vitamin d
David Sanders
clear up psoraisis,He said it can also cause nasty cramps .I already get
nasty back of leg muscle night cramps.So he s sending me for blood
tests.He also administers low band uv at 30 t0 50 a throw but admits as
soon as you stop it can come back with a vengeance`.He says Amevive has
only helped 30per cent.and side effects can be horrendous thwe same goes
for Tigeson .Cyclosporin and methotrexate.WEhat we need is a common fund
we can pump money and raise money for psoraisis reserch because most of
the pots of tar dav onex lin o tr ex erex are utter crap .
the only thing we get out of trying them all is a at the end a dirty big
bill from the derm who continues to perscribe the same stuff that they
did up to 30 years ago.mostly the same people with the same problems are
writing to this newgroup with the same uneventful treatments and we
are going no where . We need help but all we are getting is
confusion.Will vitamin d work?????What does work from what i can see we
need a cheap succesful standard ointment and gell plus tablet and
treatment at govt level and free tratment o\n all heath insurance
public hospitals etc so some of the wicked sharleton people derms
ontment and vaccine manufacturers dont contin ue to rip us all off.We
need to do some thing about it what do you all think or are we going to
have repeat repitition of all treatments at horendous costs for the rest
of our lives. wAKE UP DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ON THIS GROUP JOINTLY NOT
SINGULARLY.write joint letters to all derms doctors chemists hospitals
and goverment health authorities showing them how we are being ripped
off apot of ointment in this country with tar and 5%nerisone cream is 90
dollars .I t probably costs 5dollars to make ??plus a visit to the derm
fo 150 dollars to get a scrip for it.We certainly are being swindled of
our money.It should be govt fundedand monitored they would save millions
that could be put into new cures and reserch .not the present legal
quakery. Lets do some thing about it wake up now and get a life
together as a team..Davidiooooooooooooo
JXStern
wrote:
>I went to the derm today ...
And got a whole slew of misinformation, it sure sounds like.
If you are reporting accurately what you were told, you'd best get a
new doctor PDQ.
>...and he told me that vitamin D in big doses can
>clear up psoraisis,
It can also hurt or kill you in those doses. Some of the damage it
can do IS NOT REVERSIBLE.
>He said it can also cause nasty cramps .I already get
>nasty back of leg muscle night cramps.So he s sending me for blood
>tests.
What kind of dose are you on? How long have you been on it?
Are you off it until these "tests" are done?
If you have really been taking megadose vitamin D, you MUST check with
another doctor immediately. And, if nz is anything like the US, you
might want to check with a lawyer, too.
>He also administers low band uv at 30 t0 50 a throw but admits as
>soon as you stop it can come back with a vengeance`.
It comes back, but not with any special "vengance", only steroids and
possibly one or two other drugs give you "rebound", where it comes
back much worse than before very suddenly when you discontinue.
>He says Amevive has only helped 30per cent.
>and side effects can be horrendous
Amevive does not seem to help everyone, and it does not seem to clear
everyone it helps, this much is true. I think the tests claim that
50% got 75% clearing, even if that required two courses of the drug
and/or additional therapy like narrow-band UV. I have heard virtually
no cases of bad side effects from Amevive. In this, it is different
from Enbrel and Remicade, which cause allergic reactions in some and
allow for secondary infections, especially tuberculosis.
>thwe same goes
>for Tigeson .Cyclosporin and methotrexate.
That is no secret. However, used carefully under competent medical
supervision, each of these (or combinations) can also produce
excellent results. That's what medicine is supposed to be all about.
...
>quakery. Lets do some thing about it wake up now and get a life
>together as a team..Davidiooooooooooooo
Well I don't disagree with the general rant about prescription costs
and all, only it takes more than writing letters for better treatments
to be found.
J.
Randall
> I went to the derm today and he told me that vitamin D in big doses can
> clear up psoraisis,He said it can also cause nasty cramps
OK. So vitamin D isn't a cure is it?
You like it cause its cheaP? Hanging out in the sun is
free and your only wasting time to get it.
Or you can find very expensive gooP with D3 or some such
stuff for your P.
There is something else for P i believe that works for
me. Yes i do also follow a diet to get the best results.
> Lets do some thing about it wake up now and get a life
> together as a team..Davidiooooooooooooo
good idea!
randall...
DaveW
[snip]
>WEhat we need is a common fund
>we can pump money and raise money for psoraisis reserch because most of
>the pots of tar dav onex lin o tr ex erex are utter crap .
>wAKE UP DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ON THIS GROUP JOINTLY NOT
>SINGULARLY.
That's why some of us give to the National Psoriasis Foundation and other
organizations like it.
>write joint letters to all derms doctors chemists hospitals
>and goverment health authorities showing them how we are being ripped
>off apot of ointment in this country with tar and 5%nerisone cream is 90
>dollars .I t probably costs 5dollars to make ??plus a visit to the derm
>fo 150 dollars to get a scrip for it.
