did the text you posted mention an
'All Jew Association'?
JGB
=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown jeff_...@bigfoot.com
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful..." -- '2010'
Lord Cyril Haversham McTavish
Lurkers be sure to look for the statement: "Following my posting to
net.religion.jewish of the comment that it is against halacha for
exclusionary doesn't it?
Lord Cyril Haversham McTavish
>In article <34db9be2...@news.flash.net>, Scott "If it doesn't mention
>Gentiles, it must mean they hate us!" Bradbury (doc_t...@bigfoot.com,
>phi...@phoenix.net) wrote:
Still starting off with silly assertions aren't you Jeffrey?
>> Parshas Kedoshim
>> The Individual and the Group
>>
>> The Gemara (Sotah 14a) instructs us in the mitzvah of imitating Hashem
>> in all His way!,. Just as He clothes the naked, visits the sick,
>> comforts mourners and buries the dead, so should you emulate His
>> example. Rambam (Hilchos Availus, Chapter 14:1) mentions all the above
>> mitzvos, but gives another source: the Torah commandment to "love your
>> friend as yourself."
>>
>> [But who is the friend? Not a Gentile in this instance!]
>But where is the Gentile mentioned? Not in this paragraph!
Look at how little of my post that you left Jeffrey! You hardly left a
thing! Are you this desperate that you have to resort to such tricks?
I will attach the complete post just below your sig line so the lurker
can compare what I posted to your deceptive allegations and your
smears against me! Does this suit you?
>> [...deletia...]
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Absolutely no where is a Non-Jew hinted at being a neighbor or a
>> friend! Re-read the material.
>Yes, do so -- and you will find that absolutely nowhere is the non-Jew
>mentioned in any way in this piece.
How are they going to re-read the post Jeffrey when the original
expires? I guess that you want them to go look it up and take their
time and trouble especially when you could have left every word
intact.
>Absence of evidence does not constitute
>evidence of absence.
Anyone that reads the post below will see exactly that the Jews are
speaking EXCLUSIVELY of Jews; this would by definition exclude all
non-Jews even though they aren't named! If I said I were to have an
All White Association and did not mention blacks- wouldn't most people
properly assume that blacks weren't included?
Lurkers, I humbly request that you all read and re-read the full
unedited text below and you all decide who is speaking truth and
who is trying to cover up the facts!
Tavish
>JGB
>
>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown jeff_...@bigfoot.com
> "What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful..." -- '2010'
The original post un-edited:
Link effective 2/6/98
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/leff/archives/ach_kdsh.htm
[ ... ]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Tavish comments not in origianl text]
Lord Cyril Haversham McTavish
http://www.pswtech.com/~stevenw/jewish/kosher/all.html
Steven Weintraub's Kashrut - Theory, Law and Practice Class Outline
and Notes
Steven Weintraub's Jewish Information pages
[ ... ]
III. Law is regulation of meat, but...
Kashrut laws only apply to items considered food. The ability to eat
non-food items because kosher laws do not apply to them might seem
crazy, but it should be pointed out that many of our additives are
derived from sources which we do not consider food. The Talmud comes
up with many criteria on what is a food. One of the first line tests
is whether a dog would eat it. If a dog would not eat it is not
considered a food (Those of us who own dogs and see what they will eat
recognize this as a good minimum test.)
[What Weintraub has evidently missed with his naive observation is
that many dogs will eat their own excrement! Does this mean that Jews
eat crap? :-) Tavish comment not in original text.]
As stated in the last lesson, kashrut is the regulation of eating
meat. Almost all kashrut laws put restrictions on eating meat in one
form or another. Remembering this might help in practice of certain
laws. I can only think of four rules that apply to non-meat products,
all of which are rabbinic in origin.
1.Grapes (particularly grape juice products) - Because of the long
standing practice to grow grapes (particularly wine) for idolatry, the
Rabbis prohibited the eating of grape and grape products if they were
grown by an unsupervised non-Jew. Grape juice must not be in the
possession of a non-Jew unsupervised unless it is made unfit for
idolatry by boiling (Thus most kosher wine is quick boiled to allow
non-Jewish middle-men to handle it). The Orthodox adhere to this
strictly. The Conservative CJLS recognizes (under a teshuvah of Rabbi
Silverman) that this is no longer a problem and have relaxed this
prohibition to allow general use of grape and grape products, but
supervised grape products are still to be used for ritual purposes. A
recent investigation by Rabbi Dorff has shown that treif components
might be used and wine production. As a result a change in this policy
to only allowing supervised may soon take place.
2.Milk - Because the practice of mixing the milk of clean and unclean
animals used to be prevalent (and to increase the Jewish dairy trade),
the Rabbis decreed that milk should only be used if produced by a Jew
or under the supervision of a Jew. The Modern Orthodox recognize that
government regulation is sufficient to prevent bad mixing, so in many
Western countries milk is considered OK to drink. This is also the
Conservative position. There are still some Orthodox groups who (as a
chumra or "stringency" to guard the law) don't follow this.
Next time you are in Williamsburg or Crown Heights look for signs in
restaurants which say/ "Chalav Yisrael" or Jewish milk.
3.Cheese - Not only is there the problem with mixing, there is a
problem with rennet (the enzyme used to separate milk into curds and
whey). Rennet originally derives from the stomach of an animal and is
thus a meat product. As such it must come from a halachicly slain
animal. Since the rabbis saw this as a problem, they decreed that only
Jewish supervised cheese can be used. The many Orthodox adhere to
this. Milk for strict Orthodox cheese is separated with kosher rennet,
in non-rennet based ways or (as is now more common) using vegetable
based rennet. The Conservative CJLS has ruled that in processing,
rennet becomes a non-food and thus kashrut does not apply to it.
Therefore the CJLS has ruled that all cheese products can be eaten.
4.Health - Jewish law strickly forbids behavior that are dangerous to
one's health. Food that will harm your health can not be eaten. This
provision can be interpreted widely or narrowly, although a fairly
narrow definition is generally used (i.e. fatty foods can be eaten
(Yeah!) unless you are restricted by a doctors order). One behavior
this rule has been applied to recently has been to smoking. Many of
the major Orthodox groups now ban smoking. Also it was (in ancient and
medieval times) thought that eating meat and fish together was back
for one's health. Eating this combination was banned at that time.
Many Orthodox Jews still practice this tradition.
