SACD 5ch vs 2ch Kind of Blue
Mark Lewis
Kind of Blue SACD's? I have been enjoying the 2 channel version since the
summer and have just purchased the 5 channel disc. In my setup I hear less
of the Bass (the instrument) than in the 2 channel version. This may be a
problem with my Center channel setup as the 2 channel is quite different.
Can anyone tell me what they have heard? BTW, the channel mix seems to be
the same on both releases of the SACD....to me at least. All my close
comparisons have been on the first track - So What - to simplify my
listening.
The separation of the instruments also seems quite different in 5 channels
as well. The piano and Sax on the left side sound close together on the 2
channel mix but the piano is somewhere down the left side of my room with
the 5 channel mix (I am going to check my speaker balance with a sound meter
to verify my setup but I think I am ok). The Sax on the right is also closer
to me along the right wall a bit but the separation from the drummer is not
quite as pronounced. The effect is as if the instruments are almost arrayed
in a semi-circle around the listener as opposed to being up on a wide stage,
well as wide as the speakers or even a bit more, on the 2 channel version
I expect/suspect that the original three channel recording has been used for
the 5 channel mix, with Miles and the Bass player coming from the center
channel. Both discs sound much better than the most recent CD version but I
think the 5 channel is a bit odd at times. The 3-4 other 5 channel SACD's I
have do not seem to be lacking in bass frequency output so I kind of wonder
about this Kind of Blue mix. As I am more familiar with the 2 channel SACD
mix of Kind of Blue than any of my others I may just be more sensitive to
what the engineer was trying to do on this classic.
All my musing may highlight the complexity in getting a good 5 channel setup
at home and the complexity of the mastering process as well. In theory my
setup (see below for the details) should be good on this sort of music and
performs quite nicely on other 2 channel music as well as movies.
My setup is as follows:
Chiro (by the late lamented Kinergistics) C300 and C200 amplifiers
Vandersteen 2ci front speakers
Vandersteen VSM-1 rear speakers
a Vandersteen VCC-1 center speaker
two Vandersteen 2WQ subwoofers connected in-line with the 2ci's
B&K Model 30 Preamp - in analog pass through mode
"junior" Sunfire Subwoofer on the LFE channel - this does not come into play
with how I have the SONY setup..see below...I may try bringing it online but
prefer to leave it out of the loop on music.
a SONY CE775 SACD player
Using the bass management functions in the SONY I use the setup 6 - Large
Front Speakers with Small Center and Rears with no Subwoofer. I tried
setting all the speakers to Direct and Large on the SONY did not hear any
great difference/bass improvement. In theory my configuration should route
the Bass frequencies from the Center and Rears to my fronts which have the
two in-line subwoofers. In general the Vandersteen center provides very high
quality sound and Miles sounds much same through it as he does in the two
channel mix...only the Bass player is getting cheated.....perhaps the SONY
is not performing as the documentation says.
After I check the balance on the speakers, one more time, I am going to try
to get in some critical listening (my kids are starting to complain about
hearing the same track over and over<g>.....) to see what else I can
discover.
What has everyone else heard on this release?
Thanks,
Mark Lewis
President
Mark D. Lewis Inc.
mdl...@mdlewis.com
Stephen McElroy
Lewis" <mdl...@mdlewis.com> wrote:
> What has everyone else heard on this release?
There was recent talk that the rear channels were synthesized from the
threee channel master. Have you tried a three channel audition?
It would be too much to hope that this would be a straight transfer of the
original master, but this may be as close as we get.
I haven't heard either issue.
Stephen
--
Tom Lehrer: I know there are people in
this world who do not love their fellow man,
and I HATE people like that.
Mark Lewis
SONY that I have no Center Channel at all. The bass is quite a bit more like
the two channel mix. This option on the SONY forces me to indicate I have
full range surrounds, which I don't they only go down to 60Hz.