What's the conversion rate between NZ dollars and US dollars?
>We certainly are being swindled of
>our money.It should be govt fundedand monitored they would save millions
>that could be put into new cures and reserch .
Countries which have socialized medicine pay for it with higher taxes,
unfortunately. There is no free lunch.
- Dave W.
http://psorsite.com/
Paul Morrison
JXStern wrote:
>>
> It [vit D] can also hurt or kill you in those doses. Some of the damage it
> can do IS NOT REVERSIBLE.
>
>
I have been taking 2000 IU since before Christmas - is this is a safe
dose? I have no idea whether an IU is a lot or a little :-)
JXStern
Me neither. Let's Google ...
http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/v_d.html
>RDA for adult males: 200 IU
...
>No extra benefit is obtained from taking more than 400 IU daily
>except for therapeutic reasons; then, dosages can range from 1,500
>to 2,800 IU daily
It's hard to find a retail vitamin with more than 200-400 IU. How is
it you are taking 2000? Is it working?
I suppose I'm probably getting more than any minimum myself. I get a
relative lot of sun, so that's my RDA right there. And I'm sure I've
been getting a couple of times the RDA from my diet as well. No
actual supplements, except what they put into milk or other foods.
There is a time element to when it gets dangerous, as vitamin D is fat
soluable. I don't know the dose*time figures. Maybe some further
googling would help, or you could ask your local expert, doctor,
nutritionist, pharmacist, vitamin store sales droid, whatever.
My *impression* is that you don't want to go a year on 2000 IU unless
your diet is lacking and you never get any sun.
http://www.erowid.org/smarts/vitamins/vitamins_basics1.shtml
Large doses of Vitamin D (daily doses of 50,000 IUs, 125 times the
U.S. RDA) can result in increased calcium absorption from the
intestinal tract, and possibly also to increased calcium resorption
from the bones, leading to elevated levels of calcium in the blood.
This can lead to abnormal calcium deposition in soft tissues, such as
the heart and lungs, reducing their ability to function.
http://www.fastweightlossnews.com/D.pdf
SAFETY ISSUES
Vitamin D has the potential for toxicity and should not be consumed in
dosages over four times the RDA. Symptoms of vitamin D overdose
include increased frequency of urination, loss of appetite, nausea,
vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, fatigue, muscular weakness,
dizziness, calcification of the soft tissues of
the heart, blood vessels, and lungs, and in severe cases, confusion,
high blood pressure, kidney failure, and coma (Kirschmann, 1996).
Vitamin D toxicity develops over time, and there is a wide variation
among individuals in their tolerance to overdose. Infants and children
are more susceptible to vitamin D overdose. Parents should monitor
vitamin D intake in an infant or child. Excess consumption of
fortified foods can possible lead to vitamin D toxicity. Pregnant
women should also avoid large doses of vitamin D.
Sunlight exposure does not cause vitamin D toxicity because the body
has an efficient feedback system and reduces the production of vitamin
D with increased sunlight exposure (Somer, 1995)
J.
DaveW
>http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/v_d.html
[snip]
>>No extra benefit is obtained from taking more than 400 IU daily
>>except for therapeutic reasons; then, dosages can range from 1,500
>>to 2,800 IU daily
Therapeutic for what? That's on the page you cited, too:
"Vitamin D's clinical application is in the treatment of
rickets and osteomalacia."
Not psoriasis, in other words.
Randall
> On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 15:33:47 GMT, Paul Morrison
> <paul.m...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >> It [vit D] can also hurt or kill you in those doses. Some of the damage it
> >> can do IS NOT REVERSIBLE.
> >
> >I have been taking 2000 IU since before Christmas - is this is a safe
> >dose? I have no idea whether an IU is a lot or a little :-)
>
> Me neither. Let's Google ...
OK,
Lets google whats in our own group first.
First, if it was just a vitamin D thing then taking some
would clear us all up. And we know that isn't the case.
And if it was just a highly acidic diet thing, then
eating fruits and veggies only would clear us.
Which BTW seems to work in a pinch for most of us
as a low arachidonic acid takes the fuel away
from the fire (not enough omega 6 and AA in the
cellular membranes to get inflammed from Cox2's).
So, eating a high acid diet (paleodiet) without
fruits and veggies will leach to much calcium
out of the body. And we know that there is
a problem with Ca++ in psoriasis.
Another problem is the time of year and the
amount of sunlight. As the days darken
and the kidneys (renals) take over the job
of supplying the hormones to make
vitamin D3 that the skin isn't due to the
latitude your in etc. Hence we have have
our creams that supply it, ultravate etc.
Just eating to much sugary foods in the dark
of winter may toss the renals off kilter and
deny us the D3 we require to stay clear.
