American Feast
Ian Hoare
Yesterday I made this little challenge in the middle of a completely
different thread, so I've decided to start a new one, not really to prolong
the discussion which I found fascinating, but really to correct my earlier
error in not having done so.
>
>Cockle chowder (proper New England style, as if using clams, NOT Manhatten
>style with tomatoes)
>
>Cajun Meatloaf
>Very hot Cajun brown sauce
>Mashed potatoes,
>Glazed carrots
>an veg
>
>cheese
>
>"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
>
>Now then. The challenge is to come up with wines for this feast!
OK, to reply to some of the (semi) questions.
Cockle chowder. Turned out to be seafood chowder, as I couldn't get 3 kg of
cockles. I used 1 kg of a variety of clam called "amandes" here, 3/4 kg of
cockles and 1 1/4 kg of mussels.
The recipe is based on one in a british cookbook of the '60s called "Poor
Cook", but with the detailed method as taught me by my good friend Dave
from Enfield CT.
Open shellfish by steaming in a little boiling water. Strain liquid, and
remove shellfish & chop it. To fridge to wait. Chop blanched salt pork
(recipe called for bacon, but I was harking back to the Breton origins)
with onion. Heat in butter and cook until onions nicely translucent without
browning. Add parboiled cubed potatoes and strained seafood juice. Bring to
boil & simmer until spuds really tender but not a mush. Cool till required.
15 mins before serving, reheat to boil, add generous quantity of half and
half (a faint twitch in the direction of lower fat, as it should be all
cream really), and reheat to simmer. Add shellfish, reheat a touch add
loads of parsley and serve tout-de-suite. Yum yum yum. Truly yummy.
The cajun meatloaf is of course as fully american as any meatloaf is (the
dish, as anyone who has studied the history of american cooking knows, owes
its origins to german immigrants - falsches hase et al). Called cajun for
the flavourings used - red, white, black peppers, cumin and bay and the
classic white & green onion, green bell pepper & celery - it is an
invention of one of the better known cooks from the area, Emeril Lagasse or
Paul Prudhomme, I can't remember which. Authentic or not, who cares? It's
magnificent hot, with vegetables, or cold in sandwiches. The essential
element in my version, is that I use leaner meat than that which would be
dound in the States, so no pre-frying or draining are needed. I serve it
with a sauce whose title is slightly misleading. "Very hot Cajun sauce".
For about 3 cups of stock it uses the classic pepper combination, and the
classic vegetables, as well as 1/4 cup of chopped fresh jalapenos. It's hot
for someone not accustomed to Cajun spiciness, but not THAT incandescent.
Tom Shudic wouldn't even notice it!
Our four guests shared our delight in the dish, and none found the sauce
too daunting after the first mouthful or two.
The Looho Pecan pie was developed in my kitchen by yours truly and our
Hunanese american friend Michael. It is less sweet than your classic
American pecan pie (which I honestly find too overdone on the sweetness)
because instead of using 300 mls of karo with refined sugar, we used 300
mls of light maple syrup with pale muscovado sugar. We normally use a
little vanilla, but I forgot! I also forgot to add the grated wind from
half a lemon that I had wanted to experiment with. Neither were missed and
I think I will dispense with them. Instead of the 180 g of shelled pecans,
we used the same weight of freshly shelled local walnuts that had been
gathered fully ripe and sun dried, rather than the green gathered kiln
dried things found in the shops most of the time.
Wines.
I didn't say this earlier, but one constraint was that this meal was to be
within our usual €15 ($16US) limit. So that didn't leave a huge amount for
wine.
With the chowder, we had a Montravel from a decent but not outstanding
grower. Costing about €2 a litre, it had enough body and freshness not to
be overpowered by the cream of the dish. Good match.
With the meatloaf, I copped out. I was really into damage limitation, with
the hot sauce, as I didn't really reckon that any affordable wine in my
cellar would match well. In fact I did have one, which was a spicy Romanian
wine made with a mix of French and romanian varietals, but I forgot it. So
I served a somewhat robust young Bergerac that I have in a bag-in-box at
€2.20 a litre. It's a perfectly pleasant wine, which wasn't entirely
expunged by the food.
With the Pecan Pie, I agree 100% with the Australian brigade. But I'm
afraid I served nothing stronger than water! I might have neem able to put
a PX from Spain, either a malaga or a PX sherry. I liked the Rasteau VDN
idea, but I am not sure that the marked fruitiness (griottes - sour
cherries) woud have been in balance. I'd look for a wine that did _not_
have much balancing acidity, nor the pronounced flavour of the
Mediterranean muscats.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.
Vino
>Yesterday I made this little challenge in the middle of a completely
>different thread, so I've decided to start a new one, not really to prolong
>the discussion which I found fascinating, but really to correct my earlier
>error in not having done so.
>
>>
>>Cockle chowder (proper New England style, as if using clams, NOT Manhatten
>>style with tomatoes)
>>
>>Cajun Meatloaf
>>Very hot Cajun brown sauce
>>Mashed potatoes,
>>Glazed carrots
>>an veg
>>
>>cheese
>>
>>"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
>>
years. Having grown up in the American South (Mississippi, to be
specific), pecan pie was one of the staple desserts of the time.
