Time to Celebrate -SECRET OF ADOLF HITLER
Jude Yeager
>Some love. Kill your dog, kill yourself.
>
>By the way, according to his personal secretary, she never once heard
>him use the word "love." Not in all the time she was with him. Not about
>his people, not about anything or anyone.
>
>So much for your fantasies.
>
>Sara
>
Too bad we can't give you the same treatment our aunts and uncles gave
to your grandparents in our former days of glory. You would make a fine
lampshade as well as a few wallets and key fobs. Your abundant fatty
tissues would yield plenty of candles and many bars of soap. The meat
we could butcher from your carcass would feed our animals and my pet
German Shepherd would fancy himself to gnaw on your bones but alas we
are not in power now but who knows what the future shall bring. We look
forward to processing you just as our aunts and uncles did in our former
days of glory to your grandparents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
is unverified.
Susan Cohen
"Jude Yeager" <JewH...@auschwitz.net> wrote in message
news:IRGJJNAT3773...@anonymous.poster...
> On 21 Apr 2003 12:09:45 GMT, Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >Some love. Kill your dog, kill yourself.
> >
> >By the way, according to his personal secretary, she never once heard
> >him use the word "love." Not in all the time she was with him. Not about
> >his people, not about anything or anyone.
> >
> >So much for your fantasies.
> >
> >Sara
I notice not one bit of refutation, just hate:
> >
> Too bad we can't give you the same treatment our aunts and uncles gave
> to your grandparents in our former days of glory. You would make a fine
> lampshade as well as a few wallets and key fobs. Your abundant fatty
> tissues would yield plenty of candles and many bars of soap. The meat
> we could butcher from your carcass would feed our animals and my pet
> German Shepherd would fancy himself to gnaw on your bones but alas we
> are not in power now but who knows what the future shall bring. We look
> forward to processing you just as our aunts and uncles did in our former
> days of glory to your grandparents.
But you're the same jackasses who say the Holocaust was a lie, right?
Just how stupid *are* you idiots?
Susan
Mike B
Susan Cohen <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3ea58e13$1...@vienna7.his.com...
>
> "Jude Yeager" <JewH...@auschwitz.net> wrote in message
> news:IRGJJNAT3773...@anonymous.poster...
> > On 21 Apr 2003 12:09:45 GMT, Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
wrote:
> >
> > >Some love. Kill your dog, kill yourself.
> > >
> > >By the way, according to his personal secretary, she never once heard
> > >him use the word "love." Not in all the time she was with him. Not
about
> > >his people, not about anything or anyone.
> > >
> > >So much for your fantasies.
> > >
> > >Sara
>
> I notice not one bit of refutation, just hate:
>
> Just how stupid *are* you idiots?
>
> Susan
>
>
I notice not one bit of refutation, just hate: Yeah, just like your posts...
Wally Cleaver
>
>"Jude Yeager" <JewH...@auschwitz.net> wrote in message
>news:IRGJJNAT3773...@anonymous.poster...
>> On 21 Apr 2003 12:09:45 GMT, Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Some love. Kill your dog, kill yourself.
>> >
>> >By the way, according to his personal secretary, she never once heard
>> >him use the word "love." Not in all the time she was with him. Not about
>> >his people, not about anything or anyone.
>> >
>> >So much for your fantasies.
>> >
>> >Sara
:
>I notice not one bit of refutation, just hate:
I don't see any hate at all. Sara fantasizes about torture and having her
breasts whipped. Irma Grese was one of those Nazi Dominatrix_Vixens who did such
stuff.
http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/nazidocsandothers.html
Irma Grese
Grese was a concentration camp guard at Auschwitz. She was also known as the
"Blond Angel of Death." At Auschwitz, Grese was placed in charge of 18,000
female prisoners where she "beat prisoners without mercy and both watched and
helped medical experiments"(Snyder, 1975). Irma Grese was especially fond of the
operations that dealt with the removal of womens' breasts (Snyder, 1975). She
had affairs with quite a few doctors at Auschwitz including Mengele, and was
condemned to death after the war. <END>
http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,6000,220217,00.html
"...the activities of Irma Grese, the camp guard at Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Bergen-Belsen who reached orgasm by whipping women..." <END>
Someone is probably fisting by now!! :-) Sara is probably right now getting all
"hot and bothered" and turned on as the following stuff is reminiscent of her
"My Master Holds The Ropes Just So" which I take the liberty to quote here and
now:
<START>
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
My Master holds the rope just so.
He knows me. Knows my moods. Knows the fear behind my eyes, both real and
imagined.
Those eyes widen as he gently lays the rope down, as he carefully,
methodically, systematically, lays the toys down on the bed.
Soft moans escape from behind gagged lips. I have been told to watch.
To see each and know that soon each will touch me.
He looks up briefly as he lays each down on the bed. Checking reactions.
Watching.
The short whip. A sigh.
The deerskin. The suede.
The small braided thong, the one that stings. A short moan.
The horsehair that stings but never marks.
The canes. The paddles. A pause.
I wait, knowing.
The small velvet bag that holds clamps. Clamps too severe for my breasts,
yet applied anyway.
A gasp. And then his smile.
He knows me. He knows I will take the pain to please him. He knows the
sacrifice I make to his Gods of Pain. He sees the torment in my eyes. The
desire to please. The love. The fear of the pain.
My Master holds the rope just so.
Through his fingers, around my wrists, making delicate rings softer than
steel. Stronger than steel. One on each wrist, a gentle bracelet that is
soon pulled tight, stretched to the bedposts and wrapped tightly. One on
each ankle. No matter how I tighten my muscles as he wraps the rope, still
it is perfectly tight. The circulation moves.
The ankle does not.
I lie face-up on the bed, my body a perfect X. Face up. Oh, Goddess, he's
going to whip my breasts.
But first, two small wooden clothespins bob before my eyes. I turn my
head, remember I am instructed to watch, turn back. The clothespins bite
the delicate flesh of each nipple. Grasp. Sting. Burn. He waits.
My Master knows me. Knows he can whip me, clothespins and all. Knows the
pain, where it will hurt the most, what I can and cannot take.
He waits.
The burning increases as the pins are removed. Ah, he will not whip me
with clothespins in place. But the moment when I was unsure, when the
blood pounded in my temples and the fear covered me like a shroud, then he
watched my eyes.
The whip falls. Which one is it now? I cannot turn my head to see which he
reaches for. But I know them all. I arch my back, try to stay still.
My Master knows me. Knows I will hold position as long as possible, before
the pain forces me to writhe, to turn, to try in vain to shield my
breasts. Knows the moment when I can no longer stay still. And precisely
then, says gently, "Don't move."
My Master holds the rope just so. Gently tugging at the knots, to release
arms and legs from bondage. Gently unwraps each wrist, each ankle. Rubs
each, and kisses the places where the rope has left its mark. The gag is
removed. I swallow.
"Kneel."
I crouch on the bed, head down, ass up, as he mounts the bed behind me.
His hands caress my ass softly, then spank sharply. Slowly, quickly, his
hand falls upon my ass. I wait for the moment, the pain/pleasure as he
will enter me. But not yet. First a gentle tapping, soft touch, as he
marks the place the cane will fall. I brace myself, plead with myself to
hold position, knowing each stroke brings a fire hotter than any flame.
Five strokes. Six. I have not moved. As the pain from each begins to
subside, a soft, half-sob. "Thank you, Master."
Eight. Nine. My knees give out, and I fall to the bed, sobbing. But
immediately back on my knees again. "Thank you, Master."
Ten. I am aware of nothing, save the pain. And his voice, as I am
commanded to orgasm, not from stimulation, not from his fingers or his
cock, but from pain alone. My body responds without hesitation. My
pleasure is screamed out for his pleasure.
Later, I will feel his cock inside me. I will feel the force as he thrusts
deep into me, bruising the tender flesh with his strength. Later I will
come, and come, and come, but only by his command. Later, we will lie
back, exhausted, as he cradles me in his arms, strokes me gently, whispers
in my ear.
But not yet.
Now he rises from the bed, returns to the toys so carefully laid out before
me.
My Master holds the rope just so.
<STOP>
Compare the above to what follows and it looks like Sara has found more willing
"Masters"!! :-) Perhaps Sara could write a book like Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's
"Hitler's Willing Executioners" and call it "Sara's Willing Masters"! How's that
for an idea. You Jews seem to get into all of that bondage and torture stuff and
I bet that is why you all are so hung up with Nazi stuff-- especially drooling
over their acts of brutality. Other people suffered the same fate but they don't
dwell upon it like Jews do nor are they involved in the industry which profits
from it like you Masochist Jews do.
>> Too bad we can't give you the same treatment our aunts and uncles gave
>> to your grandparents in our former days of glory. You would make a fine
>> lampshade as well as a few wallets and key fobs. Your abundant fatty
>> tissues would yield plenty of candles and many bars of soap. The meat
>> we could butcher from your carcass would feed our animals and my pet
>> German Shepherd would fancy himself to gnaw on your bones but alas we
>> are not in power now but who knows what the future shall bring. We look
>> forward to processing you just as our aunts and uncles did in our former
>> days of glory to your grandparents.
:
>But you're the same jackasses who say the Holocaust was a lie, right?
Hardly looks like "Holocaust Denial" to me. You goofy Jews always seem to have
problems with perception of reality.
>Just how stupid *are* you idiots?
You're the idiot.
>Susan
Tavish
Special Note: Yale F. Edeiken Esq. of Allentown, Pennsylvania- Supreme Court
ID# 40290 has falsely asserted he was associated with the two law firms
mentioned below-- Todd Miller & Associates and Trainor Law Offices. Both law
firms told me first hand that Yale F. Edeiken was never an attorney at their
firms!! That is fact!
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=SH9g7.634%247d....@newshog.newsread.com&lr=&hl=en
From: "Yale F. Edeiken" <ya...@enter.net>
Subject: Re: The Common Thread To All These Cancel Announcements...
Message-ID: <SH9g7.634$7d.2...@newshog.newsread.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:06:26 GMT
Defendant Bradshit <rdoc_...@my-deja.cpm, tavi...@ix.netcom,com> wrote
in message news:7lp1otkrsh37k7ioi...@4ax.com...
[...]
> Care to tell all of us why both Todd Miller and Paul Trainor distanced
> themselves from you
Because they were dealing with someone who was "mentally unstable"
(their dscription) and a "crazy man" (again, their description) who they
wanted to go away as quckly as possible.
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Compare what Yale said on August 20, 2001 concerning two law firms attitudes
toward his presence with his own words: "they were dealing with someone who was
"mentally unstable" (their dscription) and a "crazy man" (again, their
description) who they wanted to go away as quckly as possible" to this which was
posted July 4, 2000: "Tubby has no respect from the legal community and as a
whole they wish he'd just waddle away."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=20000704143439.5399.qmail%40nym.alias.net&rnum=4
From: SoloP...@nym.alias.net
Subject: Yale _Tubby_ Edeiken
Date: 2000/07/04
Message-ID: <200007041434...@nym.alias.net>
Sara Salzman
Jude Yeager <JewH...@auschwitz.net> wrote:
You're just charming.
Sara
--
If Ernst Zundel is a refugee, Daffy Duck is Albert Einstein. Some
propositions are so ludicrous that they are a betrayal of common
sense and human dignity if allowed a moment's oxygen.
- REX MURPHY, The Globe and Mail
Sara Salzman
Wally Cleaver <Wally_...@mayfield.net> wrote:
Gloves are off, Fat Boy. Truce is over. I've tried to pity your sorry
ass, I even tried to care when you mentioned your various infirmities
and health problems.
But you're a slimy, hate-filled little sac of pus, and you deserve
everything you get.
Susan Cohen
> news:catamont-1D0D9E...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net...
> > In article <04abav00uf8hivke2...@4ax.com>,
> > Wally Cleaver <Wally_...@mayfield.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gloves are off, Fat Boy. Truce is over. I've tried to pity your sorry
> > ass, I even tried to care when you mentioned your various infirmities
> > and health problems.
> >
> > But you're a slimy, hate-filled little sac of pus, and you deserve
> > everything you get.
>
> He's been faking Ken McVay's daughter for weeks now.
> Why haven't they managed to get him put away, I wonder...?
>
> Susan
Wally Cleaver
<catamont-1D0D9E...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Gloves are off, Fat Boy.
<"Thar she blows-- Dale the Whale" http://www.io.com/~patrick/vegas.html>
>Truce is over. I've tried to pity your sorry
>ass, I even tried to care when you mentioned your various infirmities
>and health problems.
>
>But you're a slimy, hate-filled little sac of pus, and you deserve
>everything you get.
>
>Sara
Same to you- you perjurer! You can't stand to have your hyp;ocrisy exposed.
BTW get your mentor to re-file his same kook lawsuit in the proper jurisdiction
and see how quick you two get what you deserve! Perjury, false swearing, and
making death threats are criminal offenses in my jurisdiction.
Tavish
Dale Patrick
>Gloves are off, Fat Boy.
Fat Boy? You would not be able to insult me with such abuse if it weren't for a
lie your mentor, a "matriarchal copulator", started when he lied about what my
medical records stated. For a fact Yale F. Edeiken is known as "Tubby" and "The
Waddler" by many people who have to tolerate his vile evil presence at Lehigh
County Courthouse in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Here is what another person posted
about "Tubby" Edeiken:
"Tubby has no respect from the legal community and as a whole they wish he'd
just waddle away."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=20000704143439.5399.qmail%40nym.alias.net&rnum=4
From: SoloP...@nym.alias.net
Subject: Yale _Tubby_ Edeiken
Date: 2000/07/04
Message-ID: <200007041434...@nym.alias.net>
My former attorney who shits like you and Tubby defamed also confirmed Yale is
walking sack of fat and sweat as well as another attorney, a member of law
enforcement, and a county clerk. You pigs have to fabricate lies in order to
attack your opposition BUT people who think you are sub-humans need only tell
the truth.
Back to you referring to me as "Fat Boy"-- for a fat slob who "Phist Phuks"
herself and didn't even bathe and wash her hair for an e-zine magazine article
you shouldn't be calling anyone "Fat" especially when you have never seen them
before BUT I know what you look like and I know you are a Fat Sow as these
pictures prove (care to deny these are your fatness images?):
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
Captioned with: "Sara Salzman has seen the ugly side of the Internet."
Sara is THE UGLY SIDE OF THE INTERNET! :-)
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
The above photos are of the sow who has the temerity to call me Fat Boy!
I want everyone to look at those photos and imagine that beast "Phist Phuking"
herself as she freely admitted in public forum as Sara Schwartz (her previous
married name):
From: ssch...@infinet.com aka Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
From: ssch...@infinet.com aka Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
<end/quote>
Everyone remember the above and view these images again and imagine the sow
Fisting herself:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
HOW GRUESOME!!!! Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeey
>But you're a slimy, hate-filled little sac of pus, and you deserve
>everything you get.
The same could be said of you Sara "The Fist" Salzman. You can't honestly say
all the pogroms etc against you obnoxious Yids were the fault of the majority of
mankind. Nazis only came to power because people allowed it because of what your
kind were doing in Germany and with the Jews spreading communism and anarchy
everywhere. SHOWTIME Network aired "OUT OF THE ASHES", a Holocaust movie,
starring Christine Lahti and it was brought out the U.S. State Department knew
of the concentration camps and what was going on but chose to ignore it. Ed
Asner hosted a Multimedia Presentation titled "Auschwitz and the Allies" and it
also dealt with the "fact" all of the Allies knew of the camps etc. but did
nothing. Also brought out was boatloads of Jews were turned away by one nation
right after another! Have you ever wondered why Nazis were given the amount of
approval they got (the allies only declared war on Hitler AFTER he attacked
Poland) or have you wondered why one nation after another had pogroms against
your tribe? Are you going to be in denial and deny that YOUR people may be the
root cause rather than inbred hate and intolerance by Gentiles? You fellows
filed a $40 billion lawsuit against the U.S. for not doing anything about "The
Holocaust" by letting the death camps operate when they could have bombed the
rail lines etc. Care to deny it?
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=k1lmot8o6a19egaah7qcnb0rc88kn0irmi%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Holocaust survivors sue US for $40-billion -- JTA | News at a Glance |
March 28, 2001 5:53:15 PM ET R 8
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:23:28 -0500
Message-ID: <k1lmot8o6a19egaah...@4ax.com>
"JTA | News at a Glance | March 28, 2001 5:53:15 PM ET
A group of Holocaust survivors filed a lawsuit seeking $40 billion in
damages from the United States for not bombing the Auschwitz concentration
camp during World War II, according to the French news agency Agence
France-Presse. The survivors contended that the failure to bomb the camp
contributed to the genocide of millions of Jews." <END>
The same lawsuit is mirrored at:
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7007
This is G o o g l e's cache of http://jewishtribalreview.org/hlct.htm
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:RfqbsjHG5l4C:jewishtribalreview.org/hlct.htm+Holocaust+survivors+%2440+billion+Auschwitz+concentration&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8
"Survivors' Lawsuit Seeks 40 Billion from U.S. for Not Bombing Auschwitz.
[Jewish] Forward, April 6, 2001
"In a bizarre addition to the Holocaust-related suits now winding their way
through the courts, two German-Jewish survivors of the Auschwitz death camp are
suing the American government for its failure to bomb the camp..."
Read and get the sense of the above and try to figure out why even a liberal
bastion such as France is having increasing incidents of "anti-Semitism" as even
the nauseatingly Liberal Gentiles are getting their fill of you vile and
obnoxious Yids:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=18md3v45o6e4vj61fvdbleb13g46okp2en%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Anti-semitism on rise worldwide aka Poll indicates anti-Semitism on
rise among young Americans (The Washington Post via Omaha World-Herald)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:25:23 -0600
Message-ID: <18md3v45o6e4vj61f...@4ax.com>
(Excerpts)
Poll indicates anti-Semitism on rise among young Americans THE WASHINGTON POST
Anti-Semitism may be increasing in the United States as more young adults
express bigoted views about Jews than do middle-aged Americans, according to a
national poll by the Institute for Jewish and Community Research in San
Francisco... there is growing concern on the part of people like Melchior, now
an Israeli official, that initiatives spreading through Europe are gaining
popularity because of deep-seated anti-Semitism manifesting itself in many other
ways, from Belgium to Germany to France and Switzerland. On Saturday, unknown
assailants hurled a Molotov cocktail at a synagogue in the Belgian port city of
Antwerp...
http://www.cnsnews.com/ForeignBureaus/archive/200301/FOR20030109e.html
Anti-Semitism Rising in France
By Eva Cahen
CNSNews.com Correspondent
January 09, 2003
Paris (CNSNews.com) - As Jewish leaders raise alarms over an increase in
anti-Semitism in France, figures showed that in 2002, French emigration to
Israel more than doubled...
http://www.adl.org/presrele/ASInt_13/3687_13.asp
Press Release Anti-Semitism-International
ADL Outraged at Growing
Anti-Semitism in France
New York, NY, October 16, 2000 The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today expressed
outrage at the growing wave of anti-Semitism in France...
~~End of GOOGLE Archival Excerpt~~
Now back to what you stated:
>But you're a slimy, hate-filled little sac of pus, and you deserve
>everything you get.
You and your obnoxious Yids just may get what you deserve soon if the world
trend continues and believe me- B'nai Brith and ADL are very fearful YET they
allow you Yids to constantly be rude to Gentiles and when they speak back they
are called Nazis/anti-semites etc. Non-Jews are getting fed up with the
hypocrisy and double standards. When the shit hits the fan don't look to me for
any comfort-- I will do as the Allies did and turn my back on you as history
repeats itself because YOU Yids deserve everything you get!
BTW everyone read my sig line to get insight on the crazy Yid who started the
Fatboy smear.
Need I say more?
Tavish
---
Dale Patrick
<catamont-1D0D9E...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Fat Boy
Sara "Fatress" Salzman: Quintessential FAT in the flesh:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
Dale Patrick
<catamont-94B03A...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Since you like posting DL information:
First, my phone number is NOT on my driver's license thus you are a liar!
Second, I have told Patrick L. Humphrey repeatedly to STOP posting where I live
which he did not stop doing!
Third, I got tired of his "Fat" remarks and seeing how he made his personal info
"public knowledge" as well as proof his wife is fat I decided to post what his
web site shows-- such as:
http://www.io.com/~patrick/vegas.html
http://www.io.com/~patrick/address.html
Ny confidential information was NOT "public knowledge" and my enemies only found
it out because an evil filthy vermin subpoenaed it from my ISP and then
distributed it!
>Name:Bradbury, Robert Scott
>License Number: 006027337
>Address: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>Contact Telephone Number: XXXXXXXX
>Date of Birth: March 8 1950
>Gender: Male
>Race: White
>Height: 6' 2
In the spirit of "Graduated Retaliation" I now reciprocate what you did to me
when you did so without any moral justification. If you don't like it then tough
you hypocrite. You post it again and I will do something which will really make
you squeal like a stuck pig and it will be fully legal and well within my legal
rights (and moral rights)!
Sara "The Fist" Salzman
4015 S Killarney Way
Aurora, CO 80013
303-617-9412
>Since you believe a poem written in 1989 is a "fact,"
Another lie-- you posted it in 1995 as this proves:
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
You wrote it and that is a fact. Want to deny it? I have plenty of proof--
namely you squealing like a stuck pig!
>perhaps you'd like to address these:
I would be very glad to as I explained before-- What I posted were replies to
people who had called me a Nazi, shown hostility toward me but tenderness
towards Neo-Bolsheiks, e-mail bombed me, made death threats etc. I showed what
you posted in full context with not one word missing YET you being a thoroughly
disgusting pig who is dishonest still won't quote what I posted in context
because it would expose you for the evil lying pig you truly are!