So read the above link and remember you are what
you eat. And in my view, what you don't excrete.
That being the LPS in the p equation.
AS far as these links below go, taking any one
supplement simply only confuses your body more
and may unbalence it to the detriment of your
good health.
I know, as my use of many foods/supplements to
control my p has left me enervated, the same as EL
down south and i'm not on any biologics at all.
And there are many times when i have to go off
my diets to feel good again.
There you have it. A high PRAL will mess you uP
in more wheys then one.
randall
Paul Morrison
JXStern wrote:
> It's hard to find a retail vitamin with more than 200-400 IU. How is
> it you are taking 2000?
I found it right in my local pharmacy - it's made by Jamieson, here in
Canada. http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com. Says 1000 IU right on the
label - directions for adults: take 1 tablet daily. Could Canadian IUs
be different from US? I think I'll cut back to 1 tablet, though, just
in case...
>Is it working?
Hard to say - my P. doesn't change much, in either direction. Except
for my recent vacation in the tropics, when it cleared up almost
totally. Of course, it's slowly coming back now - and I'm still on
vacation, so it doesn't appear to be stress-related.
Paul Morrison
Randall wrote:
> Lets google whats in our own group first.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=randall+vitamin+D+renal+group:alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=df7e2c67.0211051334.2e427c32%40posting.google.com&rnum=2
>
Do we know how AA, omega oils and P are related? E.g. taking in lots of
omega-3, less meat and dairy, more fruit and veg should help...? Sorry,
there's so much material out there, and I was trained as an
anthropolgist not a chemist, unfortunately.
JXStern
<paul.m...@rogers.com> wrote:
>Do we know how AA, omega oils and P are related? E.g. taking in lots of
>omega-3, less meat and dairy, more fruit and veg should help...? Sorry,
> there's so much material out there, and I was trained as an
>anthropolgist not a chemist, unfortunately.
You can google endless messages from Randall, me, and others on these
topics from the past few years, as we've all been self-educating,
thanks in large part to the web.
In a nutshell, AA is omega-6 leads to worsening of inflammation,
occurs in red meat. Omega-3 needs to be balanced in the diet to
reduce inflammation, occurs in wild fish, very much less in farmed
fish (for that matter, even red meat that's grass-fed rather than
grain-fed is more balanced in omega-3/6). Fruits and veggies have
little omega's, but seeds have lots -- flaxseed oil is balanced 3/6.
Just to complicate things, evening primrose oil has some particular
omega-6's which I (and some others) have found very helpful at
reducing symptoms, if not necessarily reducing overall inflammation.
So it's not QUITE as simple as measuring the mass quantities of 3/6.
Also, various other foods and drugs affect the metabolism of raw
essential fatty acids (EFAs, that's -3, -6, -9, and whatever) into
inflammatory products. Onions, garlic, aspirin, tea, steroids, and
such can block either pro- or anti- inflammatory pathways.
J.
DaveW
>Do we know how AA, omega oils and P are related? E.g. taking in lots of
>omega-3, less meat and dairy, more fruit and veg should help...? Sorry,
> there's so much material out there, and I was trained as an
>anthropolgist not a chemist, unfortunately.
Taking in lots of omega-3 oils by itself (without otherwise changing your diet)
_might_ help psoriasis. They act as an anti-inflamatory. They'd help more if
you could get them via an I.V. line, however, instead of eating them.
Randall
Hi,
An anthropologist huh? Have you checked out the Kogi indians (Tairona)
at all? Do a google search (web) for some nice pictures/links etc.
Also next time your down south can you look around and see if
you can get some Calaguala? Its a fern that grows down there.
It got mentioned once or twice in the group and i'm still
reading about it. I'll post an abstract if you like.
Here is a link for fats and lipids that is in layman speak,
http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/tripping.html
Since the paleodiet (aka atkins etc) is somewhat in vogue
i feel its safe to share. :)
As to how p and AA relate is simple.
Phospholipase 2->AA->eicosinoids/prostaglandins->leukotrienes
And then we flare uP.
Thanks to our multifactorial P DNA, but we can fight it.
I still feel that its the LPS that causes the high levels
of NO (nitric oxide) making the whole inflammation equation
so d*mn perplexing and insidious.
I will post some current abstracts that track my train
of thought if you want.
Now i have to run, Joe Millionaire is making his choice. lol
randall...
Randall
>
> Now i have to run, Joe Millionaire is making his choice. lol
Shades of Imelda Marcos, he didn't pick the foot fetishist.
She may have been to sophisticated for him!
Joe got the girl most likely to accePt him
and a million $$$ to split with her.
So fox will continue the successful saga. Will the bucks
keep them to-gether or split them aPart?
The following week they should give them psoriasis
and see if that drives them apart.