Looking back, I probably would agree with you that the way it was
prepared it was too sweet. You mentioned Karo syrup. I remember that
but I don't recall seeing it on a grocery store shelf in many years.
That may well be because it is not sold where I now live or because I
bypass that aisle nowadays. But I can't imagine using walnuts in place
of pecans. I like walnuts, but they are not pecans. I have read that
the earlier settlers in North America used pecans as a substitute for
hazelnuts (filberts) because the latter would not grow well in North
America. Later, Oregon would turn out to have the ideal conditions for
growing them.
>>Now then. The challenge is to come up with wines for this feast!
>
While I was growing up, wine (or any other alcoholic beverage) was a
brew concocted by the Devil. It was something the Episcopalians
(American Anglicans) used in Holy Communion; as proper Methodists, we
used Welch's grape juice. In Sunday School, we were taught that no one
was sure exactly what the New Testament was referring to when it
mentioned wine. It could have well been grape juice. I now accept that
as the BS that it was and still is. Clearly, the proper choice of a
matching wine would not have been a major issue at a family meal.
>The cajun meatloaf is of course as fully american as any meatloaf is (the
>dish, as anyone who has studied the history of american cooking knows, owes
>its origins to german immigrants - falsches hase et al). Called cajun for
>the flavourings used - red, white, black peppers, cumin and bay and the
>classic white & green onion, green bell pepper & celery - it is an
>invention of one of the better known cooks from the area, Emeril Lagasse or
>Paul Prudhomme, I can't remember which.
Although where I grew up is relatively close to southern Louisiana,
the cradle of Cajun culture, I was never exposed to that culture's
food until much later in life. In one of my earlier lives, i had the
opportunity to travel across south Louisiana, and i came to enjoy true
Cajun food immensely. I never tried Cajun meatloaf, but that is
probably because I was on an expense account and could enjoy some of
very best examples of that cuisine. BTW, "Cajun" is a corruption of
the term Acadian. I won't go into the history involved here, but it is
a term used proudly by those that claim a link to that culture. The
Cajun dialect is based on French, so I don't completely understand the
reference to German immigrants, but this is not a place to quibble.
>The Looho Pecan pie was developed in my kitchen by yours truly and our
>Hunanese american friend Michael. It is less sweet than your classic
>American pecan pie (which I honestly find too overdone on the sweetness)
>because instead of using 300 mls of karo with refined sugar, we used 300
>mls of light maple syrup with pale muscovado sugar. We normally use a
>little vanilla, but I forgot! I also forgot to add the grated wind from
>half a lemon that I had wanted to experiment with. Neither were missed and
>I think I will dispense with them. Instead of the 180 g of shelled pecans,
>we used the same weight of freshly shelled local walnuts that had been
>gathered fully ripe and sun dried, rather than the green gathered kiln
>dried things found in the shops most of the time.
See my earlier comments.
>
>Wines.
>
I have not a clue what wines, if any, would work with any of the above
dishes.
Vino
Cwdjrx _
plenty of pecan pie. There is much regional variation in how it is made.
I thought you might like to consider some of the variations. Karo(a
brand name of corn syrup) comes both in light and dark versions. The
sugar used can range from whte refined to dark brown. I prefer the dark
Karo, but only light brown sugar. Some use quite a bit of vanilla
extract, and the highest quality double strength that you can find is
best. Others flavor with Bourbon whiskey, which also works well. Pecans
can become rancid very rapidly, so you need a good source of fresh ones.
The tiny native pecans have more flavor than the large commercial ones.
Many use a very large amount of pecans - sometimes 2 to 4 cups per pie.
Also butter often is added, from just a little to quite a bit. Many like
to use a flaky pie crust. This is somewhere between an ordinary tart
pastry and puff pastry in texture. It takes some time to learn how to
mix it. Also many prebake the pie crust somewhat to avoid a soggy
bottom.
Although PX and other very sweet and heavy wines might work well, you
might consider Cafe Brulot Antoine. There is a special device for making
this, but you probably could adapt a chafing dish or something of that
sort. My Brulot device consists of a copper bowl lined with stainless
steel. There is a round tray the size of the bowl below, and the bowl is
supported by a tripod using brass devils for legs. There is a copper
ladle also. Place the following in the Brulot bowl: 6 small lumps of
sugar, 4 whole cloves, peel of one lemon, 2 pieces stick cinnamon, and 4
oz of a good brandy such as Cognac. Pour about one oz of alcohol into
the saucer under the bowl and light. The flame from the alcohol will
heat the brandy in the bowl and leap into the bowl and ignite the
brandy. With lights lowered, ladle the flaming brew for about one
minute. Then gradually extiguish the flame by pouring in quite strong
French drip coffee - about 4 demistasse cupsful. When the flame goes
out, serve in demitasse cups. Your dark roast French coffee should work
fine. In New Orleans, their dark roast coffee likely would contain a bit
of roast chicory.