I think my problem is that my Center Speaker only goes down to 150Hz (this
is what the Vandersteen docs say though their website says that the current
version of my speaker goes to 80Hz) and the SONY bass crossover from Small
to Large speakers is probably lower than that...the documentation does not
give any details but one would suspect around the usual 80Hz. I am going to
have to get a full range center speaker, an external box like the Outlaw
piece, or wait until we have full base management for DVD Audio/SACD. Oh
well... I am happy that I can explain most of what I am hearing now.
Mark Lewis
President
Mark D. Lewis Inc.
mdl...@mdlewis.com
"Stephen McElroy" <smc...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:smcatut-0501...@dial-90-1.ots.utexas.edu...
Stephen McElroy
Lewis" <mdl...@mdlewis.com> wrote:
> I have not tried just three channels but will give it a go. If I tell the
> SONY that I have no Center Channel at all. The bass is quite a bit more like
> the two channel mix. This option on the SONY forces me to indicate I have
> full range surrounds, which I don't they only go down to 60Hz.
> I think my problem is that my Center Speaker only goes down to 150Hz (this
> is what the Vandersteen docs say though their website says that the current
> version of my speaker goes to 80Hz) and the SONY bass crossover from Small
> to Large speakers is probably lower than that...the documentation does not
> give any details but one would suspect around the usual 80Hz. I am going to
> have to get a full range center speaker, an external box like the Outlaw
> piece, or wait until we have full base management for DVD Audio/SACD. Oh
> well... I am happy that I can explain most of what I am hearing now.
Too bad about the reduced range center speaker. I guess it's okay as a
"dialogue" speaker, or whatever you want to call it. I guess processors
aren't infinitely flexible, though this (Right-center-left) doesn't seem
so unthinkable as a listening mode.
I found this:
http://www.52ndstreet.com/reviews/reissues/kindofblue.html
It seems "Kind of Blue" leads the way again!
dave weil
McElroy) wrote:
>In article <1pZZ7.7673$Vz3.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Mark
>Lewis" <mdl...@mdlewis.com> wrote:
>
>> I have not tried just three channels but will give it a go. If I tell the
>> SONY that I have no Center Channel at all. The bass is quite a bit more like
>> the two channel mix. This option on the SONY forces me to indicate I have
>> full range surrounds, which I don't they only go down to 60Hz.
>
>> I think my problem is that my Center Speaker only goes down to 150Hz (this
>> is what the Vandersteen docs say though their website says that the current
>> version of my speaker goes to 80Hz) and the SONY bass crossover from Small
>> to Large speakers is probably lower than that...the documentation does not
>> give any details but one would suspect around the usual 80Hz. I am going to
>> have to get a full range center speaker, an external box like the Outlaw
>> piece, or wait until we have full base management for DVD Audio/SACD. Oh
>> well... I am happy that I can explain most of what I am hearing now.
>
>Too bad about the reduced range center speaker. I guess it's okay as a
>"dialogue" speaker, or whatever you want to call it. I guess processors
>aren't infinitely flexible, though this (Right-center-left) doesn't seem
>so unthinkable as a listening mode.
He should go to ubid and get the Merak MC634 center channel speaker if
it's still available. Cost me about $65 including shipping. It's got 2
6 1/2 in woofers and a 3/4 in titanium tweeter. It's rated 60 Hz to 22
kHz (but no tolerances given - shame on you Floyd O'Toole). Its
efficiency is 92 db. It sounds pretty good to me. They also offer a
horn tweeter model that seems almost identical in almost every way and
I wish I had gotten that one just to match up with the horns I have
all around already.
Mark Lewis
Outlaw Audio bass controller is an option but I think just going ahead with
a center with a wider range is the best option. Vandersteen has some updated
choices so I will probably stay with them but will look at the product you
suggest.
Thanks,
Mark
"dave weil" <ddw...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rc1i3ug1jpc1md1os...@4ax.com...