Rings of Power
Stephen Geard
Has anyone given any thought as to who were the original
keepers of the Three, Seven and Nine Rings, before the Fall
of Eregion?
We know they were made by the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, of whom
Celebrimbor son of Curufin (son of Feanor) was the chief.
Michael Martinez in his Parma Endorion essay "The Elven
Peoples of Arda" suggests, I think correctly, that the
elves who lived in Eregion (including the Mirdain) were
basically those to be found in the west of Beleriand at
the end of the First Age.
Remember at the end of the First Age there were two groups
of elvish 'survivors' in Beleriand: those on Tol Sirion
under Gil-galad, and those in the west of Beleriand under
Maedhros and Maglor. The former were the surviving Sindar and Noldor
of the Houses of Fingolfin and
Finarfin. Whereas the latter were, obviously, the Feanorians.
Michael suggests that this east-west division perpetuated
into the Second Age with the Tol Sirion elves forming the
basis of Gil-galad's kingdom in Lindon, and the Feanorians
settling in Eregion.
Of course it is a little bit more complicated than that.
Celebrimbor himself remained in Nargothrond after his
father's expulsion, so he was probably on Tol Sirion at the
end of the Age. And there is also the difficulty surrounding the
movements of Celeborn and Galadriel. They may have been on Tol Sirion
at the end of the First Age, or (more likely) they crossed the Ered
Luin into Eriador (or futher east) well before the end of the Age.
Either way we know they led the Noldor to Eregion in SA 750.
Of course all of the survivors of Beleriand must have dwelt
in or near Lindon in the earliest years of the Second Age.
It was probably during this period that Celebrimbor
rejoined his Feanorian kinfolk.
We know that around SA 1375 the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, at the
instigation of Annatar (Sauron), revolted against the
leadership of Celeborn and Galadriel and Celebrimbor became the Lord
of Eregion. Annatar then began teaching
the Mirdain the secrets of the Rings of Power. They were
forged in the period SA 1500-1590. Annatar departed Eregion around
1500 (just as the forging commenced). He forged the One Ring around
1600.
It seems likely that the original keepers of the Seven and
Nine Rings would have been the chief of the
Gwaith-i-Mirdain. These were most likely descendants of
Feanor.
We know from HoMe 12 that Maglor and Caranthir were
married, and probably had children. Curufin only had
Celebrimbor, as his wife did not accompany him
into Exile. The other sons of Feanor did not marry. Even so
there were probably quite a number of grandchildren and
great-grandchildren of Feanor. These were probably the
first Keepers of the Seven and the Nine. With regard to the
Three, I think we can be a bit more specific. It strongly
suspect that Celebrimbor forged Vilya (the greatest of the
Three) intending to give it to Annatar. Remember that at
that stage the Mirdain had no reason not to trust Annatar,
and every reason to be grateful to him.
Almost certainly Celebrimbor kept one of the other two (say
Narya) himself and, assuming he was married, gave Nenya to his wife.
So around SA 1590 we have this pathetic scene: the Lord and Lady of
Eregion wearing two of the Three and gathered
around them their kinsfolk wearing the Seven and the Nine.
Whilst their greatest creation, Vilya, is held as a
thankyou gift for their great Teacher.
Stephen Geard
Tasmania
StaveIsle
Mr. Geard wrote:
;So around SA 1590 we have this pathetic scene: the Lord and Lady of
;Eregion wearing two of the Three and gathered
;around them their kinsfolk wearing the Seven and the Nine.
;Whilst their greatest creation, Vilya, is held as a
;thankyou gift for their great Teacher.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Annatar hung around while the Seven and the
Nine were forged, then left. It was then that Celebrimbor wrought the
Three. Sauron was off forging the One. The Nine and the Seven were taken
by Sauron after
the sacking of Eregion and then given to dwarves and men. Before that
time they were unused. Am I wrong? -Tom Radcliff
David Salo
In article <01bc2565$5f6af160$0100007f@default>, "Stephen Geard"
<sge...@msn.com> wrote:
> Remember at the end of the First Age there were two groups
> of elvish 'survivors' in Beleriand: those on Tol Sirion
> under Gil-galad, and those in the west of Beleriand under
> Maedhros and Maglor. The former were the surviving Sindar and Noldor
> of the Houses of Fingolfin and
> Finarfin. Whereas the latter were, obviously, the Feanorians.
Someone screwed up. Tol Sirion is an island in the middle of the
Sirion river in the far north. The island on which the survivors of the
last kin-slaying took refuge was the Isle of Balar (in Sindarin presumably
"Tol Balar"). I know of nothing to indicate that the remnant of the
Feanarioni were in "the west of Beleriand" towards the end of the First Age
rather than in the wild lands of east Beleriand (around Amon Ereb) where
they had dwelt previously, after the destruction of their northern
dwellings. In the Later Annals of Beleriand (entry 340/540) it says
"Maidros and Maglor, sons of Feanor, dwelt in hiding in the south of
Eastern Beleriand about Amon Ered, the Lonely Hill, that stands solitary
amid the wide plain. But Morgoth sent against them, and they fled to the
Isle of Balar. Now Morgoth's triumph was complete..." This agrees with
the entry in the Tale of Years (the last document to deal with this period
of the First Age) for 540: "The last free Elves and remnants of the Fathers
of Men are driven out of Beleriand and take refuge in the Isle of Balar."