Tom AZ
"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:4rc48v8619b0qhpq1...@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday I made this little challenge in the middle of a completely
> different thread, so I've decided to start a new one, not really to
prolong
> the discussion which I found fascinating, but really to correct my earlier
> error in not having done so.
>
> >
> >Cockle chowder (proper New England style, as if using clams, NOT
Manhatten
> >style with tomatoes)
> >
> >Cajun Meatloaf
> >Very hot Cajun brown sauce
> >Mashed potatoes,
> >Glazed carrots
> >an veg
> >
> >cheese
> >
> >"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
> >
> >Now then. The challenge is to come up with wines for this feast!
>
> OK, to reply to some of the (semi) questions.
>
[snip all the yummy details]
>
> With the Pecan Pie, I agree 100% with the Australian brigade. But I'm
> afraid I served nothing stronger than water! I might have neem able to put
> a PX from Spain, either a malaga or a PX sherry. I liked the Rasteau VDN
> idea, but I am not sure that the marked fruitiness (griottes - sour
> cherries) woud have been in balance. I'd look for a wine that did _not_
> have much balancing acidity, nor the pronounced flavour of the
> Mediterranean muscats.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.
It sounds like a great meal altogether. Now my mouth is watering for some
meatloaf! I like the added twist of the price constraint. That certainly
puts a different spin on it all.
Seeing that my wife has an affinity for the dessert beverages, I think I
will check out some of the ones suggested by others. Additionally, what
would be a recommendation for a dessert wine without balancing acidity?
Thanks,
Tom AZ (alfazert at nwlink dot com)
Emery Davis
>
> Hi Ian. Having some relatives from old Southern families, I have had
> plenty of pecan pie. There is much regional variation in how it is made.
> I thought you might like to consider some of the variations. Karo(a
> brand name of corn syrup) comes both in light and dark versions. The
> sugar used can range from whte refined to dark brown. I prefer the dark
> Karo, but only light brown sugar. Some use quite a bit of vanilla
> extract, and the highest quality double strength that you can find is
> best. Others flavor with Bourbon whiskey, which also works well. Pecans
> can become rancid very rapidly, so you need a good source of fresh ones.
> The tiny native pecans have more flavor than the large commercial ones.
> Many use a very large amount of pecans - sometimes 2 to 4 cups per pie.
> Also butter often is added, from just a little to quite a bit. Many like
Karo syrup (still widely available in the US, Vino) is what makes
this tricky to do in France. FWIW I have a source, the boutique
"Thanksgiving" on rue St Paul in Paris. They also have a selection
of CA wines, although nothing to write home about. We use
1/3 dark molasses, (also hard to get here) and 3 tablespoons of
bourbon.
I guess maple syrup would be a workable substitue, although
with considerable different effect, of course.
Has anyone ever tried a vin jaune with something very sweet
like this?
-E
--
Emery Davis
Anders Tørneskog
"Tom AZ" <alfazert@nwlinkdotcom> wrote in message
news:v857tce...@corp.supernews.com...
> .... Additionally, what
> would be a recommendation for a dessert wine without balancing acidity?
>
Without balance?
Anders
Mark J. Svereika
: Hi all,
Ian -- this sounds a bit like the Quebecois traditional desert "tarte de
sucre", made with maple syrup but no nuts. The dishes sound delicious the
way you described them.
Mark S
: The Looho Pecan pie was developed in my kitchen by yours truly and our
Mark Lipton
Tom AZ wrote:
> Seeing that my wife has an affinity for the dessert beverages, I think I
> will check out some of the ones suggested by others. Additionally, what
> would be a recommendation for a dessert wine without balancing acidity?
ROFL!! Without?? Almost any dessert wine made in California, Tom! ;-)
Mark Lipton
Tom AZ
Haven't had any CA dessert wine, that I can remember. Usually it is
from WA state, France, Germany, Hungary or Italy, and of course all of
them, as I recall, save for a Tokay from Hungary, have had a very
pleasent acidity.
I have to tell you, when I looked at what I wrote I realized it was a
bit goofy to say the list.
Here is my re-phrased question (hope it makes more sense), are there
dessert wines out there, you might recommend (and enjoy) that have a
lower acidic level without being overly sweet and syrupy?
Tom AZ
Anders,
Sorry about that, I think I should stay away from the computer after
9:00 PM... So to re-phrase, are there dessert wines out there you
might recommend with lower acid levels, that are not cloyingly sweet
or overly syrupy?
I tend to prefer late harvest reislings, guwertztraminers, and muscats
with a nice acidic bite in contrast to their sweetness, but I have to
admit, that I don't drink a lot of dessert wines, so any suggestions
are appreciated.
Mark J. Svereika
: Sorry about that, I think I should stay away from the computer after
: 9:00 PM... So to re-phrase, are there dessert wines out there you
: might recommend with lower acid levels, that are not cloyingly sweet
: or overly syrupy?
: I tend to prefer late harvest reislings, guwertztraminers, and muscats
: with a nice acidic bite in contrast to their sweetness, but I have to
: admit, that I don't drink a lot of dessert wines, so any suggestions
: are appreciated.
