superconductors in the ring: fantasy sci-fic
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
science behind it.
The ring:
The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties as
outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the ring is
a room-temperature superconductor.
Why would this be so? Well, let's recap some facts:
1. as you cool a material down, its resistance to electricity changes
(becoming lower.) But below a certain temperature, called the "critical
temperature", the resistance drops to zero suddenly for some materials.
These are called superconductors.
2. A superconductor will conduct an electrical current forever. There
is no resistance to current flow in it.
3. A superconductor when placed in a magnetic field will float. The
magnetic field inside a superconductor is always 0.
Let's extrapolate some from these properties.
Let's assume the following: Sauron had invented a room temperature
superconductor, and fashioned a ring of this substance. He then poured
a large current into the ring (through what mechanism, I'm not sure,
however for the remainder of this article you may assume safely that a
large current exists in the ring.) This current circles around and
around the ring, and confines itself to the surface of the ring (as all
currents in conductors do.) This current explains the magical
properties of the ring.
The metallic structure of the ring consists of a perfect crystal lattice
of ions, surrounded by an electron gas. The gas circulates around the
crystal at the speed of light (since there is no resistance) and does
not diminish, due to the superconducting effect. The current due to the
electrons circulating is very large, and contains considerable energy.
Ordinarily such a current would generate a large magnetic field, but if
we imagine the current split into 2 opposite-direction currents, each
counters the field of the other. Theouter surface contains a current
(say clockwise) and the inner surface contains the opposite one. The
inner current is greater than the outer one by the inverse ratio of the
radii of the 2 surfaces, or about 10% greater.
1. The ring is impervious to attack:
The inductance of the ring current makes it impossible to change the
shape of the ring, for small forces.
If you try to pierce the ring with a sharp knife, the crystal lattice of
the ring deforms slightly. This causes the current to change its
direction in the vicinity of the ring. Since this current is very
large, it's changing value generates a huge magnetic field which tries
to restore the current to its original position. The lattice violently
deforms back into shape, and the ring maintains its original structure.
Note that since ALL of the ring current flows on the surface of the
ring, therefore there is ENORMOUS resilience to any force coming from
the outside of the ring. This large surface current is what gives the
ring its strength.
2. the ring cools quickly
The ring might be expected to lose its superconductive property when
placed in a fire, since all superconductors cease to conduct above a
certain temperature. However this is not the case. This effect is also
due to the large ring current.
A fire causes the atoms of any typical metal in the ring to start to
vibrate more rapidly, hence increasing the temperature. The surface
current makes the ring more durable though. A transverse force from hot
air molecules from outside striking the surface of the ring, will cause
a slight vibration in the ring crystal lattice. Say it pushes the
crystal inwards, this however will draw more current from the "ring
current" and the extra negative charge will draw the lattice back into
shape. Therefore the temperature effects will NOT propagate inwards,
rather stay on the surface of the ring, and merely modulate the ring
current making its value fluctuate as the outside air randomly strikes
the surface. The net result will be negligible, as long as the ring
current maintains its value. Once the ring current drops to 0, then the
ring will cease superconducting immediately and be consumed in the fire.
The temperature outside, if high enough will immediately penetrate the
surface and pertrub the lattice before the ring current can compensate,
and the superconducting effect will stop. Then the ring will
catastrophically explode as the enourmous ring current faces a finite
resistance, and has to dissipate all the energy Sauron put into it
within a fraction of a second.
Note that even small temperatures will slowly sap the energy from the
ring current, but the effect will not be sudden. This may be the way
the ring is destroyed in Mount doom, it will sit there for eons until
the ring current dies away enough for the superconducting state to cease
(as mentioned above.)
3. The ring makes invisible
Recall Greens theorem that the total flux passing through any surface is
equal to the line integral of a close loop threading the surface. Or
integral { over closed surface S} E.da = integral { over closed contour
C} curl E.dl
Since the ring is a closed loop, it can serve to determine the line
integral of an electromagnetic field over a closed contour. To a human
being, wearing the ring renders him invisible. This is equivalent to
saying that "no electromagnetic energy leaves a surface surrounding
him." All the light that hits him in the back, also appears to be
coming unchanged from his front. This is equivalent to saying that the
flux leaving his body is 0. Now how can the ring acomplish this? Well,
as you see with the ring current being so large, when you disturb it, it
tries to flow in the same way as it did before. So the flux when it
enters the gaussian surface surrounding the wearer, changes the value of
the line integral of the curl of the eletric field on a contour
threading it. This manifests in a disturbance felt by thering current,
which is tries to resist in the way mentioned above. So it changes the
flux of the of the surface to try to make it equal to 0 again. It does
this by making the flux going out of the surface, equal to the flux
coming in. Thus the ring wearer becomes invisible.
Thus as you can see, the total effects of the ring can be traced back to
the large quantity of energy which Sauron invested into the ring, and to
the superconducting quality of it. The ring current keeps the
superconductivity alive even when placed in fire, and the
superconductivity keeps the current flowing even when outside forces try
to disrupt it.
Comments, suggestions please. (e.g. how to make this more fun to read.?)
Hasan
Jette Goldie
"Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
news:tDe4b.106820$_V.5...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
> Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
> science behind it.
>
> The ring:
>
> The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties as
> outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the ring is
> a room-temperature superconductor.
>
> Comments, suggestions please. (e.g. how to make this more fun to read.?)
Physics!! Tis 30 years since I took my Physics Higher - my head hurts!
:-)
--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
TitaniumWulf
> Comments, suggestions please. (e.g. how to make this more fun to read.?)
Loved it. Good stuff.
Also because of ohms law - what voltage is in the ring? Therefore we can
work out the power (W) by multiplying V and I :)
Wyatt
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
TitaniumWulf wrote:
The resistance in a superconductor is for all intensive purposes, zero.
