Tab Browsing Update
David Hyatt
(1) The tabs now flex and shrink down as you add more tabs in order to
fit within the window. You should not really have any serious overflow
problems any longer with this solution.
(2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
when it is the active tab).
(3) The autohide pref is now honored, so you can uncheck it in the
preferences dialog to keep the tab strip visible all the time.
(4) You can now drag a URL to a tab and have it load in that tab.
Whether or not the tab comes to the front when you drop is based off the
background loading pref (the same one used when you middle-click a link).
(5) You can now drag a URL to the tab strip and have it open a new tab.
Again, whether or not the new tab is focused is based off the pref.
(6) When you open new blank tabs using CTRL+T, the tab will no longer
waste time animating and changing its text from "Loading..." to
"(Untitled)". Also, when you open a new blank tab the URL bar will be
empty instead of displaying "about:blank".
Enjoy!
Dave
(hy...@netscape.com)
Jay Garcia
Putting an X in the active tab will make it a little too "busy". Perhaps
just the right-click context menu:
1. Close this tab
2. Close all tabs
--
Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion
Novell MCNE-5/CNI-Networking Technologies-OSI
UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org
Hall Stevenson
> > eliminated. Looking for ideas for a better solution
> > (perhaps an X on the tab only when it is the active tab).
<snip>
> Putting an X in the active tab will make it a little too
> "busy".
How about a 'mouseover' type effect in that the 'X' only
appears when you move the mouse over the tab ?? Maybe add a
short delay before it appears so that it doesn't appear when
you're simply trying to select that tab.
Hall
Screwtape
>(2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
>Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
>when it is the active tab).
FWIW, my favoured tab-closure method is to have Ctrl-W close the
active tab. If there are no inactive tabs, it closes the Mozilla
window.
I don't know how many times I've lost a handful of useful and
interesting unread links to an accidental Ctrl-W...
--
,------------------------------------------------- ------ ---- -- - - -
| Screwtape | Reply-To: is munged on Usenet | members.xoom.com/thristian
|--------------------------------------------- ---- ---- --- -- - - - -
|
| "Woof!", said Timmy.
|
Pratik
> Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
> when it is the active tab).
I like the MultiZilla way of middle clicking on the tab to close it.
Pratik.
Tim Wunder
> I just checked in a slew of tab browsing changes and fixes. Here's a list:
>
<snip>
> (2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
> Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
> when it is the active tab).
Never even noticed that "confusing close box"...
I've been happy with just right-clicking and selecting close tab. Why do
we need more than that?
<snip>
Gervase Markham
> appears when you move the mouse over the tab ?? Maybe add a
> short delay before it appears so that it doesn't appear when
> you're simply trying to select that tab.
Oh no! You shouldn't do this for the same reason you shouldn't have a
Search button which changes to Stop when you are searching. If it
changes just as you click, bad things happen.
The context-menu-only solution is also not ideal, because it's not
particularly accessible. Any new solution should go via
aar...@netscape.com to make sure it is accessible.
Gerv
Ian Davey
That'd be no good on Linux, middle clicking when you've got a URL in the
clipboard opens that URL in the current window.
ian.
--
\ /
(@_@) http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/ (dark literature)
/(&)\ http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/libertycaptions/ (art)
| |
Pratik
> Pratik wrote:
>
>
>>>(2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
>>>Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
>>>when it is the active tab).
>>>
>>
>>
>>I like the MultiZilla way of middle clicking on the tab to close it.
>>
>
>
> That'd be no good on Linux, middle clicking when you've got a URL in the
> clipboard opens that URL in the current window.
>
I use Linux and it works for me. You middle click on the tab, not in the
window. MultiZilla correctly closes the tab. Clicking in the window
though, loads the URL.
Pratik.
Hall Stevenson
> > appears when you move the mouse over the tab ??
> > Maybe add a short delay before it appears so that it
> > doesn't appear when you're simply trying to select that
> > tab.
>
> Oh no! You shouldn't do this for the same reason you
> shouldn't have a Search button which changes to Stop
> when you are searching. If it changes just as you click,
> bad things happen.
Why would it change ?? It would only change from nothing to an
'x'. It either works or it doesn't work. I'm not suggesting a
dual-function like you are when comparing to a search/stop
button.
