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UPDATED: If Communism Was/Is so Oppressive to Jews then Why Don't Jews Treat it the Same as They Do Nazism? V3,0 R_0712

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Ward Cleaver

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Jul 12, 2003, 10:23:13 AM7/12/03

I would appreciate honest answers to these very simple questions:
1) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews in the manner Nazism was then why
don't we see Jews condemning communism as they do Nazism instead of praising it
and defending the ideology and those who espouse it?
2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and their
Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
"anti-Nazis"?
3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews who
spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread communism!)
4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews and
their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung from
lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
"oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis being
executed!)
See:
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=foqgfvouhqqcgkt1v...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Add Another Communist Sympathizer to the List - Yale "Mad Dog - Guilty
of Assault" Edeiken (Classic Repost With "Renewed" GOOGLE Links)
Message-ID: <foqgfvouhqqcgkt1v...@4ax.com>
Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:09:09 GMT (NOTE: Old embedded DejaCom links in the above
archive most likely won't work seeing how GOOGLE took over DejaCom and changed
link pointers.)

Essential proofs:

http://www.bnaibrith.ca/institute/millennium/millennium02.html
^^^^^^^^^
HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVES
2. The Canadian Jewish Experience: A Distinct Personality Emerges
Gerald Tulchinsky

[...]

To be sure, there are many significant - almost overpowering - resemblances
between the American and Canadian Jewish historical experiences, and, in certain
respects, the communities are so similar as to be almost indistinguishable.
Without doubt, the more numerous and more highly developed American Jewish
communities exercised strong and continuing influences on Canadian Jewry. After
all, in both cases most of their people came from eastern Europe in sudden and
vast immigration waves before 1914. And, of course, the cultural baggage they
brought with them was identical in both countries: deeply pious, rigid Orthodoxy
in many and a complex mix of philosophies such as Marxism, socialism, anarchism,
Zionism, bundism, and other ideals among many of the young who had been exposed
to the intellectual transformations outside their own narrow world...

<END>

The above is from Jews themselves and I pity people who are stupid enough to
continually remain in denial about how communism, Marxism, and socialism is
spread. Telling the truth is NOT anti-semitic-- rather it's ANTI-COMMUNISM!!

BTW BUNDISM (BUND) is just another form of Communism!

http://www.jewishgen.org/Courland/consular/communist.htm
Jewish Communist Organization in Latvia

The program of the Latvian Bund is identical with the program of the Lettish
Communist Party.

The Bund is part of the Lettish Communist Party, as the communist organization
of the Jewish proletariat, and its purpose is concertedness of operations in
line with the entire proletariat organized in the Lettish Communist Party, on
the basis of separate groups, fractions, etc., under the guidance of party
organs, central, as well as local...

The organizations of the Bund operate with the knowledge of the responsible
general party organs, and under the control of the Central Committee of the
Lettish Communist Party. The autonomous organization of the Jewish proletariat
forming part of the Lettish Communist Party has adopted, with the consent of the
Party, the name of Jewish Section of the Lettish Communist Party (Comverband)...

<END>

http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/timeline/haskala.cfm
(Link active January 20, 2003)
"A lot of Haskala Jews are ready to give up on Russia. Many channel their
energy into creating a home land of their own. Some Haskala Jews turn to
political revolution. The Russian Revolution of the early 20th century will
overthrow the Czarist government and it will be led by a disproportionate
number of Jews. "

The same text is mirrored at this Jewish web site as well:
http://www.yahrzeit.org/text_link/temple_text4/textpage119.htm

http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/timeline/desteeur.cfm
"A disproportionate number within the revolutionary movements are Jewish...
Russian Revolutionary movement and it finally succeeds in overthrowing the Czar.
However, it subsequently brings the country into a bitter civil war. The
Communists emerge victorious. Within their ranks are a disproportionate number
of Jews..."

http://www.adl.org/presrele/ASInt_13/2966_13.asp
(Link active January 21, 2003)
Press Release Anti-Semitism-International
"...The collapse of communism has brought rapid, often radical change
throughout Central and Eastern Europe and poses a growing threat to the
security of the reemerging Jewish communities in the region," said
Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director." <END>

What is Abe Foxman suggesting? Is he suggesting communism was a guardian
of Jews?

Another "confession" from ADL indicating Communism protected Jews:

http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/russia_politics.asp
(Link active January 21, 2003)
"Anti-Semitism in Political Life

In recent years anti-Semitism has become an obvious weapon in the political life
of Russia.

The fact is that anti-Semitism remains an underlying theme in many major
political and public debates in Russia.

