Agnes Dunbar, wife of James Douglas of Dalkeith
Suzanne Doig
(d. 1420), ancestor of the Earls of Morton, was Agnes Dunbar, daughter
of Patrick, Earl of Dunbar. It does not state *which* Patrick was her
father.
Chronology would tend to suggest that Agnes was daughter of Patrick,
Earl of Dunbar and March d.1368 by his second wife Agnes Randolph.
Is this the case?
Suzanne
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* Dr Suzanne Doig sm...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz *
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ED MANN
>
> CP IV:39 states that the first wife of Sir James Douglas of Dalkeith
> (d. 1420), ancestor of the Earls of Morton, was Agnes Dunbar, daughter
> of Patrick, Earl of Dunbar. It does not state *which* Patrick was her
> father.
> Chronology would tend to suggest that Agnes was daughter of Patrick,
> Earl of Dunbar and March d.1368 by his second wife Agnes Randolph.
>
> Is this the case?
I have:
Direct Descendants of Duncan
1 Thane Duncan aka: Earl of Strathclyde ref #: S252-36
2 Duncan aka: Thane of Dule b: Abt. 949 ref #: S252-35
3 Crinan Mormaer aka: "Crinan the Thane" b: Abt. 978 d: 1045 ref #:
(Ä170-19)
+Bethoc MacKenneth aka: Beatrix b: Abt. 984 ref #: Ä170-19
4 King Duncan I of Scotland aka: Duncan mac Crinan b: Abt. 1003 d: 14
Aug 1040 ref #: Ä170-20
+Sybilla FitzSiward b: Abt. 1009 d: 1040 ref #: (Ä170-20)
5 King Malcolm III of Scotland aka: "Ceannmor" b: Abt. 1031 d: 13 Nov
1093 ref #: Ä170-21
*2nd Wife of Malcolm III of Scotland:
+Princess Margaret of England aka: St. Margaret of Scotland b:
Abt. 1045 d: 16 Nov 1093 ref #: Ä1-22
6 King David I of Scotland aka: "The Saint" b: Abt. 1080 d: 24 May
1153 ref #: Ä170-22
+Matilda de Huntingdon aka: Maud de Huntingdon b: 1072 d: Abt.
1131 ref #: Ä148-24
7 Sir Henry de Huntingdon aka: Earl of Huntington b: 1114 d: 12 Jun
1152 ref #: Ä170-23
+Ada de Warenne b: Abt. 1120 d: 1178 ref #: Ä89-25
8 King William of Scotland aka: "William the Lion" b: Abt. 1143 d: 4
Dec 1214 ref #: Ä89-26
9 [10] Ada ref #: BxP:606
+[9] Sir Patrick de Dunbar aka: 6th Earl of Dunbar d: 1232 ref #:
BxP:606
10 Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 7th Earl of Dunbar ref #: BxP:606
+Eupheme Stewart ref #: BxP:606
11 [4] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 8th Earl of Dunbar d: 1289 ref #:
BxP:606
+[3] Christiana Bruce ref #: BxP:606
12 [6] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 9th Earl of Dunbar b: 1242 d: 10 Oct
1308 ref #: BxP:606
+[5] Marjory Comyn d: Aft. 1296 ref #: W108B-4
13 Sir Alexander Dunbar ref #: W108B-5
14 [2] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 10th Earl of Dunbar d: 1357 ref #:
W108B-6
+[1] Isabel Randolph aka: Agnes Randolph d: Abt. 1369 ref #:
BxP:449
15 Agnes Dunbar ref #: BPci:1553
*2nd Wife of William of Scotland:
8 Sir David de Huntingdon aka: Earl of Huntingdon b: Abt. 1144 d: 17
Jun 1219 ref #: Ä93-26
+Maud of Chester aka: Maud de Meschines b: 1171 d: 1233 ref #:
Ä131-29
9 Isabella de Huntingdon d: 1251 ref #: Ä252-27
+Sir Robert de Brus aka: Lord of Annandale d: 1245 ref #:
(Ä252-27)
10 Sir Robert de Bruce aka: Lord of Annandale b: 1210 d: Bef. 3 May
1294 ref #: Ä252-28
+Isabel de Clare b: 2 Nov 1226 d: Aft. 10 Jul 1264 ref #: W41-3
11 Sir Robert Bruce aka: Lord of Annandale; 3d Earl of Carrick b: Jul
1243 d: Mar 1303/04 ref #: W41-4
*2nd Wife of Robert Bruce:
+Eleanor ref #: (Ä252-29)
12 Isabel Bruce ref #: BxP:449
