for PASTOR DAVE- Please Read this time!
Heather Thompson
David couldn't make it to the library but I have his writngs on disk
and will transfer it myself. Enjoy.
PASTOR DAVE WROTE:
If I present one other day that is a Sabbath, that
isn't the seventh day Sabbath, then I have demonstrated
your belief that the seventh day was the only Sabbath,
to be wrong and that is exactly what I did, plus some.
DAVID LEE
Pastor Dave, do you even read what Heather and I jave been writing?
Several times already we have made it abubdantly clear that there were
other Sabbaths other than the weekly Sabbath. The Day of Atonement for
one. Why do you refuse to accept that and instead, like a typical
dishonest christian, act as if we have never addressed this issue.
Now, once more, there were other Sabbaths other than the weekly
Sabbath. I'll say it again, there were other Sabbaths than the weekly
Sabbath. Heather asked me to repeat it for her as well. There were
other Sabbaths other than the weekly Sabbath. I'll do it for my two
cats as well, there were other Sabbaths other than the weekly Sabbath
(that comes from Rusty) and there were other Sabbaths other than the
weekly Sabbath (that comes from Velvet).
Now Pastor Dave, stop your dishonest strawman arguments, be a man,
and stop lying through your christian teeth. This has been repeated
over and over and over and you keep on posting the same inane B.S.
I'll do it once more, There were other Sabbaths than the weekly
Sabbath. Now, if you persist in this dishonest tactic and reveal to
the whole world how stupid you are (and foolish), the whole group will
begin to take notice you have no case whatsoever.
PASTOR DAVE:
Here are a some examples again...
DAVID LEE
This has been dealt with ad nauseam. Is there anything wrong with your
server? Or, is there something far more sinister at work here? Are you
really this dishonest? Are you really this deceitful?
PASTOR DAVE:
Leviticus 16:29-31
29) And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that
in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye
shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all,
whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger
that sojourneth among you:
30) For on that day shall the priest make an atonement
for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all
your sins before the LORD.
31) It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye
shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
DAVID LEE
Please go read my post that I wrote yesterday on this topic. It was
posted to alt.bible and alt.atheism and was timelined at 2003-08-08
08:33:58 PST according to Google. You could not have missed it. Please
read it Pastor Dave. You are only making yourself look foolish.
PASTOR DAVE
Now, unless you want to claim that the 10th day of the
7th month falls on the seventh day of the week, every
year, then you had better admit that neither you, nor
he, had any understanding on the subject of Sabbath
days.
DAVID LEE
Go back to yesterday's post. I get sick and tired off dishonest
christians who totally ignore your replies and then come back the next
day as if nothing has been written to respond to them. These type of
unnscrupulous christians don't really give a damn about the truth. All
they want to do is cut and paste the same old tired worn-out arguments
and give an appearance to lurkers that they have answered the
arguments posed by critics of the bible. So Pastor Dave, christian
that you are, instead of giving chrisitans a bad name, go to Google,
or search your alt.bible and alt.atheism subscription, find my reply,
and begin a rebuttal to that.
PASTOR DAVE
Here's another one...
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the
seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye
have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an
holy convocation." - Leviticus 23:24
Here's two more, just days apart...
"Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when
ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall
keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day
shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a
sabbath." - Leviticus 23:39
DAVID LEE
Same old arguments. Been there, refuted them. Now its your turn to
rebut my refutations. Stop being such a chicken and start being a man
instead of a intellectual coward. I'm sorry Pastor Dave, but that is
how you come across in times like these. You look like an intellectual
coward.
PASTOR DAVE
You claimed that no "high day" was a Sabbath, because
the only Sabbath was the seventh day Sabbath. I proved
you to be in error and instead of just admitting that,
you insist on arguing the point further, now trying to
make claims about Abib 15 (which is the fifteenth day
of the first month) and was the Passover, stating that
it was not a Sabbath, which means, rest. A rest
period. Now, since you insist on wanting to be made a
fool of, I will oblige you.
DAVID LEE
The only one looking like a fool is you. First, there is no "high
day". That is a translation of "the Sabbath was big" in the Greek.
