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Loewe Aconda settings question

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nearly

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May 19, 2003, 6:21:45 AM5/19/03
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Trying to work out what the menu setting "RGB displays at AV2" means. The
info button displays
"If this function is activated, picture displays from RGB-capable AV
equipment connected to AV2 are played back immediately at all program
places".

I have a Strong SRT5290 connected by RGB over Scart to my AV2 but haven;t
been able to detect any change in behaviour by setting this to Yes or No.

Thanks.


Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]

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May 19, 2003, 6:32:15 AM5/19/03
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it sounds like it will auto switch to this input when there is a RGB signal
in on it.

--
Louis Solomon
www.SteelBytes.com


"nearly" <jeff_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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nearly

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May 19, 2003, 8:36:22 AM5/19/03
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That's what I thought (and hoped) but it doesn't seem to have the effect.

"Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]" <lo...@steelbytes.com> wrote in message
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Grant Mascord

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May 19, 2003, 6:30:53 PM5/19/03
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My planus does that with both the digital set top box and Foxtel box. It get
a bit annoying if you dont turn off the box if you try to switch back to
analouge as the tv says it is on 9 for example but is still showing the
output from either box that is on.

Grant

"nearly" <nea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Michael Kilpatrick

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May 20, 2003, 9:05:59 AM5/20/03
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It might be for non-SCART devices that have component RGB output, such as
many DVD players.

My DVD player has RCA type RGB (YUV actually) outputs and you need a special
"component to SCART" cable to connect those outputs to the SCART input on my
Loewe Xelos. It is then necessary to enable "Run YUV, Synch from Y" for the
TV input being used as the TV does not detect it automatically.

With a device that has a full SCART output, such as my Thomson STB (and your
Strong), the TV SCART input detects the RGB mode automatically and the
setting your are asking about probably makes no difference. That seems to
be how my Xelos works, anyway.


Eeyore

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May 28, 2003, 3:44:59 AM5/28/03
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"nearly" <jeff_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Ze2ya.266$th7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

> Trying to work out what the menu setting "RGB displays at AV2" means. I>

I have an Aconda and for a time fed an RGB signal from a Thomson box into
it. I was advised by International Dynamics [importers] that there was no
point, because I wouldn't get any better picture than from S-video. The
reason -- so I am told -- is that the Loewe sets convert incoming RGB
signals to S-video, so why not cut out the conversion phase.

When I switched from RGB to S-video I couldn't see any difference.

The only system that seems to have no merit is component from a DVD player
to the TV. The picture looks OK but there is a faded band, about 2 cm deep,
across the top of the screen. It is very annoying. And I paid a fortune for
the component connector!

Eeyore

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May 28, 2003, 3:45:41 AM5/28/03
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Michael Kilpatrick

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May 28, 2003, 5:25:15 AM5/28/03
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Probably no consolation, but your post has saved me some embarrassment. I
replaced my no-name DVD player last Sunday with a Pioneer and connected it
to my Lowew Xelos with a component cable that I had previously only used
briefly.
I noticed the same faded band across the top of the screen and assumed it
was caused by the Pioneer. I was going to take it back this Saturday but
now that I am using the S-Video connection, the band has gone.
Like you I can't see any difference in the picture quality (which is pretty
good) but I'm surprised such an up-market brand as Loewe is not fully
compatible with what is meant to be the preferred mode of connection.
Anyway, thanks for the info.


Rod Williams

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May 28, 2003, 5:48:53 AM5/28/03
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You should see a difference between S-video and RGB/component. I suggest
taking a closer look. The effect is very subtle.....or get a test pattern
from FIGHT CLUB, etc. On my Loewe Ergo component and RGB definitely make a
difference. Also get good cables.

Rod

--

Banned 'n Censored Films in Australia:
www.cosmos.net.au/~hologram/chopping_list.html


"Eeyore" <sno...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Ben Healy

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May 28, 2003, 6:08:41 AM5/28/03
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"Eeyore" <sno...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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What chassis do you have?
My Loewe Q2400 Arcada has quite a difference between s-vid and RGB, I
haven't tried component. I don't think they convert everything to s-vid on
the newer models.
Ben


Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]

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May 28, 2003, 9:55:05 AM5/28/03
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I've been reading this thread, and got curious ...
I have a Xelos with the Q2300 series 'guts'. But I have the circuit digram
for the Q2400 ... so I spent some time this evening tracing through it to
see what I could about the video path.

here's what I found (I am not an electronics engineer, and hence I could be
wrong on any of this :-)

the RGB and YC (svideo) and YUV (component) go pretty much straight into a
chip that digitised them, which then feeds into the CPU. Of course the big
question, does this chip also do a color space conversion ? I dont know,
probably at least YC->YUV. anyway, to continue on, the CPU does the image
scaling etc, then the output is fed into another chip that converts the
digital into analogue YUV, this goes through another chip (I think this is
where the VGA connects in - damn it's hard to read such small writing) that
converts it to RGB, and then it heads off to the final stage for driving the
CRT itself.

from thinking about this path, I would guess that the CPU does it's image
processing in YUV, and hence I would guess that a Q2400 should give the best
results with a YUV input (ignoring VGA)

--
Louis Solomon
www.SteelBytes.com


Ted Harper

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May 28, 2003, 5:21:37 PM5/28/03
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"Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]" <lo...@steelbytes.com> wrote:

I was waiting for the right moment to jump into this thread. It seems
to come up quite regularly and the RGB-SVideo-RGB thing has reached a
kind of cult status :-)

>I've been reading this thread, and got curious ...
>I have a Xelos with the Q2300 series 'guts'.