> The context-menu-only solution is also not ideal, because
> it's not particularly accessible. Any new solution should go
> via aar...@netscape.com to make sure it is accessible.
I don't like that either for the simple reason that many, many
people don't even know you can right-click objects. They may
as well use a Mac mouse...
Garth Wallace
>
> > > How about a 'mouseover' type effect in that the 'X' only
> > > appears when you move the mouse over the tab ??
> > > Maybe add a short delay before it appears so that it
> > > doesn't appear when you're simply trying to select that
> > > tab.
> >
> > Oh no! You shouldn't do this for the same reason you
> > shouldn't have a Search button which changes to Stop
> > when you are searching. If it changes just as you click,
> > bad things happen.
>
> Why would it change ?? It would only change from nothing to an
> 'x'. It either works or it doesn't work. I'm not suggesting a
> dual-function like you are when comparing to a search/stop
> button.
It's bad because it's not easily discoverable. If you
didn't know it wass there, you wouldn't be able to find
it.
Jonas Jørgensen
>
> David Hyatt schrieb:
> >(2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
> >Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
> >when it is the active tab).
>
> FWIW, my favoured tab-closure method is to have Ctrl-W close the
> active tab. If there are no inactive tabs, it closes the Mozilla
> window.
>
> I don't know how many times I've lost a handful of useful and
> interesting unread links to an accidental Ctrl-W...
Yup, me too. I've stopped using the tabs at all simply because I'm
loosing too many links this way. I have filed
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106734 on it. Go vote for it
:) !
Jonas
Thorsten Konetzko
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 02:51:28 -0700 David Hyatt <hy...@netscape.com> wrote:
> (2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
too bad, I just started getting used to it :-)
> Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
> when it is the active tab).
As it is called "tab-browsing" just to avoid the buzzword "single
document interface" >;-> why not look how THEY (whoever that may be) do
it:
Opera, Photoshop, UltraEdit and a bunch of other MS-Windows SDI Apps:
Typical SDI applications add another "min/max/close" combo just below
the main window controls. From a usability point of view this doesn't
make to much sense as there is no "logical connection" between the
current window and the buttons and it's likely a user misclicks the
'close-app-x' which is just a few pixels away - on the other hand a lot
of windows users expect exactly that type of behaviour.:)
Lotus Notes (5/6): Has a permanent close-'x' on each tab when it's
active and an "on mouseover" 'x' on the other tags. Using 3D-effects
and different colors, the 'x' is clearly separated from the rest of the
'tab', yet it still clearly belongs to that particular tab. Additionally
'ESC' closes the active tab.
I really do like the 'Notes-style', yet I'd suggest not to use 'ESC' to
close the active tab as this is AFAIK not used by any program other than
Lotus Apps. Is there something wrong with changing 'CTRL-W' to 'close
the active tab'?
Both ways don't make to much sense from the usability point of view,
though IMHO the 'Notes-Style' is closer.
A 'natural' and 'expectable' behaviour probably would be (apart from a
keyboard shortcut which I think is required):
- 'Click-hold-drag' to reorder the tabs by dragging them to the left or
right. Show tab with transparency and/or 3D-'hover'-effect (drop-down
shadow?), reorder other tabs in real-time to give a preview of the new
position after releasing mouse button.
- 'Click-hold-drag' up or down to 'throw the tab away'. Use a
reasonable distance as threshold: Drag less - tab jumps back, drag
further - tab is gone.
/TK
--
entropy: 4.21 bit/chr
barney
That's nice, but what if you've only got a 2-button mouse? What's the
equivalent to middle click?
Orrin Edenfield
> (2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
I liked the close box at the end. When I'm looking at pictures, I can
open them from thumbnails into different tabs, and then start at the
end, and then close them all in sequence. It works great!
Orrin Edenfield - or...@orrinrule.com
Thorsten Konetzko
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:30:06 -0400 Orrin Edenfield <or...@orrinrule.com> wrote:
> I liked the close box at the end. When I'm looking at pictures, I can
> open them from thumbnails into different tabs, and then start at the
> end, and then close them all in sequence. It works great!
*ROTFLMAO* ... and you can do ALL THAT with just ONE hand ... :-)
SCNR >;->
<g,d&r>
TK
Peter Trudelle
data, or just NG feedback & personal preference (both of which are
notoriously unreliable)? I think most users are conditioned to look
for an X somewhere on the upper right of open objects, although the
placement of this one might not have been optimal. In any case, we
certainly need a one-click means to close tabs.