Second, you are a damned liar for insinuating that I claimed that none
of the seven annual holy days were called Sabbaths. I have made it
abundantly clear that the Day of Atonement was a Sabbath. Many times,
but your little brain cannot comprehend that.
Further, Heather and I have repeatedly stated that holy convocations
falling in the SEVENTH MONTH were called Sabbaths in the KJV, although
in the Hebrew text, only the Day of Atonement was called a Sabbath.
The other three holy convocations that fell in the seventh month were
called "Shabbothon" or, "rests" or "sabbitisms" with a different
connotation from "Sabbath."
On a Sabbath, ALL work was forbidden (the Day of Atonement) and on a
Shabbothon, only SERVILE WORK was forbidden. Further, only the Holy
Days that fell in the SEVENTH MONTH were called "Sabbath" or
"Sabbitism". Your claim that rest alone made a day a Sabbath is
patently false. A Sabbath was a day in which ALL WORK was forbidden.
The Sabbitisms were days that only SERVILE WORK was forbiden. And only
if they fell in the SEVENTH MONTH were they called Shabbothon. I have
said this before and I will say it again, I don't give a damn what man
calls a Sabbath. I want you to show me where the SCRIPTURES call Abib
15 a Sabbath. NOT where Pastor Dave goes to the seventh month and
finds a holy convocation called a "Sabbitism" then claims (without
proof) that Abib 15 was a Sabbath. You look like a complete idiot when
you do this. Look at this following example:
1. Memorial Day is a National Holiday
2. July 4th is a National Holiday
3. Martin Luther King Day is a National Holiday
4. Labor Day is a National Holiday
5. Veterans Day is a National Holiday
6. Thanksgiving Day is a National Holiday
7. Christmas Day is a National Holiday.
Additional Premise: Thanksgiving and Christmas were established as
religious Holidays.
Therefore, (according to Pastor Dave's logic) all National Holidays
were established as religious Holidays.
According to Pastor Dave, since Holidays six and seven were
established as religious Holidays then it must mean that all seven
Holidays were established as religious Holidays.
After all, he argues that if a Holiday that fell in the seventh month
of the Jewish calendar was called a Sabbath then all seven Holidays in
the Jewish Calendar must have been reckoned as a Sabbath. He also
argues that a since the Sabbath was a "rest" then all "rests" were
Sabbaths. Logical fallacies abound here.
The fallacies that are so rich in Pastor Daves eisegesis will be
recognized by most on this newsgroup as a "the fallacy of hasty
generalization." Hasty generalization occurs whenV, W, X, Y, and Z
share A in common and Z is found to possess property M. The fallacy
occurs when the asserter claims that since Z possesses property M then
V, W, X, and Y must also possess that property since they all have A
in common. Let's look at some more examples:
1. Dogs give live birth
2. Cats give live birth
3. Humans give live birth
4. Humans are bipedal
5. Therefore, cats and dogs are bipedal.
Here, we can see at once the fallacy because it is so glaring. Here
is another, less glaring, example.
1. All Christians believe in God.
2. Christians A, B, and C speak in tongues.
3. Therefore, all Christians speak in tongues.
And more to the point,
1. A Sabbath is a rest.
2. A nap is a rest.
3. A good night's sleep is a rest.
4. Therefore, a nap is a Sabbath.
This is the kind of logical fallacy that Pastor Dave commits when he
argues that since a Holy Day in the Seventh Month was called a
Sabbath, then all seven Holy Days were called Sabbaths. He also argues
that since all Sabbaths are rest days, then all rest days are
Sabbaths. This is like me arguing that since all National Holidays are
days off work (if you work for the feds) then all days off work are
National Holidays.
In any case, a Sabbath was NOT just a day of rest. It was a day that
forbad 1) ALL work 2) ANY work and allowed 3) NO work at all, 4) NO
manner of work and 5) ANY work(see Leviticus 16:29, 23:28,30, 31;
Numbers 29:7 and Exodus 20:10, 31:14, 15; Lev 23:3, Deuteronomy 5:14;
Jer 17:22). Thus, a Sabbath was a day that allowed absolutely no work,
according to the Tanach. The other holy days, including Abib 15 and
21 disallowed SERVILE work only. Therefore, they were NOT Sabbaths,
Pastor Dave's useless protestations to the contrary.
