reviews of winter running clothes

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 12, 2004, 12:33:06 AM1/12/04

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Intro:

My motive for doing this is that there is a lack of decent clothing reviews
on this newsgroup and outside. This should at least give newbie googlers a
starting point.

General points:

(1) Never pay retail. Or at least almost never. Either get a discount from
your local shop, or get these items cheaply online. These items and items
that are similar are usually available for about 50% off or close to that.

(2) Quality trumps quantity. Most of these clothes should be hand-washed, and
they line-dry overnight, so it's not necessary to have 101 duplicates of each
item (get that, Global ?)

(3) My (*) ratings are completely subjective and biased, and I may dock points
off for things you don't care about (e.g. if I think it should be reflective
and it isn't) or price (which may be irrelevant if you can get the item in
question at 60% off) IOW, the * ratings are worthless if you don't understand
why I gave them (and arguably worthless anyway)

(4) There are lots of brands that make good clothing. The ones I can think of
are SportHill, Hind, Insport, Sugoi, Pearl Izumi, Moving Comfort, Craft, and
all the running shoe brands. My choices of items are somewhat arbitrary, other
brands make similar items. I've tried to offer examples where possible. My
favourite brands are SportHill, Sugoi and Insport -- all of these seem to offer
some very good clothing. For example, Sugoi have the best reflective tights on
the market, and a top notch soft-shell jacket. SportHill's semi-fitted 3SP
clothes like the famous XC pant makes their "shed the layers, keep the warmth"
slogan ring true. But all the major brands are good. Insport offer almost
every type of Polartec available, and I happen to like Polartec. YMMV, of
course.

(5) Websites (high star rating for informative, useful websites)

Insport: http://www.insport.com (*****) Includes online discount store
SportHill: http://www.sporthill.com (*****)
Hind: http://www.hind.com (*****)
Sugoi: http://www.sugoi.ca (*****)
BOA: http://www.boausa.com (**) A little low key-- photos of products
would be nice instead of sketches
Asics: http://www.asics.com (*) This website is a waste of time
UnderArmour http://www.underarmour.com (****) Decent website, too bad most of
it isn't worth buying.

And now the reviews:

Summary:
Rating Price Pckt Refl Fabric
SportHill Explorer Top **** 85 n n 3sp/swift
Insport Fleece Trainer **** 68 n n Heavy duty Polartec
Technifine Travel Pants ***** 65 2 n Lightweight Polyester
FinoPlus Drive Tee ***** 65 n y Lightweight Polyester
Pearl Izumi Escape Jacket ***** 90 3 Y Polyester shell
Asics Arashi Jacket *** 130 3 Y Poly in/Nylon out
Sugoi Windhibitor Focus Jacket **** 135 3 y 3 ply polyester
UnderArmour Cold Gear Top ** 50 n n nylon
Brooks Vapor Dry Zip top *** 65 n n nylon
BOA Dritek Sensor Tight **** 60 n n Midweight Polyester
Sporthill Infuzion hat ***** 20 Polyester
Sporthill Infuzion glove ***** 20 Polyester

Insport Fleece trainer
(newer versions are sometimes called ``vapor fleece trainer'')

Retail: $68-
Fabric: ``heavyweight'' Polartec Powerdry
Fabric type: polyester, fleece texture inside, smooth out.
Packets: no
Reflective: no

Review:

This fabric wicks like crazy. When I line-dry it, the inside is dry to touch,
within minutes of hanging it up. The moisture transport on this fabric works
like charm. Score one to Insport for using Polartec in their products.

Where to buy "for cheap":

Insport is available on the "sale" section of insport.com, also try
rei-outlet.com

**** (great, but I'd like some reflective material)

Similar products: Hind Arctic Drylete, Sugoi SubZero, SportHill Infuzion

SportHill Exporer top

Retail: $85-
Fabric: Front: 3sp. Back: swift. ``heavyweight'' Polartec Powerdry
Fabric type:
3sp: windproof polypro. Brushed texture inside, smooth out.
Swift: polyester, fleece inside, smooth out.
Pockets: no
Reflective: no

Review: The 3SP is genuinely windproof. This top is not that thick/heavy
looking, but it is very good as a single layer in freezing and windy
conditions (mid 20s to low 30s). The windproof property means that it can
perform a dual role of a jacket and warm top.

3SP is moderately stiff, not as cozy as fleecy polyester
but not uncomfortable either.

The swift fabric is similar to that in the Insport top. SportHill also make
``homogeneous'' tops: the XC top is completely made of 3SP, the Infuzion
top is similar to the Insport top above, made of Swift.

The mix provided by the explorer top is quite good-- the windproof property is
really much more useful at the front than at the back.

Both the fabrics (3sp, swift) do a reasonable job at moisture transport, the
swift fabric is close to Polartec powerdry, the 3sp not quite as good but not
bad either.

What's missing ? Pockets, reflective material.

**** (gimme some reflective material and a pocket!)

Where to buy: rei-outlet.com has a good supply of heavily discounted (50%)
Sporthill clothes.

Sugoi Technifine Travel Pants
Retail: $65-
Fabric: Technifine
Description: lightweight polyester
Pockets: two side zip pockets
Reflective: no
Review: a good starting point for someone who wants lightweight running pants.
Material is similar to that used in lightweight long sleeve tees.
Where to buy: rei.com

***** A nice pair of runing pants

Finoplus Drive Tee
Retail: $65-
Fabric: Technifine
Description: lightweight polyester
Reflective: Scotch-lite detail on sleeves

A nice long sleeve tee. Good for the slightly colder "shorts" days. But
I'm considering giving this fabric up in favor of Polartec Powerdry/Xstatic
Similar products: Insport Drysport tops

***** A winner

Pearl Izumi Escape Jacket
Retail: 90
Fabric: Zepphyr 2 Polyester
Description: lightweight shell
Pockets: "Hidden" chest zip pocket, side zip pockets.
Reflective: scotch-lite tape on back. "Screaming Yellow" is very bright in
its own right.

