Making Telephone "hot"?
Awesome1
"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
activated? How could one tell?
--
Old Quote; "Necessity is the plea for every infringment of human
liberty. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves. "
New Quote; "For the children, is the plea for every infringment of
human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves."
E. Vigilance 1998
Steve Spence
would have to be made to do on-hook monitoring. talk to an electronics
engineer if you suspect your phones have been tampered with.
Awesome1 wrote in message ...
> I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
>"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
>going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
>and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
>if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
>or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
>activated? How could one tell?
<snip>
edh...@bellsouth.net
fire...@keeplooking.net (Awesome1) wrote:
> I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
> "hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
> going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
> and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
> if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
> or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
> activated? How could one tell?
Awesome1,
If you take apart a home style telephone and understand basic electronics,
my opinion is this is impossible.
When the phone handset is placed on the cradle, it moves a physical switch.
The physical switch disrupts the circuit and stops the function of the phone.
An electronic signal from outside the phone from "the powers that be"
would still have to connect the circuit that was broken by the physical
switch. This clearly can not be done with an outside signal.
My opinion is no.
Of course, with a scanner it is possible to intercept your cordless
phone(if it's old style) or your old style cell phone(non-digital).
This only works if your phone is turned on, or off the hook, and
you are actually talking on it. "A friend" has easily intercepted
cell phone and cordless phone conversations using inexpensive store bought
scanners and radio gear. I never use my cordless phone when discussing
sensitive or financial matters.
Also, if you study NSA(U.S. National Security Agency) programs, you learn they
have computer programs that scan fax, and voice transmissions over commercial
phone lines and certain radio frequencies for key phrases or words. If such
phrases are identified by an NSA computer, your entire conversation could be
studied in detail. The US has recipricol agreements with Britain to
exchange useful electronic intercept data. That's why our military and
government use the STU (secure telephones) and shielded computers to prevent
interception of emissions from their computers.
You should read Covert Action Quarterly and similar web sites. It's
fascinating stuff. Also read a book called "The Puzzle Palace" about NSA. A
friend in Florida worked a Korean listening station while he was in Air
Force. An older Atlanta friend, now an IBM programmer, worked Electronic
intercept missions in S.E. Asia while in the Air Force. Most of the NSA
intercept work is done against foreign embassies, foreign military, foreign
gov. and foreign businesses.
Regards,
Ed Hill,
Atlanta
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Bill Marcy
wrote:
> I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
>"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
>going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
>and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
>if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
>or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
>activated? How could one tell?
It is called an infintiy transmitter, no clicking can be heard, there
would be a dial tone on your end (not to the listener). One can't
tell.
Louis Boyd
> normal telephones disconnect the mic and speaker when on-hook. special mods
> would have to be made to do on-hook monitoring. talk to an electronics
> engineer if you suspect your phones have been tampered with.
>
> Awesome1 wrote in message ...
> > I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
> >"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
> >going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
> >and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
> >if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
> >or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
> >activated? How could one tell?
It's relatively simple to add two .01 uf 200 volt capacitors (about the size
of grains
of corn) from the >earphone< connection to the line. This will allow allow
the earpiece
on most phones to act as a sound powered mike and send the signal down the
line.
It's aso illegal to do without explicit court orders which allow such
monitoring.
Of course, that doesn't mean that it isn't sometimes done without such orders.
If done carefully it would not be noticed of you open the set. Cost about
$1. You would hear
nothing unusual and it won't affect the normal operation of the phone. The
added capacitance
on the line would not be noticed by telephone company tests, although with
"before and after"
measurements it could be detected. An amplifier at a crossbox within a few
hundred yards of
the phone would allow conversations near the phone to be monitered while on or
off hook.
Small radio transmitters can also be placed in phones or nearly anywhere
else in a room or
for that matter even on the outside wall of a room with batteries which will
last for months.
Again these will allow monitoring at a range of hundreds of yards. If
someone is determined to
monitor you, you'll need a full screened room with no wiring through the
walls. It must be opaque
at all electromagnetic wavelengths from "audio" to ultraviolet, and be
acousticly dead to prevent
sound vibration on the outside walls. An audio random noise generator in the
roof will help
too. It's much easier just to keep your mouth shut.
Lou Boyd
edh...@bellsouth.net
wpm...@nycap.rr.com (Bill Marcy) wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:00:18 -0400, fire...@keeplooking.net (Awesome1)
> wrote:
>
> >"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
> >going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
> >and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
> >if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
> >or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
> >activated? How could one tell?
