Modem ?
George
ihave a pc but the modem is not working . Where can i buy one and how
much do thay cost .
Im kind of new to pc`s i have a cousint that knows how to put them in
and install them to my isp
thanks for any help George
Emails are welcome
CBFalconer
>
> Hello just passing threw some pc groups
Where did you throw them? What did you pass and is it polite?
> ihave a pc but the modem is not working . Where can i buy one
> and how much do thay cost .
What's an 'ihave'? What's an 'i'? I never bought a thay.
Something to do with horses perhaps?
> Im kind of new to pc`s i have a cousint that knows how to put them in
> and install them to my isp
What's an Im?. Is it a child of new (I see no other way to
interpret 'kind of'). What's a pc's i, and does belonging to a pc
make it significantly different from an 'i'. I can't parse
cousint either.
You may notice what results from disturbing a herd of crusty old
fogies with non-topical non-English random noises. Sedulously
eschew equivocal intonations.
--
Chuck F (cbfal...@yahoo.com) (cbfal...@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
GerardS
|> George) wrote:|
|> Hello just passing threw some pc groups
|> much do thay cost .
|> Im kind of new to pc`s i have a cousint that knows how to put them in
|> and install them to my isp
|> thanks for any help George
|
Heck, I have a 1200bps modem, that you're welcome to have. _____Gerard S.
Steve O'Hara-Smith
CBFalconer <cbfal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
C> > ihave a pc but the modem is not working . Where can i buy one
C> > and how much do thay cost .
C>
C> What's an 'ihave'?
It's documented in the NNTP RFC.
--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors
The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see:
| http://www.sohara.org/
arargh...@not.at.enteract.com
>Word has it that on Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:27:16 -0700, in this august
>forum, Jonathan Griffitts <jgrif...@spamcop.net> said:
>
>>In article <v1jn7aq...@corp.supernews.com>, GerardS
>><Ger...@PrairieTech.Net> writes
>>I call your 1200bps and raise you a Bell 103. But you're NOT welcome to
>>have it.
>
>Hm, I used to have a 300bps acoustic coupler, but I round-filed it many
>years ago, unfortunately. I /do/ still have one of the original 'World
>Chip' all-standards modem chip though, so I could build a 1200/75 &
>300/300 modem if I really wanted to.
I still have two acoustic couplers, a MultiTech FM-30 from about 1978,
and a US Robotics which must be an very early model, because when I
open it up, it is a breadboard mess.
--
Arargh (at arargh dot com) http://www.arargh.com
To reply by email, change the domain name, and remove the garbage.
(Enteract can keep the spam, they are gone anyway)
jmfb...@aol.com
Jonathan Griffitts <jgrif...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>In article <v1jn7aq...@corp.supernews.com>, GerardS
><Ger...@PrairieTech.Net> writes
>have it.
As long as you don't drop carrier.
I wonder if the kid understands anything we're talking about?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
jchausler
arargh...@NOT.AT.enteract.com wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:12:23 +1100, Lionel <n...@alt.net> wrote:
>
> >>I call your 1200bps and raise you a Bell 103. But you're NOT welcome to
> >>have it.
> >
> >Hm, I used to have a 300bps acoustic coupler, but I round-filed it many
> >years ago, unfortunately. I /do/ still have one of the original 'World
> >Chip' all-standards modem chip though, so I could build a 1200/75 &
> >300/300 modem if I really wanted to.
>
> I still have two acoustic couplers, a MultiTech FM-30 from about 1978,
> and a US Robotics which must be an very early model, because when I
> open it up, it is a breadboard mess.
I'll see your MultiTech and raise you an
Anderson Jacobson ADC 300, in a nice
wood box with all discrete components,
from the mid to late 1960's. It was still
working a few years ago but seems to have
developed a problem since. This unit
comes with both RS232 and 20 MA current
loop interfaces so you can directly connect
it to that model 33 Teletype :-) I also have
two Novation CAT's from the late 70's
(One works, one doesn't). These were,
I think, the first acoustic coupler marketed
by a "real company" to the hobbyist market
(the penny whistle came before, of course).
Chris
AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE
$$
Charlie Gibbs
the size of a pack of cigarettes but about half again as long.
No wall wart - it ran off a 9-volt battery. The data connector
was a 5-pin DIN; the modem came with an adapter cable that had
a DB-25 on the other end.
Or at least that's as well as I can remember it. We never got
much use out of it - it was way too flaky. I suspect that a
single 9-volt battery just isn't enough to do decent RS-232
voltage levels, especially through a cheap 1985-vintage circuit.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
arargh...@not.at.enteract.com
wrote:
<snip>
>> I still have two acoustic couplers, a MultiTech FM-30 from about 1978,
>> and a US Robotics which must be an very early model, because when I
>> open it up, it is a breadboard mess.
I found the USR, it is model USR-310, s/n 3396, and the IC's inside
have 77 & 78 date codes.
I think I bought the MT in 76? maybe 77. It was a commerical unit.
>I'll see your MultiTech and raise you an Anderson Jacobson ADC 300, in a nice
>wood box with all discrete components, from the mid to late 1960's. It was still
>working a few years ago but seems to have developed a problem since. This unit
>comes with both RS232 and 20 MA current loop interfaces so you can directly connect
>it to that model 33 Teletype :-) I also have two Novation CAT's from the late 70's
>(One works, one doesn't). These were, I think, the first acoustic coupler marketed
>by a "real company" to the hobbyist market (the penny whistle came before, of course).
Yes, I think so.
Well, the best I can do with old hardware, are minicomputers from the
early 70's. Or, old terminals.
Andre van Eyssen
commit to usenet:
> I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
I'll see your 2k4 and raise you a 300bps leased line modem.
--
Andre.
Brian Inglis
<cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>An associate had an Anchor Automation modem. It was a box about
>the size of a pack of cigarettes but about half again as long.
>No wall wart - it ran off a 9-volt battery. The data connector
>was a 5-pin DIN; the modem came with an adapter cable that had
>a DB-25 on the other end.
>
>Or at least that's as well as I can remember it. We never got
>much use out of it - it was way too flaky. I suspect that a
>single 9-volt battery just isn't enough to do decent RS-232
>voltage levels, especially through a cheap 1985-vintage circuit.
Two signal wires is not really enough to do reliable modem
control, even with manual dial (no RI needed): three signals
(DTR, DSR, DCD), plus two data (TX, RX), plus ground (GND) on
six pins would be minimal.
Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
--
Brian....@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca)
fake address use address above to reply
ab...@aol.com tos...@aol.com ab...@att.com ab...@earthlink.com
ab...@hotmail.com ab...@mci.com ab...@msn.com ab...@sprint.com
ab...@yahoo.com ab...@cadvision.com ab...@shaw.ca ab...@telus.com
ab...@ibsystems.com u...@ftc.gov spam traps
Michael J. Albanese
> | I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
>
> Heck, I have a 1200bps modem, that you're welcome to have. _____Gerard S.
Yeah, but the 2400bps modem would be twice't as fast, especially if he
has to send stuff to his cousint, who perhaps lives with his sister
across't the tracks on the other side of town.
Mike
--
(remove 'revoke-my-' from address for email)
jmfb...@aol.com
"Michael J. Albanese" <mjalb...@revoke-my-charter.net> wrote:
>GerardS wrote:
>
>> | I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
>>
>> Heck, I have a 1200bps modem, that you're welcome to have. _____Gerard
S.
>
>Yeah, but the 2400bps modem would be twice't as fast, especially if he
>has to send stuff to his cousint, who perhaps lives with his sister
>across't the tracks on the other side of town.
The OP did report that he had a flaky modem. The "cousint"
might be a strange call to a trig function. Twice't couldn't
be a dropped bit. Some program may have substituted an s'
for n'.
Charlie Gibbs
Being the packrat that I am, I still have my original 300-bps
"Manual Mini-Modem" ($150 at the time). Flip the power switch
one way to use originate frequencies, flip it the other way to
use the answer frequencies. I hacked a relay into it, driven
from DTR through a transistor, that would make and break the
phone line connection. By writing a suitable driver for MEX I
wound up with a system that could pulse-dial (I got away with
20 pps, which was wasn't a lot slower than tone dialing). The
driver listened for the carrier detect line, so I could hammer
away at busy BBSes until I got in (at which time MEX would start
beeping so I could return to the computer from whatever else
I was doing to pass the time).
Jeff Raben
Well maybe not. I would hate to cripple my IMSAI.
Jeff
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
news:1291.138T2...@kltpzyxm.invalid...
greymaus
> ave...@purplecow.org (Andre van Eyssen) writes:
>
>>On or around Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:26:45 +1100, Lionel <n...@alt.net> did
>>commit to usenet:
>>
>>> I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
>>
>>I'll see your 2k4 and raise you a 300bps leased line modem.
