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hale-bopp as 3600-year Marduk (nephilim & tiamat)

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Eliyah

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Dec 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/27/96
to

>Elijah,
>Maybe I meant Tiamat?
>What do you think of the giants (nephiliim) who ruled the earth before the
>man-kind arrived?
>Greg

No you are correct, it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now destroyed
with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.
The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth. However, when planets
set into the west horizon they are written down as colliding with the earth (soil).
And as explained below the circle or serpent or dragon is the horizon splitting
our 3D spherical world in two, yet confused with Draco which circles. Further,
Sitchin's years are known to be years which actual conjunctions took place.
A conjunction of venus and Mars doesnt mean they rammed each other.
Though I will admit that ramming seems quite aprapro for cultures who referred to
these conjunctions as intercourse. Mind you though Babylon worshipped
Mars ramming venus, other cultures like Greece worshipped Jupiter ramming Mars.
Planets are wanderers, so it would be a shame if the Greeks thought this ramming
was an edict from the original wanderers (Chaldean hebrews).
I think we know Greek culture enough to know that answer.

As with all intersections they can be
either literal or just visual. It is our speech which brings confusion.
At this time of year the sun gets close to Capricorn, now you dont think
that maybe this time it is too close and will pull those stars into the sun
do you? Of course not, it is only visually close in angular distance. And
when the sun passes over those stars, it is not really engulfing them.

Copy, keep, save, publish, any graph from my site.
Tiamat is the horizon which circles the earth dividing it into two spheres.
But since circles are also called serpents or dragons, many viewed Tiamat
as Draco which never sets but continually rotates in the north.
An example is the yellow road and white road and blue road in China.
The Maya called the ecliptic path a two-headed blue dragon which swallows the sun
and regurgitates it out the other head.

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/astronomy/2009tiamat.gif
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/astronomy/2009marduk.gif
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/astronomy/2009babel.gif
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel.gif
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel2.GIF
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF
Marduk Street is observed not from Marduk's temple but from the Tower.

Nephilim?
Crossbreeding can only occur with male dominants and female recipients
such as a male horse and a female donkey creating a very larger-than-donkey
very strong sterile male mule.
The Nephilim having angel fathers but human mothers
were male, sterile, very large and strong. They were the sons
of the kings, the angels who ruled, having come from heaven. Atmospheric
formula for materilization is no longer the same, and the angels who have
since materilized certainly arent about to give it to them. These angels
now proving themselves demons are reserved for binding for 1000 years.
It is why they wish to defend themselves by increasing spiritistic interest
among humans so that they can pass their blame onto the gullibility of humans.

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/histry/preFludkngs.GIF
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/histry/preFludkngs2.GIF

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,
(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif

Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

Garrison Netzel

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Dec 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/28/96
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On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:25:28 +0000, Eliyah wrote...<nothing coherent>

Hey again, Richie! How've you been? Do you still believe the
world's going to end in March?


--
Garrison Netzel
do...@faribault.polaristel.net
http://homepage.usr.com/g/garrison/
-----------------------------------


John P. Boatwright

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Dec 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/28/96
to

Garrison Netzel wrote:
>
> Hey again, Richie! How've you been? Do you still believe the
> world's going to end in March?

Won't end in March, just major changes begin to happen. Enjoy.

Dick Eney

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Dec 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/28/96
to

In article <32C4A1...@mail.teleport.com>,

This yarn about visitors from space has been going around for a fair spell
now, including a prophecy that They would make mass landings some time in
the 17 September - 17 December time frame. By great good luck I was able
to make some personal observations of what really happened to them...

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AT THE DEADLINE

Some people have been wondering just what did take place on
December 17th, the deadline by which several interstellar races
were to appear, neutralize all human weaponry, and institute a
general reign of passivity. Well, it so happens I was Senior
Watch Officer here at the Agency for the whole week of the 12th
through the 19th, and though this Department wasn't directly
involved the Planetary Defense Corps kept us up to date lest some
problem with the assorted national governments arise.

That business with the mysterious companion of Comet Hale-Bopp
was a fake, as you probably guessed -- it was intended to provoke
anyone with unauthorized third-order detection gear to blow their
cover by taking a look at the "thing". As it turned out, other
equipment did take a look, but it was only the Israelis, the
Knights Templar, the Si-Fan and the Lemurians. We knew about them
already -- no problem.

So Friday the 13th rolled around with the PDC on alert at DEFCON
III (Defense Condition III), the other hidden groups warned to
stay clear if anything got out of hand, and our operatives on
duty at the various national governments' military installations
to be sure no intercepts went out to mundane officials who
shouldn't be getting them. And about 16:30 US East Coast Time
the pips we'd expected started showing up, about 260 light-years
out and closing at normal cruising speed so as not to trigger any
Cerenkov flares in the tachyon fields.

On Saturday evening they were a few million miles beyond the
orbit of Pluto and had dropped to sub-light speeds so we could
get good identification on them: a twelve-ship Orion squadron,
twenty-two big Pleiadian mother ships, and more than two hundred
of those pesky little Reticulan atmosphere-capable flitters that
the Greys use. They weren't screening, which was reassuring --
not that they knew yet that their screens didn't work on our
latest equipment, but they were deliberately trying to show us
that they meant no treacherous surprise.

Just after midnight Saturday/Sunday Bimini Control sent them a
message in both Interstellar Code and straight language:

FSB FSB FSB
YOU SHOULD STOP. I HAVE IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

This produced the first worrisome reaction. The Pleiadians
slowed to a few thousand miles per second; the Orion squadron
matched their movement but also fanned out to take stations
around the Pleiadians (from our point of view). The Greys,
however, kept right on coming, and soon opened out a considerable
lead on the others.

There was a rapid exchange of messages that we only partially
picked up between all the elements of the fleet from space:
apparently the Pleiadian Minister of Communication was on board
one of the mother ships, and as the highest ranking being with
the fleet was trying to direct its movements. The Greys,
however, claimed that since he wasn't one of _their_ officers
they didn't have to obey him. The commander of the Orion
squadron was asking for permission to catch up to the Greys to,
he said, give protection. The Greys said they didn't need
protection. The Orion commander pointedly ignored this remark
and had a short polite argument with the Minister, during which
our Intelligence people got an ID on him and we realized that the
Orion squadron was a Battle Group of their regular Navy.

By the time this got sorted out (the Orions decided to keep
station with the Pleiadian squadron) somebody from the Apex
Council was on the line and explained to the space fleet that we
appreciated their concern, but we were going to work our way out
of the current mess ourselves or die trying. (I thought he could
have phrased that a little differently, but nobody was asking
me.) The Pleiadians were quite taken aback and said they'd have
to phone home for instructions. The Orion squadron gave a short,
deep exclamation of "HO!" Some day we'll have to find out why
they use so many Amerind expressions.

The Greys, however, kept right on coming. This was about 09:30
Sunday morning, now, and they were not much beyond the orbit of
Mars. We focussed a detector from the Agharti Station on them by
way of a hint that we weren't ignoring their behavior, and PDC
scrambled the B-2s and the entire force at Area 51 before beaming
another code-plus-language message at them:

DMM DMM DMM
HEAVE TO!

This produced another mixed reaction. The Pleiadians slowed
still further, while the Orion squadron blipped into FTL and
jumped into a position interposing their ships -- and defensive
screens -- between the Pleiadians and us, and to hell with the
tachyon static that caused. (If your computer crashed about the
middle of the day on Sunday, that's probably why.) A little
annoying, but they were clearly protecting the mother ships from
any outbreak of violence.

The Greys also did a blip into FTL and came out only 80,000 miles
away from Earth. We went to DEFCON II at the same time, but
fortunately the Greys weren't as used to these maneuvers as the
Orion fleet was. Flitterships popped out of hyperspace scattered
in all directions and they had to stop and regroup before doing
anything else. A repeat of our message to the Pleiadians was
beamed at them and got the reply that the Greys didn't recognize
our right to make such decisions.

The Apex Council speaker made an unparliamentary comment and gave
PDC the word to go to DEFCON I. The Greys, who were trying to
get into some sort of formation, broke into a gabble of internal
messages which started with several of them trying to take
charge. (It's nice to know that the Greys are just as nasty to
each other as they are to us.) But when the Lemurian power
crystal under Mount Shasta tuned to them, our "aircraft" turned
on their _internal_ Stealth equipment and vanished from their
detection screens, and the HAARP transmitter came on line a lot
of the Greys started demanding to know who had gotten them into
this mess. By this time they were orbiting in a sort of ragged
disk about 50,000 miles over the Gulf of California, with what we
took to be their command group in the middle and trying to get
the others to make a regular globe. They were starting to do so
and beginning to descend toward Earth when they got our third
general message:

ZCZ ZCZ ZCZ
HEAVE TO OR I WILL FIRE!

Then both the Greys and ourselves were surprised. In one of the
prettiest pieces of space maneuvering anyone ever saw, six Orion
ships popped out of hyperspace after an FTL jump from near the
orbit of Saturn, and materialized around the Greys' command
group, enclosing it in a three-dimensional box. Then they began
to press inward. The Grey commanders, pretty much every man for
himself, backed away -- an Orion space cruiser is about twenty
times as big as those Reticulan flitters, and nothing to butt
heads with. But either ramming or making the Greys collide with
one another wasn't what the Orion group had in mind. (Not with
the Pleiadians watching, anyway; the confrontation might not have
been so bloodless otherwise.) Once the Grey command group was in
a tight cluster and the Orions' protective screens were touching
one another, the Orions made a coordinated jump that took them
_and_the_Greys_they_had_surrounded_ back out of the Solar System.

Without their leaders and their coordination, the other Greys
turned tail and went into FTL themselves. The Orions and the
Pleiadians transmitted a long message in the usual fuzzy Pleiadian style -
I swear, they are the only race I know of that sound like they're
channelling when they make casual conversation. That's when we sprang the
second surprise we'd stored up for this eventuality. The HAARP
transmitter beamed an energy pulse at them and all their loudspeakers --
even the internal PA systems -- started repeating the complete works of
Kahlil Gibran. I learned later than somebody put a stopwatch on it and it
was just 19'22" before the Pleiadians begged for mercy. The Orion
squadron never did, but I notice they kept right up with the mother ships
when these accelerated out of our System, not hanging back a bit.

The Pleiadian message wasn't decoded at our Operations Center, but
those who understood it beamed so smugly that we had to find out what it
was. This took several days and at least two good ole beer busts, which
is why I've been so long getting the information to _you_. The
gist was that we'd see them again. Next time,
though, there won't be so much of the wise-missionary-teaches-the
-cannibal-tribesmen in their attitude. And, if we continue to
play our cards right, they may even realize that we aren't cannibal
tribesmen just because some of our attitudes don't jibe with theirs.

Anyway, that's why the big landing never did come off, and if you
saw any stories about weird sights appearing over the
southwestern desert in North America the afternoon of December
15th, now you know what really happened. Just thought you'd like
to be sure.

-- Dick Eney


Garrison Netzel

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Dec 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/28/96
to

On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:26:24 +0000, John P. Boatwright wrote...

>
>Garrison Netzel wrote:
>>
>> Hey again, Richie! How've you been? Do you still believe the
>> world's going to end in March?
>
>Won't end in March, just major changes begin to happen. Enjoy.

You're in league with Richie on the "astral impact" thing? No big
surprise. It might surprise YOU, however, to learn where Richie got that
March 24th date from. (Hint, an article published in Reader's Digest which
was a fictional account of what would happen if an asteroid struck the earth.
It said right in the preface that the date of March 24th, 1997 was selected
completely at random, but somehow our our not-too-stable friend latched onto
that date as though it were truth. The article was published on his old
website. I don't know if it's still there, though.) Was that enough of a hint
for you?


--
Garrison Netzel
do...@faribault.polaristel.net
-----------------------------------


g...@3-cities.com

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Dec 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/29/96
to

"John P. Boatwright" <sa...@mail.teleport.com> wrote:

>Won't end in March, just major changes begin to happen. Enjoy.

Is that when you leave alt.atheism?

Or do you get a new dress?

Geo


John P. Boatwright

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Dec 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/29/96
to

Garrison Netzel wrote:
>
> On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:26:24 +0000, John P. Boatwright wrote...
> >
> >Garrison Netzel wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey again, Richie! How've you been? Do you still believe the
> >> world's going to end in March?
> >
> >Won't end in March, just major changes begin to happen. Enjoy.
>
> You're in league with Richie on the "astral impact" thing?

Grow a brain. The comet comes closest to earth maybe 1.35AU. How do
you get an impact????

> No big
> surprise. It might surprise YOU, however, to learn where Richie got that
> March 24th date from.

I don't know Richie.

> (Hint, an article published in Reader's Digest which
> was a fictional account of what would happen if an asteroid struck the earth.
> It said right in the preface that the date of March 24th, 1997 was selected
> completely at random, but somehow our our not-too-stable friend latched onto
> that date as though it were truth. The article was published on his old
> website. I don't know if it's still there, though.) Was that enough of a hint
> for you?
>
> --
> Garrison Netzel
> do...@faribault.polaristel.net
> -----------------------------------

As far as the Mar 24 date, thats from the 3rd blood red moon to
occur this Israeli year directly over comet hale-bopp. It's under
the constelation virgo with Dracos "the dragon" directly over.
Virgo has 12 stars as a crown as in Revelation in the bible. This
new moon also requires 5 sacrifices which will set off the whole
world's animal rights activists. The anti-Christ is also to show
up 1290 day's after the peace agreement (3.5 year false peace in
Israel, then 3.5 years of interesting stuff). The 1290 day's added
gives March 26, 1997.

Let's not forget either that Hale-Bopp IS THE BIGGEST COMET THIS
CENTURY, and last time here was before recorded history. It also
spins with it's axis towards Earth (hey, thats cool) and shoots
out massive plumes like a pinwheel (size of the earth or more).
You'd swear God is sending a major flare given:

Mar 22, 1997 Hale-Bopp closest approach.
Mar 24, 1997 Blood red moon over Hale-Bopp visible in Jerusalem.
This new moon requires 5! animal sacrifices. First
time required in Israel's history.
Mar 26, 1997 1290 day's after peace agreement signed, anti-Christ
insists on "ambomination of desolation". 1290 is in
the bible.
Apr 01, 1997 Comet Hale-Bopp gets yanked fairly well by the sun's
gravity as it hits it's fastest speed and course
change. Does it break up? Can it handle the stress?
Apr 22, 1997 Meteor showers typically, some years have been pretty
bad. God apparently can use this time to tweek those
against him?
May 10, 1997 Israeli's are blessed. 1335 days after agreement
in bible.
Jan XX, 1998 Earth passes thru remains of path of comet Hale-Bopp
traveled (lets hope for no remains eh?).
Dec 31, 1999 Sancuary and host are trodden under foot. 2300
days after peace agreement (in bible).
May 7, 2000 All 7 visible bodies (including the moon) are arranged
in a line. First time in history this has occured.

Of course I could be wrong, oh well.

don

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Dec 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/29/96
to
***********
What has all the above mumbo-jumbo to do with archeology?


John the ForeRunner

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Jan 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/4/97
to don

don wrote:
> What has all the above mumbo-jumbo to do with archeology?

The cunieform texts containing the posted kinglists and
the 3600-day sar (confused by Berosus as 3600-year shar)
were archeologically dug up.
Become an archeologist will know this.

> > >Elijah,
> > >Maybe I meant Tiamat?
> > >What do you think of the giants (nephiliim) who ruled the earth before the
> > >man-kind arrived?
> > >Greg

John the ForeRunner

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Jan 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/4/97
to

I doubt this reply will ever induce Netzel to quit his style of false allegations.
Isn't it remarkable that Reader's Digest publishes an analogy in 1989 to
illustrate a comet impact on March 23 of 1997, and here a comet comes along
to make the biggest show on that date for those currently living!
I wonder how Netzel thinks I got this date in 1983 from a 1989 book !

Garrison Netzel wrote:
> You're in league with Richie on the "astral impact" thing? No big


> surprise. It might surprise YOU, however, to learn where Richie got that

> March 24th date from. (Hint, an article published in Reader's Digest which


> was a fictional account of what would happen if an asteroid struck the earth.
> It said right in the preface that the date of March 24th, 1997 was selected
> completely at random, but somehow our our not-too-stable friend latched onto
> that date as though it were truth. The article was published on his old
> website. I don't know if it's still there, though.) Was that enough of a hint
> for you?

> Garrison Netzel
> do...@faribault.polaristel.net

The prophecy of Daniel's 7 weeks to restore the NEW CITY
(82-year Jerusalem from 537-455 BC)
regarded as 49 years (7x 7y) from 455 BC to an unverified 406 BC
can also be regarded as Jubilees so that these 49 jubilees begin
a 50th jubilee for every date of Ezra, Esther, Nehemiah, and the
restoration prophets as 1914-1996 AD in reference to Jesus' Church
as being the Restored Jerusalem, the NEW CITY, the second coming
of the Son Of Man.
This means that the 1000 years begins on Rosh Hashana
and that Armageddon begins its year long destruction
either on Yom Kippur 96 or Passover 97.
Passover 97 is March 23 Palm Sunday as the day of salvation
determining WHO survives the global yearlong destruction.
I discovered this in 1983 which is 6 years before Reader's Digest
published their March 23 of 1997 date in 1989. Every liar is a false prophet.
Netzel's lying intention to claim the Digest as my origin of prophecy is thus
what makes him a false leader not to listen to. Look at his presumption.
Will he stand corrected as I humbly do when seeing correction?
[BTW, forcing another to admit false allegations is NOT correction.]
The Armageddon source being heavenly was determined not merely as a stone out
of heaven (Daniel) but as a natural force whose date of impact could not be
altered forward or back (later or sooner) with human repentence
as would be the case with pollution or nuclear missles. God is not slow,
it will not be LATE, (meaning it will occur on time). Thus the days cut short
does not indicate a date move. It indicates that persecution is cut by the
unmovable date so that the flesh owe the holy ones for cutting the
persecution short. Sacrifice by the holy ones is what will cut the
persecution off of the great crowd of flesh who is spared.
Astral evidence was also implied thru scholars who have referred to
both the Flood and the parted Red Sea as astral events.
*The passing over and near-miss of Earth by an asteroid on
March 23 of 1989* seven years before 1996 became my sign that Passover
was the choice. Since then God has chosen March twice more times
as omens of closest astral display to the world.
Garrison Netzel fabricates by saying it was random.
Reader's Digest clearly states that the date March 23 of 1997 in its
1989 publication (note it being published the year of the near-miss)
was a revision from the original story which used March 23 of 1987.
In wanting to keep the sense of concern for asteroids, they wanted a future
date. But do not regard this as NOTHING. Do not scoff.
The week after China Syndrome was released with Jack Lemon and
Jane Fonda warning of nuclear plants, the 3 mile island plant
released a radiation cloud into the air. So too your own scholars who
say not to listen to my wolf-cries are yet telling you to listen to them
because someday an asteroid WILL strike. Dont be surprised when
it is March 24.

g...@3-cities.com

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Jan 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/5/97
to

John the ForeSkin <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>I doubt this reply will ever induce Netzel to quit his style of false allegations.