>
> would be a dial tone on your end (not to the listener). One can't
> tell.
Note that you have to get into the target building and plant the
bug inside the phone.
This is from Jolly Roger hacking web site:
http://www.apathetic.org/cookbook/032.txt
There is also an exotic type of wired tap known
as the 'Infinity Transmitter' or 'Harmonica Bug'. In order to hook
one of these, it must be installed inside the phone. When someone
calls the tapped phone & *before* it rings,blows a whistle over
the line, the transmitter picks up the phone via a relay. The mike
on the phone is activated so that the caller can hear all of the
conversations in the room. There is a sweep tone test at
415/BUG-1111 which can be used to detect one of these taps. If one
of these is on your line & the test # sends the correct tone, you
will hear a click.
You can buy plans to build your own at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/QuasarElectronics/SurvProd.htm
But, tapping other peoples phones could result in prison time.
Ben Jorgensen
> on the phone is activated so that the caller can hear all of the
> conversations in the room. There is a sweep tone test at
> 415/BUG-1111 which can be used to detect one of these taps. If one
> of these is on your line & the test # sends the correct tone, you
> will hear a click.
>
Is this a phone #?
--
The above represent my _personal_ opinions not those of anyone else unless
they have been quoted.
I am on a SPAM restricted diet. Change .net to .edu to reply by email
JonquilJan
> going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
> and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
> if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
> or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
> activated? How could one tell?
>
Can you say boredom?
JonquilJan
Patton Turner
>In article <35eecb39...@news.nycap.rr.com>,
> wpm...@nycap.rr.com (Bill Marcy) wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:00:18 -0400, fire...@keeplooking.net (Awesome1)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
>> >"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
>> >going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
>> >and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
>> >if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
>> >or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
>> >activated? How could one tell?
>>
>> It is called an infintiy transmitter, no clicking can be heard, there
>> would be a dial tone on your end (not to the listener). One can't
>> tell.
>Note that you have to get into the target building and plant the
>bug inside the phone.
>This is from Jolly Roger hacking web site:
>http://www.apathetic.org/cookbook/032.txt
>There is also an exotic type of wired tap known
>as the 'Infinity Transmitter' or 'Harmonica Bug'. In order to hook
>one of these, it must be installed inside the phone. When someone
>calls the tapped phone & *before* it rings,blows a whistle over
>the line, the transmitter picks up the phone via a relay. The mike
>on the phone is activated so that the caller can hear all of the
>conversations in the room. There is a sweep tone test at
>415/BUG-1111 which can be used to detect one of these taps. If one
>of these is on your line & the test # sends the correct tone, you
>will hear a click.
Infinity transmitters only worked before I was born when there was a
cap on some on electronic central offices that supplied "ringback" to
the caller to let him know the phone was ringing. This worked because
the ringing signal was full of harmonics. Long before the
electromechanical switches were removed, the ring generator was
replaced with a unit generating a more or less pure 20Hz signal and
the caps were removed in favor of audable ring.
The caps were necessary to provide a way of turning the phone bug on
and off. The caps allowed a weak path for a tone to be passed before
the phone rang. This tone activated the bug and allowed to caller to
monitor conversations.
The modern version would require a phone that is turned on or off by
radio signal, or the phone must answer the line itself to monitor for
the activation tone. In the latter case, it would be noticed by any
callers to the suspect, as well as preventing the suspect from getting
any incomming calls on that line.
Extra pairs in the phone could be used for a more conventionl bug.
There is also a bug/feature in 1A2 key systems, that could be
exploited under limited conditions. To prevent this a special KSU
pack is used if a 1A2 is to be installed in secure areas.
Finally somebody proved it was possable, under extreme circumstances,
to exploit the capactance of the switch hook contacts in a telephone,
allowing use of a unmodified, on hook phone as a bug. Of course,
thousands of dollars of equipiment must be installed with in 20' or so
of the phone. Again, there is a workarround, low pass filters on the
phone line. These filters are required under TEMPEST specs for any
phone line in a crypto vault.
Telecom history 101
Pat
George A. Gleason
99% of the preceding commentary is either seriously out of date or simply
incorrect. (Speaking from 15+ years as a switching systems technician.)
