Piracy is Wrong, ahemmm not I mean Piracy is RIGHT!!! Let's all steal from the man !!!
sam
taking, why not take it for free.
I'm gonna run right out, get fitted for a peg leg, hoist the Jolly Roger and
begin a life of piracy myself.
Arrgghhhhh! Mateys, lets plunder, pillage and rape !!!!
sam (I'm gonna learn to be a pirate)
ps - Warren, where exactly did you say you lived? Please post your complete
address here.
I want to stop by, steal your car, set fire to your house and have my way
with your women
"Warren Lodge" <cow...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:OhR78.3100$jV2.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Piracy is a way of getting value for money.
> i have been buying vidio games since 1982, and maybe one in 8 that i have
> bought should have been released to a games-buying public.
> i do still buy games, but i will download them as well, as games companys
> have had enough of my cash already. now maybe if they sort out there
quality
> control, or they were forced to give you back your money for POOR games
that
> would be different.
>
>
> also here in the UK sega are not releasing the 2k2 games. or other
classics
> like alien front online. if a game isnt available in your territory, then
> they are saying that they dont want your money. so download it instead.
>
> im not suggesting we all pirate all our games, but its a way of sending a
> message.
>
> ps, microsoft always made it easy for there products to be pirated on
> purpose. office 97 is the most copied software in history, and is now the
> standard for all.
>
> and the fact that ps 1 software was pirated shifted an awful lot of
> playstations.
>
> Warren
> "Jeremy & Julie Dvorak" <jdvor...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3C5D60E6...@earthlink.net...
> > Oh so let me get this straight Sam, you have never done anything that
> violates
> > copyright laws such as tape a movie off tv, download a copyrighted mp3,
> > photocopy anything out of a copyrighted book or magazine. Every video
> tape,
> > cassette tape, book, magazine, video game, computer software, and your
> > girlfriend(wife?) tits, are all origionals? Get a life man!
> >
> > sam wrote:
> >
> > > What are the maximum criminal penalties for copyright infringement?
> > >
> > > In the US, the infringer could be fined up to $250,000 and jail terms
of
> up
> > > to five years.
> > >
> > > sam
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > > ---------------------------
> > >
> > > "Greg Lawson" <Greglawson31 @hot mail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ty578.13204$0V6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> > > > Go fuck a horse sam. Who the hell was talking to you !!!! You are
such
> a
> > > > LOSER. that's why you and your fat STUPID self sit at a computer all
> day
> > > > trying to rape little boys. GET A LIFE PEDOPHILE!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
>
>
ScottX
"sam" <34...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:xCV78.4110$Gb1.1...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> Good take on this. I really see your point ,now. If it's there for the
> taking, why not take it for free.
>
> I'm gonna run right out, get fitted for a peg leg, hoist the Jolly Roger
and
> begin a life of piracy myself.
>
> Arrgghhhhh! Mateys, lets plunder, pillage and rape !!!!
>
>
> sam (I'm gonna learn to be a pirate)
http://www.atani-software.net/segabase/index-segadchistory3.html
"Moore left Japan with US$500 million in his pocket for Sega of America and
a firm command from Okawa: Make the Dreamcast a success in North America
... or else. "
"In closing, consider the following estimates, which are very conservative
and probably don't even come close to telling the truth. The average price
of a Dreamcast game during the summer of 2000 was US$42. From that Sega
earned about a 20% royalty per title, or US$8.40 per game. As of 13 August
2000 there were about 150 or so bootleg Dreamcast titles available on the
Internet. Let us assume a minimum of 1 million illegal downloads per
bootleg title; also, let us assume that 50 of those 150 games are 100% owned
by Sega. That means that Sega is losing the full price of US$42 on those 50
titles, not just the US$8.40 royalty fee. Now, let's do the math, shall we?