To stay on topic, here is some curious Vitamin D info,
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000B845E-BFA9-1CEA-93F6809EC5880000
Vitamin D helps to detox lithocholic acid. Could this be a P link or
what?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=00022FA4-167D-1E48-967D809EC588EEDF
E. coli opens calcium ion channel.
"Giovanni M. Pitari of Thomas Jefferson University and his colleagues
tested a toxin produced by E. coli on human colon cancer cells. They
found that cell growth slowed shortly after exposure to the toxin.
Specifically, the researchers determined that the toxin suppressed a
previously unrecognized signaling pathway within the cells."
Now this may help someone figure out the exact effects
of something in the guts.
Once all the pathways are known the real culPrits should
show their rotten little heads.
And my gut instincts say its LPS in the guts. NOw are those
E. coli screwing us too? Or will they lead to clear salvation?
Give me half a million bucks and the girl gets tossed
and i go bounty hunting for microscoPic P game.
I find ten severe psoriatics and do it to them my whey.
Hey, what a reality show! Has it been done?
>
> randall...
JXStern
>Hey, what a reality show! Has it been done?
Almost.
J.
http://enquirer.com/editions/2003/02/16/loc_heimlich16.html
Scientists linked to Heimlich investigated
Experiment infects AIDS patients in China with malaria
By Robert Anglen
The Cincinnati Enquirer
Two prominent Los Angeles AIDS researchers are being investigated for
taking part in a controversial medical experiment with Cincinnati
physician Henry Heimlich to infect AIDS patients in China with
malaria.
...
Randall
Hi,
This has bugged me forever. Why can't we eat it and
avoid the PGE(2) AA/omega-6 cascades to inflammations?
And since psoriasis is a multifactorial genetic
disease, what triggers the immune system once the
antigens/superantigens of strep cool down?
Do we digest them fine one day, get strep and then
can't process them as efficiently the next?
Is it gradual with some skewing of the Th1/Th2 over
time?
I grabbed uP some pubmed abstracts (some previously posted
to the psoriasis newsgroup, aka-P NG) to try and make
heads and tails out of it.
Here goes,
Are we doomed if we don't stop pancreatitis from sugars/glucose
skewing the digestion of AA or should we psoriatics just IV it?
Or is this as much a fiction as the belief in the leaky gut was
at one point in time?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12405646&dopt=Abstract
Darn, i forgot what these next three are.
They are relevant i hoPe.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8387219&dopt=Abstract
To much NO from calmodulin and glutamate activation? (Straight from
the most beautiful city on the BAY)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10630682&dopt=Abstract
Modern molecular biology has revealed vast numbers of large and
complex proteins and genes that regulate body function. By contrast,
discoveries over the past ten years indicate that crucial features of
neuronal communication, blood vessel modulation and immune response
are mediated by a remarkably simple chemical, nitric oxide (NO).
Endogenous NO is generated from arginine by a family of three distinct
calmodulin- dependent NO synthase (NOS) enzymes. NOS from endothelial
cells (eNOS) and neurons (nNOS) are both constitutively expressed
enzymes, whose activities are stimulated by increases in intracellular
calcium. Immune functions for NO are mediated by a calcium-independent
inducible NOS (iNOS). Expression of iNOS protein requires
transcriptional activation, which is mediated by specific combinations
of cytokines. (snip) Overactivation of glutamate receptors associated
with cerebral ischemia and other excitotoxic processes results in
massive release of NO. As a free radical, NO is inherently reactive
and mediates cellular toxicity by damaging critical metabolic enzymes
and by reacting with superoxide to form an even more potent oxidant,
peroxynitrite.
(NO antioxidant/vitamin is gonna cut the mustard against the
peroxynitrite
monster! You need Brassica juncea, aka- chinese mustard to do that
job. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12358454&dopt=Abstract
)
(If your an olive oil and vinegar on your salad type, then a
tablespoon of this mustard may be a smart thing to do!)
Evetsm may need six tablespoons to counteract all that
vitamin C. But will dijon suffice? lol
In summary, the study demonstrates that mRNA for the inducible form of
NOS is over-expressed in psoriatic lesions. The cause of this may be
the local presence of inflammatory cytokines. These findings imply
that iNOS may play an important part in local regulation of NO
synthesis in psoriasis and other inflammatory dermatoses.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8733364&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12216415&dopt=Abstract
Measurement of NO release rates at the skin surface are 100 times
greater from psoriatic lesions than normal skin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12102657&dopt=Abstract
We have recently demonstrated peroxynitrite production, DNA breakage
and PARP activation in a murine model of contact hypersensitivity, and
propose that the peroxynitrite-PARP route represents a common pathway
in the pathomechanism of inflammatory skin diseases. Here we briefly
review the role of NO in skin pathology and focus on the possible
roles played by peroxynitrite and PARP in various skin diseases.