Anti-Semitism is so ingrained in public discourse that many Russians are not
even able to recognize anti-Jewish bias

One example is the standoff between President Putin and the oligarchs. While the
public largely welcomes Putin?s battle against the business moguls, some sectors
of the population make no clear distinction between the class of rich and
influential tycoons and the Jewish people in general. Broad public approval of
the government's actions against the oligarchs, who many see as exploiting the
Russian people, coincides with an undercurrent of resentment against Jews in
powerful positions that has become widespread in Russia since the collapse of
Communism in 1991..."

The bottom line is: "..resentment against Jews in powerful positions that has
become widespread in Russia since the collapse of Communism in 1991.."

Here is B'nai Brith making a shocking revelation:

www.bnaibrith.org/randa/unesco3.html
(Link was active December 2001. Now expired)
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/lillithsrealm/myhomepage/Humanity/HumanRights/Genocide/CounteringAntisemitism.htm
(Link active 12-11-2002 and the "unesco.html" web page was cached at this
site.)

Excerpt: "MEASURES AND INITIATIVES TAKEN TO COMBAT ANTISEMITISM, 1991 - '94
Introduction. Antisemitism - World Trends, 1991 - '94
The period of 1991-'94 was marked by a rise in expressions of antisemitism,
resulting mainly from the collapse of the communist block in Europe and the
reunification of Germany."

The original link above came from a GOOGLE search as detailed in this link:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=tbdc1u0ikubfkl0qp77dn140tqhoim43h6%404ax.com&rnum=1
Message-ID: <tbdc1u0ikubfkl0qp...@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=3u3kevget4eif2tsgh5213e8chvlonqcum%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Who says Socialism and Communism aren't the same and are adhered to by
the same people? CP USA Speaks out! R_0613
Message-ID: <3u3kevget4eif2tsg...@4ax.com>
Date: 13 Jun 2003 17:50:08 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=llcngv42c93cflmndrcg9dbt8m7u7nus18%404ax.com&rnum=4
Subject: Socialism Imported Into America, Canada, Rumania, Hungary, Poland,
Germany, Ukraine, Palestine (Israel) Etc. by Jews (In Their Own Words People!)
V1.0 First Edition
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:15:39 -0500
Message-ID: <llcngv42c93cflmnd...@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=8hqsdv4c67ida5vp7bfdl9f9rt8cj405hd%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Tax Exempt Religious Org (B'nai Brith) Gave Communist Financial and
Moral Support
Message-ID: <8hqsdv4c67ida5vp7...@4ax.com>
Date: 4 Jun 2003 21:52:32 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=59qpbvcgjph35krknh525b1d4ivst7h38c%404ax.com&rnum=2
Subject: NIZKOR Director Ken McVay in Bed With Communists and His Animosity
Against Anti-Communists Documented ... (Why Does NIZKOR/B'NAI BRITH Have Such
Affection for Communists and Why Would Anyone Who Values Freedom Give Them
Donations?)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:58:59 -0500
Message-ID: <59qpbvcgjph35krkn...@4ax.com>

(Very brief excerpt)

The League of Human Rights of B'nai Brith (Ken McVay's Nizkor sponsor) got a
court ruling which declares this about anti-communism:

http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/decisions/docs/league-e.htm
T.D. 15/92 Decision rendered December 16, 1992
CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACT
R.S.C., 1985, c. H-6 (as amended)
HUMAN RIGHTS TRIBUNAL
[...]

B. THE COMPLAINTS
These complaints are brought by ... The League for Human Rights B'Nai Brith
Canada ...
(1) Themes Which Promote Hatred: ...
(g) Anti-Communist Ideology ...

<END>

Chabad-Lubavitch in Cyberspace
http://www.chabad.org/index.html
Using the search link: http://www.mnemotrix.com/chabad/ which is Chabad
Lubavitch in Cyberspace and key words KARL MARX COMMUNIST MANIFESTO we get:

Baal Shem Tov
http://www.mnemotrix.com/texis/webinator/search3/+cwwBmewPQdeYGq0qenAbtqyQE2PaTE2kagZTTuNfIRaTENf-0IRZtFqnpwGwrFqmMwLozmxwwwMFqomxqrwxwmDFqmwcc/context.html#hit1
(Archived locally as: Fqmwcc_context)
Happy Birthday, Baal Shem Tov! by Tzvi Freeman, author of "Bringing Heaven Down
to Earth - 365 Meditations of the Rebbe"

Excerpt: " By the way, that year -- 1848 -- also occupies a central place in the
secular calendar. It was called the "year of revolutions" in Europe, the most
significant year in the fall of the old order. And another major work by a very
different Jewish author was published: The Communist Manifesto or Karl Marx."
<END>

Using the search link: http://www.mnemotrix.com/chabad/ which is Chabad
Lubavitch in Cyberspace and key words COMMUNISM CHRISTIANITY we get:

(The following was the fourth return using the above search criteria on
June 22, 2003 and is archived locally as: part_04 and as a JPG image
named: part_04.jpg)

part.04
And yet, they failed! Of the hundreds of millions `devotees' to all these faiths
and causes, only a tiny fraction are truly faithful to them. The overwhelming
majority are self-deluding hypocrites: they take from... (5K)

Excerpt: " Skeptic: Tell me this: if what you say is true, if, underneath it
all, the selfish animal we call ``man'' possesses a soul that is essentially and
inherently good, why have all attempts to uncover it failed so dismally?
Christianity, Islam, Communism, Humanism---so many religions and ideologies all
appeal to just such a ``higher ego.'' And yet, here we are, in 1993, back at
square one with our good old, tried and true, egoistic ego... Believer:
Secondly, they did succeed---to the extent that they do concur with the essence
of man and of creation.