There are five areas of practice that affect the food. These are :
1.Challah - in baking bread (of wheat, oats, spelt, rye or barley) one
must take a portion and burn it in the oven reciting the proper
blessing. This portion is known as challah (not the bread). This is
not necessary for bread baked by non-Jew or dough in very small
amounts (less than 3 lbs). Any bread made without this blessing is not
considered kosher. Because of the question of what is a small amount,
dough between 3 and 5 lbs. should have challah taken, but no blessing
should be done. (Note OU says the weights are 2 lbs. 10 oz. and 4 lbs.
15 oz. - Pollock says anything over 3 lbs requires blessing).
2.The reciting of blessing - All meals must be accompany by the proper
blessings.
3.The breaking of a mitzvah in the preparation of food traditionally
renders that food unkosher. This means food cooked (as opposed to
reheated) on Shabbat is unkosher (with exceptions). Both Orthodox and
Conservative positions on this are the same.
4.Chametz owned over Pesah is not kosher and can not be used or sold.
5.Extremely fine food prepared completely by non-jewish hands. The
food we are talking about are literally stated as those fit for a
king. The key word he is completely. The Ashkenazi custom is that as
long as a Jew does as little as light the stove, the food is kosher.
The Sephardic custom is more stringent.
It should be noted that violation of these rules does not unkasher the
appliance used, only makes the food prepared unfit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many instances can all of you count in which Gentiles are implied
as being unclean in this latest installment of "In Their Own Words
Series?"
I saw:
1) "Rabbis prohibited the eating of grape and grape products if they
were grown by an unsupervised non-Jew. Grape juice must not be in the
possession of a non-Jew unsupervised unless it is made unfit for
idolatry by boiling (Thus most kosher wine is quick boiled to allow
non-Jewish middle-men to handle it)."
The implication being: "ALL Non-Jews are idolators!"
2) "..the Rabbis decreed that milk should only be used if produced by
a Jew or under the supervision of a Jew."
3) "Extremely fine food prepared completely by non-jewish hands. The
food we are talking about are literally stated as those fit for a
king. The key word he is completely. The Ashkenazi custom is that as
long as a Jew does as little as light the stove, the food is kosher."
You all should print this material and circulate it far and wide only
after verifying it at the link that I supplied. Many people need to be
made aware of this bigotry.
Tavish
Lord Cyril Haversham McTavish
According to the Rambam ALL non-Jews can't be trusted or believed
as shown here: "A Non-Jew, however, would not be believed even if he
told us from which bird these eggs came." Looks very racist and
bigoted to me.
Link was effective 2/6/98
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/insites/ch-dt-63.htm
[ ... ]
MAY WE TRUST A NON-JEW WHEN BUYING EGGS?
(a) The Gemara rules that we may buy eggs from a Non-Jew if he tells
us that they are from a specific kosher bird. We need not be concerned
that perhaps the eggs were taken from a bird which is a Neveilah or
Treifah. RASHI (DH Shel) and the RAMBAN explain that we can trust the
word of the non-Jew since he knows that we can easily check if this
egg indeed looks like the egg of the bird he claims it is from, and
therefore the non-Jew will not lie.
(b) The RAMBAM (Hilchos Maacholos Assuros 3:18;19) had a different
reading of the text, according to which our Sugya is not dealing with
a Non-Jew but rather with a Jew who is of unknown credibility. Such a
Jew would only be believed if he singled out the species of bird from
which his eggs came. A Non-Jew, however, would not be believed even if
he told us from which bird these eggs came.
Graham Daveney
Gunther Schiller (doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com) wrote:
: Did you all notice: "Following my posting to net.religion.jewish of
: the comment that it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a
: Passover Seder...."? What does this tell you?
:
Boring.
When I wasnt Jewish, I was invited to many Seder Nights.
Are you going to try and tell us that you are not obsessed with Jews ?
Maybe you should do something about your obsession Doc. Have you ever
considered conversion ?
Graham
Doc Tavish
On 10 Feb 1998 21:36:24 +1100, gra...@daveney.matra.com.au (Graham
Daveney) wrote:
>Gunther Schiller (doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com) wrote:
>: Did you all notice: "Following my posting to net.religion.jewish of
>: the comment that it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a
>: Passover Seder...."? What does this tell you?
I notice that you deleted key parts Graham and the URL where this was
located. I'll show agin for the archives and so others may see the
bigotry and separation in closer deatail.
http://www.shamash.org/listarchives/mail-jewish/volume1/e-a/m.j862
Subject: mail.jewish #12
May Jews cook for non-Jews on Yom Tov - J. Abeles
Question on Peasach Cleaning - Andrew Reibman
Partial Response to Peasach Cleaning - Editor
Status: RO
=====================================================
May Jews cook for non-Jews on Yom Tov - J. Abeles
Following my posting to net.religion.jewish of the comment that
it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a Passover
Seder, there have been quite a few responses from people who seem
very surprised to hear such a thing. Some of them are non-Jews
who were in fact present at a Passover Seder and are obviously
very unclear about what I was talking about. Others are Jewish
people of apparently good intent who were not at all aware of this.
It is my understanding from an old friend who is knowledgeable in
these matters that indeed Jews are enjoined from inviting non-Jews
to the Pesach Seder and that the reason is that Jews are only
permitted to cook for themselves during the chag days of the shalosh
regalim because it is necessary to celebrate the chag; obviously since
the requirement to celebrate the chag does not halachically involve
non-Jews, the general prohibition against working on the chag applies
to cooking for non-Jews. Possibly, just possibly, one could argue
that if a non-Jew were to stop by uninvited and hungry, he or she
would be allowed to partake of whatever victuals had been prepared
without the expectation that any non-Jew would consume them. (But
that is another matter)
~~~~~~~~~~~~ END ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Boring.
It is boring to someone that doesn't want his religious bigotry
exposed but very enlightening to many others!
>When I wasnt Jewish, I was invited to many Seder Nights.
Which according to the part you purposely deleted showed it wasn't
proper for you to be there! You left out some of the critical parts:
"it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a Passover Seder,
there have been quite a few responses from people who seem very
surprised to hear such a thing. Some of them are non-Jews
who were in fact present at a Passover Seder and are obviously
very unclear about what I was talking about. Others are Jewish
people of apparently good intent who were not at all aware of this.
It is my understanding from an old friend who is knowledgeable in
these matters that indeed Jews are enjoined from inviting non-Jews
to the Pesach Seder....."
In other words- you weren't supposed to have been there!
>Are you going to try and tell us that you are not obsessed with Jews ?
Are you going to try and tell us that they are not obsessed with
Gentiles? They are very obsessed with Gentiles. Which group has
organizations which hound people for years, keeps files on people,
runs smear campaigns etc.? It is not the Gentiles doing this- its your
new Masters!
>Maybe you should do something about your obsession Doc. Have you ever
>considered conversion ?