Peter
Aaron Andersen
> (4) You can now drag a URL to a tab and have it load in that tab.
> Whether or not the tab comes to the front when you drop is based off
> the background loading pref (the same one used when you middle-click a
> link).
> om)
What's the name of that pref? I remember the debate about making one,
but I didn't know it was implemented yet.
daa
clicking both buttons ( chord)
Duane Clark
user_pref("browser.tabs.opentabfor.middleclick", true);
--
My real email is akamail.com@dclark (or something like that).
Garth Wallace
What's the solution for a *one*-button mouse?
DeMoN LaG
news:3BD8BB5A...@hotmail.com, on 25 Oct 2001:
>
> What's the solution for a *one*-button mouse?
Double clicking both buttons ;)
--
ICQ: N/A (temporarily)
AIM: FlyersR1 9
email: de_on-lag@ho_e.co_
_ = m
Peter Trudelle
of most users, and is much more difficult to do than most other UI
gestures. I have a lot of trouble with it myself.
Peter
Dylan Schiemann
--- Garth Wallace <gwa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> daa wrote:
> >
> > barney wrote:
> >
> > > Pratik wrote:
> > >
> > > That's nice, but what if you've only got a
> 2-button mouse? What's the
> > > equivalent to middle click?
> >
buy a new mouse
>
> What's the solution for a *one*-button mouse?
>
buy a new mouse or get a neural comlink :)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
Gervase Markham
> 'x'. It either works or it doesn't work. I'm not suggesting a
> dual-function like you are when comparing to a search/stop
> button.
You mouse over a tab in order to click it to move it to the front. For
whatever reason, you hesitate slightly. You click and Bang! - your tab
has vanished, because the popup X chose that exact moment to appear
under your mouse.
Not good.
Gerv
Jay Garcia
The solution is "buy a PeeCee" .... :-D
Martin Poirier
barney
If only I were co-ordinated enough to hit them both simultaneously...
Neil
> The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated. Looking
> for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only when it
> is the active tab).
How about a [v] menu which duplicates the context menu but opens on
left-click for those with dysmouseia? I'm thinking along the lines of
the [v] on a combo box, or possibly the tree/outliner column picker.
Gilles Durys
> (2) The confusing close box on
> the far right has been eliminated. Looking for ideas for a better
> solution (perhaps an X on the tab only when it is the active tab).
This is how Galeon does it.
For having been using Galeon for a while, I can say that it is easy and
straightforward to use.
David Hyatt
code for CTRL+W that will close the current tab. When you get back down
to one tab, hitting CTRL+W will close the window.
When you go into tabbed mode, the menu item under file changes from
"Close" to "Close Tab", and a new menu item appears underneath it that
says "Close Window". This new menu item is bound to ACCEL+SHIFT+W, so
you can use that to close a window even when you have multiple tabs open.
Try it out and see if this feels intuitive.
Later,
Dave
(hy...@netscape.com)
Hall Stevenson
Make the 'X' only visible when it's the active tab. That
eliminates your concern...
Hall
Gilles Durys
I did not try it yet, but as a pre-impression middle-click for closing a
tab is counter intuitive. Middle-click is, as I use i, for opening in a
new window/tab.
Gilles
Duane Clark
Middle clicking on a tab to close works fine; I like it. But middle
clicking on a link to open in a new tab no longer works for me:-( (yes
I still have the user pref set).
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5+) Gecko/20011026
Build ID: 2001102608
Pratik
Its there in Edit->Preferences->Navigator->Tabbed Browsing
Pratik.
Elik Eizenberg
> I just checked in a slew of tab browsing changes and fixes. Here's a list:
>
> (1) The tabs now flex and shrink down as you add more tabs in order to
> fit within the window. You should not really have any serious overflow
> problems any longer with this solution.
> (2) The confusing close box on the far right has been eliminated.
> Looking for ideas for a better solution (perhaps an X on the tab only
> when it is the active tab).
> (3) The autohide pref is now honored, so you can uncheck it in the
> preferences dialog to keep the tab strip visible all the time.
> (4) You can now drag a URL to a tab and have it load in that tab.