>
> Being the packrat that I am, I still have my original 300-bps
> "Manual Mini-Modem" ($150 at the time). Flip the power switch
> one way to use originate frequencies, flip it the other way to
> use the answer frequencies. I hacked a relay into it, driven
> from DTR through a transistor, that would make and break the
> phone line connection. By writing a suitable driver for MEX I
> wound up with a system that could pulse-dial (I got away with
> 20 pps, which was wasn't a lot slower than tone dialing). The
> driver listened for the carrier detect line, so I could hammer
> away at busy BBSes until I got in (at which time MEX would start
> beeping so I could return to the computer from whatever else
> I was doing to pass the time).
originate and answer frequencies were different on each side of the
Atlantic?. The first modem I got was 300bps, couldnt get it to work,
so I brought it back and the more knowledgable person in the shop
smiled to himself and got me a 1200/75 one without telling me what was
wrong.
--
greymaus;
Follow up, don't e-mail, my killfile is savage;
Michael Black
in North America. I gather (well, I thought I read up on it at
one point years ago) that it was relatively easy to build, at
the cost of that assymetrical rate. People were describing how
to make 300baud modems, and others were asking around the same
time "how can I build a faster modem", yet in hobby circles
I don't remember 1200 baud showing up until it was the symmetrical
1200 baud system.
Michael
Brian Inglis
>Word has it that on Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:44:29 GMT, in this august forum,
>Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSw.ab.ca> said:
>
>>Two signal wires is not really enough to do reliable modem
>>control, even with manual dial (no RI needed): three signals
>>(DTR, DSR, DCD), plus two data (TX, RX), plus ground (GND) on
>>six pins would be minimal.
>
>If the modem uses inband status reporting (eg; Hayes or similar), you
>should be able to get by with only three signal lines: Tx, Rx & CTS.
What happens if you don't see CTS? You need a signal to reset the
modem.
Floyd Davidson
>Word has it that on 9 Jan 2003 08:14:09 GMT, in this august forum,
>et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) said:
>
>>I always wondered why that 1200/75 standard wasn't more popular here
>>in North America. I gather (well, I thought I read up on it at
>>one point years ago) that it was relatively easy to build, at
>>the cost of that assymetrical rate. People were describing how
>>to make 300baud modems, and others were asking around the same
>>time "how can I build a faster modem", yet in hobby circles
>>I don't remember 1200 baud showing up until it was the symmetrical
>>1200 baud system.
>
>BBS/terminal use, as 75bps is faster than most people can type, & 1200
>is faster than most people can read.
It was very common in the US too, for what it is intended.
Between a printer or a terminal and a computer. In both cases
the device can receive faster data but do not require a high
speed to send data.
This was common in commercial installations, but of course very
few home computer users would have a need to locate either a
terminal or a printer some distance away from the computer;
hence, typically home users didn't even know such modems
existed.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl...@barrow.com
Floyd Davidson
>Word has it that on Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:44:29 GMT, in this august forum,
>Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSw.ab.ca> said:
>
>>Two signal wires is not really enough to do reliable modem
>>control, even with manual dial (no RI needed): three signals
>>(DTR, DSR, DCD), plus two data (TX, RX), plus ground (GND) on
>>six pins would be minimal.
>
>should be able to get by with only three signal lines: Tx, Rx & CTS.
There has to be a ground.
But CTS isn't needed. Inband signaling could be used.
jchausler
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> In article <slrnb1n4eb....@dunhill.gothconsultants.com>
> ave...@purplecow.org (Andre van Eyssen) writes:
>
> >On or around Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:26:45 +1100, Lionel <n...@alt.net> did
> >commit to usenet:
> >
> >> I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
> >
> >I'll see your 2k4 and raise you a 300bps leased line modem.
>
> Being the packrat that I am, I still have my original 300-bps
> "Manual Mini-Modem" ($150 at the time). Flip the power switch
> one way to use originate frequencies, flip it the other way to
> use the answer frequencies. I hacked a relay into it, driven
> from DTR through a transistor, that would make and break the
> phone line connection. By writing a suitable driver for MEX I
> wound up with a system that could pulse-dial (I got away with
> 20 pps, which was wasn't a lot slower than tone dialing). The
> driver listened for the carrier detect line, so I could hammer
> away at busy BBSes until I got in (at which time MEX would start
> beeping so I could return to the computer from whatever else
> I was doing to pass the time).
Don't throw out that 300 baud 103A type modem,
people have found a new use for it. The Morse
Telegraph Club, an international group although
primarily in the US and Canada, uses them for
interconnecting "telegraph stations". The
Radio Shack DCM series are particularly
popular and sought after. The national
organization is looking for donations. They
are modified to add a small "terminal unit"
which interfaces to classic telegraph keys
and sounders. With this equipment, two
telegraphers can communicate. Further, there
are several privately maintained "telegraph
hubs", as well as one one maintained by
AT&T Canada on 800 numbers (and there's
talk AT&T US is going to start one up too)
which allow an number of telegraph operators
to interconnect all apparently on one "line"
just like an original telegraph party line
"way wire". Who says old technology isn't
useful.
Bernie Dwyer
Lionel wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> 1200/75 was greatly used in Europe & Australia. It was excellent for
> BBS/terminal use, as 75bps is faster than most people can type, & 1200
> is faster than most people can read.
>
> --
> W
> . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
> \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
> ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
--
I think it's still used on EFT and ATM terminals in Australia, at least.
Bernie Dwyer
Dump the z to reply to me
*****************************
/lurk
greymaus
>> smiled to himself and got me a 1200/75 one without telling me what was
>> wrong.
>>
> I always wondered why that 1200/75 standard wasn't more popular here
> in North America. I gather (well, I thought I read up on it at
> one point years ago) that it was relatively easy to build, at
> the cost of that assymetrical rate. People were describing how
> to make 300baud modems, and others were asking around the same
> time "how can I build a faster modem", yet in hobby circles
> I don't remember 1200 baud showing up until it was the symmetrical
> 1200 baud system.
>
> Michael
>
On a lot of the BBS, there was a upload/download ratio, like on the
warez sites now. Impossible with 1200/75, BBS owners didnt want you
trying to upload at 75, hogging their lines. Very slow at 300/300.
I still have the Amiga disks that i stored the files on, no Maggie
to read them on.
Floyd Davidson
>Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> said:
>>Lionel <n...@alt.net> wrote:
>>>Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSw.ab.ca> said:
>>>
>>>>Two signal wires is not really enough to do reliable modem
>>>>control, even with manual dial (no RI needed): three signals
>>>>(DTR, DSR, DCD), plus two data (TX, RX), plus ground (GND) on
>>>>six pins would be minimal.
>>>
>>>If the modem uses inband status reporting (eg; Hayes or similar), you
>>>should be able to get by with only three signal lines: Tx, Rx & CTS.
>>
>>There has to be a ground.
>>
>>But CTS isn't needed. Inband signaling could be used.
>
>If you don't mind all the horrible kludges necessary to make xon/xoff
>work with 8 bit binary data streams. Using CTS is much cleaner, & more
>efficient, & one tends to care a lot about efficiency at low comm's
>speeds.
True, but by the exact same argument you need RTS, not to mention
DTR and DSR, and maybe DCD.
Of course, in some given situation more wires may or may not be
easier than more software kludges. :-)
Morten Reistad
>Word has it that on Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:51:19 +1000, in this august
>forum, Bernie Dwyer <ber...@caloundra.qld.gov.au> said:
>
>>Lionel wrote:
>>> 1200/75 was greatly used in Europe & Australia. It was excellent for
>>> BBS/terminal use, as 75bps is faster than most people can type, & 1200
>>> is faster than most people can read.
>
>
>that Telstra still only officially supports 9600bps max on the PSTN.)
>I've also heard that X.25 is in use at some banks.
You would be surprised to know how much X.25 is still in existance.
Around 1% of internet exchange traffic here was X.25 through XOT
as late as the autumn of 2001. All the POS card terminals here use
X.25 to talk to the mother ship, as do fuel pumps and house alarms.
X.25 narrowband service is dirt cheap.
300/300 and 1200/75 with X.25 is still very much used, as are line
drivers that drive the copper pair. These groups are tagged with red
clips on the blocks here, and there is still more red than blue in
the CO's (blue is DSL plus leased digital like E1 etc).(I would guess
around 8% red and 5% blue in the last CO's I have seen).
-- mrr
Floyd Davidson
>Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> said:
>>Lionel <n...@alt.net> wrote:
>>>Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> said:
>>>>Lionel <n...@alt.net> wrote:
>>>>>Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSw.ab.ca> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Two signal wires is not really enough to do reliable modem
>>>>>>control, even with manual dial (no RI needed): three signals
>>>>>>(DTR, DSR, DCD), plus two data (TX, RX), plus ground (GND) on
>>>>>>six pins would be minimal.