BTW the following are the out of context versions porker swine submitted as
evidence against me. The matriarchal copulator didn't have the guts to quote me
in context BUT I will show the posts in context to expose you filth!
>On March 9, 1997:
>
> "Author: Billy Dale McTavish . . . .Vengeance is sweet and I know that
>the day will come when I'll get to see the sneak that did this to me
>get a thorough interrogation from Bruno! I will love standing there
>watching him peel your skin off layer by layer with his lash and ever so
>methodically. Your screams of pain will fall on deaf ears. I will take
>extreme delight in watching the foam come spewing out of your vile mouth
>as Bruno gives you another! Do not worry for I will not let him kill
>you. You must heal up and become well- so the process can start right
>back over again to be repeated again and again. You will see no end to
>your pain! I solemnly promise the day will come when the tables will
>turn. Destiny will place you at my feet and you will pray for death and
>it will by no means come. /s/ Tavish."
In context:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=33236EE5.252%40phoenix.net&rnum=1
From: Billy Dale McTavish <tav...@phoenix.net>
Subject: COWARDS! SNEAKY VERMIN!!
Date: 1997/03/09
Message-ID: <33236E...@phoenix.net>#1/1
Organization: McTavish Family Enterprises
Reply-To: tav...@phoenix.net
Newsgroups:
alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
You are cowards and sneaks that E-Mail Bomb.
You hit me Feb 21, Mar 7, and twice today!
You only make it very easy to despise you!
Have fun because I am getting a new E-mail
account tomorrow and it will not be
published.
Vengeance is sweet and I know that the day will come when I'll get to
see the sneak that did this to me get a thorough interrogation from
Bruno! I will love standing there watching him peel your skin off layer
by layer with his lash and ever so methodically. Your screams of pain
will fall on deaf ears. I will take extreme delight in watching the foam
come spewing out of your vile mouth as Bruno gives you another! Do not
worry for I will not let him kill you. You must heal up and become well-
so the process can start right back over again to be repeated again and
again. You will see no end to your pain! I solemnly promise the day will
come when the tables will turn. Destiny will place you at my feet and
you will pray for death and it will by no means come.
Tavish
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
The above was made in reply to e-mail bombing NOT like your S&M bondage posts.
Big difference you S&M bondage pig!
>On April 15, 1997:
>
> "I do believe that Bruno would derive great pleasure in applying his
>craft to Mr. Keren. Yes Bruno is from the old Bavarian School of
>inquisitive acquisition. Bruno knows how to stimulate every nerve but
>yet not do any sort of damage. Yes Bruno would spend hours in a cold
>dark damp dungeon with him. Bruno is a firm believer in the old adage:
>"No pain, no gain." :-) Mr. Keren will probably over react to Bruno BUT
>Bruno went back home to Bavaria a while back because certain ones in
>this ng hurt his feelings! He is a big dumb brute in the common sort of
>way but he's such a likable lug too! I may be able to persuade him to
>come back but I don't know. If I can get Bruno back then may be Gunther
>and Gerhardt may return too! They all claim that life is too hard for
>them in America with all of this hatred by Nizkooks running around. They
>say it reminds them of when the Communists ruled and how the Commies
>kept files on everyone. Reminds me of what commie East Germany used to
>be!"
In context:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=33558E55.4307%40phoenix.net&rnum=1
From: Doc Tavish <-----@phoenix.net>
Subject: Re: Crushed Brains (Re: crushed testicles)
Date: 1997/04/16
Message-ID: <33558E...@phoenix.net>#1/1
References: <334997c9...@news.gte.net> <01bc45aa$800e7800$117213cc@odin>
<E8nDL...@world.std.com> <01bc4acb$24eefd70$5f3d51cf@odin>
Organization: The McTavish Family Enterprises
Reply-To: -----@phoenix.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Anthony Sabatini wrote:
>
> Daniel Keren <dke...@world.std.com> wrote in article
> <E8nDL...@world.std.com>...
> > "Anthony Sabatini" <anth...@infobahnos.com> writes:
> >
> > # You are obviously forgetting the double-standard that is
> > # enforced against revisionism here.
> >
> > You're obviously confused. It is "revisionists" who use
> > a double standard.
>
> Now let's see the 'official' Holo-Clone (tm) reasoning for this from none other
> than our very own resident holocaust mythologist, little Danny Keren. <g>
>
> > You have Matt Giwer, who keeps screeching about freedom of
> > speech, yet posts an explicit threat to murder me, because
> > my opinion on a certain historical event is different from his.
>
> As usual, Keren is confused. He insists that, for some unfathomable reason,
> _he_ *knows* the _reasons_ behind someone's post. Danny, please provide proof
> that the _reason_ Mr. Giwer allegedly "threatened" you was due to "differing
> opinions". While you're at it, why not post some proof that I want to put
> Nizkorites in jail for the same reason. Failure to do so will prove beyond a
> shadow of a doubt that you are either:
>
> A) Simply insane.
> B) A blatant and willful liar.
> C) The average, run-of-the-mill idiot.
> D) Possessed of some hitherto unproven psychic ability.
> E) A mid-ranking shaman of the holocaust faith (tm) that will stop at nothing
> to promote pro-Zionist propaganda.
> F) One or more of the above.
>
> Personally, my money's on F.
>
> > And you have Bellinger, who believes that millions of
> > German civilians were murdered after the war, although
> > there is ZERO physical and documentary evidence for
> > this; and yet he rejects the Holocaust, for which there
> > is a great deal of such evidence.
>
> Why don't you post some evidence that Mr. Bellinger "rejects the holocaust"
> outright?
>
> > And you have the "great sabatini", aka "little dictator",
> > who also screeches about freedom of speech, yet wants to
> > throw the members of the Nizkor project in jail [1].
>
> LOL!
>
> > What a wacky, crazy bunch, these "revisionists" are.
>
> But not nearly as "wacky" as those silly Holo-Clone (tm) propagandists, priests
> & priestesses, professional 'survivors', and other holocaust-related
> ne'er-do-wells. The proof is at Deja News and the Nitz-kore Holo-Clone
> Assimilation Centre (tm)!
>
> [.sig and little Danny's favorite quote (his silly footnote -- see above)
> snipped]
>
> Silly Keren, "tricks are for kids!" (r) ;-)
Tavish replies:
I do believe that Bruno would derive great pleasure in applying his
craft to Mr. Keren. Yes Bruno is from the old Bavarian School of
inquisitive acquisition. Bruno knows how to stimulate every nerve but
yet not do any sort of damage. Yes Bruno would spend hours in a cold
dark damp dungeon with him. Bruno is a firm believer in the old adage:
"No pain, no gain." :-) Mr. Keren will probably over react to Bruno BUT
Bruno went back home to Bavaria a while back because certain ones in
this ng hurt his feelings! He is a big dumb brute in the common sort of
way but he's such a likable lug too! I may be able to persuade him to
come back but I don't know. If I can get Bruno back then may be Gunther
and Gerhardt may return too! They all claim that life is too hard for
them in America with all of this hatred by Nizkooks running around. They
say it reminds them of when the Communists ruled and how the Commies
kept files on everyone. Reminds me of what commie East Germany used to
be!
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
A post made out of frustration with all of the wallowing in misery you Jews and
toadies do. People get tired of the misery posts about how Jews were mis-treated
etc. and how you vermin always try to act like you're being picked on when it is
you shits who are harassing people and making evil false accusations.
>On May 2, 1998:
>
>"I just wish these dumb asses would realize that they can't get away
>with this. I'll send a copy to tavish-central, a copy to the Houston
>Branch of the FBI and a copy to the nut cake's ISP. Now people can
>understand why I positively abhor the majority of Kikes I encounter.
>Bruno at the moment is muttering about how nice it would be if he would
>be allowed to interrogate this person. I agree that Bruno should be able
>to apply his talents. I could picture Bruno being slow and very
>methodical too! :-)"
In context and notice the death threats made which you vermin ignore!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=354b9506.79026646%40news.tavish-central.net&rnum=1
From: doc_t...@DELETEME.bigfoot.com (Dr. Morbius Tavish)
Subject: Two Death Threats to Tavish for Today - Off to the FBI These Shall Go!
Date: 1998/05/02
Message-ID: <354b9506...@news.tavish-central.net>#1/1
Organization: McTavish Informational Services Worldwide
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:55:08 CDT
Reply-To: doc_t...@DELETEME.bigfoot.com
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Notice the following and I have not doctored one word so that all the
checksums will match when the FBI investigates these. I was accused by
a certain person of sending a death threat BUT he altered what I sent
so the checksums did not match. A trick that most don't know.
This bastard's checksums will positively match because as I said- I've
doctored not one word!
E-Mail death threat Number 1:
Return-Path: <ku...@idir.net>
Received: from angel.flotsam.com (angel.flotsam.com [205.186.149.2])
by voyager.c-com.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28950
for <phi...@phoenix.net>; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:07:40 -0500 (CDT)
Posted-Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:07:40 -0500 (CDT)
Received-Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:07:40 -0500 (CDT)
X-Cmta: wGWrSr0yeJug6
Received: from cafe3.flotsam.com ([205.186.149.12]) by
angel.flotsam.com
(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c)
ID# 0-46140U200L2S100) with ESMTP id AAA245
for <phi...@phoenix.net>; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:26:42 -0400
Message-ID: <35491469...@idir.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:16:42 -0400
From: Testy Test <ku...@idir.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: phi...@phoenix.net
Subject: jew50
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
tavish, you'll be dead by the year 2000 you filthy scumbag
E-Mail death threat Number 2:
Return-Path: <ku...@idir.net>
Received: from angel.flotsam.com (angel.flotsam.com [205.186.149.2])
by voyager.c-com.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29360
for <phi...@phoenix.net>; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:10:11 -0500 (CDT)
Posted-Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:10:11 -0500 (CDT)
Received-Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:10:11 -0500 (CDT)
X-Cmta: wGWrSr0yeJug6
Received: from cafe3.flotsam.com ([205.186.149.12]) by
angel.flotsam.com
(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c)
ID# 0-46140U200L2S100) with ESMTP id AAA249
for <phi...@phoenix.net>; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:29:14 -0400
Message-ID: <35491501...@idir.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:19:13 -0400
From: Testy Test <ku...@idir.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: phi...@phoenix.net
Subject: israelis
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-UIDL: f23a2b905ad48adfe51a2e3bdf7644d2
Tavish---somebody will bash your fucking head open with a baseball bat
within 6 months, you pig! (maybe sooner)
<<Tavish comment April 24, 2003: A similar baseball bat death threat was made by
Yale F. Edeiken personally against me on December 14, 1999 as documented in this
archive beyond any fault:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=gsk76vcng7f0cugmimalglbno6bmgmslhk%404ax.com&rnum=2
Subject: Yale F. Edeiken Admits Sending Death Threats Over The Internet is a
Federal Crime (Which He Has Done!)
Message-ID: <gsk76vcng7f0cugmi...@4ax.com> End comment>>
~~~~~~~~ END ~~~~~~~~~
I just wish these dumb asses would realize that they can't get away
with this. I'll send a copy to tavish-central, a copy to the Houston
Branch of the FBI and a copy to the nut cake's ISP. Now people can
understand why I positively abhor the majority of Kikes I encounter.
Bruno at the moment is muttering about how nice it would be if he
would be allowed to interrogate this person. I agree that Bruno should
be able to apply his talents. I could picture Bruno being slow and
very methodical too! :-)
Doc Tavish
................................................................................................................
"Eye for eye, wound for wound, and blow for blow..(Ex 21:24,25)" Jews
haven't received one thing they haven't already dealt out to others.
NWT cited above for scripture.
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Big difference when quoted in context. I quoted you in context but you are as
despicable as the other Yids when it comes to the lack of honesty (and fair
play).
> " . . . . . Mr. Van Alstine is a saboteur of Nizkor and that is all we
>need to bring hin in for an especially vigorous interrogation! He will
>not be so cocky after Bruno works with him. Don't worry Bruno has never
>killed anyone yet and he is a master at his craft. Bruno could
>rightfully be called a master of pain for he knows how to work every
>nerve and fiber to achieve the results desired with the very least
>amount of tissue damage. The man is devoted to his work as a true
>artisan!"
In context:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=32E59328.33AA%40heil.net&rnum=1
From: Reinhardt Heydrich <si...@heil.net>
Subject: Re: The incorrigible Joel Rosenberg
Date: 1997/01/21
Message-ID: <32E593...@heil.net>#1/1
references: <01bc04e6$f498b910$417213cc@server> <5brj5g$n...@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
<01bc07f7$5cab7bb0$1a7213cc@server>
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
organization: SA- SD- Gestapo
mime-version: 1.0
reply-to: si...@heil.net
newsgroups: alt.revisionism
x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U)
Anthony Sabatini wrote:
>
> Richard J. Green <r...@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> wrote in article
> <5brj5g$n...@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>...
> > Anthony Sabatini <anth...@infobahnos.com> wrote:
> >
> > >As a well-known and proven liar, anything that Mark Van Alstine says
> > >must be carefully examined
Yes, yes Herr Van Alstine must be very carefully examined using tried
and true techniques. Herr Van Alstine will talk and he will confess all
of his lies! Bruno will methodically interrogate him. He will talk,
they all talk regardless of how defiant they think they are. We will
break his will and he will be a quivering mass of humanity yes?
> > >for evidence of further mistruths. His virulent spewing
His screams for Bruno to stop will be the only thing this swine will
spew. We have our ways in Berlin.
> > >of stupidity, the act of a mindless or merely ignorant person, is
> > >often laced with holier-than-thou statements and blatant 'my way or no
> > >way' assertions. For further evidence of Mark's asinine behavior, please
> > >check out DejaNews (http://www.dejanews.com) and/or AltaVista
> > >(http://www.altavista.com).
We already have many files on said criminal Van Alstine and he will
eventually have to answer the charges.
> > Mr. Sabatini,
> >
> > Would you be so kind as to refer me to specific proof that Mr. Van
> > Alstine has lied. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Mr. Van Alstine is a saboteur of Nizkor and that is all we need to bring
him in for an especially vigorous interrogation! He will not be so cocky
after Bruno works with him. Don't worry Bruno has never killed anyone
yet and he is a master at his craft. Bruno could rightfully be called a
master of pain for he knows how to work every nerve and fiber to achieve
the results desired with the very least amount of tissue damage. The man
is devoted to his work as a true artisan!
Reinhardt Heydrich
Security Service
>
> I've already posted it, and we even discussed the matter via private
> e-mail. You disagreed. Too bad for you.
>
> [.sig snipped]
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Big deal. Sardonic humor directed toward cry babies who call everyone a Nazi who
disagrees with them. I bet you were fisting yourself at the time too! Be honest
now. "Bruno" turns you on. You are just jealous because he wouldn't Dominate you
and do to you what your Master did! :-) I showed Bruno your current whines and
asked him if he would be your new Master and he said to me: "Tav, I served in
Viet Nam and ate dead animals riddled with maggots when I was hungry and ate
boogers from dead VC's noses for desert but the sight of seeing that dirty beast
staked out in an X wanting to get her breasts whipped makes me want to puke my
guts up." [Lurkers see the "Master of the Ropes" poem below to get the impact of
what is going on so far.]
Bruno saw your photos:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
and the thought of seeing you naked made him nauseous! You will have to stay
with your old "Master of the Ropes" or get Yale to put on his speedo and whip
you! :-)
> "Why don't you identify yourself then? Bruno has already picked the
>lash he will use in my interrogation of you. He at first opted for his
>short fat bull whip. This whip does not cut the flesh but it makes
>extremely painful throbbing welts that only diminish in pain over a few
>days. He has chosen his custom stage coach style whip that is nearly
>twenty feet long. Each stroke is just like a hot knife hitting butter.
>This whip n each stroke cuts beyond the subcutaneous epidermal layers.
>He'll literally peel you like an onion. Each stroke of this lash will
>feel just like having a white hot wire streak across your back and
>buttocks. Bruno is an artisan at his craft and he most eagerly awaits
>hoisting you up in manacles to administer the "truth serum." I will
>relish watching you flop around like a fish. Pleasant dreams!"
In context and in reply to a coward who forged posts:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=LilY3.2546%2416.305770%40news.flash.net&rnum=2&filter=0
From: "Tavish" <doc_t...@NOSPAMdanetwork.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Information I'll Share
Date: 1999/11/16
Message-ID: <LilY3.2546$16.3...@news.flash.net>#1/1
References: <Se1Y3.1862$16.2...@news.flash.net>
<1999111615...@cotse.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset = US-ASCII
X-Complaints-To: ab...@flash.net
X-Trace: news.flash.net 942793003 209.30.68.235 (Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:56:43 CST)
Organization: None
Mime-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: doc_t...@NOSPAMdanetwork.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:56:43 CST
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
--
On 16-Nov-1999, "Tavish" <anon...@cotse.com> wrote:
A "False Tavish" indeed!
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:56:24 -0500 (EST)
> Message-ID: <1999111615...@cotse.com>
> From: "Tavish" <anon...@cotse.com>
> Subject: Re: Personal Information I'll Share
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
> Organization: Church of the Swimming Elephant
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@cotse.com
> X-Comments: This post came from an anonymous source.
> References: <Se1Y3.1862$16.2...@news.flash.net>
> X-Mail-To-News-Contact: ab...@zedz.net
> Path: news.flash.net!nntp.flash.net!news.algonet.se!
> algonet!newsfeed.icl.net!news.itconsult.net!news.monster.org!
> sewer-output!mail2news
> Xref: news.flash.net alt.politics.white-power:362845
>
> Bullshit Pussy Boy! You are a loser pussy bigot! A 10 year
> old girl could whip your ass and a 6 month old snail has
> more sense than you. Just be glad I'm playing with your
> feeble mind. If you try to show your ass again and complain
> about me using your name, I'll show you what else I can do.
> MORON!
Why don't you identify yourself then? Bruno has already picked
the lash he will use in my interrogation of you. He at first opted
for his short fat bull whip. This whip does not cut the flesh but
it makes extremely painful throbbing welts that only diminish
in pain over a few days. He has chosen his custom stage coach
style whip that is nearly twenty feet long. Each stroke is just like
a hot knife hitting butter. This whip on each stroke cuts beyond
the subcutaneous epidermal layers. He'll literally peel you like
an onion. Each stroke of this lash will feel just like having a white
hot wire streak across your back and buttocks. Bruno is an artisan
at his craft and he most eagerly awaits hoisting you up in manacles
to administer the "truth serum." I will relish watching you flop around
like a fish. Pleasant dreams!
Herr Doktor Tavische
--digsig
Authentic Doc Tavish
191xllxyGtVQwy0mtCiBjivyX+knCUXYwdRtptdrtqb
IbX8epLw/rkYZHmgocsFGnSa9OdKYEHbzgZ3eOSw
4yiTs6bAKh+YD2KVlq++rHkl5zYPzGGAWGKmxe/aW
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Why don't you filth have the civility to quote me in context? I am going to
quote you in context at the bottom of this very post-- I promise!
>" Herr Rosenberg so very nice of you to slither out and play tonight!
>We all see that you have not for once changed your tone yes? You will
>change your tune very soon! They all do; believe me they all do! We have
>a nice damp dungeon all prepared for you in Berlin. We will talk at
>great length and get to the very root of your attitude yes? I personally
>will not let Bruno interrogate you too long no!"
In context and made to a vermin who had been repeatedly calling me a Nazi.
Remember you vermin were calling me Nazi BEFORE the Bruno posts-- that is fact!
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=32E2E4...@giebel.net&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Re: Jewish vindictiveness
From: Reinhardt Heydrich <si...@heil.net>
Date: 1997/01/19
Message-Id: <32E2E4...@giebel.net>
Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
> kble...@ix.netcom.com(Kenneth T. Blewitt) writes:
>
> >Andrew Mathis (who posts on soc.culture israel and sco.culture.jewish)
> >wrote:
> >>The fun thing to do with a post like this, besides tracking down Matt
> >>Giwer's website and getting a look and [at?] how incredibly ugly he is
> >>....
> > The tone that we see above is not an isolated instance - to which I
> >can attest personally. Though all my posts on alt.revisionism have
> >been civil I have been called "liar," "hypocrite," "scum," and on and
> >on.
>
> Well, but you can't complain when folks flatter you so, can you?
Herr Rosenberg so very nice of you to slither out and play tonight! We
all see that you have not for once changed your tone yes? You will
change your tone very soon! They all do; believe me they all do! We have
a nice damp dungeon all prepared for you in Berlin. We will talk at
great length and get to the very root of your attitude yes? I personally
will not let Bruno interrogate you too long no!
Reinhardt Heydrich
Security Department
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel Rosenberg | For news about upcoming books, | My opinions are mine.
> jo...@winternet.com | finger jo...@winternet.com | Whose are yours?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
>"You'll be squealing like stuck pig when we shove the rotisserie skewer
>where the sun don't shine on April 20th! You'll cook quite well over an
>open fire! You'll probably give us all gas BUT that is why we'll have
>plenty of Tagment on hand. Burp! Bruno says that he knows how to
>tenderize you too. I think he wants to use his 20 foot whip! Ouch!:
That was posted to a kook who called himself Mel Goldstein and I have addressed
the hypocrisy of you Jooos quoting the above out of context in this post:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=72b10v4pl0se4ptvlih9h61h6otmu5rhql%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Re: Scot Bradbury's Fantasy of Cannibalism: Inside the Mind of A
Fascist
Message-ID: <72b10v4pl0se4ptvl...@4ax.com>
References: <p7rvvucbjh6eifsr6...@4ax.com>
Date: 18 Dec 2002 17:19:55 GMT
The above post proves how you filthy vermin quote me out of context YET you
filth gloss over what your kind does. That is hypocrisy and those double
standards are why more and more people hate your kind's friggin' guts! When you
have to resort to out of context quotes etc. to smear people and file lawsuits
filled with numerous fabrications such as these two archives prove then you
justify the actions taken against you filth by one nation after another
throughout time!
