Mustard gas?
John D Salt
In article <5jjfcq$r...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
Jerker Jonsson <jer...@sparta.lu.se.REMOVETHISPART> wrote:
>
>Hello!
>In his book "Kommando Reichsfuhrer Himmler", Sven Hassel mentions Soviet
>[snippety-snip]
>What kind of gas is this?
It's *fictional* gas.
All the best,
John.
--
John D Salt Dept of Comp Sci & IS, | I don't know any greatest treat
Brunel Univ, Uxbridge, Middx UB8 3PH | As sit him in a gay parterre
Disclaimers: I speak only for me. | With madame who is too more sweet
Launcher may train without warning. | Than every roses buttoning there.
Carey Sublette
In article <5jjfcq$r...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, Jerker Jonsson
<jer...@sparta.lu.se.REMOVETHISPART> wrote:
> Hello!
> In his book "Kommando Reichsfuhrer Himmler", Sven Hassel mentions Soviet
> usage of some sort of gas just before an assault. He describes it as a
> thick yellowish fog. When I read it I got the impression that the gas'
> primary usage was as cover for the assaulting troops and that the fact
> that it was poisonous too was secondary. He does not mention anything
> about the gas inflicting skin damage but says that without a mask you
> would start coughing blood after a while.
> What kind of gas is this?
Sounds like screening smoke (breathe enough smoke, you start coughing). In
general chemical agents are selected for their toxicity in small amounts,
and concentrations high enough to be visible at all are rare (only the
drifting gas attacks using chlorine and phosgene used in the static combat
of WWI produce such effects, and it is doubtful anyone would describe
these geenish and white mists as "thick"). Mustard gas vapor is invisible.
Finally - the Soviets did not use chemical weapons in WWII. They had their
hands full producing conventional and using conventional weapons.
Carey Sublette
Drazen Kramaric
Jerker Jonsson wrote:
> I don't think so...
> Sven Hassels books about WWII aren't fictional. He was there. He
> belonged to the 27'th Panzer regiment.
I have read some of his books. I enjoyed in reading but it was often
difficult to follow timeline in his books. In one book "SS General", he
describes his group's escape from Stalingrad pocket. They were led by SS
General Augsburg. I have never heard for that general and I am not aware
of presence of Waffen SS units in the pocket either.
Drax
M.Rapier
In article <5jloqn$l...@portal.gmu.edu>, jer...@sparta.lu.se.REMOVETHISPART
says...
>John D Salt wrote:
>> It's *fictional* gas.
>I don't think so...
>Sven Hassels books about WWII aren't fictional. He was there. He
>belonged to the 27'th Panzer regiment.
Sven Hssel may well have been a member of the Wehrmacht, however how anyone
can believe that his books are anything but fiction is beyond me.
I particularly remember some well known 'historical' activites Sven, Porta and
Co got involved in.
The SS led breakout from Stalingrad - hmm wonder how every other historian of
the Eastern front missed that one.
The flamethrower slaughter of US troops landing on Omaha beach at the
waterline as the 27th Panzer sticks it to the Amis again - again I don't
recollect this incident being reported in any of the other books about
Overlord I've read.
And I'm sure there are many others - this could become quite an amusing
thread.
It could well be that _some_ of the incidents related in his books are real,
but many most certainly aren't, and overall they owe a lot to 'All Quiet on
the Western Front', though with rather more 'Boys Own Action Adventure'
concentration on the pornography of violence.
Leo Kessler churned out a load of even more violent and less well written
imitations.
Cheers.
Martin.
--
Martin Rapier, Database Administrator
Corporate Information & Computing Services.
University of Sheffield Tel 0114 222 1137
http://rhino.shef.ac.uk:3001/mr-home/
-----------------------
To Infinity and Beyond.
Jerker Jonsson
M.Rapier wrote:
> Sven Hssel may well have been a member of the Wehrmacht, however how anyone
> can believe that his books are anything but fiction is beyond me.
Are you saying that his books are _pure_ fiction?
