Salary Cap Questions
Miguel
players??
1.) Terry Glenn
2.) Tebucky Jones
3.) Ty Law
4.) Lawyer Milloy
5.) Chad Eaton
6.) Hank Thomas
7.) J'Juan Cherry
8.) Chris Slade
9.) Ted Johnson
10.) Larry Whigham
- -
Miguel
Pats39
I'll give it a shot, but it will take a little time.
"Miguel" <nep...@mail1.nai.net> wrote in message
news:8gp562$hj1$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Pats39
From the looks of your web page you have a pretty good grip on what is
happening, but I will give you my take. I must say your effort and info is
impressive. I have thought about doing something similar before, but I just
don't have the time or willingness. I would like to caution that incentives
make it tricky to get exact numbers on some contracts, especially rookie
deals. Please feel free to dispute any of my numbers, I don't claim to have
the inside info.
> 1.) Terry Glenn
Glenn's original 6 year/$12M deal has two years to run and has never been
restructured to the best of my knowledge. It has been reported that Glenn
received no signing bonus, and if Glenn were to be cut the Pats would take a
cap hit of only $30K.
> 2.) Tebucky Jones
Signed a 5 year/$5.2M contract with a $2.2M signing bonus in '98.
> 3.) Ty Law
The 2nd-best deal a CB has ever received (behind Deion). Totaling 7
years/$48.1M
without Pro Bowl and Super Bowl incentives, which are $250K each, every
year.
He received a $14.2M signing bonus, which counts for $2M until 2005. The
rest of the money
breaks down as follows:
1999 - $900,000 salary, a $500,000 reporting bonus, and a $100,000 offseason
workout bonus
2000 - $1.4 million salary, plus a $500,000 reporting bonus and $100,000
offseason workout bonus
2001 - $2.4 million salary, $500,000 reporting bonus, and $100,000 workout
bonus
2002 - $3.7 million salary with a $1 million reporting bonus and $100,000
workout bonus
2003 - $4.9 million in salary, a $1 million reporting bonus, and a $100,000
workout bonus
2004 - $6.65 million base salary, with a $1 million reporting bonus and
$100,000 workout bonus
2005 - $7.75 million salary with a $1 million reporting bonus and a $100,000
workout bonus
Oh yeah, as an added bonus, Law receives the workout bonus even if he
doesn't work out with the team. His program doesn need to be supervised by
the team.
Actually, when looked at the cap hits are fairly manageable until the later
years of the deal, at which time he will need to have the contract re-done.
> 4.) Lawyer Milloy
Milloy's deal is actually two different deals. The first part is a 4
year/$15M contract with a $6M signing bonus. The second half is a 3
year/$20M contract with a $2M signing bonus. After the 4th year, the
Patriots have an option to void the remaining three years of the deal. If
the team does not decide on the option before a certain date prior to the
start of free agency, Milloy can decline the option and declare himself a
free agent. For cap purposes, the $6M bonus gets spread over the full 7
seasons at about $857K per year. It is a very cap-friendly deal.
> 5.) Chad Eaton
Before '98 he signed a 3 year/$1.5M contract. That would make him a FA
after this season, but it is possible he signed an extension at some point.
> 6.) Hank Thomas
Signed a 3 yr/$7M+ deal with a $2.4M signing bonus before '99. There are
roster bonuses built into the deal, and he already received a $300K roster
bonus on March 1 of this year. He still has $1.6M in bonus money
unamortized and if cut after June 1 would count $800K against the '00 and
'01 cap. His salary last year was $400K, so that leaves about $4.2M+ in
salary earned in the final two years of his contract. I figure his salary
is probably between $1.5M-$2M in '00, assuming a normal salary spread.
That money would all be saved if he is released after June 1, but the $800K
charge is assumed in '01.
> 7.) J'Juan Cherry
I didn't know about this one, but it sounds like you have good info on it.
> 8.) Chris Slade
Slade has two years left on his original 5 yr/$12.75M deal signed before the
'97 season. He received a $3.5M signing bonus, which was spread over the
contract at $700K per season. His contract was restructured this year,
converting $2M in salary to bonus which allowed it to be spread over the
contracts final two years at $1M each in '00 and '01 (a $1M savings this
year). Thus, he has a $1.7M cap charge over the next two years for his
bonus money.
> 9.) Ted Johnson
Ted's deal was for $25M ($8M SB) over 5 years. The deal was similar to
McGinest's except that it was an extension signed before the '98 season that
runs through 2003. He played under his original deal in '98, but received
his signing bonus in two parts: $3M in '98 and $5M in '99. The $3M payment
was prorated over 6 years ($500K from '98-'03) while the $5M payment is
spread over 5 years ($1M from '99-'03). The deal featured a buyout after
two seasons, but that would cost the team another $5M (they didn't exercise
it).