Communism, despite its flaws and corruptions, has had a profound effect on our
sense of social justice. Christianity, despite the horrendous atrocities it
perpetrated and justified, played a major role in introducing, to a largely
pagan world, the concepts (though much adulterated) of a one, omnipotent and
non- corporeal G-d and of a messianic end-goal to existence." <END>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW as for the LIE: "Christianity, despite the horrendous atrocities it
perpetrated and justified.."-- it was Jews who engaged in "horrendous
atrocities" which began against Christians by Jews in the 1st Century as
detailed in these archives:

How First Century Christianity Was Treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=711ucv8tmute29h3gdcgds6ajmd7eekovr%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Most Heinous Murder Plot Ever Devised (For Your Archives &
Research) V2 R_0524
Message-ID: <711ucv8tmute29h3g...@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:10 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Babylon the Great - Religious Persecution, Torture, Harassment R_0524
Message-ID: <k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av...@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:17 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Apostle Paul on Judaized Jews R_0524
Message-ID: <i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2...@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:25 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3crfru9ce2rb0snnls%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Children of the Devil and Anti-Christ[s] Positively Identified Using
Scripture-- Check The Proofs For Yourselves! V2.0
Message-ID: <vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3...@4ax.com>
Date: 13 May 2003 05:29:00 GMT

The first "Holocaust" was not Gentiles (Nazis) Against Jews BUT was Jews
(Communists) Against Christian Kulaks!!!

How Later Christianity was treated by Jews:
Jewish Led Bolsheviks Scalped & Crucified Christians by Philippa Fletcher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=34c17d0f.1410012285%40news.smart1.net&rnum=7
Subject: Bolsheviks Scalped and Crucified Christians -
Date: 1998/01/18
Message-ID: <34c17d0f....@news.smart1.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=cqrhav0th39prr3bf5am4dnkcn89j52p8b%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) R_0425
Date: 25 Apr 2003 08:14:41 GMT
Message-ID: <cqrhav0th39prr3bf...@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ek19cv4ei9cf2nrvull7df5rgn2rhai54c%404ax.com&rnum=2
Subject: Soviets (Communists) Were Jews as Proven by BOOLEAN Operands (Classic
Repost from 3-31-2000) Abridged Version R_0516
Message-ID: <ek19cv4ei9cf2nrvu...@4ax.com>
Date: 16 May 2003 06:36:09 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=uscefvgfqpvt2cs8l...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Forefathers of the Soviet State (Short Compilation) R_0623
Message-ID: <uscefvgfqpvt2cs8l...@4ax.com>
Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:58:25 GMT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=cq1kevkt87kf9tnkvl79bsifgfki844cmg%404ax.com&rnum=2
Subject: Communism Preferred to Christianity By Mainline Jewish Organization (In
Their Own Words)
Message-ID: <cq1kevkt87kf9tnkv...@4ax.com>
Date: 13 Jun 2003 17:17:16 GMT

Also of interest:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Communist Holocaust Has Killed Over 100 Million People
Message-ID: <ncu5gvoc1nga0k933...@4ax.com>
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:33:38 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=3hv5gvookmlibha49ph75epk0dsk0do02l%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Communist Holocaust Killed Tens of Millions of People! (Vintage Post
With Re-Vitalized Links) R_0702
Message-ID: <3hv5gvookmlibha49...@4ax.com>
Date: 2 Jul 2003 16:36:00 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=b43pfv0nt84g1ee656lve4mmo09daqod0f%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Solzhenitsyn Book Infuriates Russian Jews R_0627
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:37:17 -0500
Message-ID: <b43pfv0nt84g1ee65...@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=h45hgvk1a03um506q714i2uph4gjup8kfn%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Socialism Imported Into America and Canada (and Germany too?) by Jews
(In Their Own Words People!) V2.0 R_0702
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:34:48 -0500
Message-ID: <h45hgvk1a03um506q...@4ax.com>

New additions July 11-12, 2003:

Here is a July 11, 2003 GOOGLE search and the key words used (Jewish prominent
socialist communist) using this links to start with:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Jewish+prominent+socialist+communist+&num=20&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
Searched the web for Jewish prominent socialist communist . Results 1 - 20 of
about 12,100