Maybe not.

But nothing will stop you from your delusional rants either.

Geo


g...@3-cities.com

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Jan 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/5/97
to

John the ForeSkin <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>Become an archeologist will know this.

And ForeSkin is an archelogist?

Not possible.

Geo


Gilgamesh

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
to

Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>>Elijah,
>>Maybe I meant Tiamat?

>No you are correct, it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which


>arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now destroyed
>with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

>The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth.

Half of Tiamat is the Earth. The other half the asteroid belt,
comets, and asteroids, all of which, including the earth, have water.
Thus there is no Oortt Cloud to mention, though mainstream science
still contends this. Thus the arrival of larger comets, Hale-Bopp,
may be a precursor of things to come.
The Epic of Creation is where the account of this battle is found.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Martin Fox

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
to John the ForeRunner

John the ForeRunner wrote:
>

A lot snipped.



> So too your own scholars who
> say not to listen to my wolf-cries are yet telling you to listen to them
> because someday an asteroid WILL strike. Dont be surprised when
> it is March 24.

So tell me where to hide? Will under my desk do? That is what they
taught us to do in Los Angeles during school earthquake drills. Then
came Pearl Harbor and we were taught the same drill for air raids. I
believe a later cohort was taght this drill for H- and A-bobmb drill.

>
> ************
> A voice crying out and going unheard,
> (40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24

Any old Tishri 24?

> God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
> The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.

And I'm one of them. I know. You don't believe me.

> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif
>
> Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

Have you been reading Usher lately?

Martin Fox

Michelle Malkin

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Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

g...@3-cities.com wrote:

>Not possible.

>Geo

You mean you've never heard of the world famous archaeologist Alphonse Pierre
Fouresquin? He was the one who found both missing briss foreskin burial places
hidden for centuries just outside the ruined and buried walls of ancient Israel
and Judah. Even the Assyrians didn't know where they were or they would have
destroyed the sites. Jeeze, Geo, I thought everyone knew that! ;-)

Mickey
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on
her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness
even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more
approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

Thomas Jefferson to his nephew Peter Carr - August 10, 1787
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Piotr Michalowski

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Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

Gilgamesh wrote:

>
> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,
backed up by completely silly linguistic nonsense and is hardly worth
any serious discussion. How about taking this thread off
sci.archaeology?

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to Gilgamesh

> Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=

destroyed
> >with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.
=

Gilgamesh wrote:
> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

=

> >The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth.

> Half of Tiamat is the Earth. The other half the asteroid belt,
> comets, and asteroids, all of which, including the earth, have water.
> Thus there is no Oortt Cloud to mention, though mainstream science
> still contends this. Thus the arrival of larger comets, Hale-Bopp,
> may be a precursor of things to come.
> The Epic of Creation is where the account of this battle is found.
> Gilgamesh
> Ovni Continuum

Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.
Tiamat is a person's 360=B0 sphere when standing on earth's surface.
The horizon splits it in two. Marduk has no moon in the myth.
Amazing that the whole story can be fabricated without previous
links to known mythology. Marduk has 24 orbits in 52 years
(24x 780-day Mars =3D 52x 360-day calendar New Year)
so how is it that Sitchin gives it a Shar (3600 years)
and claims these 24 orbits are 24 fateful years of Abram against Aram-Sin.

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,

(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24 =

God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to Martin Fox

>Readres Digest is a reliable source?

(Sorry if I'm sensitive. I explain why further down. But is that
your British spelling for reader? No need to answer, this is a dig
to show the emptiness of most posted questions and remarks I receive
in reply from EDU addresses.)
First, I am not the one who claimed my March 23 of 97
came from Reader's Digest, but rather one of your skeptic brothers who
do not mind lying to the world to destroy others reputations.
Every reply of his has been an invalid surface stereotyped opinion
of my words without really reading what they said or mean.

>At 04:41 PM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote:


>>>John the ForeRunner wrote:
>>>> So too your own scholars who
>>>> say not to listen to my wolf-cries are yet telling you to listen to them
>>>> because someday an asteroid WILL strike. Dont be surprised when
>>>> it is March 24.

>>>So tell me where to hide? Will under my desk do? That is what they
>>>taught us to do in Los Angeles during school earthquake drills. Then
>>>came Pearl Harbor and we were taught the same drill for air raids. I
>>>believe a later cohort was taght this drill for H- and A-bobmb drill.

>>Goes to show we all truly know the system gives us stupid things to do
>>claiming it will save us, when even a child can see it won't.
>>Two feature movies coming in February, one on volcanoes...so watch it
>>because the other is on asteroid which triggers them.

>By what laws of physics do asteroids tigger volcanic erruptions?

Forgive me if I choose here to be a strivial as you
and ask if you dropped an R in trigger. (I say this to show all
readers that skeptics always pick at small things like they did with Jesus,
while Jesus says the skeptics have no proof and dont even lift a finger
for their own evidence. Example: Egyptian pyramid astronomy...no specific
dates or years for their claims and yet scoffing at specific Bible years
which match exact dates of astronomy.)

>Why should I believe the fiction in two feature films? Are they based on
>some solid facts? Which?

As I have publicly posted before, China Syndrome was for entertainment.
You paid to see a story whose message is not entertaining. Yet 3-mile
island went off that fisrt week of movie release.

>>>Have you been reading Usher lately?
>>>Martin Fox

>>Usser's Adam is 4004 BC presuming 600 years til 1996-1997 AD

>Did you drop a zero?

(no I was using base 100, hehe)

>>The real Adam was 4025 BC, his mate 4005 BC, and their sin in 3955 BC.
>>Prophecy

>What prophecy?

>> indicates the 6000 years from Eve is correct because
>>it was their procreative purpose which was uprooted,

>Huh? They had Cain and Able and many more. As I recall the total is
>unspecified; it is only stated that they had sons and daughters.

(did you mispell Abel)
BTW the Jews kept much history which is not in the Bible.
[1]
Abram kept a 25-year (Nisan) lunar calendar from Isan he brought to Egypt at 75.
The foundation of Isan in 2018 BC recorded the moon in Egyptian dates.
In the 175 years of Abram, Nisan drifted back 44 leap days from July back
to May. When Babylon was founded in 1894 BC and celebrated its anniversary in
1893 BC, Abram mourned man's error and offered Isaac as sacrifice at
the age of 25 (309 moons spanning 25 Nisans)
[2] Jerusalem was taken on Sabbath years
[3] Eve had 56 children, 33 sons, 23 daughters, 1 son murdered
23 sons married 23 sisters, and 9 sons married 9 nieces.
Shall I go on....

>> and because
>>the 6000 years which end in 1975 AD do end in 1914 AD when retaining
>>the 360-day calendar since the 2370 BC Flood.
>>This 1914 AD is the 50th jubilee from 537 BC
>>as 1996 AD the 50th jubilee from 455 BC
>>(82 years to restore Jerusalem...the real true city of gathered
>>believers who survive while the earth dies in a global disaster.)

>You seem to believe that the Jewish calendar is a 360 day calendar. It is a
>lunar calendar, but has leap years in which an extra month is added. So
>there really havn't been that many Jubilees.
>Martin Fox

Not what I beleive but rather what was so. The 360-day calendar was not
disolved until Babylon was founded in 1894 BC. When it was dissolved,
the lunar calendar then used was the one Abram brought to Egypt in the
1st year of the 12th dynasty (1943 BC) at 75.
(300 lunar months plus 9 intercalary of 30 days = 9125 days)
Prior to that the 365-day calendar had not been created until 2030 BC
so that the devient 360-day calendar was used for 340 years from the Flood
despite its gaining 5 more years than reality. Because of this Noah
reached Adam's 930 twice (in 2044 BC and again in 2040 BC). The seasonal
one was accepted because Nahor of Ur had determined the winter solstice
at the Osiris new moon of Jan 6 of Haran's birth 2078 BC as 3600 moons
from the Flood (hoSaros which means the 3600). Yet Marduk admitted the
devient calendar year of 360 days by reckoning 2009 BC as 365 Sumerian yrs =
to 360 Egyptian years from the new moon Oct 6 of 2369 BC to July 8 of 2009 BC.
Your 19-year Jewish Sothic calendar (which cannot hold to the seasons if
you knew any math) had its 7 intercalary months added by Moses. It would
appear that Moses' Jubilees were Egyptian years 618 moons, yet the barley
harvest of Nisan had to be fixed by observation, and I would think his
predicting 10 plagues makes him quite observant of the facts. Especially
when in 1554 BC he reckonized that the Koiak May moon had become the
Koiak January moon in 475 years (120 leap days)
and disputed with Jannes who gets the credit by having the month named after him.

Is there perhaps more detail on calendars that you could give me
to convince me that this is merely a BELIEF of mine and not fact.
I like showing the world's errors, so how about if you list the
lunar new moons every 19 years from 2018 BC to present. Its only
211 dates nicely showing the 19-year calendar of the Jews is Julian and
NOT seasonal as claimed. (In fact it doesnt even stay with the Julian).
I think we need to display what you know before we knock what I know.

I presume EDU is faculty not student.
If you are faculty, I show how stupid you are.
Stupid is NOT how little a person knows, but how big their mouth is
of how much they know when they dont at all.
But if you are a student,
then my apologies for my insulting reply,
and consider yourself educated by what I said.

>>************
>>A voice crying out and going unheard,
>>(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24

>>God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
>>The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
>>http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif
>>

>>eli...@wi.net
>>http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/myPhoto.gif


>>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
>> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

--

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,
(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to Martin Fox

>I just realized that I had neglected to check your arithmetic below.

>>Usser's Adam is 4004 BC presuming 600 years til 1996-1997 AD.


>>The real Adam was 4025 BC, his mate 4005 BC, and their sin in 3955 BC.

>>Prophecy indicates the 6000 years from Eve is correct because
>>it was their procreative purpose which was uprooted, and because


>>the 6000 years which end in 1975 AD do end in 1914 AD when retaining
>>the 360-day calendar since the 2370 BC Flood.
>>This 1914 AD is the 50th jubilee from 537 BC
>>as 1996 AD the 50th jubilee from 455 BC
>>(82 years to restore Jerusalem...the real true city of gathered
>>believers who survive while the earth dies in a global disaster.)

>4005+1996=6001.
>There goes another doomsday prophecy sunk when the magic date has passed.
>Martin Fox

Sorry Martin, you obviously dont know the calendar.
It is 4004 yrs from 4005 BC to 1 BC (can you subtract).
It is 4005 yrs from 4005 BC to 1 AD (dont add, you'll be wrong).
And that is why
it is only 6000 yrs from 4005 BC to 1996 AD.
It is only 1995 years from 1 AD to 1996 AD.

I presume EDU is faculty not student.
If you are faculty, I show how stupid you are.
Stupid is NOT how little a person knows, but how big their mouth is
of how much they know when they dont at all.
But if you are a student,
then my apologies for my insulting reply,
and consider yourself educated by what I said.

***********

Martin Fox

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to John the ForeRunner

John the ForeRunner wrote:
>
> >Readres Digest is a reliable source?
>
> (Sorry if I'm sensitive. I explain why further down. But is that
> your British spelling for reader?

Just a typo. I'm American.

No need to answer, this is a dig
> to show the emptiness of most posted questions and remarks I receive
> in reply from EDU addresses.)
> First, I am not the one who claimed my March 23 of 97
> came from Reader's Digest,

Sorry, but what you posted sounded like Digest drivel.

> but rather one of your skeptic brothers who

Some of the best thinking has come from skeptics.

> do not mind lying to the world to destroy others reputations.
> Every reply of his has been an invalid surface stereotyped opinion
> of my words without really reading what they said or mean.
>
> >At 04:41 PM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>John the ForeRunner wrote:
> >>>> So too your own scholars who
> >>>> say not to listen to my wolf-cries are yet telling you to listen to them
> >>>> because someday an asteroid WILL strike. Dont be surprised when
> >>>> it is March 24.
>
> >>>So tell me where to hide? Will under my desk do? That is what they
> >>>taught us to do in Los Angeles during school earthquake drills. Then
> >>>came Pearl Harbor and we were taught the same drill for air raids. I
> >>>believe a later cohort was taght this drill for H- and A-bobmb drill.
>
> >>Goes to show we all truly know the system gives us stupid things to do
> >>claiming it will save us, when even a child can see it won't.
> >>Two feature movies coming in February, one on volcanoes...so watch it
> >>because the other is on asteroid which triggers them.
>
> >By what laws of physics do asteroids tigger volcanic erruptions?
>
> Forgive me if I choose here to be a strivial as you
> and ask if you dropped an R in trigger.

Seems that I did. Oops.

> (I say this to show all
> readers that skeptics always pick at small things like they did with Jesus,
> while Jesus says the skeptics have no proof and dont even lift a finger

Well if you are going to accuse me of picking on small things, note that
you missed an apostropgy.

> for their own evidence. Example: Egyptian pyramid astronomy...no specific
> dates or years for their claims and yet scoffing at specific Bible years
> which match exact dates of astronomy.)

Sounds like good scientific method. Don't give a date without evidence
to support it.

>
> >Why should I believe the fiction in two feature films? Are they based on
> >some solid facts? Which?
>
> As I have publicly posted before, China Syndrome was for entertainment.
> You paid to see a story whose message is not entertaining. Yet 3-mile
> island went off that fisrt week of movie release.

The China Syndrom was based on some solid evidence. The old AEC and the
later (just renamed) NRC had responsibility to promote and to regulate,
always a dangerous mix in one agency since the two roles may come into
conflict.

>
> >>>Have you been reading Usher lately?
> >>>Martin Fox
>
> >>Usser's Adam is 4004 BC presuming 600 years til 1996-1997 AD
>
> >Did you drop a zero?
>
> (no I was using base 100, hehe)
>
> >>The real Adam was 4025 BC, his mate 4005 BC, and their sin in 3955 BC.
> >>Prophecy
>
> >What prophecy?
>
> >> indicates the 6000 years from Eve is correct because
> >>it was their procreative purpose which was uprooted,
>
> >Huh? They had Cain and Able and many more. As I recall the total is
> >unspecified; it is only stated that they had sons and daughters.
>
> (did you mispell Abel)

I spell it aleph bet lamed. Unfortunately these characters are not
available so I have to transliterate which always confuses me.

> BTW the Jews kept much history which is not in the Bible.

Evidence?

> [1]
> Abram kept a 25-year (Nisan) lunar calendar from Isan he brought to Egypt at 75.

Evidence?

> The foundation of Isan in 2018 BC recorded the moon in Egyptian dates.

Evidence?

> In the 175 years of Abram, Nisan drifted back 44 leap days from July back
> to May. When Babylon was founded in 1894 BC and celebrated its anniversary in
> 1893 BC, Abram mourned man's error and offered Isaac as sacrifice at
> the age of 25 (309 moons spanning 25 Nisans)

Where does it say that Isaac was 25 years old and what was the purpose
of the intended sacrifice? The Tanakh (=OT) gives no age and says only
that God commanded it.

> [2] Jerusalem was taken on Sabbath years

Which time or times? Evidence?

> [3] Eve had 56 children, 33 sons, 23 daughters, 1 son murdered
> 23 sons married 23 sisters, and 9 sons married 9 nieces.
> Shall I go on....

Where do these numbers come from? All that the Tanakh says is that they
had sons and daughters. Where did the neices come from? Did either
Adam or Eve have a sibling and where did that sibling get a spouse? Was
Cain among the 23 of the 9?

>
> >> and because
> >>the 6000 years which end in 1975 AD do end in 1914 AD when retaining
> >>the 360-day calendar since the 2370 BC Flood.
> >>This 1914 AD is the 50th jubilee from 537 BC
> >>as 1996 AD the 50th jubilee from 455 BC
> >>(82 years to restore Jerusalem...the real true city of gathered
> >>believers who survive while the earth dies in a global disaster.)
>
> >You seem to believe that the Jewish calendar is a 360 day calendar. It is a
> >lunar calendar, but has leap years in which an extra month is added. So
> >there really havn't been that many Jubilees.
> >Martin Fox
>
> Not what I beleive but rather what was so.

Evidence?

