Honor Harrington Uniforms (Final Update)
Robbie Matthews
least as far as we can tell.
I have been collecting this information for some time now, and this is
more or less the final version (at least until DW writes another book!)
The uniforms on the various book covers can be largely ignored as
sources of information, as they invariably contradict the information in
the book.
If anyone who maintains an Honor Harrington web-site wants to archive
this somewhere useful, it would be appreciated.
ROYAL MANTICORAN NAVY:
The normal uniform is "Black and Gold" (primarily black, though. There
is little reference to which bits are gold)(Assumably just highlights).
The Captain wears a white beret, all other crew wear a black beret.
The beret has a badge showing the Manticoran coat of arms on it.
There is a tunic (primarily black) (NO buttons) with epaulets, and a
turtleneck white blouse worn underneath. Trousers are black, with a gold
stripe along the outer seams (This may be the dress uniform only)
Previous hyper-capable commands are indicated by a series of gold stars
embroidered on the breast of the tunic (left?)
The is a Shoulder Flash on the right shoulder of the tunic, showing a
rampant manticore in black on a red background.
On the left shoulder is a horseshoe shaped patch with the ships name on
it.
Assumably there are also unit/speciality patches as well, but they are
not mentioned specifically in the books.
The full Mess Dress uniform includes a ceremonial sword, and there is
mention of considerable amounts of braid (for senior ranks)
Known Rank insignia:
Ensign - 1 gold band on sleeve,
Lt-Jg - 1 1/2 gold bands on sleeve
Lt - 2 gold bands on sleeve,
Lt-Cmdr - 2 1/2 Gold bands on sleeve,
Commander# - Three Gold Bands on Sleeve,
Captain JG# - Four Gold Bands on sleeve, 4 "pips" on collar
Captain of the List# - Four Gold Bands on sleeve, single "planet" on
collar
Commodore# - 1 Broad band, 3 normal bands, 2 x "planets" on collar
Rear Admiral - 2 Broad bands 2 normal 1 x 9-pointed star
Vice Admiral - 3 Broad bands 1 normal 2 x 9-pointed stars
Admiral# - Four broad gold Bands on sleeve, 3 x 9-pointed stars on
collar
(The ‘#’ are confirmed by actual book references, the others are
inferred)
Staff offices wear a gold "aguilette" (a loop of braid) dangling from
the left(?) shoulder.
Notes:
A half band is a very thin band
Pips are diamond shape used by Commonwealth Forces (British, Canadian,
Australian
etc).
Enlisted Ranks:
Tech/crewmember 3rd - 1 stripe
Tech/crewmember 2nd - 2 stripes
Tech/crewmember 1st - 3 stripes
Petty Officer (P.O) 3rd class - 1 chevron
P.O. 2nd class - 2 chevrons
P.O. 1st class - 3 chevrons
Chief P.O. - 3 chevrons & 1 rocker
Senior Chief P.O. - 3 chevrons & 2 rockers
Master Chief P.O. - 3 chevrons & 3 rockers
Snr Master C.P.O.# - 3 chevrons & 3 rockers, with crown
(or is it a wreath) on top rocker.
(For the "Gunny" put an anchor in the center of the chevrons)
1) "Gunny" is the highest ranking Marine NCO on a ship.
2) The highest ranking Navy NCO on a ship is called "Bosun".
3) The anchor between the chevrons and rocker indicates that the
wearer is a "boatswain's mate".
(A Chevron is a sort of ‘V’, a "rocker" is a curved line over the
chevron (like (>>> (on it’s side))) and the stripes in this case refer
to short diagonal lines)
It’s a reasonable guess that specialty badges would also go in the same
general vicinity, but that’s not actually supported by any references.
This is a useful site for background info:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ranks/officers/o-rank.html
This is the sum total of my knowledge from scouring through the books.
The rank insignia seem to be more or less in line with the current US
Navy rank insignia, although there does not appear the be an equivalent
of "Captain (Junior Grade)" in either the US or British navies.
That being the case, the following collar insignia could apply:
Ensign = 1 'closed' pip
Lt. JG = 1 'closed' pip and 1 open 'pip'
Lt. SG = 2 'closed' pips
Lt. Cmdr. = 2 'closed' pips and 1 open 'pip'
Cmdr. = 3 'closed' pips
Capt. JG = 4 'closed' pips
Capt. SG = Full planet
Commodore = 2 planets
Rear Admiral = 1 star (nine pointed)
Vice Admiral = 2 stars (nine pointed)
Admiral = 3 stars (nine pointed)
Fleet Admiral = 4 stars (nine pointed)
(A 'closed' pip is a solid shape, and an 'open' pip is a hollow shape)
As for noncoms, nothing specific is mentioned in the books but:
"US Army uses long diagonal stripes on left fore-arm for enlistments,
short
horizontal bars for combat tours (hershey bars)."