> 10.) Larry Whigham
Signed just before the draft in '99 to a 4 year deal, but I don't know the
details.
-------------------------------------------
I have additional information on other players which may or may not be of
interest to you:
Vincent Brisby:
In 1996 Brisby signed a 5 yr/$8.5M deal with a $2M signing bonus. That
means and allocation of $406K from '96-'00. Last year Brisby was
renegotiated and an additional year was tacked on to his contract. In
addition to the extra year, Brisby's Salary was reduced to $1.3M for '99 and
$1.5M (both estimates) for '00 (the '00 salary brings his total cap figure
in line with the $2.16M which has been reported in the papers). I do not
know what the salary for the additional year ('00) is, but I don't think it
will matter. Brisby also received an additional bonus of $750K, which is
spread at $250K for the years '99-'01.
Since $406K of his original bonus and $250K of his newer bonus were charged
off in '99, that leaves $406K of his original bonus and $500K of his new
bonus left unamortized. If he is released after June 1, that means he would
count $656K against the cap in '00 and $250K against the cap in '01 (when a
player is released after June 1 it isn't a 50/50 split, rather a regular
charge of his signing bonus in the current year and an acceleration of
remaining bonus monies in the following year. A cap savings of $1.5M would
occur in '00, which is the result of Brisby's salary coming off the books.
Max Lane & Todd Rucci:
Rucci and Lane signed near-identical 5 year/$11M contracts with $2.8M
signing bonuses before the '98 season. That means there is an allocation of
$560K per season for the SB, but there are several additional workout
bonuses in the deals which only count against the cap when earned. Workout
bonuses are always classifed as Likely to Be Earned. If either Lane or
Rucci is released before completing the workout program, that money will not
count toward the cap. If they released after the completion of the workout
program, that money will be earned even if they are released.
Also, with Max Lane, his contract was renegotiated last year to make cap
room available for the team to sign TE Henry Lusk. The team did this by
converting $600K in salary to bonus, which lowered his salary to $400K,
saving about $450K on the '99 cap. That $600K is charged as $150K in the
years '99-'02. That means Lane's charge for the years '00-'02 rises to
about $710K.
Releasing Rucci after June 1 would result in a $560K cap charge in '00 and a
$1.12M charge in '01. Releasing Lane after June 1 would result in a $710K
charge in '00 and a $1.42M charge in '01. Both players are scheduled to
earn in excess of $2M in '00, so a cut after June 1 would save that amount,
but the '01 charge would be fairly large.
Rod Rutledge:
Signed a 4 year deal worth $2M with a $700K signing bonus in 1998.
Robert Edwards:
Signed a 5 year/$5.725M deal, including a $3.1 million signing bonus. The
Pats have received cap relief in each of the last two years on his salary,
but his bonus still counts toward their cap.
Miguel
news:8gvi5i$2j36$2...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
> From the looks of your web page you have a pretty good grip on what is
> happening, but I will give you my take. I must say your effort and info
is
> impressive. I have thought about doing something similar before, but I
just
> don't have the time or willingness. I would like to caution that
incentives
> make it tricky to get exact numbers on some contracts, especially rookie
> deals. Please feel free to dispute any of my numbers, I don't claim to
have
> the inside info.
This has been a great help. If you don't mind, I would like to cite you as a
source.
> > 2.) Tebucky Jones
>
> Signed a 5 year/$5.2M contract with a $2.2M signing bonus in '98.
I thought that the bonus was $2.6M.
This is EXTREMELY helpful.
> > 4.) Lawyer Milloy
>
> Milloy's deal is actually two different deals. The first part is a 4
> year/$15M contract with a $6M signing bonus. The second half is a 3
> year/$20M contract with a $2M signing bonus. After the 4th year, the
> Patriots have an option to void the remaining three years of the deal. If
> the team does not decide on the option before a certain date prior to the
> start of free agency, Milloy can decline the option and declare himself a
> free agent. For cap purposes, the $6M bonus gets spread over the full 7
> seasons at about $857K per year. It is a very cap-friendly deal.
I thought that the 6M was prorated over the 1st 4 years.
<The rest snipped>
Once again, thanks so much for sharing the knowledge.
Miguel
news:8gvi5i$2j36$2...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
> happening, but I will give you my take. I must say your effort and info
is
> impressive. I have thought about doing something similar before, but I
just
> don't have the time or willingness. I would like to caution that
incentives
> make it tricky to get exact numbers on some contracts, especially rookie
> deals. Please feel free to dispute any of my numbers, I don't claim to
have
> the inside info.