>>>>>
>>>>>If the modem uses inband status reporting (eg; Hayes or similar), you
>>>>>should be able to get by with only three signal lines: Tx, Rx & CTS.
>>>>
>>>>There has to be a ground.
>>>>
>>>>But CTS isn't needed. Inband signaling could be used.
>>>
>>><nods>
>>>If you don't mind all the horrible kludges necessary to make xon/xoff
>>>work with 8 bit binary data streams. Using CTS is much cleaner, & more
>>>efficient, & one tends to care a lot about efficiency at low comm's
>>>speeds.
>>
>>True, but by the exact same argument you need RTS,
>
>extraordinarily unlikely, whereas the inverse situation is very likely.
I seem to remember when any speed over about 9600 bps was almost
guaranteed to overrun the input on every UNIX computer I had.
Actually, in some cases even 2400 could do that (an '83 Kaypro
running CP/M couldn't update the screen that fast).
>> not to mention
>>DTR and DSR, and maybe DCD.
>
>Bah! - I don't need any of that new-fangled rubbish.
Apparently some people do. It seems to me that the last time I
saw the configuration menus on a Cisco router, to my absolute
amazement a DS-1 interface status included simulated reports
labeled with the standard RS-232 control signal lead
nomenclature. Of course a DS-1 (T1) interface has no such
leads, but I guess people confortable with the meanings can deal
with that better than the standards used for T1 lines...
>>Of course, in some given situation more wires may or may not be
>>easier than more software kludges. :-)
>
>Indeed. ;)
Yep. And it might even be the same given situation! Give the
problem to a group of software people, you'll get kludges.
Give it to a group of hardware people, you'll buy more expensive
wire...
Mike Tomlinson
<cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes
> I hacked a relay into it, driven
>from DTR through a transistor, that would make and break the
>phone line connection. By writing a suitable driver for MEX I
>wound up with a system that could pulse-dial (I got away with
>20 pps, which was wasn't a lot slower than tone dialing).
Ah, memories. I did the same thing with a 1983 BBC Micro connected to a
Post Office Telecommunications (now BT) model 2B modem, driving a relay
from one of the data lines of the BBC's user port to do pulse dialling.
The 2B modem was in a huge metal case with a front flap. The case must
have measured about 12" x 12" x 9", weighed a ton, and the circuitry was
all discrete components on modules (metal cages which could be slid out
of the chassis.)
I have here a K&N wooden-boxed acoustic coupler. The lid can be closed
with the handset in the cups to prevent external noise from interfering
with the datacomms. There's no manufacture date on it, but some of the
ICs have 77xx date codes. Pictures at:
http://www.astro.livjm.ac.uk/~mdt/modem1.jpg
http://www.astro.livjm.ac.uk/~mdt/modem2.jpg
No idea if it works - one of those projects for a rainy day is to try
powering it up.
Joe Morris
>For one R&D project I worked on (a medical imaging system), I designed
>all the data aquisition hardware & the low-level S/W. I was under huge
>pressure to meet ridiculous deadlines, so I often found myself in
>situations where I fixed H/W bugs in S/W, or vice versa, on the basis of
>which would be easier to implement at the time. /Not/ something I'm
>proud of in retrospect.
Quality (and perhaps "elegance" as well) and short deadlines are mutually
incompatible.
I seriously doubt that anyone of the oldtimers here can truthfully claim
that never in their career did they *ever* create an "it ain't pretty
and my fingers are crossed but it seems to work" kludge that for at
least a short time went into production.
Joe Morris
Peter Ibbotson
news:avuf0g$ldg$1...@newslocal.mitre.org...
Guilty! I did some fairly ugly kludges for an 8 bit "ISA" bus interface to
an IDE drive. Worse still the bus was a kludge out of a custom ASIC without
much regard for "proper" timing. I've also been involved in similar designs
for 68K systems. The biggest problem is the lack of a good "spec" for IDE
drives in the early days (Individual manufacturers had specs, but I couldn't
find an official spec).
Other kludge designs include ethernet ports hanging off laptop parallel
ports, but then thats obviously ugly.
My personal all time favourite kludge is the resistors in the ZX spectrum
that joined the video and CPU data buses together (It wasn't me) that were
cheaper than some proper buffer chips.
--
Work pet...@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply
Home pe...@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX
Jonathan Griffitts
<n...@alt.net> writes
>Word has it that on 10 Jan 2003 09:27:41 -0900, in this august forum,
>Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> said:
. . .
>>
>>I seem to remember when any speed over about 9600 bps was almost
>>guaranteed to overrun the input on every UNIX computer I had.
>
>memory, 4MHz Z80 CP/M (& other) systems used to be able to keep up with
>9600bps without too much trouble. Some of the faster systems could
>manage 19,200 reliably.
I know that in about '85 I had trouble trying to transmit text to a VAX
750 running BSD Unix 4.2. It dropped characters badly at 2400 and 1200
bps and I had to fall back to 300 bps. This was an unloaded VAX in the
middle of the night. I was amazed.
In case you're wondering why I didn't use a better file transfer
protocol with handshaking: It was one of those rush situations where my
access was limited and none of the better options were easily available.
I just needed to get those files over IMMEDIATELY.
--
Jonathan Griffitts
AnyWare Engineering Boulder, CO, USA
voice/fax: 303 442-0556 email jgrif...@spamcop.net
Eric Sosman
> [...]
> I didn't know that. I had no exposure to Unix in its early days. From
> memory, 4MHz Z80 CP/M (& other) systems used to be able to keep up with
> 9600bps without too much trouble. Some of the faster systems could
> manage 19,200 reliably.
Data point: I wrote my own serial comm package for my
beloved old Kaypro 4-84 (4MHz Z80 CP/M) to communicate with
an external modem at 19200 bps. The thing would run pretty
much full-bore when just receiving characters and stuffing
them in buffers, but if characters were being sent to the
screen things slowed down drastically. Also, I needed to
quiesce the serial line and re-establish interrupt mode 0
before doing any disk activity; the Kaypro BIOS would get
mightily confused if a disk operation generated a mode-2
interrupt ...
CBFalconer
>
... snip ...
>
> I know that in about '85 I had trouble trying to transmit text to
> a VAX 750 running BSD Unix 4.2. It dropped characters badly at
> 2400 and 1200 bps and I had to fall back to 300 bps. This was an
> unloaded VAX in the middle of the night. I was amazed.
>
> In case you're wondering why I didn't use a better file transfer
> protocol with handshaking: It was one of those rush situations
> where my access was limited and none of the better options were
> easily available. I just needed to get those files over IMMEDIATELY.
Back around the same period, or somewhat earlier, I was using a
very lame Xmodem implementation on the HP3000. The top line speed
was 2400. I couldn't receive anything.
On investigation I found that the HP3000 (of that day) is never
full duplex. It transmits a line, emits an interrupt, which then
can cause the program to do a read, which in turn causes it to
receive. This delay was much too long to allow the ACK from the
micro to be received, so it always timed out. The cure was a
programmed delay before emitting the ACK at the micro end, which
violently slowed down the net transfer speed.
--
Chuck F (cbfal...@yahoo.com) (cbfal...@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
jmfb...@aol.com
Are those the bits you guys talk about coming back to haunt you?
I can't remember doing an "it ain't pretty" job. But I don't think
I was ever in a job that had that kind of responsibility.
There were a lot of stories but I didn't have a hand in creating
them.
Christopher McNabb
>
> I seriously doubt that anyone of the oldtimers here can truthfully claim
> that never in their career did they *ever* create an "it ain't pretty
> and my fingers are crossed but it seems to work" kludge that for at
> least a short time went into production.
>
aboard a submarine. The motor for one of the pumps that drained the bilge
(very important in a submarine) had burned out. We did not have any
spares left, and still had quite a few weeks left on patrol. We ended up
hand-rewinding the motor and then baking the varnish in the galley oven.
It lasted until the end of the run, at which point it was replaced with
a new motor.
jmfb...@aol.com
Lionel <n...@alt.net> wrote:
>Word has it that on Tue, 14 Jan 03 13:10:53 GMT, in this august forum,>Mine was a one-off prototyping job, which only had to be reliable enough
>to work at trade exhibitions, while being operated by our medical
>people. I've still got my original data aquisition & control board (PC
>AT bus prototyping card, hand wired with solder-through wire, etc.)
>sitting in a box with other random hardware. I have no idea what I've
>done with the code, or my schematics & notes.
Don't all demos require that kind of creativity :-). Demos are
guaranteed not to work at the time they're supposed to run no
matter how much testing, sanity checks and what-ifing was done.