(The War of the Jewels, p. 345).
And of course at the very end of the First Age most of Beleriand was
under water, so there is really no question of east and west.
David Salo
Stephen Geard
Ok, I goofed. Substitute "Tol Balar" for "Tol Sirion" at all occurences.
But I stand by everything else.
Stephen Geard
Tasmania
Frode Johnsen
Im relatively new to this group, but Im a devoted Tolkien fan.
I hope you experts out there can help me with the following:
I need info about the Rings of Power.
1) I need to know the names of all of them
2) Who made them and their origional powers
3) Where are they "now" (after Frodo leaves Middle-Earth)
Thank you !
--
Hilsen
Frode Johnsen
Stephen Geard
> 1) I need to know the names of all of them
Only the names of the Three are known:
Vilya (the greatest of the Three, the Blue Ring, held by Elrond at the end
of the
Third Age)
Nenya (the White Ring, held by Galadriel)
Narya (the Red Ring, held by Mithrandir)
Everyone who held the One Ring (plus a couple of others who knew what it
was) called it "Precious," which may have been what Sauron called it.
> 2) Who made them and their origional powers
I am not quite sure what you mean by "original powers." But the Rings
themsleves
(except the One) were made by the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, the elven smiths who
lived in
Eregion. They were made around the year 1500 of the Second Age.
Celebrimbor, the chief of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, alone made the Three.
The original purpose of the Rings was to delay the "fading" of the elves,
to stave
off what they called "the twilight."
> 3) Where are they "now" (after Frodo leaves Middle-Earth)
The One Ring is destroyed.
The Three Rings have been taken over the sea (to, at least Tol Eressea, if
not
futher West).
Those of the Seven and the Nine that were in the Barad-dur at the time of
the
destruction of the One, were probably destroyed. If any were outside the
Barad-dur (or not destroyed) they would have been rendered powerless.
Stephen Geard
Tasmania
> Morgoth <
On 4 Mar 1997, Frode Johnsen wrote:
> Im relatively new to this group, but Im a devoted Tolkien fan.
> I hope you experts out there can help me with the following:
>
> I need info about the Rings of Power.
> 1) I need to know the names of all of them
> 2) Who made them and their origional powers
> 3) Where are they "now" (after Frodo leaves Middle-Earth)
>
> Thank you !
> --
> Hilsen
> Frode Johnsen
>
>
The One - Destroyed in Mordor or atleast it might seem that way.
The Three - passed beyond the sea.
The Seven - lost in mountains deep, and dark.
The Nine - Lost with their masters, the Nazgals.
Any coments. I like your first name, very tolkien, but also
modern.
Balrog Hunter
He wanted the acual *NAMES* of the rings.. The nine and seven I dont
_THINK_ a name is mentioned.. The The Three are:
Elrond's ring: (gold and a blue stone) Vilya, the mightiest of the three.
Galadriel's ring: (Mithril and a white stone) Nenya.
Gandalf's ring: (red stone) Narya the Great.
Sauron's ring was always reffered to as "The One Ring" to my knowledge.. I
will look it up..
--
Jason <aka> Balrog Hunter
->"This is sickening. You sound like the pages from a self-help
handbook."-Kekfa, FF3
You can find my homepage at
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5178
E-mail at slo...@atomic.net
> Morgoth < <mor...@nome.net> wrote in article
<Pine.SUN.3.93.970307...@dwarf.nome.net>...
David Salo
In article <332234...@tcd.ie>, Sean Clayton <clay...@tcd.ie> wrote:
> Balrog Hunter wrote:
> The The Three are:
> > > Elrond's ring: (gold and a blue stone) Vilya, the mightiest of the three.
> > The stone was adamant
> >
> > > Galadriel's ring: (Mithril and a white stone) Nenya.
> > This one was a diamond
> >
> > > Gandalf's ring: (red stone) Narya the Great.
> > Ruby.
> > (Information taken out of LotR III 309-10, and the Sil.)
>
> Are you sure about that? I agree that Narya held a ruby, but I always
> thought that Nenya was adamant and that Vilya was sapphire.
> I don't have my books with me but I thought that when Galadriel
> revealed Nenya to Frodo and Sam, she referred to it as "Nenya, the ~Ring
> of Water, the Ring of adamant".
It's almost unfair to reveal this, considering what Tolkien wrote about
words (see below), but adamant refers to the same thing as diamond; diamond
is really only a worn-down form of adamant, which comes from Greek a-damas
(genitive case adamantos) "unconquerable". Diamond is the unconquerable
stone because it is the hardest of stones, and (mythically, at least) it
cannot be broken by any other stone.