> The 360-day calendar was not
> disolved until Babylon was founded in 1894 BC. When it was dissolved,
> the lunar calendar then used was the one Abram brought to Egypt in the
> 1st year of the 12th dynasty (1943 BC) at 75.
> (300 lunar months plus 9 intercalary of 30 days = 9125 days)
> Prior to that the 365-day calendar had not been created until 2030 BC
> so that the devient 360-day calendar was used for 340 years from the Flood
> despite its gaining 5 more years than reality. Because of this Noah
> reached Adam's 930 twice (in 2044 BC and again in 2040 BC). The seasonal
> one was accepted because Nahor of Ur had determined the winter solstice
> at the Osiris new moon of Jan 6 of Haran's birth 2078 BC as 3600 moons
> from the Flood (hoSaros which means the 3600). Yet Marduk admitted the
> devient calendar year of 360 days by reckoning 2009 BC as 365 Sumerian yrs =
> to 360 Egyptian years from the new moon Oct 6 of 2369 BC to July 8 of 2009 BC.
> Your 19-year Jewish Sothic calendar (which cannot hold to the seasons if
> you knew any math) had its 7 intercalary months added by Moses. It would
> appear that Moses' Jubilees were Egyptian years 618 moons, yet the barley
> harvest of Nisan had to be fixed by observation, and I would think his
> predicting 10 plagues makes him quite observant of the facts. Especially
> when in 1554 BC he reckonized that the Koiak May moon had become the
> Koiak January moon in 475 years (120 leap days)
> and disputed with Jannes who gets the credit by having the month named after him.

Do you have a shred of evidence for when the cvalendar change occured?


>
> Is there perhaps more detail on calendars that you could give me
> to convince me that this is merely a BELIEF of mine and not fact.

I want to know how you arrive at what you consider to be fact.

> I like showing the world's errors, so how about if you list the
> lunar new moons every 19 years from 2018 BC to present. Its only
> 211 dates nicely showing the 19-year calendar of the Jews is Julian and
> NOT seasonal as claimed. (In fact it doesnt even stay with the Julian).
> I think we need to display what you know before we knock what I know.

It is your duty to present evidence to back up your assertions, not mine
to demonstrate them wrong. In fact, if you present suficient solid
evidence, I'd have to believe.

>
> I presume EDU is faculty not student.

Yep.

> If you are faculty, I show how stupid you are.

For wanting evidence?

> Stupid is NOT how little a person knows, but how big their mouth is
> of how much they know when they dont at all.

Your mouth seems pretty big to me since you make statements without any
evidence.

> But if you are a student,
> then my apologies for my insulting reply,
> and consider yourself educated by what I said.

What that you have said would educate a student?

Martin Fox

Doug Bailey

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:

> I presume EDU is faculty not student.

> If you are faculty, I show how stupid you are.

> Stupid is NOT how little a person knows, but how big their mouth is
> of how much they know when they dont at all.

> But if you are a student,
> then my apologies for my insulting reply,
> and consider yourself educated by what I said.

Please browse throughout this newsgroup where I try to point out the
plethora of fallacies in "John's" posts that infect this newsgroup so
frequently.

Charles R. Pfaff

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:
>
> > Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> writes:
> > > No you are correct, it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
> > > arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now destroyed

> > > with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.
> > > The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth. However, when planets

> > >
> > > Nephilim?
> > > Crossbreeding can only occur with male dominants and female recipients
> > > such as a male horse and a female donkey creating a very larger-than-donkey
> > > very strong sterile male mule.
> > > The Nephilim having angel fathers but human mothers
> > > were male, sterile, very large and strong. They were the sons
> > > of the kings, the angels who ruled, having come from heaven. Atmospheric
> > > formula for materilization is no longer the same, and the angels who have
> > > since materilized certainly arent about to give it to them. These angels
> > > now proving themselves demons are reserved for binding for 1000 years.
> > > It is why they wish to defend themselves by increasing spiritistic interest
> > > among humans so that they can pass their blame onto the gullibility of humans.

> A voice crying out and going unheard,
> (40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
> God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
> The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif
>
> Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

You aught to cry-out in the wilderness and remain unheard for posting
such drivvel....
Everyone knows that Sitchen never sais Marduk struck Taimat; rather one
of the massive bodies ripped from Saturn or Jupeter on one of its 2600
or 3600 year orbits of our Sun; named for the four great winds;(North
East South West) did the dastardley deed.

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>> Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which

>> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=


> destroyed
>> >with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

>Gilgamesh wrote:
> > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

>> >The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth.

> John wrote:
>Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.
>Tiamat is a person's 360=B0 sphere when standing on earth's surface.

Ohhh boy this is some great stuff.
How can one possibly have any proof that this is what the Epic of
Creation refers to in the battle.
Earth is the half we stand on,
heaven is the hammered out bracelet, as mentioned in the Epic of
Creation, the asteroid belt.
But that is what I read into it. But then everybody has a different
read of it don't they? Even of our esteemed scholars, none agree.

>The horizon splits it in two. Marduk has no moon in the myth.

Marduk, really Nibiru, has 'arrows' that puncture and split Tiamat,
that cleave her. The arrows are the moons.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:

>Gilgamesh wrote:
>
>> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.
>

>All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,
>backed up by completely silly linguistic nonsense and is hardly worth
>any serious discussion. How about taking this thread off
>sci.archaeology?

It is really a matter of interpretation.
Besides I was correcting a Sitchin reader.
I always wonder how academic folks came to the conclusion
that Nephilim really meant Giants.
But then you were not asked to enter the discusion either.


Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Profoundess

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>> Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
>> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=
> destroyed
>> >with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

> =

>Gilgamesh wrote:
> > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

> =

>> >The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth.

>> Half of Tiamat is the Earth. The other half the asteroid belt,


>> comets, and asteroids, all of which, including the earth, have water.
>> Thus there is no Oortt Cloud to mention, though mainstream science
>> still contends this. Thus the arrival of larger comets, Hale-Bopp,
>> may be a precursor of things to come.
>> The Epic of Creation is where the account of this battle is found.
>> Gilgamesh
>> Ovni Continuum

>Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.


>Tiamat is a person's 360=B0 sphere when standing on earth's surface.

>The horizon splits it in two. Marduk has no moon in the myth.

>Amazing that the whole story can be fabricated without previous
>links to known mythology. Marduk has 24 orbits in 52 years
>(24x 780-day Mars =3D 52x 360-day calendar New Year)
>so how is it that Sitchin gives it a Shar (3600 years)
>and claims these 24 orbits are 24 fateful years of Abram against Aram-Sin.

>************


>A voice crying out and going unheard,

>(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24 =

>God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
>The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
>http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif

>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah


I have Sitchins book in front of me as I write this. He did not claim
that Marduk had a moon. Tiamat was NOT ACTUALLY HIT by the planet
Marduk. What happened is that large parts of Tiamat were torn away by
the gravitational pull of Marduk as it came near.

He also states that the term HEAVEN was used to describe the asteroid
belt. Thus Tiamat would have been torn into two parts, Heaven and
Earth.

I realize that Sitchin is NOT considered to be a reputable source,
however if one is to argue against his theories, at least quote them
correctly!!!!


John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to Piotr Michalowski

> Gilgamesh wrote:
> > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> > intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

Piotr Michalowski wrote:
> All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,
> backed up by completely silly linguistic nonsense and is hardly worth
> any serious discussion. How about taking this thread off
> sci.archaeology?

Using the game of semantics to turn poetic language into the reality it
was written about is really quite a scientific approach to developing
history out of cuneiform tablets of archaeology. It takes a skill. And
although Sitchin is far from a source which expresses logical truth of
reality, he does carefully and sincerely teach you the art of decifering
when reading his books. I recommend him not for his theories which I feel
are outrageously nonsence enough to be banned, but for his skill in teaching
the nontuition student how to read Sumerian and Akkadian texts.
A $12 paperback is far cheaper than a year's tuition which may leave
one in debt and wondering what the hell was taught in class by
Professor Know-It-All. I quote Jesus who said not to weed out the
young corrupt weeds which infiltrate the young wheat because you may kill
off the wheat in doing so. That is I can appreciate the good from Sitchin
which he cheaply offers in contrast to the univeristy classes other scholars
think are gold and only elite deserve to learn from. Thus I cope with Sitchin's
crap to obtain the education I otherwise could not afford. I wish to be a discoverer
of truth, not just a mere block placed upon others corrupt foundations (theories),
a follower of some professor to some university in HIS beliefs.

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,
(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh wrote:
> Marduk, really Nibiru, has 'arrows' that puncture and split Tiamat,
> that cleave her. The arrows are the moons.
> Gilgamesh

Marduk is when Mars reappears on the horizon for 4 minutes before dawn
over powers it. (Very easily grammatically reversed
and stated as Marduk overpowering dawn of which it does for 4 minutes.
As if Marduk battled to CREATE the dawn of the world. Marduk does count
364 Sumerian years from 2009 BC back to 2369 BC as the first New Year
after the 13-month Flood.)
The arrows are nothing more than the two directions the horizon sends
out from Marduk (in the NE) meeting on the opposite side of earth, behind the observor
of Marduk (SW). His arrow is also the path from the tower of Babel out to
Marduk splitting Tiamat as does also the surface of the earth split Tiamat.
Take a look.

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to Martin Fox

> Your mouth seems pretty big to me since you make statements without any
> evidence.
> Martin Fox

I am aware that my research (when given the attention of by scholars)
begins the concepts of most archaeology and history with a clean slate
starting from scratch, rather than building on claims founded by the
scholastic fields 100-200 years ago. Thus my *EVIDENCE* expressed in
detail enough may not be understood with first reading of it, and thus it
would create more skepticism over things not understood. Further for each
profound (or shocking) claim made by me, this news post could not hold my
detailed explanations and evidence. Yet I wish to present the scenerio as a WHOLE.
Thus by presenting one profound (or shocking) claim after another, each
claim can now be taken one at a time and presented.....presuming your reaction
to be questions rather than scoffing and mockery.

I admit that my view of scholars is a general stereotype prejudice because
I do regard the true humble ones as really taking a back seat so as not to
be humiliated by the shame they know their scholastic brothers to bring
with their know-it-all ansers and solutions to the world's questions.
I do not raise my self above true scholars, but rather desire them to take notice
of me so I can share what I have found, and they can fit the pieces into the
vast knowledge they have greater than me. There are scholars who do
accept biblical answers, and do discreetly keep silent in contrast to their
big mouths who lead the world.
(the words discreetly silent not intended as a self descript, but reference to you
if you are one of these listeners)

Martin Fox

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:
>
> >I just realized that I had neglected to check your arithmetic below.
>
> >>Usser's Adam is 4004 BC presuming 600 years til 1996-1997 AD.

> >>The real Adam was 4025 BC, his mate 4005 BC, and their sin in 3955 BC.
> >>Prophecy indicates the 6000 years from Eve is correct because
> >>it was their procreative purpose which was uprooted, and because

> >>the 6000 years which end in 1975 AD do end in 1914 AD when retaining
> >>the 360-day calendar since the 2370 BC Flood.
> >>This 1914 AD is the 50th jubilee from 537 BC
> >>as 1996 AD the 50th jubilee from 455 BC
> >>(82 years to restore Jerusalem...the real true city of gathered
> >>believers who survive while the earth dies in a global disaster.)
>
> >4005+1996=6001.
> >There goes another doomsday prophecy sunk when the magic date has passed.
> >Martin Fox
>
> Sorry Martin, you obviously dont know the calendar.
> It is 4004 yrs from 4005 BC to 1 BC (can you subtract).
> It is 4005 yrs from 4005 BC to 1 AD (dont add, you'll be wrong).
> And that is why
> it is only 6000 yrs from 4005 BC to 1996 AD.
> It is only 1995 years from 1 AD to 1996 AD.

I stand corrected.

I am still waiting for evidence that a commet will hit earth this year.
When will it happen? Should I hide under my desk?

>
> I presume EDU is faculty not student.

Right.

> If you are faculty, I show how stupid you are.

Interesting from one who posts claims and never presents evidence.

> Stupid is NOT how little a person knows, but how big their mouth is
> of how much they know when they dont at all.

And what is the mouth that blathers claims without evidence?

> But if you are a student,
> then my apologies for my insulting reply,
> and consider yourself educated by what I said.

If any of my students were educated by you to anything but doubting you,
they would and should get failing grades.

Martin Fox

Fridrik Skulason

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

In <32D36E...@wi.net> John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> writes:

>it is not because I stamp huffily out of town for being ignored, but because the
>wicked push me out there, or chase me to kill those they do not want to hear.

The reason you go largely unnoticed is that only a few people are so
dense that they do not see you for what you are .... a wacko, in
serious need of professional help.

And yes, Richard Schiller, (that *IS* you real name, right ?) ... are
you still predicting a comet strike in March ? If so, what are you
going to do if/when no comet shows up ?

-frisk

--
Fridrik Skulason Frisk Software International phone: +354-5-617273
Author of F-PROT E-mail: fr...@complex.is fax: +354-5-617274

Judith Stroud

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Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:
<snipped for sake of brevity>
>
> I see you know nothing about the Sar meaning 3600 (days) and its
> other pronunciation Shar which means 3600 (years), or the Britannica
> which reveals Saros also means 3600.
> Because hoSaros means *THE 3600*,
> I regard it as prenatal Osiris.

"Osiris" is Greek. The Classical Egyptian name is Awsar (and Isis is
Awset) - no 'R' and no 'S' - a vowel could be dropped or pronounced
differently but not a consonant.

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to cra...@sedona.net

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF

The 7 tablets of Creation equal 7 days or periods.
Marduk is known to have ruled (measured) 52 years.
7x 52 sumerian years = 364 Sumerian years (about 359 Egyptian yrs)
from 2369 BC to 2009 BC when Marduk was determined to be an average 780-day
Mars with an average 90-day absence. This was determined by their
exact solar conjunctions being 18,720 days apart from March of 2060 BC to
June of 2009 BC. These are 24 years (orbits) of Marduk. Therefore all factors
prove Marduk is a calendar count of New Years from the Flood (creation).

> John the ForeRunner, Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
> >> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
> >> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=
> > destroyed with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

> >Gilgamesh wrote:


> > > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> >> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

> John the ForeRunner, Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
> >> >The half remaining in one piece he says is Earth and the other half
becomes pieces of heaven. However, the half which is the earth means
(as my GIF shows) the soil or lower half of each persons 360-degree world.
Granted if on a boat, the lower half of your world would be the sea.



> >Gilgamesh wrote:
> >> Half of Tiamat is the Earth. The other half the asteroid belt,
> >> comets, and asteroids, all of which, including the earth, have water.
> >> Thus there is no Oortt Cloud to mention, though mainstream science
> >> still contends this. Thus the arrival of larger comets, Hale-Bopp,
> >> may be a precursor of things to come.
> >> The Epic of Creation is where the account of this battle is found.
> >> Gilgamesh
> >> Ovni Continuum

> >Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.

> >Tiamat is a person's 360-degree sphere when standing on earth's surface.


> >The horizon splits it in two. Marduk has no moon in the myth.
> >Amazing that the whole story can be fabricated without previous
> >links to known mythology. Marduk has 24 orbits in 52 years

> >(24x 780-day Mars = 52x 360-day calendar New Year)


> >so how is it that Sitchin gives it a Shar (3600 years)
> >and claims these 24 orbits are 24 fateful years of Abram against Aram-Sin.

Profoundess wrote:
> I have Sitchins book in front of me as I write this. He did not claim
> that Marduk had a moon. Tiamat was NOT ACTUALLY HIT by the planet
> Marduk. What happened is that large parts of Tiamat were torn away by
> the gravitational pull of Marduk as it came near.
> He also states that the term HEAVEN was used to describe the asteroid
> belt. Thus Tiamat would have been torn into two parts, Heaven and
> Earth.
>
> I realize that Sitchin is NOT considered to be a reputable source,
> however if one is to argue against his theories, at least quote them
> correctly!!!!

Yes, and I have *IT* and its two sequels.
And I knew there was no moon claim...but Mr.Gilgamesh says Marduk's arrows
were its moons.

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

> John the ForeRunner wrote:
> > A voice crying out and going unheard,

Charles R. Pfaff wrote:
> You aught to cry-out in the wilderness and remain unheard for posting
> such drivvel....

If that is a suggestion to go cry out where no one lives to hear me,
I'm sorry to inform you it means that I publicly cry out warnings in the city
and do not get heard. If I end up in the wilderness where no one is,


it is not because I stamp huffily out of town for being ignored, but because the
wicked push me out there, or chase me to kill those they do not want to hear.

Charles R. Pfaff wrote:
> Everyone knows that Sitchen never said Marduk struck Taimat; rather one
> of the massive bodies ripped from Saturn or Jupiter on one of its 2600


> or 3600 year orbits of our Sun; named for the four great winds;(North
> East South West) did the dastardley deed.

I see you know nothing about the Sar meaning 3600 (days) and its


other pronunciation Shar which means 3600 (years), or the Britannica
which reveals Saros also means 3600.
Because hoSaros means *THE 3600*,
I regard it as prenatal Osiris.

************

Charles R. Pfaff

unread,
Jan 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/8/97
to

Gilgamesh wrote:
>
> John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ohhh boy this is some great stuff.
> How can one possibly have any proof that this is what the Epic of
> Creation refers to in the battle.
> Earth is the half we stand on,
> heaven is the hammered out bracelet, as mentioned in the Epic of
> Creation, the asteroid belt.
> But that is what I read into it. But then everybody has a different
> read of it don't they? Even of our esteemed scholars, none agree.
>
> >The horizon splits it in two. Marduk has no moon in the myth.
>
> Marduk, really Nibiru, has 'arrows' that puncture and split Tiamat,
> that cleave her. The arrows are the moons.
>
> Gilgamesh
> Ovni Continuum
Yes everyone has a different read on the Cosmology implied, but I
believe its like the Biblical writings in Genesis for instance ther are
two different accounts of creation using Adam, one account using Cain
another account using Noah, and others using Lot, Jacob(Israel), Ham,
Shem,Ishmael,Abeam(Abraham). All of these are the same creation story
only using different mythological characters to illustrate and emphasize
for people the natural seven step creation process from chaos to
humanity.

Douglas Weller

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

On Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:15:48 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

>> John wrote:
>>Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.

>>Tiamat is a person's 360=B0 sphere when standing on earth's surface.


>
>Ohhh boy this is some great stuff.
>How can one possibly have any proof that this is what the Epic of
>Creation refers to in the battle.
>Earth is the half we stand on,

Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?
--
Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
Requests To: arch-mo...@ucl.ac.uk
Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details


Kraken

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Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

g...@3-cities.com wrote:
>
> John the ForeSkin <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>
> >Become an archeologist will know this.
>
> And ForeSkin is an archelogist?
>
> Not possible.
>
> GeoWhat about "Geo, the New world Order pupett?