Of course or curse everything in the psoriasis world is made
much worse due to alcohol. And the uptake of endotoxin/LPS due to
drinking it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10804879&dopt=Abstract
Sorry, i ran out time. And require a snickers for some brain
fuel.
And something tells me that this line of inquiry isn't over.
How about an IV for the brain hooked uP to our computers?
ONOO, the nano computers are coming!
randall
David Sanders
Randall
>im glad i started the vitamin d subject the question is should i or
shouldnt i take
> > it i havnt had any yet?????
Hi,
Glad your still here. After rereading your first post i've
come to the conclusion that taking some vitamin D will
most likely be as helpful for you as it was for me.
NOt much.
I do a whole host of things designed to effect some
aspect of the pathways that are known to be
involved psoriasis.
Most of them are low tech compared to the new biologics
currently becoming available.
Yet the cumulative effects of all of them seem to
be comparable to those achieved by the new breed
of meds.
Yes, i do try to get some sunshine every now and then.
Is it for vitamin D only? Maybe the heat shock proteins
are an area that needs to be investigated. A google
search of our group would produce only meager info.
I'll go search pubmed and see what i can find that
may help explain whats downstream of radiation besides
vitamin D.
As stated previously in this thread, just taking some
vitamin D doesn't produce the results we all pray for.
Paul Morrison is taking a hefty load and i don't
hear any cheers coming from him yet.
And if it did help we'd all know in short order.
Putting the active analogs in some creamy goop does
help some psoriasis folks. BUT not you as stated
in your post.
So its safe to conclude that taking it systemic wide in the
form of a pill or enriched product like milk isn't
gonna be much better. UNLESS the homeopathic effect
works for your specific condition. lol + <G>
Since most of the P treatments haven't satisfied you, i
would suggest going outside the box of that which
you've already tried. Which leaves quite a bit within
the medical paradigm and all the things in the alternative
camp. A minefield of mostly worthless crap. Suffice it to
say i've been there and tried those (alternatives) and only found
one thing to have a positive effect worth talking about.
Either google the psoriasis newgroup by going to www.deja.com
and entering www.thewholewhey.com or go there directly.
Following this program of implanting good intestinal flora
has been the best alternative program i've found.
You do have to follow a very strict diet after the
implantation of the good flora and during this time
my psoriasis nearly vanished.
Going back to a more normal diet and the psoriasis
also attempts to go on the offensive. The psoriatics
response to that is to modify the diet and take
two tablespoons of proflora whey powder a day to
continue the maintenance of the beneficial ratio of
good to bad flora in the large intestine.
Good luck with your search.
randall
>
> --
Randall
Hey!
I almost choked on a heifer after reading this!
I shouldn't have sauteed him so quickly.
If i had used some rosemary, thyme, parsley and sage
then evetsm could come to the scarborough affair also.
He's gonna need to bring his own antioxidants. lol
This thread went from P to leProsy to HIV/Heimlich.
And then i figured, could i toP it?
And make it relevent to psoriasis in the process.
Plus link it to food and psoriasis.
How about a little history and dictators and psoriasis?
And since we've been doing the highly suspect homeopathy
recently, i'd need some real fakery pePPered with magic.
Here goes,
I hoPe this is spicy enough for us all, even evetsm.
****
Mans quest for $$$$ via some sleazy attorney goes
sour!
What is the eye in the Grapefruit juices connections to psoriasis?
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0214eyeball13-ON.html
Was it really an eyeball or some slimy mold trick reminiscent of
Aleister Crowley (Eye in the Triangle) fame?
And whats the lexus-nexus connections to psoriasis and magic and
hitler and LRon Hubbard? The science-tology of psoriasis?
Big L-Ron says,
"Hubbard suggests that a number of problems besetting the human race
may be traced to former lives. Smoking tobacco may
result from smokers dramatizing volcanoes seen in previous lives.
Psoriasis may result from the digestive fluids of an animal that
ate you. Vegetarianism may be the consequence of being eaten by
animals. Fear of falling can be traced to being a sloth falling
out of trees."
And here is another snip from the link to the above,
"Scientology claims that Hubbard infiltrated Jack Parson’s black
magick group (which had connections to Aleister Crowley’s
Ordo Templi Orientis) undercover as an agent of Naval Intelligence.
Contradicting such a stealth operation is Hubbard’s
unlawful bigamous marriage to Sara Northrup, a member of Parson’s
black magick group. No undercover agent would risk
discovery with a bigamous marriage. It is a matter of record that
Hubbard married Northrup a year previous to his legal divorce
from his first wife, Margaret Grubb Hubbard. More incriminating than
that is Hubbard’s statement from one of his lectures where
he refers to Aleister Crowley as his friend: “The late Aleister
Crowley, my very good friend” (Conditions of Space/Time/Energy,
1952, PDC lecture 18, as quoted by Atack, op. cit., 89). In letters
from the Parsons collection quoted by Miller, Corydon, and
Atack, there is scant reference to Hubbard. But nothing can be found
showing direct communication or friendship between
Crowley and Hubbard. This appears to be an imaginative embellishment
on Hubbard’s part to inflate his biography."