>
>>I can't remember doing an "it ain't pretty" job. But I don't think
>>I was ever in a job that had that kind of responsibility.
>
>That's a shame. I think that everyone should do at least one project in
>their life as hairy as that - it gives people a really solid education
>about the difference between academia & industry.
I seem to have grown up with the knack of being able to learn from
watching other people make mistakes. We used to joke about it and
call it supervising. JMF would also volunteer to "supervise"
certain things like painting houses; he even would offer to bring
his own beer.
jmfb...@aol.com
In this case, crossing fingers is perferable to crossing legs.
Didn't baking it stink?
Christopher McNabb
Oh, most definately. The cooks were pretty pissed about it, but when it's
either stink or swim you do what you gotta do.
jmfb...@aol.com
"Christopher McNabb" <cmc...@n0sp4m.vt.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:18:27 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2003.01.14....@n0sp4m.vt.edu>,
>> "Christopher McNabb" <cmc...@n0sp4m.vt.edu> wrote:
>>>In my case it was when I was in the navy, stationed as an electrician
>>>aboard a submarine. The motor for one of the pumps that drained the
bilge
>>>(very important in a submarine) had burned out. We did not have any
>>>spares left, and still had quite a few weeks left on patrol. We ended
up
>>>hand-rewinding the motor and then baking the varnish in the galley oven.
>>>It lasted until the end of the run, at which point it was replaced with
>>>a new motor.
>>
>> In this case, crossing fingers is perferable to crossing legs.
>>
>> Didn't baking it stink?
>>
>
>Oh, most definately. The cooks were pretty pissed about it,
Oh, yeah. I forgot about cleaning it afterwards. Yup, I'd have
been pissed too.
> ... but when it's
>either stink or swim you do what you gotta do.
In a submarine, swim was an option. I would have guessed
stink or sink. Now, that I'm thinking about it...it was
more of a choice of stink or stink.
I'm assuming that a bilge is the toilet? I've only been
on one submarine and it was land-locked in Chicago.
Christopher McNabb
> In a submarine, swim was an option. I would have guessed
> stink or sink. Now, that I'm thinking about it...it was
> more of a choice of stink or stink.
>
> I'm assuming that a bilge is the toilet? I've only been
> on one submarine and it was land-locked in Chicago.
>
Actually, the toilet was called the 'Head'. The bilge was the space under
the decks where any water/oil/grunge leakage collected. Since most pump
seals leak by design, it was necessary to keep the bilge pumped.
The Sanitary tanks, where the toilet stuff collected, were emptied by
pressuring them to greater than sea pressure. Flushing the toilet
involved opening a large ball valve in the bottom of the commode.
It was usually a woeful day for the person who happened to 'flush'
while the sanitary tanks were pressurized.
jmfb...@aol.com
>
>
>> In a submarine, swim was an option. I would have guessed
>> stink or sink. Now, that I'm thinking about it...it was
>> more of a choice of stink or stink.
>>
>> I'm assuming that a bilge is the toilet? I've only been
>> on one submarine and it was land-locked in Chicago.
>>
>
>Actually, the toilet was called the 'Head'.
OK.
> ... The bilge was the space under
>the decks where any water/oil/grunge leakage collected. Since most pump
>seals leak by design,
They do? I didn't know that. That makes two things I've learned today.
Whee!
> ..it was necessary to keep the bilge pumped.
>
>The Sanitary tanks, where the toilet stuff collected, were emptied by
>pressuring them to greater than sea pressure. Flushing the toilet
>involved opening a large ball valve in the bottom of the commode.
>It was usually a woeful day for the person who happened to 'flush'
>while the sanitary tanks were pressurized.
How could you tell when it was safe to flush? I don't remember
seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
/BAH
Joe Morris
>How could you tell when it was safe to flush? I don't remember
>seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
I assume that the U-boat you're referring to is U-505 at the Chicago Museum
of Science and Industry? If so, and assuming that it's still configured
the way it was when I last saw it many years ago, the public corridor
through it probably doesn't go off into the obscure corners where I would
expect the head to be located. That's probably not one of the features
that the museum curators considered to be a major attraction.
Joe Morris (who has (somewhere) a paperweight made from the hull of U-505)
Christopher McNabb
> jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>
Normally, the guy who pressurized the tanks would hang a sign on the door
before he actually did the work. If he was in a bad mood that day, or if
the victim had wandered into the head while still groggy from sleep, bad
things could (and did) happen.
>>How could you tell when it was safe to flush?
>> ...I don't remember
>>seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
>
> I assume that the U-boat you're referring to is U-505 at the Chicago Museum
> of Science and Industry? If so, and assuming that it's still configured
> the way it was when I last saw it many years ago, the public corridor
> through it probably doesn't go off into the obscure corners where I would
> expect the head to be located. That's probably not one of the features
> that the museum curators considered to be a major attraction.
>
I believe that the USS Clamagore, a US Guppy III submarine on display in
Charleston SC, includes the head in its tour.
Blinky the Shark
Visitors can inspect the head(s) of the Tench class boat at Pittsburgh's
Carnegie Science Center, as well.
--
Blinky
The Demoroniser - http://snurl.com/demoroniser
jmfb...@aol.com
Joe Morris <jcmo...@mitre.org> wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>
>>How could you tell when it was safe to flush? I don't remember
>>seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
>
>I assume that the U-boat you're referring to is U-505
>at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry?
Yup.
> ... If so, and assuming that it's still configured
>the way it was when I last saw it many years ago, the public corridor
>through it probably doesn't go off into the obscure corners where I would
>expect the head to be located. That's probably not one of the features
>that the museum curators considered to be a major attraction.
Oh, so it's not my memory that at fault time. I always got
irritated with those notions. How in world are we supposed to
learn stuff if the basics aren't presented? About the only
thing that I can clearly recall from my visits to that sub, is
a very sore head. I had to ducking. And I remember wondering
if they only picked short Germans. I wouldn't have survived on
the Constitution either.
>
>Joe Morris (who has (somewhere) a paperweight made from the hull of U-505)
Oh, good grief. Do all museums chop up relics?
jmfb...@aol.com
not be intuitive. I like watching the astronauts work outside;
things fall _up_.
Joe Morris
> Joe Morris <jcmo...@mitre.org> wrote:
>>Joe Morris (who has (somewhere) a paperweight made from the hull of U-505)
>Oh, good grief. Do all museums chop up relics?
No, but when they mounted U505 at the museum they (obviously) had to cut
away large sections of the pressure hull. That's where the metal for
the paperweight came from. At least that's what they claimed; obviously
I can't vouch for its accuracy.
Joe Morris
Brian Inglis
Floor loading on a display floor would probably have been an
issue too, unless they had it on display in their lowest
sub-basement: pressure hulls are extremely thick tubes of armour
plate to stand up to deep sea pressures and depth charges.
Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
--
Brian....@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca)
fake address use address above to reply
ab...@aol.com tos...@aol.com ab...@att.com ab...@earthlink.com
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jmfb...@aol.com
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. We didn't get to go in from the
top. I was so disappointed. I'd seen so many movies about how
to get into a sub, I wanted to do it that way.
I could have spent the rest of my life in that museum. The math
section was hypnotic.
jmfb...@aol.com
Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:11:14 +0000 (UTC), Joe Morris
><jcmo...@mitre.org> wrote:
>
>>jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>> Joe Morris <jcmo...@mitre.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>Joe Morris (who has (somewhere) a paperweight made from the hull of
U-505)
>>
>>>Oh, good grief. Do all museums chop up relics?
>>
>>No, but when they mounted U505 at the museum they (obviously) had to cut
>>away large sections of the pressure hull. That's where the metal for
>>the paperweight came from. At least that's what they claimed; obviously
>>I can't vouch for its accuracy.
>
>Floor loading on a display floor would probably have been an
>issue too, unless they had it on display in their lowest
>sub-basement: pressure hulls are extremely thick tubes of armour
>plate to stand up to deep sea pressures and depth charges.
They did. IIRC It was on the same "floor" as the coal mine.
Eric Sosman
>
> I believe that the USS Clamagore, a US Guppy III submarine on display in
> Charleston SC, includes the head in its tour.
If they made a virtual-reality presentation of it,
would that be a tour in one's head?
(Sorry. Forgot my pills again ...)
William Hamblen
Industry cut in the hull.
William Hamblen
> Floor loading on a display floor would probably have been an
> issue too, unless they had it on display in their lowest
> sub-basement: pressure hulls are extremely thick tubes of armour
> plate to stand up to deep sea pressures and depth charges.
The submarine is outside, resting on a concrete cradle. They also have
the Burlington Zephyr streamlined train from the 1930s. One of the
gruesome exhibits was a couple of prepared cadavers. One was sectioned
transversely and the other sectioned longitudinally. At least they were
there 30 years ago. I don't know whether they are still there.