"Officers wear enlistment stripes only if earned for service prior to
receiving
a commission."
Other Services:
Manticoran Marines wear green and black
Grayson Navy wears blue.
"...The short waisted tunic was a lighter blue than the trousers, which
seemed
an equally unnatural reversal of the way things ought to be, and the
gold
leaves on her visor...."
"...high peaked, visored cap..." (from Flag in Exile)
(and mentions archaic buttons)
Grayson Marines wear green and brown
Masadan Navy wears Scarlet and Gold
IAN (Anderman Navy) wears white.
I THINK that the PN has a uniform similar to the RMN, but there is no
actual mention I can find for sure.
Robbie Matthews
SwordOath1
Since DW has stated that the Mattingly covers accurately represent Manticoran
uniform, I decided I would impose on him a bit. He's been kind enough to
correspond with me electronically since I got parked in the body shop (and
guess what? I get to go home in just seven more weeks! [For a while, anyway]),
so I asked him. He e-mailed me the following (partly, I think, because he said
someone else had also e-mailed him some questions about it which he regretted
that he had been too busy to answer), which is from his tech bible for the
series, with the understanding that I would share it with the rest of the group
rather than "give those shameless vigilantes at ROMANCE reason to charge you
with snerking." At any rate, here it is. BTW, DW cautions that it is NOT
complete in all details; that these are the ones he wrote down to remind
himself about points he was afraid he might forget or confuse even more than it
is a general description. I suspect he may have fleshed it out a bit more since
he started letting other writers play in the Honorverse, however, since this is
also from the Sacred Tome that he shares with said other writers to give them
the background they need.
Enjoy.
(C) Officer Corps & Rank Structure:
Throughout its history, the RMN has maintained that the proper place
for a naval officer to learn his trade is in space. While the Academy is
grueling and demanding, a line officer's career truly begins only after
graduation, when he may expect to spend at least the next four or five
Manticoran years (7-9 Terran years) almost continuously in space in one
shipboard assignment after another. By tradition, initiative and independence
are encouraged, although, in fact, some senior officers seem to have forgotten
that. The hard core of the RMN's officer corps, however, consists of seasoned,
highly-experienced ship-handlers who are intimately familiar with their
weapons, their personnel, and their mission.
Unfortunately, the RMN is the product of an aristocratic society whose
traditional power relationships have changed but slowly over the past five
centuries. This system has many good points, including stability, a sense of
order, and a feeling of mutual obligations between the classes; it also,
however, is prey to the forces of patronage and favoritism, and the Navy has
not escaped unscathed. Scions of the aristocracy or those with friends in high
places can expect first consideration for choice assignments and are routinely
promoted over the heads of those without patrons. The potential for damage this
represents would be difficult to over estimate, but the worst abuses of the
system are smoothed away by the practice of "half-pay." An officer who has
"made list" (that is, has been added to the list of permanent captains) may
retain his commission and his seniority while on inactive duty at half-pay.
Actually, the pay is considerably less than half, for he loses his various duty
allowances and dependent support allowances. Officially, this system was
instituted to maintain a large reserve of experienced officers in case of
emergency; actually, it is used as a parking orbit for incompetents with
powerful friends. Patronage will get an officer a chance to prove his ability
and, if he shows himself capable, will get him choice assignments. If, however,
he proves himself incompetent he will be promoted to "list" and then quietly
shuffled off into the ranks of the half-pay officers and, in all probability,
never employed again. Unfortunately, this is also the way an occasionally
capricious Board of Admiralty deals with competent officers who have irritated
the Powers That Be, and more than one highly qualified captain or admiral has
languished on half-pay while praying for a change in political fortune to get
him back onto a command deck.
Traditionally, 90% of all officers are Academy graduates, but that
percentage has dipped during the recent decades of expansion, with a higher
percentage of "mustangs" (an ancient term whose origin is lost in obscurity) or
non-commissioned personnel promoted to commissioned rank.
The commissioned ranks are supported by warrant officers and non-commissioned
officers who, like the true heart of the officer corps itself, are lifers. The
enlisted/noncomissioned rates, from most junior to most senior are:
Rank Sleeve Insignia
Ground Forces Equiv
3rd class 1 stripe*
Recruit
2nd class 2 stripes
Private
1st class 3 stripes
P 1/c
PO/3rd 1 chevron
Corporal
PO/2nd 2 chevrons
Platoon Sergeant
PO 1st 3 chevrons
Staff Sergeant
Chief Petty Officer 3 chevrons/1 rocker Master
Sergeant
Senior Chief Petty Officer 3 chevrons/2 rockers
Sgt. Major
Master Chief Petty Officer 3 chevrons/3 rockers Batt.