I don't know more about Sven Hassel than what is written about him on
the covers of his books, it's possible that he in fact is making it all
up and that he wasn't there at all. Are there any proofs of Sven Hassels
wehrmacht-service out there, anyone? Is he still alive?
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M.Rapier
In article <5jsu2i$k...@nina.pagesz.net>, jer...@sparta.lu.se.REMOVETHISPART
says...
>M.Rapier wrote:
>> Sven Hssel may well have been a member of the Wehrmacht, however how anyone
>> can believe that his books are anything but fiction is beyond me.
>Are you saying that his books are _pure_ fiction?
Well, as I said a few lines later on, some of the things he wrote about may
have been based on personal experience, but many of them were fictional as
they simply did not happen.
I don't know if he made it _all_ up or not, the books aren't presented as
autobiographical, he has certainly made some of it up.
>I don't know more about Sven Hassel than what is written about him on
>the covers of his books, it's possible that he in fact is making it all
>up and that he wasn't there at all. Are there any proofs of Sven Hassels
>wehrmacht-service out there, anyone? Is he still alive?
Sorry, haven't got a clue.
Tero P. Mustalahti
In article <5k0e93$5...@nina.pagesz.net>,
M.Ra...@sheffield.ac.uk (M.Rapier) writes:
>>I don't know more about Sven Hassel than what is written about him on
>>the covers of his books, it's possible that he in fact is making it all
>>up and that he wasn't there at all. Are there any proofs of Sven Hassels
>>wehrmacht-service out there, anyone? Is he still alive?
>
> Sorry, haven't got a clue.
There was an article about him in a Finnish newspaper a while ago and
also an interview of him. He is alive and lives in Spain, pretty much
isolated from the outside world, almost as a hermit. The article
claimed that he volunteered to serve in the Wehrmacht in the age of 19
(IIRC), but soon started to bitterly regret his own decision. In his
own words "Only an idiot would go to war voluntarily, as I did" (my
translation from Finnish). He also claims that all the central
characters in his his books are real persons and that some of them are
alive even today. He does not claim that all the events are true,
though.
Tero P. Mustalahti
W Hingerty
Regarding Sven Hassell...what are the titles of some of his books. Ive read
a lotta good fictional East Front stories, By HH KIrst. Gunner Asch stuff.
They are quite good, and believable, but they are fiction. Sort of a German
"No Time for Sgts". But Ive never heard of S Hassell.
Ray Marshall
In soc.history.war.world-war-ii W Hingerty <hing...@erols.com> wrote:
: Regarding Sven Hassell...what are the titles of some of his books. Ive read
: a lotta good fictional East Front stories, By HH KIrst. Gunner Asch stuff.
: They are quite good, and believable, but they are fiction. Sort of a German
: "No Time for Sgts". But Ive never heard of S Hassell.
"The Legion of the Damned", Farrar, Strauss & Cudahy, NY, 1957. His
"experiences" as a soldier having been sentenced to a "penal regiment."
One of the best books I have ever read.
Ray Marshall
Minneapolis
Soren Rasmussen
Si 20Cdo wrote:
>
> Having been an avid Sven Hassel fan in my youth i would dearly like to
> know about his wartime service . The 27th Panzer Regt did exist, as part
> of the 19th Pz Div
> but was this his actual unit? and was it a 'penal unit' or Zbv as the
> Germans called them. I doubt this as Pz troops were regarded as somewhat
> elite. In 'The legion of the damned' it mentions that they were assigned
> to an armoured rail unit or Eisenbahnpanzerzuge , which is possible.I
> would love to know the true story and set to rest the many questions of my
> youth.
> Simon Orchard
Sven Hassel did not serve in the 27th Panzer Regt, nor in a penal unit
(and you are quite correct to smell a rat with regards to the
penal/elite question).
The name Sven Hassel is a pseudonym; his real name is (or was) Boerge
Villy Redsted Pedersen, later changed to Boerge Villy Redsted Arbing.
He appeared on the scene in Denmark around 1949/50, claiming to be a war
veteran, and presented a bulky manuscript to an editor. This, with some
assistance from another writer was turned into "De Fordoemtes Legion,"
("Legion of the Damned," in English.