+Sir Thomas Randolph aka: Lord of Strathnith ref #: BxP:449
13 Sir Thomas Randolph aka: 1st Earl of Moray d: 20 Jul 1332 ref #:
BxP:449
+Isabel Stewart ref #: BxP:449
14 [1] Isabel Randolph aka: Agnes Randolph d: Abt. 1369 ref #:
BxP:449
+[2] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 10th Earl of Dunbar d: 1357 ref #:
W108B-6
*2nd Husband of Isabel Bruce:
*2nd Wife of Robert de Bruce:
10 [3] Christiana Bruce ref #: BxP:606
+[4] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 8th Earl of Dunbar d: 1289 ref #:
BxP:606
5 King Donald Bane of Scotland d: Aft. 1096 ref #: Ã121A-23
6 Bethoc ref #: Ä121A-24
+Huctred of Tyndale ref #: (Ä121A-24)
7 Hextilda ref #: Ä121A-25
+Richard Comyn d: Abt. 1179 ref #: (Ä121A-25)
8 Sir William Comyn aka: 1st Earl of Buchan d: 1233 ref #: Ä121A-26
*2nd Wife of William Comyn:
+Marjorie aka: Countess of Buchan ref #: (Ä114A-26)
9 [8] Sir Alexander Comyn aka: 2d Earl of Buchan d: Bef. 6 Apr 1290
ref #: Ä114A-27
+[7] Elizabeth de Quincy aka: Isabel de Quincy d: Bef. Nov 1328
ref #: W108-3
10 [5] Marjory Comyn d: Aft. 1296 ref #: W108B-4
+[6] Sir Patrick Dunbar aka: 9th Earl of Dunbar b: 1242 d: 10 Oct
1308 ref #: BxP:606
*2nd Husband of Hextilda:
4 Maldred Mormaer aka: Earl of Dunbar b: 1005 d: 1045 ref #: Ä172-20
+Ealdgyth of Northumbria b: Bet. 1010 - 1015 ref #: Ä34-21
5 Sir Gospatrick of Northumberland aka: 1st Earl of Dunbar b: 1040 d:
Abt. 1075 ref #: Ä34-22
+ ref #: (Ä34-22)
6 Sir Waltheof de Allerdale aka: Lord of Allerdale ref #: Ä38-23
+Sigrid d: Aft. 1125 ref #: (Ä38-23)
7 Gunnild of Dunbar b: Abt. 1134 ref #: Ä38-24
+Uchtred of Galloway b: Abt. 1100 d: 22 Sep 1174 ref #: Ä121B-27
8 Roland of Galloway b: Abt. 1164 d: Dec 1200 ref #: Ä38-25
+Elena de Morville d: 11 Jun 1217 ref #: (Ä38-25)
9 Sir Alan of Galloway aka: Named in Magna Charta b: Abt. 1186 d:
1234 ref #: W139-1
+ aka: Helen de L'Isle
10 Helen of Galloway b: Abt. 1208 d: Aft. 21 Nov 1245 ref #: W139-2
+Sir Roger de Quincy aka: 2d Earl of Winchester b: Abt. 1174 d: 25
Apr 1264 ref #: W74-2
11 [7] Elizabeth de Quincy aka: Isabel de Quincy d: Bef. Nov 1328
ref #: W108-3
+[8] Sir Alexander Comyn aka: 2d Earl of Buchan d: Bef. 6 Apr
1290 ref #: Ä114A-27
*2nd Wife of Alan of Galloway:
*2nd Wife of Gospatrick of Northumberland:
+Aethelreda of England b: Abt. 1042
6 Sir Gospatrick II de Dunbar aka: Earl of Dunbar d: 23 Aug 1138 ref
#: Ä41-23
+Sybil Morel ref #: (Ä41-23)
7 Waldeve de Dunbar d: 1182 ref #: BxP:606
+Aelina ref #: BxP:606
8 [9] Sir Patrick de Dunbar aka: 6th Earl of Dunbar d: 1232 ref #:
BxP:606
+[10] Ada ref #: BxP:606
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]
KWhi...@aol.com
sm...@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
<< Subj: Agnes Dunbar, wife of James Douglas of Dalkeith
Date: 10/22/98 6:28:58 PM Central Daylight Time
From: sm...@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (Suzanne Doig)
Sender: GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com
Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:sm...@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz">
sm...@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz</A>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
CP IV:39 states that the first wife of Sir James Douglas of Dalkeith
(d. 1420), ancestor of the Earls of Morton, was Agnes Dunbar, daughter
of Patrick, Earl of Dunbar. It does not state *which* Patrick was her
father.