Moreover, new moons were work free days and they were not Sabbaths
either (Amos 8:5, II Kings 4:23, Ezekiel 46:1,3; Psalms 81:3; I
Chronicles 23:31; II Chronicles 2:4; II Chronicles 31:3, and Ezekiel
45:17.
Not only that, but the Jews clearly understood the holy days were
separate from the Sabbaths. See Levitcus 23:4 and 37,38 to set the
stage then read the following passages coming from a variety of Jewish
books over several centuries: 1) I Chronicles 23:31; 2) II Chronicles
8:13; 3) II Chronicles 31:3; 4) Nehemiah 10:33; 5) Hoseah 2:11; 6)
Lamentations 2:6; 7) Ezekiel 45:17; 8) Ezekiel 44:24; 9) II Chronicles
2:4; 10) Nehemiah 10:31. In the KJV the feastdays above are translated
a variety of ways, such as "set feasts", "solemn feasts",
"solemnities", and "assemblies". This clearly demonstrates that in the
Jewish mind, at least, the feast days were considered separate from
the Sabbaths.
And read Levitcus 23:38 and you will see Jehovah clearly designated a
difference between the Sabbath Days and the feast days. They were not
the same, even according to Jehovah. But do you think that will deter
Pastor Dave? Not in the least.
Also, since Abib 15 only prohibited regular work and not all work,
there would have been no need to rush the burial of Jesus as Abib 15
did not forbid ALL work like the weekly Sabbath. Abib 15 in fact was a
commemoration of the departure from Egypt, a day in which there was
certainly physical work.
And, if Abib 15 (the first day of the feast of unleavened bread) was a
Sabbath then so would be Abib 21 (the last day of the feast of
unleavened bread). Please refer to Leviticus 23: 4-8. Yet we know that
when the wave sheaf offering was waved on the day following the first
Sabbath after Passover lamb was slain (Leviticus 23:9-16), the Jews
were to count seven Sabbaths after which (a Sunday) they were to
celebrate the Feat of Firstfruits (or Pentecost). If Abib 21 was a
Sabbath then it would have to be numbered as well and there would be a
different number of days between the wave sheaf and the Feast of
Firstfruits nearly every year. However, Deuteronomy 16:8, 9 show us
clearly the Jews did not consider Abib 21 a Sabbath and that seven
Sabbaths from the wave sheaf offering was equivalent to seven weeks.
Hence, we know Abib 21 was NOT a Sabbath.
PASTOR DAVE
Jesus was not crucified on a Friday. Let's take a look
at some Scriptures and note the facts. It is also
important to note, that the Jewish day began at evening
(what we would call 6 PM), not in the morning, nor at
midnight.
DAVID LEE
Already knew that. But continue...
PASTOR DAVE
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,
that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the
sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)
besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and
that they might be taken away." - John 19:31
Note that it doesn't just say, "the Sabbath". It says
that this Sabbath was "an high day". The "high day",
is your clue that it wasn't the seventh day Sabbath
under discussion here.
DAVID LEE
You misread the clue. Notice it calls it "THE" Sabbath.
Now what day was routinely called "the" Sabbath by the Jews? The day
of Atonement was called "a" Sabbath but only one day was called "the"
Sabbath by the Jews and that was the weekly Sabbath. Prove me wrong.
It doesn't say "For that Holy Day was a big day" (or "high day") but
~the Sabbath~ was a big day. Hence, John was stressing the weekly
Sabbath and not the holy day.
Furthermore:
1.Why did John call the passover the passover in John 12:1? Why didn't
he call it the sabbath?
2. Why did John call the passover the passover in John 13:1? Why
didn't he call it the sabbath?
3. Why did John call the passover in 18:39? Why didn't he call it the
sabbath?
4. Why did John call the passover the passover in 19:1? Why didn't he
call it the sabbath?
Why was John referring to the passover as the passover in all these
cases yet never called it the sabbath until suddenly (according to
you), out of the blue, he referred to it as the sabbath in 19:31?