Galatians 1:1,13,14 (English-RSV)
1 Paul an apostle--not from men nor through man, but through Jesus
Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted
the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;
14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my
people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
Note that the Apostle Paul said: " For you have heard of my former
life in Judaism...." You did the exact opposite Graham!
* * * * * *
Why would I want to be a convert to a religion which has had the
following written about and on record for nearly two thousand years
(referring to the Bible text)?
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a
break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their leading
ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous extent,
of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud is the
largest and most important single member of that literature, and round
it are gathered a number of Midrashim, partly legal (Halachic) and
partly works of edification (Haggadic)." The Universal Jewish
Encyclopedia (1943 edition, page 474]
[NOTE: The words in parenthesis are as they appeared in the text; they
are not my additions.]
".... any decision regarding the Jewish religion must be based on the
TALMUD as the final resume...." "The JEWS - Their History, Culture,
and Religion", Vol. 4, p. 1332, Jewish Publication Society of America
"The TALMUD is to this day the circulting heart's blood of the Jewish
religion. Whatever laws, customs or ceremonies we observe- whether we
are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic
sentimentalists-we follow the TALMUD. It is our common law."
THE TALMUD; HEART'S BLOOD of the JEWISH FAITH
by Herman Wouk which also ran serially in the (11/17/59)
New York Herald Tribune
We can safely reason that The Talmud was written by the Pharisees and
that today's Judaism is Talmudic in scope.
Let us now examine what famous people in the Bible said of the
Pharisees (Talmud authors) and to their faces.
Matthew 3:1,7-10 (English-RSV)
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of
Judea....
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees coming for
baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee
from the wrath to come?
8 Bear fruit that befits repentance,
9 and do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our
father'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up
children to Abraham.
10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree
therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into
the fire.
Matthew 5:20 (English-RSV)
[Jesus said] For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of
the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
The following tells who has been cursed with the "unforgivable sin"
Matthew 12:22-37 (English-RSV)
22 Then a blind and dumb demoniac was brought to him [Jesus], and he
healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of
David?"
24 But when the Pharisees heard it they said, "It is only by
Be-el'zebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."
25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided
against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against
itself will stand;
26 and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how
then will his kingdom stand?
27 And if I cast out demons by Be-el'zebul, by whom do your sons cast
them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the
kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods,
unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his
house.
30 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather
with me scatters.
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,
but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven;
but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven,
either in this age or in the age to come.
33 "Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree
bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
34 You brood of vipers! how can you speak good, when you are evil? For
out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the
evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.
36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for
every careless word they utter;
37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will
be condemned."
Mark 3:28-30 (English-RSV)
28 [Jesus said] "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the
sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has
forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" --
30 for they had said, "He has an unclean spirit."
{Special note: The only unforgivable sin is what is declared above.
According to the above only one group has done this. They were not
Nazis either. Hitler and everyone of his adherents stands a better
chance on Judgment Day than Pharisees if we accept what was said
above. Just something to think about! There are no ifs, ands, or buts.
I would rather be labeled by the Pahrisees of today an anti-Semite
than be labeled by God as an anti-Christ!}
Notice whose Children Jesus said the Pharisees were:
John 8:44-49 (English-RSV)
44 [Jesus said] You are of your father the devil, and your will is to
do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar
and the father of lies.
45 But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
46 Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you
not believe me?
47 He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not
hear them is that you are not of God."
48 The Jews answered him, "Are we not right in saying that you are a
Samaritan and have a demon?" {Remember the two preceding scriptural
accounts on the "unforgivable sin"- go review.}
49 Jesus answered, "I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and you
dishonor me.
On Pharisees and their traditions and teachings:
Mark 7:1-19 (English-RSV)
1 Now when the Pharisees gathered together to him, with some of the
scribes, who had come from Jerusalem,
2 they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is,
unwashed.
3 (For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they wash
their hands, observing the tradition of the elders;
4 and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless
they purify themselves; and there are many other traditions which they
observe, the washing of cups and pots and vessels of bronze.)
5 And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, "Why do your disciples
not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands
defiled?"
6 And he said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as
it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart
is far from me;
7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of
men.'
8 You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of
men."
9 And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the
commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!
10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who
speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
11 but you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, What you
would have gained from me is Corban' (that is, given to God) --
12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or
mother,
13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition which you
hand on. And many such things you do."
14 And he called the people to him again, and said to them, "Hear me,
all of you, and understand:
15 there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile
him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him."
16 _
17 And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his
disciples asked him about the parable.
18 And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do
you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile
him,
19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?"
(Thus he declared all foods clean.)
Matthew 23:6,7,8,13,15,24,25,27,33-35 (English-RSV)
6 [Jesus said].....and they love the place of honor at feasts and the
best seats in the synagogues,
7 and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men.
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and
you are all brethren.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you
shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter
yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea
and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte,
you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the
outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of
extortion and rapacity.
27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like
whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they
are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being
sentenced to hell?
34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of
whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your
synagogues and persecute from town to town,
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from
the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of
Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
Notice what Jeus said in verse 34 about scourging or whipping in the
synagogues. Here is Biblical proof that 1st Century Jewish Talmudic
Pharises tortured newly eastablished Christians. All verifiable- look
in your Bibles!
Persecution and torture:
Matthew 23:34 (English-RSV)
[Jesus warned] Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and
scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will
scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town....
The fulfillment:
Acts 5:27-30,40,41 (English-RSV)
27 And when they had brought them [Apostles], they set them before the
council. And the high priest questioned them,
28 saying, "We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet
here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and you intend to
bring this man's blood upon us."
29 But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than
men.
30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus whom you killed by hanging him
on a tree.
40 ... they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged
them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41 Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they
were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name.
Acts 8:1-3 (English-RSV)
1 And Saul was consenting to his death. And on that day a great
persecution arose against the church in Jerusalem; and they were all
scattered throughout the region of Judea and Sama'ria, except the
apostles.
2 Devout men buried Stephen, and made great lamentation over him.
3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he
dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.
Acts 9:1,2 (English-RSV)
1 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples
of the Lord, went to the high priest
2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if
he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them
bound to Jerusalem.
Saul later became the Apostle Paul after being "converted" on the road
to Damascus and here is his confession of what he did to Christians:
Acts 22:1,2,4,5-8,19,20 (English-RSV)
1[Apostle Paul speaks]"Brethren and fathers, hear the defense which I
now make before you."
2 And when they heard that he addressed them in the Hebrew language,
they were the more quiet. And he said:
4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison
both men and women,
5 as the high priest and the whole council of elders bear me witness.
