The New, "Interactive" Ernst Zundel

Ken McVay

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Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

to

In article <33371aee....@news.txdirect.net>,
hma...@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

>When will so-called "revisionists" such as Raven, Smith, Zundel and
>others of that ilk come out of their respective closets of denial and
>tell us, like Mr. (?) Slayer has so bravely done, what their true
>agenda is?

Mr. Zundel is now claiming that his web site is, er, "interactive."
Perhaps if my esteemed friend Mr. Mazal would "interact" with the
Zundelsite, and ask this question, the new, "interactive" Ernst
Zundel would, er, interact and locate that elusive closet door.

--
Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org
kmc...@nizkor.org |---------------------------------------------
--------------------| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Search Nizkor: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html

Harry W. Mazal OBE

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Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

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On 25 Mar 1997 15:23:32 GMT, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Ken McVay)
wrote:

>In article <33371aee....@news.txdirect.net>,
> hma...@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>
>>When will so-called "revisionists" such as Raven, Smith, Zundel and
>>others of that ilk come out of their respective closets of denial and
>>tell us, like Mr. (?) Slayer has so bravely done, what their true
>>agenda is?
>
>Mr. Zundel is now claiming that his web site is, er, "interactive."
>Perhaps if my esteemed friend Mr. Mazal would "interact" with the
>Zundelsite, and ask this question, the new, "interactive" Ernst
>Zundel would, er, interact and locate that elusive closet door.
>

My friend and colleague, Mr. McVay suggests that I "interact" with Mr.
Zundel in an attempt to bring him out of the denial closet. Let us
attempt such an "interaction" by interpreting some of his words as
spoken by his parrot:

>Ernst Zundel has been asking: "Did Six Million Really Die?" He has given
>30 years of his life - and all that he is and has - to that question.

How terribly heroic of Mr. Zundel. Thirty years of his life to living
a lie seems a bit excessive.

>After an intensive write-in campaign after the 1988 Zundel Trial, initiated
>by the Zundel Team and directed to Mr. Gorbachev, the then leader of the
>Soviet Union, the Soviets finally released the remaining Death Books of
>Auschwitz, which they had captured in 1945.

>Surprise! Guess what?

>The so-called "4 million", revised to "1.5 million," have shrunk to 74,000
>proven deaths!

Oh, wow! What a surprise!

Far more competent historians than Mr. Zundel, most of them not
Jewish, must be shattered by such a disclosure. Littell, Bauer,
Wolfe, Muller, van Pelt, Pressac, Czech, Hayes, Michael, Kogon, Feig,
Browning, Braham, Fleming, Kogon, Gilbert, Marrus, Sereny, Lifton,
Collijn, Friedrichs, Rittner, Mirkovic, Faber, Modras, Patterson,
Ketels, Westermann, Gushee, Melson, Borkin, Levin, Jonassohn,
Burleigh, Hilberg, Hackett, Kafer, Biss, Delgado, Schneider, Bankier,
Seidel, Weiss, Steininger, Morrison, Langer, Kuttner, Fletcher,
Taylor, Grover, Pomrenze, Sampson, Eller, Franklin, Krausnick,
Mommsen, Hale, Smyth, Beddie, Kent -- to name but a handful of the
authors listed in my library -- are _all_ wrong, and one single
person whose scholastic credentials are dubiuous, is right.

The mind boggles at Mr. Zundel's pompous assumptions.

>All meticulously recorded - name, date, nationality, religion, time, reason
>and cause of death!

>German researcher Tjudar Rudolf, who is fluent in German, English, French,
>Yiddish and Polish and understands most slavic names and languages, has
>painstakingly gone over all these Soviet/Auschwitz death register books and
>totaled the number of Jewish deaths according to name and religion - even
>allowing for slavicized names.

>The end result?

>Slightly over 30,000 Jewish dead in Auschwitz.

A more scholarly approach by either Mr. Zundel or his parrot might
reveal that the overwhelming majority of the Jews who were murdered by
the Nazis -- colleagues by self-admission of Mr. Zundel -- were
neither registered nor totalized by their killers. Mr. Zundel or his
parrot might want to explain the testimony of the perpetrators, the
documents issued by the railways, and the words of any ten of the
above historians chosen at random to explain this apparent
incongruency. But they won't. The truth is far too painful to Mr.
Zundel and his parrot who idolize Hitler and all he stood for.

>That is what "Holocaust" Revisionism has achieved!