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=&selm=3bmv4vc9u4kh2qs4v84aek0qsbfhb5eul8%404ax.com
Subject: Test this, David Michael aka Ken McVay's "Edeiken-v-Bradbury.C1" Is
Filled With Lies and Perjury...
Message-ID: <3bmv4vc9u4kh2qs4v...@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=d0ic0v81gdhrd1djqe4k4k2mnvq4c4sdi5%404ax.com&rnum=4
Subject: "Criminally Perjured Sworn Testimony" at the Web Site of Peter
Outerbridge aka Paul Kneisel (He Supports Lies So He Can Use Them To Smear Me)
Message-ID: <d0ic0v81gdhrd1djq...@4ax.com>
> "I can only say that Bruno knows that this happened and right now
>he is outside practicing with his whip. Her looks mighty g-d damned
>furious in the hot Texas sun cracking that whip. Damn it sounds like a
>30' 06 going off each time he pops that thing. I'd hate to "Count 25"
>for him! Yes, indeedy!! :-) Doc Tavish Singing "Our Day Will Come!"
In context:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=356b3cd6.91173259%40news.phoenix.net&rnum=8&filter=0
Subject: Hagbard (?) Threatens Me by E-Mail - Say It is Not so Little Tavish (my
cat)!
Date: 1998/05/26
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From: pe...@webtv.net (p H)
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:07:55 -0400
To: doc_t...@bigfoot.com
Subject: doc tavish?
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You think you're a pretty clever bastard don't you?
You'll be dead very soon!
~~~ End of Another E-Mail Threat ~~~
Here is a recent Hagbard post:
http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=356388360
Subject: Whats up Doc?
From: Hagb...@webtv.net (Hagbard Celine)
Date: 1998/05/25
Message-ID: <6kc83c$g0p$1...@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
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Path:
excalibur.flash.net!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!
news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail
From: Hagb...@webtv.net (Hagbard Celine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Whats up Doc?
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:00:27 -0500
Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Lines: 11
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Xref: excalibur.flash.net alt.politics.white-power:140792
I just wanted to say HOWDY to my dear friend Doc Tavish.
Hows life been treating your ol' hate mongering ass?
You know your posts lack the spark and sizzle of the ole days.
I know you, you know me, we're a big family.
=85nanner=A9=99
Thule Sucks
~~~~~ End of Pitiful Posting ~~~~~
I can only say that Bruno knows that this happened and right now he is
outside practicing with his whip. Her looks mighty g-d damned furious
in the hot Texas sun cracking that whip. Damn it sounds like a 30' 06
going off each time he pops that thing. I'd hate to "Count 25" for
him! Yes, indeedy!! :-)
Doc Tavish Singing "Our Day Will Come!"
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
What I posted has a very different meaning when the post is shown in full
context but lying filth prefer to leave out what elicits such responses!
You swine think you can harass people and get away with it and when someone
takes issue then you swine act like you are being mistreated. No wonder why
people looked the other way when a certain "Master Race" was having its "fun"
with your kind. It's not like all those people thought the "Master Race" was
anything good BUT they hated you pigs more and that is why the Poles, Romanians.
Latvians, Ukrainians etc. eagerly volunteered to help a certain group hunt you
swine down. People get tired of YOUR filthy smears and your projected "I am
better than you and I can treat my inferiors anyway I want" attitude.
> "Bruno eagerly awaits the day when he is able to peel your kind like
>onions with his lash. I could just see the sweat and blood spray when
>Bruno lays on the flay. In your case I wouldn't want him to damage your
>hide. I want a new shade for my floor lamp and a new holster for my
>Desert Eagle pistol. Bruno would, in your case, use electricity and the
>various exploitations of body cavities with large blunt objects. :-) . .
>. . .Mazel Tob you witch. /s/ Doc Tavish.
Replied to an anonymous post! Big deal-- so sue me. That's right-- your fellow
vermin did and he lost!!
>Now, tell me again how we can't judge you by these because they were
>"fantasies."
They were replies to vermin who had defamed me/harassed me or were pathetic
whiners who constantly dwelled on misery. Your posts on the other hand which I
will quote in full context were for titillation and perverted sexual
gratification and there is a major difference Sara "The Fist" Salzman!
>Then explain why you keep reposting that poem.
Which one?
BTW:
"You know, you are sounding more and more like a 5-year-old. Grow up and
ignore the insults. That's what adults do."
-From: Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
-Subject: Re: DALE ANN HUMPHREY
-Date: 22 Apr 2003 03:22:39 GMT
-Message-ID: <catamont-9B6270...@news.spellbndr.com>
>Sara
A collection of Sara "The Fist" Salzman works in full context (I deleted not one
word-- my critics do not observe the same courtesy!):
Xref:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=pnoc4uo6q33vrai5ibdq7jveuncnqga8uo%404ax.com&rnum=10
Subject: UNEXPURGATED! In Sara Salzman's Own Words! Her S&M Torture & Bondage
Fantasies R_16
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:37:03 -0600
Message-ID: <pnoc4uo6q33vrai5i...@4ax.com>
>>sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com
>
For a fact that Message ID yields:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=%20&as_umsgid=sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com&num=20&hl=en
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect
~~End of EXACT and Precise GOOGLE Archive~~
Everyone be sure to read Sara's recipe for "Fist F*cking" further down in this
group of archives!! BTW can anyone imagine a beast like this:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
"Fist F*cking" herself. I could drive my Jeep up in her and park it! :-)
Here is more from Pig Sara Salzman:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=1&selm=sschwartz-0902950703090001%40p24.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: F. E. Campbell dead
Date: 9 Feb 1995 11:59:22 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <sschwartz-090...@p24.infinet.com>
References: <sschwartz-060...@p01.infinet.com>
<47.266...@hedonism.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.infinet.com
In article <47.266...@hedonism.com>, bill....@hedonism.com (Bill
Majors) wrote:
> Ummm...well here I go betraying my ignorance. What has Geoffrey Merrick
> written. I tend to remember stories, not authors. In fact had I not met
> Frank I would not have realized who he was except that his name was as
> prominant as the title of the books.
>
I don't know much about him, except that he published a series of hardcore
bondage books called the Tyler Series. They were wonderful! I'll try and
dig up the publisher and get back to you.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=2&selm=sschwartz-0502951800290001%40p55.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What is power? (was Re: Power Imbalance v. Power Exchange)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 18:00:29 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p55.infinet.com>
References: <1995Jan27.2...@tantalus.clark.net>
<3gha46$p...@panix3.panix.com> <1995Jan30....@tantalus.clark.net>
<3gj06b$n...@crl9.crl.com> <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p55.infinet.com
In article <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>, ver...@crl.com (Janet W. Hardy) wrote:
>
> Quick straw poll here: How many people have ever felt totally,
> completely safe during any S/M scene -- safeword or no, light or heavy,
> D/S or sensation-only?
Verdant:
I hate to muddle the semantics further, but...
safe? You mean safe that my Master won't break my leg or suffocate me to
the point of death in a scene?
100%. Period. I know my Master would never cause tha kind of damage.
Safe, as in not getting hurt, or not getting hurt MORE thn I'd LIKE to accept?
Certianly not 100%. Mastercat is always pushing limits, and pushing me to
the edge or slightly farther.
But safe in terms of not getting killed or left in bondage to die alone?
Absolutely 100%. And not only with my own Master, but I feel equally safe
with those other Dom(mes) he has had me play with.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an
excellent target.
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=4&selm=sschwartz-2202951845170001%40p00.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Sex slave looking for couple in D.C.
Message-ID: <sschwartz-220...@p00.infinet.com>
Date: 22 Feb 95 23:45:17 GMT
References: <3hutf0$k...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
<3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: p45.infinet.com
In article <3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>, (Mindy and Aaron Proietti) wrote:
> Hello Tim. My name is Mindy and I am 23 years old. My husband Aaron and I
> just got married and we are looking for some new excitement in the bedroom. We
> are very interested in your offer, and we would like to get to know you (all of
> you) better. Please write back with a full (and true) description of yourself.
> Hope to hear from you soon. Mindy and Aaron
Mindy:
If you're in Washington, you should join The Power Exchange. It's a local
BBS that's exclusively for SM folks. They're some of the best folks
around. We've met many of the people from the Board personally, and at the
parties they hold. I highly recommend it!
Sara
PS. Sorry to post this publicly. I couldn't respond to you via e-mail from
your address.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
THIS ONE IS A REAL SARA SALZMAN CLASSIC!!!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=6&selm=sschwartz-1102952319440001%40p01.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=7&selm=sschwartz-1102950819070001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Just read what Sara said: "I *did* state that fist fucking was not something I
had done very often, and merely wanted to impart my own (limited) experience."
and then look at her picture!
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
That is enough to blow your mind!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=8&selm=sschwartz-1102950812130001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: GREAT NEWS!!!
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:12:13 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
For those of you who weren't aware of it, SandMUtopia Guardian was on the
block. It looked like we were going to lose it for good.
However:
The Utopian Network (Adam Selene/Adam's Whips) has purchased it!
We've been talking to Gerry this weekend at Anything for Love here in
Columbus (Gerry = Jillian), and she says they have great plans for it!
It will be a quarterly at first, while they get the "hang" of publishing.
NO fiction, just informational articles, photographs, etc.
Lets cross fingers and wish them good luck!
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=9&selm=sschwartz-0902950732240001%40p24.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What makes someone li
Date: 9 Feb 1995 12:28:37 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sschwartz-090...@p24.infinet.com>
References: <9748WLTQK...@juris.com> <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.infinet.com
In article <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>, eigh...@cyberverse.com (Eightmeg) wrote:
> jmi...@juris.com wrote:
>
>
> : My point about most people being abused was merely a comment....it had
> : no point to make other than to inquire...
>
> My Domina and I have wondered the same thing. My experience is
> that I went to a BBS meeting for a small city and a large portion of the
> people there were, to my dismay, a very unbalanced, retarded looking
> abused lot. I sort of expected the people at an S&M club to be like
> that. But when I went to the S&M club, the people (generally) looked
> normal, bright, intelligent, balanced and attractive!
>
What small city? Those of us who live in small cities and who practise D&M
don't think of ourselves as unbalanced or retarded at all.
I believe a SERIOUS apology is needed here. This is a truly offensive post
to me, at least.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=11&selm=sschwartz-0502951451330001%40p21.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: BBS situation for comment
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:51:33 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
References: <3gup6u$7...@sundog.tiac.net> <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
In article <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>, gri...@tpe.ncm.com (Bob Grimes) wrote:
>
> The Power Exchange also has a dungeon avialable for members, but
> consenuality is not a problem. A submissive must accept a collar
> <thus consensuality> before the Dom who offered the collar can use
> that command and all other D/s commands.
>
Just to add a brief .02 here, not only is consensuality the basis for the
Dungeon on TPE, but the quality of the members also aids here. Just once,
I was addressed by a new member as "slut." Before I could even TYPE a
response, four other people on the Board had called this person (gently)
to task. I was impressed.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an
excellent target.
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Reading all of this makes me despise even more the swine who defend Pig Sara and
condemn us for pointing out the atmosphere she exposes her children to. I have
no doubts that Pig Sara's pervert husband had her daughter dress up as a
dominatrix and I bet Sara thought it was cute judging by how she is into S&M
as much as the above and the following posts show!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=12&selm=sschwartz-030295080500%40p09.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What's in a gag?
Followup-To: alt.sex.bondage
Date: 3 Feb 1995 13:00:46 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <sschwartz-0...@p09.infinet.com>
References: <3gl7t9$6a...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p09.infinet.com
In article <3gl7t9$6a...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, PEG...@prodigy.com
(Steven Phillips) wrote:
> My wife wants to top her very truculant husband but need help in the
> gagging. Any good sugestions will be used. Our attempts seem to always
> fail.
There are a number of household items that make excellent gags. A small
piece of sponge wrapped in a bandana and then knotted. A "whiffle" golf
ball (practise ball) with a piece of cloth through it. A pair of panties,
or pantyhose.
What specific problems are you encountering?
Perrrfect
--
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=13&selm=sschwartz-020295085409%40p17.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: YKINOKism revisited (was: Bigotry and Hatred. . .)
Followup-To: alt.sex.bondage
Date: 2 Feb 1995 13:56:13 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <sschwartz-0...@p17.infinet.com>
References: <233416Z...@anon.penet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p17.infinet.com
In article <233416Z...@anon.penet.fi>, an12...@anon.penet.fi
(Laurelie) wrote:
> 1. If you can say that the kinks of murder, rape, non-consensual
> abuse are not ok (and there are people with these kinks!), then
> you too, believe that all kinks are not created equal.
>
My only problem with an otherwise excellent, well-written, and beautifully
punctuated post is this. Murder is a KINK? Perhaps I need a definition here
of kink.
Granted, the dictionaries may not be too much help here, but the Webster's
9th defines it (in our context) as "2. a mental or physical peculiarity:
eccentricity, quirk, whim, 3. a clever unusual way of doing something"
I'm just not certain I can view murderers and rapsist as merely people with
different kinks than mine.
Can we get a good definition, Laurelie?
Thanks!
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Need I say more other than Sara "The Fist" Salzman had all of her archives
quoted above NUKED- so the GOOGLE URLs no longer work BUT I had the foresight to
save them all as web pages knowing full well the pig would pull them.
<<<End Of Xref GOOGLE Archive>>>
There are major differences in your S&M post when compared to my replies to
harassment etc. BUT admit it-- my Bruno posts probably got you all wet didn't
they Sara "The Fist" Salzman?
BTW Get Yale to re-file his malicious prosecution in the proper jurisdiction!
Tavish
Reginald Higham Cornelius McTavish
<catamont-94B03A...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>And by the way, Mr. Bradbury: If you keep whining and insisting that
>people are quoting things you said "years ago," or your "Bruno"
>fantasies, why do you continue to re-post something written in 1989 as
>"proof"?
Your "My Master Holds the Ropes Just So" was posted in 1995 NOT 1989!!
You're lying again!
>As you said, door swings both ways.
[...]
>Since you believe a poem written in 1989 is a "fact," perhaps you'd like
>to address these:
>
>On March 9, 1997:
>
> "Author: Billy Dale McTavish . . . .Vengeance is sweet and I know that
I have addressed them numerous times seeing how they were part of your fellow
evilness' malicious prosecution against (which I won and which you vermin are
still acting like losers and cry babies) me and which have been continually
thrown up in my face since YOU originally posted them way back then and to think
you are squealing like a stuck pig when I post your S&M Bondage just once in a
Blue Moon! You can't have two standards and as long as you evil shits keep
smearing me with out of context quotes from what I posted then I will keep
posting you in full context you hypocritical evil pig!
BTW I replied again to the chickenshit quoting me out of context for the
umpteenth time in this post.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=nnfeav4p0qkau6atmsquhh54d4ail17j6p%404ax.com&rnum=4&filter=0
Subject: Sara "The Fist" Salzman Won't Quote Me in Context BUT I Quote Her in
Full Context!! aka Re: Time to Celebrate -SECRET OF ADOLF HITLER
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:35:31 -0500
Message-ID: <nnfeav4p0qkau6atm...@4ax.com>
When vile shit has to resort to quoting me out of context and not showing WHY I
made such posts then I know I have won my argument and I, unlike a hypocritical
pig such as you, have left my posts intact but you NUKED yours. Don't worry Sara
"The Fist" Salzman-- I archived them all locally before you got to them and I
will be reposting them at will every time any of you vermin try to defame me
with out of context quotes.
Now go give that fist a real workout!
How about these winners?
<START>
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=7&selm=sschwartz-1102950819070001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
<STOP>
I don't know about the above two-- this is your masterpiece:
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect
<END>
The words just don't live up to your pictures!
Sara "The Submissive" Salzman aka Sara Schwartz:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
TTFN hypocrite!
Tavish
>Sara
Susan Cohen
"Scotty" <RHC...@tavish.org> wrote in message
news:okbfavo11vl2j0dbv...@4ax.com...
> On 23 Apr 2003 16:15:55 GMT,
> <catamont-94B03A...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
> <cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >And by the way, Mr. Bradbury: If you keep whining and insisting that
> >people are quoting things you said "years ago," or your "Bruno"
> >fantasies, why do you continue to re-post something written in 1989 as
> >"proof"?
>
> Your "My Master Holds the Ropes Just So" was posted in 1995 NOT 1989!!
> You're lying again!
Interesting how she says "post a forgery" & you know *exactly* what forgery
she's talking about, even if you are too stupid to hide the fact that you
knew it.
& stop changing your handle, troll.
Tavish
<catamont-94B03A...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Since you like posting DL information:
First, my phone number is NOT on my driver's license thus you are a liar!
Second, I have told Patrick L. Humphrey repeatedly to STOP posting where I live
which he did not stop doing!
Third, I got tired of his "Fat" remarks and seeing how he made his personal info
"public knowledge" as well as proof his wife is fat I decided to post what his
web site shows-- such as:
http://www.io.com/~patrick/xxxxx <deleted for this repost>
http://www.io.com/~patrick/xxxxx <deleted for this repost>
Ny confidential information was NOT "public knowledge" and my enemies only found
it out because an evil filthy vermin subpoenaed it from my ISP and then
distributed it!
>Name:Bradbury, Robert Scott
>License Number: xxxxx <deleted for this repost>
>Address: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>Contact Telephone Number: XXXXXXXX
>Date of Birth: March 8 1950
>Gender: Male
>Race: White
>Height: 6' 2
In the spirit of "Graduated Retaliation" I now reciprocate what you did to me
when you did so without any moral justification. If you don't like it then tough
you hypocrite. You post it again and I will do something which will really make
you squeal like a stuck pig and it will be fully legal and well within my legal
rights (and moral rights)!
Sara "The Fist" Salzman
4015 S xxxxx <deleted for this repost>
Axxxxx <deleted for this repost>
xxx-xxx <deleted for this repost>-9412
>Since you believe a poem written in 1989 is a "fact,"
Another lie-- you posted it in 1995 as this proves:
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
You wrote it and that is a fact. Want to deny it? I have plenty of proof--
namely you squealing like a stuck pig!
>perhaps you'd like to address these:
I would be very glad to as I explained before-- What I posted were replies to
people who had called me a Nazi, shown hostility toward me but tenderness
towards Neo-Bolsheiks, e-mail bombed me, made death threats etc. I showed what
you posted in full context with not one word missing YET you being a thoroughly
disgusting pig who is dishonest still won't quote what I posted in context
because it would expose you for the evil lying pig you truly are!
BTW the following are the out of context versions porker swine submitted as
evidence against me. The matriarchal copulator didn't have the guts to quote me
in context BUT I will show the posts in context to expose you filth!
>On March 9, 1997:
>
> "Author: Billy Dale McTavish . . . .Vengeance is sweet and I know that
In context:
Tavish
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
The above was made in reply to e-mail bombing NOT like your S&M bondage posts.
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
In context:
Reinhardt Heydrich
Security Service
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
A "False Tavish" indeed!
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
In context:
=85nanner=A9=99
Thule Sucks
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Which one?
BTW:
>Sara
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
My Master holds the rope just so.
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
dig up the publisher and get back to you.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=2&selm=sschwartz-0502951800290001%40p55.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=4&selm=sschwartz-2202951845170001%40p00.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Sex slave looking for couple in D.C.
Message-ID: <sschwartz-220...@p00.infinet.com>
Date: 22 Feb 95 23:45:17 GMT
References: <3hutf0$k...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
<3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: p45.infinet.com
In article <3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>, (Mindy and Aaron Proietti) wrote:
> Hello Tim. My name is Mindy and I am 23 years old. My husband Aaron and I
> just got married and we are looking for some new excitement in the bedroom. We
> are very interested in your offer, and we would like to get to know you (all of
> you) better. Please write back with a full (and true) description of yourself.
> Hope to hear from you soon. Mindy and Aaron
Mindy:
If you're in Washington, you should join The Power Exchange. It's a local
BBS that's exclusively for SM folks. They're some of the best folks
around. We've met many of the people from the Board personally, and at the
parties they hold. I highly recommend it!
Sara
PS. Sorry to post this publicly. I couldn't respond to you via e-mail from
your address.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
THIS ONE IS A REAL SARA SALZMAN CLASSIC!!!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=6&selm=sschwartz-1102952319440001%40p01.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=7&selm=sschwartz-1102950819070001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Just read what Sara said: "I *did* state that fist fucking was not something I
had done very often, and merely wanted to impart my own (limited) experience."
and then look at her picture!
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
That is enough to blow your mind!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=8&selm=sschwartz-1102950812130001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: GREAT NEWS!!!
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:12:13 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
For those of you who weren't aware of it, SandMUtopia Guardian was on the
block. It looked like we were going to lose it for good.
However:
The Utopian Network (Adam Selene/Adam's Whips) has purchased it!
We've been talking to Gerry this weekend at Anything for Love here in
Columbus (Gerry = Jillian), and she says they have great plans for it!
It will be a quarterly at first, while they get the "hang" of publishing.
NO fiction, just informational articles, photographs, etc.
Lets cross fingers and wish them good luck!
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=9&selm=sschwartz-0902950732240001%40p24.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What makes someone li
Date: 9 Feb 1995 12:28:37 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sschwartz-090...@p24.infinet.com>
References: <9748WLTQK...@juris.com> <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.infinet.com
In article <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>, eigh...@cyberverse.com (Eightmeg) wrote:
> jmi...@juris.com wrote:
>
>
> : My point about most people being abused was merely a comment....it had
> : no point to make other than to inquire...