>
>
> Signed a 3 yr/$7M+ deal with a $2.4M signing bonus before '99. There are
> roster bonuses built into the deal, and he already received a $300K roster
> bonus on March 1 of this year. He still has $1.6M in bonus money
> unamortized and if cut after June 1 would count $800K against the '00 and
> '01 cap. His salary last year was $400K, so that leaves about $4.2M+ in
> salary earned in the final two years of his contract. I figure his salary
> is probably between $1.5M-$2M in '00, assuming a normal salary spread.
> That money would all be saved if he is released after June 1, but the
$800K
> charge is assumed in '01.
Since Thomas has already earned his 300K roster bonus, would he not count
$1.1 MM against the cap this year if released??
Chris Matthews
Pats39 <pat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8gvi5i$2j36$2...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
> happening, but I will give you my take. I must say your effort and info
is
> impressive. I have thought about doing something similar before, but I
just
> don't have the time or willingness. I would like to caution that
incentives
> make it tricky to get exact numbers on some contracts, especially rookie
> deals. Please feel free to dispute any of my numbers, I don't claim to
have
> the inside info.
>
> > 1.) Terry Glenn
>
> Glenn's original 6 year/$12M deal has two years to run and has never been
> restructured to the best of my knowledge. It has been reported that Glenn
> received no signing bonus, and if Glenn were to be cut the Pats would take
a
> cap hit of only $30K.
Glenn is now in the first of 2 years of non-guaranteed money.
He got no signing bonus, but the first 4 years of his contract where
guaranteed, so if he were to be cut (as if..) he would save the Pats what
ever his contract would have been this year (a little over $ 2 Million)
CJ
Pats39
> This has been a great help. If you don't mind, I would like to cite you as
a
> source.
Feel free, if there is anything else I can do, let me know. When I find
info I want to keep, I cut and paste it into text files and save it.
Unfortunately, they aren't really organized so I have to go searching
whenever I want to reference something. I have thought about putting
everything into a database, but that hasn't happened. I have thought about
doing something similar to your page, but I haven't been able to find the
time or put in the effort. I am impressed by your page, you obviously have
done a lot of work. If there is any other info you might need, let me know
and I will see what I can find.
> I thought that the bonus was $2.6M.
I have a Globe Article written by Nick Cafardo on 7-19-98 that states the
following:
"Tebucky Jones, the 22d player selected in the 1998 NFL draft, agreed to a
five-year, $5.2 million contract with the Patriots yesterday. The deal for
the team's No. 2 first-round selection includes a $2.2 million signing
bonus."
Now, that was the initial report and it may have subsequently been reported
differently, but that is the only info I have.
> > > 4.) Lawyer Milloy
> I thought that the 6M was prorated over the 1st 4 years.
I believe you can spread the deal over option years in a contract, which
many teams do to relief the cap burden. If the contract is voided by the
Pats after 4 years or Milloy opts out, then the remaining bonus money is
accelerated. As an example, Vinny Testaverde's contract with the Jets was a
3 year deal with 4 additional option years. I know for a fact that his
bonus money is spread over the full 7 years. The Jets never intended for
him to play beyond the three years, but added the option years to spread the
cap effect.
Pats39
> Since Thomas has already earned his 300K roster bonus, would he not count
> $1.1 MM against the cap this year if released??
Yes, but the bonus is counted when earned, so it has already been charged to
the cap. If the Pats cut him they take the additional hit on the $800K in
bonus and his salary comes off the books.
Miguel
>
> > This has been a great help. If you don't mind, I would like to cite you
as
> a
> > source.
>
> Feel free, if there is anything else I can do, let me know. When I find
> info I want to keep, I cut and paste it into text files and save it.
> Unfortunately, they aren't really organized so I have to go searching
> whenever I want to reference something. I have thought about putting
about
> doing something similar to your page, but I haven't been able to find the
> time or put in the effort. I am impressed by your page, you obviously
have
> done a lot of work. If there is any other info you might need, let me
know
> and I will see what I can find.
I will add you as a source in my next update. I have been using an Excel
workbook to help me. If you want, I can email it to you. One of my future
goals is to let people download the workbook to their PCs so they can use
it.
Here's a couple of questions.
1.) Do you have any numbers for Willie McGinest??
2.) Should I have increased the salaries of Bishop and Fletcher to $275,000
(the present minimum for a player with a year's experience) or should I have
let them stay at $250,000 (the minimum for a player with a year's experience
when they signed their contracts in 1999)??
> > I thought that the bonus was $2.6M.
>
> I have a Globe Article written by Nick Cafardo on 7-19-98 that states the
> following:
>
> "Tebucky Jones, the 22d player selected in the 1998 NFL draft, agreed to a
> five-year, $5.2 million contract with the Patriots yesterday. The deal
for
> the team's No. 2 first-round selection includes a $2.2 million signing
> bonus."