Chronology would tend to suggest that Agnes was daughter of Patrick,
Earl of Dunbar and March d.1368 by his second wife Agnes Randolph.
Is this the case?
>>
I have the following: My source for all of this is primarily the Scots
Peerage and secondarily Burke's. There is a direct contradiction between the
two involving "Black Agnes" Countess Dunbar who defended Dunbar castle against
the English.
Burke's names children for her, while the Scots peerage is adamant that she
and her husband had no children and that all of the descendants of Thomas
Randolph, Earl of Moray come from the 2nd daughter, Isabella, wife of another
Patrick Dunbar, cousin of the Earl.
Hope this helps,
Ky in Houston
DESCENDANCY CHART FOR THOMAS RANDOLPH [1ST EARL OF MORAY]
-------------------------------------------------
1-- Thomas RANDOLPH [1st Earl Of Moray] ( -1332)
sp-Isabel STEWART [Lady of Garlies] ( -1351)
2-- Thomas RANDOLPH [2nd Earl Of Moray] ( -1332)
2-- Black Agnes RANDOLPH [of Moray] ( -1357)
sp-Patrick DUNBAR [9th Earl Of Dunbar] (1285-1369)
2-- John RANDOLPH [3rd Earl Of Moray] ( -1346)
sp-Euphemia ROSS [Queen Of Scotland] ( -1387)
2-- Isabel RANDOLPH ( - )
sp-Patrick DUNBAR ( -1356)
3-- George DUNBAR [10th Earl Of Dunbar] (1340-1422)
4-- Janet DUNBAR ( - )
sp-William de SETON [of Seton] ( -1424)
5-- George SETON [1st Lord Seton] (1406-1478)
sp-Margaret STEWART [of Buchan] ( - )
6-- John SETON [Master of Seton] ( -1476)
sp-Christian LINDSAY [of the Byres] ( -1496)
7-- George SETON [2nd Lord Seton] (1455-1507)
sp-Margaret Marion CAMPBELL (1457- )
7-- JOHN SETON ( - )
7-- ALEXANDER SETON ( - )
5-- Catherine SETON [of Seton] (1410-1468)
sp-Sir Alan STUART [of Darnley] (1407-1438)
Darnley,Scotland
6-- Sir John, Lord Darnley STUART [1st Earl Of
Lennox] (1430-1495)
sp-Margaret MONTGOMERIE [of Ardrossan] (1417- )
7-- Matthew STUART [2nd Earl Of Lennox] (
-1513)
sp-Elizabeth HAMILTON [of Hamilton] ( - )
7-- Wiliiam STUART ( -1503)
7-- Alexander STUART ( - )
7-- Robert STUART (1470-1543)
7-- John STUART ( -1512)
7-- Elizabeth STUART [of Lennox] ( - )
sp-Sir Archibald CAMPBELL [2nd Earl Argyll]
(1468-1513) Argyll,Scotland
7-- Marion STUART ( - )
7-- Janet STUART ( - )
7-- Margaret STUART ( - )
sp-Sir John COLQUHOUN [of Luss] ( -1536)
6-- ALEXANDER STUART [of Galstoun] ( - )