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:


Gilgamesh wrote:
> Marduk, really Nibiru, has 'arrows' that puncture and split Tiamat,
> that cleave her. The arrows are the moons.
> Gilgamesh

Marduk is when Mars reappears on the horizon for 4 minutes before dawn


over powers it. (Very easily grammatically reversed
and stated as Marduk overpowering dawn of which it does for 4 minutes.
As if Marduk battled to CREATE the dawn of the world. Marduk does count
364 Sumerian years from 2009 BC back to 2369 BC as the first New Year
after the 13-month Flood.)
The arrows are nothing more than the two directions the horizon sends
out from Marduk (in the NE) meeting on the opposite side of earth, behind the observor
of Marduk (SW). His arrow is also the path from the tower of Babel out to

Marduk splitting Tiamat as does also the surface of the earth split Tiamat.
Take a look.

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to Douglas Weller

http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF

> >> John wrote:
> >>Tiamat's two halves are An and Ki, heaven and earth.

> >>Tiamat is a person's 360-degree sphere when standing on earth's surface.
Reiterated:
An is the heaven or 180-degree semisphere overhead,
and Ki is the lower 180-degree semisphere we stand on as earth.
There is nothing absurd about this and skeptics like Weller and
Charles merely wish to exalt their own views above all other posters.
It is clear that the newsgroups are dominated by those who wish to teach the world;
and despite these men thinking I am one of those, it is they who stand up
in their words to declare how great they are in determining the
accuracy of others information. Look at the fact that Weller boasts
in signature that he is placed in a position of being Moderater.
His ego is that of a all-knowing Controller of others.
I even doubt they looked at the GIF because they are above accepting
others free gifts of knowledge, and they didnt even question the
NET post which converted the degree symbol into (=B0).
I doubt they even cared so as to understand. This is because they are not humble.

> gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)


> wrote:
> >Ohhh boy this is some great stuff.
> >How can one possibly have any proof that this is what the Epic of
> >Creation refers to in the battle.
> >Earth is the half we stand on,

Douglas Weller wrote:
> Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
> planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
> in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?

> Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to:sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Requests To: arch-mo...@ucl.ac.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

************

Martin Fox

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:

Drivel. It's all drivel.

Martin Fox

Douglas Weller

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Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

On Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:06:43 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

>Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:
>
>>Gilgamesh wrote:
>>
>>> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.
>>

>>All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,

>But then you were not asked to enter the discusion either.
>

Don't have public discussions if you don't want others entering into them.
--

David Mohr

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to John the ForeRunner
> > Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> > Submissions to:sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> > Requests To: arch-mo...@ucl.ac.uk
> > Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
>
> ************
> A voice crying out and going unheard,
> (40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
> God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
> The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif
>
> Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
> http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

Okay, I've got a couple of questions for all of you about all of this.
Call me ignorant, but who is this Sitchin you keep talking about and
what exactly has he written? (Always go to the source) I assume from
John's web page and the on-going discussion, this guy is some astrologer
and/or prophet from Biblical times or perhaps before.

I'm honestly curious in the thread that's running through here. Any
educational points would be appreciated. Before I get a "check out my
web site" from John, however, I did and it is TERRIBLY difficult to
follow. Although the spelling and grammar are bad, the continuity is
worse. I'm fairly familiar with the science of Astronomy. I've also
read the Bible several times (ah, Catholic school) and am pretty
conversant with (and skeptical of) both testiments. About all I can get
out of your web site, however, is you've found something that "proves"
the Watch Tower Society's assertion that 144,000 folks get to meet the
big guy and the end of the world is around the corner. Please take that
as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. And then gimme the kiddie-version of what
you're trying to say; I'll take it from there.

As for what Douglas Weller wrote, well, it is considered bad manners and
worse form to launch a personal attack during a debate. Please respond
to his question and please do not stoop to childish remarks by attacking
the source. I am honestly curious what your answer to this is. I do
not believe there is any scientific evidence that the Earth is "half of"
some broken asteroid. Please correct me, anyone, if I am wrong.

Ruling out science, what then is the basis for Earth being a "broken
world"? If the source of the "Earth is half of Tiamat" theory is
somebody's writings, then why do you believe it? If the Earth really
used to be a bigger planet and we got nailed by another big chuck of
rock, who would still be around to record this? Wouldn't all life on
both worlds be quite dead? (You thought Loma Prieda was bad...) So,
any book by "eye-witnesses" must be a sham. And I think everyone on the
'net knows who dangerous stories begining with "Someone I know once told
me..." can be.

One last thing: I assume all the referrences to Osiris, Isis, Tiamat,
Marduk, et al are planets, stars, constellations and/or comets,
correct? I'm familiar with the names as mythical figures, but not as
anything else. I do know the ancient Egyptians used to call the
constellation Orion by another name (Osiris or Horus, I believe). Any
illumination of these points would likewise be interesting.

Asking a bunch of questions...as always...

David

"Et puis, il m'a dit plusiers choses qu'ils etaient toute a fait
bizarre. Et je lui demandais <<pourquoi?>>"

Martin Fox

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to malk...@mindspring.com

Michelle Malkin wrote:
>
> g...@3-cities.com wrote:
>
> >John the ForeSkin <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>
> >>Become an archeologist will know this.
>
> >And ForeSkin is an archelogist?
>
> >Not possible.
>
> >Geo
>
> You mean you've never heard of the world famous archaeologist Alphonse Pierre
> Fouresquin? He was the one who found both missing briss foreskin burial places
> hidden for centuries just outside the ruined and buried walls of ancient Israel
> and Judah. Even the Assyrians didn't know where they were or they would have
> destroyed the sites. Jeeze, Geo, I thought everyone knew that! ;-)
>
> Mickey
>
And he made a wallet out of them. When you rub it, it bocomes a
suitcase.

You say bris, I say brit. Let's call the whole thing off.

Martin Fox

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

>Okay, I've got a couple of questions for all of you about all of this.
>Call me ignorant, but who is this Sitchin you keep talking about and
>what exactly has he written? (Always go to the source) I assume from
>John's web page and the on-going discussion, this guy is some astrologer
>and/or prophet from Biblical times or perhaps before.

Sitchin is like Velichovsky who thinks humans were dropped off by UFOs.
But though I consider him a quack for UFOs
(and not myself a quack for believing the Bible as reality) these men feel
I am like him in absurdity. I think Sitchin does a very good job of
publishing paperback Sumerian texts for $12 in contrast to the loud
voices of scholars who insist you get a loan to take their courses
which I consider as equally opinionated as Sitchin or I.

>I'm honestly curious in the thread that's running through here. Any
>educational points would be appreciated. Before I get a "check out my
>web site" from John, however, I did and it is TERRIBLY difficult to
>follow.

Because I am a laborer and not a sales person or scholastic blubberer.

>Although the spelling and grammar are bad, the continuity is
>worse. I'm fairly familiar with the science of Astronomy. I've also
>read the Bible several times (ah, Catholic school) and am pretty
>conversant with (and skeptical of) both testiments. About all I can get
>out of your web site, however, is you've found something that "proves"
>the Watch Tower Society's assertion that 144,000 folks get to meet the
>big guy and the end of the world is around the corner. Please take that
>as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. And then gimme the kiddie-version of what
>you're trying to say; I'll take it from there.

That WT point is for their benefit only, and the end of the world bit
only leads people to safety. The data itself is wone of chronology,
history, astronomy calendars...how our society evolved according to
Bible chronology accounting for all nations from Noah's family.

>As for what Douglas Weller wrote, well, it is considered bad manners and
>worse form to launch a personal attack during a debate. Please respond
>to his question and please do not stoop to childish remarks by attacking
>the source. I am honestly curious what your answer to this is. I do
>not believe there is any scientific evidence that the Earth is "half of"
>some broken asteroid. Please correct me, anyone, if I am wrong.

I never said it was. I do not believe Sitchin as regards Tiamat being
another planet. Rather Tiamat is a 360-degree view of our own planet
from our eyes as we stand upon the ground (earth). The poster Mr.Gilgamesh
is the one who counter my explanation of Marduk with his claims of Sitchin
when I mentioned that the 3600-year shar is NOT Marduk. 3600 years is venus
and is not divisible by 52-year Marduk, 24-year Marduk, or 13-year Marduk.

>Ruling out science, what then is the basis for Earth being a "broken
>world"? If the source of the "Earth is half of Tiamat" theory is
>somebody's writings, then why do you believe it?

You therefore are not sending this question to me but apparently to
Sitchin followers of which I am not. But the man still shares
cuneiform texts with the world, (of which real scholars never do).

>If the Earth really
>used to be a bigger planet and we got nailed by another big chuck of
>rock, who would still be around to record this? Wouldn't all life on
>both worlds be quite dead? (You thought Loma Prieda was bad...) So,
>any book by "eye-witnesses" must be a sham. And I think everyone on the
>'net knows who dangerous stories begining with "Someone I know once told
>me..." can be.

>One last thing: I assume all the referrences to Osiris, Isis, Tiamat,
>Marduk, et al are planets, stars, constellations and/or comets,
>correct?

THAT is the issue. Most contend Marduk could be Jupiter since both cultures
call him supreme. However, his description fits closer to Mars in history's
supplied numeric figures. Mars' 13 Sumerian years falls in 12 calendar years.
Further, in my finding Eusebius providing Marduk's year as 2009 BC I have found
that both Mars and Jupiter have calendars from that year when counting from
an epoch of Adam as 4025 BC (a Watchtower calc since 1956; 4026 BC as of 1943).
HOWEVER, hold your hat, Sitchin says Marduk is a planet with an elipsed comet orbit
of 3600 years. I disagree. The 3600-year Shar measures venus from the 1626 BC
death of Babylon's king Amizaduga to 1972 AD as 6000 years.
(VENUS MATH = 1200 Egyptian -60d = 1199 Julian +5d
so that 3600 egypt -180d = 3597 julian +15d )
The Hindu eventually presumed the 1200 years to be 100x 12-yr Jupiter (calendar)
or 12x 100-year Jupiter (presumed Egyptian Seth) and made it their Treta Yuga
then altered to 3600x 360 days, and then 3600x 360 years. This Hindu calendar
is in the name of Jupiter and has NOTHING of real astronomy in it.

>I'm familiar with the names as mythical figures, but not as
>anything else. I do know the ancient Egyptians used to call the
>constellation Orion by another name (Osiris or Horus, I believe). Any
>illumination of these points would likewise be interesting.

Osiris was the 3-day moon (Parker/Chicago Oriental Institute)
dying and reborn (in May 2029 BC),
eventually becoming the 3-day winter solstice moon by 1554 BC
based on the solstice January 6 moon of 2029 BC,
and the 3-day winter solstice sun entered the picture from 1600 BC
when Egypt's Jannes enslaved Israel, and established January in 1554 BC.
In that year 1554 BC stonehenge aligns as the best example of lunar
alignment of which Greek, Rome, Catholic, and British lands regarded Osiris
as the 14-day waning moon (Krupp) which is verified by stonehenge.
(Horus is nothing more than reborn Osiris)
The fact that the emphasis is NOT on moon or sun but on death and rebirth
is why Orion can also be Osiris. But current scholars attempt to prove him
the original Osiris as well as the ONLY.
This is power hunger in the scholastic world; it brings in money and/or fame.

Nolo

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to


To Whom it May Concern,

I have never asked that a particular thread be dropped from this
group - after all, I might be next. But I courteously suggest that the
threads dealing with Marduk et al. be removed from the mythology
newsgroup. For two reasons:

Firstly, as the threads now stand, they are almost unintelligble
to the average reader of this newsgroup. I am no mental slouch, and I
admit to once or twice dabbling in the complicated relations of religious
texts, myths, astronomical bodies and their movements, and the
significance of numbers to all of them. But the threads are far too dense
for anyone but the smallest circle of cognoscenti. Can't you all open it
up a little? What's the *point* of your speculations and numbers-juggling?

But there is a second problem. Even if it wee intelligible to the
average reader of this group, I suspect it wouldn't be very close to a
discussion of mythology. Now, we have lately had some differences as to
*what is mythology* and *what are myths* (kudos to Chris Camfield for the
distinction), and I have myself contributed to it. But a myth is at least
a story. I don't think the story I dimly see through the multiple >>'s and
24-year and 329-year and 3600-year and 29 and a half day cycles and
splitting Earths is myth as usually spoken about in this group. Like
pornography, I may not be very good at defining it, but at least I know it
when I see it.

It seems that the upshot of these threads is that the core of
religious and mythical stories is *essentially* about astronomy. I think
this a truncated theory, as limited as the worst of atheistic materialism
in its own way. But I won't press this here - just that it is
inappropriate for alt.mythology.


Sincerely yours,


Nolo <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu>

Gilgamesh

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Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:06:43 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
>wrote:
>>Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Gilgamesh wrote:
>>>> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>>>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.
>>>
>>>All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,
>>But then you were not asked to enter the discusion either.

>Don't have public discussions if you don't want others entering into them.

I don;t mind others entering the discussions, yet I do mind those who
ask to remove a particular thread from a news group, which is what
Piotr did. If he does not like the topic, then yes, he does not have
to enter the debate. No one asked him to come in.
Graduate yet Dougy?

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

"Charles R. Pfaff" <cpf...@nwlink.com> wrote:

> Yes everyone has a different read on the Cosmology implied, but I
>believe its like the Biblical writings in Genesis for instance ther are
>two different accounts of creation using Adam, one account using Cain
>another account using Noah, and others using Lot, Jacob(Israel), Ham,
>Shem,Ishmael,Abeam(Abraham). All of these are the same creation story
>only using different mythological characters to illustrate and emphasize
>for people the natural seven step creation process from chaos to
>humanity.

In genesis iteself you find that man is created not once, but twice.
Yes, it is all the same creation story, the bible ripped of a lot of
info from the many stories that already existed, giving full praise
to Yahweh.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

Pcr...@sedona.net (Profoundess) wrote:

>John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>

>>> Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
>>> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
>>> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=
>> destroyed
>>> >with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

>>Gilgamesh wrote:


>> > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
>>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

Profoundness wrote


>I realize that Sitchin is NOT considered to be a reputable source,
>however if one is to argue against his theories, at least quote them
>correctly!!!!


Please check page 224 and 225 of the 12th Planet by Sitchin,
an illustration is present to clear up your mistake, so please retract
your statement, thank you.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Piotr Michalowski

unread,
Jan 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/9/97
to

John the ForeRunner wrote:
>
> Using the game of semantics to turn poetic language into the reality it
> was written about is really quite a scientific approach to developing
> history out of cuneiform tablets of archaeology. It takes a skill. And
> although Sitchin is far from a source which expresses logical truth of
> reality, he does carefully and sincerely teach you the art of decifering
> when reading his books. I recommend him not for his theories which I feel
> are outrageously nonsence enough to be banned, but for his skill in teaching
> the nontuition student how to read Sumerian and Akkadian texts.
> A $12 paperback is far cheaper than a year's tuition which may le

Stichin's absurd renditions of Akkadian and Sumerian can hardly be
considered a bargain. He knows nothing of either language and cannot
even keep the apart. Frankly, I think he is pulling everyone'e leg, as
it would take an enormous effort to be as wrong as he is on these
matters. Some time ago I went through some of the nonsense in one of
his books, just to show how misleading his Assyriology is, but I have no
wish to do so again. To think that a tree was cut down for this....

Dionysius

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

Nolo <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:


> Sincerely yours,


> Nolo <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu>


You post a good argument! But, unfortunately, these "psycho-prophets"
enjoy the audience here. They can successfully bait people into debate
over useless bullshit that is so obscured as to be pointless. It's all
designed to inflate their huge Ego complex that has them at the center
of their own psychotic universe. They sit upon their new age throne of
pseudo-prophetic pontification and puke out this
numero-astronomical-religious dribble. It's all designed to make them
look OH SO BIG and WISE and make you feel puny and insignificant.
Their cliquish language is meant to condescend to, and exclude, all
others from participating in their "debate". It's not a level playing
field. They don't want it to be a fair setup. They want the rest of us
to stay off balance and intimidated. It's all such trivial bullshit,
so transparent to anyone with half a brain.

Beware of prophets who burn to tell you how it all is:

"He who knows, does not tell
He who tells, does not know" - Lao Tsu

Myth the myth!......D


Don Judy

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

On Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:59:06 -0500 <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:

> Subject: On Why Marduk et al. Should be Dropped unless Justified

>
>
>
> To Whom it May Concern,
>
> I have never asked that a particular thread be dropped from this
> group - after all, I might be next. But I courteously suggest that the
> threads dealing with Marduk et al. be removed from the mythology
> newsgroup. For two reasons:
>
> Firstly, as the threads now stand, they are almost unintelligble
> to the average reader of this newsgroup. I am no mental slouch, and I
> admit to once or twice dabbling in the complicated relations of religious
> texts, myths, astronomical bodies and their movements, and the
> significance of numbers to all of them. But the threads are far too dense
> for anyone but the smallest circle of cognoscenti. Can't you all open it
> up a little? What's the *point* of your speculations and numbers-juggling?

The point is to take the water from the washing of walking baconsupply and
spread it evenly but thickly through beginning, middle and end of each day,s
postings, thus ensuring that said hogwash emanating from previously
unmentioned but referred to hambone distributors will be stepped in,
accidentally or otherwise, by all...that some choose to wade in (up to their
necks, or whatever is inappropriate) indicates they can't leave all that
effluvia floating around on its own, lest it be falseley recognized during its
bobbings to and from the surface as uncontested truth.

>
> But there is a second problem. Even if it wee intelligible to the
> average reader of this group, I suspect it wouldn't be very close to a
> discussion of mythology.

You're right, it mythed by miles...

>Like pornography, I may not be very good at defining it, but at least I know
it when I see it.