Some sample returns:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/1795/sw179512.htm
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived locally as: sw179512)
Socialist Worker page
... not least those who called themselves "socialist", like Israel's ... not
least the rich texture of Jewish life in ... of discussions to debate the
prominent role Jews played in the Communist movement throughout the Arab world

http://www.nyam.org/publications/online/malloch/malloch15.shtml
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived locally as: malloch15)
NYAM - Malloch Newsletter No. 15
... of pediatrics in America, the most prominent American physician of Jewish
birth and ... the communist, Jacobi the revolutionary socialist, and Jacobi ...
EARLY SOCIAL MEDICINE IN NEW YORK CITY: ABRAHAM JACOBI AND THE GERMAN COMMUNITY
But there is another Abraham Jacobi who is not well known - Jacobi the
communist, Jacobi the revolutionary socialist, and Jacobi the socialist labor
activist.. Born in Prussia as the secularised Jewish son of artisan parents, the
eighteen year old Abraham Jacobi was radicalised by the economic depression and
political uprisings of the late 1840s. Active on the extreme left in the German
revolutions of 1848, J acobi joined Karl Marx's Communist League as an eighteen
year-old medical student in 1849-50....

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Jewish+prominence+socialist+communist+&num=20&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
Searched the web for Jewish prominence socialist communist . Results 1 - 20 of
about 2,380 (I changed the key word prominent to prominence in this search)

Sample returns:

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/commun.htm
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived localy as: jt_commun)
Untitled Document
... wealthy capitalist, even funded socialist indoctrination programs ...
collapsed to the communist revolution, a ... Jewish Prominence and Power in
Soviet Communism With ..
JEWISH PRE-EMINENCE IN THE POLITICAL LEFT/COMMUNISM
(including Jewish prominence in "radical" movements worldwide, Jewish
pre-eminence in secret police terrorist agencies in the Soviet Union and Poland,
Jewish communist spy networks, Jewish dominance in the Left of America, and the
inevitable Jewish movement towards ethnocentric pro-Israelism and Zionism)
How profoundly this paradoxical "particularism" (i.e., chauvinism) is
ingrained in the Jewish consciousness is evidenced even in leftist political
organizations that are supposed to be founded upon notions of universality,
egalitarianism, and pan-human solidarity. In the years leading up to the Russian
communist revolution in the early twentieth century, the undying obsession by
most Russian Jews for themselves -- distinct from many Russian leftists around
them -- often manifest itself in ethnocentric political expressions. Many Jews
of Russia and Poland congregated towards their own socialist movement called the
Bund.

http://www.iyp.org/polish/history/antypolonizmy/jedwabne_en_97.html
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived locally as: jedwabne_en_97)
To order J. Schatz, The Generation: The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Communists
of Poland from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/
The Generation: The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Communists of Poland
by J. Schatz (Review)
An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century
Intellectual and Political Movements, Westport, Connecticut & London, 1998. Page
numbers are in MacDonald's book. Comments by Peter Myers {thus}, May 7, 2001.
{Poland's post war Communist government was Jewish-dominated; the 1967 Middle
East War forced Poland's Jews to finally choose between Zionism and Communism.
Removal of Jews from the leadership allowed Poles to take over, who would later
be more amenable to Solidarity...
Most of these individuals spoke Yiddish in their daily lives and had
only a poor command of Polish even after joining the party (p. 54). They
socialized entirely with other Jews whom they met in the Jewish world of work,
neighborhood, and Jewish social and political organizations. After they became
communists, they dated and married among themselves and their social gatherings
were conducted in Yiddish (p. 116). As is the case for all of the Jewish
intellectual and political movements discussed in this volume, their mentors and
principle influences were other ethnic Jews, including especially Luxemburg and
Trotsky (pp. 62, 89)...
(p. 62) "... was common for individuals to combine a strong Jewish
identity with Marxism as well as various combinations of Zionism and Bundism.
Moreover, the attraction of Polish Jews to communism was greatly facilitated by
their knowledge that Jews had attained high-level positions of power and
influence in the Soviet Union and that the Soviet government had established a
system of Jewish education and culture"...
(p. 60). "In both the Soviet Union and Poland, communism was seen as
opposing anti-Semitism. In marked contrast, during the 1930s the Polish
government developed policies in which Jews were excluded from public-sector
employment, quotas were placed on Jewish representation in universities and the
professions, and government-organized boycotts of Jewish businesses and artisans
were staged" (Hagen 1996). Clearly, Jews perceived communism as good for Jews:
It was a movement that did not threaten Jewish group continuity, and it held the
promise of power and influence for Jews and the end of state-sponsored
anti-Semitism.
(p. 63) " Jewish culture and, at the same time, a view of this as a mere
ethnic form of the communist message, instrumental in incorporating Jews into
the Polish Socialist community; and maintaining separate Jewish institutions
while at the same time desiring to eliminate Jewish separateness as such" (p.
234). It will be apparent in the following that the Jews, including Jewish
communists at the highest levels of the government, continued as a cohesive,
identifiable group.... <END but there was much more!!!>

Not only did Jews embrace socialism/communism as prove above many time; they
founded their modern State of Israel on the same ideology with the support of
communist Siviet Union!