>
> My Domina and I have wondered the same thing. My experience is
> that I went to a BBS meeting for a small city and a large portion of the
> people there were, to my dismay, a very unbalanced, retarded looking
> abused lot. I sort of expected the people at an S&M club to be like
> that. But when I went to the S&M club, the people (generally) looked
> normal, bright, intelligent, balanced and attractive!
>
What small city? Those of us who live in small cities and who practise D&M
don't think of ourselves as unbalanced or retarded at all.
I believe a SERIOUS apology is needed here. This is a truly offensive post
to me, at least.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=11&selm=sschwartz-0502951451330001%40p21.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: BBS situation for comment
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:51:33 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
References: <3gup6u$7...@sundog.tiac.net> <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
In article <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>, gri...@tpe.ncm.com (Bob Grimes) wrote:
>
> The Power Exchange also has a dungeon avialable for members, but
> consenuality is not a problem. A submissive must accept a collar
> <thus consensuality> before the Dom who offered the collar can use
> that command and all other D/s commands.
>
Just to add a brief .02 here, not only is consensuality the basis for the
Dungeon on TPE, but the quality of the members also aids here. Just once,
I was addressed by a new member as "slut." Before I could even TYPE a
response, four other people on the Board had called this person (gently)
to task. I was impressed.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an
excellent target.
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Reading all of this makes me despise even more the swine who defend Pig Sara and
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=13&selm=sschwartz-020295085409%40p17.infinet.com
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Need I say more other than Sara "The Fist" Salzman had all of her archives
Sara Salzman
Tavish <t--avi-...@RemoveHyphens2MAILix.n-etc-om.com> wrote:
And you really believe that the 1st paragraph actually CHANGES the
context of your bizarre threats? You ARE psychotic, Mr. Bradbury.
Sara
Followups set to alt.revisionism, the only sewer where Bradbury should
be swimming.
knight57
His usual bullshit. It's time for you to keep your word and leave, scumbag.
Gilbert Bates
<catamont-8325D0...@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara "The Fist"
Salzman <cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>In article <jf4tav42kgp0ojlgm...@4ax.com>, Tavish wrote:
>
>> On 23 Apr 2003 16:15:55 GMT,
>> <catamont-94B03A...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara "The Fist" Salzman
It does change the context or else you filth wouldn't leave it out all the time.
Why would lying nasty evil filth want to show what I posted as a reply was to
e-mail bombs which is a big difference to YOUR tit bondage and whipping post
which a "fister" such as you posted for titillation! Here you are "FISTER" and
I guess you don't think your writings are psychotic:
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect (Sara "The Fist" Salzman)
~~End~~
Here is Sara "The Fist" Salzman describing another one of her favorite past
times in a "how to" format:
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara "The Fist" Salzman)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara "The Fist" Salzman)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End~~
>Sara
>
>Followups set to alt.revisionism, the only sewer where Bradbury should
>be swimming.
I added the news groups (and then some) back so everyone can see what a filthy
hypocritical pig you are.
Here are Sara "The Fist" Salzman's pictures:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
Tavish the True
James Gregory MacTavish
Quote Her in Full Context!! aka Re: Time to Celebrate -SECRET OF ADOLF HITLER
On 23 Apr 2003 16:15:55 GMT,
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
You wrote it and that is a fact. Want to deny it? I have plenty of proof--
namely you squealing like a stuck pig!
>perhaps you'd like to address these:
I would be very glad to as I explained before-- What I posted were replies to
people who had called me a Nazi, shown hostility toward me but tenderness
towards Neo-Bolsheiks, e-mail bombed me, made death threats etc. I showed what
you posted in full context with not one word missing YET you being a thoroughly
disgusting pig who is dishonest still won't quote what I posted in context
because it would expose you for the evil lying pig you truly are!
BTW the following are the out of context versions porker swine submitted as
In context:
Tavish
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
In context:
Reinhardt Heydrich
Security Service
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
A "False Tavish" indeed!
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
In context:
=85nanner=A9=99
Thule Sucks
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Which one?
BTW:
>Sara
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
My Master holds the rope just so.
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
dig up the publisher and get back to you.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=2&selm=sschwartz-0502951800290001%40p55.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=4&selm=sschwartz-2202951845170001%40p00.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Sex slave looking for couple in D.C.
Message-ID: <sschwartz-220...@p00.infinet.com>
Date: 22 Feb 95 23:45:17 GMT
References: <3hutf0$k...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
<3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: p45.infinet.com
In article <3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>, (Mindy and Aaron Proietti) wrote:
> Hello Tim. My name is Mindy and I am 23 years old. My husband Aaron and I
> just got married and we are looking for some new excitement in the bedroom. We
> are very interested in your offer, and we would like to get to know you (all of
> you) better. Please write back with a full (and true) description of yourself.
> Hope to hear from you soon. Mindy and Aaron
Mindy:
If you're in Washington, you should join The Power Exchange. It's a local
BBS that's exclusively for SM folks. They're some of the best folks
around. We've met many of the people from the Board personally, and at the
parties they hold. I highly recommend it!
Sara
PS. Sorry to post this publicly. I couldn't respond to you via e-mail from
your address.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
THIS ONE IS A REAL SARA SALZMAN CLASSIC!!!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=6&selm=sschwartz-1102952319440001%40p01.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=7&selm=sschwartz-1102950819070001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
Just read what Sara said: "I *did* state that fist fucking was not something I
had done very often, and merely wanted to impart my own (limited) experience."
and then look at her picture!
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
That is enough to blow your mind!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=8&selm=sschwartz-1102950812130001%40p14.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: GREAT NEWS!!!
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:12:13 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
For those of you who weren't aware of it, SandMUtopia Guardian was on the
block. It looked like we were going to lose it for good.
However:
The Utopian Network (Adam Selene/Adam's Whips) has purchased it!
We've been talking to Gerry this weekend at Anything for Love here in
Columbus (Gerry = Jillian), and she says they have great plans for it!
It will be a quarterly at first, while they get the "hang" of publishing.
NO fiction, just informational articles, photographs, etc.
Lets cross fingers and wish them good luck!
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End of EXACT GOOGLE Archive~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=11&selm=sschwartz-0502951451330001%40p21.infinet.com
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Sara Salzman
James Gregory MacTavish <JG_Mac...@MacTavish-CENTRAL.NET> wrote:
Same old junk. We have all read it already, Mr. Bradbury, the hundreds
of other times you've posted it.
But I'm still wondering why YOU are posting to alt.sex.bondage?
Followups set
--
My name is not "Fatbury Scumbag" you stupid lying Jew bastard. Name call
is all a pathetic loser like you has! You have yet to prove me wrong
you dirty filthy lying Jew bastard!
--Scott Bradbury, who completely misses the irony of the above
Philip Phillips
James Gregory MacTavish <JG_Mac...@MacTavish-CENTRAL.NET> wrote:
My goodness; what a homely slovenly woman. I would venture to guess Sara is an
aged prostitute with no clientele. Many prostitutes start out young to support a
drug addiction and they all go down hill. They start getting uglier and fatter
and then they are driven into porn. Any of these sluttish women bearing
offspring often have children with physical or mental disabilities. This Salzman
woman is on her last lap judging by her pictures if those are really her.
Whoever the woman is she looks repulsive and all used up. Surely those pictures
are someone's idea of a gag because they made me gag. A woman who looks as
hardcore as the woman in the pictures and a woman who would visualize having her
mammary glands lashed has to be a slut whose genitals crawl with crotch crickets
and worms. Truly disgusting.
Mickey Finn O'Tavish
That ugly hag is a real person and her name is Sara Salzman. She is into S&M
torture bondage and she does have two kids who she has claimed are "gifted"
which is a code phrase normally used for retarded children.
I.E.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-D20A99.14393008022001%40news.concentric.net&rnum=2
From: Sara <cata...@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Psycho Sara and Susie, the 40 yr old Welch MALE plumber
Date: 08 Feb 2001 21:39:42 GMT
Message-ID: <catamont-D20A99...@news.concentric.net>
"Both of my children test in the 95% percentile for their ages. Neither
is retarted, severely or not. Both are in the "gifted" programs at their
respective schools..." <END>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-1003001301510001%40ts011d23.den-co.concentric.net&rnum=4
Subject: Re: Hello Sara
Date: 2000/03/10
Message-ID: <catamont-100...@ts011d23.den-co.concentric.net>
"My SON has a developmental disability, and I may have posted his name back
in the days when Matt Giwer insisted that NO ONE with autism could talk.
He knew that because he had "hugged" an autistic child once." <END>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-4E4405.19320111032002%40news.concentric.net&rnum=3
Subject: Re: SO PSYCHOSARA LIKES TO BRAG ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE HER HOUSE IS
Date: 12 Mar 2002 02:32:51 GMT
Message-ID: <catamont-4E4405...@news.concentric.net>
In article <d96c00cd.02031...@posting.google.com>,
psych...@mindless.com (Sara is a Psycho) wrote:
> QUESTION ABOUT YOUR MORALS:
>
> YOU CLAIM I AM TRAILER TRASH... BUT UNLIKE YOU, I DON'T HAVE A
> MENTALLY RETARDED AUTISTIC KID.
I don't have a mentally-retarded kid either.
<<Tavish comment May 20, 2003: According to the material below you do! So stop
remaining in denial!>>
> WOULD YOU TRADE THAT "NICE HOUSE" OF YOURS FOR A SINGLE-WIDE TRAILER
> IF IT MEANT ARI GETTING "CURED" OF HIS AUTISM (CAUSED BY YOUR BEHAVIOR
> AND GENETICS). JUST PRETEND GOD IS GIVING YOU THE CHOICE.
Autism is a neurological disorder. There is no "cure" for it. My son has
been treated since he was first diagnosed. And I'm certain that his
treatment has cost a great deal more than your trailer.
<<Tavish comment May 20, 2003: You bigotry toward people who live in mobile
homes is noted BUT that won't make the truth you son is retarded go away!>>
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Is "gifted" what they call autism these days?
I pity your children because they had no choice of the beasts who lacked self
control, who brought then into the world BUT I think if you would have had a
more moral and clean past then your two offspring would not be "gifted" as you
put it!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=hu882ug94vcqltti00ucca2e79d3jl9dc1%404ax.com&rnum=2
Subject: ...Autism is Mental Illness and Sara Salzman Backs Herself Into a
Corner (As Usual)! aka Re: Why is Scott Bradbury so Ignorant?
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 00:20:46 -0600
Message-ID: <hu882ug94vcqltti0...@4ax.com>
On Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:32:46 GMT, <3c25e17b....@news.abccom.bc.ca>
kle...@netbbistro.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:02:43 -0600, _Nizkor's Nemesis_
><t-a-v-i-...@i--x.n-e--t-c--o-m.c--o-mRemoveHyphensToMail>
>wrote:
>
>>On 21 Dec 2001 16:30:02 GMT,
>><catamont-C91B5D...@news.concentric.net> Sara
>><cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>>Got that? "Autism is not a mental illness."
>>Other sources disagree with you Sara!
>
>Here is what the National Institute of Mental Health says
>
>[snip]
You just can't let the facts get in the way can you Lewis?
I faithfully restore for the sake of the archives precisely what you deleted and
wish to ignore:
<START>
<<<In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed
a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit
research and educational purposes only. - FAIR USE INTENDED>>>
Here is what the National Institute of Mental Health says:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/numbers.cfm
Mental Disorders in America
Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An
estimated 22.1 percent of Americans ages 18 and older—about 1 in 5 adults—suffer
from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.
Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time.
In the U.S., mental disorders are diagnosed based on the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV).
[...]<Many mental disorders deleted>
Autism affects an estimated 1 to 2 per 1,000 people. Autism and related
disorders (also called autism spectrum disorders or pervasive developmental
disorders) develop in childhood and generally are apparent by age 3.
Autism is about 4 times more common in boys than girls. Girls with the disorder,
however, tend to have more severe symptoms and greater cognitive impairment.
<END>
If autism is not a mental disorder or a mental illness as some people call it
then why would the "National Institute of Mental Health" be listing it?
http://www.nami.org/illness/
National Alliance for the Mentally Ill
At the heart of NAMI's mission is the sharing of information with consumers
(i.e., persons with mental illnesses), their families, friends, mental health
professionals, and the general public. NAMI educates all people about severe and
persistent mental illnesses to eliminate stigma and promote access to integrated
systems of care, education, and rehabilitation.
Illnesses:
Anorexia nervosa
Anxiety disorder
ADHD
Autism/Asperger's
Autism and Asperger's syndrome: Autism is classified as one of the most
pervasive developmental disorders of the brain. ...
<end>
http://www.nami.org/campaign/statepar.htm
National Alliance for the Mentally Ill
State Mental Illness Parity Laws
Overview of State Parity Laws
Officially designated "The Decade of the Brain," the 1990s brought unprecedented
federal and state legislation to end health insurance discrimination against
individuals with mental illnesses. After the Mental Health Parity Act of 1996
was signed into law, the momentum shifted to the states.
[...]
California
1999
Provides for persons of any age equal coverage for severe mental illnesses,
including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorders,
schizoaffective disorder, panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder,
autism...
<end>
http://www.nmha.org/infoctr/factsheets/73.cfm
National Mental Health Association
What is Autism?
Autism is one of the mental, emotional, and behavioral disorders that appears in
early childhood. Autistic children may have a serious lifelong disability.
However, with appropriate treatment and training, some autistic children can
develop certain aspects of independence in their lives. Parents should support
their autistic children in developing those skills that use their strengths so
they will feel good about themselves.
What Are the Signs Of Autism?
When an infant or toddler:
-does not cuddle or respond to affection and touching.
-does not make eye contact.
-appears to be unable to communicate.
-displays persistent failure to develop two-way social relationships in any
situation.
-does not show a preference for parents over other adults.
-does not develop friendships with other children.
-has poor language skills; or nonexistent ones.
-shows unusual, extreme responses to objects either avoidance or preoccupation.
-finds moving objects, such as a fan, hold great fascination.
-may form an unusual attachment to odd objects such as a paper or rubberband.
-displays repetitive activities of a restrictive range.
-spins and repeats body movements, such as arm flapping.
-may repeat television commercials.
-may indulge in complex bedtime rituals.
The symptoms of autism range from mild to severe. Although symptoms of the
disorder sometimes can be seen in early infancy, the condition may appear after
months of normal development. About 7 in every 10 children and adolescents with
autism also have mental retardation..
<<How about that fact Sara? Doc Tavish comment>>
What Causes Autism?
Researchers are unsure about what causes autism. Several studies suggest that
autistic disorder might be caused by a combination of biological factors,
including exposure to a virus before birth, a problem with the immune system, or
genetics.
<<Tavish comment May 20, 2003: See that genetics Sara? Did the atmosphere of
drugs/drinking/S&M Torture etc. give you "gifted" children? You can't deny you
have been visited by Children's Protective Services either! I.E.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-63AD8B.15143317042002%40news.concentric.net&rnum=3
From: Sara <cata...@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Sara Salzman pro-abortion,sexual sadist, and pervert...
Date: 17 Apr 2002 21:14:38 GMT
Message-ID: <catamont-63AD8B...@news.concentric.net>
"Mr. Blakely likes to trumpet that I was "investigated" by Children's Protective
Services, which is true.">>
<END>
Would drug abuse be a factor I wonder? It should figure in as a biological or
genetic factor. Many studies have been made about genetic damage from drug
abuse! Care to deny it anyone? We all know for a fact Sara Salzman admitted drug
abuse in her family arrangement too!
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=1&selm=catamont-D20A99.14393008022001%40news.concentric.net
From: Sara <cata...@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Psycho Sara and Susie, the 40 yr old Welch MALE plumber
Date: 08 Feb 2001 21:39:42 GMT
Message-ID: <catamont-D20A99...@news.concentric.net>
[...]
Both of my children test in the 95% percentile for their ages. Neither
is retarted, severely or not. Both are in the "gifted" programs at their
respective schools..
<<It is now established that your son has autism so your argument:
"Both of my children test in the 95% percentile for their ages. Neither
is retarted.." is specious especially when the National Mental Health
Association has made known: "About 7 in every 10 children and adolescents
with autism also have mental retardation" (cited above) I charged before
that your saying ""gifted" programs at their respective schools" was a
euphemism and all of your pals attacked me for stating the truth! Well I
just gave you a heavy dose of reality! Now stop being in denial! Doc Tavish
comment>>
The funniest part of this is that, although I do smoke cigarettes (as
did my ex-husband), HE was the one who abused drugs. I removed the kids
from a houseful of it.
<<Too late! Like ducking after the cannon goes off! The genetics of the drug
abuser were a factor in the birth of your children!! Doc Tavish comment>>
~~End of GOOGLE Archival Excerpt~~
Need I say more other than Sara is a nasty degenerate wh*re?
Tavish
From: Sara "The Fist" Salzman
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What is power? (was Re: Power Imbalance v. Power Exchange)
In article <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>, ver...@crl.com (Janet W. Hardy) wrote:
> Quick straw poll here: How many people have ever felt totally,
> completely safe during any S/M scene -- safeword or no, light or heavy,
> D/S or sensation-only?
Verdant:
I hate to muddle the semantics further, but... safe? You mean safe that my
Master won't break my leg or suffocate me to the point of death in a scene?
100%. Period. I know my Master would never cause tha kind of damage.
Safe, as in not getting hurt, or not getting hurt MORE thn I'd LIKE to accept?
Certianly not 100%. Mastercat is always pushing limits, and pushing me to
the edge or slightly farther.
But safe in terms of not getting killed or left in bondage to die alone?
Absolutely 100%. And not only with my own Master, but I feel equally safe
with those other Dom(mes) he has had me play with. Perrrfect <END>
Sara "The Fist" Salzman on Safe Torture
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=s70dcvgs3eucqd31n81gqo5e21uj7vvg67%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Sara "The Fist" Salzman - A Compilation of Her Better Known Literary
Works and Opinions
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:35:49 -0500
Message-ID: <s70dcvgs3eucqd31n...@4ax.com>
Sara Salzman
Mickey Finn O'Tavish <MickeyFinnO'Tavish@IRE-O'Tavish.net> wrote:
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:49:31 -0600
To: Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
From: Scott Bradbury <doc_tav...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Between You and I #2
Take care and regardless if we have a heated debate in the future I will
no longer make hog calls, show links to your picture, ot resort to
underhandedness.
I am no longer pissed at Yale either. I understand that he really
believed i posted his realtives addresses etc. I put myself in bhis
shoes mentally and I was pissed off too!
Sergei Ilyich Tavishski
<catamont-667D8F...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>P
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=tedacvgivel2c573ml73lfdea2mob0ukd5%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Jews Want Legal and Financial Superiority Over the Non-Jew...
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:03:03 -0500
Message-ID: <tedacvgivel2c573m...@4ax.com>
Sara Salzman
Sergei Ilyich Tavishski <001Tav...@NO-REPLY-001.NET> wrote:
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:12:26 -0600
To: Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
From: Scott Bradbury <doc_tav...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: I am Leaving ALT.REVISIONISM For Good! The Thugs Are
Threatening...
At 06:23 AM 01/29/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Can you understand why the posting of my children's names, my neighbor's
>addresses, my father's personal information and threats to report me to
>Children's Services have caused me to react the way I have in the past?
I understand and remeber I said all things in the past are water under
the bridge. Before Blaklkely tiried to balck mail me remember that I
said now I understand why Yale would hate me for his belief that I was
the one who posted his relative's names etc. That is why I hate McVay
having those "admissions of fact" because it tells the whole world that
I did such a thing. If I would have known Blakely did such at the time I
would have told my attorney becausse he asked me first if I did and I
said no and then he asked if I knew who did and I said no.
Nicolai Boris Taviskovsky
<catamont-A1C9E2...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
From: Sara "The Fist" Salzman
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Sex slave looking for couple in D.C.
In article <3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>, (Mindy and Aaron Proietti) wrote:
> Hello Tim. My name is Mindy and I am 23 years old. My husband Aaron and I
> just got married and we are looking for some new excitement in the bedroom. We
> are very interested in your offer, and we would like to get to know you (all of
> you) better. Please write back with a full (and true) description of yourself.
> Hope to hear from you soon. Mindy and Aaron
Mindy:
If you're in Washington, you should join The Power Exchange. It's a local
BBS that's exclusively for SM folks. They're some of the best folks
around. We've met many of the people from the Board personally, and at the
parties they hold. I highly recommend it! Sara <END>
--Sara "The Fist" Salzman comments on the above sig line with:
"And you have a problem with this post ... why?"
-From: Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
-Subject: Re: Sara "The Fist" Salzman Trying to Distance Herself From Her S&M
-Torture Bondage Lifestyle...
-Date: 19 May 2003 17:37:15 GMT
-Message-ID: <catamont-05928A...@news.spellbndr.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=s70dcvgs3eucqd31n81gqo5e21uj7vvg67%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Sara "The Fist" Salzman - A Compilation of Her Better Known Literary
Works and Opinions
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:35:49 -0500
Message-ID: <s70dcvgs3eucqd31n...@4ax.com>
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
Sara Salzman
Nicolai Boris Taviskovsky <Boris_Ta...@NO-REPLY-MOSC001.NET>
wrote:
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:12:16 -0600
To: Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net>
From: Scott Bradbury <tavi...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Thought you'd turned over a new leaf...
It isn't a matter of really conspiring, taking sides, or even being
traitors to either side or even being conspiratorial-- it's a matter of
seeing and recognizing a person who really hates both sides and seeks to
destroy both groups. I, for myself, doubt if I will ever make my "Doc
Tavish" posts again but if I do make anything in the same vein it will
not be as a general indictment of all Jews. I would say this group at
their web site proclaims etc. --- that is if I ever decide to do it
again. I am tired of tit for tat and bickering. I don't mind serious
debates about numbers, dates etc. but the name calling etc. from both
sides and I am just as guilty wears thin. I will be [age deleted] years
old next month and I am past my prime and I realize I don't want to
spend my remaining time in tit for tat hoe downs.