Review: Very light shell jacket with pockets. Nice for visibility especially
in the screaming yellow, and seems waterproof/breathable enough. The Flash
jacket is similar except has larger reflective patches. A solid product,
though not earth shattering (or to put it another way, there are a lot of
very good jackets on the market)

This jacket has it all, and it's at the right end of the price spectrum
(though one may get something good cheaper at REI)

***** cos it's really good. But so is the competition.

Where to buy: rei-outlet frequently have cheap shell jackets. Look for:
(*) Stretch material
(*) Reflective piping
(*) Pockets
(*) Mesh armpits or more breathable material in the sides.
(*) Or underarm zips
(*) Drop tail (if you're cycling)

rick++

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Jan 12, 2004, 11:16:29 AM1/12/04

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I dont recall paying more than $10 a piece in years. That includes
lycra-blend tights, shirts, outer-shell nylon wind pants, jackets.
Add a layer every -20 degrees or so.
A good time is is end-of-season, coming in about a month.
Now and then scan discount shops like TJ Maxx, Ross, Nike outlet.
I've seen a lot of this stuff at Target, as recently as yesterday.

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 12, 2004, 11:43:20 AM1/12/04

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You might be able to get no-name stuff "for-cheap". I've rarely seen name brand
stuff for less than about 50% off, and the starting prices are quite high. When
name-brand stuff does appear, it will probably be Nike, and it probably won't be
something from their performance apparel line. I suppose this sort of thing
is partly locale dependent (I could see something like a Nike outlet having
some genuine bargains) but that's my experience anyway. YMMV, of course.

I don't mind blowing a bit more cash on name-brand. For example, my Sporthill
Expolorer and Insport Polartec tops are going to easily outlast my shoes.
On the other hand, the cheapo "Champion" coolmax briefs I purchased recently
were a complete waste of money.

I prefer to save money by not having a huge wardrobe -- some ``thrifty''
runners may only pay $10-$20 per item, but then they go and buy 5 duplicates of
the same thing, and they end up spending as much as or more than me anyway. I
simply don't buy duplicates (except socks).

Cheers,

Globaldisc

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Jan 12, 2004, 1:07:46 PM1/12/04

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$10 a piece in years. That includes
lycra-blend tights, shirts, outer-shell nylon wind pants, jackets.

____

Can I call you on this one rick? $10 outer-shell jacket? hard to believe.
i'm talking about something w/the technology & design of "real running shells".
i.e. waterproof, windproof, breathable, reflective, moisture management, all
that good stuff. makes a big difference in real world use i find. plus i
love all the convenient snaps and zips, etc... the cheap stuff that cuts
corners here and there is unacceptable for me.

Most of my shells are New Balance....picked them up from $20-25 at
newbalancewebexpress and on Ebay. I've got some great deals on quality gear on
Ebay....new stuff. Keep an eye on ebay and you can pick up quality shells
(stuff that will last), real running gear at a good deal. The novelty aspect
of this one item might jack up the price a bit but the below ebay item will
probably go for about $23-$27 or so....it's an official New Balance Chicago
Marathon '03 Shell. Right now it's at $12.50 and the auction ends later
today...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2777778574&indexURL=1#e
bayphotohosting

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 12, 2004, 1:54:02 PM1/12/04

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In article <20040112130746...@mb-m16.aol.com>, Globaldisc wrote:

> Most of my shells are New Balance....picked them up from $20-25 at
> newbalancewebexpress and on Ebay.

I checked these out and they both looked quite promising.

I like the direction this thread is taking -- addressing the question, where a
cheapskate runner can get good clothing. roadrunnersports is great for shoes, but
lacking in apparel. Dot's prior rant about roadrunnersports (saying that it was
a lousy place to get winter clothing) was dead on. It almost seems as though
they've cut back on everything else so they can sell their own brand.

Since we're drifting to the topic of clothing for cheapskates -- does anyone
use Duofold clothing ? I've noticed that this stuff is made of coolmax, and is
also very cheap (and often available at a discount from the already cheap
price).

Dot

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Jan 12, 2004, 2:42:19 PM1/12/04

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Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

>
> Since we're drifting to the topic of clothing for cheapskates -- does anyone
> use Duofold clothing ? I've noticed that this stuff is made of coolmax, and is
> also very cheap (and often available at a discount from the already cheap
> price).

Yep, that's about all I wear for the base layers - after the
recommendations here a couple years ago to go to CampMor. Some of it is
coolmax (short-sleeve t's), but most of what I've got is other types of
polyester or synthetic. Sierra trading post is another good place to get
gear, I think.

I'm with Rick++ - it doesn't have to be expensive, although I think some
of my stuff might've been between $10-$20. Get'em from CampMor. Haven't
checked stuff lately as I've got one of a couple things in different
weights. That's been the standard reviews in past years - go to CampMor
on sale and buy duofold or whatever else is on sale. I got the tip here
2 years ago. But my fleece tends to be from REI just because I had that
before the CampMor tip. My summer shorts are from Wal-Mart since I
haven't seen anything better anywhere else. I'd like to improve on them,
but haven't seen anything I like better.

And if it can't be machine washed, I won't buy it. If a product can't
stand a washing machine, it sure isn't going to tolerate trail running
;) and I have better things to do with my time than hand wash stuff. All
my stuff goes in the dryer also - cool cycle.

FWIW, *for me*, I generally stay away from running shoe brands of
clothing or "running"-type clothes. At least around here, they're sold
mostly in FootLocker and Sports Authority and are poor quality and
design (sometimes better designs are at Wal-Mart)- at least for what I
look for in running gear. They rarely have pockets large enough for a
hat and mittens, and I've never seen a decent hood on one. The local
(45mi away) running store has some nice name brand (perl isumi, maybe?
but it's been awhile) running jackets (close to $100), but none have
hoods and only small pockets so I go across town to REI. The running
store said nobody buys hooded versions if they stock them. But REI sells
a lot of gear to runners, including jackets with hoods - and some of
their sales people are trail and/or ultra runners.

Most people in the other running groups I'm in tend to get running gear
from outdoor stores, like REI and the Canadian equivalent MEI(?). I've
found outdoor gear far better designed for winter or trail running than
running gear is, at least for me. I have bought some stuff at National
Running Center, but I like my duofold and rei gear better. Patagonia is
another popular brand but I've never been able to justify their cost.
When trail running, I'm not always upright and vertical and might be
bushwacking through trees. My gear has to stand some abrasion. But I've
noticed the orienteers wear even different clothes - look snag resistant.