>
> Now, that was the initial report and it may have subsequently been
reported
> differently, but that is the only info I have.
Another goal of mine is to document all of my figures. I remember reading
somewhere that Tebucky got a $2.6MM SB.
> > > > 4.) Lawyer Milloy
>
> > I thought that the 6M was prorated over the 1st 4 years.
>
> I believe you can spread the deal over option years in a contract, which
> many teams do to relief the cap burden. If the contract is voided by the
> Pats after 4 years or Milloy opts out, then the remaining bonus money is
> accelerated. As an example, Vinny Testaverde's contract with the Jets was
a
> 3 year deal with 4 additional option years. I know for a fact that his
> bonus money is spread over the full 7 years. The Jets never intended for
> him to play beyond the three years, but added the option years to spread
the
> cap effect.
Check out the Patriots website (http://www.patriots.com/98news/021000a.asp)
.
Miguel
"Chris Matthews" <chrism...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:65QY4.55776$nl3.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...> news:8gvi5i$2j36$2...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > From the looks of your web page you have a pretty good grip on what is
> > happening, but I will give you my take. I must say your effort and info
> is
> > impressive. I have thought about doing something similar before, but I
> just
> > don't have the time or willingness. I would like to caution that
> incentives
> > make it tricky to get exact numbers on some contracts, especially rookie
> > deals. Please feel free to dispute any of my numbers, I don't claim to
> have
> > the inside info.
> >
> > > 1.) Terry Glenn
> >
> > Glenn's original 6 year/$12M deal has two years to run and has never
been
> > restructured to the best of my knowledge. It has been reported that
Glenn
> > received no signing bonus, and if Glenn were to be cut the Pats would
take
> a
> > cap hit of only $30K.
>
>
> He got no signing bonus, but the first 4 years of his contract where
> guaranteed, so if he were to be cut (as if..) he would save the Pats what
> ever his contract would have been this year (a little over $ 2 Million)
Can you give an approximate figure?? My salary cap figures are guesstimates
so anything you can provide will be helpful.
How much is Glenn due to earn in 2001??
--
Trying to compile the best Patriots salary cap information page at
http://w3.nai.net/~nepats/patriotscapinfo.htm
Miguel
Pats39
> 1.) Do you have any numbers for Willie McGinest??
5 yrs/$25M with an $8M signing bonus signed prior to the '98 season. No
details on salary, but the salaries were "escalating" according to the
paper.
> 2.) Should I have increased the salaries of Bishop and Fletcher to
$275,000
> (the present minimum for a player with a year's experience) or should I
have
> let them stay at $250,000 (the minimum for a player with a year's
experience
> when they signed their contracts in 1999)??
I think their contracts are binding and the numbers don't change, even if
the minimum is raised.
Pats39
Miguel,
I found a site that will answer a ton of your questions: www.nflpa.org
It is the official site of the NFL Players Organization and there is tons of
info, including:
- Info on how to become an agent
- Info on the Collective Bargaining Agreement
- Info on the salary cap, very detailed
- A player lookup that will give you the players salary (not bonuses),
year-by-year (which will help you with your spreads)
This site is awesome, will answer a ton of questions.
Pats39
> 1.) Do you have any numbers for Willie McGinest??
Based on the info on NFLPA.org, it looks like McGinest was restructured down
to the NFL minimum in '99 and '00 to create cap space. It is possible his
salaries were in there at low numbers originally, but not probable.
Normally, the salary is converted into signing bonus and restructured over
the life of the contract. They have his salary spread as follows:
1998 $1.9M
1999 $400K
2000 $440K
2001 $2.9M
2002 $3.4M
Unfortunately, we don't know his base salaries before the restructure, but
we can assume his salaries previously were about $2.2M and $2.5M prior to
the resturcture. If so, he has been guaranteed an additional $3.86M ($1.8M
in '99 and $2.06M in '00). His original SB was spread at $1.6M per season
from '98-'02. The '99 restructure would add an estimated $450K from '99-02
and the '00 restructure would add an estimated $687K from '00-'02. That
means his guaranteed monies left unamortized are as follows:
'00 - $2.74M
'01 - $2.74M
'02 - $2.74M
Total - $8.22M
With that amount of guaranteed money it is almost certain that he will see
the end of the contract and not be cut. That isn't a huge concern, as he is
still a very good player, but it is risky if he should get hurt and miss
significant time again. It is also possible that he could have agreed to a
pay cut, with salary being coverted to incentives, but again I don't think
that is probable. Also, there are probably addtional, non-guaranteed monies
in the contract in the form of roster bonuses, workout bonuses and
incentives.
Miguel
Just bookmarked the site. Thanks so much.
Miguel