I.E.

Everyone read the following very closely and notice that a national entity
Palestine is mentioned and how Jews established a "state within a state" among
Palestinian Arabs and then see how "Israel" came about and all from a Jewish
source: Yeshiva University Commentator (BTW I thought there wasn't such a
national entity as Palestine so why is the following mentions it!?! The article
is from Yeshiva too!)

http://www.yucommentator.com/v64i5/features/ttbengurion.shtml
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived locally as: ttbengurion)
Zionism fascinated the young David Gruen, and he became convinced that
the first step for the Jews who wanted to revive Israel as a nation was to
immigrate to Palestine and settle there as farmers. In 1906 the twenty-year old
Gruen arrived in Palestine and for several years worked as a farmer in Galilee.
There he adopted the Hebrew name Ben-Gurion. Suffering the hardship of the early
pioneers, including malaria and hunger, Ben-Gurion never lost sight of his goal.
Following the British governments publication in 1917 of the Balfour
Declaration, which promised the Jews a "national homeland" in Palestine,
Ben-Gurion enlisted in the British army's Jewish Legion to join the war for the
liberation of Palestine from Ottoman rule. Ben-Gurion immediately called for
accelerated Jewish immigration to Palestine in an effort to create a Jewish
nucleus that would serve as the foundation of a Jewish state. That nucleus was
the Histadrut - the confederation of Jewish workers in Palestine founded in 1920
by Ben-Gurion. The Histadrut rapidly became a central force in social, economic
and security affairs, attaining the position of a "state within a state." Ten
years later, in 1920, a number of labour factions united to found the Mapai, the
Israeli Workers Party, with Ben-Gurion at its head. In 1935, Ben-Gurion was
elected chairman of the Zionist Executive, the highest directing body of world
Zionism...
As the Jewish settlement strengthened and deepened its roots in
Palestine, anxiety mounted among the Palestinian Arabs, resulting in violent
clashes between the two communities. Ben-Gurion reacted by calling upon the
Jewish community to rise against England, thus heralding the decade of "fighting
Zionism." On May 12, 1942, he assembled an emergency conference of American
Zionists in New York City; the convention decided upon the establishment of a
Jewish commonwealth in Palestine after the war. At the end of WWII, Ben-Gurion
again led the Jewish community in its successful struggle against the British
mandate; in May 1948, in accordance with a decision of the United Nations
General Assembly, with the support of the United States and the Soviet Union,
the State of Israel was established.... <END>

Just what type of government did Ben-Gurion and his fellow Jews foist on the
Arabs living peaceably in Palestine? Answer: SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM!

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00fk0
(Link active July 12, 2003. Archived locally as: MFAH00fk0)
DAVID BEN-GURION
(1886 - 1973)
....In 1912 he began to study law in Istanbul, but the outbreak of World War
I led to his deportation, together with other leading Zionists, by the Ottoman
authorities. Ben-Gurion spent the war years in the United States, where he
married Paula Monbesz, a fellow Zionist, and was active in building an "American
wing" of Labor Zionism. He returned to Palestine as a soldier of the Jewish
Legion, a unit of the British Army created by Ze'ev Jabotinsky.
In the 1920s, Ben-Gurion was elected secretary-general of the Histadrut
- General Federation of Labor, a role which he regarded as a potential power
base for the realization of Zionist aims. He served as Secretary-General of the
Histadrut until 1935, forging it into much more than a trade union: an
all-embracing political, social and economic institution with its own network of
factories, development corporations, cultural frameworks and health services and
a financial institution. The Histadrut thus provided the economic
infrastructure, as well as the social and political fabric, for the
state-in-the-making. Ben-Gurion subsequently played a central role in the
amalgamation of Ahdut Ha'avoda and Hapo'el Hatza'ir into Mapai, which became the
ruling party during the first decades of statehood, with Ben-Gurion at the helm.
His approach to socialism was pragmatic, seeking to attain national and
socialist goals simultaneously. By 1935, Labor Zionism had become the most
important faction in the Zionist movement, and Ben-Gurion was appointed to the
key post of chairman of the Jewish Agency Executive - the "almost-government" of
the Jews in Palestine - a post he held until 1948, when the State of Israel was
established. <END>

Key points:
1) The land was Palestine until it was made into Israel in 1948!
2) The government was socialist!
3) The above is the offical Israel Gov't web site! Go look!
(I thought there was never such a national entity as Palestine YET it has been
mentioned twice so far from mainline KJewish sources!!!!)