The exception to cheap is my sporthills xc, power dry tights (got before
I knew about duofold from Campmor), but most importantly, my Gore-tex
shell from REI that has a really nice hood that protected me from the
50+ mph winds last week, good pockets, breathable enough for the
conditions where I wear it, pit zips that can be closed (one running
jacket has non-closeable mesh openings covered by yoke - talk about air
conditioning in windy conditions :( ). My rei hood rocks! I do tend to
wear polar fleece vest and/or jacket sometimes, but I had gotten the
vest mostly for field work and the jacket precedes Campmor knowledge.
CAmpMor may have good shells, but I got mine before knowing about them.

Here's a link with info about various fabrics - and it has links to
other info...
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/terms.htm

BTW, sporthill xc's are not windproof. They advertise that up to 35mph,
but I find them drafty at about 20mph and need tights under them in
anything under about 20F, in spite of their claim for 0-40F wear. But
that's me. You can test in a store by blowing through them with your
mouth. Do that with Windstopper fabric and *nothing* comes out the other
side. Some other materials will have varying degrees of windproofness.
The xc's are fairly tear resistant though. I wiped out badly last winter
- drew blood from my knee underneath my sporthills, but never did find
any tear in the pants!!

NFI.
But I do wish I owned stock in Malden Mills ;) They've got some great
materials - powerdry, polarfleece, powerstretch. For those that haven't
used polarfleece, it's fleece but stretchable - not tight fitting but
moves with body.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 12, 2004, 4:20:39 PM1/12/04

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In article <vMCMb.23405$6y6.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:

This thread is becoming more and more interesting ... I'm going to make a point
of summarising the results and putting it on a webpage afterwards.

> Yep, that's about all I wear for the base layers - after the
> recommendations here a couple years ago to go to CampMor. Some of it is
> coolmax (short-sleeve t's), but most of what I've got is other types of
> polyester or synthetic. Sierra trading post is another good place to get
> gear, I think.

Cool. I just browsed around Campor and it does look very good.

> I'm with Rick++ - it doesn't have to be expensive, although I think some
> of my stuff might've been between $10-$20. Get'em from CampMor. Haven't

Though presumably not the windbreakers (-;

> FWIW, *for me*, I generally stay away from running shoe brands of
> clothing or "running"-type clothes. At least around here, they're sold
> mostly in FootLocker and Sports Authority and are poor quality and
> design

In all fairness to "running clothes", the so-called "running clothes" one
finds in FootLocker are not comparable to those one finds in a good
specialty running clothes store (not RRS)
This boils down to two issues:
(1) FootLocker barely even have running gear at all, and when they do stock
it, they usually only have the low-end items. You don't go to FootLocker to
buy XC pants.
(2) The same is often true even of sports stores that have a reasonable
size running section.

That said, I suspect that one advantage the non-running shoe brands have (e.g.
SportHill) is that they target a broader market. For example, SportHill also
market to the skiing crowd. Even running specialty shops often don't stock the
more heavy duty variants of these products, and even totally omit some of
the better brands (e.g. I've seen running stores that don't carry SportHill,
and I've seen no running stores that carry Patagonia)

> (sometimes better designs are at Wal-Mart)- at least for what I
> look for in running gear. They rarely have pockets large enough for a
> hat and mittens, and I've never seen a decent hood on one. The local
> (45mi away) running store has some nice name brand (perl isumi, maybe?
> but it's been awhile) running jackets (close to $100),

Pearl Izumi make jackets with drawstring hoods, but you won't find them in
FootLocker, and probably won't even find them in a general sporting goods
shop, or even a running store, because of the above.

> The exception to cheap is my sporthills xc, power dry tights (got before

PowerDry is the one reason I like Insport (nearly all their stuff is Polartec)

> BTW, sporthill xc's are not windproof. They advertise that up to 35mph,
> but I find them drafty at about 20mph and need tights under them in anything
> under about 20F, in spite of their claim for 0-40F wear. But
> that's me. You can test in a store by blowing through them with your
> mouth.

I've actually tried this. Couldn't get any air through them.

Warmth is one area where there seems to be a lot of individual variation. It
seems that the relatively young males seem to need less heavy clothing,
especially the faster ones. I'm comfortable in moderately less than the
"SportHill spec", and some of the faster runners here (e.g. David of the
"Training Week" thread) train in clothes that I would freeze in.

One of the main things I've learned from reading your posts is that not everyone
shares my physiology or environment, and the differences do have fairly important
consequences on a number of fronts.

> But I do wish I owned stock in Malden Mills ;) They've got some great
> materials - powerdry, polarfleece, powerstretch. For those that haven't
> used polarfleece, it's fleece but stretchable - not tight fitting but
> moves with body.

Yep. It's really good stuff. Warm, snug, and you can wear it without looking like
a circus exhibit.

Angus MacGregor

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Jan 12, 2004, 5:13:18 PM1/12/04

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Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc04cci...@panix2.panix.com>...

> Intro:
>
> My motive for doing this is that there is a lack of decent clothing reviews
> on this newsgroup and outside. This should at least give newbie googlers a
> starting point.

You gays are so fashion conscious.

Globaldisc

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Jan 12, 2004, 10:27:44 PM1/12/04

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Get'em from CampMor.
__

dot, good store, i've bought lot of stuff from them....you can get a good timex
ironman watch for like $15 there. since i happen to live in new york
city....i've bought from them on-line and have also gone to their store on rte.
17 in new jersey.....it's about 12 or so miles from manhattan.

fyi, that link i posted for the New Balance Official Chicago Marathon
Shell...check that link again....you'll see that quality shell sold for $12.51.
damn good deal even w/shipping costs.

Perdy Tired

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Jan 12, 2004, 11:15:02 PM1/12/04

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> Since we're drifting to the topic of clothing for cheapskates -- does
anyone
> use Duofold clothing ? I've noticed that this stuff is made of coolmax,
and is
> also very cheap (and often available at a discount from the already cheap
> price).

I've bought a considerable amount of Duofold base layer clothing. Mostly
from http://www.rei.com/outlet/index.html and
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/

I've found their CoolMax® and CoolMax® Alta products are excellent. Their
own brand VariTECT Performance HydroDuctT is far less impressive. I would
not recommend the latter.

I have also found http://www.nationalrunningcenter.com/ can have fairly
reasonable pricing (especially if you get on their mailing list and get an
occasional 10% discount coupon).

---

The best thing about being a cheapskate is walking into the local (and may I
add, terribly overpriced) running store and seeing their Coolmax Alta long
sleeve tees (regular price CDN$49.99) on sale for CDN$39.99, and knowing I
paid between US$11 (CDN$14) buying them online from the SierraTradingPost in
the US.
http://tinyurl.com/2vb9j

Another is the Hind Arctic Drylete Top I bought from REI-Outlet for US$42
(CDN$54), that my local running store sells for CDN$140
http://tinyurl.com/2llj9

The above is only a couple examples of the online savings I find instead of
paying the inflated prices at our local running stores.