The two above quotes can be found here,
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Aleister+crowley+psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=37f2e3e7.8261168%40localhost&rnum=2
How does psoriasis link to Hitler?
"As Deitrich Eckart lay dying of psoriasis of the liver in December of
1923 he claimed the honor of having first introduced Hitler to the
true powers of the occult, by teaching him how to communicate with the
Ascended Masters. Eckart bragged: "Follow Hitler! He will dance but it
is I who have called the tune! I have initiated him into the Secret
Doctrine, opened his centers in vision and given him the means to
communicate with the powers. Do not mourn for me: I shall have
influenced history more than any other German." Truly it can be said
that Eckart had called the tune, and secretly lead the Nazi party
until his death."
The above quote is from:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Aleister+crowley+psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3ce31c4c.2055201503%40news.cis.dfn.de&rnum=1
But, but, what are the real science connections of graPefruit and
psoriasis?
Back to Germany!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12594625&dopt=Abstract
[Role of nuclear receptors in hepatic and intestinal drug transport]
[Article in German]
Kullak-Ublick GA, Jung D, Meier PJ.
Abteilung fur Klinische Pharmakologie und Toxikologie und.
Summary. Major determinants of the bioavailability of drugs are the
degree of intestinal absorption and hepatic first-pass effect. Drugs
need to overcome several membrane barriers before reaching the
systemic circulation. These include the luminal (facing the intestine)
and basolateral (facing the blood) membrane of intestinal epithelial
cells. Substances that undergo first-pass metabolism are taken up
across the basolateral (sinusoidal) hepatocyte membrane,
biotransformed within hepatocytes and excreted across the canalicular
(apical) membrane into bile. Each of these membrane barriers possesses
an array of specialized transport proteins that mediate substrate
transport across the membrane. One of the best characterized
transporters is the P-glycoprotein MDR1 (multidrug resistance gene
product, gene symbol ABCB1). MDR1 is expressed at the apical surface
of enterocytes where it mediates the efflux of xenobiotics into the
intestinal lumen before these can access the portal circulation. An
increase in MDR1 expression reduces the bioavailability of drugs that
are MDR1 substrates. Examples include digoxin, cyclosporin A and
paclitaxel. Numerous xenobiotics such as rifampin, phenobarbital,
statins and St. John's wort induce MDR1 transcriptionally. The MDR1
gene binds the nuclear receptor PXR (pregnane X receptor) that induces
gene transcription following activation by these ligands. Other PXR
regulated genes include cytochrome P450 3A4, the digoxin transporter
Oatp2 (Slc21a5) of the basolateral and the xenobiotic efflux pump MRP2
(ABCC2) of the canalicular hepatocyte membrane. PXR is thus an
important "xenosensor" that mediates drug induced activation of the
detoxifying transport and enzyme systems in liver and intestine.
PMID: 12594625 [PubMed - in process]
Another abstract showing that inflammation itself upregulates
cytokines,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11288108&dopt=Abstract
Exposure to proinflammatory cytokines and macrophages decreased the
mRNA expression of CYP3A4 and increased the expression of MDR1 mRNA in
the Caco-2 cells.
You know JStern we have had this conversation before, but it
was about St. Johns Wort and the possible opposite effect to
grapefruit juice. I googled P-glycoproteins and found
a few good posts on the topic. Ed Anderson had an excellent post
from 1998 on Fish oils and digestive enzymes etc.
Here is the post from you and i.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=P+glycoprotein+group:alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=df7e2c67.0201241719.6397f858%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
Any psoriasis deja vu yet?
Any foods to combat psoriasis to overcome or succumb to more
psoriasis?
Eat your broccoli every day as it may run thru our poor Psoriasis
systems to fast,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11988104&dopt=Abstract
Sulphoraphane (SF), a naturally occurring isothiocyanate, is a potent
anticarcinogen in animal experiments. The mechanism of action of
sulphoraphane includes induction of Phase 2 detoxification enzymes,
inhibition of carcinogen-activating Phase 1 enzymes, induction of
apoptosis and cell cycle arrest, and anti-inflammation
Is pepper (piperine) the spice of life skewing your digestion of drugs
and foods? Is it good or bad? Both? And when?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12130727&dopt=Abstract
Preliminary data indicate that piperine, a major component of black
pepper, inhibits drug-metabolizing enzymes in rodents and increases
plasma concentrations of several drugs, including P-glycoprotein
substrates (phenytoin and rifampin) in humans.