So one can say that Galadriel's ring, Nenya, had a diamond _or_
adamant. Elrond's blue-stoned ring, Vilya, had a sapphire.
Tolkien on rare words (Letter 234), with reference to the poem 'The Man
in the Moon Came Down to Soon' in _The Adventures of Tom Bombadil_.:
"As for _plenilune_ and _argent_, they are beautiful words _before_
they are understood - I wish I could have the pleasure of meeting them for
the first time again! - and how is one to know them till one does meet
them?....
"And the meaning of fine words cannot be made 'obvious', for it is not
obvious to any one: least of all to adults, who have stopped listening to
the sound because they think they know the meaning. They think _argent_
'means' _silver_. But it does not. It and silver have a reference to x or
chem. Ag, but in each x is clothed in a totally different phonetic
incarnation: x+y or x+z; and these do not have the same meaning, not only
because they sound different and so arouse different responses, but also
because they are not in fact used when talking about Ag. in the same way.
It is better, I think, at any rate to begin with, to _hear_ 'argent' as a
sound only (z without x) in a poetic context, than to think 'it only means
silver'. There is some chance then that you may like it for itself, and
later learn to appreciate the heraldic overtones it has, in addition to its
own peculiar sound, which 'silver' has not."
Notes: 1) _plenilune_ means 'the full of the moon', from Latin _plena
luna_ 'full moon'. 2) Ag is the chemical symbol for the element silver,
and is short for the Latin word _argentum_, 'silver'.
This argument can be offered just as well with reference to _adamant_
and _diamond_, both being different phonetic and connotative references to
crystalline carbon.
David Salo
Joshua Dyal
Thus spoke "> Morgoth <" <mor...@nome.net>:
>The Seven - lost in mountains deep, and dark.
Actually, they were either consumed by dragons or gathered by Sauron.
I don't think any of the seven were lost in the mountains.
Joshua Dyal
J-D...@tamu.edu
Sean Clayton
Balrog Hunter wrote:
The The Three are:
> > Elrond's ring: (gold and a blue stone) Vilya, the mightiest of the three.
> The stone was adamant
>
> > Galadriel's ring: (Mithril and a white stone) Nenya.
> This one was a diamond
>
> > Gandalf's ring: (red stone) Narya the Great.
> Ruby.
> (Information taken out of LotR III 309-10, and the Sil.)
Are you sure about that? I agree that Narya held a ruby, but I always
thought that Nenya was adamant and that Vilya was sapphire.
I don't have my books with me but I thought that when Galadriel
revealed Nenya to Frodo and Sam, she referred to it as "Nenya, the ~Ring
of Water, the Ring of adamant".
IIRC....
Sean.
Nimrath
Sean Clayton <clay...@tcd.ie> wrote:
>Are you sure about that? I agree that Narya held a ruby, but I always
>thought that Nenya was adamant and that Vilya was sapphire.
> I don't have my books with me but I thought that when Galadriel
>revealed Nenya to Frodo and Sam, she referred to it as "Nenya, the ~Ring
>of Water, the Ring of adamant".
You are correct.
"Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of
Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and saphire;" (SIL)
"This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper." (LotR,II,vii)
Narya - ruby
Nenya - adamant
Vilya - saphire
Nimrath
Patrick G. Matthews
Morgoth wrote:
> The One - Destroyed in Mordor or atleast it might seem that way.
So it seemed :)
> The Three - passed beyond the sea.
> The Seven - lost in mountains deep, and dark.
As was pointed out, all Seven were either consumed by dragons
or recovered by Sauron. No word on whether the physical rings
survived the collapse of Barad-dur (my guess as to their
location), although their powers certainly ended with the One.
> The Nine - Lost with their masters, the Nazgals.
We don't know for sure whether Saurojn or the Nazgul physically
held the Nine. In any event, we don't know whether or not
the rings themselves perished, although their powers did.
Pat
--
Patrick G. Matthews pat...@mraintl.com
Analyst voice 215.772.9748
MRA International fax 215.772.9716
Opinions expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my employer
Joseph William Dixon
In a fit of madness Patrick G. Matthews (pat...@mraintl.com) wrote:
: > The Nine - Lost with their masters, the Nazgals.
: We don't know for sure whether Saurojn or the Nazgul physically
: held the Nine. In any event, we don't know whether or not
: the rings themselves perished, although their powers did.
Sauron held them physically.
(from "The Hunt for the Ring" [part 3, chapter 4] of Unfinished Tales)
"At length he resolved that no others would serve him in this case
but his mightiest servants, the Ringwraiths, who had no will but his own,
being each utterly subservient to the ring that had enslaved him, which
Sauron held." (p338)
"They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most
suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their
Nine Rings, which he now himself held..." (p343)
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Jerry
In article <5g3qj6$h...@News.Dal.Ca>,
he of done if he had got the ring??? I remind you he has only nine
fingers