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 12, 2004, 11:57:49 PM1/12/04

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In article <btvrcj$c1cv5$1...@ID-102047.news.uni-berlin.de>, Perdy Tired wrote:
>

Thanks for the info on Duotech.

> Another is the Hind Arctic Drylete Top I bought from REI-Outlet for US$42
> (CDN$54), that my local running store sells for CDN$140
> http://tinyurl.com/2llj9

Running store price in the US is about $65 US for the Arctic Drylete top. I
think you may be getting hit with some sort of import penalty when you buy
via the running store.

How do you like the Arctic Drylete top anyway ? Could you throw together a
review along the lines of what I wrote ? What kind of conditions do you wear
it in ? It looks very warm (I've seen these in the shops)

Dot

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Jan 13, 2004, 1:35:49 AM1/13/04

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Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <vMCMb.23405$6y6.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:
>
>
> Though presumably not the windbreakers (-;

To be honest, I hadn't looked at them since I had gotten my shells
elsewhere. But they do have my summer rainshell - although not as cheap
as I paid. I've found pictures don't give a really good idea of the
hoods or the pockets for that matter. I'm really fussy about my top
shell and am still looking for the perfect one, kinda like the Holy
Grail ;) I'm not convinced the appropriate materials have been invented
yet.

>
> In all fairness to "running clothes", the so-called "running clothes" one
> finds in FootLocker are not comparable to those one finds in a good
> specialty running clothes store (not RRS)

Right, but those stores are the only ones that carry "running shoe"
brands of clothing locally - like Nike, Adidas(iirc). The techie ones
in running shoe stores have other limitations - like no well-designed
hoods and pockets, if any, are too small to be useful - at least for me.
That's why I was looking elsewhere ;)

I'll admit I really like the feel of some of the microfiber material,
but the ones I've seen just haven't been that functional for trail
running up here.

>
> That said, I suspect that one advantage the non-running shoe brands have (e.g.
> SportHill) is that they target a broader market. For example, SportHill also
> market to the skiing crowd. Even running specialty shops often don't stock the
> more heavy duty variants of these products, and even totally omit some of
> the better brands (e.g. I've seen running stores that don't carry SportHill,
> and I've seen no running stores that carry Patagonia)

Both better outdoor (not all the cheapies) and running stores carry
SportHill xc pants and Patagonia up here - at least the underwear. But
keep in mind, that most people up here aren't activity specific. I'd be
hardpressed to find someone that only runs. In fact, several of the
sales people at the running store are xc skiiers - at least one of
national caliber. The Anchorage ultra running group occasionally
announces to bring skis or snowshoes to get through some of the places
on planned training runs. In the other on-line running groups I
participate in, they are mostly trail runners mixed with other
activities like adventure racing, climbing, mt biking, and assorted
other activities.

>
> Pearl Izumi make jackets with drawstring hoods, but you won't find them in
> FootLocker, and probably won't even find them in a general sporting goods
> shop, or even a running store, because of the above.

They also cost close to $300 and up, according to their web page, and
I'm not sure how large their pockets are or how well sealed the hoods
are, but they do appear better than the ones I've seen. The stuff the
running store carries is closer to $100. Hmm, wonder if it's the price
why it doesn't sell, rather than the hood.

>>BTW, sporthill xc's are not windproof. They advertise that up to 35mph,
>>but I find them drafty at about 20mph and need tights under them in anything
>>under about 20F, in spite of their claim for 0-40F wear. But
>>that's me. You can test in a store by blowing through them with your
>>mouth.
>
>
> I've actually tried this. Couldn't get any air through them.

You didn't blow hard enough ;) I can blow through mine and make a piece
of paper flutter. And I know I've always been able to blow through them
- ever since one of the first nights when I noticed how drafty they
were. Must be all that hill work developing lung power ;)

>
> One of the main things I've learned from reading your posts is that not everyone
> shares my physiology or environment, and the differences do have fairly important
> consequences on a number of fronts.

Right. I'm assuming by "environment" you mean both physical like weather
as well as the types of runs - city streets vs trails, orienteering, etc.

I'd also add "goals" to the list. On many of my runs I don't have
trouble keeping warm for the duration of the run, BUT I will notice my
legs getting colder or my cb tube getting close to freezing. IOW, for
longer runs, I haven't hit the right balance of gear yet. Folks that are
fast and doing marathons or shorter are only going to be out there for a
few hours. I need to build beyond that point in winter since I'm slow
and want to go a little longer, although goals are summer oriented. I
also prefer to have a greater margin of safety built in when running on
trails in winter than I would on roads. That's what I realized my first
year on the group. What works for others here may not work for me, and
what works for me may not be needed by most others here - but I try to
add some diversity to the group, just in case there's some other
adventurers out there ;)

PMcDC

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Jan 13, 2004, 2:01:05 AM1/13/04

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yes---i've gotten the duofold tops and tights from sierra trading post and am
still (3-4 years later) as enthusiastic about them. they do the job for me
excellently, and are mega-comfortable. and i liked dealing with the
company very much.

Perdy Tired

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Jan 13, 2004, 10:02:24 AM1/13/04

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> Running store price in the US is about $65 US for the Arctic Drylete top.
I
> think you may be getting hit with some sort of import penalty when you buy
> via the running store.

I think the only penalty here lies in the reality of supply and demand
(there are no duties,levies, etc. on clothing -- if there was I'd be paying
it as well when I import the clothes). The availability of quality high
tech running gear around here is pretty scarce. Therefore the local stores
can push the price to whatever level the consumer is willing to pay.

