Internet In A Box
August Abolins
`Internet in a box' due from Spry
SEATTLE - Spry Inc. later this month is expected to announce
"Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
Users will be able to buy the software and services combination from
local retailers, much like how CompuServe markets its software, a
spokesman says. Pricing and availability were not available at press
time.
_ _ / __
A. /-\|_||_,|_| / / Abolins
* DeLuxe2 1.25 #10137 * aug...@visavis.cam.org
Lars Poulsen
>"Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
>Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
>without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
SprintNet (once called TELENET) is actually one of the larger Internet
access providers. Among other things, SprintNet is the International
Connections Manager for NSFnet.
All of the major interexchange carriers are provisioning Internet
infrastructure in some major way. For example, MCI provides T-3 fiber
(45 mbps links) to NSFnet's carrier ANS (Advanced Networks and
Services, Inc.), which is also part owned by MCI (IBM and MERIT are
the other two partners).
Sprint provides Gigabit ATM links to NASA's Science Internet. And AT&T
provides database services to the Internet Registration Services in
partnership with General Atomics and Network Solutions.
But I agree: Selling hookups to end users is a new thing for them to
do.
--
/ Lars Poulsen Internet E-mail: la...@CMC.COM
CMC Network Products Phone: (011-) +45-31 49 81 08
Hvidovre Strandvej 72 B Telefax: +45-31 49 83 08
DK-2650 Hvidovre, DENMARK Internets: designed and built while you wait
Karl Denninger
August Abolins <aug...@visavis.mtlnet.org> wrote:
>Digital News & Review, NOVEMBER 8,1993..
>
>`Internet in a box' due from Spry
>
>SEATTLE - Spry Inc. later this month is expected to announce
>"Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
>Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
>without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
>Users will be able to buy the software and services combination from
>local retailers, much like how CompuServe markets its software, a
>spokesman says. Pricing and availability were not available at press
>time.
"Without purchasing a subscription to an Internet access provider"?
Excuse me, but what is SPRINT if not a provider in this category?
Second, let me make some general commentary.
This has the potential to be one of the things which changes forever the
topology and free access provisions of the current Internet providers.
For years those of us who provide access gave something back to the
community. Whether it be an anonymous FTP archive (UUNET), DNS services
(MCSNet and many others), mail routing, Usenet, or other services, part of
the reason the net works as it does is that the companies who sell service
also provide something of value to the community in general. We also, in
general, localize services to a great extent (post offices, NNTP Servers,
etc) to defray inter-system traffic. This is a <good thing>. It is the
primary reason that the net works as it does, and as well as it does.
Now, what do you think happens if SPRINT plays "telephone company" <ONLY>
and starts directing those who buy this package to the open NNTP, FTP and
other servers on the Internet? Oh, and where do you get your POPMail from?
I can guess what will happen. Those freely available services out there
will either (1) close up to prevent overload, or (2) start asking for money.
There goes your "no need for an ISP" model right out the window, AND it
screws <the rest of us> in the process.
You can say "but this happens today". True. There is a significant
difference in degree. Today it is a low-scale, low-impact problem
for most providers <because most people have a "home" to log into>.
Tomorrow, especially if this product hits the shelves of mass-marketers
<with the implied or stated promise that you can just use all the "free"
services>, that won't be the case.
You'll have several thousand new net surfers with NO place to call home,
NO local NNTP service, NO local Post Office, and NO local resolvers to
call on. They're going to go out and start trying to hit all these <free>
services.
The Net exists in its present form BECAUSE it is a cooperative venture to
some degree. When that ceases to be the case we'll still have a net, but
the character and nature of it will change.
I like the idea of a "navigator" like Spry's offering. I'm sure there is a
market for Spry's product -- it is integrated and, from what I've heard,
nicely written.
The idea that you can "toss your Internet provider" is nonsense and
polit-speak, and further is dangerous to the near-universal connectivity
that we all now enjoy.
I predict that Spry's customers are in for a big surprise a few months down
the road if they actually rely on that little statement above, and Sprint
and Spry end up with a few thousand (or tens of thousands) of customers who
think they don't need anything other than transport service out of the
deal from Sprint and software from Spry.
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@MCS.COM) | MCSNet - First Interactive Internet and
Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | Clarinet feed in Chicago. Send email to
Voice/FAX: [+1 312 248-8649] | "in...@mcs.com" for more information.
Dave Alexander
(August Abolins) wrote:
> Digital News & Review, NOVEMBER 8,1993..
>
> `Internet in a box' due from Spry
>
> SEATTLE - Spry Inc. later this month is expected to announce
> "Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
> Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
> without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
> Users will be able to buy the software and services combination from
> local retailers, much like how CompuServe markets its software, a
> spokesman says. Pricing and availability were not available at press
> time.
Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour. How much do you
think I'd have to pay for that much SpryNet? A helluva lot more than $55.
The same amount of time on CompuServe at 9600 would be $1,800 at $22.50 an
hour.
Crap like this is going to screw up *everyone* by making big telcos think
they can make an arm and a leg. Goodbye cheap access.
--
al...@spiral.org
Dave Alexander
Society for the Protection of
Individual Rights and Liberties
Minneapolis Chapter
Mike Park
>> "Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
>> Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
>> without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
>Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
>now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour. How much do you
There are still deals to be had for internet access without going via CI$
or their like. In the San Francisco Bay Area you can connect with TLG
at $70/month flat rate _permanent_ connection. (Contact ad...@admin.tlg.rg.net
for more information).
Mike
--
Mike Park mi...@dragoman.com
Lawrence Kirby
>Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
>now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour.
Eeek!
It's 10 pounds per month for unlimited V.32bis/V.42bis SLIP/PPP
access over here! (At least that is compensation for the price of modems).
-----------------------------------------
Lawrence Kirby | fr...@genesis.demon.co.uk
Wilts, England | 7073...@compuserve.com
-----------------------------------------
Khurram Shahzad
>>Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
>>now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>>up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour.
>Eeek!
>It's 10 pounds per month for unlimited V.32bis/V.42bis SLIP/PPP
>access over here! (At least that is compensation for the price of modems).
Wow ! I thought everything in UK cost too much. This is too good to be true.
Before we know it, Brits will be all over internet :)
Shahzad
sha...@ra.msstate.edu
Lawrence Kirby
> Wow ! I thought everything in UK cost too much. This is too good to be true.
> Before we know it, Brits will be all over internet :)
But we already are! :-)
Fong Whye Koon
Naah, BT's phone bills are ghastly, you might pay >55 pounds a month for 80
hrs of modeming. "Pyrrhic" compensation...
Lawrence Kirby
>Naah, BT's phone bills are ghastly, you might pay >55 pounds a month for 80
>hrs of modeming. "Pyrrhic" compensation...
Everybody has to pay telephone charges for dial-up access in addition to the
subscription costs. The costs depend very much on whether you are local or
not and not everybody uses BT.
Andrew Laurence
>Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
>now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour. How much do you
>think I'd have to pay for that much SpryNet? A helluva lot more than $55.
>The same amount of time on CompuServe at 9600 would be $1,800 at $22.50 an
>hour.
Am I reading you right? I'm afraid you're paying way too much. Netcom (the
service that I use) charges $17.50 per month for UNLIMITED ACCESS, 24
hours per day, billed to a credit card. It's $19.50 per month if they bill
you directly. There is a charge for going over 5 MB average monthly disk
storage ($2.00/MB/month), but I've never exceeded one-tenth that amount.
I don't know whether they have a node in your area, but new ones are opening
up all the time. Send mail to sup...@netcom.com for more info.
--
|----------------------------------------------------------|
| Andrew Laurence Oakland, California USA |
| laur...@netcom.com Pacific Standard Time (GMT-8) |
|----------------------------------------------------------|
| A Republican is someone who starts out on third base and |
| thinks he hit a triple. |
|----------------------------------------------------------|
G. Sonny Luster Jr.
Thanks for the post about Netcom. I'm on Delphi and it is excellent.
However, there are restrictions (that I don't like) for business hour usage.
I don't really want to log on all the time, but would like not to be robbed
if I do!
I travel a lot and Delphi is everywhere. If Netcom is as available, I might
switch.
Sonny/IL
GSLU...@delphi.com
CompuServe: 76300,3627
y...@ia.com
In article <laurenceC...@netcom.com>, <laur...@netcom.com> writes:
> al...@spiral.org (Dave Alexander) writes:
>
> >Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
> >now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month
for
> >up to 80 hours.
>
> service that I use) charges $17.50 per month for UNLIMITED ACCESS,
He has a *SLIP* account which usually run between $150 - $250 per month plus
an installation charge. The prices you quoted for Netcom are for a dial-up
shell account. SLIP (serial line internet protocol) allows a pc to connect
to the internet by a telephone line. Some of the advantages are that you can
download/upload directly from/to your pc and, you can run your favorite
clients (gopher, telnet, irc, whatever...) from your pc. To run SLIP it i
Penio Penev
| al...@spiral.org (Dave Alexander) writes:
| >Thanks, but no thanks. Comparing it to CompuServe is about right. Right
| >now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
| >up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour. How much do you
| >think I'd have to pay for that much SpryNet? A helluva lot more than $55.
| >The same amount of time on CompuServe at 9600 would be $1,800 at $22.50 an
| >hour.
| Am I reading you right? I'm afraid you're paying way too much. Netcom (the
| service that I use) charges $17.50 per month for UNLIMITED ACCESS, 24
| hours per day, billed to a credit card. It's $19.50 per month if they bill
| you directly. There is a charge for going over 5 MB average monthly disk
| storage ($2.00/MB/month), but I've never exceeded one-tenth that amount.