(snip) In summary, we showed that piperine inhibits both the drug
transporter P-glycoprotein and the major drug-metabolizing enzyme
CYP3A4. Because both proteins are expressed in enterocytes and
hepatocytes and contribute to a major extent to first-pass elimination
of many drugs, our data indicate that dietary piperine could affect
plasma concentrations of P-glycoprotein and CYP3A4 substrates in
humans, in particular if these drugs are administered orally.
I even got a hit on JSterns Xoma post, brought to the P ng by DAvid,
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=P+glycoprotein+group:alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=1SrF9.5546%24Kt2.296006862%40newssvr13.news.prodigy.com&rnum=7
"Circulating LPS is bound by a
glycoprotein serum factor, LBP, which facilitates binding
of LPS to its principal cellular receptor, the CD14 molecule
(Ulevitch). The importance of this interaction is demon-
strated by experiments in which preventing LPS-LBP bind-
ing to monocytes blocks the activity of endotoxin
(Remick). Binding of LPS-LBP to CD14 induces mono-
cytes to produce and secrete a myriad of pro- and anti-
inflammatory cytokines, including interleukins (IL-1, IL-6,
IL-8, IL-10), macrophage migration-inhibitory factor, and
tumor necrosis factor (TNF) (Rietschel, Remick, Ulevitch).
While numerous other humoral mediators are induced by
LPS."
This link (above) is one of the top ten posts to this newsgroup
of all time, IMO. I can't thank david enough! As i'm nearly inept at
the
computer and i don't know how he took it off some server, after
i thought that it was unavailable due to the fact that xoma
redid their web site and no longer had a link to the original
pdf link. Once again thanks david. Its the little things!
Least but not last, i need to thank JStern!
If it wasn't his googling i'd never get off on the
tangents i find myself on. Life is a circle.
I just wish we could remove the points that
include psoriasis from it.
Oh WELL, i hoPe the circle is closed on the eye in the graPefruit
juice!
I did eat some recently and as expected got a few spots.
At least science doesn't lie in this case.
And JStern if you read all the posts on LPS you may
agree that its the only culprit left on the table
after all the meat and mashed potatoes are gone.
Sure i add a little to much spice at times but
LPS is the only thing that fully explains
almost everything in regards to psoriasis.
And as far as this diagnosis is concerned maybe,
"Credo Quia Absurdum" NOt too.
LPS is the sine qua non of psoriasis!
And if you read the xoma post that you posted,
you would understand why the rest of the medical
world hasn't come around to this conclusion yet.
I can only thank you for taking the time to find
it and make it available to the rest of us.
randall... well maybe you need the basket case of p genes also!
>
> ...
JXStern
>But, but, what are the real science connections of graPefruit and
>psoriasis?
>
>[Role of nuclear receptors in hepatic and intestinal drug transport]
I cannot draw any conclusions from this.
>Oh WELL, i hoPe the circle is closed on the eye in the graPefruit
>juice!
>
>I did eat some recently and as expected got a few spots.
>
>At least science doesn't lie in this case.
>
>And JStern if you read all the posts on LPS you may
>agree that its the only culprit left on the table
>after all the meat and mashed potatoes are gone.
I already got the spots, but I've found that drinking some grapefruit
juice makes them itch much less. Not zero, but 50%-70% less, and I'll
take that. Seems to make me much less sensitive to foods that
otherwise cause extra inflammation. Well, thanks for the data point,
even if it disconfirms my results. I'll post this up as a separate
message at some point, so we're not burried below vitamin D and
leprosy and whatnot.
As for the LPS, yes LPS, but all of our very own body-produced cells
are made of LPS just like bacteria are made of LPS, and the theory
that psoriasis is an AUTO-immune condition asserts that it is our
immune system attacking our normal and uninfected cells that is
psoriasis. This could *easily* be aggravated or triggered by
exogenous bacterial LPS, there might even be some people in whom
psoriasis is entirely a reaction to foreign LPS. But the various odd
properties of psoriasis don't really lend themselves to the hypothesis
that it is mostly or entirely a reaction to external infections,
foods, or moods. Though, y'never know until you know, and even then,
you can be wrong, and even then, your mileage may vary.
J.
Randall
> On 22 Feb 2003 20:46:06 -0800, ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:
> >But, but, what are the real science connections of graPefruit and
> >psoriasis?
> >
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12594625&dopt=Abstract
> >[Role of nuclear receptors in hepatic and intestinal drug transport]
> ...
>
> I cannot draw any conclusions from this.
Cyp3a4 from P-450 cytochrome gets downregulated.
Your liver has two sets of enzymes used for detoxification.
Phase I P450 and Phase II conjugation enzymes.
If grapefruit juice downregulates the first one,
more of a drug like MTX will get in, which is
neither good or bad, but can be both or one or the other.
Nevertheless phase I is important to make the bad stuff
water soluble, so phase II get blow them out.