This material is a real clincher:

http://www.jewishmag.com/43mag/bengurion/bengurion.htm
(Link active July 12, 2003. Archived locally as: bengurion)
History of David Ben-Gurion
... "We are following a new path," Ben Gurion explained in 1921, "which
contradicts developments in the whole world except Russia." This led him to pay
homage to the Soviet Union for "her great spiritual influence on our movement
and our work in Palestine." In these years Ben Gurion came to "idolize Lenin"
and "he even adopted the dress of the Soviet leaders - a quasi military uniform
of rough wool." Ben Gurion's affinity towards communism and socialism from his
early years accompanied him in developing institutions later in Israel....
After the Balfour Declaration, Ben Gurion called for the formation of a
Jewish army to liberate Palestine. He volunteered for the British Army and
reached Egypt. In Egypt he met many like minded volunteers and all agreed on the
necessity for a united movement to prepare for the day of Jewish rule in Israel.
The evolving socialist nature of Zionism in Palestine was ultimately
accepted and actively supported by most of the leaders of the World Zionist
Organization (WZO)... <END>

The above speaks volumes does it not!? Jews not only spread socialism/communism
to other nations they also brought it to Palestine as well! Also take special
notice what has been brought out in all of the material above and some points
are:

1) "At the end of WWII, Ben-Gurion again led the Jewish community in its
successful struggle against the British mandate; in May 1948, in accordance with
a decision of the United Nations General Assembly, with the support of the
United States and the Soviet Union, the State of Israel was established.

<<I thought communism was supposed to be an oppresors of Jews YET it was
Stalinists Communist Soviet Union which supported the foundation of the State of
Israel!>>

2) "We are following a new path," Ben Gurion explained in 1921, "which
contradicts developments in the whole world except Russia." This led him to pay
homage to the Soviet Union for "her great spiritual influence on our movement
and our work in Palestine." In these years Ben Gurion came to "idolize Lenin"
and "he even adopted the dress of the Soviet leaders - a quasi military uniform
of rough wool." Ben Gurion's affinity towards communism and socialism from his
early years accompanied him in developing institutions later in Israel."

<<Doesn't need any comment other than Jews take to socialism/communism like
ducks to water.>>

http://www.futurecasts.com/Muravchik,%20History%20of%20socialism.htm
(Link active July 11, 2003. Archived locally as: Muravchik)
In "Heaven On Earth, The Rise and Fall of Socialism," Joshua Muravchik
attacks his formidable subject logically by presenting a series of short
biographies of some of the most influential leaders of socialist, communist and
labor movements...
That people of Jewish decent played so prominent a role in socialist and
communist theories and movement - in numbers way beyond any relation to the
proportion of Jews in the population - is an obvious and frequently noted
fact. <END>

Also see:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=6sagevs7n51rfd3q2v9o2qovk6sqhopdee%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Jews are NOT Entitled to Israel in Present Days-- So Proves the
Scripture!! Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:28:17 -0500
Message-ID: <6sagevs7n51rfd3q2...@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=qf7acvoa8hfn3bi2fttrvo00fhaoi2f8ip%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Old Covenant Vs New -- New Covenant Replaces Old Covenant (Jews NO
Longer God's Chosen People & Entitled to "Israel" So Says the Scripture!)
Message-ID: <qf7acvoa8hfn3bi2f...@4ax.com>

The questions at the top of this post are honest questions which Jews will
avoid!

More to come!!
Tavish

---
>I ask-- why do we never see Jews criticize the communism
>which existed before Stalin took control?

"Because there was very little to criticize."
Susan Cohen - January 24, 2001
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&rnum=4&selm=3A6F230F.3AFF4272%40his.com
Message-ID: <3A6F230F...@his.com>

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

unread,

Jul 13, 2003, 10:01:52 PM7/13/03

Sigh, you have already been answered...

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:23:13 -0500, Ward Cleaver
<ward_cleaver@mayfield01net> wrote:

I, a Jew, condemn communism as a failed system, unable to truly work,
due to human nature

>2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and their
>Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
>"anti-Nazis"?

In your dreams

>3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews who
>spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread communism!)

Hogwash

>4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews and
>their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung from
>lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
>"oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis being
>executed!)

Man that's Christian of you.

<SNIP>

Dario Western

unread,

Jul 14, 2003, 5:15:38 AM7/14/03

The communist manifesto was a beautiful one which was close to 'the Lord
loves a cheerful giver'. It is about sharing, loving, tolerance. What went
wrong was that we had despots like Stalin and Trotsky who ENFORCED these
activities to be done above all things!

> 2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and
their
> Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
> "anti-Nazis"?

Communism was not so much opposed by Jews, but by Christians. How many
Christians called the communist manifesto the philosophy of "Satan", yet one
of the most prominent Christian churches gave their support to Hitler to
slaughter thousands of Jews?