So the voltage is also 0. An infinite current could flow, and in
practise the current would be limited to whatever level of current you
"charged" the ring up with when you made it.
In a real superconductor ring, once started, a current can flow
undiminished for several years.
Hasan
TitaniumWulf
> The resistance in a superconductor is for all intensive purposes, zero.
> So the voltage is also 0. An infinite current could flow, and in
> practise the current would be limited to whatever level of current you
> "charged" the ring up with when you made it.
Good point. Its a few years since I studied it so I had forgotten
about that. :)
Wyatt
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Jette Goldie wrote:
> "Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
> news:tDe4b.106820$_V.5...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
>>Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
>>science behind it.
>>
>>The ring:
>>
>>The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties as
>>outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the ring is
>>a room-temperature superconductor.
>>
>
> (snip)
>
>>Comments, suggestions please. (e.g. how to make this more fun to read.?)
>
>
>
> Physics!! Tis 30 years since I took my Physics Higher - my head hurts!
>
> :-)
>
>
I tried to make it understandeable. I'll rework it some.
Hasan
Jette Goldie
"Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
You missed the smiley in my post, Hasan. I was actually quite
good at Physics in my day. <g>
Your post was very clear - and within the premise that you have
to use physics in a fantasy novel, it works........ it just seems
rather heretical to use superconductors in LotR - like folks
who want to know "where do the Immortals come from?"
in Highlander. (we all know where *that* gets you - you end
up with HL2 "the sickening")
Mornië Utúlië
thanks!
"Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
news:tDe4b.106820$_V.5...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
The American
"Jette Goldie" <j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
news:17r4b.1379$5_7.12...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
> it just seems
> rather heretical to use superconductors in LotR - like folks
> who want to know "where do the Immortals come from?"
> in Highlander. (we all know where *that* gets you - you end
> up with HL2 "the sickening")
>
>
1st Movie = Awesome!
2nd Movie = An abomination! (although I did think the laser shield was
clever)
3rd Movie = Didn't suck. (it didn't really make any sense either)
TV series = ????...WTF?
T.A.
Morgil
"The American" <a_real_...@hotspammail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:uGw4b.17461$Nc.69...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>
> "Jette Goldie" <j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
> news:17r4b.1379$5_7.12...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >
> > it just seems
> > rather heretical to use superconductors in LotR - like folks
> > who want to know "where do the Immortals come from?"
> > in Highlander. (we all know where *that* gets you - you end
> > up with HL2 "the sickening")
> >
> >
>
>
> 1st Movie = Awesome!
> 2nd Movie = An abomination! (although I did think the laser shield was
> clever)
Has anyone seen the Renegade version? Is it any better?
Morgil
Sentinel
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:biu5qj$dcdhu$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
I saw it. Actually, I own it on DVD. It's a tad better than the original
(which probably isn't saying much, heh) but I do like the changes. All in
all it is a better movie, IMO.
None
[rings fiction]
Electrons have mass, about 1/2000 that of a Hydrogen atom. Photons do
not have mass.
If particles have *any* mass, the cannot maintain lightspeed. In fact,
merely approaching lightspeed, say to one third lightspeed, should start
to have relativistic effects such as increased mass.
E = mass X the velocity of light squared.
Ergo.
Still, it was a fun read...
None.
PS Mind you, if the Ring dealt with the problem of increased by
phase-shifting itself partly out of this space-time continuum and into
another, perhaps a partial or virtual universe, that might shed some
light on the way it makes people and things invisible.
None
Depends on whether you have the hots for Renegade or not.
Personaly I think is a version of Buffy the vampire slayer - gone wrong.
None.
TT Arvind
> Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
> science behind it.
Interesting essay. Incidentally, have you read Lalaith's Middle Earth
Science pages? I suspect you may find them interesting - they're at:
http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~lalaith/M-earth.html It may also
give you ideas on making your essay more "accessible", if you really
think it needs that.
--
Meneldil
Grau, treuer Freund, ist alle Theorie,
und grün des Lebens goldener Baum
- Goethe
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
None wrote:
> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>
> [rings fiction]
>
> Electrons have mass, about 1/2000 that of a Hydrogen atom. Photons do
> not have mass.
>
> If particles have *any* mass, the cannot maintain lightspeed. In fact,
> merely approaching lightspeed, say to one third lightspeed, should start
> to have relativistic effects such as increased mass.
>
> E = mass X the velocity of light squared.
>
> Ergo.
>
> Still, it was a fun read...
>
>
http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/tech/energy/t00110d.html
Then I guess energy will travel at the speed of light in the
superconductor, but the electrons themselves will be much slower. Just
like in an ordinary metal.
>
> None.
>
> PS Mind you, if the Ring dealt with the problem of increased by
> phase-shifting itself partly out of this space-time continuum and into
> another, perhaps a partial or virtual universe, that might shed some
> light on the way it makes people and things invisible.
You mean shift itself out of this dimension and into another? That
would be too mundane. Recall flatland, published > 100 years ago.
ANYONE could disappear and walk through walls if they had access to the
fourth dimension, ring or no ring.
If the ring was found to store more energy than was physically possible
in 3-space, then perhaps it could be explained by assuming it had a 4-d
component to it. Its power over men could be explained by 4-D as well.
The ring is evil, after all.
Hasan
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
TT Arvind wrote:
> žus cwęš Hasdrubal Hamilcar:
>
>
>>Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
>>science behind it.
>
>
> Interesting essay. Incidentally, have you read Lalaith's Middle Earth
> Science pages? I suspect you may find them interesting - they're at:
> http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~lalaith/M-earth.html It may also
> give you ideas on making your essay more "accessible", if you really
> think it needs that.
>
I have never seen it before, but it sure looks interesting.