> How do you like the Arctic Drylete top anyway ? Could you throw together a
> review along the lines of what I wrote ? What kind of conditions do you
wear
> it in ? It looks very warm (I've seen these in the shops)

---

Hind Arctic DryLete Sportop
http://tinyurl.com/3dx2m

Retail: $42-85
Fabric: Arctic DryLete®3
Fabric type: 87% polyester/13% Lycra
Pockets: No
Reflective: Logos (minimal)

Review:

This top has terrific wicking abilities. As far as the advertised "ultimate
protection up top in below freezing temperatures", doesn't quite cut it for
me. For starters, I think my top is possibly sized a little too large
(which may skew this review). The material works really well though. It is
soft and dry inside and wicks like a charm. I think the fabric is designed
to fit skin tight. Mine is fairly snug, yet allows an air space between the
top and my skin (not to mention a draft from the neck area since it doesn't
close tight either) which makes it too cold as a single layer when the
temperatures dip below 0C (32F). I usually add a coolmax tee shirt
underneath, and a fleece vest on top, and this combination is good down
to -18C (OF). Below that (or in windy conditions), adding a shell has taken
me comfortably down to -30C (-22F). The fleece vest adds the pockets the
top is missing, and the extra warmth I like in the trunk area.

Where to buy "for cheap": Rei-outlet.com

**** (great, but I'd like some more reflective material and pockets)

---

Hind Highlite Shell

Retail: $40-90
Fabric: Microlight polyester [Drylete side panels]
Pockets: Yes (plenty)
Reflective: logos, piping, rear jacket pattern

Review:

By far the best shell I have for it's wicking and windproofing abilities. I
think the breathable side panels are its greatest asset when it comes to
breathability. I have a NRC Best-of-Times shell, that is pathetic compared
to this one (my sleeves were always soaked at the end of a run with that
shell).

***** (a great shell)

Where to buy: Rei-outlet.com, National Running Center

Perdy.

jim gravity

unread,

Jan 13, 2004, 10:49:09 AM1/13/04

to

globa...@aol.com (Globaldisc) wrote in message

> since i happen to live in new york
> city....i've bought from them on-line and have also gone to their store on rte.
> 17 in new jersey.....it's about 12 or so miles from manhattan.
>

Lucky you. You know you can take a bus from port authority to
Campmor? There's a Short line bus.

AMH

unread,

Jan 13, 2004, 11:07:26 AM1/13/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc04cci...@panix2.panix.com>...

> Intro:
>
> My motive for doing this is that there is a lack of decent clothing reviews
> on this newsgroup and outside. This should at least give newbie googlers a
> starting point.
>

Good idea. Personal feed back is worth way more than advertising. I
find that I don't sweat as much as others I know. Therefore I can get
away with wearing cotton for most of my running in the winter. I've
always been under the impression that people overdress for the winter,
will sweat too much and end up getting cold before they end their run.
I always tell folks that they should be chilly for the first half mile
to mile. My experience is that I will warm up readily as long as I'm
going my own pace. If I decide to run slower to either recover or run
socially I'll need an extra thin layer. In any case I've saved a ton
of money not having to buy Goretex and other high priced winter gear.

For reference sake I run in NYC where it is often below freezing and
have some extended periods of teens. All temperatures are in F.

I'll start from the top and go down.

Hats:

For rain an old Mets baseball hat or a neato wicking hat I got as a
freebe.
For cold weather I find a full head of hair all the insulation I need
:-> but I wear an ear warmer head band to keep my ears warm. I got a
North Face one years ago at an outlet shop and I pick them up at ski
sales sometimes.
For freezing cold (single digits F) I have a knit hat I got as a
freebee from Shea Stadium.

Jackets:
Rarely use them running. For really cold rain I have a Sugoi bike
jacket that works to keep me warm. Sometimes if it is freezing cold
and windy I'll wear it. For long runs in cold weather I'll sometimes
wear a lightweight nylon windbreaker that was a freebee from a race.

Shirts:
The longer I run the more likely I'll wear one of my Profile polypro
shirts. Up to an hour and even a little beyond I'm fine with plain old
cotton shirts. For a 13 mile run in the freezing range I'd wear
Profile long sleeve shirt under a short sleeve cotton shirt. For
really cold long runs I'd wear my thick Bogner ski shirt or my
Sporthill turtle neck shirt.

Gloves/Mittens:
I really miss my Moving Comfort mittens that I lost while biking. But
now I wear my New Balance thin gloves. I'll double up on thin gloves
when in single digits F.

Tights:
I don't wear wind pants while running unless it was really cold and
windy. I have a pair of Profile thick polypro tights for single digit
F. Under 40 F I'll wear any old pair of lycra tights. I have a
difficult time finding tights that aren't too warm for me. I just got
a pair of Acsics tights that will do fine for colder than cool. But I
prefer just plain old Lycra whenever I can find them on the bargain
rack. Beneath the tights I'll wear a pair of running shorts.

Socks:
Smart wool socks for just about every occasion.

my $0.02
Andy

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 13, 2004, 1:11:58 PM1/13/04

to

> Where to buy: Rei-outlet.com, National Running Center

This is when NRC becomes a good place to buy things... Shortly after
posting that last message an email came in from NRC offering a 17% discount
on apparel.

Here's the discount....
http://tinyurl.com/33ur9

Enjoy!

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 13, 2004, 12:09:54 PM1/13/04

to

In article <1b803152.04011...@posting.google.com>, AMH wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc04cci...@panix2.panix.com>...

> Shirts:
> The longer I run the more likely I'll wear one of my Profile polypro
> shirts.

You mention polypro in a couple of places as your favourite base layer. Any
recommendations regarding where one can acquire these ? I'd imagine one could
get these pretty cheap if one new where to look.

Cheers,

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 13, 2004, 3:15:31 PM1/13/04

to

In article <bu1cdv$cas0c$1...@ID-102047.news.uni-berlin.de>, Perdy Tired wrote:
>
>> Where to buy: Rei-outlet.com, National Running Center
>
> This is when NRC becomes a good place to buy things... Shortly after
> posting that last message an email came in from NRC offering a 17% discount
> on apparel.

Looks good. A question (for you and Dot): are their store brand polypro clothes
any good ?

Cheers.

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 12:02:46 AM1/14/04

to

> >> Where to buy: Rei-outlet.com, National Running Center
> >
> > This is when NRC becomes a good place to buy things... Shortly after
> > posting that last message an email came in from NRC offering a 17%
discount
> > on apparel.
>
> Looks good. A question (for you and Dot): are their store brand polypro
clothes
> any good ?

I don't know? I have several of their store brand items (Best of Times),
although not polypro, and am quite satisfied with them. As a result, I
would assume the NRC polypro clothes would be pretty good too.

Perdy.

gentolm

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 2:18:21 AM1/14/04

to

i use dou-fold but i can nat find it anymore ,,, anyone know???
plodzilla

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 2:38:35 AM1/14/04

to

In article <4004ED3D...@boeing.com>, gentolm wrote:
> i use dou-fold but i can nat find it anymore ,,, anyone know???

campmor

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 9:12:41 AM1/14/04

to

"gentolm" wrote in message....