Ernst Wilhelm von Tavische
Philip Phillips <Phill...@prontomail.com> wrote:
That ugly hag is a real person and her name is Sara Salzman. She is into S&M
I.E.
<<Tavish comment May 20, 2003: Your bigotry toward people who live in mobile
homes is noted BUT that won't make the truth your son is retarded go away!>>
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Is "gifted" what they call autism these days?
I pity your children because they had no choice of the beasts who lacked self
control and who brought then into the world BUT I think if you would have had a
<START>
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/numbers.cfm
Mental Disorders in America
<END>
<end>
[...]
California
<end>
<END>
[...]
Tavish
From: Sara "The Fist" Salzman
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What is power? (was Re: Power Imbalance v. Power Exchange)
In article <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>, ver...@crl.com (Janet W. Hardy) wrote:
> Quick straw poll here: How many people have ever felt totally,
> completely safe during any S/M scene -- safeword or no, light or heavy,
> D/S or sensation-only?
Verdant:
I hate to muddle the semantics further, but... safe? You mean safe that my
Master won't break my leg or suffocate me to the point of death in a scene?
100%. Period. I know my Master would never cause tha kind of damage.
Safe, as in not getting hurt, or not getting hurt MORE thn I'd LIKE to accept?
Certianly not 100%. Mastercat is always pushing limits, and pushing me to
the edge or slightly farther.
But safe in terms of not getting killed or left in bondage to die alone?
Absolutely 100%. And not only with my own Master, but I feel equally safe
with those other Dom(mes) he has had me play with. Perrrfect <END>
Sara "The Fist" Salzman on Safe Torture
Sara Salzman
Jubilation T. Cornpone <EWvonT...@TAVISCHE-GMBH.NET> wrote:
When we fought the Yankees and annihilation was near,
Who was there to lead the charge that took us safe to the rear?
Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone; Old "Toot your own horn - pone."
Jubilation T. Cornpone, a man who knew no fear!
When we almost had 'em but the issue still was in doubt,
Who suggested the retreat that turned it into a rout?
Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone; Old "Tattered and torn - pone."
Jubilation T. Cornpone, he kept us hidin' out!
With our ammunition gone and faced with utter defeat,
Who was it that burned the crops and left us nothing to eat?
Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone; Old "September Morn - pone."
Jubilation T. Cornpone, the pants blown off his seat!
--
"First in war, first in peace, first to holler 'I Quit!'"
-- Scott Bradbury's mentor, Jubilation T. Cornpone.
Richard Phillips
========================================================
Phillips
THe name Jubilation T. Cornpone will probably be unfamiliar
to most of you. He was a brainchild of Al Capp, the creator
of Li'l Abner, JTC was a supposed Confederate general, the
name an obvious takeoff on Jubal Early.
It seems that Li'l Abner's community of Dogpatch had an
annual Sadie Hawkins day, when the unmarried (and largely
unmarriagible) females of the town were given free ruin to
chase the unmarried males and to claim marriage rights with
anyone they managed to catch.
On one such occasion, two hapless males were close to
capture and one of them suggested:
"We'll hide behin the solid brass (equestrian) stachoo of
Ginral Jubilation T. Cornpone. He never fled from anything."
The horse of the statue spied the approaching females and
galloped off in terror.
===============================================================
Roger
(an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
someone claiming to be Richard Phillips wrote
in message <3EF5DBA2...@mbay.net>:
>THe name Jubilation T. Cornpone will probably be unfamiliar
>to most of you. He was a brainchild of Al Capp, the creator
>of Li'l Abner, JTC was a supposed Confederate general, the
>name an obvious takeoff on Jubal Early.
>
>It seems that Li'l Abner's community of Dogpatch had an
>annual Sadie Hawkins day, when the unmarried (and largely
>unmarriagible) females of the town were given free ruin to
>chase the unmarried males and to claim marriage rights with
>anyone they managed to catch.
>
>On one such occasion, two hapless males were close to
>capture and one of them suggested:
>
>"We'll hide behin the solid brass (equestrian) stachoo of
>Ginral Jubilation T. Cornpone. He never fled from anything."
>
>The horse of the statue spied the approaching females and
>galloped off in terror.
Rather like phillips, when he realized he was backing himself into a
corner from which the only escape would be acknowledging the clay feet
of three of people his ideology requires him to accept the authority
of without question: MacDonald, leuchter and phillips.
*Unlike* phillips, however, the horse never attempted to pretend that
he wasn't doing what he very plainly was doing, nor would the horse
come back in a few weeks and pretend that the entire situation had not
unfolded as it did, and that the end result was not as it was.
<begin phillips' unceremonious retreat from the facts>
>> >No, it does not. If the cyanide penetrates uniformly to any
>> >depth, then both the size and location of the sample are
>> >immaterial
>> An "if" you have been singularly reluctant to support with any facts,
>> despite being invited to.
>Please repost the passage where I was "invited" to support
>that belief. I do not recall any such posting.
<quote>
>> Do you claim that HCN penetration is uniform?
>> At what depth does the penetration dissipate?
>> Is this penetration uniform in brick material?
</quote>
>I strongly DISbelieve that penetration takes place only to a
>very small and specific depth.
On what do you base this statement of faith?
>I am not prepared to say that it is uniform with respect to
>depth. I am only saying that we have no experimental
>evidence to eitheur support or deny it.
And in this you are wrong. The Institute of Forensic Research in
Krakow did just such experiments.
>> >Moreover, if depth of peretration does NOT matter, then why
>> >have you people been forever harping on that 1 micron or 0.1
>> >micron figure as being the limit of penetration.
>> It doesn't make any difference to the dilution. It *does* matter in
>> the broader scheme of things.
>(1) If it doesn't make any difference to the dilution, then
>tell me what DOES make a difference in the matter of
>dilution?
If that had been the only mistake L made, it would make a difference.
It was not.
>(2) Tell me all about that "broader scheme of things."
What with the random size of the samples he took, his error in not
properly labeling them, and invalid control, the depth of penetration
becomes a valid issue, but one over shadowed by more fundamental
methodological errors.
>> >> If you are going to
>> >> analyze the paint on a wall, you scrape some of it off, you don't gaugue
>> >> out chunks of various sizes and crush them, so that the painted surface is
>> >> diluted with material from the other surfaces.
>> >Leuchter was not analyzing for cyanide on the wall; he was
>> >attempting to analyze for the amount of exposure.
>> And had no idea of how to do so.
>Stop, please. This is a technical debate and there is no
>place in it for polemic.
He would not have made the errors he did if he knew better. QED.
>> >> The laboratory, not knowing that only one surface of the wall
>> >Excuse me but how MANY "surfaces" does a wall have?
>> With randomly shaped chunks, there could be many surfaces. leuchter
>> didn't bother to record and mark which was the surface that had been
>> exposed.
>Stop a minute here. An ordinary room has four walls, a
>floor, and a ceiling. OK? Now the wall materials --brick,
>mortar, whatever-- is not absolutely smooth; there are
>irregularities. Maybe at one point there is a 2" x 3" patch
>which is 5 degrees out of true vertical and waybe nearby
>there is another patch 4" x 5" which is 10 degrees out of
>true vertical. Does each one of these constitute a
>"surface." THere would easily have been several thousand.
>And is it your contention that Leuchter ought to have
>NUMBERED every one of these "surfaces" and noted which
>"surface" each sample came from.
It's not the *wall's* surface that is at issue -- it is the surfaces
of the samples. L gouged out chunks and did not indicate which
surface of the *chucks* would have been exposed. There for, when
Alpha Labs took samples of these samples, it is possible that these
second samples were from the *interior* of the wall, and at a depth to
which HCN would not penetrate, thus skewing the results (because
another part of that same sample, closer to the surface that was
exposed, may have come back positive.)
>> >> would have
>> >> been exposed, took samples of the samples
>> >Samples of the samples. I'm not sure what you mean. Did they
>> >ignore some of the samples?
>> No, they took small pieces of the samples they were given.
As is normal in this type of testing.
>> >>- that is the normal procedure
>> >> when doing analytical chemistry. But, once again, some of the material
>> >> they analyzed as samples of samples was from the surface which had been
>> >> exposed, while some of it was from sides and back. This amunted to a
>> >> second random dilution.
>ONly if depth-of-penetration is an issue here. But allow me
>to remind you of two statements you made; one just a short
>while back; another a little further ahead.
>
>" It (depth-of-penetration) doesn't make any difference to
>the dilution."
>
>" The issue of the penetration of cyanide is thus not really
>relevant."
>
>Forgive me for being such a scrutinizer; these dull habits
>pay off sometimes.
In allowing you to pick at unimportant details. You have acknowledged
below that the penetration is not uniform. So we got samples being
tested which had been penetrated to varying degrees, resulting in
random amounts of non-exposed material being tested.
>> >Only if you are still insisting that depth of penetration IS
>> >an issue.
>> And since you have to offer anything close to support for your
>> assertion that penetration is uniform to any depth
>I have never claimed that.
Then you have acknowledged a fundamental flaw in L's sampling, since
he took randomly sized chunks, which as a whole would have had varying
exposure to the HCN.
>>, and since the
>> Krakow Institute has done the experiments that show that this is not
>> the case, I'll go with he facts, thank you very much.
>Please post the experimental results that establish this,
>thank you very much.
It's been done. You have enough information to research this
yourself, I'm not going to waste bandwidth reposting what you will
(pretend to?) forget the next time this subject comes up.
>> >> The issue of the penetration of cyanide is thus not really relevant.
>> >Glad we have that settled. But your previous paragraph
>> >argues otherwise.
>> It is not relevant because of other mistakes leuchter made, which by
>> themselves invalidate his methodology.
>Excuse me but the question of the extent to which HCN does
>or does not penetrate is a scientific question that has
>nothing whatsoever to do with the validity of Leuchter's
>technique.
True -- that's why Eugene says it is not relevant, because that
technique all by itself invalidates the data from a quantitative
perspective.
>THere are some things for which training in
>analytical chemistry is quite unnecessary; common sense is
>more than enough.
Unfortunately, L displayed little of that, as well...
>> >> Whether it penetrates beyond a few micrograms
>> >Did you mean microns? Micrograms is a measure of weight.
>> >> or not is irrelevant to the
>> >> fact that the walls were immediately exposed to cyanide and samples of the
>> >> wall surface, rather than chunks of wall, should have been tested.
>> >I wish you'd make up your mind on this issue. IS
>> >depth-of-penetration an issue here or isn't it?
>> Let's try this again. You claim that penetration is uniform to any
>> depth,
>I have never claimed any such thing.
>>those that have done the work say different.
>differentLY.
>
>THes show me the experimental data that proves it.
Hit Google and find the last time you were told.
>> It would
>> therefore make sense to use a methodology in which there is no
>> possibility of it becoming an issue.
>BECOMING at issue. My dear fellow: It IS an issue until it
>is settled.
So wouldn't it make sense to design a methodology that eliminates the
issue altogether?
>> It's called "controlling the variables."
>In a scientific experiment, you do not "control" the
>variables; you MEASURE them.
You control the variables you do not mean to measure, so their value
is known and can be accounted for.
>> >> Leuchter's sloppy sampling
>For the second time I must remind you that this is a
>technical discussion and polemic has no place in it. So
>stick to fact and spare me the editorializing.
It's not editorializing -- it's simple fact.
>> >You have not made your case that it WAS "sloppy."
>> No, it's been made. You are simply too ignorant of the science
>> involved to understand.
>Are you VERY sure you're not Jewish?
>
>The feeble attempt at intellectual oneupmanship is highly
>suggestive.
No, simply an observation. You think that an experimenter can choose
anything at all for a control, for example.
>> >>, his failure to indicate which surface of his
>> >> samples came from the exposed wall
>THere were ten thousand "surfaces" in the wall and Leuchter
>never told any one which of the ten thousand each of his
>samples came from. Shocking.
That's not the point -- he wanted chunks tested for exposure, and did
not indicate which part of the chunk could be expected to show signs
of such exposure.
>> >>, and the destructive analytical
>> >> technique used by the laboratory amounted to a double dilution of his
>> >> samples by random factors.
>Now you're telling me the the Alpha Lab didn't know its
>business.
No, now we're saying that Alpha Labs was given incomplete information
on the nature of the exposure.
>> >I've said it before (at least three time). If you are
>> >convinced that Leuchter's technique was all faulty then
>> >don't just stand there and yack about it, send in our own
>> >team to do it the way it should have been done and we'l look
>> >at their results. If they get concentrations much high that
>> >Leuchter got, then you will have made your case. THe only
>> >thing I'm going to believe are NUMBERS, not hyperactive
>> >verbalizers.
>> And it's been pointed out to you that there *has* been proper testing
>> done.
>And can the results of that testing be compared with
>Leuchter's results thus allowing us to draw a conclusion
>about the validity of Leuchter's work. According to you the
>answer to that question is "no." Wo cannot compare the two.
>And since we cannot campare them we cannot draw any
>conclusions is to which used better technique.
Yes, we can. The mistakes L made remain mistakes regardless of what
anyone else may or may not have done.
<deletions>
>> >> > > >The question of dilution rests upon the belief that HCN
>> >> > > >penetrates only to an extremely minute depth (something like
>> >> > > >1 micron or 0.1 micron - yes). In consequence, if we use
>> >> > > >large scrapings as our samples, we are necessarily
>> >> > > >"diluting" material that MAY contain HCN with material that
>> >> > > >cannot possibly contain HCN. - yes?
>> >> > > No -- that issue is that leuchter used huge chunks gouged out of the
>> >> > > walls, and that these gouges contained varying amounts of wall
>> >> > > material.
>VARYING amounts of wall material.
>
>If, as you claim, Leuchter "gouged huge chunks out of the
>walls," then what could the samples posibly be BUT wall
>material.
Wall material, several layers of paint, and varying amounts of
compounds as a result of exposure to HCN.
And no indication nor instruction as to *what* specifically had been
exposed.
>> Do you claim that HCN penetration is uniform?
>No
Then you have admitted that randomly sized chunks of wall needed
additional handling before testing to limit the amount of randomly
exposed material in the test sample.
>> >> > > At what depth does the penetration dissipate?
>At what depth does penetration Dissipate?
>
>Is it possible you mean to say: At what depth does
>penetration cease?
So, it would stop all at once?
>The answer is that I don't know.
Then you have admitted that randomly sized chunks of wall needed
additional handling before testing to limit the amount of randomly
exposed material in the test sample.
>> >> > > Is this penetration uniform in
>> >> > > brick material?
>> >Talk, talk, talk. Send in your own team.
>> It's been done. Now answer the questions.
>Yes it's been done but, according to you the two sets of
>results cannot be compared. Therefore the issue is still
>open.
No, it's not.
<snip repetition of questions>
>> >> > I see. Then depth-of-penetration is NOT the issue - correct?
>> >> > Sorry, friend, but that's not the way I heard it. And IF it
>> >> > is not the issue, then why are you people forever harping on
>> >> > the 1 micron or 0.1 micron figure as being the depth to
>> >> > which HCN can penetrate?
>> >> >
>> >> > Now Leuchter took his samples from --what was it?-- 14
>> >> No, he took thirty-one (31) samples, one (1) of which was a "control"
>> >> sample from a blue-stained wall in a fumigation chamber, the remaining
>> >> thirty (30) being from ruins, restorations, and foundations of structures
>> >> other evidence indicated had been used for mass gassings.
>WHAT other evidence?
Testimony, documents, etc.
>> >> Fourteen (14) of his samples from gas chamber samples tested positive for
>> >> Prussian Blue
>What do youu mean "tested positive?" If you insist on
>calling 1.0 mg/kg "positive" there is no way I can stop you.
What else would you call it?
>> >>, the only cyanate Leuchter tested for, using a detection
>> >> threshold of 1.0 mg/kg. This, despite two episodes of random dilution,
>> >> once when taking the samples, once when analyzing them.
>For the I'm-damned-if-I-remember-which time, if you don't
>like Leuchter's results, send in you own team and do it the
>way you think it should have been done. And don't give me
>any more crap about it's already been done. I'm talking
>about sending in a team and getting results thta CAN BE
>COMPARED with Leuchter's, not results that cannot be
>campared.
But L's experimental design was fundamentally flawed, making
reproduction of his results impossible. The very first problem is, he
documented nothing about the specific sizes, etc. of his samples.
>> > >> different places, in order to get some sort of good average.
>> >> > Now you are trying to tell me that if, at each place, he had
>> >> > taken a much smaller chunk he would have gotten very
>> >> > different results. My answer to that is this: if you feel
>> >> > the technique was that faulty then send in a team of your
>> >> > own and have them do it the way it should have been done.
>> >> >
>> >> > --They reply: that has already BEEN done by the Krakow
>> >> > people.
>> >> > --To that I reply: OK then why is it that they got just
>> >> > about the same fgures that Leuchter did?
>> >> For the umpteenth time: THEY DIDN'T.
>> >>
>> >> 1. They tested for cyanide ions, Leuchter tested for Prussian Blue.
>Well, I have to say that something strange happened here.
>They used different techniques in testing for different
>substance, and YET THE CONCENTRATION FIGURES WERE JUST ABOUT
>THE SAME IN BOTH CASES. Most strange; most strange.
The only strange thing is that you think you can get away with this
lie again. It has been pointed out to you that they were *not* just
about the same.
>> >Are the two completely different? If so, can you tell me
>> >their respective chemical formulae?
>> Yes, and you have been told before. Why should we believe you won't
>> just ignore it like you did before?
>Tell me again and we'll see what happens.
Hit Google and look for "chemical formula prussian blue" without the
quotes.
>> >> 2. Leuchter's doubly diluted gas chamber samples samples that tested
>> >> positive for Prussian Blue yielded readings ranging from about 1.1 mg/kg
>> >> to 7.9 mg/kg. His fumigation chamber sample was much higher, on the order
>> >> of 1050 mg/kg, a factor ranging from about 130 to 950.
>> >> a. Since Leuchter mistakenly believed that it takes far more cyanide to
>> >> kill people than it does to kill vermin, he thought that the discrepancy
>> >> was proof that the structures alleged to be gas chambers could not have
>> >> been used for mass gassings.
>I do not accept that Leuchter has CONCLUSIVELY proven that
>the alleged execution chambers were not what they are
>claimed to have been. I do maintain that he has cast the
>most serious doubt on that claim.
Because your ideology requires you to, not because the facts so
indicate.
>You remind me that L was wrong in believing that needed more
>HCN to kill people than it did to kill lice. What impact
>does this have on his results. Well, it MAY, to a certain
>extent lessen the dialectical force of the huge difference
>between the results obtained from the fumigtion chamber and
>those obtained from the alleged execution chamber.
>
>BUT
>
>(1) The figures given to us about ppm needed to kill people
>and kill lice are MINIMUM figures. If there HAD been mass
>executions, we may be sure that the Nazis would have sued
>more than the minimum.
>
>(2) The traces L found were the accumulated result of ALL
>that had happened during the time the camps were in
>existence. THis would include not only concentrations but
>also frequence and duration of the exposures. It would also
>be affected by the fact that where as your aleged execution
>chambers operated within specific time limits, the
>fumigation chambers did not.
And the fact that the gas chambers were exposed to the elements for
decades -- none of which L took into account in his design.
>> >I aw not interested in Leuchter's asumptions,much less in
>> >their analysis by hyperactive verbalizers. Alll I want to
>> >hear about are numbers.
>> Once again, showing your ignorance of science. It is leuchter's
>> assumptions (and ignorance) that caused him to design a faulty
>> methodology.
>I must remind you, for the tbird time, that this is a
>technical debate and that polemic has no legitimate place in
>it.
And I must remind you that it's not polemic, it's fact. His
methodology was fundamentally flawed.
>> >> b. Leuchter also thought that a gas chamber must have certain design
>> >> prerequisites; not finding any signs of these, he attributed the presence
>> >> of Prussian Blue in fourteen (14) of his thirty (30) samples to
>> >> undocumented fumigations.
>(1) My own recollection of the Leuchter Report (I may be
>wrong) is that L, confronted with a demand he explain even
>the minute traces found, suggested a onestime fumigation in
>a very offhand manner.
And didn't realize that this shot down his conclusion regarding
whether the room could have been used to kill people.
>(2) I don't think he could have meant that is a serious way
>because a fumigation chamber needs those safety features
>just as much.
And yet they did not have them. How do you explain this discrepancy?
>> >Just numbers. No talky-talk.
>> The numbers must be explained.
>> >> c. Once again, Leuchter's mistaken belief that it takes far more
>> >> cyanide to kill people than it does to kill vermin prevented him from
>> >> seeing that his claim that the cyanide residues were the result of
>> >> fumigations necessarily means that the places in question were exposed to
>> >> concontrations of cyanide high enought o kill people.
>> >Sentence not understood.
>> I'll type slow for you. leuchter thought that it took more HCN to
>> kill humans than lice. So he claimed that the traces he found were
>> because of fumigations which would mean that the room had held a much
>> higher concentration of HCN for a much longer period of time than
>> would be necessary to kill humans.
>(1) In the first place (based on my recollections) his
>conjecture about original fumigation was made in a very
>offhand way.
Which means what? That he didn't really think that was the case?
Then why include it in the report to begin with?
>(2) In the second place what he suggested was a one-off
>fumigation, not a consistent series of fumigations.
And had no basis for such an assertion, since he did not test a room
that had been only fumigated once -- that *should* have been his
control.