..although one would think mythology is much harder to spot than pornography,
which legally speaking seems to exist primarily in the eye of the beholder of
the beholder, at least for prosecutorial purposes, in truth mythology can be
found in any of the better bookstores, whereas I hear that pornography can be
found primarily in the gutter; I have looked long and hard for such, and can
assure you there is little in the way of prurience in these gutters, at least
here in Dutch country. My findings also indicate there are few if any minds
there, excepting the occasional drunken student, and there is some doubt as to
the validity of the findings involved in those rare cases all the same.

>
> It seems that the upshot of these threads is that the core of
> religious and mythical stories is *essentially* about astronomy. I think
> this a truncated theory, as limited as the worst of atheistic materialism
> in its own way. But I won't press this here - just that it is
> inappropriate for alt.mythology.
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
>
> Nolo <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu>
>
>

Ah, yes, let this loving thread rest solely twixt the bosoms of the all
accepting sci.arch.ed.eyebrow (not to be confused with her sister,
sci.arch.ed.highbrow; less accepting and apparently eternally surprised), even
as alt.mythology goes skipping gaily, foreskinless, across the cyberian plain.

Yours,
Don


ThresholdMUD

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

In article <Pine.HPP.3.95.97010...@river.it.gvsu.edu>,

Nolo <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
> I have never asked that a particular thread be dropped from this
>group - after all, I might be next. But I courteously suggest that the
>threads dealing with Marduk et al. be removed from the mythology
>newsgroup. For two reasons:
>
> Firstly, as the threads now stand, they are almost unintelligble
>to the average reader of this newsgroup. I am no mental slouch, and I
>admit to once or twice dabbling in the complicated relations of religious
>texts, myths, astronomical bodies and their movements, and the
>significance of numbers to all of them. But the threads are far too dense
>for anyone but the smallest circle of cognoscenti. Can't you all open it
>up a little? What's the *point* of your speculations and numbers-juggling?

Nolo, I think your point is good. As a new reader/poster to this group, I read
the Marduk threads and was worried that this group was all like that. A bunch
of arguing over numbers and dates. In general, such arguments are silly since
we really have no clue if any calendars are actually correct. Years have most
certainly been forgotten, repeated, skipped, etc. throughout history since
there was no one standard.

However, I must say this: This is not a newsgroup of great volume. From what I
have seen, there are only about 30-40 posts per day (maximum). Thus, is it
really that harmful that 3 or 4 (or even 10) are about Marduk and number
crunching?

To their credit, they keep it in one thread. I read newsgroups where the
idiots are so dense they will spread arguments and flame wars over 5 or 6
threads (or more) making it impossible to avoid.

Finally, this *is* an .alt newsgroup, which means it is extremely free form.
Couple that with the low volume, the fact that the posters keep it in one
thread, and I think maybe it isnt that big of a problem.

-Aristotle@ThresholdMUD

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Guilds: fighter, mage, thief, cleric, psion, alchemist, shapeshifter
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Piotr Michalowski

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

Gilgamesh wrote:
>
> Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> >Gilgamesh wrote:
> >
> >> It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> >> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.
> >
> >All of this is pure fantasy, invented out of whole cloth by Stitchin,
> >backed up by completely silly linguistic nonsense and is hardly worth
> >any serious discussion. How about taking this thread off
> >sci.archaeology?
>
> It is really a matter of interpretation.
> Besides I was correcting a Sitchin reader.
> I always wonder how academic folks came to the conclusion
> that Nephilim really meant Giants.

> But then you were not asked to enter the discusion either.
>
I did not realize that one needed an "invitation" to join this silly
discussion; why don;t you then simply deal with these matters by email
and not clutter up a number of discussion groups with fantasy and
fiction uner the guise of "analysis". Please, have your fun, but this
is not a matter of "interpretation." If someone claimed that English
"dog" meant "snowflake", no one would take that person seriously, and
that is exactly the level of "knowledge" of Sumerian and Akkadian that
Stichin has. No, it is not a matter of "interpretation," but of
ignorance building on ignorance. There are no Nephilkim in Mesopotamian
thought, so the whole thing is a silly distraction, the word simply is
not found in any cuneiform text, period, and therefor no connetion with
Marduk.

John the ForeRunner

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to Gilgamesh

TOPIC: Zecharia Sitchin's
*12th Planet* Marduk
*Stairway To Heaven*
*Wars of Gods and Men*
(Prometheus Books) 800-421-0351
(if you are a Christian ordering these books,
do tell them you do not want their ordering catalog of anti-Bible publishings)

> >John the ForeRunner Eliyah <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
> >>> >it was Sitchin who claims that Marduk is a planet which
> >>> >arrives every 3600 years. But he claimed that planet collided and is now=
> >> destroyed
> >>> >with our 3rd planet from the sun (Tiamat) and split it into two.

> >>Gilgamesh wrote:


> >> > It was the a Moon of Marduk that deystroyed Tiamat, leaving Marduk
> >>> intact, but most likely damaged due to near orbit gravitations.

> Profoundness wrote
> >I realize that Sitchin is NOT considered to be a reputable source,
> >however if one is to argue against his theories, at least quote them
> >correctly!!!!

>Gilgamesh wrote:
> Please check page 224 and 225 of the 12th Planet by Sitchin,
> an illustration is present to clear up your mistake, so please retract
> your statement, thank you.

This only verifies your statement that Sitchin claims Marduk has
moons which strike our previous double-size Earth (Tiamat).
It does not prove Marduk has any link to the 3600-year Shar.
Eusebius clearly claims that Ninus (Nimrod) died when Abram
became 10 having a 52-year rule of 43 yrs to Abram's birth
and 9 years after. The scholars all equate Marduk or Merodach
as being Nimrod the warrior. Mar is Akkadian for The Firstborn Son (of God).
Mars the warrior is not only derived from Mar-duk
but its 24 orbits equal 52 Sumerian years. (24x 780d = 52x 360d)
I refer you to GODS AND MEN p.298 which specifically refer to these 24 yrs
of Marduk (Mars) yet wrongly as Earth years instead of the 24 synodic orbits
of Mars. Babel's Marduk was determined as from Ninevah's
New Year April 7 of 2060 BC (1970 AM, Noah's 914) to
New Year July 8 of 2009 BC (2022 AM, Noah's 966)
This throws out your 12th planet theory. As regards the number 12,
Mars whose rebirth 6x 780d =13y x 360d is short of a real 13 years and is thus
in the 12th year at which time Jupiter who has been regarded as Marduk
for 3000 yrs has returned to the same zodiac also 12 yrs.
These realities are far more worth publishing than Sitchin's claim which
thru sensationalism have spread over the world like Star Trek.
As regards your 3600-year Shar, it was a 3600-day sar or decades
of 10 years from 3635 BC before the Flood.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/histry/preFludkngs.GIF
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/histry/preFludkngs2.GIF
until 1st Dynasty Babylon killed it in 1894 BC.
Since Marduk is 365 Sumerian years (360 Egyptian) after the Flood,
though Marduk could appear as 36 sars after the Flood, it is in reality
36.5 sars after it using the calendar which began 126.5 sars before the Flood
for a total of 163 sars where Mars appears at the END of the next sar's fisrt year,
(163 sar +1 yr). There is no need to create this claim of a giant planet out there
with a 3600-year orbit. The 3600-year SHAR is the count from Ammizaduga's death
in 1626 BC (Egyptian 2400 AM)
until 1972 AD (Egyptian 6000 AM lacking 900 leap days
which would make 1975 AD =6000 AM).
This SHAR measures Venus and
cannot be a Marduk unless VENUS is regarded as The Son.
Of which the Maya seem to be the only ones who regard venus the male Son
who will come to save us.

So I will make no retraction for merely questioning Marduk as having any moon
or moons. It is Sitchin who says so and NOT the texts.
AGAIN I TELL YOU to take a look at the real Tiamat story.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel.gif
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel2.GIF
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/3Dbabel3.GIF
It measures 52 Sumer years from 2060-2009 BC as 24 orbits
and averages the very eradic orbit of Mars as 780 days based on the
actual two dates of solar conjunction. In 2009 BC Mars has the exact
90-day average for a disappearance. The poem is written on 7 tablets
as being 7 DAYS or cycles of 52 years from the creation by Flood to
the creating od this Marduk calendar god.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/armgedon/originMar.gif
The year 6000 AM is thus from morningstar Marduk of the
New Year May 17 of 1913 AD to the
New Year May 12 of 1914 AD where Revelation 12 is then supposed to
make a New Christian Jerusalem thru British war as did Isaiah predict the
previous New Jewish Jerusalem thru Persian wars.

Dionysius

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

>A voice crying out and going unheard,

We should be so lucky!!!

>God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.

According to who? I don't take the word of wanna-be-prophets.

>The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.

Sorry, the year has ended and Clinton still rules! I only pray that
there are not another 143,999 assholes like you out there!!
Go join all the other pseudo-prophets, who came before you, and
calculate another date for your "end-of-the-world-rapture" bullshit.

>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at

http://www.loser/ass-wipe/psycho/non-prophet.org/

Patrick C. Ryan

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to Don Judy

Don Judy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:59:06 -0500 <spe...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Subject: On Why Marduk et al. Should be Dropped unless Justified
>
> >
> >
> >
> > To Whom it May Concern,
> >
> > I have never asked that a particular thread be dropped from this
> > group - after all, I might be next. But I courteously suggest that the
> > threads dealing with Marduk et al. be removed from the mythology
> > newsgroup. For two reasons:
> >
> > Firstly, as the threads now stand, they are almost unintelligble
> > to the average reader of this newsgroup. I am no mental slouch, and I
> > admit to once or twice dabbling in the complicated relations of religious
> > texts, myths, astronomical bodies and their movements, and the
> > significance of numbers to all of them. But the threads are far too dense
> > for anyone but the smallest circle of cognoscenti. Can't you all open it
> > up a little? What's the *point* of your speculations and numbers-juggling?
>

Dear Nolo and Don and Others:

Nolo, from the use of "atheistic materialism", I assume you are a
Christian who does not care for religion being associated with celestial
phenomena --- a position that is at odds with 99% of the remaining
religions of the world.

Unless we want to pursue a Christian agenda under the guise of an
investigation of mythology, we should maintain our openness to
astronomical interpretations.

Through my own research, I am convinced that mankind's earliest religion
began as fear of death and dead ancestors, and that mankind assuaged
these fears with a religion that considered the stars dead ancestors,
and the more impressive or moving stars (planets, sun, and moon),
powerful ancestoirs, i.e. gods.

Though Christianity and Judaism and Islam claim special revelations from
God, it is easy for any familiar with other religions and gods --- to
see that they are merely rather unusual variations on the common theme.

The various names used for God in the Old Testament conclusively show
that the monotheistic idea is the distillation of the worhsip of several
gods, which can be associated with identifiable celestial objects: e.g.
Adonai is clearly related to Adonis and Aten (really *Yatan), and
represents the sun. 'El, on the other hand, is a name for the North
Star, who/which was thought to be the ultimate creator of the Universe
in which other more active deities had their activities, associated with
the World Tree, which is the axis mundi.

Actually, I think that Sitchin and others have misinterpreted the
ancient records, and their ideas of MARDUK, etc. are only an amusing
flight of fancy but Sitchin has popularized some information which
otherwise would not have reached the public eye.

Pat

--
PATRICK C. RYAN {Pro...@mail.idt.net} * (501) 227-9947
9115 W. 34th St. * Little Rock, AR 72204-4441 * USA
Veit ek, at ek hekk, vindga meidhi, naetr allar niu,
geiri undadhr... a theim meidhi er mangi veit
hvers hann af rotum renn.' * (Havamal 138)
******************************************


John the ForeRunner

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

Gilgamesh

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>Yes, and I have *IT* and its two sequels.
>And I knew there was no moon claim...but Mr.Gilgamesh says Marduk's arrows
>were its moons.

A re-read of the '12th Planet' suggest that the 4 winds were the 4
moons of Marduk/Nibiru.
The 'arrrow' he refers to as 'divine lighting', Marduk shot this
arrow of Tiamat was already split.
Suggesting, accoding to Sitchin, that a Moon of Marduk hit Tiamat,
then as Marduk drew closer to, gravitational forces between the 2
planets increased causing the final damage to Tiamat.
Pages 224-225 of "The 12th Planet", by Sitchin.

Also this was not one pass by, this was over a period of many 10's of
thousands of years, many orbital passes.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Gilgamesh

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:

>I did not realize that one needed an "invitation" to join this silly
>discussion; why don;t you then simply deal with these matters by email
>and not clutter up a number of discussion groups with fantasy and
>fiction uner the guise of "analysis".

The discssion fits neatly under the heading, I see no reason why this
is not allowed in a group. Why do you waste time and width to judge
what should be allowed on a particular newsgroup or not? I am not
sitting in the halls of academia, I'm simply in a news group,
discussing topics that intrigue many persons here.

>Please, have your fun, but this
>is not a matter of "interpretation." If someone claimed that English
>"dog" meant "snowflake", no one would take that person seriously, and
>that is exactly the level of "knowledge" of Sumerian and Akkadian that
>Stichin has. No, it is not a matter of "interpretation," but of
>ignorance building on ignorance. There are no Nephilkim in Mesopotamian
>thought, so the whole thing is a silly distraction, the word simply is
>not found in any cuneiform text, period, and therefor no connetion with
>Marduk.

The Nephilim in some opnions are those who came down from Heaven.
The Sumerians may have preferred the word Annunaki. Since The
Sumerian writtings and the Bible are seperated by some 2000 years, but
are somewhat identical, (Creation, Flood), there seems room for
question. Besides Piotr your interpretations as well as all, will be
different 100 years from now. So maybe the Bible writers interperted
Nephilim for Annunaki. You think this is a science, ahhh, mere guess
work. And when additional guess work is based on guess work that is
wrong, well it leads to many other things being wrong.
So you are no more correct than Sitchin is wrong.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

Gilgamesh

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

David Mohr <dm...@plextor.com> wrote:

>Okay, I've got a couple of questions for all of you about all of this.
>Call me ignorant, but who is this Sitchin you keep talking about and
>what exactly has he written?

Sitchin has written about what he thinks the ancients encountered long
ago in our ancient history. That God was really an alien and so
forth. There is a core of reasoning behind it and even Carl Sagan
thought so.

>the Watch Tower Society's assertion that 144,000 folks get to meet the
>big guy and the end of the world is around the corner.

Or only 144,000 get lifted off this hell hole when the Mother Ships
come.


>
>As for what Douglas Weller wrote, well, it is considered bad manners and
>worse form to launch a personal attack during a debate.

New to the internet???

>Ruling out science, what then is the basis for Earth being a "broken
>world"? If the source of the "Earth is half of Tiamat" theory is
>somebody's writings, then why do you believe it?

There is a Sumerian Cylinder seal which shows our entire Solar System
plus one additional planet.

The Epic of Creation, written on 7 tablets (thus the 7 days of the
Bible), describing a certain celestial battle. This battle Sitchin
believes was the destruction of the Planet that is now the asteroid
belt. That asteroids, comets and our Earth all contain water on them,
reasoning they all came from this broken up planet. There is still
no Oort cloud many of us were taught in school that threw comets into
our solar system. (hale-bopp)

If the Earth really
>used to be a bigger planet and we got nailed by another big chuck of
>rock, who would still be around to record this? Wouldn't all life on
>both worlds be quite dead?

It was a Moon of Marduk/Nibiru that slammed into Tiamat.
"One of the 4 winds," as the epic of Creation mentions.


>
>One last thing: I assume all the referrences to Osiris, Isis, Tiamat,
>Marduk, et al are planets, stars, constellations and/or comets,
>correct?

As well as Gods.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Continuum

John the ForeRunner

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Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to

Dionysius fails have any desire to post according to the subject as
Marduk or Sitchin or Sumerian interpretation. He rather scoff the signature
as not belonging in newsgroups. Here is my answer.

> >A voice crying out and going unheard,

Dionysius wrote:
> We should be so lucky!!!

> >God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.

Dionysius wrote:
> According to who? I don't take the word of wanna-be-prophets.

You Dionysius is the one who in this post chooses to speak for your world
and how it feels about others who speak.


> >The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.

Dionysius wrote:
> Sorry, the year has ended and Clinton still rules! I only pray that
> there are not another 143,999 assholes like you out there!!
> Go join all the other pseudo-prophets, who came before you, and
> calculate another date for your "end-of-the-world-rapture" bullshit.

THE YEAR HAS NOT ENDED
only liars would claim my words apply to your pagan January 1 in
honor of Jannes the Egyptian who published Egyptian lies about Moses
as you heathens will soon be slaughtered by God as He slaughtered Jannes.
You will not die of old age but your blood will run upon the ground
as you deserve. You men labeled as killers of prophets means that you kill
men who discover and speak truth. Your turn has finally arrived to
have done to you what your predecessors have done to the prophets.

Kim Burkard

unread,
Jan 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/10/97
to
>> I have never asked that a particular thread be dropped from this
>>group - after all, I might be next. But I courteously suggest that the
>>threads dealing with Marduk et al. be removed from the mythology
>>newsgroup. For two reasons:
>>
>> Firstly, as the threads now stand, they are almost unintelligble
>>to the average reader of this newsgroup. I am no mental slouch, and I
>>admit to once or twice dabbling in the complicated relations of religious
>>texts, myths, astronomical bodies and their movements, and the
>>significance of numbers to all of them. But the threads are far too dense
>>for anyone but the smallest circle of cognoscenti. Can't you all open it
>>up a little? What's the *point* of your speculations and numbers-juggling?
>
>Nolo, I think your point is good. As a new reader/poster to this group, I read
>the Marduk threads and was worried that this group was all like that. A bunch
>of arguing over numbers and dates. In general, such arguments are silly since
>we really have no clue if any calendars are actually correct. Years have most
>certainly been forgotten, repeated, skipped, etc. throughout history since
>there was no one standard.
>
>However, I must say this: This is not a newsgroup of great volume. From what I
>have seen, there are only about 30-40 posts per day (maximum). Thus, is it
>really that harmful that 3 or 4 (or even 10) are about Marduk and number
>crunching?
>
>To their credit, they keep it in one thread. I read newsgroups where the
>idiots are so dense they will spread arguments and flame wars over 5 or 6
>threads (or more) making it impossible to avoid.
>
>Finally, this *is* an .alt newsgroup, which means it is extremely free form.
>Couple that with the low volume, the fact that the posters keep it in one
>thread, and I think maybe it isnt that big of a problem.