(100 non-Sega Dreamcast bootlegs * US$8.40 Sega royalty per title * 1
million downloads per title)
+ (50 Sega-owned Dreamcast bootlegs *US$42.00 Sega profit per title * 1
million downloads per title)
= (US$840 million lost on non-Sega titles) + (US$2.1 billion lost on
Sega's own titles)
= US$2.94 billion lost by Sega from Dreamcast piracy as of 13 August 2000.
And that's just an off-the-wall, seat-of-the-pants conservative estimate
given what was known at the time. I'm sure the folks at Sega will gladly
provide you with more accurate, more up-to-date figures whenever you want
them. "
<@--Captain Universe--@>
--
>>>>>>>>>----------------------<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
YO Bin Laden! I got a caster wit yo name on it!
>>>>>>>>>>-------------------<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
@@@@@@@@---------------------*****************
"sam" <34...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:xCV78.4110$Gb1.1...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Wurm
"ScottX" <weapo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3pj7q$1a1sv0$1...@ID-54280.news.dfncis.de...
These numbers are completely flawed for the simple reason that simply
because someone downloaded a pirated version of a game, this does NOT mean
that the game company lost money from this download. The only way you can
be sure of this is to know for a fact that if the person had not downloaded
it, then they would have gone out and purchased it, and this is rarely the
case. Look at your numbers, you are saying 50 different titles, with 1
million downloads per title..... now.... no matter what those titles were, i
seriously doubt that any dreamcast game actually sold 1 million copies (pls,
correct me if im wrong here, and please list all 50 titles that sold 1
million copies), and it is absolutely ridiculous to say "well it would have
sold 1 million copies if pirating didnt exist". Most people pirate simply
cause they can, its easy, and they have nothing better to do with their
time, and yes, they may pirate a FEW games that they would have otherwise
bought, and yes, this does hurt the business somewhat, but in no way is it
even close to the number that you just pulled out of the air or the crap
that you hear in reports.
Now, of course all you Charles Doanes out there are going to jump down my
throat calling me a pirate wannabe or some shit like that, but stop and
think about it instead of flying off the handle with knee jerk reactions.
The PS1 was prolly the most pirated console ever, did it die?, not even
close.... the DC also became a heavily pirated console, but this was already
near the end of its life span and i would point the finger at Sega for bad
marketing and the game companies for making shitty games for the system as
the cause of its demise.
If you seriously want to get rid of pirating, lower the prices on new games
(95$ CAN with tax is ridiculous for a game) and get those impulse shoppers
back in the video game stores, simple as that.... and dont say that they had
to raise the prices to get the money back from pirates as that is pure
bullshit, do you actually think that if all pirating were to stop completely
right now, that the game companies would actually lower their prices??.
And no.... im not a pirate..... sure ive copied a few games from friends
once or twice but ive never made a habit of it..... my reason?.... simply
that you dont appreciate something unless you work hard to make the money to
buy that something with.... and yes.... 95$ is too damn much for a game that
will prolly only take me 10 hours to finish
Wurm
Kevin Sullivan
wrote:
1 million downloads *per title*? How is that a conservative estimate?
I seriously doubt there have been 1 million downloads of any one DC
game let alone 15 different ones. Try dozens of thousands, if that.
And again you have to take into consideration that a lot of people are
downloading the games simply because they can. The amount of actual
lost sales is smaller than that.
Not only that but that formula is supposedly for lost "profit". A sale
of a $50 game does not equal $50 in profit yet that is what they are
claiming. $50 in revenue maybe.
Take into consideration how many people have broadband connections,
take away the number of those people who don't even play videogames,
subtract from that the number of people who have no clue how to go
about downloading, extracting and burning games or where to get them
and of course the number of those people who have CD burners.
ScottX
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3pkh8$nqk$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
> > = US$2.94 billion lost by Sega from Dreamcast piracy as of 13 August
> 2000.