Sgt. Major
Senior Master Chief Petty Officer 3 chevonrs/3 rockers/crown* Rgt.
Sgt. Major**
*The SMCPO is distinguished from the MCPO by the large crown insignia
superimposed upon the uppermost of the three rockers. All branch insignia are
centered above the stripe(s) and/or chevron(s) and below the rockers for CPOs
and above.
**Regimental Sergeant Major is the highest noncom rank of the RMMC. The RSM
attached to the staff of a brigade or division CO becomes the
brigade/divisional SM. The senior SM of the Corps is referred to Sergeant Major
of the Corps (and addressed by ALL RMMC personnel, regardless of rank, as
"Gunny." He is attached to the Commandant of the Corps, who always represents
the RMMC at the JCS level.
The commissioned ranks, from most junior to most senior, are:
Rank Collar* Cuff Rings**
Ground Forces
Ensign 1 white pip 1 white 2nd
Lieutenant
Lieutenant (jg) 1 gold pip 1 gold 1st
Lieutenant
Lieutenant (sg) 2 gold pips 2 gold Captain
Lt. Commander 3 gold pips 3 gold; 1 half & 2 full Major
Commander 4 gold pips 3 gold Lt. Colonel
Captain (jg) 4 gold pips 4 gold No Equivalent
Captain (List) 1 gold planet 4 gold Colonel
Commodore 2 gold panets 4 gold; 3 full & 1 broad Brigadier
Rear Admiral 1 gold star 2 broad gold Major General
Vice Admiral 2 gold stars 3 broad gold Lt. General
Admiral 3 gold stars 4 broad gold
General
Fleet Admiral 4 gold stars 4 broad gold Field Marshal
Admiral of the Fleet4 stars around 5 broad gold Marshal
of the
1 planet
Army
*All collar insignia are repeated on both sides of collar.
**Cuff rings NA to ground forces
In addition to the ranks listed above, there is an additional division,
based on seniority, within each of the flag ranks below Admiral of the Fleet.
These are based on the two historical fleet districts, with the junior half of
the list assigned to the Gryphon District and the senior half to the Manticore
District. Originally, an admiral was actually assigned to the district in
question; today it is simply an indication of relative seniority, with a Rear
Admiral of Manticore being senior to a Rear Admiral of Gryphon. The Naval
Ensign displayed in each district is differenced by a colored border—green for
the Manticore District and red for the Gryphon District—so a Rear Admiral of
Manticore is usually referred to as a Rear Admiral of the Green, and his flag
displays his rank stars on a green field. A Rear Admiral of Gryphon, on the
other hand, is referred to as a Rear Admiral of the Red and his flag displays
his rank stars on a red field. Commodores display their single planet on a
broad pendant with the black field of the RMN Ensign.
(D) Uniform:
The RMN uniform is black and gold. Officer's undress uniform consists of a
black, double-breasted tunic (which seals up the right side and has relatively
long skirts which fall to the upper thigh), a white blouse, and black trousers.
The tunic collar is "Prussian" in style—high and round but loose enough for
comfort—and the blouse collar is a turtleneck. Trousers are fairly loose and
straight cut to just below the knee, at which point they flare out and are
bloused into low-topped space boots. The tunic's tailoring is slightly
wasp-waisted (with unfortunate consequences for the portly), and bears thin
gold piping up either side of the cross-over front panel. Trousers are
untrimmed.
Cuff stripes are bands (usually referred to as "rings") of gold braid. A
"normal ring" is two cm wide; half stripes are one cm wide, and broad stripes
are 3.8 cm wide. Naval reserve officers's rings use gold lace rather than solid
bands to differentiate reservists from regulars. In addition to the cuffs, a
matching number of thin gold stripes are carried on the tunic's shoulder board
"epaulets." Epaulet stripes run front-to-back, not side-to-side, and work in
from the outer end of the epaulet. The background color of the epaulet is red,
not black.