From them I received letters to the brethren, and I journeyed to
Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to
Jerusalem to be punished.
6 "As I made my journey and drew near to Damascus, about noon a great
light from heaven suddenly shone about me.
7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul,
Saul, why do you persecute me?'
8 And I answered, 'Who are you, Lord?' And he said to me, 'I am Jesus
of Nazareth whom you are persecuting.' ......
19 And I said, 'Lord, they themselves know that in every synagogue I
imprisoned and beat those who believed in thee. [YLT version: and I
said, Lord, they -- they know that I was imprisoning and was scourging
in every synagogue those believing on thee]
20 And when the blood of Stephen thy witness was shed, I also was
standing by and approving, and keeping the garments of those who
killed him.' ....
More of Apostle Paul confessing and repenting from his wickedness:
Acts 26:9-11 (English-RSV)
9 "I myself was convinced that I ought to do many things in opposing
the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
10 And I did so in Jerusalem; I not only shut up many of the saints in
prison, by authority from the chief priests, but when they were put to
death I cast my vote against them.
11 And I punished them often in all the synagogues and tried to make
them blaspheme; and in raging fury against them, I persecuted them
even to foreign cities.
{The Apostle Paul was really some sort of a vicious "Nazi" wasn't he
when he existed as a Pharisee named Saul? He did all of this
persecution in the name of Judaism! Proof below.}
Galatians 1:1,13,14 (English-RSV)
1 Paul an apostle--not from men nor through man, but through Jesus
Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted
the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;
14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my
people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
Acts 26:1,4,5 (English-RSV)
1 Agrippa said to Paul, "You have permission to speak for yourself."
Then Paul stretched out his hand and made his defense:
4 "My manner of life from my youth, spent from the beginning among my
own nation and at Jerusalem, is known by all the Jews.
5 They have known for a long time, if they are willing to testify,
that according to the strictest party of our religion I have lived as
a Pharisee.
Here is what the Universal Encyclopedia (1905 ed) says of the
relations of the First Century Christians and Pharisees: "In the
passages referring to the Christian period, "minim" usually indicates
Judeo-Christians.... During the first century of Christianity the
Rabbis lived on friendly terms with the minim.... These friendly
feelings, however, gradually gave way to violent hatred, as the minim
separated themselves from all connection with Jews and propagated
writings which the Rabbis considered more dangerous to the unity of
Judaism than those of the pagans. 'The writings of the minim,' says
Rabbi Tarfon, 'deserve to be burned, even though the holy name of God
occurs therein'... It was forbidden to partake meat, bread, and wine
with the min. Scrolls of the Law, tefillin, and mezuzot written by a
min were burned (Git. 45b ; Yer, Shab. 14b ; Ab, Zarah 40b...) ... The
relatives of a min were not permitted to observe the laws of mourning
after his death, but they were required to assume festive garments and
rejoice (Sem. ii. 10; Yoreh De'ah, 345).... an Israelite who found
anything belonging to a min was forbidden to return it to him (see
Hoshen Mishpat, 266, 2)." Univ Jew Encyc (1905) page 595
{The claim made above: "During the first century of Christianity the
Rabbis lived on friendly terms with the minim." is out of agreement
with what the Bible said.}
We can only conclude with what was written before our time:
[From a previous post]
The Apostle now says of the enemies of Christ: "Who is the liar if it
is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the
antichrist..." 1 John 2:22 Note that there are many antichrists not
just one that is taught by the Pharisees allies: "...just as you have
heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many
antichrists..." 1 John 2:19
Many of the "Churches of Polluted Christendom" teach that "only one
antichrist will come at a certain hour in the future" but this is not
true and it blows a smoke screen to defend all the antichrists in
operation today. If you falsely teach that antichrist is not here yet;
then you are only covering for those that deny Jesus and his
teachings. Much of Christendom has already received its thirty
pieces of silver from the Pharisees and has therefore made
itself a Judas or betrayer too!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For further information:
Looking at what the first century Pharisees did to Christians and
knowing what they did during the Bolshevik Revolution only make you
wonder why they are still seeking damages from the decendents of
Nazis. The Pharisees were first in everything so why should they keep
hand wringing and wailing for what was done to them as they had done
to others?
http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/d2presid.html
http://www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/guest/radical/ES-BOLSH.HTM#4
http://www.idbsu.edu/surveyrc/Staff/jaynes/marxism/bios/trotsky.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No thank you. I think I'll pass on conversion because of what my Lord
said:
Matthew 23:
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you
shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter
yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea
and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte,
you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
Doc Tavish
>Graham
Doc Tavish
On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 00:51:41 -0500, Susan Cohen <ze...@smart.net>
wrote:
>Gunther Schiller wrote:
>> Notice the statements: "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
>> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
>> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>> intermarriage even more remote."
>>
>> Just imagine the uproar by the Jews if a white gentile wanted the same
>> thing and didn't want intermarriage among his kind. The white gentile
>> would be ruled a hatemongering racial bigot by the same people that
>> support this double standard! Simply put- Jews are Religious and
>> Racial bigots.
>
>Nowhere was race ever mentioned.
Race doesn't have to be mentioned. Non-Jew means all that aren't Jews!
>I have no problems with people wanting only to marry those of the
>same religion, & have never called anyone a bigot on that basis.
You use religion now but another time you will pull the race card!
BTW how many of your standard run of the mill Khazar light skinned
Jews marry the black skined Ethiopian Jews or have anything to do with
them? They are your religion. Care to answer this one?
>Nor has any other Jew I know of -
>or that even you can find. Simply put, you are a liar.
I've showed my proof and I did it again. Name call all you wish!
>But you knew that already.
I know that your kind will call others what they wish to hide about
themselves. They call us bigots to hide their bigotry they call us
"Holocaust Deniers" to deny their "Russian Holocaust" which killed
tens of millions more. Don't worry I'll be reposting official United
States Gov't archives again!
>> Their own words condemn them time and time again!
>You mean *your* words.
I did not write:
>> "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
>> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
>> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>> intermarriage even more remote."
YOUR people did!
I put it in perspective when I said:
>> Just imagine the uproar by the Jews if a white gentile wanted the same
>> thing and didn't want intermarriage among his kind. The white gentile
>> would be ruled a hatemongering racial bigot by the same people that
>> support this double standard! Simply put- Jews are Religious and
>> Racial bigots.
Imagine it this way
>> "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
>> non-whites and from drinking wine touched by non-whites has effectively
>> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between White and non-white.
>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-white is forbidden
>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>> intermarriage even more remote."