Since you are a new poster/reader of this newgroup you probably
didn't see the zillions of posts cross-posted to alt.mythology from the
author of the posts mentioned above and subsequent posters a couple of
months back. Most of the posts were related to his argument with another
person. It didn't take very long for those posts to escape any
connections that they may have once had with mythology. It was, as many
of the posts now are becoming, stuff that should have been kept to email
between those persons involved.

Now I really don't care that much about non-topic posts. The idiots who
spam their get-religion/get-cash-fast/buy-my-junk posts to every newsgroup
known to man make it to my killfile pretty fast if my newsserver
doesn't get rid of them for me. No problem. The occasional off-topic
post, again no problem. But these posts......they are kind of like
a cancer. They spread from one thread to another....from one newsgroup
to another. In fact, everytime John the Forerunner, Elijah, or whatever
his name is today posts he starts another thread for the same topic. No
killfile can keep up with that. We constantly get subjected to the rants,
the flames, the name-calling, etc. that exists on these threads. That's
not what we read this group for.

I've suggested to Elijah before to keep his posts to one or two threads
so those who want to read them can and those who want to avoid them can.
He's very rarely, if ever, done so. Every newsreader I've ever seen
allows you to followup or reply to a thread perserving the subject or
thread name. I think it's rude to other usenet citizens to keep
constantly changing the subject line.

Yes, this is an alt group and it is unmoderated. But since its name
is alt.mythology, the posts should be related to mythology. These
posts usually have very little if any mythological content.


-kim
---
Kimberly Burkard | _ Everything I needed to know in life, I
Eastman Kodak Company| _____C .._. learned from my ferret:
Rochester, New York | ____/ \___/ Frolic and dance for joy often, have
bur...@kodak.com |<____/\_---\_\ no fear or worries, and enjoy life.


Dan Yertzell

unread,
Jan 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/11/97
to


John the BoneHead <eli...@wi.net> wrote in article
<32D61A...@wi.net>...

- much gobbledygook deleted -

Jeez, where *do* you get this drivel? Do you just make it up as you go or
what?

You sound like the wacko street preachers in New York, screaming at people
as they walk by, totally ignoring them.

Get a grip. Get a life. The world will get along just fine, thank you.
People have been predicting the "End of the World" since the beginning of
the world. They've *all* been wrong. But of course, *you* are correct!
Riiiiiight!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I don't have to worry about paying my taxes this year, since we all
know the Great Comet is going to Kill Us All in March. Riiiiight!!!!!!

A voice crying out and annoying everyone,
40 times this week, John's JUBILEE of bullshit posts
God's 15 minutes of fame is about over in this newsgroup
144,000 more of these idiotic posts will occur before
John the BoneHead gets cancelled by his ISP for Spamming.

http://www.johnisafuckingmoronbutalksagreatsoundingrap.com

Jeff Hill

unread,
Jan 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/11/97
to

>In genesis iteself you find that man is created not once, but twice.
>Yes, it is all the same creation story, the bible ripped of a lot of
>info from the many stories that already existed, giving full praise
>to Yahweh.

An excellent way to begin to approach an understanding of the Genesis
myths, lies and nonsense partly invented by the Jews, partly imitated
by the Jews from older civilisations, is via Voltaire's "Philosophical
Dictionary" under the article entry "Genesis" - available at my site
near the bottom of the contents list:

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hillj/index.html

====================================================


- Jeff Hill
Sydney, Australia
hi...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hillj/index.html

How can you doubt that the god of the universe ordered one Jewish prophet to eat shit (Ezekiel iii. 15)?


Dionysius

unread,
Jan 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/11/97
to

>THE YEAR HAS NOT ENDED

Maybe in your mind it hasn't, but I don't see anyone else tallying
time by your warped out calculations!

>only liars would claim my words apply to your pagan January 1 in
>honor of Jannes the Egyptian who published Egyptian lies about Moses
>as you heathens will soon be slaughtered by God as He slaughtered Jannes.

Gimme a break!!! Only a relic like you would use the word "heathens".
You puffed up, condescending asshole! This is the ninties. Fire and
brimstone mentality went out of vogue about a century ago, except
maybe in more regressed areas of the rural south. Go move to the Bible
belt where you'll fit right in.

>You will not die of old age but your blood will run upon the ground

I think your brains must be running upon the ground. Do you really, I
mean REALLY believe this shit? If you do, that's both pathetic and
frightening that someone could be so far gone. What happened,......
too much Thorazine? One too many electroshock treatments?

>as you deserve. You men labeled as killers of prophets means that you kill
>men who discover and speak truth. Your turn has finally arrived to
>have done to you what your predecessors have done to the prophets.

When I encounter "frothing at the mouth" biblical zealots, like you,
I am even more grateful that I am a Pagan! You are a perfect case
study of what happens when a person gets too much christianity on the
brain! Nobody profits from wanna-be-"prophets" like you. Go preach
your puke to third world morons, People are way too educated on this
newsgroup to buy your bullshit!

>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at

http://www.delusions_of_grandure/psychotic/non-prophet.org


We be Jammin'!.......D


James Harvey

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Jan 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/11/97
to

In article <5b18u5$7...@banani.complex.is>, fr...@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) writes:
> In <32D36E...@wi.net> John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> writes:
>
>>it is not because I stamp huffily out of town for being ignored, but because the
>>wicked push me out there, or chase me to kill those they do not want to hear.
>
[frisk's speculations on the state of Mr. Schiller's mental health elided]
>
> And yes, Richard Schiller, (that *IS* you real name, right ?) ... are
> you still predicting a comet strike in March ? If so, what are you
> going to do if/when no comet shows up ?

Hmm... sounds to me like he might be in some hot water...

My hand will be against the prophets who see delusive visions and who
give lying divinations; they shall not be in the council of my people,
nor be enrolled in the register of the house of Israel, nor shall they
enter the land of Israel; and you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
-- Ezekial 13:9 (RSV)
--
James Harvey har...@iupui.edu Disclaimer: My opinions; I don't speak for IU.

g...@3-cities.com

unread,
Jan 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/11/97
to

John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>Dionysius fails have any desire to post according to the subject as
>Marduk or Sitchin or Sumerian interpretation. He rather scoff the signature
>as not belonging in newsgroups. Here is my answer.

Fuck off puke.

You're nothing but bullshit.

Geo


Douglas Weller

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Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to

On Fri, 10 Jan 97 13:28:36 GMT, mac...@ix.netcom.com (ThresholdMUD) wrote:

[SNIP]

>Finally, this *is* an .alt newsgroup, which means it is extremely free form.
>Couple that with the low volume, the fact that the posters keep it in one
>thread, and I think maybe it isnt that big of a problem.
>

I agreed with everything you said until I got to the above. Please, 'alt'
refers to the creation process for the newsgroup, not the content. Because
anyone can create an 'alt' group, some are very freeform, some I read are
extremely serious with virtually no offtopic or nonsense.
--
Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
Requests To: arch-mo...@ucl.ac.uk
Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details


Sentinel

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Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to

snip
>
> Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
> planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
> in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?
> --
> Doug Weller
>

Well since this is a public forum would you cite me a reference,
that is obtainable, to prove that Sitchin is wrong and that the earth
could not be "half of a former planet" or other body.


Douglas Weller

unread,
Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:23:33 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

And you are showing your ignorance once again. Translating Sumerian isn't a
matter of guessing what the symbols mean, no matter how often you make the
claim. Ignorance is not the same as knowledge. Sitchin knows less than a
school kid about astronomy and geology as well as Sumerian.

Douglas Weller

unread,
Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to

On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:39:53 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

>
>There is a Sumerian Cylinder seal which shows our entire Solar System
>plus one additional planet.

That's just your guess, remember? Or rather Sitchin's. No reason to say he's
right after all, according to your reasoning with Piotr. It's a small point
that no one else agrees with Sitchin.

>The Epic of Creation, written on 7 tablets (thus the 7 days of the
>Bible), describing a certain celestial battle. This battle Sitchin
>believes was the destruction of the Planet that is now the asteroid
>belt. That asteroids, comets and our Earth all contain water on them,
>reasoning they all came from this broken up planet.

What kind of reasoning is this? One commonality means they all come from the
same source? Mars has water, Venus may, some of the moons of other planets, so
they must come from the same planet, eh? And if they share any other molecules
with other planets, then they all ....

> There is still
>no Oort cloud many of us were taught in school that threw comets into
>our solar system. (hale-bopp)

There is still? What do you mean here?

August Matthusen

unread,
Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to

Sentinel wrote:

>Doug Weller wrote:
> snip
>>
>> Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
>> planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
>> in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?
>
> Well since this is a public forum would you cite me a reference,
> that is obtainable, to prove that Sitchin is wrong and that the earth
> could not be "half of a former planet" or other body.

Sure, right after you provide a reference that "proves"
invisble pink unicorns(tm) do not exist. In the mean time,
you may want to try reading some intro geology texts
(found in any library) which provide evidence for the
formation and history of the Earth.

Regards,
August Matthusen

ForeRunner John

unread,
Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
to Gilgamesh

TO what Gilgamesh wrote:

* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *
You are so sold on Sitchin's interpretation that you
totally refuse to even look at the logic of the real story
which observes Mars for 52 Sumerian years and
then at the end of these 52 years (Apr 2060-July 2009 BC)
counts 7 periods of 52-year Marduk from
Creation by Noah's Flood until this year which creates Marduk as
a calendar god. The fact that Marduk measures FROM the Flood
is equally supported by the debate of whether preMarduk years
were measured as Egyptian 937 AM from the Flood or
Sumerian 950 AM from the Flood. (950 is the days of Noah
and 936 Egyptian = 949 Sumerian = 438 of 780-day Mars)
Thus the debate of Greek 2958 BC or Babylon 2947 BC for Noah's Flood
which was really 2370 BC (Marduk's 7 days are 7x 52 sumerian
which measure from Oct 1 of 2368- July 8 of 2009 BC).
[Greek Flood of 2958 BC has a 2956 BC Marduk and is Sothic to 776 BC era,
Babylon Flood 2947 BC is Sothic to 747 BC era.]

* MARDUK COUNTS TO ARMAGEDDONS 6000 *
The fact that the year 2009 BC is
Sumerian 2022 AM from 4025 BC
Egyptian 2017 AM from the same 4025 BC
proves the year of Adam's creation when observing the fact that
the Sumerian 2022 AM can measure 780-day Mars as a 13-year
New Year cycle to New Year 6000 AM, and
the Egyptian 2017 AM of 2016 years can measure 83-year Jupiter as
meeting the oriental DRAGON-year every 996y to 6000 years.

* TOWER AND PYRAMID COUNT TO ARMAGEDDON *
This verifies claims already made that the Pyramid
(as a product not just the Great Pyramid)
and the Tower (as a product not just of Babel)
were devices expected to count time not merely for saving civilian citizens]
annually thru seasons but thru the FINAL end or global disaster the
rest of the world amplifies by their heathen ways.

* LISTENING EARS *
Mr.Gilgamesh you are so wrapped up in supporting Sitchin and
seeking to explain him to us nonlisteners that you over look a more
accurate story which I take time to post for you. Just has criminals
whores and taxmen were more easily converted to good conduct
of following Jesus, so too the pseudo-science sci-fi crowd CAN BE
more easily converted to God's truth than the scholars who lead the
world and throw fits when others undermine their lead.
So stop, listen, and ask sincere questions...and you will live.

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,
(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif

Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

g...@3-cities.com

unread,
Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>> Your mouth seems pretty big to me since you make statements without any
>> evidence.
>> Martin Fox

>I am aware that my research

Your speculation couldn't even rate as bad grammer.

Geo


Dionysius

unread,
Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

>John the Foreskin wrote:

>* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *
>You are so sold on Sitchin's interpretation that you
>totally refuse to even look at the logic of the real story

What "real" story might that be? The one that's hopelessly obscurred
within the smegma you're spewing?

>which observes Mars for 52 Sumerian years and
>then at the end of these 52 years (Apr 2060-July 2009 BC)
>counts 7 periods of 52-year Marduk from

This must all be your version of concocted digital dimentia!

>Creation by Noah's Flood until this year which creates Marduk as
>a calendar god. The fact that Marduk measures FROM the Flood
>is equally supported by the debate of whether preMarduk years
>were measured as Egyptian 937 AM from the Flood or
>Sumerian 950 AM from the Flood. (950 is the days of Noah
>and 936 Egyptian = 949 Sumerian = 438 of 780-day Mars)
>Thus the debate of Greek 2958 BC or Babylon 2947 BC for Noah's Flood
>which was really 2370 BC (Marduk's 7 days are 7x 52 sumerian
>which measure from Oct 1 of 2368- July 8 of 2009 BC).
>[Greek Flood of 2958 BC has a 2956 BC Marduk and is Sothic to 776 BC era,
>Babylon Flood 2947 BC is Sothic to 747 BC era.]

You bounce all over the fucking place like a classic schizophrenic!
You're in your own little pathetic lonely world of delluded dates and
numbed out numbers. Nobody can possibly follow this dribble, even you!
I bet you couldn't repeat it if your life depended on it.

>* MARDUK COUNTS TO ARMAGEDDONS 6000 *
>The fact that the year 2009 BC is
>Sumerian 2022 AM from 4025 BC
>Egyptian 2017 AM from the same 4025 BC
>proves the year of Adam's creation when observing the fact that
>the Sumerian 2022 AM can measure 780-day Mars as a 13-year
>New Year cycle to New Year 6000 AM, and
>the Egyptian 2017 AM of 2016 years can measure 83-year Jupiter as
>meeting the oriental DRAGON-year every 996y to 6000 years.

Another cluster-fuck of tainted temporal trivia, designed exclusively
to confuse, intimidate and alienate the masses. You're so cloaked in
ka ka, that nobody could possibly decipher these dellusions. There's
not even any reward in attempting to do so. It's all the empty,
pathetic ramblings of a wanna-be-prophet, who posts ad-nauseum and
says NOTHING!!!

>* TOWER AND PYRAMID COUNT TO ARMAGEDDON *
>This verifies claims already made that the Pyramid
>(as a product not just the Great Pyramid)
>and the Tower (as a product not just of Babel)
>were devices expected to count time not merely for saving civilian citizens]
>annually thru seasons but thru the FINAL end or global disaster the
>rest of the world amplifies by their heathen ways.

>* LISTENING EARS *
>Mr.Gilgamesh you are so wrapped up in supporting Sitchin and
>seeking to explain him to us nonlisteners that you over look a more
>accurate story which I take time to post for you.

"Accurate" story?? HAAA!!! That's a laugh!! According to who? What's
your source? Oh, I suppose that it's "god", speaking to you while you
float in your Thorazine stupor!

> Just has criminals
>whores and taxmen were more easily converted to good conduct
>of following Jesus, so too the pseudo-science sci-fi crowd CAN BE
>more easily converted to God's truth than the scholars

You can't seriously be referring to yourself as a "scholar" here!!!
How grandiose, that you can even remotely consider this
psycho/pseudo-religious babble to be "scholarly"

> who lead the
>world and throw fits when others undermine their lead.

>So stop, listen, and ask sincere questions....

By doing that, we will quickly come to see how your continued posting
here is a complete and total waste of time. Go preach from the
fountain's edge in Washington Square Park, where all the other psychos
and riff raff wind up. You're sure to find a suitable audience there!!

>************
>A voice crying out and going unheard,

(We should be so lucky!!)


>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at

>http://www.john_the _foreskin/loser/non-prophet.org

har...@indyvax.iupui.edu

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

In article <5b18u5$7...@banani.complex.is>,

fr...@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) wrote:
> In <32D36E...@wi.net> John the ForeRunner <eli...@wi.net> writes:
> >it is not because I stamp huffily out of town for being ignored, but because
the
> >wicked push me out there, or chase me to kill those they do not want to hear.

[archaeology newsgroups removed from Newsgroups header and followups,
since this has absolutely nothing at all to do with archaeology]

[Fridrik's speculations on Richard's state of mental health elided, snip]

> And yes, Richard Schiller, (that *IS* you real name, right ?) ... are
> you still predicting a comet strike in March ? If so, what are you
> going to do if/when no comet shows up ?

Well, perhaps it will give him a good excuse to leave the JW cult.



My hand will be against the prophets who see delusive visions and who
give lying divinations; they shall not be in the council of my people,
nor be enrolled in the register of the house of Israel, nor shall they
enter the land of Israel; and you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

-- Ezekial 13:9.


--
James Harvey har...@iupui.edu Disclaimer: My opinions; I don't speak for IU.

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Gilgamesh

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

ForeRunner John <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>TO what Gilgamesh wrote:
>* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *
>You are so sold on Sitchin's interpretation that you
>totally refuse to even look at the logic of the real story

>which observes Mars for 52 Sumerian years and
>then at the end of these 52 years (Apr 2060-July 2009 BC)
>counts 7 periods of 52-year Marduk from

>Creation by Noah's Flood until this year which creates Marduk as
>a calendar god.

I'm not sold on Sitchin, a little but not totally. But I can't even
follow what you could possibly be saying. Yes the GPOG could be a
large time piece, but again i can't follow at all what you are trying
to say, it's beyond my reasoning. By why do you use Noah's flood in
particular, when you know the stroy comes from the Sumerians 2000
years before? And even before then?.....

>* LISTENING EARS *
>Mr.Gilgamesh you are so wrapped up in supporting Sitchin and
>seeking to explain him to us nonlisteners that you over look a more
>accurate story which I take time to post for you.