> i use dou-fold but i can nat find it anymore ,,, anyone know???
> plodzilla

Sierra Trading Post
http://tinyurl.com/2mg5r

CampMor
http://tinyurl.com/3xe8f

REI
http://www.rei.com/

Perdy.

Dave Carlsen

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 9:21:55 AM1/14/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc09sf...@panix2.panix.com>...

> In article <4004ED3D...@boeing.com>, gentolm wrote:
> > i use dou-fold but i can nat find it anymore ,,, anyone know???
>

>My preferred condom is campmor, it lets me feel him penetrating me
>
> Cheers,

You sicko pervert Realbitchy.

AMH

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 9:32:20 AM1/14/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc089j2...@panix2.panix.com>...

> In article <1b803152.04011...@posting.google.com>, AMH wrote:
> > Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc04cci...@panix2.panix.com>...
>
> > Shirts:
> > The longer I run the more likely I'll wear one of my Profile polypro
> > shirts.
>
> You mention polypro in a couple of places as your favourite base layer. Any
> recommendations regarding where one can acquire these ? I'd imagine one could
> get these pretty cheap if one new where to look.
>
> Cheers,

I imagine the already mentioned Campmor would have some. I'm on a gear
buying moritorium so I don't look through their catalog when it
arrived in the mail so I don't know what they have.

I also find them at ski shops. If you want to combine road trip and
shopping trip go to North Conway NH (the Mt. Washington Valley). There
are quite a few ski and outdoor stores amongst the outlets like Ragged
Mountain sports and Chuck Roast. Hike a little, run a little, mountain
bike a little, climb a little and shop a little. Keep your eyes open
for tent sales when you are out and about.

Do not, I repeat, do not buy anything in NYC. Unless you like paying
more than you need to.

Andy

Globaldisc

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 10:16:44 AM1/14/04

to

NRC : IMO most of their generic stuff is poor quality...just cheap crap. I'm
talking specifically about their singlets, shirts, and running shorts. Their
shoes? Never seen deals there I could not get at other places and have never
seen deals there that I could only get there (even w/their coupons) I place NRC
well below most of the on-line places.

They usually have a booth at the bigger racing events in the North East and
bring out all their crap. That's what most of it is.....crap (other than their
name brand stuff). Even their $10-$12 shorts....crap. As compared to for
example...I think newbalancewebexpress.com still has their new year's sale on
where you could get solid quality shorts for $10 on clearance. Yup, NRC is
junk imo.

Tip. The best place I know of to get QUALITY real running stuff is
footlocker.com, believe it or not. Right now they still have a pretty good
selection of sizes and colors in Brook's Sprint Singlets for $9.99. Only
the clueless rip Footlocker as they've always had the broadest selection and
best prices on real runner's shoes. I don't have any 30% off coupons but I
get them emailed to me now and then. Even now without the coupon....at
Footlocker.com you can get Asics Gel Racer V shoes for $50, that shoe is $80 @
RRS. It's been this price there for nearly a year now and I doubt you can find
anywhere on the planet even close to that. Heck, if you're fond of the classic
Gel-Tiger Paw flat, you can get'em for $39 at footlocker...$59 @ RRS.
Heck....there was a nice Nike Hood Running shell in their clothing track
section that was reg. $100, down to $19....I think they have it left only in
small. Feel like something different and exotic but for real runners?
Pearl Izumi Vital. $69 at footlocker.....$100 at RRS and most everywhere.
Believe me...it's worth your while to buy one simple item at
footlocker....because then 2-3 times a year you get an excluse to you 30% off
coupon sent to you and you can then slash the prices even more. (FYI, their
entire line of Pearl Izumi running shoes are deeply discounted at the moment
far below what anyone else can touch...if you've ever been curious about this
shoe...the Out is going for $49....

Andrew....

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 12:49:20 PM1/14/04

to

"Globaldisc" wrote in message...

> NRC : IMO most of their generic stuff is poor quality...just cheap crap.
I'm
> talking specifically about their singlets, shirts, and running shorts.

I think it's more of a case of you get what you pay for? My 'Best of Times'
Element jacket has a tremendous amount of features (hood, pockets, zippers,
reflective, etc.), but is poorer than my (cheaper) Hind Highlite shell when
it comes to breathability and wind resistance. I've also been quite
satisfied with their 'Best of Times' tights and lycra shorts. I've never
bought their singlets or shirts. Each to their own, I guess?

> Never seen deals there I could not get at other places and have never
> seen deals there that I could only get there (even w/their coupons)

OK, test for you... ;-)
...find me the Men's Hind Highlite shell for less than the $33 I paid at
NRC?

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 1:04:00 PM1/14/04

to

In article <bu3vff$dht0a$1...@ID-102047.news.uni-berlin.de>, Perdy Tired wrote:

> I think it's more of a case of you get what you pay for?

Fair enough, but that has to be made explicit -- a $45 top at that shop with
an advertised 50% discount, for example, is not comparable to the sporthill
explorer top.

IMO the fact that they have some dud items in their line (like the items Global
named, or your jacket) makes them a poor choice -- there are many brands that
consistently turn out top quality products, so why risk it on a dud ?

>> Never seen deals there I could not get at other places and have never seen
>> deals there that I could only get there (even w/their coupons)
>
> OK, test for you... ;-) ...find me the Men's Hind Highlite shell for less
> than the $33 I paid at NRC?

Global has actually already pointed to places where one can acquire a jacket
of comparable quality for less than that (see ebay). If you go in with
the mentality that you *must* have a particular brand and model, you're not
thinking like a bargain hunter anymore.

Inspite of this, on this webpage I'm working on (it's a lot of work), I've
added NRC is going on the list of places to look for discounts all the same.
When you're shopping for 50% discounts or better, no store is going to have the
complete HIND/Insport/SportHill/Sugoi/NB clothing line, so it pays to cast a
wide net.

jim gravity

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 1:35:47 PM1/14/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc089j2...@panix2.panix.com>...

> In article <1b803152.04011...@posting.google.com>, AMH wrote:
> > Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc04cci...@panix2.panix.com>...
>
> > Shirts:
> > The longer I run the more likely I'll wear one of my Profile polypro
> > shirts.
>
> You mention polypro in a couple of places as your favourite base layer. Any
> recommendations regarding where one can acquire these ? I'd imagine one could
> get these pretty cheap if one new where to look.
>
> Cheers,

K-mart sells polypro too.