The left shoulder of the tunic normally bears the name and hull number of the
wearer's current ship (i.e., HMS Fearless, CL-56) in an "upside-down"
horseshoe arrangement immediately below the shoulder seam. The right shoulder
bears the gold-and-scarlet Manticore badge of the RMN. Collar insignia are worn
on the tunic's collar, not the blouse's, but the same insignia are worn on an
embroidered patch on the left chest of the blouse, immediately above the
pocket. Medal ribbons and qualification badges are worn on the left breast of
the tunic. In addition, starship commanders wear one star, embroidered in gold
thread, for each hyper-capable command they have held, above their other
ribbons. The beret breaks to the right and bears the Kingdom's coat of arms—a
golden crown supported by a rampant manticore, sphinx, and gryphon (also gold),
all on a scarlet field—as a flash on the left side of the band. Starship
commander's berets are white; all others are black.
Dress uniform is similar to undress but is more sharply tailored, made of more
expensive (and less utilitarian) materials, uses gold bullion for its insignia
and bullion thread for cuff bands, and has gold piping up the outer trouser
seams. In addition, the tunic bears false buttons up either side of the
double-breasted flap, and the epaulets bear the appropriate collar insignia
"inboard" of the gold stripes.
Mess dress follows dress in overall concept, but for officers below the rank
of commodore the tunic is replaced by a short-waisted coatee which ends at belt
level. Senior grade captains and flag officers wear a longer tunic—indeed,
almost a frock coat—and a golden sash. In addition, jacket and trouser seams
are picked out in gold piping and a dress sword is a non-optional portion of
the uniform for all officer ranks. Mess dress's tunic collar is much tighter
than for dress uniform and detested accordingly.
Enlisted undress uniform is considerably simpler than officer's uniform,
consisting of a tailored, one-piece coverall in standard Navy black and gold.
Name and rank insignia are worn on the left breast. The same basic uniform is
worn by noncoms, but the trouser seams of noncoms' uniforms are picked out in
piping color-coded by branch: red for tactical, green for medical, yellow for
communications, white for engineering and electronics, brown for logistics,
etc. Additional specialist insignia (such as a missile for gunnery noncoms) is
worn on the upper left sleeve as a shoulder patch under the unit name for all
ratings and noncoms.
Dress uniform for both enlisted and noncomissioned ranks is a simplified
version of officer's dress uniform, with the addition of trouser piping
color-coded as for undress uniform. There is no "mess dress" uniform for
enlisted or noncomissioned ranks.
Merry Christmas, all.
Chris Maurer
"It is a fundamental law of defense that you always have to use the most
powerful weapon that you can produce."--Maj. Gen. James Burns
Michael Johnson
says...
>
>
>
>This is the sum total of my knowledge from scouring through the books.
>The rank insignia seem to be more or less in line with the current US
>Navy rank insignia, although there does not appear the be an equivalent
>of "Captain (Junior Grade)" in either the US or British navies.
>
>That being the case, the following collar insignia could apply:
>
>Ensign = 1 'closed' pip
>Lt. JG = 1 'closed' pip and 1 open 'pip'
>Lt. SG = 2 'closed' pips
>Lt. Cmdr. = 2 'closed' pips and 1 open 'pip'
>Cmdr. = 3 'closed' pips
>Capt. JG = 4 'closed' pips
>Capt. SG = Full planet
>Commodore = 2 planets
>Rear Admiral = 1 star (nine pointed)
>Vice Admiral = 2 stars (nine pointed)
>Admiral = 3 stars (nine pointed)
>Fleet Admiral = 4 stars (nine pointed
Good research...
Just as an aside, As far as my memory goes, the terms "Junior Captain" and
"Senior Captain" did exist in the Royal Navy up until the late 19th century.
A Junior Post Captain was a captain with less than 3 years seniority and wore
a gold epaulette on the right shoulder.
A Senior Post Captain had 3 years seniority and wore two gold epaulettes.
The "post" refers to the officers "posting to the captains list" which
guaranteed him eventual promotion to admiral as he gained seniority and climbed
to the top of the captains list. (If he lived long enough of course!)
Hope this helps.....
Mike J
bo.h.jo...@karlstad.mail.telia.com
> This is a description as of the uniform of the Royal Manticoran navy, at
> least as far as we can tell.
>
> ---SUPER-SNIP---
>
Robbie Matthews has collected information about military uniforms in
David Weber's books about Honor Harrington.
I have made this available on a web page at this URL:
http://w1.545.telia.com/~u54504162/honor/hh_unifm.htm
// Bo Johansson
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Arthur Brims
> Robbie Matthews <Robbie....@actew.com.au> seems to have posted:
at
> > least as far as we can tell.
> >
> >
> Robbie Matthews has collected information about military uniforms in
> David Weber's books about Honor Harrington.
>
> I have made this available on a web page at this URL:
> http://w1.545.telia.com/~u54504162/honor/hh_unifm.htm