Telephone set modifications: These were used when telephone instruments
were standard models provided by the telcos (i.e. Western Electric 500/2500
sets, Automatic Electric type 80, etc.). Today's "consumer electronics"-
grade phones come in too many varieties to allow for reliable field
modification. As well, the electronic transmission networks in current
generation phone sets typically require a minimum voltage/current before the
transducers (transmitter and receiver) can become active. These points
effectively do away with the "hookswitch bypass" types of surveillance
devices.
Harmonica bugs & infinity transmitters: The guy who commented on the
electromechanical switching systems almost had it right and then missed by a
mile. The facts: electromechanical central office switches (step by step,
panel, and crossbar) would establish a metallic connection between calling
and called lines, and apply ringing voltage to the called line; the ringing
voltage would be 20Hz (or otherwise on party lines, that's another topic)
with superimposed audible ringback tone. Any audio signal injected into the
line at the called end could be heard by the caller, and vice versa (this
was also the principle behind the "black box" toll fraud device).
Therefore, a device could be installed on a target line which would respond
to a caller injecting a trigger frequency, and go off-hook to enable audio
surveillance.
However: Stored-program-controlled (SPC) central office switches do not
establish a metallic connection between calling and called lines until the
called line has gone off-hook. The called line receives a straight 20Hz
ringing signal; the calling party receives a synthesised audible ringback
tone; these are not even synchronised. There is no way to inject an audio
signal at one end and have it received at the other end until the called
party has gone off hook: therefore no way to trigger a remote listening
device without the called line ringing first. In point of fact it's not
even correct to speak of "metallic connections" any more; in many cases the
speech path is "virtual," e.g. a slot in a multiplexed connection.
Someone mentioned 1-A-2 key systems. Guess how out of date that information
is...? Try ten years or so. There are still a few -very few- 1-A-2 key
systems in service because the owners haven't seen fit to modernise. The
reason no new 1-A-2 goes in (except for very rare situations, interestingly
enough often including radio stations which handle call-ins) is because
every telephone requires a 25-pair cable and equivalent cross-connects,
which is an extremely labor-intensive (our field rate is $100/hour, typical
in our market area) proposition in order to get a feature package which
dates back to 1923 or so (lines, hold, intercom, that's all folks!). You do
not want to spend more money installing obsolete technology when you could
spend far less and get much more for your investment. (It's not that I
personally dislike 1-A-2; I think it's nice... and quaint... like the old
Western Electric 202 set which I have in my bedroom... just not something to
use in a modern business application, that's all!) So yes, you can
compromise a 1-A-2 system for illicit surveillance, but good luck finding
one to compromise!
In fact, modern digital key systems and PBXs have their own potential
compromises, such as "auto-answer handsfree intercom." The normal legit
application is, the secretary calls the executive whose phone answers itself
so the secretary can announce an incoming call; the executive's phone
activates itself so s/he doesn't have to lift the receiver or press the
speakerphone button to answer. Some of these can be programmed to not
provide the "splash tone" which alerts the called party that this feature is
being invoked... thereby allowing a snoopy office-mate to phone your office
and eavesdrop on the conversation you're having in the room. However, a
light or an indicator will generally come on to show that the feature has
been activated.
People who are concerned about the rights of working Americans should be
making noise about this type of abuse (i.e. when management uses it to spy
on workers), same as with any other violation of individual dignity in the
workplace (or for that matter overt violations of rights). However, this
particular type of surveillance is not something indulged in by government;
it is far too expensive except in cases where a serious and concentrated
investigation is underway. Finally, the means of audio and visual
surveillance available today are far more sophisticated than tampering with
telephone sets; if you're concerned about that, you're looking in the wrong
place.
Re. test numbers to dial for "bug detection." No, no, a thousand times no!
First of all, any number you see published is almost certainly out of date
and has been changed years ago. Second, the "sweep tone test" (which is
commonly mis-identified as some form of bug detection) is used for
transmission testing, i.e. to determine if the line equalisation is correct
(i.e. the entire frequency range of the line is being transmitted at a
volume level which is within specifications; for example so you don't get a
connection which sounds like a radio with the "tone" control turned all the
way to "bass" or "treble"). Some of us, who learned to troubleshoot by ear,
can use that sweep tone to diagnose all kinds of things, but bugs are not
one of them. Third, technicians do not give out test numbers to "civilians"
(non-technicians). We need those test numbers to do our jobs. We don't
like it when a test number has to be changed because it's been tied up by
civilians using it as a topic of conversation at parties (or worse). (And
yes, it's rude to ask, just like asking someone in the military to talk
about something which may be classified.)