The two services are just different. The latter is terminal access to a
netcom machine on the Internet. The former is Serial Line/IP protocol
with the other point, so that _your home computer_ is a machine, with
its own IP number on the Internet.
Does anybody know the best solution for SLIP in the NYC area?
--
Penio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: pe...@venezia.rockefeller.edu
Disclaimer: All oppinions are mine.
John Braden
>On Sun, 28 Nov 1993 07:37:30 GMT Andrew Laurence (laur...@netcom.com) wrote:
>| Am I reading you right? I'm afraid you're paying way too much. Netcom (the
>| service that I use) charges $17.50 per month for UNLIMITED ACCESS, 24
>| hours per day, billed to a credit card.
>
>netcom machine on the Internet. The former is Serial Line/IP protocol
>with the other point, so that _your home computer_ is a machine, with
>its own IP number on the Internet.
Netcom recently announced a POP in the greater Boston area. They offer
SLIP as well as shell account access, but the unlimited access $17.50
rate applies only to shell accounts. Their "Personal Network Connection"
(SLIP) account costs $19.50/month plus $2.00/hr. Regular SLIP dialup
unlimited access accounts are also available at $160/month plus a one-time
$750 set up fee. There are a number of places that offer very reasonably
priced shell account or UUCP access, but apparently SLIP commands a premium
in the marketplace. Anyone know what the real cost differences are
for the access provider? I'd be surprised if SLIP was really more
expensive to provide.
John Braden
--
*****************************************************************
"Things change fast in the computer business. A year is a hell
of a long time. It's like a year in a dog's life."
Tracy Kidder, "The Soul of a New Machine"
Wolfgang Rupprecht
>| >now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>| >up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour.
For Bay Area folks that want a full-time 24-hr, 7days a week
SLIP/CSLIP/PPP connection to the internet, you might want to check out
TLG Coop. Current coop charges are $70/mo. for a full-time
v.32bis/v.42bis connection. TLG, unlike other providers, doesn't care
if you get N freinds to split the connection N-ways. Get 4-freinds
together and pay < $20/mo.
Appended is a blurb I grabbed from a ba.internet posting.
-wolfgang (a happy TLG member)
Newsgroups: ba.internet
From: po...@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar)
Subject: TLGnet Information Sheet
Organization: Late Night Software (San Francisco)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 01:56:09 GMT
Announcing The Little Garden....
THE LITTLE GARDEN -- IP SERVICES
The Little Garden (TLG) is a buyers club providing Internet
connectivity in the greater San Francisco Bay Area. Our prices are the
cost of connectivity plus our reasonably low overhead. In exchange for
these low prices, we expect members to be somewhat self-sufficient
technically. Many members become involved in the operation of TLG,
though this is not necessary.
We have Points of Presence (POPs) in San Francisco, Mountain View and
Palo Alto. We have affiliates in other regions providing similar
service. We are working on extending into other areas.
TLG provides high-quality, reliable basic IP connectivity via full-time
SLIP or PPP, secondary Domain Name Service (DNS), and in some cases,
address space. We provide you with the help necessary to get online. We
don't provide shell accounts, shared, part-time IP, etc.
TLG places no restrictions on content or use of your connection,
including reselling, "back door" hosts, etc. You are of course required
to comply with any AUPs of any networks you communicate with or through
and of course any applicable laws. Compliance with this is the member's
responsibility.
PRICES:
56K SERVICE PRICES:
One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $400.
Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $325.
T1 SERVICE PRICES:
One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $500.
Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $800.
Each member must provide their own CSU/DSU pair, and a 56K or T1
capable connection to their system (such as a router). Each member
must also provide a standalone router at the TLG end or pay for a
fraction of a multi-port router.
OTHER HIGH-SPEED SERVICE:
We are more than willing to work out fair prices on other types of
connections at other speeds, such as 64Kb/s ISDN, 200Kb/s radio,
etc.
LOW-SPEED DIAL-UP SERVICE PRICES:
TLG offers modem-based full-time IP using telephone lines and
dialup-type modems. Additional information is provided near the
end of this datasheet. Ask for further details.