Hasan
Jette Goldie
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:biu5qj$dcdhu$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
My best friend insists that the 2nd movie is the best of the 4 -
but then she's seriously got the hots for Michael Ironside ;-)
(she seems to go for men who are .....*thinning* on top)
Jette Goldie
"The American" <a_real_...@hotspammail.com> wrote in message
news:uGw4b.17461$Nc.69...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
You seem to have missed the 4th movie. Combine #1 with
the tv series and it was a natural (if a little weak in places)
sequel to the first movie.
the softrat
<j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
>
>My best friend insists that the 2nd movie is the best of the 4 -
>but then she's seriously got the hots for Michael Ironside ;-)
>
>(she seems to go for men who are .....*thinning* on top)
(like Sean C.?)
the softrat ==> Careful!
I have a hug and I know how to use it!
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Censorship? We don't have any censorship here. If we did, I
couldn't say ---- or ------ ------!
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
>
> Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of the
> science behind it.
>
> The ring:
>
> The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties as
> outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the ring is
> a room-temperature superconductor.
>
>
Ring Theory
part 2
1. The lettering on the ring, and their rubbing off
The ring has a property Gandalf described that the letters wore off with
time, but would be restored by fire. The ring consists of two parts:
a. the metal crystalline structure
b. the infinite current flowing in it.
Each part alone would not suffice to make a ring of power. By way of
analogy, the penis is made up of soft tissue, and pumped in blood. By
themselves neither of these is very rigid or strong, but when the soft
tissue of the penis is pumped full of blood, then the organ extends and
becomes rigid, strong and large. The loss of the blood would make the
penis deflate, while the loss of structural integrity of the soft tissue
would be too horrible to contemplate. In a similar way the metal of the
ring is hardened by the infinite current flowing through it, and the
current is contained by the metal.
Now the writing on the ring, is the result of depressions carved into
the ring, extending to deep within the crystal body. The infinite ring
current flows beneath these depressions, following the surface of the
metal. However, over time, the normal entropy of any system works its
magic and the infinite current takes a shortcut away from the bottom of
the depressions and takes the straight path over top of them. (See
figure). When this happens, the markings become obscured. This
situation is remedied by putting the ring moderate fire, chiselling its
outer face so as to disturb the ring current, forcing it back into the
superconducting material and following the twisted path determined for
it by it's maker.
--------------- -----------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x| |x
x+-------+x
xxxxxxxxxxx
the normal flow of ring current follows the x's.
short cut flow of current, obscuring the markings beneath
--------------- -----------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|xxxxxxx|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| |
+-------+
---------
2. Magnetic properties of the one ring
The one ring has 2 large near-infinite currents flowing in circles
around it. One on the outer face with the writing, another flowing in
the reverse direction along the inner face. (The directions can be
determined by examining a freshly fired ring, and noting on which side
of the lettering the detail is obscured first.) The two currents can be
compared to 2 serpents coiled around in a circle, with their heads
movign in opposite directions.
The reason for these two currents as explained previously, is to keep
the ring magnetically neutral. If there was only one current, then the
rings net magentic field would attract entire mountains of metal to it,
to be permanently stuck to it. The second current generates a magnetic
field of the reverse direction as the first, and the two cancel out.
<fantasymath>
The 2 fields are proportional to the current times the radius or H=I*r.
Since r1 (inner radius) is less than r2 (outer radius), therefore
I1/I2=r2/r1. Assume the ring has an inner radius (r1) of 1cm, outer of
1.2 cm. Therefore I1/I2=1.2/1. The current I1 is 20% greater than the
inner current.
</fantasymath>
If the ring is placed in an external magnetic field, the currents in the
ring will adjust to make the total magnetic field inside the ring
superconductor material equal to 0. H=0 at all times within the one
ring. (This property is essential in producing invisibility, but that
will not be discussed here.) One of the currents will increase and the
other will decrease. Which current increases depends on the external
field direction.
On a destructive note, a high frequency magnetic field applied to the
ring will possibly cause the 2 currents to self destruct. For if the
time it takes to shift the current from one loop to the other (a
distance of roughly 3 mm) is on the order of the period of the applied
external magentic field, then resonance may occur and the currents will
not be able to adjust fast enough, causing rapid energy loss within the
superconductor. This will heat the material up from the inside (rather
like a microwave oven) and cause the superconductor to revert to being a
common conductor, and discharge all its energy in a single flash. The
frequency of field required for this phenomenon has yet to be
experimentally determined, but it is on the order of c / 3mm or 3E8/3E-3
or 1E11Hz, or 100 Gigahertz. This is another powerful way to destroy
the one ring, which unfortunately the elves did not consider.
Heterodyning microwaves by placing a microwave oven (6Ghz) within
another microwave oven, and so forth about 15 times, could have produced
a field of this high frequency.
The actual close-up magnetic field generated by the ring, is that of a
solenoid. Along the "top" of the ring (the thin part on top when the
ring is placed flat on a table top) surface currents will flow,
cancelling out the field produced by the ring itself, and transferring
current between the two current loops.
The sum total of the 2-d surface current distribution can be used to
reconstruct a 3-D external magnetic field pattern, and this qualified
the one ring as a hologram. The ring may well be useful in holography
applications too where active Electromagnetic-field cancellation (aka
invisibility) is required. More on this later.
4. touching the ring
When considering all these infinite currents, the normal question is :
why don't I get fried and turned into a flaming hobbit when I touch the
ring? The answer is to be found in the nature of currents themselves.
Electrical current always takes the path of least resistance to its
flow. The human body has a huge resistance, while a superconductor has
0 resistance. ANY finite resistance is infinitely greater than 0.
Applying silver wire to the one ring should not drain any current from
it whatsoever.
If however you applied another superconductor to the one ring, then this
would immediately shunt some current onto the new conductor. So if you
have constructed another magic ring of the same type as Saurons, you
could charge it up using the original ring. It would have to be one
hell of a superconductor though. A typical superconductor would lose
its superconductive property once the electrical current went above a
certain value, and then the ring would explode, release ALL the energy
it drained from the one ring into the atmosphere all at once. This is
guaranteed to happen when using cheap superconductors near the one ring.