Tom --
there seems to be a dichotomy between the first and second
paragraph. The first one seems to make no sense, as desert wines that
_have_ acidity are the ones that will NOT be cloying. If it's the
_perception_ of acids you want to stay away from (some people notice them
more than others), but want the balance, then I would go with a
Sauternes/Barsac. Low end ones here will cost around $15 for a 375ml
bottle however. Riesling desert wines will display more acidity in the
beginning years, but with age, will balance out into a smoother drink
where you won't be able to taste them as much. Also stay away from Loire
stickies, as these have bone-churling acidity in their youth. Maybe you
could check out something from Spain (can't recall the sweet wines from
there, but they are inexpensive and good) or a Beaumes-des-Venice from S
France.
Now in your second paragraph, you seem to say that you _prefer_
wines that balance the acid with sugar. So is this a difference of
preferences between you and your wife?
Mark S
Mark Lipton
Tom AZ wrote:
> Haven't had any CA dessert wine, that I can remember. Usually it is
> from WA state, France, Germany, Hungary or Italy, and of course all of
> them, as I recall, save for a Tokay from Hungary, have had a very
> pleasent acidity.
With a few important exceptions, you haven't missed much.
> Here is my re-phrased question (hope it makes more sense), are there
> dessert wines out there, you might recommend (and enjoy) that have a
> lower acidic level without being overly sweet and syrupy?
>
Well, there's always Port and the sweeter sherries. But, you can also look for the sweet
wines of Southern France: Banyuls, Maury, Muscat Beaumes de Venise, etc.
Mark Lipton
Ian Hoare
le/on Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:03:50 -0600 (CST), tu disais/you said:-
>Hi Ian. Having some relatives from old Southern families, I have had
>plenty of pecan pie. There is much regional variation in how it is made.
So I understand - which is why Michael and I felt ourselves allowed to make
a sort of "European variant" which doesn't have much claim to authenticity,
but does succeed in being yummy!
>to use a flaky pie crust. This is somewhere between an ordinary tart
>pastry and puff pastry in texture.
Jacquie often makes this kind of pastry, and we love it. We call it "Flaky"
pastry.
>mix it. Also many prebake the pie crust somewhat to avoid a soggy
>bottom.
We would do so, if we didn't have a special pie tin, whose (loose) base is
pierced with many small holes. This allows the pastry to dry from below
when being baked, and honestly greatly reduces the need to pre-bake.
>Although PX and other very sweet and heavy wines might work well, you
>might consider Cafe Brulot Antoine.
Is that from Antoine's in New Orleans? We didn't in fact eat there, but did
however manage to visit Galatoire's.
> Place the following in the Brulot bowl:
Fascinating recipe snipped. (thanks)
>brandy. With lights lowered, ladle the flaming brew for about one
>minute. Then gradually extiguish the flame by pouring in quite strong
>French drip coffee - about 4 demitasse cupsful. When the flame goes
>out, serve in demitasse cups. Your dark roast French coffee should work
>fine. In New Orleans, their dark roast coffee likely would contain a bit
>of roast chicory.
Might very well work excellently. Thanks for the suggestion.
Ian Hoare
le/on Thu, 27 Mar 2003 02:22:53 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>>>"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
>bypass that aisle nowadays. But I can't imagine using walnuts in place
>of pecans. I like walnuts, but they are not pecans.
I quite agree. But then maple syrup isn't Karo either, and any Pecan pie
worth the name has vanilla. The pie is delightful, though I freely admit
that anyone brought up with the "real thing" would have difficulty
accepting our dish as being right.
ALL that said, and accepted freely, I'm left with two tiny problems. What
on earth do I call the dish? I don't think that "Pecan Pie" is right when
made with walnuts, and "Walnut Pie" won't mean anything to anyone. And I
prefer my less sweet version to the real thing.
>>>Now then. The challenge is to come up with wines for this feast!
>>
>While I was growing up, wine (or any other alcoholic beverage) was a
>brew concocted by the Devil.
And of course you're far from being the only person in the USA for whom
that is true.
>>The cajun meatloaf is of course as fully american as any meatloaf is (the
>>dish, as anyone who has studied the history of american cooking knows, owes
>>its origins to german immigrants - falsches hase et al). Called cajun for
>>the flavourings used - red, white, black peppers, cumin and bay and the
>>classic white & green onion, green bell pepper & celery - it is an
>>invention of one of the better known cooks from the area, Emeril Lagasse or
>>Paul Prudhomme, I can't remember which.
>opportunity to travel across south Louisiana, and i came to enjoy true
>Cajun food immensely.
Yup, we did too. We spent about a fortnight in and around the area and
loved it.
> I never tried Cajun meatloaf,
I'm not surprised, because (as you'll probably have seen from Marcel's
comment) it's a complete invention. A HUMUNGOUS success, btw, but you'd
never find it anywhere, probably, in Louisiana.
> BTW, "Cajun" is a corruption of the term Acadian. I won't go into the history involved here,
You don't need to do so for me, as my wife's brother-in-law is a Canadian
Acadian, and has taken great pains on a number of occasions to enumerate
the atrocities to which the Acadians were prey. A shameful time in British
history.