Broad-spectrum surveillance: Yes, it's possible, and probably even occurs
domestically to some degree. If you're concerned about legitimate business
or personal correspondence being compromised, the solution is PGP or other
strong encryption whose properties have been discussed in public forums.
However, encryption does not prevent traffic analysis (TA), which can
provide a remarkable amount of highly accurate data about any organisation
merely by examining its pattern of communication without knowing what is
beind said.
Frankly I don't see how this stuff is even relevant to emergency
preparedness, except for hypothetical scenarios involving various forms of
tyrrany imposed to quell civil disorder. However, in that case, the highest
priorities would be in dealing with overt organised crime rather than with
dissident groups (remember, triage!). I'm responding to this thread to
correct some technical points primarily; though also I would hope that
readers will realise that the probability level is low and there are more
important things to be worrying about.
jb...@richnet.net
wpm...@nycap.rr.com (Bill Marcy) wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:00:18 -0400, fire...@keeplooking.net (Awesome1)
> wrote:
>
> > I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
> >"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
> >going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
> >and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
> >if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
> >or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
> >activated? How could one tell?
>
> It is called an infintiy transmitter, no clicking can be heard, there
> would be a dial tone on your end (not to the listener). One can't
> tell.
>
used a mechanically produced tone to activate the mic. Newer ones use elec-
tronic signals to activate the mic. The problem with the newer ones is that
they need a dedicated phone line to work properly. Also the newer phone
switching equipment makes infinity bugs virtually impossible to use properly.
John Beal
Greg
Awesome1 wrote in message ...
>"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
>going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
>and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
>if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
>or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
>activated? How could one tell?
You have to physically modify the phone to make it work. A
normal phone can not be made to do this from outside the
home. And if someone was in the house there are far better
bugs to place than a modified phone...
FishLipper
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/QuasarElectronics/SurvProd.htm
>
>But, tapping other peoples phones could result in prison time.
For plans to build your own prison or tap prison phones where can I go?
FishLipper
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/QuasarElectronics/SurvProd.htm
>
>But, tapping other peoples phones could result in prison time.
Where can I buy plans to build a prison and then tap the phones in it?
FishLipper
>You can buy plans to build your own at:
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/QuasarElectronics/SurvProd.htm
>
>But, tapping other peoples phones could result in prison time.
I would like plans to build a prison and tap other peoples phones within the
prison itself do you have those? And if so, would that incur extra additional
prison time and if so, would extra time be needed to learn to tap the prison
phones or some phones in someone elses prison? Or not?
Patton Turner
>Harmonica bugs & infinity transmitters: The guy who commented on the
>electromechanical switching systems almost had it right and then missed by a
>mile. The facts: electromechanical central office switches (step by step,
>panel, and crossbar) would establish a metallic connection between calling
>and called lines, and apply ringing voltage to the called line; the ringing
>voltage would be 20Hz (or otherwise on party lines, that's another topic)
>with superimposed audible ringback tone. Any audio signal injected into the
>line at the called end could be heard by the caller, and vice versa (this
>was also the principle behind the "black box" toll fraud device).
>Therefore, a device could be installed on a target line which would respond
>to a caller injecting a trigger frequency, and go off-hook to enable audio
>surveillance.
The metalic connection had a cap on the line to block DC. The cap had
to be there to prevent drawing loop current. This cap was very small,
as you applied 90 VAC ringing, but you only wanted to couple less
than a milliwatt (about 0.1-0.2 mV) into the calling party's line. A
metallic connection (with no cap, or a large cap) would cause all kind
of problems.
Since the cap was so small, the frequency of the tone to activate the
infinity transmitter had to be high (impedence of a cap being
inversely proportional to frequency, but with in the passband of the
phone network (espically since the call might pass through carrier
equipiment). ANy tone between 2650 and 3000 would be a good choice.
2650 would have probally been a better choice to reduce attenuation
distortion introduced by load coils.
Actually IA2 key systems are still very popular. If you don't need to
expand the system there is little reason to replace them. The audio
quality is better than any PBX or hybrid Key systems accepting metalic
trunks (as almost as good, to just as good as those being fed with
T1s.
1A2s were particular popular in secure areas for two reasons: 1) the
systems tended to be small (one office or work group per switch), and
2) you could terminate a AUTOVON trunk on a 1A2 with no extra work,
and phones with the I,P,F,and FO buttons were readily available.
