Crossgen and Culling
David Doty
of poignant to look at El Cazador and ask, "if another issue of this book
were never published, would I be sad?"
Because, with Crossgen now, you never know.
Dave Doty
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Brian Henderson
wrote:
>Just a side note to my post about culling books from my list. It was sort
>of poignant to look at El Cazador and ask, "if another issue of this book
>were never published, would I be sad?"
>
>Because, with Crossgen now, you never know.
Unfortunately, pretty much all the books CrossGen put out that I cared
if they came out... are now gone.
So no, I wouldn't be sad to see the whole company go under right about
now.
Ralf Haring
Just out of spite?
-Ralf
Kevin J. Maroney
>Brian Henderson <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message news:<og35vvs7l5v1heejg...@4ax.com>...
>> So no, I wouldn't be sad to see the whole company go under right about
>> now.
>
>Just out of spite?
He didn't say he'd be happy or actively cheering its demise, just that
it wouldn't sadden him.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com Š 2003 by Kevin J. Maroney
"Love doesn't have a point. Love *is* the point."--Alan Moore
If you are reading this message on the "Comics-N-Such" message boards,
know that it has been copied onto that forum without my permission.
Brian Henderson
>Brian Henderson <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message news:<og35vvs7l5v1heejg...@4ax.com>...
>> So no, I wouldn't be sad to see the whole company go under right about
>> now.
>Just out of spite?
Nope, because they don't produce anything I want to read. Same goes
for 99% of all other comic companies out there. They produce crap,
why should I care if they continue to exist?
Ralf Haring
Because when any mid-to-large company fails it's a loss for the
industry. A greater variation in workplaces and titles published leads
to a healthier industry for readers and workers.
I don't read much TokyoPop or Viz or Humanoids or Oni or Avatar, but I
don't really want to see them go away. Either eventually they'll
publish something I'll like or they don't and their readers will just
continue to enjoy their product. There's a plus for somebody either
way.
If a company is being actively harmful, then that's another matter...
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
Jason Michael
"Ralf Haring" <ra...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:3ff53478...@news.optonline.net...
>>
> If a company is being actively harmful, then that's another matter...
>
>
I'm sure the creative types waiting on their payment from Crossgen feel the
company has been actively harmful.
Jason
Brian Henderson
>Because when any mid-to-large company fails it's a loss for the
>industry. A greater variation in workplaces and titles published leads
>to a healthier industry for readers and workers.
Let's be honest here. CG, for all their big talk and lofty ideals,
was never a mid-to-large company. The comics they produced were never
big sellers. They only had *ONE* comic in the Top-100, *ONE* month in
their entire history. Marc Silvestri's lofty dreams to the contrary,
that makes them pretty small fish with a lot of hype and little
substance. Just like every other business, it doesn't matter what you
can claim, but what you can produce and CrossGen has never been able
to produce the kind of sales to justify a trip to the front of
Previews. Their best selling titles would likely be cancelled at
Marvel or DC as bad sellers.
>I don't read much TokyoPop or Viz or Humanoids or Oni or Avatar, but I
>don't really want to see them go away. Either eventually they'll
>publish something I'll like or they don't and their readers will just
>continue to enjoy their product. There's a plus for somebody either
>way.
I didn't say I wanted them to go away, I said it wouldn't bother me a
bit if they did, and it's true. With very few exceptions, they have
no products which I have any interest in buying. This is just like
eating at McDonalds and not caring if Long John Silver's goes out of
business. If they don't produce what you as a consumer want, why care
if they continue to exist?
In the scheme of things, the comic industry survived just fine without
CrossGen for decades, they'll continue to do so without CrossGen
again.
Jason Fliegel
>Marc Silvestri's lofty dreams to the contrary,
>that makes them pretty small fish with a lot of hype and little
>substance.
I'm pretty sure Marc Silvestri was too busy running Top Cow to have lofty
dreams about Marc Alessi's company.
Jason Fliegel
Que...@aol.com
Ralf Haring
<BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>Let's be honest here. CG, for all their big talk and lofty ideals,
>was never a mid-to-large company.
I think they were as close to a medium sized company as the comics
industry has. They were obviously producing more than any of the very
small publishers and had market shares comparable to Dark Horse,
Dreamwave, or TokyoPop.
>The comics they produced were never big sellers.
>They only had *ONE* comic in the Top-100, *ONE* month in
>their entire history.