Is the above bigoted or is it not? Instead of using White and
Non-white try using Jew and Gentile (which is a Non-Jew). Would this
be bigotry?
Below is the whole article and if you carefully read the article there
is a lot more to the seaparateness of Jews and non-Jews than a
religious one. They are speaking societally as well.
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/leff/archives/ach_kdsh.htm
[ ... ]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tavish comments
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More from the same web page (please notice that they exclude the rest
of humanity so this would make them racist bigot separatists as
well.):
Parshas Kedoshim
The Individual and the Group
The Gemara (Sotah 14a) instructs us in the mitzvah of imitating Hashem
in all His way!,. Just as He clothes the naked, visits the sick,
comforts mourners and buries the dead, so should you emulate His
example. Rambam (Hilchos Availus, Chapter 14:1) mentions all the above
mitzvos, but gives another source: the Torah commandment to "love your
friend as yourself."
[But who is the friend? Not a Gentile in this instance! Tavish]
...............................................................................................
This article is provided as part of Shema Yisrael Torah Network
Permission is granted to redistribute electronically or on paper,
provided that this notice is included intact.
For information on subscriptions, archives, and other Shema Yisrael
Classes, send mail to par...@shemayisrael.co.il
Shema Yisrael Torah Network
ad...@shemayisrael.co.il
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il
Jerusalem, Israel
972-2-532-4191
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely no where is a Non-Jew hinted at being a neighbor or a
friend! Re-read the material. Click the link and verify- see for
youselves what Jewry is being taught! Don't get me wrong; I'm not
wanting to be a friend of Jewry. I have known for quite some time now
how much they really despise the majority of people on this planet.
Doc Tavish
Joseph Hertzlinger
How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and Non-Buddhist?
Ailsa
I'm not sure I'm following this thread correctly but it occurs to me
that bigotry amonst Jews is an impossibility if you trace the origins of
the 20th century use and understanding of the term "bigot".
A bigot was considered one who considered the black population inferior
and - AND - acted on his belief through oppression. This term can be
justifyably applied to any race, religion, color or creed which
oppresses another.
It is human for all people to see the differences between themselves and
other people from other groups. Somehow, this entire nation infers a
negative judgement comes from every human recognition of differences and
calls this bigotry.
The negativity is in the act of persecution and oppression.
Jews have never oppressed another group based on differences.
I know someone will inevitably cite Israel in contradiction to this. I
would argue Israel is in defense of itself and if oppression can be
cited it is not because of differences but rather outward, physical and
military action against its citizens. This is an oppression of violent
behavior and not inherent differences, therefore it is not bigotry.
Ailsa
P.S. - I don't know where everyone on this thread is from. I'm in
America.
Here in America we have movies depicting violence against women, late
night comedy shows often sexualizing women etc. and it is not considered
sexual harrassment against women. It is considered, reported and
financially supported as entertainment.
Whether or not it would be considered entertaining everywhere, is not my
point.
My point is, in this country, it is okay to think something with
negative connotations, as creative minds do to create, but it is not
okay to act on or act out those thoughts in real life.
It is one thing to be, at times, frustrated by our differences for they
limit our open communication, which is such a nice part about life. It
is not always possible to understand one another correctly. But, it is
quite another thing to persecute and oppress those you do not relate to
as well as someone without differences from yourself.
I think it is also important to realize that not everyone can understand
to try to understand another person at the same time because we are all
at different stages of growth and integration with the world. It takes a
bit of experience and a bit maturity to do this successfully.
Finding two people in one room at one time at the same level and in the
right spirit - unencumbered by the effects of all the sadly wasted years
of fighting - effects running generations forward and back - is not only
a hard thing to do, it is a miracle from heaven when it happens.
Doc Tavish
On 12 Feb 1998 16:54:57 GMT, no-...@sonic.net (Scoop) wrote:
>Quoth Joseph Hertzlinger:
>: How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and Non-Buddhist?
>
>Better still -- Believer and Non-Believer? That's really the gist if the
>distinction.
Or better still and from the oft used stand Jews themselves use.
>> "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
>> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
>> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>> intermarriage even more remote."
Use Jew and Non-Jew and let it stand for race! Not all Jews are
religious; many are secular and humanist as most of their socialists
are. So Jew also means race!
george
Jews, religious or not, are smart. That's why Dick Trash is jealous.
You can try to be like us but you will never be like us. You just a dumb goy.
(AKA SHEGETZ)
Doc Tavish wrote:
> On 12 Feb 1998 16:54:57 GMT, no-...@sonic.net (Scoop) wrote:
>
> >Quoth Joseph Hertzlinger:
> >: How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and Non-Buddhist?
> >
> >Better still -- Believer and Non-Believer? That's really the gist if the
> >distinction.
>
> Or better still and from the oft used stand Jews themselves use.
>
> >> "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
> >> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
> >> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
> >> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
> >> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
> >> intermarriage even more remote."
>
Jack Garbuz
>>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>>> intermarriage even more remote."
>
>religious; many are secular and humanist as most of their socialists
>are. So Jew also means race!>
Jews are a Volk, or "am" or "umma" or a people. Naturally this means some
commonality in the gene pool since they were prohibited from marrying
out, and until this century rarely did. But Jews are as varied in their
tastes and politics as any other people, be they English, Welsh, Irish,
German, or what have you.
Joseph Hertzlinger
In <34e36981....@news.smart1.net> doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com
(Doc Tavish) writes:
>
>On 12 Feb 1998 16:54:57 GMT, no-...@sonic.net (Scoop) wrote:
>
>>Quoth Joseph Hertzlinger:
>>: How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and
>>: Non-Buddhist?
>>
>>Better still -- Believer and Non-Believer? That's really the gist if
>>the distinction.
>
>Or better still and from the oft used stand Jews themselves use.
>
>>> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
>>> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
>>> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>>> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>>> intermarriage even more remote."
>
>religious; many are secular and humanist as most of their socialists
>are. So Jew also means race!
I suspect that most Orthodox Jews will not eat food cooked by an
unsupervised atheist Jew.
Graham Daveney
I think that Doc needs to do something about this nasty obsession that he has
with Jews and convert to Judaism.
You know there are certain groups that I don't like, so I don't post messages
in their newsgroups because I don't want to be bothered with their opinions.
Doc must love Jews.
I really wish he would convert so he could start keeping G-d's commandments,
otherwise he's just going to be sitting around wasting his time and ours.
Graham
george (g...@thepentagon.com) wrote:
: Jews, religious or not, are smart. That's why Dick Trash is jealous.
: You can try to be like us but you will never be like us. You just a dumb goy.