After thirty years of lying, Mr. Zundel and his parrot have only
managed to show their undying hatred for the Jews; and their peevish
and distorted worship of the Nazi regime.

He furthermore and perversely celebrates that [only] 30,000 Jews
died in Auschwitz, and these of disease and malnutrition. Howe very
considerate of this pair of liars. What were the Jews doing in
Auschwitz to begin with? What did the old, the infirm, the very young
and the incapable of working doing in Auschwitz? What happened to the
children, mothers, grandparents, sisters, brothers, parents and
friends of the very few who survived the Holocaust? Mr. Zundel and
his parrot cannot begin to explain.

>Tat is a tragic enough number of people. Why the need to exaggerate?
>to justify what? A vicious hate campaign for half a century against a former
>enemy? To vilify a regime and a people who entered the pages of history
>some 50 years ago?

If only thirty thousand innocent victims had died it would be more
than enough to vilify that disgusting regime and the people who
participated in cold-blooded murder. How much viler they -- and their
present defenders are -- that the number was closer to six million.
Is there any doubt that both Mr. Zundel and his parrot would have been
quite proud of themselves had they had been old enough to be part of
that cadre of death?

Interact with that.

--

Harry W. Mazal OBE

Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Over 1000 Megs of data: http://www.nizkor.org
Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org (Under construction - permanently!)

No e-mail replies, please. All e-mails will be treated as public disclosures.

Ken McVay

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Mar 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/27/97

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In article <5ha2g2$1l3s$4...@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>,
gmc...@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <5h8qlk$9j1$1...@eclipse.txdirect.net> -
>kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Ken McVay) writes:

>:>Mr. Zundel is now claiming that his web site is, er, "interactive."

>:>Perhaps if my esteemed friend Mr. Mazal would "interact" with the
>:>Zundelsite, and ask this question, the new, "interactive" Ernst
>:>Zundel would, er, interact and locate that elusive closet door.

>I don't suppose you would be prepared to bet a Guiness on that, would
>you?

That's a very serious question, Mr. McFee (I have a motor yacht for
you), and, when Guinness is involved, most serious indeed. And, as
Mr. Zundel has claimed, through his various and sundry minions, that
he is, ah, "interactive," methinks it behooves us, one and all, to
encourage this, er, "interactivity," don't you agree?

Ms. Rimland says Mr. Zundel is, er, "interactive," and I see no
reason to dispute her - she is, as we all know, a most reliable and
truthful witness who would not dream of, er, stretching reality in
hope of political - nay, in hope of legal - gain.

Nor, I am certain, would any capable Canadian Federal jurist have
cause to doubt the veracity of this woman - she says Mr. Zundel is,
er, "interactive," and that means, by Ziggety, that Mr. Zundel _is_,
er, "interactive," eh?

The only question which seems to remain is obvious, so I won't
comment further... at least not just yet. The new, er, "interactive"
Ernst Zundel will surely join us any day now, right?

Since it is clear that neither Ms. Rimland nor the new, er,
"interactive" Ernst Zundel would dream of lying under oath, I see no
need to risk one of my cans of Imported (not made by That Brewery)
Irish Elixir on further contemplation of the matter.

I will, however, should you find yourself on Vancouver Island, be
most pleased to sport the first round of Irish Nirvanah my own self.

That, Sir, you can take to the bank; I promise.

--
Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org
kmc...@nizkor.org |---------------------------------------------

--------------------| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Search Nizkor: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html

Orest Slepokura

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Mar 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/28/97

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In article <5hcis8$1dh$1...@eclipse.txdirect.net>, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org
(Ken McVay) wrote:

=============================================================================

What a load of crap, up there, courtesy of Ken McVay!

Ken McVay is a bullshit artist!

Several months ago, the die-hard Nazi sympathizer, Ernst Zundel, offered
to meet with Ken Mcvay, one on one, over a cup of coffee, and engage in a
no holds barred debate on the Holocaust - or whatever.

It would have videotaped for the sake of posterity, for the sake of
historical accuracy.

He, i.e. Ken McVay, could have "unmasked" Ernst Zundel then and there!

Were Ken McVay even as half as intellectually well-armed and well-endowed
as he claims to be, then he would have - and should have - gladly sat down
opposite Ernst Zundel. in the very same manner that, say, Mike Wallace of
"60 Minutes" did, and taken Ernst Zundel on, *mano a mano*.