You are mistaken.
>Marc Silvestri's lofty dreams to the contrary,
>that makes them pretty small fish with a lot of hype and little
>substance.
Surely just a typo, but it's Mark Alessi. Silvestri owns Top Cow.
>Just like every other business, it doesn't matter what you
>can claim, but what you can produce and CrossGen has never been able
>to produce the kind of sales to justify a trip to the front of
>Previews. Their best selling titles would likely be cancelled at
>Marvel or DC as bad sellers.
As would many Dark Horse and Image titles. Heck, many DC books would
be cancelled at Marvel. The bigger companies need higher sales on
books to justify their existence because they have higher overhead
costs. The smaller the company, the less they need their books to
sell.
>>I don't read much TokyoPop or Viz or Humanoids or Oni or Avatar, but I
>>don't really want to see them go away. Either eventually they'll
>>publish something I'll like or they don't and their readers will just
>>continue to enjoy their product. There's a plus for somebody either
>>way.
>
>I didn't say I wanted them to go away, I said it wouldn't bother me a
>bit if they did, and it's true. With very few exceptions, they have
>no products which I have any interest in buying. This is just like
>eating at McDonalds and not caring if Long John Silver's goes out of
>business. If they don't produce what you as a consumer want, why care
>if they continue to exist?
Because I want the comics industry's working environment to be better
so that it is a desirable field to work in and good creators stay
instead of moving on to greener pastures.
Because I want there to be comics out there for other people to enjoy.
>In the scheme of things, the comic industry survived just fine without
>CrossGen for decades, they'll continue to do so without CrossGen
>again.
I'm not saying it won't survive. I just think they brought some very
good qualities to the table that are now no longer available.
Brian Henderson
I realized I said that after the fact. Oops! Darn similar-sounding
people, too easy to mix up!
Brian Henderson
>I think they were as close to a medium sized company as the comics
>industry has. They were obviously producing more than any of the very
>small publishers and had market shares comparable to Dark Horse,
>Dreamwave, or TokyoPop.
Dark Horse, like Image, DC and Marvel, is one of the 'powerhorses' of
the comics industry, at least according to Diamond. CrossGen needed
to have a consistent 5% of the market to get into the front of
Previews, which they never managed.
>>The comics they produced were never big sellers.
>>They only had *ONE* comic in the Top-100, *ONE* month in
>>their entire history.
>
>You are mistaken.
They hit the 5% mark once, the only time I ever saw Sojourn in the
Top-100. Granted, I could have missed it, but CrossGen, which touted
themselves as one of the big dogs, never managed to perform as well as
Dreamwave, which consistently breaks the Top-100 with 1-2 books per
month.
>As would many Dark Horse and Image titles. Heck, many DC books would
>be cancelled at Marvel. The bigger companies need higher sales on
>books to justify their existence because they have higher overhead
>costs. The smaller the company, the less they need their books to
>sell.
If you want to compete with the big dogs, you certainly need books
that sell. Sure, there are comic companies out there that survive on
sales of 2000 per book or less but there isn't any profit in it in the
long term. We know that Marvel's cancellation threshold is around 18k
books, did CrossGen's entire line sell that many?
>Because I want the comics industry's working environment to be better
>so that it is a desirable field to work in and good creators stay
>instead of moving on to greener pastures.
Unfortunately, the comics market is like Wal-Mart. It's all strictly
lowest-common-denominator stuff. Outside of the big names, it's
pretty difficult to make a living writing/drawing comics at all,
simply because it's such a niche market. 20 years ago, you could
probably take a mid-line writer or artist and make a reasonable living
working just in comics, but I don't know if that's possible today. I
don't think it's surprising that the best-paid name in all of comics
is Rumiko Takahashi and she doesn't even work in this country. Last I
heard, she made about $5 million per year just in Japan but she's also
been very prolific in a country where their 'comics' market is in the
multi-billions.
We just can't get that here.
>Because I want there to be comics out there for other people to enjoy.
I'd be happy just finding comics *I* can enjoy, which is becoming
harder and harder these days. A lot of it is because Marvel and DC,
especially, are following outmoded business models. They survive on
40+ year old characters which can never change appreciably because
those characters need to survive to the next month, and the next, and
the next. Instead of telling a compelling story, the majority of the
comics market is based on keeping a franchise alive. I think that,
more than anything, hurts the American comics market, but it's just
the way American entertainment, from TV shows to comics, have become.