>a term used proudly by those that claim a link to that culture. The
>Cajun dialect is based on French, so I don't completely understand the
>reference to German immigrants, but this is not a place to quibble.
But yes, but yes. If you don't agree or understand. I'll explain. As I
explained the "Cajun" part comes from Paul Prudhomme's playing with the
seasonings. As a dish it has no historical roots in Louisiana AFAIK.
Meatloaf, as a dish, on the other hand has a long history in the USA and
it's that to which I was referring in my "German origin". As you (and
anyone else from the States reading this) know even better than I, cooking
in the States is largely derived from the waves of immigrants who make up
the population. From Boston in the NE to New Mexico in the SW, you have
people of widely different ethnic backgrounds, who brought _their_ way of
doing things to the ingredients they could get hold of. So minced beef
might become a sauce for spaghetti for someone of Italian Origin, Chile con
Carne for someone of Mexican origin, Shepherds pie for someone from the UK,
and hamburger (so common that it even became the word for minced beef) for
someone from nothern Germany. And one of these dishes was the meatloaf. And
that has its origins in the similar dishes found in Germany. I can't
pretend to know ALL European cuisines perfectly, but I think you'll find
that the only European country regularly shaping minced meat into a roast
is Germany.
>I have not a clue what wines, if any, would work with any of the above
>dishes.
Chuckle! Especially French ones!
Ian Hoare
le/on Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:37:03 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>Tom wrote:
>> Hi Ian. Having some relatives from old Southern families, I have had
>> plenty of pecan pie.
>I guess maple syrup would be a workable substitue, although
>with considerable different effect, of course.
It makes a delightful dish, but I'd not really claim it's a substitute.
>Has anyone ever tried a vin jaune with something very sweet
>like this?
Good heavens! That never even entered my head.
Ian Hoare
le/on Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:52:04 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>> With the Pecan Pie, I agree 100% with the Australian brigade. But I'm
>> afraid I served nothing stronger than water! I might have neem able to put
>> a PX from Spain, either a malaga or a PX sherry. I liked the Rasteau VDN
>> idea, but I am not sure that the marked fruitiness (griottes - sour
>> cherries) woud have been in balance. I'd look for a wine that did _not_
>> have much balancing acidity, nor the pronounced flavour of the
>> Mediterranean muscats.
>It sounds like a great meal altogether. Now my mouth is watering for some
>meatloaf!
When you think of how mediocre some of them are, and what a low reputation
the dish has (when made with the lowest quality of minced beef (30% fat)
and far too much oatmeal filler), Prudhomme's Cajun version, when made with
lean meats minced at home is a complete revelation.
>Seeing that my wife has an affinity for the dessert beverages, I think I
>will check out some of the ones suggested by others. Additionally, what
>would be a recommendation for a dessert wine without balancing acidity?
Can't speak for much from the US (plumb ignorant) A liqueur muscat or
"Tokay" (muscadelle) from Australia - Rutherglen is the centre of the
production. There's some made by (Croatian?) immigrants, largely for their
own use near Adelaide in New Zealand, iirc. In Europe, wines like
Contantia, Malaga, Vin Santo, Brown Sherry and so on.
Answering Anders' incredulous question...
Yes, Tom AZ was taking up the suggestion I made in an earlier post. I said
that:-
>>. I'd look for a wine that did _not_ have much balancing acidity, nor the pronounced flavour of the
>>Mediterranean muscats.
To go with a pecan pie, which is a very rich sweet dessert made of
sugar/syrup/eggs/butter and nuts in a tart base.
My point about this is that if you have a dessert wine that might be called
"classic" by European standards, it has significant amounts of balancing
acidity from botrytis (usually).
So therefore it is not really mainstream (by French, Austrian, German and
Hungarian standards) to have a very sweet wine _without_ this balancing
acidity. However I can't see a wine WITH this balancing acidity going well
with such a sweet, rich pie.
Emery Davis
[]
> >Has anyone ever tried a vin jaune with something very sweet
> >like this?
>
> Good heavens! That never even entered my head.
>
Who knows, it might cut the sweet. Stranger things...
But really, I ask out of ignorance. We don't drink much
vin jaune. What would be the (classic) combinations for it?
-E
--
Emery Davis
John Gunn
news:45350bd7.03032...@posting.google.com:
Tom,
Earlier this year I picked up some Moscata Rosa by Franz Haas from Alto
Adige. It was a beautiful floral/rose scented wine with strawberry notes to
it. It was also a light strawberry color. It was quite light. A beautiful
and elegant light dessert wine.
John
amalia
> Salut/Hi Vino,
> le/on Thu, 27 Mar 2003 02:22:53 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
> >>>"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
>
> >bypass that aisle nowadays. But I can't imagine using walnuts in place
> >of pecans. I like walnuts, but they are not pecans.
>
> I quite agree. But then maple syrup isn't Karo either, and any Pecan pie
> worth the name has vanilla. The pie is delightful, though I freely admit
> that anyone brought up with the "real thing" would have difficulty
> accepting our dish as being right.