McVay (wisely?) didn't and, apparently, won't (prudently?), but at the
same time Ken McVay likes to go round posturing as the Mr. Big who's
altogether eager-beaver to get the grand Holocaust debate rolling.

The Great Pretender, what!

McVay likes to paint himself as the "founder" of the Nizkor Project (with
its legion of desperate foul-mouthed defenders), when his real persona
more closely resembles that of a carnival barker, a latter-day Archie
Rice.

His 4-letter "circus" is said to be intended to honour the victims of the
Holocaust.

All I can say is, let's hope his "sympathies" don't expand to include
other victims of other genocides, and thereby also debase the dignity of
those unhappy victims and survivors.

Hot damn!

Who wants to be remembered and "honoured" by defenders releasing a
flash-flood of 4-letter words, eh?

Orest Slepokura

--
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection? - Auberon Waugh *
*
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992 *
*******************************************************************

Jamie McCarthy

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Mar 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/28/97

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slep...@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:

> Several months ago, the die-hard Nazi sympathizer, Ernst Zundel, offered
> to meet with Ken Mcvay, one on one, over a cup of coffee, and engage in a
> no holds barred debate on the Holocaust - or whatever.

"Debate" implies that there are penalties for lying. When I
participated in debate in high school, you would be kicked off the team
for the rest of the year if you were caught falsifying evidence.

On Usenet, false evidence can be exposed. It may take a few days or
weeks to research it, but it can eventually be done.

That's the wonderful thing about Usenet -- it has all the advantages of
debate, plus it takes place in a time frame that allows contemplation,
persistence, and research, and deemphasizes the importance of
grandstanding, personal charisma, emotional appeals, and shouting down
one's opponents.

No wonder Ernst Zundel has turned down Ken McVay's repeated offers to
join us on Usenet. He much prefers to emit soundbites to the television
cameras and radio microphones. After all, when you turn to the camera
and solemnly pronounce that it has been proven by documentary evidence
that all the Allied reports of death camps were lies, what can your
helpless opponent do?

http://webcom.com/ezundel/english/dsmrd/dsmrd29lachout.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/austrian/austrian-resistance-archives/lachout-document.html

> McVay likes to paint himself as the "founder" of the Nizkor Project

> (with its legion of desperate foul-mouthed defenders) [...] His
> 4-letter "circus" [...]

I'm sorry, what was that about "foul-mouthed" and "4-letter"?

> Ken McVay is a bullshit artist, a ball-less wonder!

Posted/emailed; note followups.
--
Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
ja...@nizkor.org Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
http://www.nizkor.org/

Orest Slepokura

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Mar 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/28/97

to

=============================================================================

Ken McVay is a bullshit artist, a ball-less wonder!

Several months ago, the die-hard Nazi sympathizer, Ernst Zundel, offered

to meet with Ken Mcvay, one on one, over a cup of coffee, and engage in a
no holds barred debate on the Holocaust - or whatever.

It would have been videotaped for the sake of posterity, of historical
accuracy. He, Ken McVay, could have "unmasked" Ernst Zundel then and
there.

Were Ken McVay even as half as intellectually well-armed and well-endowed
as he claims to be, then he would have - and should have - gladly sat down

opposite Ernst Zundel. in the very same manner that, say, Mike Wallce of

"60 Minutes" did, and taken Ernst Zundel on, *mano a mano*.

McVay (wisely?) didn't and he won't (prudently?), but at the same time he
likes to go round posturing as someone who's altogether eager-beaver to
get the grand debate rolling.

The Great Pretender!

McVay likes to paint himself as the "founder" of the Nizkor Project (with

its legion of desperate foul-mouthed defenders), when his real persona
more closely resembles that of a carnival barker, a latter-day Archie
Rice.

His 4-letter "circus" is said to be intended to honour the victims of the
Holocaust.

All I can say is, let's hope his "sympathies" don't expand to include

other victims of other genocides.

Hot damn!

Who wants to be remembered and "honoured" by defenders wielding a
flash-flood of 4-letter words?

Daniel Keren

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Mar 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/28/97

to

slep...@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

# What a load of crap, up there, courtesy of Ken McVay!
#
# Ken McVay is a bullshit artist, a ball-less wonder!

So, Slepokura, when is your great hero, Ernst Zundel,
going to appear on the net?

Some folks might be interested to hear about his
fascinating research into the "secret German UFO's".

As you must know, Zundel used to claim that the Nazi
leadership fled the collapsing Reich using these "secret
UFO's", and flew them right into the center of the earth,
via a "hole in the South Pole".