Use superconductors with caution around it.
See the chapter on "destroying the one ring" for more on this effect.
This may be useful in disposing of enemy weapons of this sort.
next chapter: new and less-considered ways to destroy the ring of power.
Hasan
ERRATA
nb: The reference to invisibility in the previous article should mention
stokes theorem, not Greens theorem.
Insane Ranter
without it losing energy somewhere????
coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<n...@spam.net> wrote:
> Interesting.... except.... how do you get the current to flow forever
> without it losing energy somewhere????
as long as it does no work
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Insane Ranter wrote:
> Interesting.... except.... how do you get the current to flow forever
> without it losing energy somewhere????
>
>
Because of the Superconductor. In real life, electrical current has
been measured flowing for years in a superconductor, and could flow for
a billion years while losing no more than half its value.
The fantasy side of the theory I wrote above is above all, that you
can't have large electrical currents inside a superconductor (yet) and
there are no room-temperature superconductors (yet.)
cheers,
Hasan
The American
"Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
>
> Each part alone would not suffice to make a ring of power. By way of
> analogy, the penis is made up of soft tissue, and pumped in blood. By
> themselves neither of these is very rigid or strong, but when the soft
> tissue of the penis is pumped full of blood, then the organ extends and
> becomes rigid, strong and large. The loss of the blood would make the
> penis deflate, while the loss of structural integrity of the soft tissue
> would be too horrible to contemplate. In a similar way the metal of the
> ring is hardened by the infinite current flowing through it, and the
> current is contained by the metal.
>
Uhhgg!
So Sauron lost his cock-Ring?
I'm glad Tolkien dropped that aspect of the story.
:-)
T.A.
Jette Goldie
"the softrat" <sof...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:gim7lv8mr2v4k7coe...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:19:39 GMT, "Jette Goldie"
> <j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
> >
> >My best friend insists that the 2nd movie is the best of the 4 -
> >but then she's seriously got the hots for Michael Ironside ;-)
> >
> >(she seems to go for men who are .....*thinning* on top)
>
> (like Sean C.?)
Nope. Like Michael Ironside or the guy from the A Team.
or her husband ;-)
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
The American wrote:
Who says he did? :)
The ring yearns for it's maker, ... it wants to be found, ... it tries
to force the right people to 'pick it up' , it grows large and slips off
at just the wrong times, ... it inspires such feelings of love in its
owner that he couldn't possibly destroy it, ... it possesses its owner.
And the greatest torment one would feel would be seeing it on the hand
of another.
Sounds penile enough. ;)
Hasan
The American
"Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in message
> >
>
> Who says he did? :)
>
> The ring yearns for it's maker, ... it wants to be found, ... it tries
> to force the right people to 'pick it up' , it grows large and slips off
> at just the wrong times, ... it inspires such feelings of love in its
> owner that he couldn't possibly destroy it, ... it possesses its owner.
>
> And the greatest torment one would feel would be seeing it on the hand
> of another.
>
> Sounds penile enough. ;)
>
LOL!!!
T.A.
Alexander Giles
>>
> > Also because of ohms law - what voltage is in the ring? Therefore we
can
> > work out the power (W) by multiplying V and I :)
> >
So the ring has a power of 0 (0 * 0 = 0)
Or maybe infinity...
--
Alexander Giles, London
"There never was much hope, just a fools hope"
xande...@hotpop.com
Ikema
<syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote:
>
>
>> Uhhgg!
>> So Sauron lost his cock-Ring?
>> I'm glad Tolkien dropped that aspect of the story.
>> :-)
>>
>> T.A.
>>
>
>Who says he did? :)
>
>The ring yearns for it's maker, ... it wants to be found, ... it tries
>to force the right people to 'pick it up' , it grows large and slips off
>at just the wrong times, ... it inspires such feelings of love in its
>owner that he couldn't possibly destroy it, ... it possesses its owner.
>
>And the greatest torment one would feel would be seeing it on the hand
>of another.
>
>Sounds penile enough. ;)
>
>Hasan
>
Me-Wonderist if Sauron might haveth underestimated Middle-Earths
Penil-Codes <bg>
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>
>>
>> Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of
>> the science behind it.
>>
>> The ring:
>>
>> The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties as
>> outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the ring
>> is a room-temperature superconductor.
>>
>>
>
>
Ring Theory
part 3
Details of the eddy currents inside the ring
There are 2 stable modes of circulation of current inside the ring,
identified by me so far.
1. The ring will typically have 2 currents of opposite direction inside.
This is because parallel currents going in the opposite directions
will repel each other as far apart as they can. Therefore two paralle
opposite-facing currents will never meet inside the ring, but be as far
away as they possibly can.
2. Any currents within the ring can have several modes of oscillation.
For example:
Double helix oscillation mode
Similar to the 2 parallel currents going in opposite directions
repelling each other (mentioned above), 2 parallel currents going in the
same direction will attract each other. And 2 currents meeting at right
angles at different heights will not have any effect on each other.
Therefore the following pattern will be a stable one:
current made up of 2 sub branches
the shape is sinusoidal, diagram is flat topped for convenience in drawing.
I = I1 and I2. both currents flowing from right to left.
________ ________
/ \ / \
/ \/ \
\ /\ /
\________/ \________/
time axis
X----P-----X-----P-----X
I1
________
/ \
/ \
\ /
\________/
and I2
________
/ \
/ \
\ /
\________/
At the points P on the time axis, the 2 currents are parallel. That is
when their attraction is the greatest and they begin to move to the
center.
At point X, they are perpendicular. That is the point when they have no
effect on each other (loosely speaking), and their direction doesn't
change. They pass each other without mixing. The actual interaction is
more complex, with loops like the ones formed when 2 highways meet in a
clover-leaf pattern. This ensures that the currents stay on track and
that they always have the same magnitude, in case one begins to grow
larger than the other.