Pete Fenelon
I'm a museum geek - I freely admit it ;) I particularly love
science/engineering/technology museums.
The Chicago one sounds like a cracker of a museum. Anyone with
knowledge of both want to compare it to my favourite
science/technology/industry museum, the epic and marvellous Deutsches
Museum in Munich? (my German was just about good enough to follow
the display on microcode in there!) That place covers pretty much
every area of science, engineering and technology.... exhaustively
and brilliantly.
The science museum at La Villette at Paris is pretty damn good too
- loads of hands-on fun, a superb section on the sound/psychoacoustics/music
things they do at IRCAM, plenty of bits of Arianes, all kinds of fun.
Makes a nice day if you do the air and space museum at Le Bourget too.
Oh, and La Villette has an IMAX cinema ("La Geode"), and a 1950s French
hunter-killer sub (L'Atlante) - the tour of that is fascinating,
the thing's bloody claustrophobic. The Palais de la Decouverte in town
is pretty much a traditional kid-friendly science museum - not bad.
I'm afraid the poor old Science Museum in London scores pretty low, though
the 1:10 model of Hatfield Poly's DECsystem-10 machine room (complete
with little model people in flares and miniskirts) is pretty cute. The
Natural History Museum is much more fun. Much better spending your time
at the Imperial War Museum or the Cabinet War Rooms. (Or the
neighbouring V&A, which is a wonderful design and decorative arts
place).
Other favourites: the National Air & Space Museum (paradise) and National
Museum of American History (anywhere with a Don Garlits Swamp Rat
dragster gets my vote!) in DC - I've racked up a couple of days in
them ;)
The "Leonardo da Vinci" Museum of Science and Technology in Milan is
damn good too - chaotic organisation, but a certain charm, and most of
the Italian-designed stuff looks great even if it didn't work too
well ;) A fantastic sort of backyard/extension/annexe has all manner
of gorgeous Italian vehicles.
The National Railway Museum at York - only a couple of miles from my
house and full of everything you could ever conceivably want to know
about railways.
The National Museum of Film, Television and Photography at Bradford -
another great fun one - concentrates on production and social impact of
media rather than "star" things, and includes "TV Heaven" where you can
watch your choice from thousands of hours of tv.
pete
--
pe...@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB
Marco S Hyman
> Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. We didn't get to go in from the
> top. I was so disappointed. I'd seen so many movies about how
> to get into a sub, I wanted to do it that way.
Then come visit San Francisco.
http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm
// marc
Joe Morris
>Floor loading on a display floor would probably have been an
>issue too, unless they had it on display in their lowest
>sub-basement: pressure hulls are extremely thick tubes of armour
>plate to stand up to deep sea pressures and depth charges.
It is (or was; I've not been to the museum since the early '80s) mounted
outside the building, with connecting tunnels to the inside.
Joe Morris
Joe Morris
>Other favourites: the National Air & Space Museum (paradise) and National
>Museum of American History (anywhere with a Don Garlits Swamp Rat
>dragster gets my vote!) in DC - I've racked up a couple of days in
>them ;)
OT comment: for the centennial of flight celebrations, the NASM will
be lowering the Wright Flyer down to eye level (it normally resides
well above the crowd, which can either look up at the bottom, or at a
distance from the second floor). I don't know the schedule for this
(which of course is always subject to change anyway) but will be
interested because I've used the Flyer as a target when demonstrating
how a telescope works and won't be able to do so if it's at floor level.
Joe Morris
Charles Richmond
>
> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>
> Don't all demos require that kind of creativity :-). Demos are
> guaranteed not to work at the time they're supposed to run no
> matter how much testing, sanity checks and what-ifing was done.
>
twenty years ago or so...about the development of the ACE, IIRC.
He also warned that if you do a computer demo, *never* do anything
like a program to tell the day of the week by the date. Some
attendee of the demo will invariably type in today's date...and
the program will say it is Tuesday when everyone knows it's Friday.
He said one should write a program to solve some difficult
differential equation. Then whatever number comes out, you can
swear up and down that is it correct...
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond <rich...@plano.net> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Charles Richmond
> seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
>
BAH, IMHO you are giving up a lot by *not* being able to webbit
at home. The web is the first place I go to research anything...
Charles Richmond
> not be intuitive. I like watching the astronauts work outside;
> things fall _up_.
>
float around. Things have *no* weight...but they still have inertia.
(As we all know, mass is the measure of inertia.)
Charles Richmond
Charles Richmond
whose bodies were frozen and micro-sliced from top to bottom??? Are
they still available on the web somewhere???
Charlie Gibbs
writes:
You're just jealous because the voices aren't talking to _you_.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
D.J.
jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
] thing that I can clearly recall from my visits to that sub, is
] a very sore head. I had to ducking. And I remember wondering
] if they only picked short Germans. I wouldn't have survived on
] the Constitution either.
Nope. At least as far the USN is concerned. Many of us on the
destroyer I was stationed on for 4 years were over 6 feet tall. One
of the Executive Officers who served was 6 feet 6 inches tall. There
were several areas where we all had to duck low to keep from hitting
our heads. One of the main passageways lowered down to just under 6
feet in height.
I was sent aboard a 1950s Destroyer escort in 1969. I went to the
CIC, combat information center, to remove some gear to take to a
salvage yard. I had to bend over almost double or squat down and
'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
deck we stood on. Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
lose their faces...
JimP.
--
Disclaimer: Standard.
Updated: January 11, 2003 my 1E AD&D game world.
Over 300 maps and pages of info and sf poems
http://blue7green.crosswinds.net/crestar/index.html
jim
The only one I know of that you enter from the top
is the USS Cod, a WWII fleet boat. It's in Cleveland.
I didn't like the entry as much as the tunnel to the
U-505. The U505 was towed through Cleveland on its way
to Chicago. When it got there, it was pulled across a
freeway from the lake to the museum.
jim
> GerardS wrote:
>
>
>>| I have a 2400bps modem that you're welcome to have.
>>
>>Heck, I have a 1200bps modem, that you're welcome to have. _____Gerard S.
>
>
> Yeah, but the 2400bps modem would be twice't as fast, especially if he
> has to send stuff to his cousint, who perhaps lives with his sister
> across't the tracks on the other side of town.
>
> Mike
>
Consider that with a 300 baud modem, by the time the porn
downloads, he'll be old enough to look at it.
jmfb...@aol.com
Charles Richmond <rich...@ev1.net> wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>>
>> Do they demo it? Living in an extreme pressure environment may
>> not be intuitive. I like watching the astronauts work outside;
>> things fall _up_.
>>
>It seems to me that things don't fall at all...they just kind of
>float around. Things have *no* weight...but they still have inertia.
>(As we all know, mass is the measure of inertia.)
Sigh! Go watch them. From my frame of reference (the
TV screen) a lot of things fell up.
jmfb...@aol.com
Pete Fenelon <pe...@fenelon.com> wrote:
>William Hamblen <william...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> In article <64jd2v0upvk40ru0s...@4ax.com>, Brian Inglis
wrote:
>>> Floor loading on a display floor would probably have been an
>>> issue too, unless they had it on display in their lowest
>>> sub-basement: pressure hulls are extremely thick tubes of armour
>>> plate to stand up to deep sea pressures and depth charges.
>>
>> The submarine is outside, resting on a concrete cradle. They also have
>> the Burlington Zephyr streamlined train from the 1930s. One of the
>> gruesome exhibits was a couple of prepared cadavers. One was sectioned
>> transversely and the other sectioned longitudinally. At least they were
>> there 30 years ago. I don't know whether they are still there.
>
>I'm a museum geek - I freely admit it ;) I particularly love
>science/engineering/technology museums.
>
>The Chicago one sounds like a cracker of a museum. Anyone with
>knowledge of both want to compare it to my favourite
>science/technology/industry museum, the epic and marvellous Deutsches
>Museum in Munich?
Oh, darn. JMF decided to see art. I didn't know about that museum.
> .. (my German was just about good enough to follow
>the display on microcode in there!) That place covers pretty much
>every area of science, engineering and technology.... exhaustively
>and brilliantly.
>
>The science museum at La Villette at Paris is pretty damn good too
>- loads of hands-on fun, a superb section
>on the sound/psychoacoustics/music
>things they do at IRCAM, plenty of bits of Arianes, all kinds of fun.
Would I have to rent a kid in order to play?
<snip more recommendations>
Pete Fenelon
>>science/engineering/technology museums.
>>
>>The Chicago one sounds like a cracker of a museum. Anyone with
>>knowledge of both want to compare it to my favourite
>>science/technology/industry museum, the epic and marvellous Deutsches
>>Museum in Munich?
