On Moore's "Twilight" treatment: too rough?
Kirk Is
Superheroes"...I've always enjoyed comic story arc summaries (sometimes
better than the comics themselves) and this was thought provoking.
Now, I'm no moralist, (and I'm not a hardcore comics fan either) but I was
wondering if some of the details could ever possibly fly...in particular,
Plastic Man as a gigolo (I kind of prefered Miller's use of Elongated Man
in DK2...and given how much more powerful Plas is, it made more sense) and
especially the
[SPOILER for "Twilight of the Superheroes"]
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the idea of Captain Marvel's alterego Billy, an adult mind frustrated
sexually by being trapped in a boys body, getting into somewhat hardcore
BDSM play. Especially given that this was over a decade ago, before some
of the darker comics emerged (I think...my knowledge of trends is sketchy)
Would that have ever flown for DC? Could they have watered a detail like
that down? (It was pretty central to the plot...)
--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
Indeed, the Russians' predisposition for quiet reflection followed by
sudden preventive action explains why they led the field for many
years in both chess and ax murders. --Marshall Brickman, Playboy 4/73
Fred Perry
"Kirk Is" <kirk...@alienbill.com> wrote in message
news:0swB9.316$Y2.1...@news.tufts.edu...
> boingboing.net showed a way of getting to Alan Moore's "Twilight of the
> Superheroes"...I've always enjoyed comic story arc summaries (sometimes
> better than the comics themselves) and this was thought provoking.
>
Try going to google.com and searching the archives for this newsgroup for
references to "twilight". It comes up fairly regularly.
Kirk Is
I have, I didn't see any references about the strong sexual implications
of that, and if that tied into why it was never made.
--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
"Aww Kate, nothing's corny if it gets you some." --Drew Carey
Fred Perry
> Fred Perry <saq...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > "Kirk Is" <kirk...@alienbill.com> wrote in message
> > news:0swB9.316$Y2.1...@news.tufts.edu...
> >> boingboing.net showed a way of getting to Alan Moore's "Twilight of the
> >> Superheroes"...I've always enjoyed comic story arc summaries (sometimes
> >> better than the comics themselves) and this was thought provoking.
> >>
>
> > Try going to google.com and searching the archives for this newsgroup
for
> > references to "twilight". It comes up fairly regularly.
>
> I have, I didn't see any references about the strong sexual implications
> of that, and if that tied into why it was never made.
Didn't say it did. Was offering you a resource of earlier discussions on
something you had interest in as a friendly sort of act. Notice my snipping
did not include your thoughts on it nor did my suggestion refer to them.
Kirk Is
> for
>> > references to "twilight". It comes up fairly regularly.
>>
>> I have, I didn't see any references about the strong sexual implications
>> of that, and if that tied into why it was never made.
> Didn't say it did. Was offering you a resource of earlier discussions on
> something you had interest in as a friendly sort of act. Notice my snipping
> did not include your thoughts on it nor did my suggestion refer to them.
Oh! Sorry.
And actually, I took your suggestion anyway, repeated my search but
focused more on Billy, and got into some interesting old threads on
Miller's DK2 (which I'm not as down on as a lot of folks, though agreee
that the first issue had a lot more potential than the rest of the series
lived up to).
So I dunno if anyone has an opinion on my first topic, to refocus it, was
there anything as "adult" as what Alan Moore was proposing in "Twilight"
at the time in a mainstream comic at the time? Or could they have softened
it in the actual comic?
--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
"SANTA HAS A TUMOR IN HIS HEAD THE SIZE OF AN OLIVE. MAYBE IT WILL GO
AWAY TOMORROW BUT I DON'T THINK SO."
--sign language by Crumpet the Macy's SantaLand Elf (David Sedaris)
Bob Hughes
wrote:
The thing that killed it (I would think) would be the reference to sex
between Billy and Mary- who, after all, are brother and sister.
There's no way that would have played in a DC comic even for Vertigo
today.
By the way, have you ever heard of a novel called "Super Folks" by
Robert Mayer? While not accusing Moore or anyone else of plagiarism,
the entire dark, sexual super-hero genre started there.
Onimar Synn
> By the way, have you ever heard of a novel called "Super Folks" by
> Robert Mayer? While not accusing Moore or anyone else of plagiarism,
> the entire dark, sexual super-hero genre started there.
Any superhero comics fan who is not familiar with that book should probably
get acquainted with it, as it has ostensibly had a rather large impact on
the direction of comics over the past few decades.
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/blaklion/superfolks.html
Scott Dubin
I think Vertigo could get away with it. In an issue of the Invisibles
we are treated to scenes of King Mob having sex with his sister.
(Though both the sister and the sex are entirely imaginary.)
Prestorjon
for Christmas this year, but he hasn't read comics for about 12 years. Would
he be completely lost, or do you think that he'll be able to follow it OK?
Thanks for all responses!
>>
What's mainstream? Elementals was about the time the treatment was done and
they were pretty raw. I think it was a few years after that that they had the
Elementals Sex Specials and things like Morningstar finding out her fiancee was
actually Shapeshifter in disguise but Elementals was always pretty adult for a
superhero comic.
-----------------
He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things
We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do,
The fears of years, like a biting whip,
Had cut deep bloody grooves
Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Prestorjon
Robert Mayer? While not accusing Moore or anyone else of plagiarism,
the entire dark, sexual super-hero genre started there.>>
Haven;t read it but the idea of darker superhero stories had been percolating
for a while (and in fact a lot of golden age stuff is, perhaps unintentionally,
very dark by todays standards). IIRc this was the time we were getting things
like Speedy doing drugs and such, also IIRC by that time we had George RR
Martin and the other Albuquerque wrtiers percolating the idea for Wild Cards.