Keep that cash cow mooing so long as it still produces milk.
In Japan, at least until recently, they were very story-biased. They
told stories and then moved on to something else. They didn't keep
beating a dead horse so long as it got ratings and, although they have
started to adopt a more western model over the last decade or so, it's
not nearly as bad as it is here. If anything, I'd like to see Marvel
and DC adopt a similar strategy, give people a good story that is
supported by characters, not having characters that can never die, can
never really be hurt, can never really change, and hundreds of issues
of 'continuity' which isn't.
>I'm not saying it won't survive. I just think they brought some very
>good qualities to the table that are now no longer available.
The reason they are no longer available, at least CrossGen's material,
is because CG made a ton of mistakes, talked big and had nothing to
back it up, etc. They had good ideas, their carry-through just
sucked. They promised the Sigil-verse, yet have now cancelled almost
all of the books. They promised respect for the reader, then got a
bunch of now-defunct licensed books. And as much as I understand that
their books didn't, and still don't sell and it's a business decision,
I feel more than a little screwed over by their crappy endings (oh
yeah, that's all folks, sorry we didn't get a chance to actually END
these stories...).
CrossGen had potential, that's why I started supporting the company.
That potential was largely squandered by piss-poor management and a
whole lot of mistakes. Maybe someone will learn from the mistakes CG
made and come through on the promises of 'something better'.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: If they don't produce what you as a consumer want, why care
: if they continue to exist?
I wasn't too impressed with any of CrossGen's books (or their bravado, for that
matter) either, but they've experimented a lot with format and genre and -- for
a while, at least -- offered creators a real alternative to the usual working
model.
That's something which should be appreciated and applauded by everyone who
enjoys comics, where I'm concerned, even if they don't particularly enjoy
CrossGen's books. Healthy competition results in better working conditions and
better and more diverse product. As a reader, you can only profit from that in
the end, no matter which books you like.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com
"Sometimes this meeting of the loyal jirga is not so moderate, and sometimes it
becomes so hot it is close to burning, and sometimes it is so cold that I must
go home and get something warm to wear."
--Sebaghatullah Mojadeddi, chairman of the loyal jirga, after walking out on,
and subsequently returning to, the council to create a new constitution for
Afghanistan
--
[Please note: This is a Usenet message, originally posted to the
rec.arts.comics.* groups. If you see it in a moderated or censored forum, it
was copied there without my consent.]
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I wasn't too impressed with any of CrossGen's books (or their
> bravado, for that matter) either, but they've experimented a lot with
> format and genre and -- for a while, at least -- offered creators a
> real alternative to the usual working model.
>
> That's something which should be appreciated and applauded by
> everyone who enjoys comics
I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
enjoys comics.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Reviews - Aprendiz,Conversation,Paul Has a Summer Job
Ralf Haring
<BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:04:53 GMT, ra...@duke.edu (Ralf Haring) wrote:
>
>>I think they were as close to a medium sized company as the comics
>>industry has. They were obviously producing more than any of the very
>>small publishers and had market shares comparable to Dark Horse,
>>Dreamwave, or TokyoPop.
>
>Dark Horse, like Image, DC and Marvel, is one of the 'powerhorses' of
>the comics industry, at least according to Diamond. CrossGen needed
>to have a consistent 5% of the market to get into the front of
>Previews, which they never managed.
Then Diamond is slacking because their own figures show that Dark
Horse hasn't had above 5% in a while.
>If you want to compete with the big dogs, you certainly need books
>that sell. Sure, there are comic companies out there that survive on
>sales of 2000 per book or less but there isn't any profit in it in the
>long term. We know that Marvel's cancellation threshold is around 18k
>books, did CrossGen's entire line sell that many?
Yes.
>>Because I want the comics industry's working environment to be better
>>so that it is a desirable field to work in and good creators stay
>>instead of moving on to greener pastures.
>
>Unfortunately, the comics market is like Wal-Mart. It's all strictly
>lowest-common-denominator stuff. Outside of the big names, it's
>pretty difficult to make a living writing/drawing comics at all,
>simply because it's such a niche market. 20 years ago, you could
>probably take a mid-line writer or artist and make a reasonable living
>working just in comics, but I don't know if that's possible today. I
>don't think it's surprising that the best-paid name in all of comics
>is Rumiko Takahashi and she doesn't even work in this country. Last I
>heard, she made about $5 million per year just in Japan but she's also
>been very prolific in a country where their 'comics' market is in the
>multi-billions.