: (AKA SHEGETZ)
:
: Doc Tavish wrote:
:
: > On 12 Feb 1998 16:54:57 GMT, no-...@sonic.net (Scoop) wrote:
: >
: > >Quoth Joseph Hertzlinger:
: > >: How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and Non-Buddhist?
: > >
: > >Better still -- Believer and Non-Believer? That's really the gist if the
: > >distinction.
: >
: > Or better still and from the oft used stand Jews themselves use.
: >
: > >> "The prohibition against eating food cooked by
: > >> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
: > >> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
: > >> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
: > >> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
: > >> intermarriage even more remote."
: >
: > Use Jew and Non-Jew and let it stand for race! Not all Jews are
: > religious; many are secular and humanist as most of their socialists
: > are. So Jew also means race!
:
:
:
msup...@microsoft.com
ask...@microsoft.com
bi...@microsoft.com
res...@microsoft.com
Vapor
<<>. Alpert troll, try (something) new.
george wrote in message <34E3D53E...@thepentagon.com>...
>Jews, religious or not, are smart. That's why Dick Trash is jealous.
>You can try to be like us but you will never be like us. You just a dumb
goy.
>(AKA SHEGETZ)
>
>Doc Tavish wrote:
>
>> On 12 Feb 1998 16:54:57 GMT, no-...@sonic.net (Scoop) wrote:
>>
>> >Quoth Joseph Hertzlinger:
>> >: How about interchanging Jew and Non-Jew with Buddhist and
Non-Buddhist?
>> >
>> >Better still -- Believer and Non-Believer? That's really the gist if the
>> >distinction.
>>
>> Or better still and from the oft used stand Jews themselves use.
>>
>> >> non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively
>> >> created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew.
>> >> The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden
>> >> engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of
>> >> intermarriage even more remote."
>>
Jethro
george wrote in message <34E3D53E...@thepentagon.com>...
>Jews, religious or not, are smart. That's why Dick Trash is jealous.
>You can try to be like us but you will never be like us. You just a dumb
goy. (snip)
>> Talk about a racist and bigot. Dumb goy? You are a racist biggot and isnt
the jews that claim to be the victims of racism. No wonder there so much
hate on this N.G.
Gregory Taylor
Scott Bradbury flies the Feeb flag:
>Lurkers be sure to look for the statement: "Following my posting to
>net.religion.jewish of the comment that it is against halacha for
>exclusionary doesn't it?
No, no really. The average reader whose eddycayshun runs past Middle
School already knows something you don't (actually, several things):
there are a number of different sorts of Jewish religious practice,
and this particular posting clearly comes from one of the more conservative
wings (a well-read person would probably know that from the choice of
language, but that's another matter). Remember your usual difficulties
with the two phrases, "some Jews are X" and "all Jews are X," Scottie?
It's causing you trouble again - you ought to get it fixed. If you wish
to quote this as proof of anything, you'll have to attend to matters of
source (is this man an authoritative source? In what traditions? Is this
view held by *all* strains of Judaism [hint: no]?).
The content of the posts is irrelevant in this case. You've quoted a
single source, made inferences from it that don't scan or parse, and have
provided no evidence that you either understand what you're reading
(and much back-channel evidence that you clearly *don't*) or that you
understand how to go about using what you *have* posted to prove any
assertion whatsoever. This is pretty standard behaviour on your part.
Those two thing conspire against you again, Scottie; the only "lurkers"
who'd buy your "proofs" exist either in your fevered brain, live behind
the walls of your trailer, or are more commonly known as your feet and
your other hand.
--
When I pronounce the word Future,/the first syllable already belongs to the
past./When I pronounce the word Silence,/I destroy it./When I pronounce the
word Nothing,/I make something no nonbeing can hold./ (Wislawa Szymborska)
Gregory Taylor WORT-FM URL:http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~gtaylor/RTQE.html
Jack Garbuz
>>Use Jew and Non-Jew and let it stand for race! Not all Jews are
>>religious; many are secular and humanist as most of their socialists
>>are. So Jew also means race!
>
>unsupervised atheist Jew.>
There are orthodox Jews who won't eat in their parents' house (and
orthodox parents who won't eat in the childrens' house) if the other is
not orthodox. It simply has nothing at all to do with race.
george
OK, No discrimination. You are a dumb goy too. Happy?
John Winslow Brown
Gregory Taylor <gta...@shell1.msn.fullfeed.com> wrote in article
<6c1v67$4...@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com>...
> Scott Bradbury flies the Feeb flag:
> >Lurkers be sure to look for the statement: "Following my posting to
> >net.religion.jewish of the comment that it is against halacha for
> >non-Jews to be present at a Passover Seder..." Sounds bigoted and
> >exclusionary doesn't it?
>
> No, no really. The average reader whose eddycayshun runs past Middle
> School already knows something you don't (actually, several things):
> there are a number of different sorts of Jewish religious practice,
> and this particular posting clearly comes from one of the more
conservative
> wings (a well-read person would probably know that from the choice of
> language, but that's another matter). Remember your usual difficulties
> with the two phrases, "some Jews are X" and "all Jews are X," Scottie?
> It's causing you trouble again - you ought to get it fixed. If you wish
> to quote this as proof of anything, you'll have to attend to matters of
> source (is this man an authoritative source? In what traditions?
>Is this view held by *all* strains of Judaism [hint: no]?).
Who knows about the Judaism but the views are still held by the majority og
Jerws whether they are practicing or secular!
> The content of the posts is irrelevant in this case. You've quoted a
> single source,
How about four more sources that sing a similar tune? Are you going to deny
the bigotry of these as well?
"We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink
containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew
after the seal of the bottle has been opened."
"Non commercial bread and cake that is completely baked by an
individual non-Jew is called pat akum and may not be eaten."
"Certain foods which were completely cooked by a non-Jew (disbud akum)
may not be eaten, even if the foods are kosher and are cooked in
kosher utensils."
"In an effort to limit social mingling with our gentile neighbors and
the intermarriage which might result, our sages prohibited eating food
cooked by gentiles, even if all ingredients are kosher and the food is
cooked in a kosher vessel while under the watchful eye of a Jewish
supervisor."
"Such food is referred to in Hebrew as bishul nochri or bishul akum.
It is particularly important to bear this issue in mind if one has a
non-Jewish housekeeper or attendent who takes part in household
food preparation."
"The prohibition of bishul nochri applies only if the entire cooking
process is done by the nochri . If a Jew places the food on the fire
or, according to the Ashkenazic view, if he ignites or increases the
fire, no bishul nochri problem can develop. Even if the cooking
process was initiated by a nochri , as long as it was substantially
completed by a Jew (e.g. the pot was removed from the fire before the
food can be considered cooked and then returned to the fire by a Jew)
the bishul nochri prohibition will generally not be present."