So the ancient pagan image of the ring being represented by 2 snakes, is
extremely well thought picked. 2 snakes, intertwined, is a description
of the double helix as well as the 2 currents in the ring. Another name
for the ring was the Rosi-crucis, which is erroneously translated as the
red cross, but it really means "the crucible of dew." (1) The
superconductor ring is a vessel for capturing the high energy currents
of electricity.
(1) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/lords1.html
part 4 will be coming soon: how to destroy the ring. Maybe I'll do a
bit on capacitance effects, if it can explain the holes left in the
theories above.
Note: this is not pure fiction, it's to science what fantasy is to
history. reconstructed for the benefit of imaginative brains.
Hasan
Michael O'Neill
Firstly, we all live in four dimensions. Three merely allows forms to
exist. The fourth allows change to occur in the three dimensional
continuum. We call it time, so the one your thinking of might be the
fifth dimension.
Secondly, there's nothing mundane about transporting a living, breathing
four-dimensional entity totally into the fifth dimension. How would its
biological processes continue? Would it be able to think [assuming it
was able to before it went into the fifth dimension]?
Thirdly, the explanation Tolkien gave was that the Ring brought its
bearer halfway into the wraith world, without really explaining the
relationship between the wraith world and the "real" world. In the SIl,
spirits go to Mandos, which was then a real place in Valinor. Spirits
existed in the real world. It is another of Tolkien's inconsistencies
IMO which has never been addressed.
Fourthly, all the ring actually did for the innocent Frodo was make the
bearer invisible, not untouchable and he still cast a shadow at midday
IIRC .The other powers only came with practice and Tolkien does not
fully explain them. Exactly how Frodo was halfway in the wraith world is
a mystery to me. You only need to bend light around yourself to become
invisible. Infra-red is a more difficult feat since you emit it and
other wavelengths constantly while you're alive.
So back to the theory.
Fifthly, a Relativistic object cannot "be" relativistic in a four
dimensional continuum without seriously stressing space and time
locally. Invisible would be the last thing it could be. But if The Ring
was the physical expression in four dimensions of a five or six
dinensional object, [like a 2D ellipse is a slanted cut through a 3D
cone, for example] then not invisibility could be possible [by partly
translating the bearer along the fifth dinensional "body" of the Ring
Sixthly instantaneous relocation in space might be possible also, to
other points along the 5d body of the Ring which also intersect the 4D
universe we live. In theory infinite, each point of contact would take
up a finite amount of space, limiting available points. You could go to
*any* point, not every point, an dsince our universe is mostly "empty
space" a large subset of such points would be useless. Perhaps you'd
have a BANG as you arrived, with the displacement of air, or a SCHLUP
from the suction of air filling the vacuum as you left, and your clothes
and hairstyle would never look right!
LOL!
Later,
M.
Ikema
<syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote:
>
>
>Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>>
>
> ________ ________
> / \ / \
>/ \/ \
>\ /\ /
> \________/ \________/
>
Question: How does your theroy explain the rings ability to "moon" a
person whenever they attempt to draw it on a newsgroup <bg>
Ikema
wrote:
>Firstly, we all live in four dimensions. Three merely allows forms to
>exist. The fourth allows change to occur in the three dimensional
>continuum. We call it time, so the one your thinking of might be the
>fifth dimension.
>
>Secondly, there's nothing mundane about transporting a living, breathing
>four-dimensional entity totally into the fifth dimension. How would its
>biological processes continue? Would it be able to think [assuming it
>was able to before it went into the fifth dimension]?
>
>Thirdly, the explanation Tolkien gave was that the Ring brought its
>bearer halfway into the wraith world, without really explaining the
>relationship between the wraith world and the "real" world. In the SIl,
>spirits go to Mandos, which was then a real place in Valinor. Spirits
>existed in the real world. It is another of Tolkien's inconsistencies
>IMO which has never been addressed.
Maybe he meant the 'wraith world' to be representive of 'pergatory' or
even worst 'hell'. Just a quick guess OR maybe Tolkien only meant
Mandos for content spirits, aka Barrow Downs, Dead Marshes the results
of the 'unsatisfied' spirits
I believe the correct sound is "BAMPH" or "BAMF" followed by a
sulfuric smell.
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Ikema wrote:
It was forged under the light of a full moon. ;) Sauron's!
Hasan
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Michael O'Neill wrote:
> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>
>>None wrote:
>>
>>>Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>>>
>>>[rings fiction]
>>>
>>>Electrons have mass, about 1/2000 that of a Hydrogen atom. Photons do
>>>not have mass.
>>>
>>>If particles have *any* mass, the cannot maintain lightspeed. In fact,
>>>merely approaching lightspeed, say to one third lightspeed, should start
>>>to have relativistic effects such as increased mass.
>>>
>>>E = mass X the velocity of light squared.
>>>
>>>Ergo.
>>>
>>>Still, it was a fun read...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/tech/energy/t00110d.html
>>
>>Then I guess energy will travel at the speed of light in the
>>superconductor, but the electrons themselves will be much slower. Just
>>like in an ordinary metal.
>>
>>
>>>None.
>
>
> Firstly, we all live in four dimensions. Three merely allows forms to
> exist. The fourth allows change to occur in the three dimensional
> continuum. We call it time, so the one your thinking of might be the
> fifth dimension.
>
That's sci fi talk, but nothing more. The counting of time with the 3
space dimensions doesn't make it the same as them. time is not the
fourth spatial dimension.
> Secondly, there's nothing mundane about transporting a living, breathing
> four-dimensional entity totally into the fifth dimension. How would its
> biological processes continue? Would it be able to think [assuming it
> was able to before it went into the fifth dimension]?