>(3) In the third place, his suggesting a possible one-off
>fumigation was not connected with his belief that it needed
>more to kill people than to kill lice. It was his attempt to
>account for even the very small traces found there.
And failing because of his ignorance of the properties of HCN.
>(4) It is not clear what point the paragraph attempts to
>make.
That L shot himself in the foot with this claim that he couldn't even
support with his data, another example of his incompetence.
>> If a room can be fumigated, people can be killed in it.
>True; so what?
And yet L claimed that they could not.
>> >> 3. The Cracow group tested four types of environments:
>> >> a. a living barracks, known to have been once fumigated during the 1942
>> >> typhus epidemic;
>> >> b. the underground detention cells of Block 11 where an experimental
>> >> gassing of Soviet POWs with Zyklon-B was implemented in September 1941;
>> >> c. gas chamber ruins, foundations, and restorations;
>> >> d. fumigation chambers.
>> >>
>> >> Testing for cyanide ions, which have a molecular weight which is about
>> >> 1/30 that of Prussian Blue, and using a detection threshold of 1.0 µg/kg,
>> >> they obtained:
>> >> a. consistent zero readings for the once fumigated living barracks;
>> >> b. readings ranging from 0 to 30 µg/kg for the site of the single
>> >> experimental gassing;
>> >> c. readings ranging from 0 to 600 µg/kg for the gas chamber sites;
>> >> d. readings ranging from 0 to 900 µg/kg for the fumigation chamber sites.
>> >So?
>> So leuchter's claim that the traces were from a single fumigation is
>> demonstrated to be in error
>Why?
"a living barracks, known to have been once fumigated during the 1942
typhus epidemic" which showed no trace at all, even using the much
lower threshold the Krakow team did.
>>, which he would have known had he selected a proper control.
>THere is no universal rule about what is a good control and
>what is not. A good choice is a matter of both the
>experimenter's judgement and just what it is he is trying to
>find out.
>
>Leuchter was NOT trying to determine if the exec chamber had
>EVER been exposed to ANY HCN. He was trying to determine if
>it had been subjected to the sort of exposure that would
>necssarily resulted from the lethal gassings of aroun 100K
>or 200K humans.
But he had no idea of the baseline exposure. What if something about
the way in which the bricks had been made caused them to show positive
all by themselves for Prussian Blue? Or conditions during
construction? L also went into the experiment not knowing what sort
of exposure would have resulted, since he thought that it took more to
kill humans than lice. These mistakes at the very least caused him to
choose an invalid control.
>Given that object, the fumigation chamber traces were
>perhaps not the best sort of control possible but it was the
>best AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME.
No, it was not.
>A better one would be to begin
>with an unexposed room and subject it to expoures
>approximating to what you claim was done in the execution
>chambers.
And a better one would be what the Krakow team used -- a room with
known exposure in terms of frequency, duration and concentration.
Limiting those variables, you know?
>> >> 4. Further experiments indicated that the nature of the construction
>> >> materials and exposure to water and sunlight played a role in the
>> >> formation and retention of cyanide compounds.
>> >> > --Oh, you have to understand they were looking for entirely
>> >> > different things.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have to admit, they have covered all their retreats.
>> >> They were professionals, Leuchter was an amateur.
>No polemic, please.
Fact. Deal with it.
>> >Professionals, meaning they got results more to your liking.
>> No, professionals, meaning they did it properly.
<deletions>
>> >> > In his testimony, he talked about the depth-of-issue but
>> >> > admitted that it depended on such factors as material,
>> >> > moisture, porosity, etc. But that is NOT what he said after
>> >> > the trial. After the trial --having an ass that needed
>> >> > covering-- he said it could penetrate only to that certain
>> >> > depth, PERIOD. As said, I don't trust people who change
>> >> > their stories.
>> >> Nevertheless, what he said during his testimony indicated that Leuchter's
>> >> sampling technique as well as the analytical procedures, based as they
>> >> were on Leuchter's imprecise and misleading instructions, failed to take
>> >> crucial factors into account.
>If that is the case you have failed miserably in attempting
>to support it.
Nope -- you just refuse to be educated on the matter. Again.
<deletions>
>> >> > > They did *not* get much the same sort of values, as they were testing
>> >> > > for another substance altogether than leuchter.
>> >> > THey got very much the same concentration values. Now,
>> >> > regarding this altogether different substance. Supposing you
>> >> > tell us just what that substance was. Is it something that
>> >> > results from the interaction of HCN gas with iron and
>> >> > brick/stone material?
>> >> >
>> >> > --If it is then I hardly see how we can call it "altogether
>> >> > different>"
>> >> >
>> >> > --If it is not, then it is obviously of no value in dealing
>> >> > with the question: were there mass gassings at A-B.
>> >> > Moreover, I'd call it an astonishing coincidence that, in
>> >> > testing for this altogether different substance, they got
>> >> > virtually the same numbers.
>> >> 1. The Cracow team was testing for cyanide ions, a necessary structural
>> >> component of *any* cyanide compound, Leuchter was testing for Prussion
>> >> Blue, one of several cyanide compounds that could have formed.
>> >Yess, and in testing for Prussian Blue he gon enormously
>> >large concentrations in the fumigation chamber, a place we
>> >KNOW was subjected to very high exposure. Now you are trying
>> >to tell me it was the wrong thing to lkkk for and I don't
>> >believe you.
>> Because your ideology
>We will leave my ideology out of this. I have an deology; so
>do you.
We cannot leave it out -- it's why you will not allow yourself to
believe the facts.
>> will not allow you to see that it would be
>> stupid to look for a substance that only sometimes forms after
>> exposure to HCN, and smart to look for one that always does.
>Tell me all the cases you know of where a room was subjected
>to very heavy and repeated HCN exposures and yet did NOT
>exhibit large traces of Prusian blue.
Looks at the pictures of the fumigation chambers. Were the walls
uniformly blue? No? That means, independent of the work done by the
Krakow team that *anyone* with eyes can determine that the formation
is not uniform.
>> >> 2. The numbers obtained by the Cracow team cannot be compared with the
>> >> numbers obtained by Leuchter since they were testing for a totally
>> >> different substance and using a far lower detection threshold.
>> >If the results cannot be compared then you have no basis for
>> >saying that one set were more valid than the other.
>> Wrong. And if you had had the scientific training you claim to have
>> had you would know it. leuchter's mistakes remain mistakes regardless
>> of anything anyone else ever does.
>It is not the wisest tactic to use Jewish-type intellectual
>oneupmanship on a man who, being himself Jewish, is very
>familiar with it and regards it with the contempt which is
>all that it deserves.
>
>My professional training, it is true, was in mechanical and
>electronic engineering - not chemical. But in the process I
>acquired two things that have bearing.
>
>(1) A strong notion of the Scientific Method
>
>(2) Extensive language skill.
>
>These two, taken jointly, give me a certain facility for
>spotting horseshit.
>
>I quote your ssentence: "And if you had had the scientific
>training you claim to have had ..."
>
>Dear friend, if you are unable to make your case to a
>technically literate adult with two engineering degrees,
>then you don't HAVE a case.
I have no proof that you have any degrees at all, and plenty of proof
that you will subordinate fact to your ideological needs.
If an experiment is bad, like L's was, it is bad. Nothing else need
be done but detail the errors.
You have admitted to one in this post, let's see if your need to deny
the gassing allows you to stick with that or back pedal.
>> >> > > In addition, they
>> >> > > used a valid control, which allowed them to completely put the lie to
>> >> > > leuchter's lie about why any of his samples returned a positive.
>> >???????
>> He said that they were positive because of a single fumigation. Had
>> he selected a proper control, as the Krakow team did, he'd have known
>> that this was incorrect.
>> >> > You puzzle me. To the extent that Leuchter's samples showed
>> >> > what you call "positives," it favours your side of the
>> >> > argument. Therefore, I cannot see what you cal them "lies"
>> >> > that must be refuted.
>> >> They are not "lies" that must be refuted, they are nonsense - "absurd
>> >> theories" as David Irving has subsequently characterized them -
>> >> masquerading as science and which must be shown to be the garbage that
>> >> they are.
>No polemic, please.
None was employed.
>> >So you say. I find you intensely articulate but not very
>> >convincing.
>> >
>> >If you wish to master the art of convincing people who may
>> >be less knowledgeable than yourself, you must first gain
>> >their trust. You have not gained mine.Indeed, you shatter it
>> >when you use phrases like "absurd theories."
>> If the shoe fits...
<deletions>
>> >> > It was not Revisionists who told us the lie about 4M killed
>> >> > at A/B.
>> >> No, it was the Soviets who gave that figure as a rough ballpark estimate a
>> >> few weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz in 1945. The number was shown
>> >> to be too high as early as 1946, but, of course, only after more
>> >> considered analysis.
>> >Don't tell ME about that 4M figure. It was not a "rough
>> >ballpark estimate"; it was a deliberate goddam lie.
>> >
>> >And what happened after your "more considered analysis?" We
>> >still got it and got it and got it. You don't really expect
>> >the Jews to let go of a gem like that, do you?
>> And just how did we "get it and get it and get it?"
>From the very largely Jewish-controlled media; how else?
And we have agreed in the past that the media is not a reliable source
for historical fact. Can you point out any *scholarly* work that uses
this figure? Surely, since you maintain that all historians toe the
party line, you can find at least one that did not throw that out and
start from scratch...
>> >> > It vas not Revisionists who have over the past 40 years
>> >> > given us A-B death figures that have ranged as high as 9M.
>> >> Obviously it *was* some revisionist in the generic sense of the word :-)
>> >No word games, please. In the present context Revisionist
>> >means someone who does not believe there were gas chambers.
>> >We'll stick to that.
>> Okay -- who specifically gave a figure of 9 mil?
>The documentary film Nuit et Brouillard (Tr.'s Note: "Night
>and Fog", title used in the English-speaking world) (1955),
>whose historical advisers were the historian Henri Michel and the woman
>historian Olga Wormser-Migot
And your proof that they specifically endorsed that figure? Advisors
advise, but do not dictate content.
>> >> > It was not Revisionists who told us there were death camps
>> >> > in Metropolitan Germany.
>> >> There *were* death camps in Metropolitan Germany.
>> >>
>> >> Auschwitz-Birkenau, a dedicated extermination center and thus a death camp
>> >> by any definition, was on territory which was incorporated into the Reich
>> >> after having been annexed from Poland.
>> >A-B is in territory that
>> >
>> >--Was not part of Germany before the war
>> >--Did not become part of germany in the postwar settlement
>> >--Did not become part of Germany after unification
>> >--Is not inhabited promarily by Germans
>> >
>> >No clever word games, please.
>> But *was* part of Germany during the war. Eugene's not the one
>> playing word games here...
Will you acknowledge that A/B was part of Germany during the time it
was used as a concentration camp?
>> >> Mauthausen, where thousands of people were gassed, was in Austria, part of
>> >> the Reich between 1938 and 1945.
>> >So you claim.
>> So the facts show.
>What "facts?"
http://www.mauthausen-memorial.at/db/admin/int/kz.php?l_id=6
>If I'm unconvinced there were any gasings at A-B, why should
>I believe there were any at any other place.
IOW -- I'll deny those, too...
>> >> Ravensbrück, 70 kilometers north of Berlin, had a gas chamber where
>> >> children and babies were gassed during the last months of the camp.
>> >So you claim
>> No, so the facts show.
>What "facts?"
http://www.ravensbrueck.de/english/camp/index.htm
>If I'm unconvinced there were any gasings at A-B, why should
>I believe there were any at any other place.
IOW -- I'll deny those, too...
>> >> Stutthof, Neuengamme, and Sachsenhausen all had gas chambers and were
>> >> located in the Reich.
>> >No man has a greater passion to indict the Nazis than Siman
>> >Wiesenthal, yet he admits there were no death camps in
>> >Metropolitan Germany. Who should I believe?
>> It a question of semantics.
>SEMANTICS? Is there any dispute over the meaning of mass
>lethal gassings?
No, over the use of the term "death camps." As Eugene explains below.
>> As has been explained to you before, and
>> Eugene has done so once again below.
>> >> Mauthausen, Ravensbrück, Stutthof, Neuengamme, and Sachsenhausen were not
>> >> "death camps" sensu stricto, but they were all facilities at which people
>> >> were exterminated by gassing and thus death camps in the wider sense.
See? There it is...
>> >> The euthanasia centers Bernburg, Brandenburg, Graffeneck, Hadamar,
>> >> Hartheim castle, and Sonnenstein were not "camps", but rather facilities.
>> >> They were run by the RSHA, the same agency that ran the concentration
>> >> camps and death camps.
>> >> > It was not Revisionists who fed us soap-from-human-fat story
>> >> Experiments to render soap from fat were conducted at Stutthof
>> >> concentration camp near danzig.
>> >Experiments. But that's not what the Jews told us. We were
>> >led to believe that it was carried out on a mass basis.
>> Because the Nazis used the threat to terrorize new arrivals at the
>> camps.
>Terrorize???
Yes.
>According to what you people have told me,new arrivals at
>A-B had already beet chosen either to work in the factories
>or to go to the gas chambers.
>
>So which group was "terrorized?"
>
>--The peopre slated for the gal chambens? To what possible
>end?
>
>--The people slated for the factories. Strange kind of a
>morale builder.
They were not looking for morale. they were looking for scared people
who would do what they were told to do.
>> >> > It was not Revisionists who fed us the
>> >> > lampshades-from-human-skin story
>> >> Such artefacts were found in the possession of Ilse Koch, the "Bitch of
>> >> Buchenwald". They were used as evidence at her post-war trial and are
>> >> presently in the holdings of the National Institutes of Health and the
>> >> national Archives. According to the US Army pathologist who examined them
>> >> they were tanned human skin.
>> >Gen Lucius Clay went on record as saying that the thing was
>> >not of human skin.
>> Here we go again. Did Clay actually examine the items? And what
>> *were* his qualifications for making such a determination, anyway?
>High-ranking generals have staffs to help with this and with
>that, each one being a specialist in something. Obviously
>Clay got that from one of his staff.
Can you prove this assumption? Because it is incorrect. Let's see if
you can find how Clay did arrive at this determination...
>Until it's proven to be
>otherwise, I'll asume that the man was competent to make the
>judgement he did.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-04.html
>> >Furthermore, the Jews did all they could to make us believe
>> >that it was carried out on a mass basis.
>> Which you can prove, right, with citations to the numerous books and
>> so forth where this claim was advanced?
No? Then you will retract it?
>> >> > So., please yourself but I think you would be unwise to turn
>> >> > this thing into a veracity contest.
>> >> Aren't you the one who is playing games? Nobody could expect the first
>> >> estimate of deaths at Aschwitz to be accurate.
>And why not. Whon we hear numbers about such things we are
>entitled to assume that the people who give them to us did
>some serious looking into the matter. Without that they have
>no business making such pronunciamentos.
What was the death toll announced on 9/12? What do we know it now to
be?
>> >> The initial Soviet estimate
>> >> was based on limited knowledge of the operation and history of the camp,
>> >> and at least got the order ofmagnitude right. The soap-from-human fat and
>> >> human lampshade stories are isolated incidents and are examples of Nazi
>> >> barbarity, but really have nothing to do with the deliberate killing of
>> >> Jews or Gypsies. the fat or skin could have come from anyone. The claim
>> >> that there were no death camps in Metropolitan Germany is sloppily worded
>> >> and needs clarification of the terms "death camp" and "Metropolitan
>> >> Germany". The borders of the Reich changed between 1938 and 1945, and many
>> >> of the camps, both within and outside the Reich were "death camps" because
>> >> the majority of the internees died there. In any case, Ravensbrück was
>> >> within Metropolitan Germany by any definition, and a gas chamber was built
>> >> there in 1945 where several thousand people were put to death, so that
>> >> qualifies as a "death camp in Metropolitan Germany" in my book.
<deletions>
>> >> > THe room you described may have had the capability of
>> >> > executing the victims. But, to the extent you have delcribd
>> >> > it, it would not have had the capability to do this and at
>> >> > the same time assuring the health and safety of the
>> >> > operating personnel. This was an important point in the
>> >> > Leuchter Report.
>> >> But Leuchter claimed that the cyanide residues resulted from a fumigation.
>> >> How could it be fumigated, a far more hazardous operation than gassing,
>> >> without assuring the health and safety of the operating personnel.
>> >THere were fumigation chambers and there were alleged
>> >execution chambers. Leuchter made extensive comments on the
>> >second but not on the first. In other words he never stated
>> >that the fumigation chambers had protective facilities but
>> >other investigators have.
>> You miss the point entirely. He claimed that a room that could
>> contain a concentration of HCN for a period of time sufficient to kill
>> lice could not contain the much lower concentration of HCN for the
>> mush shorter period of time required to kill humans.
>To the extent of my knowledge, he claimed no such thing.
Yes, he did, when he attributed the traces he found to a fumigation
(which incidentally took place before the gas chambers were even
built...)
>He denied that the alleged execution chamber was what it was
>claimed to have been for two reasons:
>
>(1) The wall concentrations were too low
Based on his ignorance of the difference between fumigation and
killing humans with HCN
>(2) It did not have any of the features and devices that
>would hae been necessary to preserve the health of the
>operating personnel.
Which he based on an ignorance of the differing design goals of the
two types of gas chambers
>> >> > This was an important point in the Leuchter Report.
>> >> No, this is one of the "absurd theories" in the Leuchter report, owing to
>> >> Leuchter's failure to understand that it is far more hazardous to fumigate
>> >> a room than it is to kill people in a room.
>No polemic, please.
None was used.
>> >> 1. Can you tell us why the questions that *I* have been asking for
>> >> weeks and you have been running from giving substantive answers to
>> >> necessarily take back seat to evidence of gassing that has been
>> >> presented you before?
>> >If you have questions you want answered, present them and
>> >I'll do the best I can.
>> No, you ran from them saying that you would not discuss them until you
>> had been presented with evidence of gassing -- evidence which you had
>> already dismissed.
>>
>> Why do you think you can get away with lying about your own words?
Or do you think that if you just ignore the lie it cease to be one?
>> >If you want to talk about evidnce of mass gassings, then
>> >present your case and we'll talk about that. I do not see
>> >any connection between the two.
>> Nor did I, which is why I wondered how you could justify your "no
>> tickee, no shirtee" tantrum.
>Tantrum? Hardly. It was spoken in the calmest tone
>imagineable.
And your justification for it, given that you have admitted that there
is no connection between the two? And then maybe you'll answer number
one above...
>> >> 2.
<quote>
>> >> >> >> > >> >> >And if you had a modicum of common sense to go with your
>> >> >> >> > >> >> >righteous indignation, you would further know that, for the
>> >> >> >> > >> >> >Israelis, the degree and extent of their meddling in
>> >> >> >> > >> >> >american polotics is about the LAST thing they would wish to
>> >> >> >> > >> >> >make public.
>> >> >> >> > >> >> And so, since you have claimed you cannot know what the actual numbers
>> >> >> >> > >> >> are, on what are you basing your claim?
</quote>
>> >Numbers of what?
>> I guess "context" is another thing you learned so well in school you
>> feel you never have to apply the knowledge of.
>>
>> The numbers in question are the amount of money spent by Israel in
>> lobbying Congress.
>I can tell you that an animal caught in the clamped jaws of
>a crocodile has zero chance of escape; yet I cannot tell you
>the number of pounds of force being exerted.
Your analogy breaks down because you specifically made a claim about
the force being exerted.
>I can tell you that a stationary auto struck by an 80 mph
>express train is going to be demolished; yet I cannot tell
>you the number of foot-pounds of energy in the impact.
Your analogy breaks down because you specifically made a claim about
the energy being produced.
>I can tell you that disastrous flods on the Ohio river used
>to be a not-infrequent happening; but I cannot tell you the
>flow in gallons/minute.
Your analogy breaks down because you specifically made a claim about
the amount of water.
And answer the question, if you would?
>> >> 3. Since you have claimed you *cannot* know what the actual numbers
>> >> are, on what are you basing your claim regarding the effects on Israel
>> >> of a cessation of American aid?"
>> >i have already answered that.
>> Not substantively, you haven't. And I quote:
>> >> >> >I have not tried and do not intend to try.
>> Which lie was exposed simply by pointing you to your own words of a
>> few days prior, to whit:
>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >Cut off those subsidies and Israel would be far too busy
>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >surviving economically to be able to spend money on American
>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >congresional candidates.
>> Realizing you would look extremely foolish to continue your lie (but
>> neither acknowledging it nor apologizing,) you attempted:
>> >> >> >I know that every year there are certain number of cases of
>> >> >> >shark attacks on humans. I do not need to know the exact
>> >> >> >number in order to be aware that it is unwise to swim in
>> >> >> >waters known to be infested with them.
>> But you claim was a specifically quantitative one, for which you have
>> admitted the quantities are unknown. To use your analogy, this would
>> be like stating a specific chance expressed as a percentage of being
>> attacked. Without knowledge of the numbers involved, you cannot make
>> such a claim.
>>
>> So why do you try to do so with the Israeli budget?
>>
>> But that's not all -- you also "answered" with:
>> >It was a view expressed to me by several Israelis during the
>> >time I lived there. I am inclined to think they were more
>> >knowledgeable about their country's affairs than you are.
>> Which was the *third* justification you have offered for your claim.
>>
>> Why should it be any more believable than the first two?
>Let's slow down here. You're talking as if it were a matter
>of importance to me that you agree with me. I assure you
>that it is of no importance whatever.
Nope. I'm talking as if I am exposing that you will say pretty much
whatever pops into your head to say, as long as it advances your
ideology no matter what the facts of the matter are.
Now: You have made a definitive quantitative statement about the
Israeli budget, and have acknowledged that you do not and cannot have
the specific numbers involved. Given these facts, on what did you
base your claim about the Israeli budget?