What seems to happen for myself, conditions being ripe
is more superoxides taxing glutathione peroxidase (GPx).
Which is quite axiomatic as most of us, psoriatics
have this condition. You may be the exception to the rule.
Would you like, i find an abstract on this point?
Then again you respond well to the GLA, so i found this
tidbit for you,
>Repression of cellular anaplerosis as the hypothesized mechanism
of>gamma-linolenic acid-induced toxicity to tumor cells.>>Nwankwo
JO.>>Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of
Iowa, IA, USA.>joseph-...@uiowa.edu>>In in vitro cultures, the
cell is virtually isolated and can no longer rely>on>mechanisms for
physiological regulation of substrate availability found in>tissues.
More emphasis is laid on utilization of preponderant substrate in
a>proposed reciprocal relationship between glycolysis and free fatty
acid (FFA)>oxidation for energy. Supraphysiological concentrations of
gamma-linolenic>acid>and some other polyunsaturated fatty acids
(PUFAs) therefore suppress>glycolysis but also inhibit FFA oxidation
initiated through a cytochrome>P450-mediated epoxidation of PUFA to
inhibit fatty acid synthase (FAS)>activity. FAS inhibition accumulates
malonyl CoA which inhibits carnitine>palmitoyl transferase I and
prevents FFA oxidation. The cell is starved of>energy and anabolic
intermediates, leading to decreased proliferation or>death>for tumor
cells. Tumor cells are more vulnerable to this induced toxicity due>to
possession of specific phenotypes of elevated expression for FAS
and>pyruvate kinase, type M2, both factors inducing tumor cell
apoptosis on>inhibition. Copyright 2001 Harcourt Publishers
Ltd.>>PMID: 11388772 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]>>****
******
If you can dig something outa that be my guest.
>
> >Oh WELL, i hoPe the circle is closed on the eye in the graPefruit
> >juice!
I for one liked this post, tying hitler to those
mytics and quacks was sheer randallism at its flakiest!
> >
> >I did eat some recently and as expected got a few spots.
I still have a few and will enjoy them, spots be damned.
> >
> >At least science doesn't lie in this case.
> >
> >And JStern if you read all the posts on LPS you may
> >agree that its the only culprit left on the table
> >after all the meat and mashed potatoes are gone.
>
> I already got the spots, but I've found that drinking some grapefruit
> juice makes them itch much less. Not zero, but 50%-70% less, and I'll
> take that.
I don't itch at all unless i eat my forbidden foods.
Like egg yolks and pork or bacon etc.
> Seems to make me much less sensitive to foods that
> otherwise cause extra inflammation. Well, thanks for the data point,
> even if it disconfirms my results. I'll post this up as a separate
> message at some point, so we're not burried below vitamin D and
> leprosy and whatnot.
Well the circle will be squared eventually in this group.
>
> As for the LPS, yes LPS, but all of our very own body-produced cells
> are made of LPS just like bacteria are made of LPS, and the theory
> that psoriasis is an AUTO-immune condition asserts that it is our
> immune system attacking our normal and uninfected cells that is
> psoriasis.
Look, lps doesn't culture positive or behave nicely
when your gut is permeable.
Here have a ball,
http://freespace.virgin.net/r.barclay/edtxsch1.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/r.barclay/endoceia.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/r.barclay/endocbn1.htm
> This could *easily* be aggravated or triggered by
> exogenous bacterial LPS, there might even be some people in whom
> psoriasis is entirely a reaction to foreign LPS.
Yar down under breathed in to much epoxy resins i recall.
The condition seems to fit the endogenous profile better
for the majority of us i'd aver.
> But the various odd
> properties of psoriasis don't really lend themselves to the hypothesis
> that it is mostly or entirely a reaction to external infections,
> foods, or moods. Though, y'never know until you know, and even then,
> you can be wrong, and even then, your mileage may vary.
Yes, but i hate being wrong.
So my mood says,
the food we ate feeds the bacteria thats innate
or acquired and it's their brood that sheds
their coats and act so rude and hijacks the vehicle
we call skin cells and drives them straight to hell.
Please recall that i've posted an abstract
that showed a direct correlation with LPS
and severity. You may have missed it
randall
>
> J.
ranh...@aol.com
And now comes the, what time of year were you born in,
to determine the effects of vitamin D in the P
inflammation equations.
Makes sense as i was born in the least optimistic time for sunlight
to perk uP some vitamin D on my hide.
What year did they start fortifying dairy with it as i wasn't breast
fed either? Or did i miss all the good pathways to block P?
Nevertheless, by age six i was screwed and headed down the P pike.
Almost enough angst to drive one to the sPike. :(
But with biologicals that sPike sPells salvation, i suPPose!
randall... on the quest for vitamin D, i C!
ranh...@aol.com
And now comes the, what time of year were you born in,