5-- Janet SETON ( - )
sp-John HALIBURTON [1st Lord Haliburton] ( -1452)
6-- Patrick HALIBURTON [2d L.Haliburton] ( - )
sp-Margaret HEPBURN ( - )
6-- George HALIBURTON [3rd Lord Haliburton] (
-1490)
sp-Mariota ( - )
7-- Archibald HALIBURTON [Master Haliburton] (
- )
7-- Patrick HALIBURTON [5th Lord Haliburton] (
-1506)
sp-Margaret DOUGLAS [of Pumpherston] ( - )
7-- Andrew HALIBURTON ( - )
3-- John DUNBAR [1st Earl of Moray] ( -1391)
sp-Marjorie STEWART [Countess Moray] ( -1417)
4-- Thomas DUNBAR [2nd Earl Of Moray] (1370-1415)
sp-Margaret ( - )
5-- Thomas DUNBAR [3rd Earl Of Moray] ( -1427)
sp-Margaret SETON [Countess Of Moray] ( - )
5-- James DUNBAR [4th Earl Of Moray] ( -1429)
sp-Janet GORDON ( - )
3-- Patrick DUNBAR ( - )
3-- Agnes DUNBAR ( - )
sp-Sir James DOUGLAS [1st of Dalkeith] (1330-1420)
4-- Jacoba DOUGLAS ( - )
sp-SIR JOHN HAMILTON [of Cadzow] ( -1402)
5-- James HAMILTON [of Cadzow] (1380-1440)
sp-Janet LIVINGSTONE [of Callendar] ( - )
6-- James HAMILTON [1st Lord Hamilton] (1423-1479)
sp-Mary STEWART [Princess] (1451-1488)
7-- James HAMILTON [2d Lord Hamilton] (1475-1529)
sp-Janet BEATON [of Creich] ( -1522)
7-- Elizabeth HAMILTON [of Hamilton] ( - )
sp-Matthew STUART [2nd Earl Of Lennox] (
-1513)
sp-Euphemia GRAHAM ( -1468)
7-- Elizabeth HAMILTON ( - )
sp-David LINDSAY [5th Earl Of Crawford, Duke Of
Montrose] ( -1496)
6-- ALEXANDER HAMILTON ( - )
6-- JOHN HAMILTON ( - )
6-- Gavin HAMILTON ( - )
6-- AGNES HAMILTON [of Preston] ( - )
6-- Elizabeth HAMILTON ( - )
5-- David HAMILTON ( - )
5-- WALTER HAMILTON ( - )
4-- Sir James DOUGLAS [2d of Dalkeith] ( -1441)
sp-Elizabeth STEWART ( -1411)
5-- James DOUGLAS [3d of Dalkeith] ( -1457)
sp-Elizabeth GIFFORD ( - )
6-- William DOUGLAS ( - )
6-- James DOUGLAS [1st Earl Morton] ( -1493)
sp-Joanna the dumb lady STEWART (1428-1486)
7-- John DOUGLAS [2nd Earl Of Morton] (1466-1515)
sp-Janet CRICHTON [of Cranston] ( -1515)
7-- Jane JOANNA DOUGLAS ( -1491)
sp-Patrick HEPBURN [1st Earl Of Bothwell]
(1450-1508)
7-- James DOUGLAS ( -1480)
7-- Elizabeth DOUGLAS ( -1479)
7-- Janet DOUGLAS ( - )
sp-Sir Thomas ERSKINE [2nd Lord Erskine]
(1400-1493)
6-- HENRY DOUGLAS ( - )
5-- Henry DOUGLAS [Of Dalkeith] ( -1456)
sp-Margaret DOUGLAS ( - )
4-- WILLIAM DOUGLAS ( - )
4-- AGNES DOUGLAS ( - )