BTW, the "secure" KSU is still stocked by graybar
I'm not suggesting that anybody has ever done this, just that it was a
threat recognized by NSA, and it was similar to what the poster was
suggesting.
I think I could name about 100 1A2 systems still in use on military
bases, and a few commerical systems. Also a few more used with Wescom
equipiment for air traffic control (not by the FAA, but at non-fed or
military towers)
I've never had a problem getting the numbers when I asked, of course I
could provide a good reason. With the huge area I work in, I can't
keep track of all of the numbers, and have to rely on asking a local
craftsperson.
Hell, I had a OSP tech in Louisville give me the codes to a souped up
MLT system they were using that could be access remotly. That was a
bad idea, sicne the system could be used to ring or disco someone's
phone for 15 minutes at a time.
Pat
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
without ringing the receiver, but making the mouthpiece active, so that
anything loud enough to be heard from the receiver end. Don't know about
today, but it did exist, so the new ones are probably better than ever.
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
Awesome1 wrote in message ...
> I have heard that the telephone reciever can be made
>"hot" allowing the powers that be listen in on whats
>going on in a home. To what extent can this take place
>and would one hear any clicking from the phone, modem
>if this is being done, when no-one is using the phone
>or computer? Would there be a lack of dial tone when
>activated? How could one tell?
>
George A. Gleason
Re. Patton Turner's item there: Interesting, sounds like you've been in the
industry a while... apologies if I came across arrogant about some of what
you posted; there were a bunch of posts in a row there, some of which were
not well informed.
Yes, when a Strowger switch is ringing, the audible signal to the caller is
capacitively coupled. From what I recall (it was quite a while ago), the
connection is attenuated only during the active ringing part of the cycle;
during the silent periods the attenuation is much less and audio can pass
pretty freely.
Re. 1-A-2 systems: Agreed, there are circumstances under which they're
advantageous. I have to admit I've become spoiled by the digital PBXs and
hybrid key systems. Four wires to punch down instead of 50, and then it's
all programming. But the difference for our firm (which is an employee-
owned coop, therefore all of us have a direct incentive in terms of customer
service and economic interests) is, when we install the digital sets we can
often do it so quickly that we can waive the service call charge, which
clients appreciate and actually leads to increased sales. Can't do that
with a 2564 set, much less a 2830.
Relevance of this thread to preparedness issues: I have to admit that 1-A-2
may be an ideal solution for offices and group living situations where power
supply is an issue. For example, wire the bells on the sets to ring
directly from the CO rather than through the KSU ringing supply. Now you
have working service incoming & outgoing during power failure (no lamps and
hold feature though, but what the heck). One can always run a manual
intercom from a DC battery (and use DC buzzers, holy cow I still remember
those!) under the last line key on the set. Used 25-pair cable is cheap if
you buy it from a telecom contractor which does old cable removals when
rewiring buildings.
With that in mind (advertising!), our firm and another local firm have tons
of old 1-A-2 equipment lying around in storage that we can't bear to throw
in the dumpster but we can't install. Well not exactly tons, but a decent
amount anyway. 584-C panels, modular panels, line cards, phone sets, etc.
If anyone reading this wants some of it, drop me a line (email g...@well.com).
I would guess we could sell the stuff at 30% below whatever the current
advertised rates are for this stuff in the reconditioned equipment market
(and you pay the shipping!:-).
OTOH, our office uses (and we sell to clients) the Panasonic KXT-Hybrid and
SuperHybrid PBXs, which *are* manufacturer certified (and our tests have
verified) Y2K compliant. Even the older generation KXT Hybrid systems are
compliant; I have one in my house which I set to half-hour-before-00-
midnight and called up a coworker... and it kept working normally...! So
you can buy the older units as reconditioned equipment for less than the new
ones and they'll be compliant. Note, they will also accept analog phones,
i.e. the 2500-type sets. For power backup, most of them have an input for a
12-volt battery. We have our own plans for power backup (as many have been
discussing here) for a month or longer.
Re. Autovon phones: Hmm! Hey I have a request. Patton (or anyone) if you
can get the single-line or key system Western Electric sets with the 16-
button dial (legally, of course!), I'd like to buy a couple. I also need a
faceplate for a 6-button keyset with 16-button dial, Western Electric.