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 14, 2004, 10:00:02 PM1/14/04

to

> > I think it's more of a case of you get what you pay for?
>
> Fair enough, but that has to be made explicit -- a $45 top at that shop
with
> an advertised 50% discount, for example, is not comparable to the
sporthill
> explorer top.

Agreed.

> IMO the fact that they have some dud items in their line (like the items
Global
> named, or your jacket) makes them a poor choice -- there are many brands
that
> consistently turn out top quality products, so why risk it on a dud ?

Now hold on... a dud for me may not be a dud for someone else? For some
reason, in cold weather I seem to have a much greater moisture problem with
my arms than most people. The design of the Hind jacket, in my case, seemed
to compensate for that shortcomings of the NRC jacket, and that was the only
shortcoming I found with it, otherwise it's a well featured jacket (possibly
better than the Hind). I also have a considerably more expensive winter
cycling jacket, which although my warmest, is also my poorest for moisture
transfer? Now maybe I should be looking for a $50 Gortex shell? Good luck
to me, eh? That's the whole problem being a cheapskate shopper, and that
leads full circle back to my 'you get what you pay for' comment. For the
price of a discount Hind, NRC, etc. jacket, you're not getting a Gortex
product! ;-)

> >> Never seen deals there I could not get at other places and have never
seen
> >> deals there that I could only get there (even w/their coupons)
> >
> > OK, test for you... ;-) ...find me the Men's Hind Highlite shell for
less
> > than the $33 I paid at NRC?
>
> Global has actually already pointed to places where one can acquire a
jacket
> of comparable quality for less than that (see ebay). If you go in with
> the mentality that you *must* have a particular brand and model, you're
not
> thinking like a bargain hunter anymore.

I have no specific brand requirements. I just was looking for an apples to
apples comparison where that can be found cheaper? The problem with shoppin
g online, is "comparable quality" is very difficult to comprehend with a
little picture and a text description. I've found several products (name
brand or otherwise) that don't quite live up to their web descriptions.

> Inspite of this, on this webpage I'm working on (it's a lot of work), I've
> added NRC is going on the list of places to look for discounts all the
same.
> When you're shopping for 50% discounts or better, no store is going to
have the
> complete HIND/Insport/SportHill/Sugoi/NB clothing line, so it pays to cast
a
> wide net.

Cool... I hope you let us know the URL when it's up! :-)

Perdy.

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 12:07:31 AM1/15/04

to

In article <20040114101644...@mb-m25.aol.com>, Globaldisc wrote:
> NRC : IMO most of their generic stuff is poor quality...just cheap crap. I'm
> talking specifically about their singlets, shirts, and running shorts. Their
> shoes? Never seen deals there I could not get at other places and have never
> seen deals there that I could only get there (even w/their coupons) I place
> NRC well below most of the on-line places.
>
> They usually have a booth at the bigger racing events in the North East and
> bring out all their crap. That's what most of it is.....crap (other than
> their name brand stuff). Even their $10-$12 shorts....crap. As compared

What specifically is wrong with it ? Just curious.

As for footlocker.com -- their range of footwear is just fine (unlike at the
FootLocker retail stores), but their range of apparel is very limited, even
more so than RRS.

Dot

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 2:47:35 AM1/15/04

to

Perdy Tired wrote:
>
> Now hold on... a dud for me may not be a dud for someone else?

This is so very true. In fact, the whole concept of "quality" really
needs to be defined in any review. Some of the brands or stores that
people bash here may work quite well for others. It's like shoes - it's
the model and what works for you - not the store where it's purchased or
the brand name on it. I know I said I avoided clothing by shoe brands,
and that's a generalization based on what I've seen and what works for
*me*. Others find the gear appropriate for their usage - but they may be
running under totally different conditions than myself. Other people
think REI may have substandard quality or utilitarian function - and it
is for some things. That's why I bought only socks there for years until
I started doing more running - and buying what I call yuppy gear. My
field gear generally comes from army-navy stores. I've never bought any
Sporthill tops (and the local store carried several styles) because they
didn't look like they would work for me (can't remember what was wrong,
but looking at their web page, it looks like they've at least changed
their strange color patterns), even though their xc pants are great. But
they are great for other folks. I recognize my needs are usually very
different from the majority of people on this group.

Dot

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 3:16:49 AM1/15/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

>
> Looks good. A question (for you and Dot): are their store brand polypro clothes
> any good ?

I've bought some of their Best of Times (BOT) stuff and it works fine,
but it's polyester. I haven't bought polypro in years (10+ maybe? - had
a good supply). Not sure if the new stuff is different, but the old
stuff was very subject to melting in dryer, even on warm cycle - and I
invariably would mix some polypro in with my regular clothes. Newer
fabrics don't do that - or at least not as readily (hasn't happened to
me yet), and they don't pill as much as the older polypro. Maybe newer
versions of polypro are better, but I don't think I've even seen it in
Wally Mart. I definitely prefer the feel of powerdry to the old polypro.

Something I should have mentioned earlier also is that silk socks or
other wear can be useful where you need a non-synthetic, non-cotton
fabric, probably not an issue for running but it is for some field work
if around fires. Synthetics burn and melt on you.

Dot

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 3:25:30 AM1/15/04

to

AMH wrote:

I'm on a gear
> buying moritorium so I don't look through their catalog when it
> arrived in the mail so I don't know what they have.
>

You, too ;) I sat down with a catalog the other day and then realized I
wasn't in need of anything in particular and already had more
combinations than I could test ;)

Doug Freese

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 8:10:15 AM1/15/04

to

Globaldisc wrote:

> Tip. The best place I know of to get QUALITY real running stuff is
> footlocker.com, believe it or not. Right now they still have a pretty good
> selection of sizes and colors in Brook's Sprint Singlets for $9.99. Only
> the clueless rip Footlocker as they've always had the broadest selection and
> best prices on real runner's shoes.

I used to ignore footlocker thinking their web page was just an
extention of their shoddy, shitty stores. I remember when Roadrunner
suddenly ran out my Asics 2070's someone pointed me to footlocker
and to my surprise they not only had them in my size but were very
reasonably priced. I still dispise the mall stores.

My family and friends manage to keep me in running togs for years to
come so the only thing I shop for is shoes.