>
>We just can't get that here.
I choose not to be so pessimistic about the US market.
>>Because I want there to be comics out there for other people to enjoy.
>
>I'd be happy just finding comics *I* can enjoy, which is becoming
>harder and harder these days.
Maybe that's it then. I find plenty of comics that I enjoy. My stack
of unread comics grows every month because I just can't find the time
to read all the ones I want.
>>I'm not saying it won't survive. I just think they brought some very
>>good qualities to the table that are now no longer available.
>
>The reason they are no longer available, at least CrossGen's material,
I wasn't necessarily talking about their material. I was talking about
their attitude toward their on-staff creators and thei working studio
environment. But yes, it's a shame that the comics they had that were
aimed at non-traditional markets (like say Meridian) won't be around
anymore.
Brian Henderson
>Then Diamond is slacking because their own figures show that Dark
>Horse hasn't had above 5% in a while.
Probably not, but when the rules were established, the 'big four' were
the only ones that met the requirements. No other company has ever
achieved those requirements since, to my knowledge.
>I choose not to be so pessimistic about the US market.
Unfortunately it's true, simply because the comic market in the US is
so rotten. In Japan, a huge number of people read manga. Here...
hardly anyone reads comics. You're not going to see huge salaries for
such a limited market.
>Maybe that's it then. I find plenty of comics that I enjoy. My stack
>of unread comics grows every month because I just can't find the time
>to read all the ones I want.
When half the comics I read just got cancelled by CrossGen, that's a
problem. My wife's pull list went down 60% because of CrossGen, now
she's shifting her focus to manga.
Brian Henderson
<johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
>unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
>enjoys comics.
Unfortunately, they're hardly the only ones who screw over artists and
writers, a lot of the small companies do it regularly and the artists
and writers don't complain because they're so thankful to be in print
at all.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
: unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
: enjoys comics.
Tsk. Leftist propaganda, everywhere you look.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>
> >I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
> >unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
> >enjoys comics.
>
> Unfortunately, they're hardly the only ones who screw over artists and
> writers, a lot of the small companies do it regularly
What does that have to do with CrossGen doing something wrong? They
never aimed to be a small company.
Ralf Haring
<BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 19:00:20 GMT, ra...@duke.edu (Ralf Haring) wrote:
>
>>I choose not to be so pessimistic about the US market.
>
>Unfortunately it's true, simply because the comic market in the US is
>so rotten. In Japan, a huge number of people read manga. Here...
>hardly anyone reads comics. You're not going to see huge salaries for
>such a limited market.
It's a hope for change. It can be neither true nor false.
Ralf Haring
>
>> I wasn't too impressed with any of CrossGen's books (or their
>> bravado, for that matter) either, but they've experimented a lot with
>> format and genre and -- for a while, at least -- offered creators a
>> real alternative to the usual working model.
>>
>> That's something which should be appreciated and applauded by
>> everyone who enjoys comics
>
>I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
>unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
>enjoys comics.
As immoral as that is, I really can't muster up incredible amounts of
sympathy for people who do business without some kind of contract in
place.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
> >unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
> >enjoys comics.
>
> As immoral as that is, I really can't muster up incredible amounts of
> sympathy for people who do business without some kind of contract in
> place.
If everyone in the biz works that way, and if demanding that will lose
you the job, I can understand why artists would feel that they couldn't
really push.
Regardless, the company has broken numerous verbal contracts and
published art illegally (without having the copyright).
Graeme
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
>
> : I'll agree with that, but by the same token, their exploitation of
> : unpaid artists is something that should be decried by everyone who
> : enjoys comics.
>
> Tsk. Leftist propaganda, everywhere you look.
Yeah. Damn these TPB-loving, manga-reading, bookstore-visiting types
and their fancy ideals :)
Everyone knows that the ruthless exploitation and shafting of creative
types is what made the American comic industry great in the first place.
Graeme
--
http://members.optusnet.com.au/graeme
"I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died." - Steve Wright.
Brian Henderson
<johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> Brian Henderson <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>> <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, they're hardly the only ones who screw over artists and
>> writers, a lot of the small companies do it regularly
>What does that have to do with CrossGen doing something wrong? They
>never aimed to be a small company.