What sounds most likely? That John referred to the first day of
unleavened bread as the passover and the weekly sabbath as the sabbath
or, he referred to a so-called midweek festival day by the name
"passover" four times then suddenly switched to "the sabbath" without
so much as clarifying for his readers this was not to be confused with
the weekly Sabbath? What sounds most likely?
But that's not all. If Tuesday coincided with an earth-shattering
event (the bombing of the twin towers) and a pundit referred to that
Tuesday as a "big" day would his use of the term "big" in reference to
Tuesday mean it wasn't really Tuesday he was referring to but some
other day? What if a historian referred to the Sunday that Japan
bombed Pearl Harbor like this, "Now that Sunday was a very big day..."
would that mean it was no longer a Sunday but some other day simply
because he used the word "big"?
But that is exactly what you expect us to believe in regards to the
Sabbath. Simply because a writer referred to the Sabbath as a "big"
one you take it as it wasn't the Sabbath after all. Anyone who
understands Jewish culture (which you don't) would know that combining
the weekly Sabbath Day with Abib 15 (a holy day) would make that
Sabbath a big one. The weekly Sabbath was big because it was joined
with Abib 15, not that Abib 15 was falling on some other day of the
week.
PASTOR DAVE
Since when is the weekly
seventh day Sabbath called, "an high day"? It wasn't.
DAVID LEE
Since when is Abib 15 called a "high day"? Since John 19:31 is the
verse in dispute, we cannot use that as an example. That would be
begging the question. So tell me, since when is Abib 15 called a "high
day"?
You will never be able to find any support for Abib 15 being called a
"high day" because there aren't any examples. This phrase is found
only once in the entire Bible and it is a translation of the greek
phrase "that sabbath was a big day". That supports my theory, not
yours. Any Sabbath that coincided with a Jewish festival day would
indeed be "big".
PASTOR DAVE
They made note of it in that way, because it wasn't the
normal seventh day Sabbath that was approaching. It is
very important to understand, that the seventh day was
not the only day called a "Sabbath", nor did a
"Sabbath" have to fall on the seventh day of the week.
DAVID LEE
If they had wanted people to understand that the day that followed the
crucifixion was not the weekly sabbath they would have said "This was
not the weekly Sabbath" or "this was a high day" and omit any
confusing referecnces to the Sabbath, or even called it "one of the
annual Sabbaths". Instead, the gospel writers referred to it as "the"
Sabbath, and only one day in the Bible fits that category. The weekly
Sabbath.
PASTOR DAVE
The seventh day Sabbath did, of course, but as I said,
it was not the only Sabbath. And note it says, "the
preparation". Preparation for what?
DAVID LEE
Preparation for two things: 1) the weekly Sabbath, and 2) the days of
Unleavened Bread.
In regards to 1) above, see Martydom of Polycarp 7:1 where
"Preparation" in the Greek is translated "Friday" by Lightfoot, and
Josephus Antiquities xvi. 6. 2. 163 where he makes reference to the
Preparation of the Sabbath. The Martydom of Polycarp can be accessed
at
http://wesley.nnc.edu/noncanon/fathers/ante-nicene/polycarp/pol/mart/htm
By the way, The Martydom of Polycarp takes place in February and the
day Polycarp was murdered was called a "high day" twice (8:1 and 21:1)
and the greek word there is "big". Now it certainly wasn't referring
to a Jewish festival, but the fact that something "big" was happening
that day. The death of a great and respected leader of the early
Church was taking place so it was deemed "mega" or significant. It had
nothing to do with holy days.
PASTOR DAVE
The fact is, that in that week, there were three
Sabbath Days in a row. Read the related passages.
Leviticus 23:2-7
2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto
them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall
proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my
feasts.
3) Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is
the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do
no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all
your dwellings.
4) These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy
convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is
the LORD's passover.
6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the
feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye
must eat unleavened bread.
7) In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation:
ye shall do no servile work therein.
Three Sabbaths are mentioned here and for all three, it
says that they "shall do no servile work therein".
1) The Seventh Day Sabbath
2) The Passover Sabbath
3) The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread
Sabbath.