AFAIK, the Q2300 *does* do RGB-SVideo-RGB - see the quoted email from
Loewe below.

[context: Long-term aus.dvd readers will recall my writeups from a few
years ago of my problems with my (Q2300) Loewe Credo and am
Macrovision-enabled (Loewe) DVD player - when connected via RGB SCART
- which ultimately resolved in InterDyn offering me a concessional
trade-up to a Q2400-based Credo which does *not* do this
RGB-SVideo-RGB processing and thus does NOT have the nasty discoloured
bar from the Macrovision across the top of the screen.]

>here's what I found (I am not an electronics engineer, and hence I could be
>wrong on any of this :-)

On this issue, people tend to quote someone who quotes from Loewe
engineering. Here is an email someone in one of the uk newsgroups
received which is pretty-much right on, as far as showing "yes the
sets _used_ to do this but now they _don't_".

The context was the person who received the reply and posted it to the
newsgroup had emailed Loewe to ask why his (Q2300-based) TV was
suffering from the horizontal discoloured bar (from Macrovision via
RGB SCART) - as was discussed about 3 years ago in aus.dvd.

Here is the reply from Loewe - you can find it for yourselves in
context in the newsgroup thread via google if you choose some
reasonable words (I used "Loewe plausible RGB Svideo" just now to
re-find it myself):

'Dear mr. Duckers,
we know that consumers expect highest resolution from RGB input.
This was correct in the past when we used TVs with 50Hz deflection,
where the 50Hz RGB signal was directly passed to the analog video-
amplifier.
The introduction of 100Hz TVs solved the problem of 50Hz flicker
but it was no longer possible to feed RGB signals directly to video-
amplifier. So its necessary to convert the 50 Hz RGB signal to the
100Hz deflection. Therefore in your set we convert the RGB to YC and
pass signal through standard 50/100Hz signalprocessing. Unfortunately
the macrovision code has some influence also for the converter.
Another way would be to digitalize RGB separately before processing
and converting to 100 Hz. This way is used in the upgraded models but
visually there is no real advantage to YC because both systems need a
conversation and the minimal higher resolution in RGB mode of upgraded
sets is compensated by a very precise colour phase in YC. The
tolerance of three separate RGB signals involves a certain colour
shift. TVs have therefore no setting to balance. Top TVs have
therefore another input system, component signals,R-Y,B-Y,Y.
I hope that I could bring some light into this matter and remain
with best regards'

Okay, there you have it. The nub of this - and information which seems
to have been taken out of context and become the stuff of urban legend
across all Loewe TVs is this:

* "in **your** set we convert the RGB to YC and pass signal through
standard 50/100Hz signalprocessing. Unfortunately
the macrovision code has some influence also for the converter."
(emphasis mine). The TVs which have the Macrovision green bar artifact
- Q2300 and below, as owned by the gentleman who emailed Loewe - *do*
process RGB->SVideo->RGB and the macrovision mucks this processing up.

* HOWEVER, "Another way would be to digitalize RGB separately before
processing and converting to 100 Hz. This way is used in **the
upgraded models**" (emphasis mine again - ie Q2400 and later chassis).

* ALSO, "Top TVs have therefore another input system, component
signals,R-Y,B-Y,Y." (this is component - it's not clear from the
context which - if any - Loewe models might do this)

>from thinking about this path, I would guess that the CPU does it's image
>processing in YUV, and hence I would guess that a Q2400 should give the best
>results with a YUV input (ignoring VGA)

I think you're right, and the information I've quoted above seems to
bear this out.

Definitely, on our Q2400-based TV, the RGB picture quality is superior
to that possible from SVideo - given the same input devices and high
quality cables in each case, and that is consistent with the other
people I know with Xelos, etc TVs which also have the Q2400 chassis.

However, to my eyes and on our TV the component input didn't seem any
"better" than RGB when I tried some A:B tests a while back (have tried
with a DVD player and a PS2). Maybe this could be explained if the
firmware in the TV doesn't do as good a job with component as it
possibly could? I recently had my Credo updated to the latest (6.0)
firmware and I haven't retried an A:B component/RGB test since. Maybe
I'll do so when I get some spare time.

ted.h.
--
Ted Harper (Sydney, Australia)
Email: tha...@nsw.bigpond.net.au
Voice: +61-418-442-342

the

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May 28, 2003, 6:11:35 PM5/28/03
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The "faded band" is caused by Macrovision on all Q2400 chassis. At least
this was a BIG improvement from older chassis which displayed a fluorescent
green band! The only fix is to get a DVD player where the Macrovision can be
disabled (as I did) or go back to using S-Video (which is a small step
backwards in picture quality IMHO - mainly in colour purity)

"Michael Kilpatrick" <mkilpatr...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
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