One-time installation fee (non-refundable) . . . . . . $250.
Monthly connection fee . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $70.
The following list gives estimates of goods and services that the
member must cover.
(Probable telco one-time installation fees, total . . $70.
(Probable monthly telco charges, total . . . . . . . . $21.
(Pair of v32bis/v42bis modems, retail . . . . . . . . $400.
PAYMENT DETAILS:
One-time installation fees, and member-supplied hardware must be
provided before TLG initiates the connection.
Members are invoiced for monthly connect fees three months at a time.
Net 15 days, unless otherwise arranged. Initial billing starts with
the first full week following the connection completion, or three weeks
from start of the installation, whichever comes latest.
POSSIBLE TLG/MEMBER RESOURCE SHARING:
Under certain conditions, TLG may be willing to pay for the leased line
to the customer's site, and a portion of the connect fee, if TLG can
install a new POP at the member's site. Depending on various factors,
this could significantly lower the cost to the member for IP services.
As more sites are connected to this new POP, the member housing the POP
would receive a portion of each additional connection fee, effectively
paying for bandwidth used.
Contact information:
The Little Garden
PO Box 410923
San Francisco CA 94141-0923
Information: in...@admin.tlg.rg.net
gopher admin.tlg.rg.net
Associated Networks:
Santa Cruz --
Santa Cruz Community Internet (scruz-net)
903 Pacific Ave. #203-A
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(408) 457-5050
in...@scruz.net
Marin, Sonoma, and Mendocino Counties --
North Bay Network
20 Minor Court
San Rafael, CA 94903
(415) 472-1600
in...@nbn.com
Oregon and Southern Washington State --
RAINet
9501 SW Westhaven
Portland, OR 97225
(503) 297-8820
ad...@rain.com
--
Wolfgang Rupprecht <wolf...@wsrcc.com>
Bay Area: Want a cheap PPP/SLIP internet connection? Email for details.
Richard Foulk
>>>now, I have dial-up 14.4k SLIP access that I pay a standard $55 a month for
>>>up to 80 hours. Anything over 80 hours is $1.75 per hour.
>>
>>Eeek!
>>
>>It's 10 pounds per month for unlimited V.32bis/V.42bis SLIP/PPP
>>access over here! (At least that is compensation for the price of modems).
>>
>
>Naah, BT's phone bills are ghastly, you might pay >55 pounds a month for 80
>hrs of modeming. "Pyrrhic" compensation...
Sounds like it's time to try some of those high-speed radio-modems.
--
Richard Foulk ric...@pegasus.com
Chan Hoong Keong
> Netcom recently announced a POP in the greater Boston area. They offer
> SLIP as well as shell account access, but the unlimited access $17.50
> rate applies only to shell accounts. Their "Personal Network Connection"
> (SLIP) account costs $19.50/month plus $2.00/hr. Regular SLIP dialup
> unlimited access accounts are also available at $160/month plus a one-time
> $750 set up fee. There are a number of places that offer very reasonably
> priced shell account or UUCP access, but apparently SLIP commands a premium
> in the marketplace. Anyone know what the real cost differences are
> for the access provider? I'd be surprised if SLIP was really more
> expensive to provide.
>
I am wondering what extras does SLIP provide that justify the extra
costs over shell accounts? Can they both provide ftp, telnet, mail and
newsfeed?
--
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my
Lars Poulsen
>I am wondering what extras does SLIP provide that justify the extra
>costs over shell accounts? Can they both provide ftp, telnet, mail and
>newsfeed?
The difference is this:
With a shell account, you use your PC as a terminal and log in to a
Unix machine at the service center. If that machine is on the Internet,
you can then use FTP to get files from faraway places onto the disk
of that unix machine. Then you use kermit (or sz or whatever) to get
them from the unix machine to your PC.
With a SLIP account, you don't connect to a Unix machine, you connect to
a router. YOUR MACHINE IS NOW ON THE INTERNET, and you can FTP directly
to your own disk, etc.
In article <2dd9ai$i...@transfer.stratus.com>
bra...@lincoln.hw.stratus.com writes:
> > Netcom recently announced a POP in the greater Boston area. They offer
> > SLIP as well as shell account access, but the unlimited access $17.50
> > rate applies only to shell accounts.
This is just a little under STD World.
> > Their "Personal Network Connection"
> > (SLIP) account costs $19.50/month plus $2.00/hr. Regular SLIP dialup
> > unlimited access accounts are also available at $160/month plus a one-time
> > $750 set up fee.
These prices are commercially viable, but not agressively competitive.