DAVID LEE
Stop wasting bandwidth. The only Sabbath you got right was the weekly
Sabbath. Notice that although the Sabbath can be classified as a holy
convocation not all holy convocations can be called a Sabbath. Read
Levitcus 23:38 again, and notice the separation in Leviticus 23: 3,4.
Just like all New Yorkers are Americans, but not all Americans are New
Yorkers, all Sabbaths were holy convocations but not all holy
convocations were Sabbaths. Again, you are commiting the logical
fallacy of hasty generalization. Look it up in a logic book. A good
logic book will explain better than I can why hasty generalization is
not a good, or valuable argument.
PASTOR DAVE
They were all Sabbaths and Jesus was in the grave for
three Sabbath Days in a row. Those who claim He was
crucified on Friday, are assuming only one Sabbath (the
seventh day Sabbath).
DAVID LEE
No, they are not assuming anything. They have the evidence on their
side. You have none.
PASTOR DAVE
How do we know the three Sabbaths apply? Look at what
is written in the Gospel of John.
"Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of
judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went
not into the judgment hall, lest they should be
defiled; but that they might eat the passover."
- John 18:28
DAVID LEE
Which, if Jesus died on the evening of Abib 14, then Abib 15 was
called the Passover by John., but not the Sabbath. Now, since John
considered the next day the first day of unleavened bread, and since
he and the other gospel writers Jesus died the day before the weekly
Sabbath, it becomes clear as a bell that that Sabbath would be "big".
Q.E.D.
PASTOR DAVE
It does not say "the Seventh Day Sabbath", nor does it
just say, "the Sabbath", but rather, it says, "the
Passover".
DAVID LEE
It doesn't say "the high day Sabbath" or "the first of the annual
Sabbaths" but the passover. Neither did he say it was "the passover,
considered by the Jews to be a Sabbath Day." No, John clearly did not
reckon the passover as an equivalent to the Sabbath Day. It was only
because the passover was falling on the same day as the weekly Sabbath
that he mentioned the haste to bury Jesus. Had it been merely the
passover and not the weekly Sabbath, there would have been no need to
rush to bury Jesus as Abib 15 forbad only servile work and burials
were permitted.
PASTOR DAVE
Jesus would be dead and in the tomb, before
the FIRST Sabbath, which was the Passover Sabbath.
Are we to forget that He was the "Passover Lamb" and
that the very first Passover Lamb was a symbol of the
coming crucified Christ? Does the tradition of
churches wanting Him on the cross on a Friday, replace
the truth? How can we forget such an important fact as
this? Look at John 19:31.
DAVID LEE
I covered this in excruciating detail in an earlier post I made two or
three days ago. Please go back and reread it. If you cannot find it on
your server, then go to Google Groups, type my email address in the
box provided and you will find it. Heather, my friend, also wrote a
reply and you can type in heatherthompson4 into the box provided and
read her post on this issue of the "Passover Lamb". You so far have
shown gross negligence in reading other people's posts. I really doubt
you are much of a practicing christian. You sure don't show the fruits
of one. You are a master of evasion and just ignore what you cannot
answer then have the gall to repost the same old arguments over and
over as if no one had never replied to them.
PASTOR DAVE
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,
that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the
sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,).."
- John 19:31
There is your "great day". The Sabbath that they had
to get Him buried before, was not the Seventh Day
Sabbath, but the Passover Sabbath, which is why it was
called "an high day".
DAVID LEE
Notice, again, it was "the" Sabbath that was a great day. John was
stressing the Sabbath, not the first day of unleavened bread. Why?
Because if it had been just the first day of unleavened bread at stake
here, there would have been no rush to bury Jesus. But the Jews knew
it was the Sabbath drawing on and it was a very big Sabbath at that.
Joseph buried him nearby because it was the preparation day and the
tomb was availible. And we know from Luke 23 the sabbath was drawing
on quickly. If it had been merely the first day of unleavened bread
(without the weekly sabbath) there would have been no need to rush
getting him off the cross either.
PASTOR DAVE
Now, could the Passover that year have occurred on a
Saturday? Absolutely not. Why? Simple. The day
after Passover would have been the first day of the
Feast of Unleavened Bread and would have also been a
Sabbath, in which they were not allowed to do, "any
servile work therein". Therefore, they would not have
been able to come to the tomb on that day carrying
spices. Note Luke 24:1.