>> What qualifications did these "Israelis" have to make such statements,
>> given your assertion that the specific numbers can never be known, and
>> what facts do you offer that (even if this is not another of your
>> lies) the same situation pertains today?
>> >> 4. You claim that I resemble a Jew of the worst type: the type that
>> >> feels that because they HAVE mouths, those mouths must be kept going -
>> >> never mind what is coming out. Which is demonstrably how you
>> >> pontificate on matters you later admit no knowledge of.
>> >I have a pretty good idea of both the short and the
>> >long-term effects of Jewish politicking in America and I
>> >have no hesitation in saying that we'd be much better off
>> >without it.
>> Which justifies you condemning in others what you yourself are guilty
>> of?
Well? Does it?
>> And tell us, what are the short and long term effects of "Jooish
>> politicking" and don't forget to demonstrate with more than bald
>> assertion that the politicking you have a problem with is specifically
>> or even mostly Jooish in nature.
>The electoral defeats of several congressmen who they felt
>were no longer supporting their interesrs. Examples are
>McCloskey and Fulbright.
And you can prove that the reason they were defeated was due to
specifically Jooish intervention, and that there was no other possible
reason for the voters in their districts to have run them out?
>The huge annual largesse we give to them even now at a time
>when that money could be far more justifiably be spent at
>home.
And yet you never mention any other country to which we give foreign
aid. Why is that? Egypt gets almost as much, yet I have never heard
you so much as mention them. Why is that?
>THe erection and maintaining (at public expense) a large
>Holocaust memorial museum purportedly commemorating events
>which did not take place on American soil and did not
>involve any Americans. THere is no more place for a thing
>like that in our nation's capital than there would be for a
>similar structure commemorating the St. Bartholomew's Day
>Massacre.
Yet another example of phillips ideology blinding him to the facts.
Other than the land having been donated to the museum, all funds for
planning, constructing and equipping the Museum were raised
exclusively from private, tax deductible contributions (as required by
law.)
>The machinations of Jewish so-called neo-conservatives who
>manipulated us into making war on a Middle Eastern nation
>less than one-tenth our size. We're going to regret that
>dearly.
And of course, you can *prove* that without these "machinations"
(which you will no doubt enumerate for us while showing that they were
specifically Jooish in nature) that the war on Iraq would never have
happened?
>The Jewish power and influence that caused the Johnson admin
>to both prevent help from reaching the USS Liberty and then
>to lie through its teeth about the attack.
You can prove these claims and document the Jooish nature of the
influence using ***facts***, right?
>The Jewish power and influence that caused Jewish Treasury
>officials to lend aid and support to Jewish extortion
>schemes against European bankers.
Are you maybe referring to the returning of funds to the descendants
of those from which they were stolen? In what way does this qualify
as extortion?
>Believe me: America would be much much better off without
>its Jews
Because of course Abigail Franks, Samuel Gompers, Lillian Wald, Albert
Einstein, Leonard Bernstein, Hyman Rickover, Henry Kissinger, Samuel
Gompers, Isaac Bashevis Singer, Arthur Miller, Allen Ginsburg, Emma
Lazarus, Joseph Pulitzer, Irving Berlin, Aaron Copeland, George
Gershwin, Marvin Hamlisch, Stephen Sondheim, and Art Garfunkel, Danny
Kaye, George Burns, Harry Houdini, Al Johnson, Milton Berle, Zero
Mostel and the Marx Brothers, Casimir Funk, Jonas Salk, Harold E.
Varmus, Jerome I. Friedman, Harry M. Markowitz, J. Robert Oppenheimer,
Isaac Asimov, Selman Waksman, David Dubinsky -- none of these poeple
ever did anything of any lasting value for the country...
>> >> Why the double standard?
>Why haven't you hired a new gag-writer? It's about time you
>did.
Because in this forum I do not use gags -- I use your words with are
almost as funny as you're trying to squirm around them (that is, when
the spectacle doesn't get downright pathetic...)
>> >??????
>> Which of the words didn't you understand: You yourself demonstrably
>> do what you condemn in others.
>>
>> What justifies this double standard?
We're still waiting for an answer here, phillips....
>> >> 5. . You stated very clearly your objection was foreign financing of
>> >> lobbying efforts. You then go on to say that you disapprove even of
>> >> such efforts by American Jews financed by themselves. So it's not
>> >> "foreign meddling" you object to -- why did you lie about that?
>> >I object to both.
>> And asked to detail your objection to lobbying efforts on behalf of
>> Israel, you first tried to frame in solely in terms of foreign
>> meddling. Why can't you just admit that you do not like the lobbying
>> because it is on behalf of Israel. You've never mentioned objections
>> to the general idea of lobbying by other countries, even in general
>> lobbying paid for by other countries.
>To repeat: I object to any and all foreign meddling in our
>affairs.
And to repeat: this would be a lot more believable if you had even
*once* objected to any other country's "meddling." It's obvious that
the problem is Israel (and that because of the Jooos.) Why do you
find it so hard to admit it?
>> Why single out Israel?
>Because at the moment they are far and away the most
>egregious offender in this regard.
If it is a general problem you have, why have you never even once
complained about anyone else?
>> >> 6. How do you justify equating Nazi Germany's funding of Hoffman and
>> >> his misuse of the mailing privilege of congressmen with the supposed
>> >> financing of lobbying efforts on the part of Israel, when you
>> >> admittedly have no information on at least one of them?
>> >I have already told you -- twice or maybe even three times--
>> >that I am not prepared to coment on the Clare Hoffman
>> >business because I just do not know the facts of it.
>> The point is (for the third or fourth time) that you ***did*** comment
>> on it, even tho you did not know the facts of it. Isn't that rather
>> like the person that "feels that because they HAVE mouths, those
>> mouths must be kept going - never mind what is coming out?"
>>
>> And given that it is exactly that, why the double standard?
phillips cannot answer.
>> >> Because it certainly looks like the reason is because in one case it
>> >> was the Nazis and in the other Israel. Can you even begin to justify
>> >> the double standard?
>> >There isn't one. I object to ALL foreign meddling in our
>> >politics.
>> And yet the only one you ever complain about is Israel. I will go
>> further: the only one you have *ever* complained about was Israel.
>> And when given evidence of a much more serious level of meddling
>> (being that we were at war with the country in question) your response
>> (even tho by your own admission, you had no knowledge of the matter)
>> was "So, what?"
>>
>> This hardly seems to be a general objection to "foreign meddling."
>>
>> Why the double standard?
>> >> 7. Given that I am referring to legal acts, why do you do nothing but
>> >> whine here about these problems you see rather than do anything about
>> >> them?
>> >What exactly do you mean by "whine?"
>> Main Entry: whine
>>
>> 1 a : to utter a high-pitched plaintive or distressed cry b : to make
>> a sound similar to such a cry <the wind whined in the chimney>
>>
>> 2 : to complain with or as if with a whine
>>
>> Number two is obviously the one that applies.
>>
>> Answer the question: Given that I am referring to legal acts, why do
>> you do nothing here but complain as if with a whine about these
>> problems you see rather than do anything about them?
>Acts can be legal yet at the same time very much against
>American interests.
Which, once again, does not answer the question: Why do you do
nothing here but complain as if with a whine about these problems you
see rather than do anything about them?
>> >> 8. And why do you advocate illegal acts which you are not yourself
>> >> prepared to commit?
>> >The American Revolution was "illegal."
>> Nope. A revolution is always legal in the first person (our
>> revolution.) It is only in the third person (their revolution) that
>> it becomes illegal.
>Stop talking nonsense. A revolution is illegal: always,
>period, by definition.
>
>THus Ben Franklin's famous remark: "Let us all hang
>together; otherwise we shall most assuredly hang seperately.
Funny that: The above was *also* a quote from Uncle Benny.
>> >A man of 80 may have
>> >been in favour of it and yet not be physically capable of
>> >taking an active part. Is it your position that, on account
>> >of his age, he ought to have remained a Tory?
>> Nope, but he would have almost certainly have done what he could.
>Maybe he did all he could.
>> Are you unable to hold and aim a gun? Incapable of inciting a lynch
>> mob? Some physical disability which prevents you from holding a
>> knife?
>Let's say that, given my present age and physical condition,
>I would not be the first choice of someone recruiting
>==say== a guerilla team.
Not my point. You were not always a borderline senile. Why did you
never once actually *do* any of the things you have advocated in terms
of violent resistance? All hat and no cattle seems to have been your
pattern from the very start...
>> >> 9. You are demonstrably wrong in your claims about my use of the word
>> >> "irrational," which you claim I use anytime someone disagrees with me.
>> >> Why will you not retract and apologize?
>> >Because there is no call to do either.
>> So even tho you are demonstrably wrong, it is perfectly okay for you
>> to cast aspersions?
>DEE-monstrably.
Then you have lost the right to complain about the civility of
questions put to you, liar.
>> >> 10. On the topic of my supposed Joooishness, why do you have such a
>> >> need for me to be what I am not?
>> >No need at all.
>> Then why do you keep making the claim after having been corrected on
>> it several times?
>Because it is so appropriate.
Because it reinforces your bigotry to assume that anyone who points
out your irrationality must be a member of the hated group.
>> >> 11. You offer as support for your delusions regarding the Immigration
>> >> Act of 1965 chapter 7 of "A Culture of Critique," and yet cannot
>> >> respond to the fact that this chapter does not contain the demographic
>> >> data a reasonable person would need to reach those conclusions.
>> >Nothing for ME to respond to.
>> Why not?
>> >You claim that that particular chapter lacks supporting
>> >demographic data and yet fail to give any reason for me to
>> >believe that you have so much as read the book.
>> Yes I have -- the fact that I have pointed out that the chapter in
>> question lacks the data in question.
>>
>> You could support your dodge that I have not read the book by posting
>> the data in question.
>>
>> One wonders why you have not done so?
And yet *still* no data from phillips.
>> >Now I'll tell you what you do. Cite a particular paragraph
>> >in that chapter and then point out the sort of supporting
>> >data it should have but does not have.
>> From the preface (again, I do not have the volume with me on the road,
>> but this will suffice, being basically a summary of his claims in that
>> chapter)
>>
>> "In the case of the reversal in U.S. immigration policy, there simply
>> were no other pressure groups that were pushing for liberalized,
>> multi-racial immigration during the period under consideration (up to
>> the enactment of the watershed immigration bill of 1965). Nor were
>> there any other groups or intellectual movements besides the ones
>> mentioned in CofC that were developing images of the U.S. as a
>> multi-cultural, multi-ethnic society rather than a European
>> civilization."
>I HAVE the book.
Then why do you not post the demographic data you claim it contains?
>I have just LOOKED AT both the preface to the entire book
>AND the preface to Chapter 7.
>
>THere are no such sentences in either one.
This was from the preface to the original paperback edition,
documented here:
http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/Preface.htm
(free hint: the "~kmacd" indicates this is MacDonald's own site.)
>> Supporting data would include surveys indicating that non-Jewish
>> sentiment was as MacDonald describes.
>The only way you can plausibly challenge what he said wuld
>be to cite a non-Jewish group that DID actively and
>effectively support open immigration.
No, you're wrong: I can challenge it on the basis that I have: the
basis that MacDonald offers no hard data whatever to support his
claims, preferring anecdotal vignettes.
You have shown yourself to be completely unable to cite such data,
either from MacDonald or in your own right.
As to your "only way," well, neither Kennedy who proposed it, nor
Johnson who championed it were Jews. Ditto Celler and Feighan who
introduced it to Congress. And it was supported by all major civil
rights organizations.
>Just what was he supposed to do? Investigate each of the
>thousands of non-Jewish groups including
>
>--The Rosicrucians
>
>--The Womens' Christian Temperance Union
>
>--The Society for the Preservation and Encouragement of
>Barbershop Quartet Singing in America
No, he was supposed to have hard data to support his claims, or he was
supposed to have at the very least stated that his claims were opinion
only.
>> Instead, MacDonald relies on
>> anecdotes, such as quoting Stephen Steinlight as mentioning altering
>> “the traditional policy line [of the organized Jewish community]
>> affirming generous—really, unlimited—immigration and open borders."
>>
>> Two problems: the insertion of the editorial "of the organized Jewish
>> community" and it's suggestion that this statement applies to anything
>> but one man's opinion of the direction of a specific organization to
>> which he belongs.
>>
>> The ball's in your court phillips: can you show where MacDonald
>> provides such demographic data, or can you yourself supply it?
>I don't admit that any is needed and I've told you why.
No, you haven't. Why should such claims as MacDonald's be accepted in
the absence of hard data?
>> >> If you cannot do so, why continue to cite MacDonald?
>> >Because he is such an excellent source on such matters.
>> Excellent by phillips standards: he agrees with phillips.
>> >> 12. Do *you* recall every page number of every book you've ever read?
>> >Hardly.
>> >> If not, why do you expect that I (or anyone else) will?
>> >I was challenging whether you had ever read the book.
>> Quite lamely
>> >IF you had, it would be because you had bought it
>> So there's no possibility that I could have borrowed a copy from a
>> friend or a library?
???
>> >and IF you had bought it, you would still have it in your possession,
>> And there's no possibility that I sold it, that it got stolen, that it
>> burned in a house fire, that it is in storage and not readily
>> accessible or that (the truth, as has been pointed out to you) that my
>> job takes me on the road a good deal of the time, and this is not a
>> volume I carry with me nationwide?
???
>> >and
>> >IF you had it in your possion, you would have been able to
>> >cite page numbers. But you couldn't.
>> And it was explained to you why. Yet you still claim that the only
>> possible scenarios are either I never read it, or I still own it.
Are you going to acknowledge that the other possibilities I have
enumerated above are not even the only reasons I might have read the
book and still not be able to cite a specific page number today?
>> >> 13. In the light of your claim re: Case and the training you
>> >> underwent there, how do you justify your apparent complete inability
>> >> to understand the concept of "control sample" and why Leuchter's
>> >> choice rendered his study worthless for the data he hoped to
>> >> demonstrate?
>> >Your question (really more of an accusation) is like the
>> >question: When did you cease jerking off with your left
>> >hand. It cannot be answered because it is based upon a false
>> >presupposition.
>> Which false presupposition is that?
>That I do not understand what a control sample is.
You demonstrably do not, or you would not claim that it could be
whatever the experimenter wanted it to be, regardless of the
experiment being conducted and the hypothesis being tested.
>> You demonstrably do not
>> understand the concept of a control sample, stating that it could be
>> whatever the experimenter wanted it to be, regardless of the
>> experiment being conducted and the hypothesis being tested.
>Who should make that choice BUT the experimenter?
The experiment, and the nature of the hypothesis being tested. The
experimenter chooses those, certainly, but they then dictate the
nature of control required.
You'd know this if you understood the concept.
>> It has been pointed out to you that Leuchter's claim that the traces
>> he found were consistent with a room being fumigated "once, long ago"
>> are without basis SINCE BECAUSE HE DID NOT PROPERLY CONTROL HIS
>> EXPERIMENT, HE HAS NO DATA ON THE LEVELS TO BE EXPECTED IN SUCH A
>> ROOM.
>The best choice of a control sample would have been that of
>a room that had been repeatedly subjected to exposures over
>a prolonged time. Given this criteria, the fumigation
>chamber was the best choice available.
No. Since the hypothesis Leuchter hoped to support was that no
gassing at all took place, the *only* valid control would have been a
room either never, or only once exposed. In this way, the number of
variables could be reduced. For example, how does Leuchter know that
the positives he encountered were not a function of the way in which
the room was built? Without a baseline (otherwise known as a valid
control,) he doesn't. Which then taints *any* quantitative
conclusions he might draw.
Once again: Leuchter's claim that the traces he found were consistent
with a room being fumigated "once, long ago" are without basis SINCE
BECAUSE HE DID NOT PROPERLY CONTROL HIS EXPERIMENT, HE HAS NO DATA ON
THE LEVELS TO BE EXPECTED IN SUCH A ROOM.
That you would argue otherwise again demonstrates either dishonesty or
ignorance of the role of a control sample in such an experiment.
>> >> 14. If reciting page numbers is not going to be sufficient for you,
>> >> tell me now what other idiotic requirements you are going to call for.
>> >I will attempt to answer that when you rephrase it in civil
>> >terms.
>> Those were civil.
>No. The word idiotic is NOT civil.
Nor is suggesting that I use "irrationality" as some sort of club
against those that disagree with me.
>>Your claim that the only possible way I could ever
>> have read MacDonald involves my still having ready access to it only
>> takes few moments thought to be disproved.
>>
>> Regardless, you have elucidated other requirements, and I have met
>> them. We'll discuss the preface, with no more of your dodging.
>> >> Then, you can explain why I can't talk about MacDonald (having
>> >> demonstrated knowledge of the work in question)
>> >I do not concede that you have demonstrated any knowledg of
>> >MacDonald's book.
>> So you deny that the seventh chapter contains the claims I have
>> specified, and that only anecdotal evidence is offered?
>I am asking you to take a specific passage in that chapter,
>and tell me what supporting evidence it ought to have but
>does not have.
And I am asking you if you deny my general statements regarding that
chapter and it's lack of hard data.
>> >> but you can
>> >> pontificate upon the Protocols and how closely they model current
>> >> events when you have admitted that you have not read them?
>> >In exactly what ways have I "pontificated" about the
>> >Protocols. Please confine your self to exact quotes.
>> <exact quote>
>>
>> Message-ID: <3E735A15...@mbay.net>
>> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:51:33 -0800
>> From: Richard Phillips <rgp...@mbay.net>
>> Newsgroups:
>> alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.guns,misc.survivalism,alt.revisionism
>> Subject: Re: Henry Ford's book, THE INTERNATIONAL JEW
>>
>> <snip to>
>>
>> WHether the Protocols are genuine or not is not important.
>> What IS important is this: have the world's affairs evolved
>> in pretty much the way the Protocols said they would and
>> should? It seems to me that the answer is that is an
>> emphatic yes.
>>
>> </exact quote>
>> Now, since you have never read them:
>>
>> a) on what do you base your opinion that "the world's affairs evolved
>> in pretty much the way the Protocols said they would and
>> should?"
>I have never read the Protocols but I do know they set forth
>a game pln for ultimate Jewish domination.
Which does not answer the question: on what do you base your opinion
that "the world's affairs evolved in pretty much the way the Protocols
said they would and should?"
>> b) how can you justify your double standard between this and my
>> critique of MacDonald, even if I *hadn't* read the book?
Funny how phillips always seems to forget to answer these questions
about his double standards, innit?
>> >> 15. Finally, what factual evidence do you offer that:
>> >>
>> >> a) all of the Krema were converted for use as air raid shelters,
>> >I don't recall saying "all" of the kremas. What I did say
>> >was taken from postings from Holocaustniks including Eugene
>> >Holman.
>> No, what you said was that the Krema (no qualification) were so
>> converted, and that the HCN detectors were standard equipment for such
>> shelters
>>
>> You further asserted that both "facts" were common knowledge.
What factual evidence do you offer that this was the case?
>> >> b) The HCN monitoring equipment ordered for the Krema were standard
>> >> for such air raid shelters
>> >The items decribed WERE standard items for German air-raid
>> >shelters of that time.
>> You were not asked to restate your assertion, you were asked to
>> provide evidence that such was the case, and that it was common
>> knowledge.
It begins to look like phillips *has* no factual evidence that such
was the case, doesn't it?
>> >> c) the above two "facts" were common knowledge?
>> >Common knowledge among whom. You'll have to dig up the quote
>> >so we can know exactly what was said.
>> I've told you what was said. Your lack of recollection of having so
>> said is fairly common, and not once have I not been able to support my
>> paraphrase of your words, including once in this very post.
>>
>> But frankly, I'm tired of having to prove to you that you said what
>> you said. You have re-asserted one of the three aspects of what you
>> originally stated -- can you even support that?
>>
>> Otherwise, do your own research on the comments you have made about
>> the "air raid shelters" and their standard equipment, and show where
>> my paraphrase is inaccurate.
>>
>> Or run away, again.
Looks like he chose running away.
Quelle surprize.
Roger
(an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
someone claiming to be Richard Phillips wrote
in message <3EF5DBA2...@mbay.net>:
>THe name Jubilation T. Cornpone will probably be unfamiliar
>to most of you. He was a brainchild of Al Capp, the creator
>of Li'l Abner, JTC was a supposed Confederate general, the
>name an obvious takeoff on Jubal Early.
>
>It seems that Li'l Abner's community of Dogpatch had an
>annual Sadie Hawkins day, when the unmarried (and largely
>unmarriagible) females of the town were given free ruin to
>chase the unmarried males and to claim marriage rights with
>anyone they managed to catch.
>
>On one such occasion, two hapless males were close to
>capture and one of them suggested:
>
>"We'll hide behin the solid brass (equestrian) stachoo of
>Ginral Jubilation T. Cornpone. He never fled from anything."
>
>The horse of the statue spied the approaching females and
>galloped off in terror.
Rather like phillips, when he realized he was backing himself into a
Ernst Wilhelm von Tavische
<catamont-49E762...@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
Looks like ad hominem attacks is about all you have left isn't it?
Tavish
From: Sara "The Fist" Salzman
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
:
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End~~
From: Sara "The Fist" Salzman
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience. <END>
Imagine the person in these photos assuming the "duck" position
and "fisting" herself!
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
Sara Salzman
Jubilation T. Cornpone <EWvonT...@TAVISCHE-GMBH.NET> wrote:
First in war, first in peace, first to holler "I quit!"
That's our own JT Cornpone, Scott Bradbury.