This is NOT a joke. You can see the fliers Zundel
published on these matters, in

http://www.nizkor.org/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers

Zundel claimed, for instance, that he met "German scientists"
who were involved in designing and building the "UFO's"...

The man's obviously insane. A normal person will not make
such claims - don't you agree? A common claim made by
Zundel's lame-brained supporters is "he only did it for
publicity". Hardly convincing. A normal person would
find other means to attract attention.

How desperate must the "revisionist movement" be, to
select a lunatic like Zundel to represent it?

-Danny Keren.

Gord McFee

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Mar 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/29/97

to

In message <5hcis8$1dh$1...@eclipse.txdirect.net> -
kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Ken McVay) writes:
:>
:>In article <5ha2g2$1l3s$4...@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>,

:> gmc...@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
:>>In message <5h8qlk$9j1$1...@eclipse.txdirect.net> -
:>>kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Ken McVay) writes:
:>
:>>:>Mr. Zundel is now claiming that his web site is, er, "interactive."
:>>:>Perhaps if my esteemed friend Mr. Mazal would "interact" with the
:>>:>Zundelsite, and ask this question, the new, "interactive" Ernst
:>>:>Zundel would, er, interact and locate that elusive closet door.
:>
:>>I don't suppose you would be prepared to bet a Guiness on that, would
:>>you?
:>
:>That's a very serious question, Mr. McFee (I have a motor yacht for
:>you), and, when Guinness is involved, most serious indeed. And, as
:>Mr. Zundel has claimed, through his various and sundry minions, that
:>he is, ah, "interactive," methinks it behooves us, one and all, to
:>encourage this, er, "interactivity," don't you agree?

Why absolutely! I think that "interactivity" is what this is all about.
The brave Mr. Zuendel should stride into this newsgroup and show us
just how interactive he can be. After all, if one is to be interactive,
one must interact. And despite the brave Mr. Zuendel's claims to such,
I have yet to see him post in this newsgroup, or any other newsgroup for
that matter.

It's almost enough to make one think that Mr. Zuendel is about as
interactive as the rock used to form his head. One could almost infer
that he is a spineless jellyfish who hides behind Ingrid's skirts. One
might deduce that his claims, or Ingrid's, to Zuendel's being prepared
to interact, or interacting already, are just so much rubbish. One
could go from there to conclude that Ernie and Ingrid are a couple of
shameless liars.

All Ernie has to do to prove I am full of it is show up. I ain't
holding my breath.

:>Ms. Rimland says Mr. Zundel is, er, "interactive," and I see no

:>reason to dispute her - she is, as we all know, a most reliable and
:>truthful witness who would not dream of, er, stretching reality in
:>hope of political - nay, in hope of legal - gain.

Of course she wouldn't. And there's no way you can force a McFee or a
McVay to down a Guiness.

:>Nor, I am certain, would any capable Canadian Federal jurist have

:>cause to doubt the veracity of this woman - she says Mr. Zundel is,
:>er, "interactive," and that means, by Ziggety, that Mr. Zundel _is_,
:>er, "interactive," eh?

Well, you *are* dealing with Canadian jurists here. :-)

By golly, I think those canadian jurists should be provided with any and
all information that will assist them in assessing any fiction that may
be, or may have been, submitted to them. };->

:>The only question which seems to remain is obvious, so I won't

:>comment further... at least not just yet. The new, er, "interactive"
:>Ernst Zundel will surely join us any day now, right?

Er, yeah, sure. Sure he will. He will. ....... He won't?

:>Since it is clear that neither Ms. Rimland nor the new, er,

:>"interactive" Ernst Zundel would dream of lying under oath, I see no
:>need to risk one of my cans of Imported (not made by That Brewery)
:>Irish Elixir on further contemplation of the matter.
:>
:>I will, however, should you find yourself on Vancouver Island, be
:>most pleased to sport the first round of Irish Nirvanah my own self.

That sounds like a helluva deal.

Posted and e-mailed.

--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time

Gord McFee

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Mar 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/29/97

to

In message <slepokuo-270...@ts9ip90.cadvision.com> -
slep...@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

[deleted]

:>What a load of crap, up there, courtesy of Ken McVay!
:>
:>Ken McVay is a bullshit artist!

Yokes. You have already started with the naughty words of which you
accuse Mr. McVay below. A had hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

:>Several months ago, the die-hard Nazi sympathizer, Ernst Zundel, offered

:>to meet with Ken Mcvay, one on one, over a cup of coffee, and engage in a
:>no holds barred debate on the Holocaust - or whatever.

