PI in the Matrix Reloaded
netgirrl
something regarding the irrational number Pi. I was wondering if
anyone has any thoughts on this: When Neo first goes to look for the
Oracle (she isn't there), right before he enters the door to her
apartment, the Greek letter Pi is written in graffiti on the right
wall to the side of the door. Later on, the Key Maker states that Neo
will have exactly 314 seconds to get through the door (314 being the
first three digits of PI). Additionally, when Neo is chatting with
the architect, he says "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an
unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix." Pi is
generated by the constant "remainder" (when dividing the circumference
of a circle by its diameter.) PI is irrational, i.e. non-repeating,
non terminating. Isn't this the same as what has supposedly occurred
with the anomaly: namely that a Neo is constantly re-generated, and
everything starts all over again, with no end in sight? Let me know
what you think!
KalElFan
The spoilerish Time Magazine article that came out a week before
Reloaded, written by one of the Richards I can't remember which, also
mentioned Pi. I was personally very interested in that because of a
wannabe sci-fi franchise called Sci-Fi Pi that I conceived back in
February of 1999, even before the first Matrix came out. (The first
one snuck up on people. If I'd even heard of it back then I didn't know
much if anything about it, perhaps that it was a virtual reality type thing
which had been done before in lots of movies.)
Anyway, the Sci-Fi Pi premise is the struggle between the forces of
Ultimate Good (God, though there would be enough scope here that
it needn't be interpreted in the Christian or any monotheistic sense)
and the forces of Ultimate Evil (the Devil, with the same qualifier as
above).
Sci-Fi Pi takes place primarily in two fictional universes called Pi
Prime and the Sisterverse, which along with Our Universe (God's
Ultimate Creation, and the only one with completely free will),
reflect the number before the decimal point in 3.14159...
The remainder of Pi, the infinite series after the decimal point,
represent the infinite number of fictional universes in what I
called the Pi Continuum. The top portion of the Pi Continuum
contains shared fiction, followed by everyone's personal heaven
and hell. Soon after Creation, the Devil was banished to the
lower regions of the Pi Continuum, which collectively represent
Hell.
Just as a nod to what I personally believed were the greatest
shared fiction, or at least SF-style fiction because again Sci-Fi Pi
is conceived as an SF story and wannabe franchise, I defined the
First Pi Pentad corresponding to the "14159" respectively. Those
are:
Pi-1 (i.e., the 1): Greek Mythology
Pi-2: (i.e., the 4) The Superman (and by extension) DC Multiverse
Pi-3: (i.e., the 1) Star Wars
Pi-4: (i.e., the 5) Star Trek
Pi-5: (i.e., the 9) X-Files (actually a hybrid/multiverse that includes its
prior influences, e.g., Kolchak which Chris Carter said influenced
him, and possibly Twilight Zone and Outer Limits though those
could end up with separate designations -- I left Pi-6 and up open).
I've only been participating in one other thread before your post
drew this response. The other thread is the one started by Johnny
Newsreader with "ending discussion..." in the thread title, running
almost 200 posts now. In my first post and one later in that thread,
I only half-joked that the Matrix Trilogy might get Pi-6 if Revolutions
seals it as the next great SF universe (or multiverse).
But, yes, I will be watching, with some personal interest specifically,
to see what, if anything comes of the Pi angle.
--
Anthony Michael Walsh
KalE...@scifipi.com
Check out http://www.moviescorecard.com
KalElFan
[correcting myself here]
> Just as a nod to what I personally believed were the greatest
> shared fiction, or at least SF-style fiction because again Sci-Fi Pi
> is conceived as an SF story and wannabe franchise, I defined the
> First Pi Pentad corresponding to the "14159" respectively. Those
> are:
>
> Pi-1 (i.e., the 1): Greek Mythology
> Pi-2: (i.e., the 4) The Superman (and by extension) DC Multiverse
> Pi-3: (i.e., the 1) Star Wars
> Pi-4: (i.e., the 5) Star Trek
> Pi-5: (i.e., the 9) X-Files (actually a hybrid/multiverse that includes its
> prior influences, e.g., Kolchak which Chris Carter said influenced
> him, and possibly Twilight Zone and Outer Limits though those
> could end up with separate designations -- I left Pi-6 and up open).