Sara
--
My name is not "Fatbury Scumbag" you stupid lying Jew bastard. Name call
is all a pathetic loser like you has! You have yet to prove me wrong
you dirty filthy lying Jew bastard!
--Scott Bradbury, who completely misses the irony of the above
"Show some respect, you ditsy little jew broad."
--Anonymous Moron pretending to be a man of the cloth.
Ernst Wilhelm von Tavische
have more class than she does and I show her literary works and opinions in full
context and unedited. If "The Fist" wants to defame me by twisting my words then
I will show the world what she is with her own writings in full context! The
door swings two ways Sara. You start it as usual and I will finish it which is
my legal and moral right. Tavish
I wait, knowing.
"Kneel."
But not yet.
<END>
This archived header proves Sara Salzman aka Sara Schwartz
aka Sara aka Perrrfect is the wife of Cou...@cris.com:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=2&selm=schwartz-0201960750240001%40cmh-p077.infinet.com
From: schw...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: 1996/01/02
Message-ID: <schwartz-020...@cmh-p077.infinet.com>
organization: Cat's Lair
reply-to: Cou...@cris.com
newsgroups: alt.internet.media-coverage
schw...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>What a bunch of chickenshits at Compuserve for denying access to
>"pornographic" groups because the German government is whining about
>it.
>
>Funny... I don't see the German government getting upset about the
>Nazi groups online.
>
>Compuserve caved. I'm GLAD I get my addess through a provider that
>doesn't play those games.
>
Yes, Compuslop has once again decided they'd rather kow-tow to the
few, rather than stand on any principles. To call them chickenshits is
a bit unfair, however. To chickenshit.
[...]
I have heard that some folks posting on this topic have gotten flamed
for "supporting pedophiles". I don't know which trailer park such
flamers live in or I'd be asking the powers that be for a tornado
about now.
<<Doc Tavish comment April 25, 2003: Notice that Sara's husband also
minimalizes child porn just like NIZKOR.ORG Director Ken McVay does!!
It only figures this "Wild Bunch" would be allies!!>
Cougar
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Now we have 100% proof that cou...@cris.com is Sara's husband. Notice
that the post was made under this account:
From: schw...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: 1996/01/02
Message-ID: <schwartz-020...@cmh-p077.infinet.com>
organization: Cat's Lair
BUT notice it was signed by Cougar and the headers show this:
organization: Cat's Lair
reply-to: Cou...@cris.com
Now I revisit this post made by Sara's husband:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=2&selm=01bc415c%247211d820%24564153ce%40default
From: "Cougar" <cou...@cris.com>
Subject: Re: Is A Switch More Sadistic Than A Sadist
Date: 1997/04/04
Message-ID: <01bc415c$7211d820$564153ce@default>
References: <334d4cd6...@news.praxis.net>
<01bc4036$365e69a0$5241...@crc3.concentric.net>
<334719e5...@news.praxis.net>
Organization: Cat Tales, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.sadistic,alt.torture
rain...@praxis.net wrote in article
<334719e5...@news.praxis.net>...
> "Cougar" <cou...@cris.com> wrote and I had to answer:
> >I'll stand and deliver, for the moment. I am one who did at least
> >_attempt_ to do the other side of the whip in a serious mode. Once. The
> >experiment (for that was what it was) was worse than a failure, as it cost me a
> >friendship.
:
> This one is very sad to hear that it cost you a friend....soemtimes we
> have to separate our friends from our sexuallity...not hide it from
> them, but not engage friends within it unless the friendship has grown
> out of it. Boy did this one make a bastard of that statement. Sadly
> too often when we go to bed with our friends and it does not work out,
> we lose both lover and friend for the relationship can never be the
> same...there that made more sense.
I believe you misunderstand. She was already in the scene. The event
that cost the friendship was the fact that she realized, as did I, who was
really "on top" during the session. She had asked for a massage, which
I delivered. She then asked what was different about what I had done and
a sensual massage. Being from Missouri, I showed her. At the end of that
massage I was clearly in charge and she had orgasmed.
She considered herself domme only.
> <minor snip for space>
> >Under no circumstances would I be able to replicate the experience of
> >being a female masochist in mentality. I wasn't raised female.
:
> Nope and for the most part even those who are...if they are not
> masochistic can not understand for the life of them WHY anyone would
> want to be.
An excellent example of your words are the Anne Rice Beauty stories.
How one can write a few hot scenes but not get the emotions behind them, I
don't know. You gotta be in the head and heart to make it hot in
reality.
> other than to keep the household budget and cook. Now a days there is
> more and more pointed towards young females and the slaves and subs of
> tomorrow may well give the Doms a hell of a run for the money.
>
As the step-father of a five year old domme in training (that is NOT
meant literally, oh yea of political correctness!) I think they'll give the
subs of tomorrow hell, too.
~~End of GOOGLE Archival Excerpt~~
Yep I guess ol' Cougar was kidding but then again who really knows.
Here is an another example of Sara Salzman's childrens' "exposure":
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=01bcb955%24e8324aa0%2440a89bcf%40crc3.concentric.net&output=gplain
From: "Cougar" <cou...@cris.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Bondage
Date: 1997/09/04
Message-ID: <01bcb955$e8324aa0$40a8...@crc3.concentric.net>
References: <340D79B7...@hotmail.com>
Organization: Cat Tales, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.torture
There is a method of having yourself whipped, with a little work.
First, obtain a large household type fan, you may already own one.
Second, a timing device capable of being set to relatively short periods of
time, usually sold to turn lamps on and off in hardware stores. You will
need to have access to a drill, as well.
Open the fan up, taking the guard pieces off. Drill a hole about 1" in
from the tip of each fan blade. Next, take leather strips (boot laces from
any store will work for this) and knot one end through the hole in the fan
blade, leaving about 2 feet of the leather hanging off the end of the
blade.
Set the fan into a position to swing the leather strips so they will
fly parrallel to the floor. Set up the timing device to activate in a few
minutes, then stand within range of the leather strips on the fan
blade.When the power cuts on, the blades will begin to turn, the leather to
fly and you will be whipped by each strip as it passes. Start with the
fan's lowest power, but if that is too mild, set it higher.
Now, you might move away from the fan, so you might also practice some
self bondage to keep you in position, such as bent over a chair with your
ass sticking out where the fan's strips will strike your ass.
It isn't the cane, but that is best weilded by an experienced hand.
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
Here are pictures of Sara Salzman:
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
She looks like she's been under her husband's electric fan torture
device once too often! :-)
PROOFS SARA SALZMAN WAS "(Sara aka Perrrfect)"
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: F. E. Campbell dead
Date: 9 Feb 1995 11:59:22 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <sschwartz-090...@p24.infinet.com>
References: <sschwartz-060...@p01.infinet.com>
<47.266...@hedonism.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.infinet.com
In article <47.266...@hedonism.com>, bill....@hedonism.com (Bill
Majors) wrote:
> Ummm...well here I go betraying my ignorance. What has Geoffrey Merrick
> written. I tend to remember stories, not authors. In fact had I not met
> Frank I would not have realized who he was except that his name was as
> prominant as the title of the books.
>
I don't know much about him, except that he published a series of hardcore
bondage books called the Tyler Series. They were wonderful! I'll try and
dig up the publisher and get back to you.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
<END>
Same e-mail address plus here Sara Salzman is confessing a very vital fact:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-5FB93B.10103425042002%40news.concentric.net&rnum=1
From: Sara <cata...@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Double Standard?
Date: 25 Apr 2002 16:10:36 GMT
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Message-ID: <catamont-5FB93B...@news.concentric.net>
In article <ORDx8.430$6y.3...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>, "Voice of
Reason" <voiceo...@blakely.harrogate.net> wrote:
> Sara used to post as Purrrfect One...
Liar. Never used that name. You've got me confused with someone else,
Father of Lies.
[...]
> or Sara Salzman
Yep. That's my name. I've been using it all my life, except for the time
I was married to my first husband. At that time, I used the name
> or Sara Schwartz aka Perrrfect
the "aka Perrrfect" part, if it's any of your business..
~~End of GOOGLE Archive~~
The above proves that Sara Salzman <cata...@concentric.net> posted
as Sara aka Perrrfect.
Sara Salzman also confessed being Sara Schwartz as shown here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-2504982055590001%40ts008d17.den-co.concentric.net&rnum=1
From: cata...@concentric.net (Sara Salzman)
Subject: Re: Sara Schwartz/Salzman's _Je T'Accuse!_ (was: Jewish Ritual Murder)
Date: 1998/04/25
Message-ID: <catamont-250...@ts008d17.den-co.concentric.net>#1/1
References: <6gjtl1$f...@basement.replay.com>
<6glfrb$5...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <352E51...@earthlink.net>
<6gojdv$e...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <35311...@news.total.net>
<6gum6v$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <3533e...@news.total.net>
<6h1brv$b...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <3538c...@news.total.net>
<6hk9ue$fiu$1...@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
<catamont-220...@ts005d04.lon-co.concentric.net>
<353ff...@news.total.net>
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Mr. Sabatini:
First of all, I'm curious why you felt it necessray to re-name the subject
of this thread. Yes, I used to be Sara Schwartz, when I was married. I
divorced Mr. Schwartz and returned to the use of my maiden name. (Sorry
Gord, I *did* remarry tho... :)
~~End of GOOGLE Archival Excerpt~~
BACK TO THE LITERARY WORKS AND OPINIONS OF SARA "THE FIST" SALZMAN:
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What is power? (was Re: Power Imbalance v. Power Exchange)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 18:00:29 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p55.infinet.com>
References: <1995Jan27.2...@tantalus.clark.net>
<3gha46$p...@panix3.panix.com> <1995Jan30....@tantalus.clark.net>
<3gj06b$n...@crl9.crl.com> <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p55.infinet.com
In article <3gv6bm$4...@crl9.crl.com>, ver...@crl.com (Janet W. Hardy) wrote:
>
> Quick straw poll here: How many people have ever felt totally,
> completely safe during any S/M scene -- safeword or no, light or heavy,
> D/S or sensation-only?
Verdant:
I hate to muddle the semantics further, but...
safe? You mean safe that my Master won't break my leg or suffocate me to
the point of death in a scene?
100%. Period. I know my Master would never cause tha kind of damage.
Safe, as in not getting hurt, or not getting hurt MORE thn I'd LIKE to accept?
Certianly not 100%. Mastercat is always pushing limits, and pushing me to
the edge or slightly farther.
But safe in terms of not getting killed or left in bondage to die alone?
Absolutely 100%. And not only with my own Master, but I feel equally safe
with those other Dom(mes) he has had me play with.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an
excellent target.
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Sex slave looking for couple in D.C.
Message-ID: <sschwartz-220...@p00.infinet.com>
Date: 22 Feb 95 23:45:17 GMT
References: <3hutf0$k...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
<3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: p45.infinet.com
In article <3iajlv$1...@news.cc.geneseo.edu>, (Mindy and Aaron Proietti) wrote:
> Hello Tim. My name is Mindy and I am 23 years old. My husband Aaron and I
> just got married and we are looking for some new excitement in the bedroom. We
> are very interested in your offer, and we would like to get to know you (all of
> you) better. Please write back with a full (and true) description of yourself.
> Hope to hear from you soon. Mindy and Aaron
Mindy:
If you're in Washington, you should join The Power Exchange. It's a local
BBS that's exclusively for SM folks. They're some of the best folks
around. We've met many of the people from the Board personally, and at the
parties they hold. I highly recommend it!
Sara
PS. Sorry to post this publicly. I couldn't respond to you via e-mail from
your address.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End~~
THIS ONE IS A REAL SARA "The Fist" SALZMAN CLASSIC!!!
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Fist Fucking
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p01.infinet.com>
Date: 12 Feb 95 04:19:44 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: p01.infinet.com
By the way... Elbow Grease IS WATER SOLUABLE.
Says so right on the label.
We've found for MANY things, it is "wetter" and slicker than KY.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Fist fucking (1)
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:19:07 GMT
References: <3hf46h$p...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
In article <3hg9a1$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lant...@aol.com (L
Antoniou) wrote:
> Perhaps you should read the messages before responding. If you read all
> of mine, you will see that eventually I do suggest the "duck" position -
> all fingers together. What I (and Elf) was responding to was the
> suggestion that one *begin* fisting in that position. Of course, you go
> on to say *exactly that*.
>
In fact, Laura, I did NOT say you should begin in the "duck" position. I
just stated that it was the eventual position to achieve.
I'm sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. I *did* state that fist
fucking was not something I had done very often, and merely wanted to
impart my own (limited) experience.
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End~~
Imagine the person in these photos assuming the "duck" position and "fisting"
herself!
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/2/image.gif
http://www.westword.com/issues/11209/4/image.gif
I bet Sara keeps her nails clipped or else OUCH!
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: GREAT NEWS!!!
Message-ID: <sschwartz-110...@p14.infinet.com>
Date: 11 Feb 95 13:12:13 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: p14.infinet.com
For those of you who weren't aware of it, SandMUtopia Guardian was on the
block. It looked like we were going to lose it for good.
However:
The Utopian Network (Adam Selene/Adam's Whips) has purchased it!
We've been talking to Gerry this weekend at Anything for Love here in
Columbus (Gerry = Jillian), and she says they have great plans for it!
It will be a quarterly at first, while they get the "hang" of publishing.
NO fiction, just informational articles, photographs, etc.
Lets cross fingers and wish them good luck!
Perrrfect
--
It never rains under my umbrella
Pete Townshend
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What makes someone li
Date: 9 Feb 1995 12:28:37 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sschwartz-090...@p24.infinet.com>
References: <9748WLTQK...@juris.com> <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.infinet.com
In article <3hcclp$j...@news.cerf.net>, eigh...@cyberverse.com (Eightmeg) wrote:
> jmi...@juris.com wrote:
>
>
> : My point about most people being abused was merely a comment....it had
> : no point to make other than to inquire...
>
> My Domina and I have wondered the same thing. My experience is
> that I went to a BBS meeting for a small city and a large portion of the
> people there were, to my dismay, a very unbalanced, retarded looking
> abused lot. I sort of expected the people at an S&M club to be like
> that. But when I went to the S&M club, the people (generally) looked
> normal, bright, intelligent, balanced and attractive!
>
What small city? Those of us who live in small cities and who practise D&M
don't think of ourselves as unbalanced or retarded at all.
I believe a SERIOUS apology is needed here. This is a truly offensive post
to me, at least.
Perrrfect
--
"It never rains under my umbrella."
Pete Townshend
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: BBS situation for comment
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:51:33 -0500
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <sschwartz-050...@p21.infinet.com>
References: <3gup6u$7...@sundog.tiac.net> <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p21.infinet.com
In article <3h0ra3$5...@tpe.ncm.com>, gri...@tpe.ncm.com (Bob Grimes) wrote:
>
> The Power Exchange also has a dungeon avialable for members, but
> consenuality is not a problem. A submissive must accept a collar
> <thus consensuality> before the Dom who offered the collar can use
> that command and all other D/s commands.
>
Just to add a brief .02 here, not only is consensuality the basis for the
Dungeon on TPE, but the quality of the members also aids here. Just once,
I was addressed by a new member as "slut." Before I could even TYPE a
response, four other people on the Board had called this person (gently)
to task. I was impressed.
Perrrfect
--
Go ahead, take the moral high ground. All that divine backlighting makes an
excellent target.
~~End~~
From: ssch...@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: What's in a gag?
Followup-To: alt.sex.bondage
Date: 3 Feb 1995 13:00:46 GMT
Organization: Cat's Lair
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <sschwartz-0...@p09.infinet.com>
References: <3gl7t9$6a...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p09.infinet.com
In article <3gl7t9$6a...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, PEG...@prodigy.com
(Steven Phillips) wrote:
> My wife wants to top her very truculant husband but need help in the
> gagging. Any good sugestions will be used. Our attempts seem to always
> fail.
There are a number of household items that make excellent gags. A small
piece of sponge wrapped in a bandana and then knotted. A "whiffle" golf
ball (practise ball) with a piece of cloth through it. A pair of panties,
or pantyhose.
What specific problems are you encountering?
Perrrfect
--
~~End~~
~~End~~
Need I say more other than Sara "The Fist" Salzman had all of her archives
quoted above NUKED- so the GOOGLE URLs no longer work BUT I had the foresight
to save them all as web pages knowing full well the pig would pull them.
Here is Sara missing her chance to deny she penned the "poem" at the top of this
posting:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=catamont-52E981.09191330042002%40news.concentric.net&rnum=2
From: Sara <cata...@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,
Subject: Re: The Bizarre behavior of Sara Salzman
Date: 30 Apr 2002 15:19:14 GMT
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <catamont-52E981...@news.concentric.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.155.170.163
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC)
In article <7b1tcu41mqb6vsncg...@4ax.com>, Voice of
Reason <voiceo...@blakely.DELETEharrogate.net> wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2002 03:01:36 GMT, Sara "The Fist" Salzman
> <cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
> Sara Salzman post sexual torture and bondage stories for little kids
> to read. An example of her writings: This is when she was Sara
> Schwartz before dumping that husband for the superman Aryan she brags
> out. What a piece of garbage.
>
> From: ssch...@infinet.com
> Newsgroups: alt.sex.bondage,
> Subject: My Master Holds The Ropes Just So (poem)
> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 14:49:12 -0500
Fantasy fiction.
~~End of GOOGLE Archival Excerpt~~
I saw no denial just "Fantasy fiction."
Tavish
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3crfru9ce2rb0snnls%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Children of the Devil and Anti-Christ[s] Positively Identified Using
Scripture-- Check The Proofs For Yourselves! V2.0
Message-ID: <vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3...@4ax.com>
Date: 13 May 2003 05:29:00 GMT
Sara Salzman
Jubilation T. Cornpone <EWvonT...@TAVISCHE-GMBH.NET> wrote:
Who became so famous with a reputation so great,
That he ran for president and didn't carry a state?
Igor Boris Tavishsky
<catamont-280F46...@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> Sara Salzman
<cata...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=s70dcvgs3eucqd31n81gqo5e21uj7vvg67%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Sara "The Fist" Salzman - A Compilation of Her Better Known Literary
Works and Opinions
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:35:49 -0500
Message-ID: <s70dcvgs3eucqd31n...@4ax.com>
Richard Phillips
Phillips
I wouldn't describe myself as your ally; non-enemy would be
closer to it. All I want to say is that you deeply degrade
yourself with exchanges of this sort. Salzman and Arthur
Tandy are both of them persons it is better to have nothing
whatever to do with.
==========================================================================
Hans Gerhardt Tavische
>Phillips
>
>I wouldn't describe myself as your ally; non-enemy would be
>closer to it. All I want to say is that you deeply degrade
>yourself with exchanges of this sort. Salzman and Arthur
>Tandy are both of them persons it is better to have nothing
>whatever to do with.
I just want the archives to reflect their cheap shots as compared to what I
actually posted. They are only making themselves look bad for all posterity when
they resort to childish insults instead of refuting what I post!
If what I post is all lies and is false then they would be very busy pointing
out the lies line by line in their replies to my posts rather than resorting to
the tactics they choose as a means of reply.
Once again-- what they do reflects on them and not me and by me replying to them
according to their foolishness they can't become wise in their own eyes and as
King David once pointed out:
Proverbs 26:5,12 :: New International Version (NIV)
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.
12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than
for him.
Proverbs 26:5,12 :: King James Version (KJV)
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than
of him.
Need I say more?
Tavish
L Alpert
"Hans Gerhardt Tavische" <H_G_Ta...@TAVISHCHE-GMBH.NET> wrote in message
news:eorhfv8ls1litd8e6...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:38:47 -0700, <3EF71F07...@mbay.net> Richard
> Phillips <rgp...@mbay.net> wrote:
>
> >Phillips
> >
> >I wouldn't describe myself as your ally; non-enemy would be
> >closer to it. All I want to say is that you deeply degrade
> >yourself with exchanges of this sort. Salzman and Arthur
> >Tandy are both of them persons it is better to have nothing
> >whatever to do with.
>
> I just want the archives to reflect their cheap shots as compared to what
I
> actually posted. They are only making themselves look bad for all
posterity when
> they resort to childish insults instead of refuting what I post!
A little excess self worth? You believe it is peoples lot in life to spend
time analyzing data to refute your points of view? I have not read much of
what you have posted, but what little I have seen seems to be pointless,
unless, of course, I am missing some of the context of this personal battle
between yourself and someone name Sara.
>
> If what I post is all lies and is false then they would be very busy
pointing
> out the lies line by line in their replies to my posts rather than
resorting to
> the tactics they choose as a means of reply.
The refutation of points of view will be subjective as well. One won't
believe the others data because of an opinion of questionable source or some
other nonsense. It could go on forever. Some people do have better things
to do than running around thumping their chest about their latest usenet
"victory".
>
> Once again-- what they do reflects on them and not me and by me replying
to them
> according to their foolishness they can't become wise in their own eyes
and as
> King David once pointed out:
Since many do not know them, it may reflect on their "usenet" personna, so
to speak, but not much of a chance of it in a personal sense.
>
> Proverbs 26:5,12 :: New International Version (NIV)
> 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own
eyes.
> 12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool
than
> for him.
>
> Proverbs 26:5,12 :: King James Version (KJV)
> 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own
conceit.
> 12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool
than
> of him.
>
> Need I say more?
Maybe less.
>
> Tavish
>
>
>
>
sailor57
> ================================================
> Phillips
>
> I wouldn't describe myself as your ally; non-enemy would be
> closer to it. All I want to say is that you deeply degrade
> yourself with exchanges of this sort. Salzman and
Arthur
> Tandy are both of them persons it is better to have nothing
> whatever to do with.
Why don't you practice what you preach, Dickie? Stop answering my
posts with your lying idiotic bullshit.I won't miss you at all.
>
>