> >
> > And that's just an off-the-wall, seat-of-the-pants conservative estimate
> > given what was known at the time. I'm sure the folks at Sega will
gladly
> > provide you with more accurate, more up-to-date figures whenever you
want
> > them. "
> >
> These numbers are completely flawed for the simple reason that simply
> because someone downloaded a pirated version of a game, this does NOT mean
> that the game company lost money from this download. The only way you can
> be sure of this is to know for a fact that if the person had not
downloaded
> it, then they would have gone out and purchased it, and this is rarely the
These aren't my numbers. I figure that some of the people that
downloaded games would have bought them otherwise. And with a "conservative
estimate" from an individual who cites sources so well on all of his other
points reaching 2.94 billion, I figure the pirates easily could have cost
Sega their last $500 million that Peter Moore was supposed to use to save
the DC in the US.
"Okawa had given Moore what amounted to Sega's last cash reserves. The
Dreamcast had bombed in Japan and was, in Okawa's opinion, not doing well in
every other worldwide market save one. Dreamcast had proven to be a bigger
than expected success in the United States and was, by any reasonable
estimate, poised to take the #2 spot on the market away from Nintendo by
Christmas 2001."
> Now, of course all you Charles Doanes out there are going to jump down my
> throat calling me a pirate wannabe or some shit like that, but stop and
> think about it instead of flying off the handle with knee jerk reactions.
> The PS1 was prolly the most pirated console ever, did it die?, not even
> close.... the DC also became a heavily pirated console, but this was
already
> near the end of its life span and i would point the finger at Sega for bad
> marketing and the game companies for making shitty games for the system as
> the cause of its demise.
The PS1 was backed by Sony, which seems relatively unaffected by the
piracy. The PS1 was also the incontested #1 console for 6 years straight
and the top selling console of all time, with the nearest same time
competitor having less than half the userbase. Sony also had cash reserves
for it's marketing and manufacturing from all of its other sectors. Sega
had income from only one area, and that area indesputably lost a lot of
money due to piracy, at a time when Sega basically had none, and a very
small chance to make a small profit and pull out. Pirates killed the
Dreamcast. Piracy made a console that was difficult to sell games for,
virtually impossible to sell games for and make a profit.
> If you seriously want to get rid of pirating, lower the prices on new
games
> (95$ CAN with tax is ridiculous for a game) and get those impulse shoppers
> back in the video game stores, simple as that.... and dont say that they
had
> to raise the prices to get the money back from pirates as that is pure
> bullshit, do you actually think that if all pirating were to stop
completely
> right now, that the game companies would actually lower their prices??.
Probably not, but the prices would likely not have been raised if piracy
weren't an issue.
> And no.... im not a pirate..... sure ive copied a few games from friends
> once or twice but ive never made a habit of it..... my reason?.... simply
> that you dont appreciate something unless you work hard to make the money
to
> buy that something with.... and yes.... 95$ is too damn much for a game
that
> will prolly only take me 10 hours to finish
I agree with this, and I've purchased every game I've ever wanted. I've
also used CD-Rs on rare occasions to test a game out that I'm pretty sure
I'd never like, and I haven't been wrong about one of those yet.
ScottX
"Kevin Sullivan" <ke...@beestung.net> wrote in message
news:vjk06uclrve7n9597...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:35:12 -0600, "ScottX" <weapo...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > = US$2.94 billion lost by Sega from Dreamcast piracy as of 13 August
2000.
> >
> >And that's just an off-the-wall, seat-of-the-pants conservative estimate
> >given what was known at the time. I'm sure the folks at Sega will gladly
> >provide you with more accurate, more up-to-date figures whenever you want
> >them. "
> >
>
> 1 million downloads *per title*? How is that a conservative estimate?
> I seriously doubt there have been 1 million downloads of any one DC
> game let alone 15 different ones. Try dozens of thousands, if that.
> And again you have to take into consideration that a lot of people are
> downloading the games simply because they can. The amount of actual
> lost sales is smaller than that.
Yeah, I agree, probably not.
> Not only that but that formula is supposedly for lost "profit". A sale
> of a $50 game does not equal $50 in profit yet that is what they are
> claiming. $50 in revenue maybe.
This doesn't matter. It's lost revenue.