(This isn't for commercial resale; I have a decent collection of phone
equipment from around the world, etc... while we're on the topic I may as
well mention, also wanted: Italian dial phones late 1960s to mid 1970s,
Swiss dial phones same era, Czech and Polish dial phones same era.) (Aw
heck while we're on the topic, I may as well mention, I have a good
reputable source for local battery magneto phones, email me for info, and
nope I don't have a commercial interest in their company.)
Pat, if anyone gave you the codes to an MLT system they must trust you a
heck of a lot... I'm on the interconnect side, have to get test numbers
from friends on the telco side, but it's always considered a matter of
trust, especially for things like ANI which can be misused pretty badly in
the wrong hands. I've often had to explain to people, "no, we can't give
that out.." which can be awkward especially with friends and trusted clients
(sigh). Some time next year we're going to develop an in-house testboard
system, with calling number readback, sweep tone, loopback, ringback,
transmission, etc.
John Lydic
>
> There was a device in the '70s that allowed dialing into someone's homes
> without ringing the receiver, but making the mouthpiece active, so that
> anything loud enough to be heard from the receiver end. Don't know about
> today, but it did exist, so the new ones are probably better than ever.
>
> Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
Those bugs are still around but have pretty much been made
unusable. First they require a carbon button microphone
which most of the newer (cheaper) phones no longer use. They
also typically have to be installed by having physical access
to the phone, usually by breaking into the house. If I'm
going to the trouble of breaking into a house, the bugs available
go well beyond the phone bugs.
--
John Lydic
KA8LVZ / NNN0WWJ
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Training Counselor
State Hunter Education Instructor (Ohio)
ly...@netexp.net (Home) lyd...@ch.etn.com (Work)
"Tolerance is the virtue of those with no convictions of their own"
ron
wrote:
>Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
>>
>> There was a device in the '70s that allowed dialing into someone's homes
>> without ringing the receiver, but making the mouthpiece active, so that
>> anything loud enough to be heard from the receiver end. Don't know about
>> today, but it did exist, so the new ones are probably better than ever.
>>
>> Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
>
> Those bugs are still around but have pretty much been made
> unusable. First they require a carbon button microphone
> which most of the newer (cheaper) phones no longer use. They
> also typically have to be installed by having physical access
> to the phone, usually by breaking into the house. If I'm
> going to the trouble of breaking into a house, the bugs available
> go well beyond the phone bugs.
Cant you just hook up a microphone to the "unused" extra wire
pair ( yellow and blue ) and have a amplifier at a distance location
on the line, or better yet a transmitter? If you got to get to the
phone to modify it, this would be just as easy. What are the
extra wire pair for anyway?
SkullyWV
>From: xra...@sprintmail.com (ron)
>"unused" extra wire
>pair ( yellow and blue )
Generaly they are yellow and black.
>What are the
>extra wire pair for anyway?
A second line.
Skully
Gunner
(tie-comdial-meridian-merlin-1A2-SL1 spoken here) :)
Gunner
skul...@aol.com (SkullyWV) wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write
a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort
the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone,
solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program
a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die
gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein
GREYING WOLFF
GREYINGWOLFF
Sam Hall
>extra wire pair for anyway?
Normally, they aren't used at all. Possible uses:
1. A second line
2. Powering the lights on a Princess phone
3. A buzzer/light signaling system.
4. A ground connection on certain types of party lines.
Except for the case of a second line, they end at the demark (the point
where telephone company equipment ends and yours begins)
Sam Hall
Sam Hall
<8268-35...@newsd-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
There is no need to physically enter a premise and install the
devise in the equipment.
Go to any "Spy" shop. The equipment that you need is "off the
shelf".
Best.
And you will waste your money. For standard copper lines, you can buy the
equipment at Radio Shack. For the increasing number of lines on pair gain
devices, you need a telephone expert to build something to tap that system,
and there are lots of different ones out there.
Tapping a phone isn't easy without help from the telephone company. I work
in the industry and I don't think I could do it in most cases without either
access to telephone company records or your property. And even with that
access, the odds of getting caught are high.
This thread was about making a telephone set "hot." As others have pointed
out, that "trick" quit working years ago. If you did figure out how to do
it, there is the fact that modern central office equipment does automatic
line testing which should report the line as bad when it hears audio on a
on-hook line. Just as soon as a repair guy takes a look at the line, the
game is over.
If the telephone company does a regular tap on your phone, you will never
know about it until they play the tapes in court. The *only* technical way
to detect a modern tap is to find someone who has access to the programming
of the central office switch.