>
> Oh, darn. JMF decided to see art. I didn't know about that museum.
Ah, saw that another day. Munich is a serious museum city!
>>The science museum at La Villette at Paris is pretty damn good too
>>- loads of hands-on fun, a superb section
>>on the sound/psychoacoustics/music
>>things they do at IRCAM, plenty of bits of Arianes, all kinds of fun.
>
> Would I have to rent a kid in order to play?
>
Nope - I'm fortunate enough not to have any and I enjoyed it. ;)
jmfb...@aol.com
Charles Richmond <rich...@ev1.net> wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>>
>> How could you tell when it was safe to flush? I don't remember
>> seeing a toilet in that U-boat. Rats.
>>
>Surely there is a plan of a German Uboat on the web somewhere.
Seeing the design on the web will not enhance my memory of those
childhood trips. My adult common sense tells me that there
had to be toilets. I didn't have that when I was a child so I
didn't think about bare necessities. Besides, I was trying
not to become unconscious at the time. I had whacked my head
on the ceiling pretty hard.
>BAH, IMHO you are giving up a lot by *not* being able to webbit
>at home. The web is the first place I go to research anything...
And books are the first place I go to do research. There will
come a day when I'll be annoyed enough to get a system that will
webbit without 8 hours of recovery time.
Besides, it's real interesting not having up-to-date
hard/software.
jmfb...@aol.com
ROTFL. Then he has to print it out. That should take him
to ....
jmfb...@aol.com
D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] thing that I can clearly recall from my visits to that sub, is
>] a very sore head. I had to ducking. And I remember wondering
>] if they only picked short Germans. I wouldn't have survived on
>] the Constitution either.
>
>Nope. At least as far the USN is concerned. Many of us on the
>destroyer I was stationed on for 4 years were over 6 feet tall. One
>of the Executive Officers who served was 6 feet 6 inches tall. There
>were several areas where we all had to duck low to keep from hitting
>our heads. One of the main passageways lowered down to just under 6
>feet in height.
Sure. Barns and houses have those areas, too.
>
>I was sent aboard a 1950s Destroyer escort in 1969. I went to the
>CIC, combat information center, to remove some gear to take to a
>salvage yard. I had to bend over almost double or squat down and
>'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
>5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
>deck we stood on.
That sounds like the specs came from a copy of the Constitution's
:-)
> ..Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
>in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
>lose their faces...
Or they were short actors. I've heard rumors that some of those
he-men had to stand on a box to kiss the heroine.
So how did people work? I'd probably use a chair with wheels, but
only on calm seas. I was on a cruise once that had some rough
seas (by my standards). It was very disconcerting that my foot
never landed on the spot of the floor where I'd aimed it. I
decided to spend the next six hours in bed.
jmfb...@aol.com
Neat. (about not having to rent some in order to play...not that
you don't have any).
When JMF and I went to Epcot, one definitely needed to rent a kid
that less than knee-high in order to play with some demos. In order
for me to play, I would have had to wade through about a 1/4 acre
of those rug rats. The only adults who seemed to be allowed in
had a kid attached to his/her hand. This was definitely age
discrimination ;-). JMF thought my disgruntlement was hilarious.
jchausler
"D.J." wrote:
> I was sent aboard a 1950s Destroyer escort in 1969. I went to the
> CIC, combat information center, to remove some gear to take to a
> salvage yard. I had to bend over almost double or squat down and
> 'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
> 5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
> deck we stood on. Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
> in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
> lose their faces...
Same with airplanes. I spend a fair amount of time flying
in a museum B17 in the early 90's and you had to duck
and sometimes crawl in there too. Most vintage
W.W.II movies always showed standing headroom
in bombers cause they didn't want their actors to
stoop over.
Chris
AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE
$$
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
[U-505]
> Oh, so it's not my memory that at fault time. I always got
> irritated with those notions. How in world are we supposed to
> learn stuff if the basics aren't presented? About the only
> thing that I can clearly recall from my visits to that sub, is
> a very sore head. I had to ducking. And I remember wondering
> if they only picked short Germans. I wouldn't have survived on
> the Constitution either.
If you want to find a fighting machine that required "persons of short
stature", look at the Soviet T34 and some later tanks. It is impossible
for anyone taller than 5'4" (160cm) to get into the driver's seat.
At my place of work, we have a fine collection of tanks from many
nations; next to the Soviet models, we have a mannequin of the requisite
size to fit in, to give visitors an idea of how short the driver had to
be. Apparently, the Soviet Army used to use Mongolians and other short
races as drivers. Taller people were sent to other arms of the services.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are
untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them".
George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919
Simon Lyall
>Don't all demos require that kind of creativity :-). Demos are
>guaranteed not to work at the time they're supposed to run no
>matter how much testing, sanity checks and what-ifing was done.
This little book ( "Proudly Serving My Corporate Masters" by Adam Barr)
has a chapters (or two) devoted to various demos the author participated
in.
The chapter is online (along with the rest of the book) at:
http://books.iuniverse.com/viewbooks.asp?isbn=0595161286&page=94
and the book's website is:
http://www.proudlyserving.com/
--
Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Mail: si...@darkmere.gen.nz
"Inside me Im Screaming, Nobody pays any attention." | eMT.
"It is the duty of all men to think God out of existence" - Bubby
Joe Morris
>"D.J." wrote:
It's the same deal when you look at the lighting levels at night. If
you get your info from Hollywood the interior of an airplane cockpit
at night is lit up like a waterfront bar, while in reality you want
as little light as possible, and most of it red. There's a quite
active market in gimmicks that hold a small flashlight just *so* for
the crew to do things like read checklists. And to pull this OT
subthread back one level to warship interiors, consider the amount
of open space that is shown on both the US and Soviet submarines
in _The Hunt for Red October_. You could play a football (American
or British, your choice) in the unoccupied area.
Joe Morris
Charles Shannon Hendrix
> Sigh! Go watch them. From my frame of reference (the
> TV screen) a lot of things fell up.
This is because humans naturally move things upward as they work. We
tend to lift objects a lot, since we live in a gravity well.
I imagine that what happens is that even a trained astronaught has a
hard time fighting this tendency, and it's probably built into our range
of motion and everything. So, there is probably a tendency to release
objects with some upward force, relative to their current attitude.
D.J.
jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
] In article <iive2vocqsohn4vv7...@4ax.com>,
] D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
] >Nope. At least as far the USN is concerned. Many of us on the
] >destroyer I was stationed on for 4 years were over 6 feet tall. One
] >of the Executive Officers who served was 6 feet 6 inches tall. There
] >were several areas where we all had to duck low to keep from hitting
] >our heads. One of the main passageways lowered down to just under 6
] >feet in height.
]
] Sure. Barns and houses have those areas, too.
Hmmm. I've been in a few old houses, but I don't remember any where
I had to stoop over. Except the one in Maine that belonged to
relatives. The third floor was rather small.
] >'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
] >5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
] >deck we stood on.
]
] That sounds like the specs came from a copy of the Constitution's
] :-)
Probably was, why change soemthing that worked ? :-)
] > ..Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
] >in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
] >lose their faces...
]
] Or they were short actors. I've heard rumors that some of those
] he-men had to stand on a box to kiss the heroine.
Monty Python does a take off on that. Puts the tall woman in a
ditch, has her stand on a wood box, so she can kiss the short male
lead actor.
] So how did people work? I'd probably use a chair with wheels, but
] only on calm seas. I was on a cruise once that had some rough
] seas (by my standards). It was very disconcerting that my foot
] never landed on the spot of the floor where I'd aimed it. I
] decided to spend the next six hours in bed.
Sea legs. You get used to it so you learn to anticipate the
direction the deck is going to lean. There were days the ocean was
like glass, but not in the Spring in the Atlantic.
My second sea journey out I learned a very interesting thing. This
had been used on us our first trip, and we hadn't realized it. We
learned to walk across the deck in such a way as to nauseate the new
guys. Or stand there and sway in such a way as to confuse thier
'local horizon' and get them sea sick. Ah, the good old days...
JimP.
--
Disclaimer: Standard.
Updated: January 17, 2003 my 1E AD&D game world.
Over 320 maps and pages of info and sf poems
http://blue7green.crosswinds.net/crestar/index.html
Morten Reistad
>
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] thing that I can clearly recall from my visits to that sub, is
>] a very sore head. I had to ducking. And I remember wondering
>] if they only picked short Germans. I wouldn't have survived on
>] the Constitution either.
The moving camera scenes in "Das Boot" gets this right. You
intuitively learn where the obstacles are on boats.
>Nope. At least as far the USN is concerned. Many of us on the
>destroyer I was stationed on for 4 years were over 6 feet tall. One
>of the Executive Officers who served was 6 feet 6 inches tall. There
>were several areas where we all had to duck low to keep from hitting
>our heads. One of the main passageways lowered down to just under 6
>feet in height.