Pi-3 is Star Trek, Pi-4 Star Wars. The first five are in chronological
order, Star Trek originating in the 60s and Star Wars in the 70s.
Derek Janssen
To paraphrase the immortal words of Edmund Blackadder:
You mean they WRITE it?--I thought they just got drunk, stuck on a pair
of silly sunglasses, and trusted to luck. : )
Derek Janssen (...."Macbeth"!)
dja...@rcn.com
Mpoconnor7
(1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - 1/11 ...to infinity). Just for fun one day at
work I accessed the mainframe computer and wrote a little loop program for
computing Pi just to see how quickly (how many iterations) it could compute Pi.
I started it on Monday morning, and by Friday afternoon it had run over 360
million iterations; it was adding one divided by 360 million to the number.
>
>Pi-1 (i.e., the 1): Greek Mythology
>Pi-2: (i.e., the 4) The Superman (and by extension) DC Multiverse
>Pi-3: (i.e., the 1) Star Wars
>Pi-4: (i.e., the 5) Star Trek
>Pi-5: (i.e., the 9) X-Files (actually a hybrid/multiverse that includes its
> prior influences, e.g., Kolchak which Chris Carter said influenced
> him, and possibly Twilight Zone and Outer Limits though those
> could end up with separate designations -- I left Pi-6 and up open).
Does the Lord of the Rings fit into this? I really don't consider Greek
Mythology to be akin to Sci-Fi; Greek Mythology was a precursor to LOTR, which
isn't Sci-Fi but more fantasy. LOTR is an alternate world or universe, much
like Star Wars or many of the alternate worlds within Star Trek.
And I think it's pretty clear that LOTR and the Matix are the new franchises a
la Star Wars and Star Trek; I really believe if the third Matrix movie is a
smash also that they will continue the film series in some form, maybe a few
years down the line. One possible way is to make a movie about the life of one
of the previous Neo's, or the events in the past which led to the creation of
the Matrix; the Wacheski (?sp) brothers may not be directing the project, but
there will be too much money to be made for them not to dig a little deeper
into the world of the Matrix and maybe take it in a different direction with a
new cast.
I also think we'll see more of Tolkien's works adapted to the big screen,
although they won't be by Peter Jackson.
Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man
"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
Jay G
"Mpoconnor7" <mpoco...@aol.comnojunk> wrote ...
> I really believe if the third Matrix movie is a
> smash also that they will continue the film series in some form, maybe a
few
> years down the line. One possible way is to make a movie about the life
of one
> of the previous Neo's, or the events in the past which led to the creation
of
> the Matrix
The events leading up to the creation of the Matrix are covered
in the anime shorts "The Second Renaissance Parts 1 & 2."
These shorts will be on the soon to be released Animatrix
DVD. Or you can view them here:
http://www.intothematrix.com
Now, that's not to say that they might not go back and film
a live action version, but it seems much less likely.
-Jay
QV
> non terminating. Isn't this the same as what has supposedly occurred
> with the anomaly: namely that a Neo is constantly re-generated, and
> everything starts all over again, with no end in sight? Let me know
> what you think!
Just curious... is an irrational number like PI still irrational if
expressed in other numbering systems (eg hexidecimal, base-9, etc.)?
Jay G
"QV" <q...@fakeaddress1265.com> wrote
> Just curious... is an irrational number like PI still irrational if
> expressed in other numbering systems (eg hexidecimal, base-9, etc.)?
Yes.
-Jay
KalElFan
> Does the Lord of the Rings fit into this? I really don't consider Greek
> Mythology to be akin to Sci-Fi.
For purposes of the Pi Continuum, SF can mean speculative fiction, so
fantasy as well. Obviously Greek Mythology wasn't SF at the time it
was developed, but it has been the subject of much SF (many incarnations
of Hercules alone for example, movies and TV, live-action and animated),
and it's influenced many SF stories including The Matrix and, I take your
point, LOTR.
LOTR would certainly be up there in the Pi Continuum, especially after
the movie series. One of the things I've been contemplating doing is turning
the number assignments beyond Pi-5 (or Pi-10 or whatever number) to
a third party organization or process.