Again, can't understand what you are trying to say.

> Just has criminals
>whores and taxmen were more easily converted to good conduct
>of following Jesus, so too the pseudo-science sci-fi crowd CAN BE

>more easily converted to God's truth than the scholars who lead the


>world and throw fits when others undermine their lead.

>So stop, listen, and ask sincere questions...and you will live.

If you are referring to 'gods' truth as found in the the bible, again
Genesis in particular is just a copy of Sumerian Writtings, and not a
very good copy, suggesting that there was about 2000 years of orallly
transmitted information. And Gods Truth in the Bible is merely
whoever won the 'war' wrote the history.
I'm not and have not bashed you at all john, so cotinue but try to
clear some things up, and make it more understandable to a laymen.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> wrote:

>The Nephilim/Anunaki connection is an invention that has no logical or
>linguistic connection.

Then why was the word 'giants' ever chosen to be used in the bible?
Were the Nephilim of large build, as sometimes witnessed on pictorial
cylinder seals, the Anunnaki those being the Gods of Sumerian so
called myth?
Both Nephilim and Anunnaki describe things that are either "alien"(no
not UFO) or foriegn to the common background of the the society that
these words were written in. And both came down from the heavens.
That the Nephilim in the bible interbred with the women of the earth,
creating heroes of old.
That the Anunnaki also interbred with both males and females of earth.
Thus the hero of old, Gilgamesh, was a product of this intervention.
Thus the connection between Nephilim and Annunaki. IS there no sense
in this? No matter how absurd, how is this not logical? For we both
know that Genesis is a copy of these older sumerian writtings. And
most likely not a very good copy.

> We really do know Sumerian and
>Akkadian and if anyone tried to do what he does with these languages to
>Latin, Polish or English, no one would waste time or paper on him. It
>is only people who do not know these languages who do so.

No this is not right. His translations are just as good as scholary
intepretations. It is what he derives from the stories that possibly
shed light onto the meaning of these 'myths'. Which is what you deem
them to be, regardless of the knowledge contained in them. Regardless
if these myths are scientific endeavors, rather than stories to keep
the mass of people happy. That cylinder seal VA/243, found in a
museum in East Berlin, contains the picture of our Solar System, with
the sun being in the center, and the relative order and sizes of the
planets in our system. And includes on additional planet between Mars
and Jupiter, where the asteroid belt is now.

SO if pictorial cylinder seals give us scientific information, than
many of the 'myths' may also contain scientific information. Which is
what you think is not the case. You deem them simply as matters of
creative writtings.


Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:39:53 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
>wrote:
>>There is a Sumerian Cylinder seal which shows our entire Solar System
>>plus one additional planet.
>
>That's just your guess, remember? Or rather Sitchin's. No reason to say he's
>right after all, according to your reasoning with Piotr. It's a small point
>that no one else agrees with Sitchin.

Then please tell me what the cylinder seal represents. It clearly
shows a sun, with rays coming forth from it, and planets in relative
size and order. It should have been impossible for the Sumerians to
have known about Uranus and Neptune, represented as both being the
same size on the edge of our solar system, and a planet sitting where
the asteroid belt is now. And that the sun is the center of our solar
system not the earth. This is not a small point at all. It may
verify the affinity of knowledge that the Sumerians may have held,
leading one to question what other 'facts' they knew about. Why would
you claim this as a small point? Because it gives them the status of
knowing more than they should have, under the scholary dictionary of
the ancient knowledge base. This is what scares the scholars more
than anything, that by undermining such knowledge they may be missing
important clues in the guess work.
This is a picture, not words, thus the point should not be taken
lightly as you wish to view it.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to
>formation and history of the Earth.

Even a geology text would be a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
how planets are formed. Possibly there was a planet in the asteroid
belt, not a fact that is too far out there. Possibly something did
smash into it. Then quite possibly chunks of that planet, containing
water did crash into such places as Earth and Mars. Mars has very
intresting craters, usually located in more localized regions on the
planet, rather than all over like our Moon.
Suggesting that at one point a great mass of material struck Mars all
at once, thus its demise as a hospitable planets some aeons ago.
Now our Moon is kind of an oddball in relation to other moons around
other planets.
It is to big and too far from the earth. (not to say Phobos around
mars is anything but oddball) But our moon does not really fit in.

Thus Sitchin has sumarzied that the our moon was once a part of the
Planet (Tiamat) that is now the asteroid belt. Which in a way would
make sense. If a great destruction occured, the Moon being next to
Tiamat would have rc'd a heavy blow of material, forming hundreds of
thousands of craters. And the Moon has water on it as well. From
chunks that smashed into it from the Watery Planet of the asteroid
belt Tiamat. So those chunks may have affected our planet as well,
maybe not totally creating it, but providing our planet with H2O.
Thus it stands to reason that asteroids, comets, earth, moon, mars,
all containg water was a product of this destruction. Though
unprovable in the least.

But looking at even Uranus, which lies on its side, by no means
explainable or predictable, and Pluto, being too small to be a planet
(lately Plutos planet designation has been questioned, a moon of some
other planet almost without doubt) and having an orbit that will
bring it inside/between Neptune and Uranus then it would seem somewhat
conclusive that at some time in the past there has been great
turbulence in our solar system. Planet X, Nibiru, Marduk who knows.
But something likes to visit every so often, leaving a wake of
destruction. And Hale-Bopp is merely the aftermath, as well as
Halley's Comet, and ShoeMaker-Levy and the hundreds of other comets
and asteroids tumbling through space. The garbage of a great
destruction. And to quickly point out that most star systems are
Binary, are we binary and don't realize it yet??

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
to

dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:

>And you are showing your ignorance once again. Translating Sumerian isn't a
>matter of guessing what the symbols mean, no matter how often you make the
>claim. Ignorance is not the same as knowledge. Sitchin knows less than a
>school kid about astronomy and geology as well as Sumerian.

You are fooling yourself to think that interpretation is an exact
science. Why is it that every scholar could come up with a different,
not always totally different, interpretation? Your poking at Sitchin
is fine, but you have the audacity to cite other scholars in the
field, who are no more or less aware of other sciences.
Piotr, for example, may be good at translations, but does he know
anything of astronomy? This is to say, that if ancient texts are
dealing with astronomy, not some mythological story, then how would a
a person such as Piotr know the difference, being of one academic
background. And since the stories are already deemed 'myth', then
again your so called science of translation is already a mess, and
made conclusions well before they had a right to. Thus your science
is in critical error. Again I must add that a fact based on
previously in-correct facts, is still considered a fact by the
establishment of 'science'. Thus why paradigm shifts are always
disturbing to establishment.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Nolo

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to


On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, John the ForeRunner wrote:

Before I answer: First off - ah, I get it, he's changed his
'handle'! (or does that date my introduction to technology to the
Cretaceous Age of CB's?) Well, it's easier to spell - I kept seeing
Eliyahoo, or the like. Sorry.

> Sitchin is like Velichovsky who thinks humans were dropped off by UFOs.
> But though I consider him a quack for UFOs
> (and not myself a quack for believing the Bible as reality) these men feel
> I am like him in absurdity.

Alas, I will not answer Eli-whatsit directly - I'm sorry, man,
but you'll notice I chose a name almost impossible to misspell - but I did
think that Eli/John's (d'ye mind Eli? easier for me) theories sounded
rather of the same kind as Velikovski's. Well, wet's find owt!

For those who fell asleep in class about fifteen years ago,
Velikovski claimed that ancient mythology - especially Greek and Hebrew -
was directly related to catastrophic events in the Solar system. So,
Aphrodite/Venus born from the head of Zeus/Jupiter relates in story the
actual ejection of Venus from Jupiter; the animosity between Venus and
Ares/Mars relates the actual near collision of this rogue comet with the
red planet; and so forth etc. The celestial mechanics alone - never
mind how it cheapens myths - were so outrageous that cosmologists and
planetary scientists just ignored him for a long time - it is
professionally dangerous as well as time-consuming for 'serious'
scientists to attempt debate with those felt to be cranks in the
scientific community ( I withold comment on whether this as always
advisable).

But finally, there were enough people claiming cover up that
several scientists did reply - devastatingly, in my estimation. As
Chesterton writes, the impossible is more likely than the improbable: an
angel may exist, for the Universe is a big place and I am ignorant - but I
*know* planets from my arse, and they *don't* do those things.

Velikovski was not a UFO aficionado, however; that much I can
decisively counter Eli/John on. He actually was a devout, orthodox Jew,
and he was looking to buttress every event in the Pentateuch with actual
events which would yield real evidence.

I am a very orthodox Christian (Oh Hell, why not say it out loud
and proud?), but I have very little sympathy with this kind of truncated
way of thinking. The Raymond Lulls of the world have done more to make the
anti-religious smack their collective lips than any wild-eyed mystic.

Martin Gardner, who for years wrote 'Mathematical Recreations' for
*Scientific American*, has some very trenchant points about this in more
than one of his books. I recommend them highly.

And as Herodotus, 'Gift of Hera', would say, let this suffice
about Velikovski.

Nolo

Oops, and now why I lump Eli with Vel:

> That WT point is for their benefit only, and the end of the world bit
> only leads people to safety. The data itself is wone of chronology,
> history, astronomy calendars...how our society evolved according to
> Bible chronology accounting for all nations from Noah's family.

Well, to the posters of alt.mythology, I rest my case that
Eli/John is of the same stripe as Velikovski (tho' maybe not with V's
catastrophism). You'll see variations of this in creationist proofs of the
Universal Flood.

Nolo, the Rash.

ForeRunner John

unread,
Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to Dionysius

> >John the Foreskin wrote:
> >* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *
> >You are so sold on Sitchin's interpretation that you
> >totally refuse to even look at the logic of the real story

Dionysius wrote:
> What "real" story might that be?

> >John the Foreskin wrote:
By REAL, I refer not to my own interpretation as being real versus yours.
I mean not to eaxlt myself. By REAL I mean the real cycle of the planet
Mars according to astronomy and according to known ancient calendar
claims such as MARS is averaged as 780 days.

> The one that's hopelessly obscurred within the smegma you're spewing?

> >John the Foreskin wrote:
Those throwing allegations cannot be taught. BUT I am fully capable of
explaining any questions which are raised by people confused over my
bad form of presentation.

> >which observes Mars for 52 Sumerian years and
> >then at the end of these 52 years (Apr 2060-July 2009 BC)
> >counts 7 periods of 52-year Marduk from

> This must all be your version of concocted digital dimentia!

No it is not. Eusebius says Ninus is the founder of Ninevah and ruled
52 years. Moslem tradition says it was Nimrod who lived 500 years.
Josephus who knows Noah lived 950 yrs says that Noah reigned 950 yrs.
Eusebius says that Ninus died in 2007 BC and that the Olympiad was 774 BC.
Is it my dimentia to realize that the 776 BC Olympiad would produce a 2009 BC
date for this? Inumerable sources say that Merodach or Marduk observes
Nimrod's death. So who is concocting?

> >Creation by Noah's Flood until this year which creates Marduk as

> >a calendar god. The fact that Marduk measures FROM the Flood
> >is equally supported by the debate of whether preMarduk years
> >were measured as Egyptian 937 AM from the Flood or
> >Sumerian 950 AM from the Flood. (950 is the days of Noah
> >and 936 Egyptian = 949 Sumerian = 438 of 780-day Mars)
> >Thus the debate of Greek 2958 BC or Babylon 2947 BC for Noah's Flood
> >which was really 2370 BC (Marduk's 7 days are 7x 52 sumerian
> >which measure from Oct 1 of 2368- July 8 of 2009 BC).
> >[Greek Flood of 2958 BC has a 2956 BC Marduk and is Sothic to 776 BC era,
> >Babylon Flood 2947 BC is Sothic to 747 BC era.]

> You bounce all over the fucking place like a classic schizophrenic!
> You're in your own little pathetic lonely world of delluded dates and
> numbed out numbers. Nobody can possibly follow this dribble, even you!
> I bet you couldn't repeat it if your life depended on it.

INCORRECT...I could repeat and explain every detail.
Measuring from CREATION (by Noah's Flood) to Marduk the first appearance
of Mars every 780 days has two major versions, the biblical and the secular.
The biblical is 364 Sumerian yrs (131,040d = 168x 780d Mars) to July 8 of 2009 BC.
The secular argues 949 Egyptian yrs or 949 Sumerian yrs (=936 Egyptian).
Get a calculator 936x 365d = 341,640d = 949x 360d
But this disagrees with the 7 tablets being 7 days from creation to creation of Marduk.
7x 52y = 364y so that the biblical is the correct Marduk

> >* MARDUK COUNTS TO ARMAGEDDONS 6000 *
> >The fact that the year 2009 BC is
> >Sumerian 2022 AM from 4025 BC
> >Egyptian 2017 AM from the same 4025 BC
> >proves the year of Adam's creation when observing the fact that
> >the Sumerian 2022 AM can measure 780-day Mars as a 13-year
> >New Year cycle to New Year 6000 AM, and
> >the Egyptian 2017 AM of 2016 years can measure 83-year Jupiter as
> >meeting the oriental DRAGON-year every 996y to 6000 years.

> Another cluster-fuck of tainted temporal trivia, designed exclusively
> to confuse, intimidate and alienate the masses. You're so cloaked in
> ka ka, that nobody could possibly decipher these dellusions. There's
> not even any reward in attempting to do so. It's all the empty,
> pathetic ramblings of a wanna-be-prophet, who posts ad-nauseum and
> says NOTHING!!!

I challenge any person who does not view me with a mouthful of
ellaborate adjectives to respond with questions so that the readers can
see me personally explain to someone how the Marduk calendar works.

> >* LISTENING EARS *
> >Mr.Gilgamesh you are so wrapped up in supporting Sitchin and
> >seeking to explain him to us nonlisteners that you over look a more
> >accurate story which I take time to post for you.

> > Just as criminals


> >whores and taxmen were more easily converted to good conduct
> >of following Jesus, so too the pseudo-science sci-fi crowd CAN BE
> >more easily converted to God's truth than the scholars

> You can't seriously be referring to yourself as a "scholar" here!!!


> How grandiose, that you can even remotely consider this
> psycho/pseudo-religious babble to be "scholarly"

You reveal your shallow intellect. I said the BIble tells us that
whores criminals and taxman will convert their lives easier than those
like you who claim to be scholars. A Sitchin follower can be converted by
God much easier than university scholars can be converted by God.
This is because university scholars feel they have truth without God
and therefore do not need his truth which will soon determine life and death.



************
A voice crying out and going unheard,

(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif

Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

ForeRunner John

unread,
Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to Gilgamesh

The problem with Sitchin is not his asteroid or planet etc.
His problem is that of taking all texts as totally interpreted contrary to known
interpretations for 4000 years. He presumes ALL sources to be misinterpreted
renditions in need of his revising to his narrative. This is flagrant
disrespect for what millions of human scholars have written over the past
4000 years as if they all have misinterpreted, deliberately lied, or
boasted or fabricated. You are NOT a scholar if there are no records at all
which you accept at face value. When you choose your own intepretation
in ALL facets, topics, discussions, etc you have then made yourself an island,
a leader of lies. How can accepting the Bible be more ludicrous than
fabricating from scratch. Do you have no respect for all those who earnestly
zealously lived and died to preserve truth, that you think NO TRUTH has
ever survived in 4000 yrs?

David Mohr

unread,
Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to Nolo

Thanks!

That little explanation made loads more sense. Like I posted before,
I'm familiar with myths, but had no idea why folks were arguing that
Orion was Osiris or why Mars' such-and-such calendar falls into 13
months, 12 hours and 4 pennies.

So, again at the risk of looking a bit niave, this entire discussion is
based on the premise that many of the major mythical figures can be
equated to their like-named planets/stars/commets/constellations and
that the (supposed) interaction of these stellar bodies is the
inspiration of these myths, i.e. maybe when Uranus was "overthrown" by
Zeus/Jupiter what the ancients were "really trying to say" that the
planet Jupiter interacted with the planet Uranus and knocked into
another orbit? Am I on the right track? (And in need of a STRONG dose
of reality/physics if I believe all of this could happen)

All this being the case, I am extremely curious which astrological
phenomena represent the Great Flood and why. Along the same lines, what
date does this put the Flood at? Anyone have any interesting theories
along these lines?

To be frank, I feel too many cultures have the Flood myth in common for
something along these lines not to have happened. I'm looking for data
along these lines, even if it disproves my theory. Can anyone out there
help?

Thanks a bunch,
David

August Matthusen

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to

Gilgamesh wrote:
>
> August Matthusen <matt...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Sentinel wrote:
> >>Doug Weller wrote:
> >> snip
> >>> Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
> >>> planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
> >>> in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?
> >>
> >> Well since this is a public forum would you cite me a reference,
> >> that is obtainable, to prove that Sitchin is wrong and that the earth
> >> could not be "half of a former planet" or other body.
> >
> >Sure, right after you provide a reference that "proves"
> >invisble pink unicorns(tm) do not exist. In the mean time,
> >you may want to try reading some intro geology texts
> >(found in any library) which provide evidence for the
> >formation and history of the Earth.
>
> Even a geology text would be a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
> how planets are formed.

That isn't what I wrote.

> Possibly there was a planet in the asteroid
> belt, not a fact that is too far out there. Possibly something did
> smash into it. Then quite possibly chunks of that planet, containing
> water did crash into such places as Earth and Mars. Mars has very
> intresting craters, usually located in more localized regions on the
> planet, rather than all over like our Moon.
> Suggesting that at one point a great mass of material struck Mars all
> at once, thus its demise as a hospitable planets some aeons ago.
> Now our Moon is kind of an oddball in relation to other moons around
> other planets.
> It is to big and too far from the earth. (not to say Phobos around
> mars is anything but oddball) But our moon does not really fit in.
>
> Thus Sitchin has sumarzied that the our moon was once a part of the
> Planet (Tiamat) that is now the asteroid belt.