Ask someone who went into the fourth dimension. I don't know. I don't
think it's a problem though, assuming you are wearing a space suit. A
trip in 4-d space might be like plucking a fish out of water -- or
putting a fish in the center of the earth.
You raise a good point. I forgot about the wraith world. That has
probably got to be 4th dimension related, and therefore the ring should
explain it somehow. The ring might be like a "roller-coaster loop" in
two-dimensional flatland, since that would be the 2-d equivalent of a
ring. If the loop is rotating constantly, merely putting your finger
into it would make you rotate too, seeing the 3-d world for the first
time until the rotation was complete or you took your finger out and
fell back onto the 2-d ground--although upside down. (Frodo would have
to come back a mirror image of himself depending on that exact instant
which he took the ring off. Heart on the right, etc.)
A lot more theory to think about. What does Tolkien say about this.?
>
> Thirdly, the explanation Tolkien gave was that the Ring brought its
> bearer halfway into the wraith world, without really explaining the
> relationship between the wraith world and the "real" world. In the SIl,
> spirits go to Mandos, which was then a real place in Valinor. Spirits
> existed in the real world. It is another of Tolkien's inconsistencies
> IMO which has never been addressed.
Halfway....I wonder if that makes it more plausible.
>
> Fourthly, all the ring actually did for the innocent Frodo was make the
> bearer invisible, not untouchable and he still cast a shadow at midday
Sound travels better in 4-space than 3-space, since there are less
objects to reflect off of. Like standing 100 feet above a flat city on
earth improves your line of sight view of all the things there, moving
into 4-space would better your field of view and field of hearing.
> IIRC .The other powers only came with practice and Tolkien does not
> fully explain them. Exactly how Frodo was halfway in the wraith world is
> a mystery to me. You only need to bend light around yourself to become
> invisible. Infra-red is a more difficult feat since you emit it and
> other wavelengths constantly while you're alive.
>
No, disappearing itself is a no brainer if you lift yourself into a
higher dimension. the only people who would be able to see you would be
other people already in that dimension.
> So back to the theory.
>
<crap deleted.> Honestly, you aren't serious about it.
Maybe you aren't serious about any of it at all, above either.
Hasan
Dr. Ernst Stavro Blofeld
> part 4 will be coming soon: how to destroy the ring. Maybe I'll do a
> bit on capacitance effects, if it can explain the holes left in the
> theories above.
>
> Note: this is not pure fiction, it's to science what fantasy is to
> history. reconstructed for the benefit of imaginative brains.
Very entertaining, Hasan. I used to post a little "Ring Physics" too, back
in the day. (Google "Alternative Victory" here in AFT, Nov. 2000.) *sigh*
memories...
Regarding Part 4 (destruction of the Ring,) I suggest perhaps the extreme
heat of the Crack of Doom destroys the Ring because the wavelength of the
most intense blackbody radiation at that temperature equals exactly the
distance between the atoms of the Ring's crystal lattice. What do you
estimate the lattice distance to be, and what corresponding temperature do
you compute for the Crack of Doom? (If you think this idea is way off-target
from your concept, please ignore.)
If you do a Part 5 on how Sauron got his energy into the Ring, I suggest
something like the idea that he devised a pair of rectifiers, hooked them up
to a superconducting solenoid, put the Ring inside that, and then grabbed
the other ends of the rectifiers with his bare hands. The (mainly
electrostatic) energy of his spirit would be rectified into the solenoid
current, which would induce the twin opposing currents in the Ring. The
experience must have been extremely "draining" for him.
Oh, and thanks for posting in COTW! (;^)
--
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Lord Pęlluin,) Ph.D., Count of Tolfalas
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
Dr. Ernst Stavro Blofeld wrote:
> "Hasdrubal Hamilcar" <syed_hasa...@rogers.com-nospam> wrote in
> message:
>
>
>>part 4 will be coming soon: how to destroy the ring. Maybe I'll do a
>>bit on capacitance effects, if it can explain the holes left in the
>>theories above.
>>
>>Note: this is not pure fiction, it's to science what fantasy is to
>>history. reconstructed for the benefit of imaginative brains.
>
>
> Very entertaining, Hasan. I used to post a little "Ring Physics" too, back
> in the day. (Google "Alternative Victory" here in AFT, Nov. 2000.) *sigh*
> memories...
>
> Regarding Part 4 (destruction of the Ring,) I suggest perhaps the extreme
> heat of the Crack of Doom destroys the Ring because the wavelength of the
> most intense blackbody radiation at that temperature equals exactly the
> distance between the atoms of the Ring's crystal lattice. What do you
> estimate the lattice distance to be, and what corresponding temperature do
> you compute for the Crack of Doom? (If you think this idea is way off-target
> from your concept, please ignore.)
I had something different in mind. I thought that the natural frequency
of the ring would be the the number of times persecond that the current
completes a full loop around the ring. Assume that it takes some time
for the ring current to redistribute itself to compensate after you
strike it hard in one place.
Since the ring current obviously can handle slow low-frequency
vibrations, it is natural to assume that it will not handle
high-frequency vibrations (or else it would be truly divine ring, which
is inpenetrable and indestructible. That would be a sign of God then.)
So the "knee" of the curve where the ring starts to lose its strength
will be (assuming that this weakness is the result of the ring current's
limitations) at the frequency f_breaking
f_breaking = speed of light in a semiconductor / ring circumference
f_breaking = c / l
assume c = 200,000 km/second
l = pi * diameter of ring
assume diameter of ring = 1.7 centimetres
l = 5.3 centimeters or 0.000053 kilometres also written as 5.3E-5
so f_breaking = 3.7E9 or 3.7 Gigahertz
If you hit the ring at a frequency higher than that, this first order
analysis says that the ring strength will degrade, more so the higher
you go.
ring strength
|high
|--------x
| \
| \
| \
| \
| \
|low \
| \
---------+--------+------------
0 3 6
billion billion
frequency
x marks the breaking point
The simple hammering will eventually wear down the ring a bit. There
are other things to consider too (other currents coming from the middle
of the ring) but this is a simple first order analuysis.