Absolutely nothing, was just pointing out that this seems to be an
industry-wide problem, CrossGen was just the latest and largest
company to screw over their creative talent.
Jack Bohn
>I feel more than a little screwed over by their crappy endings (oh
>yeah, that's all folks, sorry we didn't get a chance to actually END
>these stories...).
Did any have endings? Any "story arcs"? Are the collected
editions a satisfying read in themselves, or just a longer
version of 22-page cliffhangers?
Never did get into them, is there anything I *could*?
--
-Jack
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>Did any have endings? Any "story arcs"? Are the collected
>editions a satisfying read in themselves, or just a longer
>version of 22-page cliffhangers?
None of the titles that CrossGen cancelled had decent endings. It was
like they told the writers "this is the last issue you get, finish all
the storylines and plot threads in 22 pages." Not one single title
did more than just... end and it wasn't until about halfway through
the cycle that they even SAID anything in the comics that it was the
last issue! For the most part, all the long-running plot threads were
simply dropped and ignored because they didn't have the time to tie
them up neatly, or even pretend that they could.
Joe and Colleen
Ralf Haring
<jfer...@twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>I missed what titles have been cancelled, what are they?
cancelled:
Mystic
Meridian
Scion
Sigil
Crux
The First
The Path
Ruse
Solus
still around:
Way of the Rat
Route 666
Sojourn
Brath
El Cazador
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
Abadazad
Lady Death
Negation is being stopped because the same creative team will be doing
the previously announced The War miniseries, except it will be
entitled Negation War. There have been no announcements as to the
title's future after that, though it would seem likely that the team
would be asked to launch a new non-sigil book.
Brian Henderson
<jfer...@twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>I missed what titles have been cancelled, what are they?
Every sigil-verse title except Negation, Sojourn, Way of the Rat and
Route 666. That means that Ruse, Meridian, Crux, Mystic, Scion,
Sigil, Solus, The First and The Path are all history, as well as some
non-sigil-verse titles like Crossovers, etc. Rumors are rampant that
both Negation and Sojourn are both being cancelled, haven't heard on
WOTR and R666 yet.
In their place, CrossGen is adding a couple new titles that simply
don't appeal to me at all (Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Abadazad, El Cazador)
and all of their licenced titles have pulled themselves and gone
elsewhere.
Ralf Haring
<BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>Every sigil-verse title except Negation, Sojourn, Way of the Rat and
>Route 666. That means that Ruse, Meridian, Crux, Mystic, Scion,
>Sigil, Solus, The First and The Path are all history, as well as some
>non-sigil-verse titles like Crossovers, etc. Rumors are rampant that
>both Negation and Sojourn are both being cancelled, haven't heard on
>WOTR and R666 yet.
Sojourn has been the company's highest seller since its inception. It
is *highly* unlikely that it would be cancelled.
Jack Bohn
>On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 06:27:02 -0500, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Did any have endings? Any "story arcs"? Are the collected
>>editions a satisfying read in themselves, or just a longer
>>version of 22-page cliffhangers?
>
>None of the titles that CrossGen cancelled had decent endings. It was
>like they told the writers "this is the last issue you get, finish all
>the storylines and plot threads in 22 pages." Not one single title
>did more than just... end
>For the most part, all the long-running plot threads were
>simply dropped and ignored because they didn't have the time to tie
>them up neatly, or even pretend that they could.
So, is anything worth picking up at firesale prices? I'm seeing
Crossgen titles released as "Comics on DVDs" about 7 per. (which
means they are wasting more space than Marvel's old 4 issues of
comics on CD) at a price that's less than a hardcopy collection.
--
-Jack
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: Sojourn has been the company's highest seller since its inception. It
: is *highly* unlikely that it would be cancelled.
As long as the company's around, anyway, for what that's worth.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com
Warren Ellis is a chicken.
Brian Henderson
>Sojourn has been the company's highest seller since its inception. It
>is *highly* unlikely that it would be cancelled.
With all the other stupid crap CG has done lately, not much would
surprise me.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>So, is anything worth picking up at firesale prices? I'm seeing
>Crossgen titles released as "Comics on DVDs" about 7 per. (which
>means they are wasting more space than Marvel's old 4 issues of
>comics on CD) at a price that's less than a hardcopy collection.
Sure, if you want to get back issues. Most of CG's titles were well
done, just don't expect the stories to be wrapped up neatly in the
end.