> Whether or not the tab comes to the front when you drop is based off the
> background loading pref (the same one used when you middle-click a link).
> (5) You can now drag a URL to the tab strip and have it open a new tab.
> Again, whether or not the new tab is focused is based off the pref.
> (6) When you open new blank tabs using CTRL+T, the tab will no longer
> waste time animating and changing its text from "Loading..." to
> "(Untitled)". Also, when you open a new blank tab the URL bar will be
> empty instead of displaying "about:blank".
>
> Enjoy!
> Dave
> (hy...@netscape.com)
>
>
What about having the middle button close tabs? Or double-left-click? or
left&right-click together? Easy, fast and you'll never close windows
mistakenly...
Garth Wallace
>
> one button mouses are worthless IMHO...
Macs come with one-button mice. Mozilla is
supposed to be cross-platform, correct?
James Green
> Ok, I just landed code for middle-click closing the tab. I also landed
> code for CTRL+W that will close the current tab.
In just tried this, and it has a very undesirable side-effect: on Linux,
middle-click pastes (and in Moz, that normally means load the page in
the clipboard). Middle-click on a tab does close the tab, but it also
loads whatever is in the clipboard into the newly focused tab. I got
transported to a "Bad Gateway" message since "http://on/" wasn't found :(.
Suggest you back that particular code out before more Linux people start
yelling at you.
jg
Gervase Markham
> supposed to be cross-platform, correct?
If we were to work to the lowest common denominator of all the platforms
we support, Mozilla would suck rather a lot. Even the Mac community
(with OS X) has realised that a single button mouse is dumb, and
3-button wheel mice rock. ;-)
Gerv
Patrick Gallagher
just as well... considering on Windows there's frequently a delay for
the menus to pop up, and on the Mac you have to hold the mouse button to
get the context menu for a set # of seconds)... there's a new Mac mouse
out that has 2 buttons and a wheel - but the 2 buttons do the same
thing. Having use both systems, I'm hardpressed to say one way is
better than the other - although it would make for some rather large
compatibility/portability issues...
Patrick
Esben Mose Hansen
> What's the solution for a *one*-button mouse?
>
Don't those people use modifier keys? Like shift-click... I seem to
remember this from my brief acquintance with a Macintosh....
--
regards, Esben Mose Hansen
www.worldonline.dk/~mesben (danish site)
Justin H.
Have you tried the new optical one-buttons? Apple seriously made up for
the iMac Puck fiasco!
Actually, for people who use both platforms, a good 3 (or 5) button (w/
wheel) mouse reduces the amount of confusion in an average day.
Justin H.
--
Civilization is just a temporary failure of entropy.
-Christine Nelson
Dustin Ratliffe
started using it. I use it all the time now. The background loading
makes a dialup connection much more bearable - I can continue reading
the current page while the secondary page(s) load - fantastic!
My only request is that the tab context menu not get crowded with
power-user menu items.
I'm talking about:
* Close Other Tabs
* Reload Tab
* Reload All Tabs
For 1.0 please lets just have
* New Tab
* Close Tab
For power users, keeping the menu short means they can use it fast
because they don't need to read and analyze each option and don't need
to move the mouse pointer far.
For average users, keeping the menu short makes Mozilla less
intimidating and easier to learn.
Close Other Tabs
----------------
Close Other Tabs will probably cause more annoyances due to accidental
clicking than be of assistance. If the context menu is kept lean and
mean, it will be fast (and safer) to close each tab in rapid
succession.
Reload Tab
----------
I can reload the current tab by either of
* Keyboard: Ctrl+R
* One click on Reload Button
Why would I use two mouse clicks to reload using the tab context menu?
Reload All Tabs
---------------
I really have to stretch my imagination to find a scenario I would use
this. Perhaps a web designer would want to repeatedly reload several
pages to test rendering results as he/she makes updates to a site's
global cascading style sheet. I don't think that is compelling enough.
Dustin
Peter Trudelle
Mozilla suck. Don't all Macs still ship with a one-button mouse? Does
Apple even make a multi-button mouse yet? How can we say we support a
platform if using it *requires* users to purchase third-party hardware?
I think the main thing such support would do is greatly increase the
target user base for Mozilla, since the vast majority of Mac users lack
extra buttons and wheels on their mice.
Peter
Gervase Markham
> I disagree that supporting things like one-button mice would make
> Mozilla suck.