>
> If you do a Part 5 on how Sauron got his energy into the Ring, I suggest
> something like the idea that he devised a pair of rectifiers, hooked them up
> to a superconducting solenoid, put the Ring inside that, and then grabbed
> the other ends of the rectifiers with his bare hands. The (mainly
> electrostatic) energy of his spirit would be rectified into the solenoid
> current, which would induce the twin opposing currents in the Ring. The
> experience must have been extremely "draining" for him.
>
Well Tolkien over and over mentions that Sauron poured his "power" into
the ring, so that is the operative word here: power. There are several
ways to get power into a superconductor ring.
One is to place the ring in a magnetic field, when it is being forged at
a high temperature. When the ring is cooled, the superconductivity
starts and the ring generates currents to counter the magentic flux from
outside. When the magnetic field goes away, the currents remain, and
have been found in laboratories to decay in less than 1 part in 1
billion, over a few years. (This means they would last billions of
years before decaying appreciably.)
Perhaps Sauron used a Josephson junction embedded in the ring, (which
blocks current from passing through). The J-junction acts like a
switch, controlled from outside by magnets. If the switch is open, then
the ring would not be a ring *O* but a *U* and you could connect 2 high
voltage power lines to either end of the ring, and the current would
circulate in one half of the ring. Closing the switch and removing the
lines (not sure how you could do these simultaneously) would make the
same current circulate in the ring. If the Josephson junction is still
there in the ring, then maybe the wizarsd could figure out a way to
activate it. It would be like slicing the ring with a razor blade, thus
blocking the current and destroying the ring (and everything else
nearby.) Maybe finding out the right magnetic field frequency would do
just that ....
The ring could be a bomb as well, ... if it was meant to be deliberately
destroyed releasing all its energy at once. That would be a most
diabolical use for it.!
> Oh, and thanks for posting in COTW! (;^)
>
What's that?
Dr. Ernst Stavro Blofeld
message:
Dr. Ernst Stavro Blofeld wrote:
<pins>
> I had something different in mind. I thought that the natural frequency
> of the ring would be the the number of times persecond that the current
> completes a full loop around the ring. Assume that it takes some time
> for the ring current to redistribute itself to compensate after you
> strike it hard in one place.
>
> Since the ring current obviously can handle slow low-frequency
> vibrations, it is natural to assume that it will not handle
> high-frequency vibrations (or else it would be truly divine ring, which
> is inpenetrable and indestructible. That would be a sign of God then.)
> So the "knee" of the curve where the ring starts to lose its strength
> will be (assuming that this weakness is the result of the ring current's
> limitations) at the frequency f_breaking
>
> f_breaking = speed of light in a semiconductor / ring circumference
> f_breaking = c / l
> assume c = 200,000 km/second
> l = pi * diameter of ring
> assume diameter of ring = 1.7 centimetres
> l = 5.3 centimeters or 0.000053 kilometres also written as 5.3E-5
>
> so f_breaking = 3.7E9 or 3.7 Gigahertz
>
> If you hit the ring at a frequency higher than that, this first order
> analysis says that the ring strength will degrade, more so the higher
> you go.
<graph>
Yes, that sounds better than the "lattice frequency" idea.
The J-junction idea is interesting for some applications (casting lightning
bolts?) but I think I prefer the idea of pumping and extracting the energy
inductively. I would also like to see your theories on the "physiological"
processes by which Sauron (and other suitably equipped and skilled Maia)
could direct the Ring's power to do other things besides invisibility.
(Change size? Transform matter?) Maybe it detects small changes in the
wearer's body magnetism by means of a SQUID (superconducting quantum
interference device?) And what would be some useful effects of modifying the
amplitude of the harmonics in the oscillations of the Ring's currents?
> The ring could be a bomb as well, ... if it was meant to be deliberately
> destroyed releasing all its energy at once. That would be a most
> diabolical use for it.!
Yes, that is typical of villains, to have a self-destruct mechanism ready
for whenever needed.
> > Oh, and thanks for posting in COTW!
>
> What's that?
"Chapter Of The Week." Pardon my abbreviation. (Have you considered
volunteering to do a chapter?)
Hasdrubal Hamilcar
I saw your article. It's fun to think about, although inventing a
military-industrial complex to defeat Sauron sounds awfully familiar !
I think if the elves and men ever built a dam, hydro station, etc., they
would find that a ring superconductor would fit in nicely in their
station to store the power production at night (when demand falls lower
than the minimum supply) and release it next day. Therefore the latter
day Isildurs would take the ring, put it in a crate, ship it to
Rivendell and use it in their power station. The ring would have a new
master, would control the juice for a million people, and instead of a
Dark Lord we would have a Light and Power company to contend with. :O
(Real life: I read that Los Alamos experimented with donut shaped
superconductors to store hydro electricity produced during the night,
They built a prototype, and it worked, but it was still too fragile to
be used. (Obviously they didn't have room temperature superconductors
yet.) One slip of a magnet would cause the whole superconducting effect
to go haywire, exploding the ring. )
> them up
>
>>>to a superconducting solenoid, put the Ring inside that, and then
>
> grabbed
>
>
>
> The J-junction idea is interesting for some applications (casting lightning
> bolts?) but I think I prefer the idea of pumping and extracting the energy
> inductively. I would also like to see your theories on the "physiological"
Maybe Sauron buried the ring deep in the earth, where it came in contact
with the supermagnet under the earth, which produces the earths magnetic
field, and this was used to "charge" the ring. It all depends on the
geophysics of Arda. ;) It would be a neat little theory.
> processes by which Sauron (and other suitably equipped and skilled Maia)
> could direct the Ring's power to do other things besides invisibility.