The book was a success, and more followed (all subsequent books were
written by "Hassel/Hazel" himself). What was interesting was that he
claimed (not only on the book jackets, but in actuality) to be writing
autoboigraphically. The books were tranlated into a number of languages,
causing Hassel to become a minor celebrity in Denmark, for being the
first writer to surpass the national icon, Hans Christian Andersen, in
worldwide sales. This was around the mid fifties.
Unfortunately, the publicity called attention to the man himself, and
journalists began investigating. What they found was a somewhat
different picture.
Boerge Villy Redsted Pedersen was a minor criminal in occupied Denmark
during the war. He had attempted to enter the Officers' Academy before
the war, but was rejected. At several instances during the war, he was
caught posing as an officer, usually in a bought or manufactured
uniform.
One instance was especially memorable: A young woman approached a Danish
policeman in Copenhagen (this was before August 1943, while the Germans
allowed the Danes to retain their police), having been terrified by a
uniformed member of the Gestapo, who had attempted to arrest her. The
policeman was naturally dubious, since the Gestapo, being a secret
police, never wore uniforms. When he inquired as to whether this
so-called Gestapo member had shown any ID, the woman answered
affirmatively. When the woman then told him that the name on the paper
(the Ausweiss) was Heinrich Himmler, he told her to get lost, or words
to that effect. A few minutes later, the woman returned, saying that the
man who had tried to arrest her was sitting around the corner in a cafe.
The policeman then arrested Boerge Villy Redsted Pedersen (BVRP), and
handed him over to the Germans. The uniform was one he had manufactured
out of bits and pieces, to look superficially like a SS-uniform,
complete with Iron Crosses of the 1st and 2nd grade. Interestingly
enough, some of Hassel's book jackets carry a picture of him in this
uniform. The Ausweis turned out not to identify BVRP/Hassel as Heinrich
Himmler, but to indicate that it was authorized by the Reichsfuhrer
himself. This was a distinction that did not mollify the Germans, who
sentenced him to a prison sentence of 6 months (IIRC) for that stunt.
He also worked some time as a police informer, apparently being quite
good at it, with a natural penchant for making up stories and identities
on the spot; a talent which serves a man well in that sort of
profession. He then gained employment as an informer with the HIPO, the
HILFSPOLIZEI, or auxiliary police, a force of Danes, employed by the
Germans to combat the Danish Resistance. With the liberation in 1945, he
was sentenced to prison again, on charges of treason. He did not appear
again until his release in 1949, when he changed his name to Boerge
Villy Redsted Arbing. He also posed as a Frenchman named L'Arbin, for a
short while, until he found his true calling as a writer.
As to the content of the books, there is little doubt that most is just
pure fiction. But it is also true that Hassel has spoken with veterans,
and is undoubtedly incorporating bits and pieces of stories, true and
false, told to him. With the first edition of "Likvider Paris" (I am not
familiar with the English title, but it would be akin to "Liquidate
Paris"), Hassel was caught by his editor in flagrant plagiarism, having
copied a passage about the assassination attempt on Hitler directly from
another book. He then had to cite the right author in subsequent
editions (Fabian von Schlabrendorf, unless I am much mistaken).
Readers will note that Hassel kills off all of his comrades in "The
Legion of the Damned," making it necessary to resurrect them in the
following books, only to be killed off at various times (in varying
circumstances) when it suits the author. One might also try to keep
track of Hassel and his friends during the war, but that is a daunting
task, since they are able to appear several places at the same time.
Take June 6, 1944. Depending on which book you read, you will find
Hassel on the Eastern Front, in a hospital in Hamburg, in Italy, and
guarding a prison in Germany, all on the same day! No wonder it took so
long to beat the Germans. ;-)
The above is taken from memory from the book "Hassel" by Erik Haaest,
Copenhagen, 1976. I believe it is only available in Danish. I will dig
it out if anyone want more details.
-----------------
Soren Rasmussen