That's not quite what I said. I said that if we catered to the lowest
common denominator, Mozilla would suck - meaning that if we decide to
have five different click-triggered actions (click, double click, right
click, middle click etc.) and that has single button mouse users holding
down Alt-Ctrl-Shift-Bucky, that's their problem, and it shouldn't stop
us :-)
Gerv
Magnus W
news:9a67df96.0110...@posting.google.com:
> Reload All Tabs
> ---------------
> I really have to stretch my imagination to find a scenario I would use
> this. Perhaps a web designer would want to repeatedly reload several
> pages to test rendering results as he/she makes updates to a site's
> global cascading style sheet. I don't think that is compelling enough.
Of course it is! It's a cool feature for some (although scarce) occasions.
Let's keep cool features.
Juan Tamad
> Middle clicking on a tab to close works fine; I like it. But middle
> clicking on a link to open in a new tab no longer works for me:-( (yes
> I still have the user pref set).
It works ok on 2001102808 =)
--
Juan Tamad :)
Neil
>>You mouse over a tab in order to click it to move it to the front. For whatever reason, you hesitate slightly. You click and Bang! - your tab has vanished, because the popup X chose that exact moment to appear under your mouse.
>>
>Make the 'X' only visible when it's the active tab. That eliminates your concern...
>
Accidental double-clicks, anyone?
Thorsten Konetzko
On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:59:27 +0000 Neil <ne...@parkwaycc.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hall Stevenson wrote:
>> Make the 'X' only visible when it's the active tab. That eliminates your concern...
> Accidental double-clicks, anyone?
Hmm ... no, I do like the idea, but that's probably because this would
be the 'Lotus Notes R5' style that I'm used to ...
/tk
Neil
>Reload All Tabs
>---------------
>I really have to stretch my imagination to find a scenario I would use this.
>
Bugzilla goes down from about 10:30 to 11:30 my local time. Any bugzilla
links stay open in tabs until Bugzilla is available, then hey presto!
OK, so it's a bit contrived, I don't know of other sites that are
reliably unreliable :-)
Martin C. Messer
> I just checked in a slew of tab browsing changes and fixes. Here's a list:
Quick question which I couldn't answer looking through the various
posts: while using tabbed browsing, are their keyboard shortcuts for
swithing tabs? Like Alt+Tab but switching within the tabs themselves,
not between windows?
The Opera browser does this with Ctrl+Tab. Pretty useful feature.
Thanks,
Marty
Pratik
> David Hyatt <hy...@netscape.com> wrote in message news:<3BD7E0A0...@netscape.com>...
>
>>I just checked in a slew of tab browsing changes and fixes. Here's a list:
>>
>
> Quick question which I couldn't answer looking through the various
> posts: while using tabbed browsing, are their keyboard shortcuts for
> swithing tabs? Like Alt+Tab but switching within the tabs themselves,
> not between windows?
>
The shortcuts are Ctrl-PgUp, Ctrl-PgDown
Pratik.
Martin C. Messer
Thanks Pratik.
I know this has been asked before, but _is_ there a list of all the
keyboard shortcuts for the various Mozilla components?
Pratik
> I know this has been asked before, but _is_ there a list of all the
> keyboard shortcuts for the various Mozilla components?
>
none that I know of. sorry :-(
Pratik.
Magnus W
news:3BE16E74...@removethis.netscape.net:
Why is that? Standard practice would be to use Ctrl+Tab and Shift+Ctrl+Tab.
Are those shortcuts used for something else?
Jonas Jørgensen
Yes, for cycling through frames. It should be the other way around, IMO.
Pratik
I think the problem was that KDE uses Ctrl-Tab, CTRl-Shift-Tab for
cycling through desktops. Personally, I dont mind any set of keys.
People will learn in due time. Opera uses Ctrl-left arrow/right arrow
key I think.
I wonder if there is a way to customize the keys...
Pratik.
andrew bell
> I just checked in a slew of tab browsing changes and fixes.
Much improved, although I do miss the speed of the X.
One issue: at least under Windows, there's no line at the top of the
window between it and the tabs that aren't the top, unlike every other
tab interface I know of. Thus it's less obvious than usual which is the
selected tab. Is this by intent (for compactness), or could it be fixed?
Andrew Bell