>
> ALL that said, and accepted freely, I'm left with two tiny problems. What
> on earth do I call the dish? I don't think that "Pecan Pie" is right when
> made with walnuts, and "Walnut Pie" won't mean anything to anyone. And I
> prefer my less sweet version to the real thing.
Hi Ian,
There is such a thing as walnut pie, on the occasional menu, and it's always
something like a pecan pie. A more common variation: a bar cookie made of
walnuts in a syrup "suspension" (?) on a pie crust, thinner and more dense
than a pie and often available by the piece at cafes. I think the perfect
beverage with these is coffee, so perhaps adulterated coffee (as someone
suggested) instead of wine?
Perhaps this is familiar to me as walnuts are more common in California than
are pecans. I like the substitution of maple for karo/corn syrup, as it
maintain a sort of North American flavor.
-Amalia
Alan Raeder
> >Cockle chowder (proper New England style, as if using clams, NOT
Manhatten
> >style with tomatoes)
I would try an Albarino.
> >Cajun Meatloaf
> >Very hot Cajun brown sauce
> >Mashed potatoes,
> >Glazed carrots
> >an veg
> >
> >cheese
3 wines come to mind, and two are whites: Riesling (spatlase), a New Zealand
Sauvignon Blanc, and for the red, a Rioja (crianza). I've had both of the
whites with meatloaf and the contrast is really cool. The meatloaf seemed
lighter and the wines seemed fuller. Wierd.
Also, I don't think the whites will have a problem with the Cajun sauce, or
visa versa. Same with the Rioja. I love mashed potatoes with the two whites
I mentioned.
> >"Pecan Pie" but made with walnuts.
I'm not big on wine with dessert so: Cognac AND a cup of espresso,
alternating between the two. Does Cognac qualify as wine?
If I'm right, what do I win?
Best Regards,
Alan
--
I post, therefore I am.
Anders Tørneskog
> that the only European country regularly shaping minced meat into a roast
> is Germany.
>
Anders
Anders Tørneskog
"Tom AZ" <tomaz_alt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45350bd7.03032...@posting.google.com...
> "Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:<IqCga.16441$ZL2.2...@juliett.dax.net>...
> with a nice acidic bite in contrast to their sweetness, but I have to
> admit, that I don't drink a lot of dessert wines, so any suggestions
> are appreciated.
>
that it was lower in acid than young German Riesling counterparts without
being cloying.
Anders
Cwdjrx _
in New Orleans? We didn't in fact eat there, but did however manage to
visit Galatoire's."
______________________________________
The instructions that I gave came from an old book: The American Drink
Book by S.S. Field; Farrar, Straus & Young, New York, 1953, p.234.
The author had the following to say.
" We have this one direct from our friend Roy Alciatore of New Oreans'
famous Antoine's. When a Brulot is served there, the dining room lights
are extinguished in deference to ritual and the drink."
The old, classic restaurants all have had their ups and downs over the
years. It is best to check with locals there to see which ones are doing
well at the time one visits New Orleans.
The mentioned book has some very interesting information about early
American drinks. Here is one jewel: "To Prevent Sweating in Ye Bedd from
Aches & Paynes : Into Ye heavy cream put a Good Measure of strong
Syder(Applejack) and some Sugar. Whip until it Peeks, Stirring in as
Much Rumme as ye Cream will Hold. Put fine Nutmeg on top. And so to
bed!'
Tom AZ
sver...@newstand.syr.edu (Mark J. Svereika) wrote in message news:<3e835...@news.syr.edu>...
> Tom AZ (tomaz_alt...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>
> : Sorry about that, I think I should stay away from the computer after
> : 9:00 PM... So to re-phrase, are there dessert wines out there you
> : might recommend with lower acid levels, that are not cloyingly sweet
> : or overly syrupy?
>
> : I tend to prefer late harvest reislings, guwertztraminers, and muscats
> : with a nice acidic bite in contrast to their sweetness, but I have to
> : admit, that I don't drink a lot of dessert wines, so any suggestions
> : are appreciated.
>
> Tom --
>
> there seems to be a dichotomy between the first and second
> paragraph. The first one seems to make no sense, as desert wines that
> _have_ acidity are the ones that will NOT be cloying.
Exactly. I prefer a little acid to the wine, but am willing to try
something that may have a less pronounced quality to it.
If it's the
> _perception_ of acids you want to stay away from (some people notice them
> more than others), but want the balance, then I would go with a
> Sauternes/Barsac. Low end ones here will cost around $15 for a 375ml
> bottle however.
I have only tried one or two Sauternes so far which I remember
enjoying.
Riesling desert wines will display more acidity in the
> beginning years, but with age, will balance out into a smoother drink
> where you won't be able to taste them as much.
I do enjoy Riesling dessert wines, and have tried a couple of late
harvest Rieslings from WA state, I like the acidity in these types.
Also stay away from Loire
> stickies, as these have bone-churling acidity in their youth. Maybe you
> could check out something from Spain (can't recall the sweet wines from
> there, but they are inexpensive and good) or a Beaumes-des-Venice from S
> France.