Sam Hall
Patton Turner
>If the telephone company does a regular tap on your phone, you will never
>know about it until they play the tapes in court. The *only* technical way
>to detect a modern tap is to find someone who has access to the programming
>of the central office switch.
That would be for 99% of legal taps. The cops do have their butt sets
and bed of nails clips and will result to them in a few legal
situations (99% of the time because time is of the essence. I am
aware of one case in where it was done because the LEO didn't trust
the phone company (small town, high gossip value). Everybody at the
telco was pissed. With most of the guys it was because they weren't
trusted. A few of the older guys were hurt because they realized the
LEO may have made the right call.)
Sams right about it being hard to tap carrier equipiment. I have a
box in my truck that will do it (DS0 D/I function on a Fireberd 6000),
but it costs $14,000. About the only way I can think to tap a phone
and not get caught is to multiple the phone line to another user
location on a unused pair and tap it there. Otherwise the tap would
have to be located at the customer premise. Anything else would be
where telco might find it.
Pat
Patton Turner
>Re. 1-A-2 systems: Agreed, there are circumstances under which they're
>advantageous. I have to admit I've become spoiled by the digital PBXs and
>hybrid key systems. Four wires to punch down instead of 50, and then it's
>all programming. But the difference for our firm (which is an employee-
>owned coop, therefore all of us have a direct incentive in terms of customer
>service and economic interests) is, when we install the digital sets we can
>often do it so quickly that we can waive the service call charge, which
>clients appreciate and actually leads to increased sales. Can't do that
>with a 2564 set, much less a 2830.
I can count on one hand the number of new 1A2 key systems I have seen
in the last five years. But I have talked to a number of
interconnects that maintain or add new lines to them. I put in a
bastard version of one for the city of Hickory, NC ( 4 wire, SS1
signaling) When checking things out before starting work, I ran
across an interesting acronym on the WESCOM SS1 equipiment "ON". ON
stands for Off-Normal. The begs the question what does On Hook means
:-).
>Relevance of this thread to preparedness issues: I have to admit that 1-A-2
>may be an ideal solution for offices and group living situations where power
>supply is an issue. For example, wire the bells on the sets to ring
>directly from the CO rather than through the KSU ringing supply. Now you
>have working service incoming & outgoing during power failure (no lamps and
>hold feature though, but what the heck). One can always run a manual
>intercom from a DC battery (and use DC buzzers, holy cow I still remember
>those!) under the last line key on the set. Used 25-pair cable is cheap if
>you buy it from a telecom contractor which does old cable removals when
>rewiring buildings.
>With that in mind (advertising!), our firm and another local firm have tons
>of old 1-A-2 equipment lying around in storage that we can't bear to throw
>in the dumpster but we can't install. Well not exactly tons, but a decent
>amount anyway. 584-C panels, modular panels, line cards, phone sets, etc.
>If anyone reading this wants some of it, drop me a line (email g...@well.com).
> I would guess we could sell the stuff at 30% below whatever the current
>advertised rates are for this stuff in the reconditioned equipment market
>(and you pay the shipping!:-).
The fact that is is listed in Telecom gear, means sombody wants it.
OTOH, I was in Raleigh, NC and needed an KTU ASAP to Fedex to another
employee. I probally had less than an hour to get the KTU before it
was too late to ship it. It was already too late to place an order
with Graybar. I contacted a local interconnect to see if he had any
sitting arround and he offered to sell me one for $15. When I got
there to pick it up, he wife said he felt a bit guilty that it might
not work, so he left 6 of them for me, figuring one of them had to
work.
>OTOH, our office uses (and we sell to clients) the Panasonic KXT-Hybrid and
>SuperHybrid PBXs, which *are* manufacturer certified (and our tests have
>verified) Y2K compliant. Even the older generation KXT Hybrid systems are
>compliant; I have one in my house which I set to half-hour-before-00-
>midnight and called up a coworker... and it kept working normally...! So
>you can buy the older units as reconditioned equipment for less than the new
>ones and they'll be compliant. Note, they will also accept analog phones,
>i.e. the 2500-type sets. For power backup, most of them have an input for a
>12-volt battery. We have our own plans for power backup (as many have been
>discussing here) for a month or longer.
I haven't messed with phone systems (PBX or Keys) in 4 years or so,
but I was always fond of Panasonic stuff. I got out just as they
introduced ther big systems, and I hope they didn't ruin their
reputation as I was suspicious they might. I guess you know the
motive behind the system.