I see. Geology texts are "a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
how planets are formed." but it's ok for Sitchin to know exactly
how the planets were formed.

> Which in a way would
> make sense. If a great destruction occured, the Moon being next to
> Tiamat would have rc'd a heavy blow of material, forming hundreds of
> thousands of craters. And the Moon has water on it as well. From
> chunks that smashed into it from the Watery Planet of the asteroid
> belt Tiamat. So those chunks may have affected our planet as well,
> maybe not totally creating it, but providing our planet with H2O.
> Thus it stands to reason that asteroids, comets, earth, moon, mars,
> all containg water was a product of this destruction. Though
> unprovable in the least.

For sure, as well as untestable. When is all of this supposed
to have occurred?

Regards,
August Matthusen

Douglas Weller

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:50:38 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

>August Matthusen <matt...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Sentinel wrote:
>>>Doug Weller wrote:
>>> snip
>>>> Jason, John is dribbling -- and there is no way Earth is half of a former
>>>> planet. That's Sitchin showing his ignorance again, this time of geology. Why
>>>> in the world do you think Sitchin has any competence in geology?
>>>
>>> Well since this is a public forum would you cite me a reference,
>>> that is obtainable, to prove that Sitchin is wrong and that the earth
>>> could not be "half of a former planet" or other body.
>>
>>Sure, right after you provide a reference that "proves"
>>invisble pink unicorns(tm) do not exist. In the mean time,
>>you may want to try reading some intro geology texts
>>(found in any library) which provide evidence for the
>>formation and history of the Earth.
>
>Even a geology text would be a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
>how planets are formed.

Which is why no one would do that. But that's not the same thing as having no
idea. Geologists do have a pretty good idea as to the composition of the
earth, and the idea that it's made out of the broken off half of a planet is
ludicrous.


[SNIP]

>belt Tiamat. So those chunks may have affected our planet as well,
>maybe not totally creating it, but providing our planet with H2O.

Is it you or Sitchin who is now saying that the Earth isn't half a broken
planet? If it's you, what are your qualifications, at least, what geology
texts have you read dealing with these issues?

>Thus it stands to reason that asteroids, comets, earth, moon, mars,
>all containg water was a product of this destruction. Though
>unprovable in the least.

It stands to reason? How? This is just a guess on your part as far as I can
see, there's no theory behind it.

[SNIP]

>and asteroids tumbling through space. The garbage of a great
>destruction. And to quickly point out that most star systems are
>Binary, are we binary and don't realize it yet??

Ok, you say most star systems are binary. Just out of curiousity, what's your
cite for this?

Peter M. Hilton

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to

In article <32D8F3...@wi.net>, eli...@wi.net says...

>
>TO what Gilgamesh wrote:
>
>* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *

snipabit


776 BC era,
>Babylon Flood 2947 BC is Sothic to 747 BC era.]
>

>* MARDUK COUNTS TO ARMAGEDDONS 6000 *
>The fact that the year 2009 BC is

snipsmoemore

6000 years.


>
>* TOWER AND PYRAMID COUNT TO ARMAGEDDON *

>snippithere

>* LISTENING EARS *
snippitthere


>
>************
>A voice crying out and going unheard,

***Now THAT much I'll go along with***


>
>Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at

> (irrelevant URL snipped - with apologies to the
original prophet)


But if you bother to learn just a bit of Greek and just
a bit of Hebrew, you wouldn't/couldn't make such very
astonishingly infantile & TOTALLY INSUPPORTABLE
abberational claims.

Learn to understand what the Bible (ANY of them) *means*
and forget what they *say* and you'll be far ahead of
the game.

Regards, Pete


Kaleen Reed

unread,
Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to gilg...@cyberconnect.com

Gilgamesh:

I commend you for re-stating the heart of Stichin's message without
depending on some of his more far-fetched statements. If Stichin were
able to express this as well as you, more people would believe what is
being said. Too often people argue about details and miss the point.

Thanks for your "take".

Regards,
Kaleen

Douglas Weller

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:51:08 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:


[SNIP]

>No this is not right. His translations are just as good as scholary
>intepretations.

Jason, how do you know this? Have you studied Sumerian and checked them? Or,
are you quoting from someone else who has studied Sumerian and agrees with
him? You haven't, have you? Do you really think we don't know how to translate
Sumerian? If so, what is your basis for this?

It is what he derives from the stories that possibly
>shed light onto the meaning of these 'myths'.

No, his translations are key. If they are wrong, his whole edifice collapses.

Douglas Weller

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:51:12 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
wrote:

>dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:39:53 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
>>wrote:
>>>There is a Sumerian Cylinder seal which shows our entire Solar System
>>>plus one additional planet.
>>
>>That's just your guess, remember? Or rather Sitchin's. No reason to say he's
>>right after all, according to your reasoning with Piotr. It's a small point
>>that no one else agrees with Sitchin.
>
>Then please tell me what the cylinder seal represents. It clearly
>shows a sun, with rays coming forth from it, and planets in relative
>size and order.

No, you simply buy Sitchin's interpretation of what it shows. There's no
clearly to it. It's an INTERPRETATION>.

It should have been impossible for the Sumerians to
>have known about Uranus and Neptune, represented as both being the
>same size on the edge of our solar system, and a planet sitting where
>the asteroid belt is now.

Hm, a planet that never existed then.

And that the sun is the center of our solar
>system not the earth. This is not a small point at all. It may
>verify the affinity of knowledge that the Sumerians may have held,
>leading one to question what other 'facts' they knew about. Why would
>you claim this as a small point?

I haven't done this. I don't accept the interpretation, so there aren't any
points.

[SNIP]

>This is a picture, not words, thus the point should not be taken
>lightly as you wish to view it.

These are images, representations, not words, and interpretation of images
thousands of years old should not be taken lightly.

Gilgamesh

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

gilgamesh

>>Even a geology text would be a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
>>how planets are formed.
Doug Weller

>Which is why no one would do that. But that's not the same thing as having no
>idea. Geologists do have a pretty good idea as to the composition of the
>earth, and the idea that it's made out of the broken off half of a planet is
>ludicrous.

You said it there Doug, composition. Not formation of a given planet.
And not re-formation of a planet. But a good place to study
composition would be a comparitve study of asteroids and our layers of
earth. Are there any certain elements concentrated in the depths of
our earth that have qualities that are found primarily in asteroids of
the asteroid belt? Who knows.

But relying on the idea of heat and friction induced formations for
planets, would it not be so far of a strech to re-heat something and
have it change into something else. So Tiamat gets broken up, causing
a destruction of unimaginable 'heat and friction', enough to melt the
compostion of part of itself, would that part reform, if it was large
enough, had enough internal gravity still intact etc.? How can this
be so ludicrous? It happened for some reason the first time, why not
have it happen again.

>>belt Tiamat. So those chunks may have affected our planet as well,
>>maybe not totally creating it, but providing our planet with H2O.
>
>Is it you or Sitchin who is now saying that the Earth isn't half a broken
>planet? If it's you, what are your qualifications, at least, what geology
>texts have you read dealing with these issues?

Geology can only tell me about composition with reliablitiy.
Formation is not quite possible for them.
The Mars microbe is possible proof of germination of a planet.
So all that is being said is that if enough pieces of Tiamat hit the
earth, did those pieces help water the already existing earth?
SO no, this is not Sitchin speak. But either way the ancients knew
something happened, which is the basic point of the whole topic.
What scientific information did they fail so far to pass on?
And I love the Pangea mentioned in Genesis,
'when all the water was gathered to one side and land appeared'(sic).
It is bits that make the whole.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

ForeRunner John <eli...@wi.net> wrote:

>The problem with Sitchin is not his asteroid or planet etc.
>His problem is that of taking all texts as totally interpreted contrary to known
>interpretations for 4000 years. He presumes ALL sources to be misinterpreted
>renditions in need of his revising to his narrative. This is flagrant
>disrespect for what millions of human scholars have written over the past
>4000 years as if they all have misinterpreted, deliberately lied, or
>boasted or fabricated.

I think what he says is that over those 4000 years the interpretations
change, the words get misplaced and moved and lost and added.
But I would add that in the case of the bible there are some lies.
All this is human nature, the circle of friends stories, say one thing
to one person, and the Tenth person has it all wrong.
The bible lies, which is obvious, that the winners of the war wrote
the histroy is more than clearly shown repeatedly throughout the
bible. And the winners will show no respect for those that they ran
over and deystroyed. In turn that specific truth is lost, leaving us
with only one supposed truth.

Who came along and decided Nephilim was Giants?
I don't think a linguistics could come up with an answer
but I could be wrong.

But the only thing that one can really lay heavy blame against Sitchin
with is that he sees a deeper more complex story within the ancient
writtings, where 'scholars' merely have shrugged it off as Myth, with
no proof to back it up.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

ForeRunner John

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to Gilgamesh

> ForeRunner John <eli...@wi.net> wrote:
> >The problem with Sitchin is not his asteroid or planet etc.
> >His problem is that of taking all texts as totally interpreted contrary to known
> >interpretations for 4000 years. He presumes ALL sources to be misinterpreted
> >renditions in need of his revising to his narrative. This is flagrant
> >disrespect for what millions of human scholars have written over the past
> >4000 years as if they all have misinterpreted, deliberately lied, or
> >boasted or fabricated.

Gilgamesh wrote:
> But the only thing that one can really lay heavy blame against Sitchin
> with is that he sees a deeper more complex story within the ancient
> writtings, where 'scholars' merely have shrugged it off as Myth, with
> no proof to back it up.
> Gilgamesh

How can you not accept my own story as finding the deep and complex
explanation of the myths. And yet it does not require that I do as Sitchin and
reinterpret both Bible and Sumerian texts. I can interpret those same
Sumerian texts and they agree with the Bible without me making Abraham a
UFO commander over the monkey-ape humans descending from Nephilim.
God knows Sitchin came out of a Star Trek or Star Wars movie.
Then consider me Sitchin's rival. Because like him I choose to go beyond
what scholars do in making dogmatic statements so as to get somewhere besides
the claimed evolutionary chart of ages. Yet I will determine the facts according to
recent history 2000 BC instead of claiming Gilgamesh is a record of 20,000-10,000 BC.
The Gilgamesh epic is totally in agreement with the biblical claims for the year
2030 BC as the death of Peleg (king Mesanipada the founder of Ur) and death of
king Unas the founder of Sakkara Egypt. King Gilgamesh the founder of Erech
(as placed by Nimrod = Narmer) fears death too, and so goes to find 940-year Noah.
He goes to Ararat as a christian would expect, and there is a vine yard as a christian
would expect, and when he is told to cross the deadly sea to an island
(most probably Daniel's reference to the ships of Kittim = Cyprus)
Noah who is alone and whose wife is dead, is asked why he is NOT victim to this
aging and death of everyone else who is 240 years of age. This was emphasized
by the resurrected Jesus when Peter was suspicious of John's approach to them
and cautioned Jesus of John's intent (as good or bad). Upon telling Peter it was not his
business to care whether he wanted John til his second coming, Peter taught all
the other disciples that Jesus had predicted John would never die. So too the
world never quoted Noah correctly even though Noah was still alive, just as
Peter misquoted Jesus about John. Peter or John? One is a liar as regards those
verses. John openly says Peter knew wrong, and John writes this in his book
after all disciples have died off.

Noah tells of the Flood changing the sky, and then wakes Gilgamesh up who is bored to
death. This was emphasized by Jesus who also waited for death at nite while
his apostles slept. He said...you will not always have me (to teach them).
And it is true we no longer have the 350 postFlood years of Noah because asses
were busy listening to Gilgamesh instead. Being a liar GIlgamesh came to Erech
empty handed and claiming he had gotten to the tree of life, which a christian would expect
to hear this too in real history. Scholars can claim all they want that the whole
Bible comes from these texts. Instead the Bible and these texts prove that the whole
world experienced the same drop in longevity and that nations like Erech twisted
the causes and the effects.

************
A voice crying out and going unheard,

(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24
God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
The 144,000 will rule before this first year ENDS.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif

Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:

>No, his translations are key. If they are wrong, his whole edifice collapses.

Ahhh, and yours are right? Or do you see your monument crumbling.
Such is the way of science, out with the old in with the new.

Remember he really translates little, few key words here and there.
It is the story he thinks is being told. The Epic for Creation he
does not translate, the story is right there for all to see.
You think of it as Myth, he thinks of it as scientific knowledge.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

dwe...@ramtops.demon.co.uk (Douglas Weller) wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:51:12 GMT, gilg...@cyberconnect.com (Gilgamesh)
>wrote:

>>Then please tell me what the cylinder seal represents. It clearly


>>shows a sun, with rays coming forth from it, and planets in relative
>>size and order.
>
>No, you simply buy Sitchin's interpretation of what it shows. There's no
>clearly to it. It's an INTERPRETATION>.

You being the modererator of sci.arhaeology, or anyone for that matter
please tell me what it may represent. I merely have to agree with
Sitchins interpretation at this time for various reasons.

1)It looks like a sun
2)There are round objects about the sun (suggesting Planets)
3)The specific figure sits at the top portion of the seal,
suggesting that it is in the Sky.

There are many a cylinder seal that are clearly identified by the
scholarly community as containg objects identified as celestial.
Crescent moons, rayed (circles) stars or suns, and winged discs,
depicted in various forms. SO it would stand to reason that this
object on cylinder VA/243 is indeed a representation of celestial
bodies. Sitchin has been the only one to make a conclusion as to what
the object is. Your opinion is most welcome.

>and a planet sitting where
>>the asteroid belt is now.
>
>Hm, a planet that never existed then.

Or one that we have yet to discover. Though the circle on VA/243 lies
in between what Sitchin calls Jupiter and Mars it also lies furthest
from the rayed-sun.
It is many of these little hints that do indeed make some of his
interpretations worthwhile. Doug, the whole aliens from another
planet is a recent concept in modern history, but it is a concept that
needs to be explored, regardless of the establised view.
Remember, Carl Sagan thought we were visited on a few occasions over
the centuries, and that some myth contained the encounters.
Maybe you need to read some Sitchin to see another view of things.

Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Charles R. Pfaff

unread,
Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

Jeff Hill wrote:
>
> >In genesis iteself you find that man is created not once, but twice.
> >Yes, it is all the same creation story, the bible ripped of a lot of
> >info from the many stories that already existed, giving full praise
> >to Yahweh.
>
> An excellent way to begin to approach an understanding of the Genesis
> myths, lies and nonsense partly invented by the Jews, partly imitated
> by the Jews from older civilisations, is via Voltaire's "Philosophical
> Dictionary" under the article entry "Genesis" - available at my site
> near the bottom of the contents list:
>
> http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hillj/index.html
Checked out your site Down Under. I'm impressed.
I left a reference or two, but thought I should add them here for others
who are interested.
Look for Myths and Deceptions of the Bible by LLoyd M. Graham. This
person is probably an Gnostic-Athiest, but he really has his research
all together.
Another is from the Australian Dead Sea Scroll scholar Barbara Therien
( I may have misspelled the name ) She Authored the book titled 'The
Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls'. Get it it is a must read.

Kim Burkard

unread,
Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
to

In article 32...@wi.net, ForeRunner John <eli...@wi.net> () writes:

>Gilgamesh wrote:
>> Even a geology text would be a bit reaching claiming they know exactly
>> how planets are formed. Possibly there was a planet in the asteroid
<snip>

>The problem with Sitchin is not his asteroid or planet etc.
>His problem is that of taking all texts as totally interpreted contrary to known
>interpretations for 4000 years. He presumes ALL sources to be misinterpreted


Moons, asteroids, planets, comets, and other celestial bodies in
themselves have nothing to do with mythology. Myths about them do,
but this thread and most all of the related threads aren't really aren't
discussions of myths and legends.

Please remove alt.mythology from your follow-ups on these threads.
Thanks in advance.


-kim
---
Kimberly Burkard | _ Everything I needed to know in life, I
Eastman Kodak Company| _____C .._. learned from my ferret:
Rochester, New York | ____/ \___/ Frolic and dance for joy often, have
bur...@kodak.com |<____/\_---\_\ no fear or worries, and enjoy life.


ForeRunner John

unread,
Jan 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/16/97
to cpf...@nwlink.com

Charles R. Pfaff wrote:
> Look for Myths and Deceptions of the Bible by LLoyd M. Graham. This
> person is probably an Gnostic-Athiest, but he really has his research
> all together.

Good you can buy my copy, its crap because its empty speech,
nothing researched at all. And although I recommend Barnes & Noble stores
I will never order by mail again until they take the book back.

And I find this has nothing to do with Marduk of which you dare
continue my threads with off-topic remarks and contributions without changing the
subject line to your post. I have ALWAYS had the decency to change the
subject line to be applicable to my comment. That way you dont have to open
and read it if it isnt of interest. But the rest of you posters destructive to our world,
bitch about being off-topic (according to your opinion) in a newsgroup, and
yet hypocritically are always commenting off-topic of the subject lines.
What do you think the subject lines are for !
They are not merely for YOU to sort what you read,
they are for you to sort what you POST.

Gilgamesh

unread,
Jan 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/16/97
to

pmhi...@agate.net (Peter M. Hilton) wrote:

>In article <32D8F3...@wi.net>, eli...@wi.net says...
>>
>>TO what Gilgamesh wrote:
>>
>>* MARDUK MEASURES FROM CREATION BY NOAHS FLOOD *

These are the writtings of John The Foreskin.


Gilgamesh
Ovni Catalyst

Michelle Malkin

unread,
Jan 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/17/97
to

ForeRunner John <eli...@wi.net> wrote:


Oh, Richard, I am shattered, simply shattered. Here I was about to come over to
your way of 'thinking' and you used the dreaded 'c' word, not once, but TWICE!
How could you?! And, to make matters ever worse, you then used the 'b' word. I
couldn't believe mine eyes. And, all this silliness about using any name but
your own. Why, I begin to doubt your sincerity. I'm afraid I'll have to seek a
teacher elsewhere.

Bleating vainly in the wilderness,

Michaela


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