"The rabbis later went further in battling assimilation, declaring any
wine handled by a non-Jew unfit to drink."
"Rabbinic authorities decreed that wine, even if touched by non-Jews,
was fit for Jewish use so long as it was mevushal, or cooked. The idea
was, in part, that cooked wine is far less palatable and no one would
want to use it."
All of the above bigotry expressed against the majority of humanity may be
found at the following web addresses:
http://www.kashrus.org/kosher/supervis.html
http://www.mcs.net/~kollel/www/halacha/fax210.html
http://www.mcs.net/~kollel/www/halacha/fax211.html
http://bnaibrith.org/ijm/articles/wine/index.html
> The content of the posts is irrelevant in this case. You've quoted a
> single source, made inferences from it that don't scan or parse, and have
> provided no evidence that you either understand what you're reading
> (and much back-channel evidence that you clearly *don't*) or that you
> understand how to go about using what you *have* posted to prove any
> assertion whatsoever. This is pretty standard behaviour on your part.
For a person that babbles many words you say very little.
> Those two thing conspire against you again, Scottie; the only "lurkers"
> who'd buy your "proofs" exist either in your fevered brain, live behind
> the walls of your trailer,
Ah the standard Jewish put down of living in a trailer house! I'm glad
that you help me prove my case! Thank you so kindly.
>or are more commonly known as your feet and
> your other hand.
There are a lot more people that will read this post than you can imagine
Gregory!
Red Herring
You get twins.
Graham Daveney
Doc Tavish (doc_t...@nonspam.bigfoot.com) wrote:
: On 10 Feb 1998 21:36:24 +1100, gra...@daveney.matra.com.au (Graham
Non-Jews have no requirement under Jewish law to partake in Jewish Festivals.
Any work which is allowed on Jewish Festivals is only that work deemed to be
absolutely neccessary.
That is the prohibition against having a non-Jew over for a Festive meal.
You will also notice that there are exceptions for a non-Jew who is in
need of food and who happens to come upon a Jewish household in his hour
of need.
Who are you kidding when you try and make us believe that Jews have to
include non-Jews in something for which non-Jews are not obligated and
no in need of.
Your arguments are specious.
:
: >When I wasnt Jewish, I was invited to many Seder Nights.
:
: Which according to the part you purposely deleted showed it wasn't
: proper for you to be there! You left out some of the critical parts:
: "it is against halacha for non-Jews to be present at a Passover Seder,
: there have been quite a few responses from people who seem very
: surprised to hear such a thing. Some of them are non-Jews
: who were in fact present at a Passover Seder and are obviously
: very unclear about what I was talking about. Others are Jewish
: people of apparently good intent who were not at all aware of this.
: It is my understanding from an old friend who is knowledgeable in
: these matters that indeed Jews are enjoined from inviting non-Jews
: to the Pesach Seder....."
:
: In other words- you weren't supposed to have been there!
The people who's places I was invited to were Ultra-Orthodox Jews, some of
them Rabbi's. So there must have been some type of leniency regarding the
prohibition of cooking for non-Jews on Jewish festivals.
Your assumption of Jewish "bigotry" because Jews are not allowed to cook
for non-Jews on festivals is ridiculous.
If you bothered reading any further you would notice that there is no
prohibition against having non-Jews over for the Sabbath meals. This is
because there is no cooking allowed on the Sabbath and any food consumed
is pre-cooked.
The prohibition has nothing to do with religious separatism, the prohibition
all stems from the issue of not cooking on Jewish Festivals for those people
for whom there is no obligation to partake in Festive meals.
Do you honestly care that you cannot go to an Orthodox Jewish household on
Jewish Festivals ?
If you want so much to be invited to an Orthodox Jewish household on Jewish
Festivals then convert and become a Jew, then you too would be obligated to
have a meal on the Festival and therefore it would be permissible for a Jew
to cook for you.
:
: >Are you going to try and tell us that you are not obsessed with Jews ?
:
: Are you going to try and tell us that they are not obsessed with
: Gentiles?
Where in any of my postings have I indicated an obsession with non-Jews ?
There are certain groups that I dislike, so I don't want contact with them.
So I don't bother posting messages into the newsgroups frequented by those
people I don't like.
: They are very obsessed with Gentiles. Which group has
: organizations which hound people for years, keeps files on people,
: runs smear campaigns etc.? It is not the Gentiles doing this- its your
: new Masters!
Are you trying to tell us that the Jews have no right to self-protection ?
The Jew Haters are out to destroy Jews and Judaism, the Jews as anyone have a
right to live free of harrassment and vilification.
It has been proven beyond doubt that Jew Hatred leads to the death of innocent
Jews.
Your attempts of defining Jewish Self-Protection as somehow provocative sounds
like the Germans in WWII.
Are you trying to suggest the Jews should just roll over and let themselves
be destroyed ?
:
: >Maybe you should do something about your obsession Doc. Have you ever
: >considered conversion ?
:
: Galatians 1:1,13,14 (English-RSV)
: 1 Paul an apostle--not from men nor through man, but through Jesus
: Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
: 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted
: the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;
: 14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my
: people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
:
: Note that the Apostle Paul said: " For you have heard of my former
: life in Judaism...." You did the exact opposite Graham!
Thats right, I saw the light.
I'm not going to sit here and bag Christianity to you, because Judaism
teaches that the Righteous of all the Nations have a place in the world to
come. If a non-Jew can behave righteously and decently as a Christian then
good.
The fact is the the NT was canonified nearly 300 years after the death of
Christ and is riddled with Jew Hatred.
:
: * * * * * *
Correct.
Todays Judaism is the inheritor of the proud Phariseeic tradition.
:
: Let us now examine what famous people in the Bible said of the
Ridiculous.
Reading the NT for an understanding of the Pharisees is the equivalent of
reading Mein Kampf for an understanding of Jews.
The early Christian Church set out to annihilate Judaism for a variety of
reasons.
:
: Notice whose Children Jesus said the Pharisees were:
:
: John 8:44-49 (English-RSV)
: 44 [Jesus said] You are of your father the devil, and your will is to
: do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
: has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him.
: When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar
: and the father of lies.
: 45 But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
: 46 Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you
: not believe me?
: 47 He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not
: hear them is that you are not of God."
: 48 The Jews answered him, "Are we not right in saying that you are a
: Samaritan and have a demon?" {Remember the two preceding scriptural
: accounts on the "unforgivable sin"- go review.}
: 49 Jesus answered, "I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and you
: dishonor me.