> > There are a number of places that offer very reasonably
> > priced shell account or UUCP access, but apparently SLIP commands a premium
> > in the marketplace. Anyone know what the real cost differences are
> > for the access provider? I'd be surprised if SLIP was really more
> > expensive to provide.
Prepare to be surprised. The $750 setup fee represents the cost of the
hardware that the provider has to install on the port (since at flat
rate, the customer is likely to nail the circuit up in order to have
two-way service).
Leon Dent
Some of you may be interested and able to use a program called "term".
(This is _not_ the commercial program of the same name). Here is a clip
from the README: ------------ Term is a program to implement a slip-like
connection between 2 unix machines. It isn't sl/ip. It runs entirely in
use mode. It requires no kernel support on either end, and no root access
on either end. It is built to run over a modem to connect a non-internet
machine with an internet machine. If this is your situation, and yo udon't
Some of you may be interested and able to use a program called "term".
(This is _not_ the commercial program of the same name).
Here is a clip from the README:
------------
Term is a program to implement a slip-like connection between 2 unix
machines. It isn't sl/ip. It runs entirely in use mode. It requires no
kernel support on either end, and no root access on either end. It is
built to run over a modem to connect a non-internet machine with an
internet machine. If this is your situation, and yo udon't have have
slip/ppp then term is for you.
------------
Term108.tar.gz can be obtained from its mirror site sunsite.unc.edu
in pub/Linux/apps/comm/term. Its home site in Austrailia somewhere.
Term is often discussed in the comp.os.linux hierarchy since it
was developed under Linux (I think).
Leon Dent
l...@umcc.umich.edu
Duke of Canterbury
: In article <754809...@hkchan.pc.my> hkc...@hkchan.jaring.my writes:
: >I am wondering what extras does SLIP provide that justify the extra
: >costs over shell accounts? Can they both provide ftp, telnet, mail and
: >newsfeed?
: With a SLIP account, you don't connect to a Unix machine, you connect to
: a router. YOUR MACHINE IS NOW ON THE INTERNET, and you can FTP directly
: to your own disk, etc.
Not necessarily. The machine that you dial in to is as often as not a UNIX
machine as it is a router or a terminal server. There are no special
hardware requirements on a UNIX box to support SLIP or PPP, and in the case
of dial-up-on-demand versions of either of these protocols, the service
provider may find that the utilization of their modems by a particular user
actually decreases since the user's machine only makes a connection to the
service provider when there are packets to transfer.
The reason that some service providers charge what seems to be a hefty price
for SLIP and PPP connections could be because they assume that they will
have to dedicate a modem and telephone line to the user. Not necessarily the
same modem and phone line on each incoming call, but the service provider
has to plan on this increase in usage for those people that want to keep
their SLIP/PPP connection tacked up all the time.
: Prepare to be surprised. The $750 setup fee represents the cost of the
: hardware that the provider has to install on the port (since at flat
: rate, the customer is likely to nail the circuit up in order to have
: two-way service).
Yep. Even though the service provider may not necessarily dedicate a
particular modem and telephone line to a flat-rate SLIP/PPP user, but may
instead have them go into a hunt group of modems that are earmarked for
SLIP/PPP users, the provider still has to make sure that they have enough
capacity in case most/all of their flat-rate users decide to camp on the
line all day.
mike
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
mike bender ben...@oobleck.eng.sun.com
sun microsystems, inc. 415-336-6353
What do you get when you cross Lee Iacooca and Dracula? AUTOEXEC.BAT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Gloria
>Lars Poulsen (la...@spectrum.CMC.COM) wrote:
>: In article <754809...@hkchan.pc.my> hkc...@hkchan.jaring.my writes:
>: >I am wondering what extras does SLIP provide that justify the extra
>: >costs over shell accounts? Can they both provide ftp, telnet, mail and
>: >newsfeed?
>
>: With a SLIP account, you don't connect to a Unix machine, you connect to
>: a router. YOUR MACHINE IS NOW ON THE INTERNET, and you can FTP directly
>: to your own disk, etc.
>
>Yep. Even though the service provider may not necessarily dedicate a
>particular modem and telephone line to a flat-rate SLIP/PPP user, but may
>instead have them go into a hunt group of modems that are earmarked for
>SLIP/PPP users, the provider still has to make sure that they have enough
>capacity in case most/all of their flat-rate users decide to camp on the
>line all day.
>
>mike
>
Can someone direct me to the source (vendor/manufacturer) that sells
SLIP/PPP for DOS machines?
Thanks,
John
--
--------- John Gloria - jpg...@sysengr.pacbell.com --------
"Fact are facts and will not disappear on account of
your likes." - Jawaharlal Nehru