> 3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews
who
> spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread
communism!)

See above. The philosophy is not oppressive. The political movement was.

> 4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews
and
> their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung
from
> lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
> "oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis
being
> executed!)

It's all a matter of the religious faith. If your family happened to be
tortured and killed by Nazis, wouldn't you feel validated if you knew their
oppressors had been executed? Maybe if you put yourself in their place you
might get a better idea.

--
Regards,

Dario Western

dario_...@nospambigpond.com

"Ward Cleaver" <ward_cleaver@mayfield01net> wrote in message
news:0960hv0mc0irge93d...@4ax.com...

> I would appreciate honest answers to these very simple questions:
> 1) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews in the manner Nazism was then
why
> don't we see Jews condemning communism as they do Nazism instead of
praising it
> and defending the ideology and those who espouse it?
> 2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and
their
> Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
> "anti-Nazis"?
> 3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews
who
> spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread
communism!)
> 4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews
and
> their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung
from
> lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
> "oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis
being
> executed!)
> See:
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=foqgfvou

hqqcgkt1visdp...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en

qpvt2cs8l4b2h...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en

Larry Mondello

unread,

Jul 14, 2003, 7:10:09 PM7/14/03

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:01:52 GMT, <3f120e19....@news.ev1.net>
christi...@ev1.net (Glenn (Christian Mystic)) wrote:

>
>Sigh, you have already been answered...

A pathetic answer at that too!

>
>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:23:13 -0500, Ward Cleaver
><ward_cleaver@mayfield01net> wrote:
>
>> I would appreciate honest answers to these very simple questions:
>>1) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews in the manner Nazism was then why
>>don't we see Jews condemning communism as they do Nazism instead of praising it
>>and defending the ideology and those who espouse it?

>I, a Jew, condemn communism as a failed system, unable to truly work,
>due to human nature

You condemn it for the wrong reasons! There are other failed sytems too and they
weren't murderous of millions of Christians!

I.E.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=cqrhav0th39prr3bf5am4dnkcn89j52p8b%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) R_0425
Date: 25 Apr 2003 08:14:41 GMT
Message-ID: <cqrhav0th39prr3bf...@4ax.com>

>>2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and their

>>Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
>>"anti-Nazis"?

:.
>In your dreams

In YOUR dreams!

>>3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews who
>>spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread communism!)

:.
>Hogwash

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1g60hvoj0b21pn339...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Palestine was Changed to a Socialist Jewish State in 1948 by Ben-Gurion
with Communist Soviet Union's Support
Message-ID: <1g60hvoj0b21pn339...@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Jul 2003 14:16:47 GMT

>>4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews and
>>their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung from
>>lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
>>"oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis being
>>executed!)

>Man that's Christian of you.

Just stating the irony!
Tavish

><SNIP>

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

Larry Mondello

unread,

Jul 14, 2003, 7:33:19 PM7/14/03

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:15:38 GMT,
<_wuQa.3729$wU5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au> "Dario Western"
<Dario_...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote:

>> I would appreciate honest answers to these very simple questions:
>> 1) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews in the manner Nazism was then
>> why don't we see Jews condemning communism as they do Nazism instead of
>> praising it and defending the ideology and those who espouse it?

>The communist manifesto was a beautiful one which was close to 'the Lord
>loves a cheerful giver'. It is about sharing, loving, tolerance. What went
>wrong was that we had despots like Stalin and Trotsky who ENFORCED these
>activities to be done above all things!

Jesus encouraged being a cheerful giver on a person's own will and volition.
Socialism/communism is the redistribution of wealth and property at the point of
a gun in some cases or imprisonment in most cases. Hardly a comparison.

>> 2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and
>> their Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
>> "anti-Nazis"?

>Communism was not so much opposed by Jews, but by Christians.

See what you just stated!? Re-think your statement.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=0960hv0mc0irge93dfrb245g2dnnp66d9u%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED: If Communism Was/Is so Oppressive to Jews then Why Don't Jews
Treat it the Same as They Do Nazism? V3,0 R_0712
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:23:13 -0500
Message-ID: <0960hv0mc0irge93d...@4ax.com>

>How many Christians called the communist manifesto the philosophy of "Satan",
>yet one of the most prominent Christian churches gave their support to Hitler to
>slaughter thousands of Jews?