DAVID LEE
Since the first day of unleavened bread was not a sabbath, it is
irrelevant. And since it forbad only servile work, it wouldn't matter
anyway.
PASTOR DAVE
"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the
morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the
spices which they had prepared, and certain others with
them. " - Luke 24:1
Therefore, the Passover could NOT have fallen on a
Saturday, since the first day of the week would have to
be a day in which they could do work, since carrying
the spices would have been considered work to them
DAVID LEE
Even if it were a Sabbath, it forbad only servile work, thus your
point is irrelevant. Some of the women had already witnessed the body
greased with one hundred pounds of spices on Friday night so it is
doubtful they had to exert themselves very much. It was only servile
work that was forbidden anyway.
PASTOR DAVE
(note John 5:10) and the day after Passover would have
been, as I said, the first day of the Feast of
Unleavened Bread and they would not have been able to
do work on that day (Leviticus 23:7) and it would also
have been a "Sabbath".
Take a closer look at the passages mentioned earlier
and let's focus on two of them.
Leviticus 23:5-6
5) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is
the LORD's passover.
DAVID LEE
Not a Sabbath.
PASTOR DAVE
6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the
feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye
must eat unleavened bread.
DAVID LEE
Not a Sabbath.
PASTOR DAVE
1) The Passover Sabbath began at evening on the 14th
day of the first month.
DAVID LEE
Only if there was a weekly Sabbath with which it could coincide.
PASTOR DAVE
2) The Feast of Unleavened Bread Sabbath was the next
day, on the 15th day of the first month.
3) The weekly Seventh Day Sabbath was the next day.
There you have it, three Sabbath Days in a row. Jesus
was not crucified on a Friday, nor does the Bible say,
nor indicate in any manner that He was.
DAVID LEE
The Bible does not say, nor indicate in any manner, he was crucified
on a Wednesday.
PASTOR DAVE
Jesus did not say that He would be in the grave for
pieces and parts of three days. He said, "three days
AND three nights, period.
DAVID LEE
Exactly. So why don't you do your duty (Deuteronomy 18:18-22)
PASTOR DAVE
"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the
whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days
and three nights in the heart of the earth."
- Matthew 12:40
Now, you either believe what He said, or you state that
He didn't know what He was talking about, in which
case, you have no cause to read the Bible, nor to claim
to be a believer, since you would be stating that you
believe a liar,
DAVID LEE
well, duh, if he was a false prophet, what business do YOU have to
tell anyone what to do. It is YOU that needs to straighten up your
act. Suppose a Muslim tried the same shit with you, telling you if you
believed Mohammed did not speak the truth, you had no reason to even
read the Koran or to teach other Muslims that they were in error.
Since you would be claiming that Mohammed was a liar, or he didn't
know what he was talking about, your faith would be in vain????
PASTOR DAVE
or at the very least, someone who
didn't know what he was talking about and therefore,
your faith is in vain. Your choice. But the facts
show that He DID know what He was talking about and
that you're simply holding some church's doctrine over
the truth of God.
DAVID LEE
It has been shown that YOU are the one who cannot hold to scriptural
truth and instead you follow a tradition of the Pharisees and reject
the Bible's own teaching to avoid what you perceive an embarrassing
situtation.
PASTOR DAVE
No offense, as I'm sure it was done
in ignorance. I'm just being direct. If you choose to
continue on proclaiming that He was crucified on a
Friday, thereby saying that He was wrong, then your sin
be upon you.
DAVID LEE
Are you saying that you are NOT saved by grace? Does a christian who
accepts Jesus goes to hell because he holds to the Friday crucifixion?
Are you saved by works? What exactly do you believe?
PASTOR DAVE
At the very least, this should prompt you
to investigate. Remember, what we have been taught
isn't relevant. What a church says isn't relevant.
What God says is. And He gave us His Holy written word
and it covers this issue quite well. Let us correct
ourselves and not try to correct God.
DAVID LEE
Then start doing it. Jettison the silly idea about a Wednesday
crucifixion. Then I'll start believing more of what you say.