> I don't have any 30% off coupons but I
> get them emailed to me now and then.

Bookmark http://currentcodes.com/ and dial in you favorite store and
you can keep up with all the discounts. I can almost always find a
10-15% off code for Roadrunner plus my Run America 5% Run American
club discount. I will usually compare prices just for the hell of it.

--
Doug Freese
"Caveat Lector"
dfre...@NOBShvc.rr.com

Donovan Rebbechi

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 12:49:50 PM1/15/04

to

In article <rArNb.39906$6y6.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot wrote:

> This is so very true. In fact, the whole concept of "quality" really
> needs to be defined in any review.

Reviews are by their very nature subjective and biased. I'm more interested in
experiences people have had than anything else.

You'll note that this is largely an issue that I've avoided in these reviews.
There are subjective star ratings, but it's stated up-front that these are
arbitraty, subjective and arguably worthless. What's more important is what
the product actually does, and how it works (or doesn't work) for people.

> Some of the brands or stores that people bash here may work quite well for
> others.

Probably true. It often happens that a product does what it's supposed to do, but
just doesn't meet someones need. For example, Perdy's NRC jacket appears to have
failed to provide enough breathability -- people like him will always want to go
for the most breathable design possible, possibly even a vest. That's one reason
I'm interseted in collecting some different points of view (btw, you're welcome
to submit any reviews for the website ... )

> is for some things. That's why I bought only socks there for years until
> I started doing more running - and buying what I call yuppy gear. My

^^^^^^^^^^
I like the terminology (-;

> field gear generally comes from army-navy stores. I've never bought any
> Sporthill tops (and the local store carried several styles) because they
> didn't look like they would work for me (can't remember what was wrong,
> but looking at their web page, it looks like they've at least changed
> their strange color patterns), even though their xc pants are great. But

The XC top more or less matches the XC pants.

They have two variations on the theme: the explorer top (3SP front/sleeves,
swift elsewhere) and the Pinnacle top (pockets, soft material on the sides).
Since I'm fine in the Explorer top (without other layers) down to single digits
+ windchill, the other variations are an overkill for me.

The main problem I'd suppose you'd have with these tops is that they're designed
to perform the role of a jacket + insulator. If you're already wearing a jacket,
Polartec or similar will be just as warm and probably more comfortable.

Perdy Tired

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 1:37:53 PM1/15/04

to

> For example, Perdy's NRC jacket appears to have
> failed to provide enough breathability -- people like him will always want
to go
> for the most breathable design possible, possibly even a vest.

Bingo! You're right on the money!

In cooler temperatures the first layer I add is my microfleece vest. When
it gets too cold (below -18C or 0F), too rainy or too windy, as a last
resort I add a jacket/shell and put up with the breathability limitations.

Perdy.

AMH

unread,

Jan 15, 2004, 2:13:24 PM1/15/04

to

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:<_7sNb.17410$VS4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

> AMH wrote:
>
> I'm on a gear
> > buying moritorium so I don't look through their catalog when it
> > arrived in the mail so I don't know what they have.
> >
> You, too ;) I sat down with a catalog the other day and then realized I
> wasn't in need of anything in particular and already had more
> combinations than I could test ;)
>
> Dot

My gf and I must get a dozen different gear/bicycle/running catalogs
over the course of a month. I consider it a test of will to toss them
before I even open them. Beside we've stuffed 4 bicycles and outdoor
gear into a 1 bedroom closet, er I mean appartment. Our gear closet
runneth over!!!!!!!! Thank goodness we consider our bicycles pretty
enough to hang on the walls.

Andy

jim gravity

unread,

Jan 17, 2004, 1:54:00 PM1/17/04

to

Cheap and warm:

Merino wool sweaters from Target...$10 (on sale) $25 (regularly)
Merona and Mossimo are Target brands I think. Two years ago I got a
bunch of Mossimo sweaters. They are pretty stylin'. I got them
thinking that when they were worn out, I could use them as an
insulating layer for biking or running. Wool kicks butt as a
warm-when-wet insulating layer, and doesn't absorb odors as easily as
synthetics. Last year I couldn't find any sweaters and thought they
stopped making them, but I never thought to check the web site. This
year, I found them, now called "Merona". I got 5. Just looked at the
web site and saw the Mossimo sweaters there but didn't see the Merona
merino wool sweater, so different stores might have different things.

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 17, 2004, 2:01:38 PM1/17/04

to

Could you track down and post some online links ? And may I add you and the
content of this post to the list of rec.running readers ?

Phil M.

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Jan 17, 2004, 2:20:54 PM1/17/04

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jim_g...@my-deja.com (jim gravity) wrote in
news:febcdd69.04011...@posting.google.com:

> Cheap and warm:
>
> Merino wool sweaters from Target...$10

While in a Target in the Chicago area I picked up a ProSpirit long-sleeve
coolmax shirt for $12. That shirt is working out great. I wish I had
bought a few more since I can't find it online or in a Target store in the
Atlanta area. Has anyone seen this online somewhere?

-Phil

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 17, 2004, 11:29:31 PM1/17/04

to

RRS are selling coolmax long sleeve tops for $13.59. See their store-brand
long sleeve crew. You should be able to find a "free shipping" coupon, which
you'll want if you buy apparel from there (because their shipping is quite
expensive)

Perdy Tired

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Jan 17, 2004, 11:42:24 PM1/17/04

to

"Donovan Rebbechi" <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:slrnc0j1ki...@panix2.panix.com...

http://tinyurl.com/2orob

Phil M.

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Jan 17, 2004, 11:49:51 PM1/17/04

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Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in

news:slrnc0k2tb...@panix2.panix.com:

At InSport's site I found their Polartech Turtlenecks on sale for $20. I
picked up a couple of those.

http://tinyurl.com/33fcn

-Phil

jim gravity

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Jan 19, 2004, 11:58:23 AM1/19/04

to

Donovan Rebbechi <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message

> Could you track down and post some online links ?

Perdy beat me to it.

>And may I add you and the content of this post to the list of
rec.running >readers ?

Knock yourself out :)

Donovan Rebbechi

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Jan 19, 2004, 3:20:29 PM1/19/04

to

I've picked up quite a few things from that site-- some of the Fleece trainers
and the X-static gear (which is in the mail). I'm pretty happy with the
Polartec stuff.

You are of course welcome to write a brief review of them in a similar format
to the others already posted.