> (Change size? Transform matter?) Maybe it detects small changes in the
> wearer's body magnetism by means of a SQUID (superconducting quantum
> interference device?) And what would be some useful effects of modifying the
> amplitude of the harmonics in the oscillations of the Ring's currents?
>
Yes, the ring might be giving off residual magnetic fields which cause
people to "like" it. When the ring is near the Nazgul, or in danger,
or feels its masters call, then it reacts in a subtle way and the fields
increase, and the wearer perceives it too. That's why the effect is so
strong and yet so subtle. Recall in Bilbos house when Gandalf was
daring Frodo to try to destroy the ring. Frodo holds it in his hand,
falls silent, and thinks, and the hold the ring has on him is barely
perceptible ... he barely senses the influence, but it is present and
unbeatable. A slight external magnetic field can be overwhelmed by a
conscious mind, but maybe not a superconducting magnet.
More generally, I think that all living creatures that possess a spirit
(not soul, but spirit) that inhabits the fourth dimension. This is why
it has never been seen before by any human eyes. The spirit in
localized inside of us (in 3d-space), but in a higher dimension.
<explanation>
If you imagine a cylinder on a tabletop, to a 2-D ant on the table the
cylinder looks like just a circle, but there is a whole different 3-D
obkect above it. Similarly we all look like bodies, but the spirit is
the stuff you can't see.
</explanation>
If the 4 dimensional structure of the ring is determinbed, then there
may be a theory there for the interaction of ring and spirit.
Note that I think that Balrogs have four dimensional 'wings.' That
explains the shadow about him growing "like two wings." The light
source is in the fourth dimension, and the shadow we see is its wings'
shadow cast on dust particles in 3-space. The Balrogs wings are in the
fourth dimension, and they cast a shadow in the 3rd dimension. As they
rotate, the shadow grows and lessens. This explanation does not require
soot and ash to be obscuring the flames of the Balrog, as in the recent
LOTR movies. Rather the dust merely reflects higher 4-D light, and thus
the shadow is noticeable. And if Balrog shadow increases when it sees a
pretty lady, try to pretend you don't see it. Your life may depend on
it. ;)
If anybody here knows how a hyper-ring (a four dimensional ring) looks,
then please tell us!
>
>>>Oh, and thanks for posting in COTW!
>>
>>What's that?
>
>
> "Chapter Of The Week." Pardon my abbreviation. (Have you considered
> volunteering to do a chapter?)
>
Oh yah! I was just trying to think about what my favourite chapter was.
Hasan Murtaza
Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>
>> Hasdrubal Hamilcar wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Since LOTR inhabits a fantasy universe, let's play with a little of
>>> the science behind it.
>>>
>>> The ring:
>>>
>>> The ring is made of a special material, and it's magical properties
>>> as outlined in the book can be explained by understanding that the
>>> ring is a room-temperature superconductor.
>>>
>>>
Ring theory
part 4
The material of the ring of power
Previously, I alluded to the crystal structure of the ring, and that it
was a metal. I will now revisit that claim and outline the possible
nature of the material in fuller detail. In short, it is not really a
metal, but rather only appears to be from the outside, due to -- you
guessed it, the ring current. The real material of the ring is probably
a ceramic which acts like a superconductor at room temperatures.
First a quote from "Materials, a scientific american book", Freeman and
company, 1967.
the following is true in
<real life>
"The nature of metals"
Metals are ... strong. All these properties of metals flow from the
metallic bond. The basis of the bond is that in a metal each atom is
closely surrounded by similar atoms, each with only a few electrons in
its outer electron shell. In this situation the electron clouds overlap
and the loosely held outer electrons are so completely sharwed as to be
no longer assosciated with individual atoms. Leaving the metal atoms in
place as ions, they form an *electron gas*, a pervasive glue that moves
freely among the ions and binds them together.
"Because the electrons are free to move in an electric field, metals
conduct electricity. Because free electrons absorb and then radiate
back most of the light that falls on them, metals are opaque and
lustrous. Because free electrons can transfer thermal energy, metals
conduct heat effectively."
pp 39-40.
Ceramics
(such as stone, brick etc.)
"...ceramics are strongly resistant to attack by nearly all chemicals.
This accounts for many of their uses--in plumbing, household utensils
and so forth. They are indispensible where a structural material must
withstand very high temperatures, at which the ravages of oxygen will
destroy the strength of a metal. "
</real life>
Superconductors can be formed from metals such as mercury, or ceramics.
The ceramic material may have very high resistance at room temperatures,
but be superconducting at low temps. In fact, materials that are poor
conductors at room temeprature may be better as superconductors.
Ceramics have many of the properties of the one ring: resistance to
heat, strength, lightness, but they have one weakness: they are
brittle. You can chip away at a ceramic slowly and it will flake off.
Recall, all the properties of metals can be explained by the electron
gas that exists within it, like a spirit inhabiting the body. But as we
have seen ad nauseum in the other articles, the ring is likely to
possess a ring current whichi flows on the surface, and is likely a
river of electronc flowing constantly all over the surface. This river
of electons makes the ceramic superconductor appear like a metal from
the outside, and provides mechanical protection against brittleness
which bedevils ceramics. Combined at last, ceramic on the inside for
compression strength and heat resistance, 'metallic' on the outside for
tension strength and furthur heat resistance, and you have the one
ring. Unstoppable by normal means. The ring is therefore a composite,
a smart material, metal made from earth and electricity by Sauron as God
made life from earth and water. A perfect weapon for a antigod to
possess. Pure evil. No wonder it had so much attraction for the
peoples of the earth.
Speculation aside, has anyone ever bothered to find out the strength of
a superconductor ring when an appreciable amount of current flows within
it?
Hasan
Toronto.
Flame of the West
> We call it time, so the one your thinking of might be the
> fifth dimension.
Marry me Bill, got the wedding bell blues...
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.