I will definitely follow up on this suggestion, I will need to check
up on Spanish dessert wines, there is a store specializing in Spanish
products with a decent wien selection (including sherry and port).
>
> Now in your second paragraph, you seem to say that you _prefer_
> wines that balance the acid with sugar. So is this a difference of
> preferences between you and your wife?
>
> Mark S
Yes, my wife prefers dessert wine a little sweeter than myself. I seem
to recall we had a Tokay which I found a bit too sweet for my tastes,
but my wife could have consumed the entire bottle by herself!
Tom AZ
Ian Hoare <ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<ikg68v0muqs9dkisr...@4ax.com>...
Thanks for the information. There have been some interesting
suggestions already, and I need to do a little more research, one of
the enjoyable aspects of this "hobby" if you will.
Vino
>>>The cajun meatloaf is of course as fully american as any meatloaf is (the
>>>dish, as anyone who has studied the history of american cooking knows, owes
>>>its origins to german immigrants - falsches hase et al). Called cajun for
>>>the flavourings used - red, white, black peppers, cumin and bay and the
>>>classic white & green onion, green bell pepper & celery - it is an
>>>invention of one of the better known cooks from the area, Emeril Lagasse or
>>>Paul Prudhomme, I can't remember which.
>
>>The
>>Cajun dialect is based on French, so I don't completely understand the
>>reference to German immigrants, but this is not a place to quibble.
>
>But yes, but yes. If you don't agree or understand. I'll explain. As I
>explained the "Cajun" part comes from Paul Prudhomme's playing with the
>seasonings. As a dish it has no historical roots in Louisiana AFAIK.
>Meatloaf, as a dish, on the other hand has a long history in the USA and
>it's that to which I was referring in my "German origin". As you (and
>anyone else from the States reading this) know even better than I, cooking
>in the States is largely derived from the waves of immigrants who make up
>the population. From Boston in the NE to New Mexico in the SW, you have
>people of widely different ethnic backgrounds, who brought _their_ way of
>doing things to the ingredients they could get hold of. So minced beef
>might become a sauce for spaghetti for someone of Italian Origin, Chile con
>Carne for someone of Mexican origin, Shepherds pie for someone from the UK,
>and hamburger (so common that it even became the word for minced beef) for
>someone from nothern Germany. And one of these dishes was the meatloaf. And
>that has its origins in the similar dishes found in Germany. I can't
>pretend to know ALL European cuisines perfectly, but I think you'll find
>that the only European country regularly shaping minced meat into a roast
>is Germany.
>
disagree with anyone in a forum such as this on a topic I know so
little about. My puzzlement was in your reference to German influence
on a dish identified with a culture whose dialect (the term patois is
often used here. I'm not sure I know the difference) has such a heavy
French (the language, not the people) influence. As usual, you cleared
up my puzzlement. After learning the true origin of "Cajun meatloaf",
I feel that I've sort of been had.
Vino
Vino
>Karo syrup (still widely available in the US, Vino) is what makes
>this tricky to do in France. FWIW I have a source, the boutique
>"Thanksgiving" on rue St Paul in Paris. They also have a selection
>of CA wines, although nothing to write home about. We use
>1/3 dark molasses, (also hard to get here) and 3 tablespoons of
>bourbon.
I looked for and found Karo in my local Safeway this afternoon. It was
with the syrups. Both kinds were available but they were on the top
shelf and occupied less than two feet of shelf space. It's no wonder
I've never noticed it before.
Vino
Tom S
> >Cockle chowder (proper New England style, as if using clams, NOT
Manhatten
> >style with tomatoes)
> >
> >Very hot Cajun brown sauce
> >Mashed potatoes,
> >Glazed carrots
> >an veg
> >
> >cheese
> >
> >
Hi, Ian -
I'd composed a lengthy reply to this post, but my computer hiccupped and I
lost it all before I could send it. (I think the drool on the keyboard may
have caused a short circuit.) ;^D
Sounds like a wonderful meal - and you're probably right: it likely wasn't
too hot for my taste! I would have opted for Habanero in addition to the
Jalapeños. Ay, caramba!
Tom S
Tom AZ
"Anders Tørneskog" <atorn...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:M1Lga.16482$ZL2.2...@juliett.dax.net...
Sounds interesting. I will put this one on the list as well. Thanks.
Ian Hoare
le/on Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:23:02 -0500, tu disais/you said:-
Our posts have been crossing!!
>> invention of one of the better known cooks from the area, Emeril Lagasse or
>> Paul Prudhomme, I can't remember which. Authentic or not, who cares? It's
>
>decidedly non-Cajun Emeril Legasse (a Massachusetts native)
Oops, sorry about that.
> appeared on the scene to hawk his various products.
I see you have as much respect for him as I! Certainly he carries less
weight!!!
>It depends to some extent on how hot your jalapenos are... There
>can be quite a range.
True, mine were home grown, and I'd say typical.
> I'll stand by beer as a superior match compared to any wine I can think of.
And as you'll have seen, I agree.