The _real_ challenge is to adapt to this running, in high seas with
night-vision lightning.
>I was sent aboard a 1950s Destroyer escort in 1969. I went to the
>CIC, combat information center, to remove some gear to take to a
>salvage yard. I had to bend over almost double or squat down and
>'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
>5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
>deck we stood on. Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
>in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
>lose their faces...
On a boat you don't count square feet, you count cubic feet.
I am sure we soon head into recipees from the U-boat fleet.
-- mrr
jmfb...@aol.com
D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] In article <iive2vocqsohn4vv7...@4ax.com>,
>] D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>] >Nope. At least as far the USN is concerned. Many of us on the
>] >destroyer I was stationed on for 4 years were over 6 feet tall. One
>] >of the Executive Officers who served was 6 feet 6 inches tall. There
>] >were several areas where we all had to duck low to keep from hitting
>] >our heads. One of the main passageways lowered down to just under 6
>] >feet in height.
>]
>] Sure. Barns and houses have those areas, too.
>
>Hmmm. I've been in a few old houses, but I don't remember any where
>I had to stoop over.
I think they might have been called cottages. I recall walking
into one but I sure can't remember where. I remember ducking
when I was in Ireland. Maybe I just dreamed it.
> ...Except the one in Maine that belonged to
>relatives. The third floor was rather small.
My childhood room had slanting ceilings to the point where I
could decide if that surface was a wall or a ceiling.
>
>] >'duck walk' to let my forehead heal, it was bleeding after less than
>] >5 minutes in there. The ceiling was only 5 feet 4 inches above the
>] >deck we stood on.
>]
>] That sounds like the specs came from a copy of the Constitution's
>] :-)
>
>Probably was, why change soemthing that worked ? :-)
I just read a history of the Navy. I, who never enjoyed
reading about history (but I'm learning now), enjoyed this
book very much.
>
>] > ..Evidently some of the movie sets depicting combat
>] >in destroyers for WW 2 were designed so the taller actors didn't
>] >lose their faces...
>]
>] Or they were short actors. I've heard rumors that some of those
>] he-men had to stand on a box to kiss the heroine.
>
>Monty Python does a take off on that. Puts the tall woman in a
>ditch, has her stand on a wood box, so she can kiss the short male
>lead actor.
>
>] So how did people work? I'd probably use a chair with wheels, but
>] only on calm seas. I was on a cruise once that had some rough
>] seas (by my standards). It was very disconcerting that my foot
>] never landed on the spot of the floor where I'd aimed it. I
>] decided to spend the next six hours in bed.
>
>Sea legs. You get used to it so you learn to anticipate the
>direction the deck is going to lean.
I thought I had pretty good sea legs. I went to bed when the
floor zig-zagged before I could put my foot down.
> There were days the ocean was
>like glass, but not in the Spring in the Atlantic.
Nor end of summer off the coast of Alaska.
>
>My second sea journey out I learned a very interesting thing. This
>had been used on us our first trip, and we hadn't realized it. We
>learned to walk across the deck in such a way as to nauseate the new
>guys. Or stand there and sway in such a way as to confuse thier
>'local horizon' and get them sea sick. Ah, the good old days...
So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
/BAH
jmfb...@aol.com
Morten Reistad <m...@reistad.priv.no> wrote:
<snip>
>I am sure we soon head into recipees from the U-boat fleet.
<GRIN> I never thought about food.
Morten Reistad
>In article <187a0b...@via.reistad.priv.no>,
> Morten Reistad <m...@reistad.priv.no> wrote:
><snip>
>
>>I am sure we soon head into recipees from the U-boat fleet.
>
><GRIN> I never thought about food.
Now, a diesel-electric submarine (think "das Boot") has impressive
diesels, big enough to supply a minor city with electricity. To use
these, or any form of fire onboard, gas stoves and cigarettes
included, requires access to surface air.
These diesels charge the batteries in a pretty short time, much less
than an hour per day of surface time is really needed. This means
there is not enough time to cook (or smoke) if the sub goes underwater
to hide. This is a normal part of every patrol.
The crew does, however, have access to enormous amounts of ~100V
DC power straight from the batteries. kA is a normal unit used
on such subamrines.
When desperate enough this power will connect to frozen food.
I have been told that two wieners in parallell coupled with a
small burger in series makes the cooking process approximately
right. I haven't sailed on any, so I cannot tell how these things
taste.
The nuclear-powered ones have solved these problems, and can
be pretty luxurious compared to the old-style Diesels.
-- mrr
Charles
who survived the whole war) where the cook was brought up on charges for
having washed his hands. He was exonerated when they finally realized
that he had been handling ground meat.
The captain at one point commented that moldy bread wasn't all that
bad if one worked up to it gradually.
The living conditions in those small boat must have been horrendous.
Charles
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Morten Reistad <m...@reistad.priv.no> wrote:
MR> When desperate enough this power will connect to frozen food.
MR> I have been told that two wieners in parallell coupled with a
MR> small burger in series makes the cooking process approximately
MR> right. I haven't sailed on any, so I cannot tell how these things
MR> taste.
Hey a self fulfilled prophesy, and another old thread drifting in.
--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors
The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see:
| http://www.sohara.org/
jmfb...@aol.com
Morten Reistad <m...@reistad.priv.no> wrote:
>According to <jmfb...@aol.com>:
>>In article <187a0b...@via.reistad.priv.no>,
>> Morten Reistad <m...@reistad.priv.no> wrote:
>><snip>
>>
>>>I am sure we soon head into recipees from the U-boat fleet.
>>
>><GRIN> I never thought about food.
>
>Now, a diesel-electric submarine (think "das Boot") has impressive
>diesels, big enough to supply a minor city with electricity. To use
>these, or any form of fire onboard, gas stoves and cigarettes
>included, requires access to surface air.
I never thought about this. I'm such a dope. Neat. :-)
>
>These diesels charge the batteries in a pretty short time, much less
>than an hour per day of surface time is really needed. This means
>there is not enough time to cook (or smoke) if the sub goes underwater
>to hide. This is a normal part of every patrol.
>
>The crew does, however, have access to enormous amounts of ~100V
>DC power straight from the batteries. kA is a normal unit used
>on such subamrines.
>
>When desperate enough this power will connect to frozen food.
>I have been told that two wieners in parallell coupled with a
>small burger in series makes the cooking process approximately
>right. I haven't sailed on any, so I cannot tell how these things
>taste.
Heh. I never thought about doing circuit design using food.
I went to college to learn that stuff and they only used pencil
and paper with little squiggles.
>
>The nuclear-powered ones have solved these problems, and can
>be pretty luxurious compared to the old-style Diesels.
Having lived my later childhood downwind from a truck stop, it had to
stink to high heaven.
jchausler
Joe Morris wrote:
> jchausler <jcha...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >Same with airplanes. I spend a fair amount of time flying
> >in a museum B17 in the early 90's and you had to duck
> >and sometimes crawl in there too. Most vintage
> >W.W.II movies always showed standing headroom
> >in bombers cause they didn't want their actors to
> >stoop over.
>
> It's the same deal when you look at the lighting levels at night. If
> you get your info from Hollywood the interior of an airplane cockpit
> at night is lit up like a waterfront bar, while in reality you want
> as little light as possible, and most of it red. There's a quite
> active market in gimmicks that hold a small flashlight just *so* for
> the crew to do things like read checklists. And to pull this OT
> subthread back one level to warship interiors, consider the amount
> of open space that is shown on both the US and Soviet submarines
> in _The Hunt for Red October_. You could play a football (American
> or British, your choice) in the unoccupied area.
True. To tie this to another thread when I get to Chicago
I frequently try to visit the Museum of Science and
Industry and when there have visited the U Boat 505
several times. Actually somewhat "roomy" until you
consider how many people were normally aboard when
in operation. IIRC it was one of the "larger" U Boat
models as well. I think I still have one of those
"flash light gimmicks" some where's which holds one
of those "mag lites", complete with red filter on the
lens. As I don't have the time or money to fly
anymore, I'm not sure where it is. Frankly as
well, I decided that flying single engine at night
was risky if you lost an engine. A few years
ago someone lost an engine locally (Piper
Archer IIRC) at night and landed on that nice
flat looking straight area......the Erie Canal,
OOPS! Blub! Blub! Just recently some
crashed and died at night after engine failure
on final. He skillfully missed the hospital and
landed in that dark area short of the runway,
unfortunately crossed with chain link fences
dividing recreational ball fields, hooked the
gear on one of the fences, flipped and burned
in the resulting fire (he was not out of fuel).
I want to see where I'm making an emergency
landing, its enough of a trick to do safely in
daylight.