>Pat, if anyone gave you the codes to an MLT system they must trust you a
>heck of a lot... I'm on the interconnect side, have to get test numbers
>from friends on the telco side, but it's always considered a matter of
>trust, especially for things like ANI which can be misused pretty badly in
>the wrong hands. I've often had to explain to people, "no, we can't give
>that out.." which can be awkward especially with friends and trusted clients
>(sigh). Some time next year we're going to develop an in-house testboard
>system, with calling number readback, sweep tone, loopback, ringback,
>transmission, etc.
The guy who gave me the MLT codes was an idiot. He was trying to be
helpful, and had no doubt that I was a telecom engineer, but if the
phrase "Not for use or disclosure outside the bell system, except
under prior written consent" ever applied, it applied to this.
One nice thing about todays network is a quiet term, sweep, milliwatt,
LB, etc can be placed anywhere on the network as long as you have a
digital connection. Caller ID or ANI from a 800 number will replace
ANAC in most cases. I used to have problems with this when I was in
college. Now I work with mostly microwave, satellite, fiber, or
special service circuits. Most 2 wire stuff is just to make somebody
happy. And if I don't have the codes I need I just demand it from the
nearest craftsperson :-)
Pat
Curtis LaFon
OK..??
Sam Hall wrote:
--
--------------------------------------------------
FBI wants to register your guns under BRADY.
You can help repeal BRADY. Info at my site:
http://wf.quik.com/n5hdq
Curtis .. N5HDQ ..
John Lydic
>
> Are you assuming that the AC power will be out but the telephone will be
> OK..??
Somebody got into this thread a little late. This had nothing
to do with TEOTWAWKI, etc.. but how someone might bug your phone.
And yes - my phone works find w/o AC since the Telco operates
on huge 48 volts battery banks, with generators as backup. How
long in a real crisis would depend on fuel availability.
> Sam Hall wrote:
>
><snip>
> > 4. A ground connection on certain types of party lines.
> >
> > Except for the case of a second line, they end at the demark (the point
> > where telephone company equipment ends and yours begins)
> FBI wants to register your guns under BRADY.
> You can help repeal BRADY. Info at my site:
> http://wf.quik.com/n5hdq
> Curtis .. N5HDQ ..
--
Me
>
>Are you assuming that the AC power will be out but the telephone will
be
>OK..??
>
>
>> ron wrote in message <35fb1c33...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com>...
>> >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:13:09 -0400, John Lydic <ly...@netexp.net>
>> >wrote:
>> > What are the
>> >extra wire pair for anyway?
>>
>> Normally, they aren't used at all. Possible uses:
>> 1. A second line
>> 2. Powering the lights on a Princess phone
>> 3. A buzzer/light signaling system.
>>
>> Except for the case of a second line, they end at the demark (the
point
>> where telephone company equipment ends and yours begins)
>>
>
>
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------
>FBI wants to register your guns under BRADY.
>You can help repeal BRADY. Info at my site:
>http://wf.quik.com/n5hdq
>Curtis .. N5HDQ ..
>
>
signaling and system control power. They can stay up for a long time
after the mains fail.
With deregulation I suspect that they do not have as much reserve
power as in days past, but that may be balanced by the (hopefull) fact
that modern electronic draws a lot less power than older equipment.
Me
E.B. Stancil
> Telephone companies have very large battery banks that provide the talk,
> signaling and system control power. They can stay up for a long time
> after the mains fail.
Try about 12 hours. When I was in college, our city had a telephone
failure due to human error. Lightning had blown out the rectifiers and
so the system swtiched to battery backup. Human error - the controllers
missed the warning signals so no repairs were initiated until the
batteries failed.
It was not a total system failure - you could call anyone within your
exchange but could not call between exchanges - no local, long-distance,
or 911 service available.
They literally activated all fire departments. TV and radio indicated
to go to the nearest police/fire station so any emergency traffic could
be routed through their radio nets.
Small town? Hardly. This occured in Charlotte, NC (Metro pop
500,000+).
Sam Hall
<1dfk2jr.wt...@host-209-214-60-99.int.bellsouth.net>...
Battery backup times vary. I have seen 4 hours up to 24 hours. Most major
telephone sites have a backup generator, so the batteries have to last until
they can get a broken generator fixed.
Sam Hall
--
"One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering.
'Supernatural' is a null word." -R.A. Heinlen