Ian Hoare
le/on Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:09:02 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
>news:4re68vsldr5rd07ub...@4ax.com...
>> ALL that said, and accepted freely, I'm left with two tiny problems. What
>> on earth do I call the dish? I don't think that "Pecan Pie" is right when
>> made with walnuts, and "Walnut Pie" won't mean anything to anyone. And I
>> prefer my less sweet version to the real thing.
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>There is such a thing as walnut pie, on the occasional menu, and it's always
>something like a pecan pie.
AHA!!! Well then that's simple. I'll call it a Walnut maple pie! Thanks for
the info.
>Perhaps this is familiar to me as walnuts are more common in California than
>are pecans. I like the substitution of maple for karo/corn syrup, as it
>maintain a sort of North American flavor.
Thanks. I have to say that I feel it works very well, too.
Here's what we did, though I subbed walnuts for pecans.
----- Now You're Cooking! v5.59 [Meal-Master Export Format]
Title: Looho Pecan Pie
Categories: american, desserts, nuts, pies
Yield: 8 servings
------------------------------EUROPEAN UNITS-------------------------------
250 g flour
1/2 ts salt
100 g butter
60 g shortening
1 egg yolk
1 ts sugar
1 ice water; as needed
-------------------------------PECAN FILLING-------------------------------
3 eggs; beaten
1 pn salt
1/2 ts vanilla extract
120 g light brown sugar
180 g pecans
300 g maple syrup canada #1 light
50 g butter; or more
------------------------------AMERICAN UNITS-------------------------------
1 3/4 c flour
1/2 ts salt
1 stick butter
4 tb shortening
1 egg yolk
1 ts sugar
1 ice water; as needed
-----------------------PECAN FILLING (US MEASURES)-------------------------
3 eggs; beaten
1 pn salt
1/2 ts vanilla extract
2/3 c light brown sugar
1 c maple syrup grade a lt amber
1 1/2 c pecans
3 tb butter
Preheat the oven to 375 degrees F.
Processor method
Put flour, salt, sugar and cold fats in the bowl of the processor.
Process until reduced to fine breadcrumb consistency. Add egg yolk
and ice water, stop processing as soon as the pastry form a ball.
Manual method.
In a bowl, using a pastry blender, combine the flour, sugar, salt,
butter and vegetable shortening until crumbly. Add egg and cold
water and mix to form a ball.
Roll out and place into a 9-inch pie plate. Trim off excess.
Set aside.
In another bowl, combine the beaten eggs, salt, vanilla extract, brown
sugar, pecans, syrup, and melted butter. Pour into unbaked pie
crust.
Bake in preheated oven for 40 to 50 minutes. Allow to cool and
refrigerate.
Recipe M Loo & I Hoare 3 January 96 Forges France
-----
JEP
> on earth do I call the dish? I don't think that "Pecan Pie" is right when
> made with walnuts, and "Walnut Pie" won't mean anything to anyone. And I
> prefer my less sweet version to the real thing.
>
Nut pie is a fairly well accepted name in the New England area of the
US. Many of the old Inns around here make a “pecan pie”
with other nuts or a mixture of nuts and refer to it as such.
Some people claim that the dish originated in the north and was
adapted to use pecans by the southerners because that was the readily
available nut.
Andy
Cliff Brown
Tom,
A wine we enjoy as a slightly sweet aperitif or as a light dessert
wine on a warm evening is La Famiglia di Robert Mondavi Moscato
Bianco. It is low alcohol, slightly sweet, not too acidic, slightly
frizzante, with a nice sweet fruity aftertaste. I've seen it in
several stores here in Wisconsin. I'm sure with Mondavi's
distribution system, it's available just about all over.
As a side note, I saw Mondavi finally found a buyer for the La
Famiglia winery. They will keep the name and make the wine at their
main winery. La Famiglia was always a nice stop while in Napa.
Beautiful scenery, decent wine, nice picnic area, and mainly far
enough off the main roads to be very relaxing.
Cliff
Alan Raeder
I must admit I suffer from ADD ( well, I don't suffer, just wanted some
sympathy.) But where are the wine matchings? Did I miss something?
Mart van de Wege
A tip, if you can get it (it is a rather small vinyard, so
availability may be a problem): Chateau Les Pins Cotes du
Roussillon-Villages.
The nose shows lots of dark fruit, and swirling it through the glass
you can see it hang on the sides almost like port. The taste is sweet
and strong, fruity with a hint of flowers, with just a hint of Syrah
spiciness (like most Roussillon-Villages it contains quite a bit of
Syrah). The aftertaste is long-lasting, and is nice and a bit peppery
over the sweetness of the main taste.
A wonderful wine, but for a Languedoc-Roussilon wine it is pretty
expensive. I bought my six bottles at EUR 9,50 each, so I guess it
would be in the $15-$20 range in the USA *if* you can get it.
Mart (and this time I *did* check the spelling of the name <g>)
--
"When I die I want no part of heaven / I would not do heaven's work well
I pray the devil comes and takes me / To stand in the fiery furnaces of hell"
-- Bruce Springsteen - Youngstown