D.J.
jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
] So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
Yup. Even the guys who wont fall for the 1,00 feet of shoreline or a
bucket of steam stuff, will fall for the 'Prudential Insurance Sign
on the Rock of Gibralter' bit.
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
> In article <9oug2vgf7eqbh247a...@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
> >
> >Hmmm. I've been in a few old houses, but I don't remember any where
> >I had to stoop over.
>
> I think they might have been called cottages. I recall walking
> into one but I sure can't remember where. I remember ducking
> when I was in Ireland. Maybe I just dreamed it.
My present-day house dates back to just pre-Victoria. None of the rooms
(save my attic bedroom) has a ceiling higher than 6ft, so my partner's
younger son, who lives with us and is 6'2", has to stoop most of the time.
When I was much younger, I lived in an ELizabethan[1] cottage, where
hardly any ceiling was higher than 5'9", and doorways were all sub-5'6",
so nearly everyone had to stoop.
Please remember that, with notable exceptions (such as Henry VIII), most
people were of considerably shorter stature in those days, so there was
no point in wasting space that could never be used :-) It wasn;t until
the Georgian perios (and really then only post-1760) that architects of
ordinary dwellings had the idea of beilding high ceilings to give the
illusion of space and airiness.
[1] Only *just* Elizabethan; it was built in 1558.
jmfb...@aol.com
D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
>
>Yup. Even the guys who wont fall for the 1,00 feet of shoreline or a
>bucket of steam stuff, will fall for the 'Prudential Insurance Sign
>on the Rock of Gibralter' bit.
[emoticon struggles with its curiosity, loses, and bites firmly
on the hook]
Please explain...all of them.
/BAH
CBFalconer
Hey, son, run down to stores and get me 1000 feet of shore line.
Hey, kid, whip down to the boiler room and get me a bucket of
steam.
Go ask the tool crib for a left handed 6 inch crescent wrench.
However, the wallboard installers request for a bucket of mud is
perfectly reasonable.
I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
--
Chuck F (cbfal...@yahoo.com) (cbfal...@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
Pete Fenelon
> jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <hg8m2vcurrfj4t9rs...@4ax.com>,
>> D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>> >] So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
>> >
>> >Yup. Even the guys who wont fall for the 1,00 feet of shoreline or a
>> >bucket of steam stuff, will fall for the 'Prudential Insurance Sign
>> >on the Rock of Gibralter' bit.
>>
>> [emoticon struggles with its curiosity, loses, and bites firmly
>> on the hook]
>>
>> Please explain...all of them.
>
> Hey, son, run down to stores and get me 1000 feet of shore line.
>
> Hey, kid, whip down to the boiler room and get me a bucket of
> steam.
>
> Go ask the tool crib for a left handed 6 inch crescent wrench.
>
> However, the wallboard installers request for a bucket of mud is
> perfectly reasonable.
>
> I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
>
In my sister's TA (National Guard equivalent, for those on the
Republican side of the pond) new unit recruits are often sent to
stores for a Long Weight. ;P
Richard C. Steiner
> I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
The Prudential building where my father used to work had a stone replica
of the Rock of Gibraltar on the wall, and I think "get a piece of the
rock" used to be the company slogan.
Maybe the joke is that Prudential doesn't really own the real RoG so there
ain't no sign? ;-)
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
D.J.
jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
] In article <hg8m2vcurrfj4t9rs...@4ax.com>,
1,000 feet of shoreline is talked about like its rope, not sandy
beach.
Propwash is talked about like its something to clean propellors
with, not the wind that is generated by the moving propellors.
The attempt to put steam into a bucket usually results in the steam
pushing itself out of the bucket, from the pressure.
The Prudential Insurance logo used to be of the Rock of Gibralter.
New guys used to get told to watch for the Prudential Sign on the
Rock of Gibralter as the ship passed thru the Straits of Gibralter.
Its never there when they look, its always in the shop getting
repaired, but then it never existed.
Charles Shannon Hendrix
> Hey, son, run down to stores and get me 1000 feet of shore line.
That's pretty good.
> Hey, kid, whip down to the boiler room and get me a bucket of
> steam.
I remember hearing when i was growing up: that boy's about as useful as
a bucket of steam, where "boy" could be just about anything.
> I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
The Prudential life insurance company uses the rock of Gibralter as
their logo.
Charlie Gibbs
(CBFalconer) writes:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <hg8m2vcurrfj4t9rs...@4ax.com>,
>> D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>>
>>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
>>>
>>> Yup. Even the guys who wont fall for the 1,00 feet of shoreline or a
>>> bucket of steam stuff, will fall for the 'Prudential Insurance Sign
>>> on the Rock of Gibralter' bit.
>>
>> [emoticon struggles with its curiosity, loses, and bites firmly
>> on the hook]
>>
>> Please explain...all of them.
>
>Hey, son, run down to stores and get me 1000 feet of shore line.
>
>Hey, kid, whip down to the boiler room and get me a bucket of
>steam.
>
>Go ask the tool crib for a left handed 6 inch crescent wrench.
>
>However, the wallboard installers request for a bucket of mud is
>perfectly reasonable.
>
>I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
Maybe because "Gibralter" is a misspleling? It probably has something
to do with Prudential's use of the Rock of Gibraltar in their logo.
Aviation students are sometimes sent off for a bucket of propwash.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
D.J.
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
] Maybe because "Gibralter" is a misspleling? It probably has something
] to do with Prudential's use of the Rock of Gibraltar in their logo.
Ooops. Sorry.
Morten Reistad
>In article <3E2C3262...@yahoo.com> cbfal...@yahoo.com
>(CBFalconer) writes:
>
>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hg8m2vcurrfj4t9rs...@4ax.com>,
>>> D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
>>Hey, son, run down to stores and get me 1000 feet of shore line.
>>
>>Hey, kid, whip down to the boiler room and get me a bucket of
>>steam.
>>
>>Go ask the tool crib for a left handed 6 inch crescent wrench.
>>
>>However, the wallboard installers request for a bucket of mud is
>>perfectly reasonable.
>>
>>I don't understand the Rock of Gibralter piece either.
>
>Maybe because "Gibralter" is a misspleling? It probably has something
>to do with Prudential's use of the Rock of Gibraltar in their logo.
>
>Aviation students are sometimes sent off for a bucket of propwash.
Don't forget the "lantern fluid" from the Navy. Or, in mil-speak,
Lantern Fluid, Green, Cannister, Large. Some depots have made up
some of these, so the newbies can come back and deliver.
-- mrr
jmfb...@aol.com
D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] In article <hg8m2vcurrfj4t9rs...@4ax.com>,
>] D.J. <blue7...@cheesenocrosswinds.net> wrote:
>] >
>] >jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>] >] So sailors have their newbie traditions, too. :-)
>] >
>] >Yup. Even the guys who wont fall for the 1,00 feet of shoreline or a
>] >bucket of steam stuff, will fall for the 'Prudential Insurance Sign
>] >on the Rock of Gibralter' bit.
>]
>] [emoticon struggles with its curiosity, loses, and bites firmly
>] on the hook]
>]
>] Please explain...all of them.
>
>1,000 feet of shoreline is talked about like its rope, not sandy
>beach.
OK. I thought it was Navy form of KP or something.
>
>Propwash is talked about like its something to clean propellors
>with, not the wind that is generated by the moving propellors.
Does this one work with females?
>
>The attempt to put steam into a bucket usually results in the steam
>pushing itself out of the bucket, from the pressure.
I was wondering about this. Bosses do ask for strange things.
>
>The Prudential Insurance logo used to be of the Rock of Gibralter.
>
>New guys used to get told to watch for the Prudential Sign on the
>Rock of Gibralter as the ship passed thru the Straits of Gibralter.
>Its never there when they look, its always in the shop getting
>repaired, but then it never existed.
They fall for that one? I guess I wouldn't have passed any of
your Navy tests.
Paul Lydon
I've heard about sending apprentices on similar errands such as:
Go to the stores and fetch:
"A skyhook" (well known in the Royal Air Force)
"Some sparks for the grinder" (as in metalworking)
"A skirting ladder" (for the skirting boards at the bottom of interior
walls, of course)
"A long wait" (sounds like "weight" - usually involves being told "OK
- stand over there for a while...")
"Greased Nipples" (Don't ask...)
A friend of mine worked in a camera shop and was told to get a box of
"Newton's Rings" from the store room,
--
Paul Lydon
Winster, Derbyshire, UK
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Joe Morris
>Don't forget the "lantern fluid" from the Navy. Or, in mil-speak,
>Lantern Fluid, Green, Cannister, Large. Some depots have made up
>some of these, so the newbies can come back and deliver.
Don't forget to pick up a box of prefabricated holes.
Joe Morris