Did he now? What a load of bullshit (to quote your word). How could
yellow-belly Ernie offer anything? He never posts here, he never
e-mails. Did he yell it from the tree tops? Sorry about that, sir,
your friend Zuendel is and has always been, a spineless jellyfish.

:>It would have videotaped for the sake of posterity, for the sake of
:>historical accuracy.

I suppose David Cole would have taped it? };->

:>He, i.e. Ken McVay, could have "unmasked" Ernst Zundel then and there!

Pretty hard to do anything to Mr. Zuendel. He's never around. Not very
"interactive", as they say.

:>Were Ken McVay even as half as intellectually well-armed and well-endowed

:>as he claims to be, then he would have - and should have - gladly sat down

:>opposite Ernst Zundel. in the very same manner that, say, Mike Wallace of

:>"60 Minutes" did, and taken Ernst Zundel on, *mano a mano*.

I don't know how well-endowed Mr. McVay is, but I can tell you that he
has been out here taking on all denier comers for many a moon now, and
he has done quite well for himself. Zuendel? He never shows up--too
gutless. Instead, he sends a whole bunch of mini-Zuendels to fight his
battles for him. Pretty pathetic.

:>McVay (wisely?) didn't and, apparently, won't (prudently?), but at the
:>same time Ken McVay likes to go round posturing as the Mr. Big who's
:>altogether eager-beaver to get the grand Holocaust debate rolling.

You wouldn't by any chance be talking about the con job that one of
Ernie's disciples tried to pull, would you? Ernie has already been
wiped out on television four or five other times. Now he would like to
have a "debate" with McVay? All Zuendel has to do to debate, where
everyone can judge his effectiveness, is show up. Where is he?

:>The Great Pretender, what!

Terrific song.

:>McVay likes to paint himself as the "founder" of the Nizkor Project (with

:>its legion of desperate foul-mouthed defenders), when his real persona
:>more closely resembles that of a carnival barker, a latter-day Archie
:>Rice.

Mr. McVay *is* the founder of the Nizkor project. I am not aware that
he likes to paint himself. The times I have met him, he wore no paint
or makeup of any kind. Honest to God.

:>His 4-letter "circus" is said to be intended to honour the victims of the
:>Holocaust.

Mr. McVay has no connections with any circus of which I am aware. He is
involved with a web site that has won numerous awards. He does show up
when the fun begins. Where *is* Ernie anyway?

:>All I can say is, let's hope his "sympathies" don't expand to include
:>other victims of other genocides, and thereby also debase the dignity of

:>those unhappy victims and survivors.

Mr. McVay honours the memory of the Holocaust victims by refusing to let
denier scum get away with their lies and their antisemitism.

:>Hot damn!
:>
:>Who wants to be remembered and "honoured" by defenders releasing a

:>flash-flood of 4-letter words, eh?

Like the several you have unleashed in this post?

Gee, this interactive stuff is neat.

Posted and e-mailed to Mr. Slepokura and Mr. McVay.

Not e-mailed to the non-interactive Feigling Zuendel.

Ken McVay

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Mar 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/29/97

to

In article <slepokuo-270...@ts9ip90.cadvision.com>,
slep...@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:

>In article <5hcis8$1dh$1...@eclipse.txdirect.net>, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org
>(Ken McVay) wrote:

>> That's a very serious question, Mr. McFee (I have a motor yacht for
>> you), and, when Guinness is involved, most serious indeed. And, as
>> Mr. Zundel has claimed, through his various and sundry minions, that
>> he is, ah, "interactive," methinks it behooves us, one and all, to
>> encourage this, er, "interactivity," don't you agree?

>> Ms. Rimland says Mr. Zundel is, er, "interactive," and I see no

>> reason to dispute her - she is, as we all know, a most reliable and
>> truthful witness who would not dream of, er, stretching reality in
>> hope of political - nay, in hope of legal - gain.

>> Nor, I am certain, would any capable Canadian Federal jurist have
>> cause to doubt the veracity of this woman - she says Mr. Zundel is,
>> er, "interactive," and that means, by Ziggety, that Mr. Zundel _is_,
>> er, "interactive," eh?
>>

>> The only question which seems to remain is obvious, so I won't
>> comment further... at least not just yet. The new, er, "interactive"
>> Ernst Zundel will surely join us any day now, right?