You must be referring to the Concordat made by Pope Pius XII as the last resort
to defend Europe from a complete overtake by Red Bolshevist Communists.

http://www.google.com/advanced_search
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Concordat+Pius+Hitler+Europe+&num=20&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Communism&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
Searched the web for Concordat Pius Hitler Europe "Communism". Results 1 - 20
of about 478

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Concordat+Pius+Hitler+Europe+&num=20&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Bolshevism&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
Searched the web for Concordat Pius Hitler Europe "Bolshevism". Results 1 - 20
of about 184

Jews were very active then as they are now in spreading socialism/communism
worldwide and my proofs are from Jewish web sites primarily in this archive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=llcngv42c93cflmndrcg9dbt8m7u7nus18%404ax.com&rnum=4

Subject: Socialism Imported Into America, Canada, Rumania, Hungary, Poland,
Germany, Ukraine, Palestine (Israel) Etc. by Jews (In Their Own Words People!)
V1.0 First Edition Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:15:39 -0500
Message-ID: <llcngv42c93cflmnd...@4ax.com>

>> 3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews

>> who spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread
>> communism!)

>See above. The philosophy is not oppressive. The political movement was.

I haven't seen any government who followed that philosophy as NOT being
oppressive! Care to cite an example or two?

>> 4) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why were so many Jews
>> and their Gentile toadies outraged at the mere thought communists were hung
>> from lamp posts? (You would think they would rejoice with glee that their
>> "oppressors" were hung. The Jews certainly did not complain about Nazis
>> being executed!)

>It's all a matter of the religious faith. If your family happened to be
>tortured and killed by Nazis, wouldn't you feel validated if you knew their
>oppressors had been executed? Maybe if you put yourself in their place you
>might get a better idea.

The same can be said about why people in general and in many nations turned
their backs on Jews seeing how Jews were the primary leaders of the Bolshevists
who had just a short time earlier had slaughtered millions of Christians, burned
or desecrated many churches and established the first concentration camps of the
twentieth century which were called gulags.

Care to ponder why nation after nation turned their backs on boatloads of Jews
seeking asylum from Hitler?

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=0ktlevg2sqjf152os...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Arthur J. Tandy Remaining in Denial About Boatloads of Jews Being
Turned Away? aka Doesn't Want People to Know Where He Lives BUT HE Tips Off
People to Where I live!! R_0614
Message-ID: <0ktlevg2sqjf152os...@4ax.com>
References: <abf0ff5d.03042...@posting.google.com>
<2l3fav0hgevlfn8l3...@4ax.com>
<v5fbcv8g252prup46...@4ax.com>
<abf0ff5d.03051...@posting.google.com>
Date: 14 Jun 2003 10:13:11 GMT

The world was much more informed back then and they knew who were the movers and
shakers behind communism/socialism/zionism. The fact that Stalinist Soviet Union
backed Israel being established as a socialist/communist state isn't even widely
known but this archive quotes many Israeli and Jewish web site documents which
prove Israel to be a _Little Soviet Socialist Republic_ (my words):

>--
>Regards,
>
>Dario Western
Tavish

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=uscefvgfqpvt2cs8l...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en

Subject: Forefathers of the Soviet State (Short Compilation) R_0623
Message-ID: <uscefvgfqpvt2cs8l...@4ax.com>
Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:58:25 GMT

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

unread,

Jul 16, 2003, 2:59:00 PM7/16/03

On 14 Jul 2003 23:10:09 GMT, Larry Mondello

<larry_mondello@mayfield01net> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:01:52 GMT, <3f120e19....@news.ev1.net>
>christi...@ev1.net (Glenn (Christian Mystic)) wrote:

>>Sigh, you have already been answered...
>
>A pathetic answer at that too!

A am so flattered

>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:23:13 -0500, Ward Cleaver
>><ward_cleaver@mayfield01net> wrote:
>>
>>> I would appreciate honest answers to these very simple questions:
>>>1) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews in the manner Nazism was then why
>>>don't we see Jews condemning communism as they do Nazism instead of praising it
>>>and defending the ideology and those who espouse it?
>:.
>>I, a Jew, condemn communism as a failed system, unable to truly work,
>>due to human nature
>
>You condemn it for the wrong reasons! There are other failed sytems too and they
>weren't murderous of millions of Christians!

That it was murderous proves its failure, a successful system would
have never had to resort to murder

>I.E.
>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=cqrhav0th39prr3bf5am4dnkcn89j52p8b%404ax.com&rnum=1
>Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) R_0425
>Date: 25 Apr 2003 08:14:41 GMT
>Message-ID: <cqrhav0th39prr3bf...@4ax.com>
>
>>>2) If communism was/is an oppressor of Jews then why are so many Jews and their
>>>Gentile sycophants so virulent against "anti-communists" YET are kind to
>>>"anti-Nazis"?
>:.
>>In your dreams
>
>In YOUR dreams!

Nope, not thesort of things which I dream about.

I agree with the anti-communists, as much as I do the anti-Nazis

>>>3) If communism was/is so oppressive to Jews then why is it primarily Jews who
>>>spread it? (No one sees Jews spreading Nazism but Jews do spread communism!)
>:.
>>Hogwash

Snipped outdated crap which has next to NOTHING to do with most modern
day Jews

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