Ralf Haring
>
> So, is anything worth picking up at firesale prices? I'm seeing
> Crossgen titles released as "Comics on DVDs" about 7 per. (which
> means they are wasting more space than Marvel's old 4 issues of
> comics on CD) at a price that's less than a hardcopy collection.
The Comics on DVD are interesting, but I wouldn't really recommend
them over the comics collections. I picked up two of the dvds as
curios and to see what they were like. The voice acting was not as bad
as I would have imagined and the stories moved at a steady enough
clip.
Regardless of their status as cancelled series, I would still
recommend looking at Meridian, Ruse, The Path, and Scion depending on
your sensibilities. Meridian was a light fantasy book with a younger
female protagonist. Scion was more traditional medieval fantasy with
some scifi thrown in with two warring royal houses. Ruse was the
mystery-ish book. The Path was the samurai-ish book.
Of their current series, Negation, Way of the Rat, and Route 666 are
the best, imo. Negation is a breakneck action book that provides
dozens of interesting characters and locales. A bunch of people from
different planets were abducted and are now escaping their captivity
and are on the run from a galaxy-spanning empire. Way of the Rat is a
martial arts humor book about an ineffective thief and his talking
monkey mentor. Route 666 is set in a 1950s US setting and has an 18ish
girl on the run because she is the only one who can see the demons who
impersonate people all around us.
-Ralf
Ralf Haring
They weren't making money and had to cancel some titles. How is that
stupid?
Jeez, you'd think they'd killed your dog with the amount of vitriol
you espouse. They're just comics and the world won't end because some
went away.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >With all the other stupid crap CG has done lately, not much would
> >surprise me.
>
> They weren't making money and had to cancel some titles. How is that
> stupid?
It's not. But sending out a press release announcing you're cancelling a
series even earlier than you planned and putting the last script online
for your fans is a bit odd, and calling your former freelancers who are
just trying to get the money they're owed "blackmailers" is darn stupid.
Ralf Haring
<johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> ra...@duke.edu (Ralf Haring) wrote:
>> <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >With all the other stupid crap CG has done lately, not much would
>> >surprise me.
>>
>> They weren't making money and had to cancel some titles. How is that
>> stupid?
>
>It's not. But sending out a press release announcing you're cancelling a
>series even earlier than you planned and putting the last script online
>for your fans is a bit odd,
Odd, yes, but to me it just means that their financial straits were
much more serious than anyone had imagined. Sigil was their
worst-selling title other than The First, which had already been
cancelled.
I thought I had read somewhere that the final issue was actually going
to be produced because a foreign licensor was going to front the
money, but I can't find where I might have seen that info.
>and calling your former freelancers who are
>just trying to get the money they're owed "blackmailers" is darn stupid.
Yup, surprisingly abysmal PR.
Brian Henderson
<johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> ra...@duke.edu (Ralf Haring) wrote:
>> They weren't making money and had to cancel some titles. How is that
>> stupid?
>It's not. But sending out a press release announcing you're cancelling a
>series even earlier than you planned and putting the last script online
>for your fans is a bit odd, and calling your former freelancers who are
>just trying to get the money they're owed "blackmailers" is darn stupid.
Good points. It isn't the fact that they cancelled titles that
weren't selling that was stupid, it was all the money they wasted, all
the ridiculous promises they made and their attempt to play with the
big dogs when they didn't have any rational way to do so. They had no
titles that sold well enough to give them 'big dog' status, they were
just a little Chihuahua growling at the larger dogs and thinking they
qualified as well.
And now they're seeing that all their grand schemes and big words
didn't mean a damn thing.
Erik Veit
I was buying, and *enjoying* all the CG comics. About a year ago, it was
clear that CG would publish ALL of their titles as TPBs. They even claimed it
as their model.
So I stopped buying individual issues at that time, and started ordering the TPBs.
Westfield just told me that about 20 of the TPBs that I had on order were just
canceled by the publisher.
I understand when publisher go out of business (Ultraverse anyone?). Anyway...
Here's the rub: In retrospect, I would have bought the individual issues had
I known they were going to fold. Now my choices are to let it all go, or do
ebay crawls for all the back issues. I still want to read whatever they
published.
Dammit.
zombie
--
Erik Veit ------------------------------------------------------ Dublin, CA
"To be a Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the union, a passport to
any foreign country, and a benediction from the almighty God." --anonymous