Mpoconnor7
>> non terminating. Isn't this the same as what has supposedly occurred
>> with the anomaly: namely that a Neo is constantly re-generated, and
>> everything starts all over again, with no end in sight? Let me know
>> what you think!
>
>Just curious... is an irrational number like PI still irrational if
>expressed in other numbering systems (eg hexidecimal, base-9, etc.)?
In the book Contact, this is how Dr Arroway was able to prove that she went on
the trip in the Machine. The alien she met told her that there was a suprise
hidden within Pi which gave proof of a grand design to the universe. I think
she was using base-11 and deep within Pi she found a sequence of numbers which
produced a perfect circle.
KalElFan
> In the book Contact, this is how Dr Arroway was able to prove
> that she went on the trip in the Machine. The alien she met told
> her that there was a suprise hidden within Pi which gave proof
> of a grand design to the universe. I think she was using base-11
> and deep within Pi she found a sequence of numbers which
> produced a perfect circle.
This was interesting so I just did some research on it to find out
more. I'd seen the movie but didn't remember it from there. What
you're referring to was apparently in the book only, which is consistent
with that first sentence of yours I've quoted above.
When you wrote "proof of a grand design to the universe" it suggested
God. Sagan was a firm non-believer, at least agnostic, and so that made
this even more curious. One of his common arguments to believers was
"Why not save a step?" -- accept that the universe is the way that we
understand it from science, instead of having to go beyond that level
of understanding to the idea of a Creator. So why would Sagan have
his character apparently wanting to take that hypothetical extra step,
or even seek it, in a science fiction novel where it's hardly necessary?
Anyway, apparently the Dr. Arroway character is an agnostic in the
book (one site said she was portrayed as an atheist in the movie; I
recall her being a non-believer but not clearly an atheist). One site
suggested that perhaps Sagan was asking himself what would prove
the existence of God to him, and so he came up with the fiction of
a coded message in a number like Pi. My first reaction on reading
that, and the description (Dr. Arroway finds a circle as you say) is
that Sagan might actually have been intending to reinforce agnosticism
with a fictional "proof of God" that was fallacious -- he's using what
amounts to "circular" reasoning, pun intended perhaps on his part.
Pi has that infinite series of decimals that never repeat. If that infinite
series behaves like a random series, then you'll get any message you
want if you look deep enough into it. At least that was intuitively my
first reaction when I read your post. Every letter in this paragraph
has a corresponding ASCII code. Buried deep in Pi somewhere,
you'll find a string of numbers that represent the sequential ASCII
code for this paragraph, indicating the startling truth some of you
already knew -- that I'm the God of Usenet. :-) <--- Yes, even
the ASCII code for this smiley will be included. In fact look deep
enough and you'll find this entire post.
Anyway, basically a few clicks on this confirmed that what I've
said above is probably true. There are sites on the web that I
knew had Pi to the tens of thousands of digits, and I knew that
it had been calculated into the hundreds of millions. Apparently
the record is actually 500 billion digits or thereabouts, and some
mathematicians have used that to indicate (but not prove) that
pi has "normality" or that randomness property. Apparently,
Sagan knew this or also saw it coming, so he had a character
in the book say to Dr. Arroway "the surprise is not that you
found this message, but that you found it so early in pi" or some
such. (Note as well that there is no such message early in pi.
It was just fiction. One site was trying to use this to suggest
Sagan had actually found something and was admitting to the
existence of God. Insert ironic joke here that the deceased
Sagan is probably up there having a good laugh at that now.)
fish...@conservatory.com
QV <q...@fakeaddress1265.com> wrote:
>Just curious... is an irrational number like PI still irrational if
>expressed in other numbering systems (eg hexidecimal, base-9, etc.)?
Yes. The representation has no influence on the transcendental nature
of the number. There are ways to express irrational numbers precisely,
such as sqrt(2) or e^x, but that does not make them any more rational.
--
fish...@conservatory.com
Mpoconnor7 <mpoco...@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
>In the book Contact, this is how Dr Arroway was able to prove that she went on
>the trip in the Machine. The alien she met told her that there was a suprise
>hidden within Pi which gave proof of a grand design to the universe. I think
>she was using base-11 and deep within Pi she found a sequence of numbers which
>produced a perfect circle.
Of course, anyone who understands precalculus mathematics should
easily see the fallacy of that "proof".
--