:
: On Pharisees and their traditions and teachings:
Meaningless Jew Hating drivel.
:
: Mark 7:1-19 (English-RSV)
This proves nothing.
:
: Matthew 23:6,7,8,13,15,24,25,27,33-35 (English-RSV)
It was a Jewish country, therefore the Jews in that country fell under
the jurisdiction of the Jewish/Roman authorities.
Christianity as it first existed was a breakaway cult from Phariseeic
Judaism.
You have no right to question the Jewish authorities treatment of cults,
anymore than I do as an Australian to question American treatment of criminals.
:
: Persecution and torture:
Paul was doing nothing more than stamping out a ridiculous little cult.
You cannot compare the extermination of an entire people with the hounding
of miscreant Jews by other Jews.
You will notice that Jews are more than happy for non-Jews to become
Christians and practise Christianity, but they have no desire to see Jews
getting sucked into Christianity.
Where can you show me Jewish opposition for non-Jews becoming Christians ?
Within the realm of Jewish Life the Pharisees were the authorities, and they
had every right to supress those cults that were un-Jewish.
:
: Galatians 1:1,13,14 (English-RSV)
: 1 Paul an apostle--not from men nor through man, but through Jesus
: Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
: 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted
: the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;
: 14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my
: people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
So what.
:
: Acts 26:1,4,5 (English-RSV)
So what ?
The Jewish religious authorities have every right to dissallow contact
with Jews who have fallen into what they consider a cult.
All you have shown us are perfectly valid actions by Jewish religious
authorities in preserving the Jewish religion and G-d's Law.
If a non-Jew wants to be a Christian then thats fine, just don't come and
try and turn Jews to this new religion.
:
: We can only conclude with what was written before our time:
: [From a previous post]
:
: The Apostle now says of the enemies of Christ: "Who is the liar if it
: is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the
: antichrist..." 1 John 2:22 Note that there are many antichrists not
: just one that is taught by the Pharisees allies: "...just as you have
: heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many
: antichrists..." 1 John 2:19
:
: Many of the "Churches of Polluted Christendom" teach that "only one
: antichrist will come at a certain hour in the future" but this is not
: true and it blows a smoke screen to defend all the antichrists in
: operation today. If you falsely teach that antichrist is not here yet;
: then you are only covering for those that deny Jesus and his
: teachings. Much of Christendom has already received its thirty
: pieces of silver from the Pharisees and has therefore made
: itself a Judas or betrayer too!
:
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: For further information:
:
: Looking at what the first century Pharisees did to Christians and
: knowing what they did during the Bolshevik Revolution only make you
: wonder why they are still seeking damages from the decendents of
: Nazis. The Pharisees were first in everything so why should they keep
: hand wringing and wailing for what was done to them as they had done
: to others?
Meaningless.
What has Judaism and Jews got to do with the Commies ?
Other than the fact the Commies were one of the few radical organisations of
the 19th and 20th centuries to allow Jews as members.
The Pharisees as the protectors of the Law had every right to confine the
damage that was being done by the small amount of Jews who had fallen into
Christianity.
You will also find the same Phariseic acts against the false Messianic
movements of the Frankists and the Shabeteians. Both perfectly legitimate
actions against Jews who had fallen into movements with false Messiah's.
You will also notice that it is perfectly acceptable for a non-Jew to be
a Christian according to Jewish authorities.
:
:
: http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/d2presid.html
:
: http://www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/guest/radical/ES-BOLSH.HTM#4
:
: http://www.idbsu.edu/surveyrc/Staff/jaynes/marxism/bios/trotsky.htm
:
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:
: No thank you. I think I'll pass on conversion because of what my Lord
: said:
:
: Matthew 23:
: 13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you
: shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter
: yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
: 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea
: and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte,
: you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
:
: Doc Tavish
Fair enough.
I'm not going to argue with that.
Then why don't you forget about Jews and stay out of soc.culture.jewish ?
If you don't then we will have to assume that you are obsessed with Jews.
Do you know why Christianity has been trying to get the Jews to convert to
Christianity for the past 2000 years ?
Its because the Jews saw Jesus, they saw his entire life and they rejected
him as a false Messiah.
The people who are Jews today are the spiritual and physical descendents of
the Jews who rejected Jesus for the joke that he was.
Your continuous postings in soc.culture.jewish show as that in spite of your
"Christianity" and in spite of the repugnance towards Phariseic Judaism you
continually and perpetually set yourself up to spite and incite Jews against
you.
Why is this ?
If Christianity provided you with the moral and spiritual gratification that
it should. You wouldnt worry about Jews, you wouldnt even bother with them.
Fact is that you are obsessed with Jews, in spite of your Christianity which
erroneously shows you Jews as "monsters" and "persecutors" of Jews who had
become involved in the cult of Christianity, you still feel the need to make
incessant postings full of confusion, and clutching at straws in repeated
attempts to show Judaism to be what 4th century Christian Jew Hating
propaganda would like to teach you to believe.
The only way that you are going to give release to your obsession with Jews
is to become one yourself.
:
:
:
: >Graham
:
Graham
Doc Tavish
On 14 Feb 1998 22:31:01 +1100, gra...@daveney.matra.com.au (Graham
Daveney) wrote:
I know but you Jews have a requirement to bar them from coming. Where
is the diversity and multi-culturalism that your people always want
for everyone else?
>Any work which is allowed on Jewish Festivals is only that work deemed to be
>absolutely neccessary.
>
>That is the prohibition against having a non-Jew over for a Festive meal.
Yes, it is called bigotry and discrimination when other people do it
but it is a "prohibition" when Jews do it to others.
>You will also notice that there are exceptions for a non-Jew who is in
>need of food and who happens to come upon a Jewish household in his hour
>of need.
One of the "Laws" Moses handed down was for Jews to keep their
"Slaves" fed!
>Who are you kidding when you try and make us believe that Jews have to
>include non-Jews in something for which non-Jews are not obligated and
>no in need of.
Then you shouldn't ever criticize a "white-power" type that only wants
whites around if you and your brethren don't want to be hypocrites.
You can't ask to "discriminate" when you say others "discriminate" and
choose who they want in their presence. You "Jews" always seem to want
two standards!
>Your arguments are specious.
That is your opinion!
Care to make excuses for more Jewish bigotry toward the majority of
mankind? Try these Graham and remember that I have never, ever called
you a homosexual. You must remember that because one of your brethren
has laid claim that I call all of my opposition homosexuals.
Try these out fellow heterosexual:
"We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink
containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non Jew
.................................................