> Take into consideration how many people have broadband connections,
> take away the number of those people who don't even play videogames,
> subtract from that the number of people who have no clue how to go
> about downloading, extracting and burning games or where to get them
> and of course the number of those people who have CD burners.
>
You have to consider that people are selling these things all over the
world for a fraction of the cost of the originals. The amount of users able
to do it might be small, but the amount willing and able to buy or obtain a
copy from someone who can is much larger.
Wurm
I dont buy this for a second, Sony is a huge company, obviously headed by
some absolute geniuses (sp?) to be doing so well, and if their playstation
section was doing badly due to pirates they wouldnt have funneled cash into
it from other departments simply to keep it afloat. The PSX (although i
personally never liked it much) was an incredibly popular system, with tons
of developers working for it and it was the sheer mass of games (some good,
some bad) that kept it going so well for so long, almost everyone can find
about 20 games that they would love to play on that system and i think that
20 games is a good reason to invest in a new console. DC on the other hand
had Sega's bad timing and bad marketing, along with crap for games. Of
course saying this is subjective to my opinion, but for myself, i could
count the number of games i wanted to play on that system on one hand, and
after playing some of those, they ended up sucking as well. The dreamcast
killed itself, simple as that, less developers than Sony and Nintendo, worse
games (at least those that showed up in north america), bad exposure, etc
etc etc. The DC was dead long before the utopia boot disk came out, and
hell, that was prolly better for the DC than it was worse cause it gave
people a way to import Jap games and give Sega more money by buying games
they actually wanted.
After all, if piracy was truly that powerful and all-encompassing, PC gaming
would have died in the days of the Commodore 64, yet its still going strong.
>
> > If you seriously want to get rid of pirating, lower the prices on new
> games
> > (95$ CAN with tax is ridiculous for a game) and get those impulse
shoppers
> > back in the video game stores, simple as that.... and dont say that they
> had
> > to raise the prices to get the money back from pirates as that is pure
> > bullshit, do you actually think that if all pirating were to stop
> completely
> > right now, that the game companies would actually lower their prices??.
>
> Probably not, but the prices would likely not have been raised if piracy
> weren't an issue.
Once again, i dont buy that. They raised the prices cause they knew people
were hungry enough for quality video games to pay those prices, then when
people started bitching about it, they point the finger at pirates... then
all the stupid people turn to bitch at the pirates and the greedy game
companies keep raking in the cash without anyone yelling at them. Once
again back to the PC games... they take about as long to develop, cost about
the same to develop, have 4 times as much boxing / manuals / etc... so they
are more expensive to package, yet they cost 30 - 50 % less.... BUT, it is
also far easier to pirate any PC game out there, if your logic is correct,
shouldnt PC games be around 300$ now?
>
> > And no.... im not a pirate..... sure ive copied a few games from friends
> > once or twice but ive never made a habit of it..... my reason?....
simply
> > that you dont appreciate something unless you work hard to make the
money
> to
> > buy that something with.... and yes.... 95$ is too damn much for a game
> that
> > will prolly only take me 10 hours to finish
>
> I agree with this, and I've purchased every game I've ever wanted.
I've
> also used CD-Rs on rare occasions to test a game out that I'm pretty sure
> I'd never like, and I haven't been wrong about one of those yet.
>
Holy crap we actually agree on something, although i have found a few games
that i liked after copying them off a friend.... so i went out and bought
them :).... so much nicer to have the pretty boxes and manuals and all that
fun stuff
George and Linda
> Pirates killed the
> Dreamcast. Piracy made a console that was difficult to sell games for,
> virtually impossible to sell games for and make a profit.
Oh, give me a break. This newsgroup has gone 'round and 'round about the
all of the factors leading up to the failure of the Dreamcast, and piracy
may have played a (very) small part, but it did not kill the Dreamcast.
Take away all of the pirates, and the DC would still have gone under. Never
mind the number of games sold, it never sold enough *consoles* to remain
viable. How can you pin that one on the pirates? Only one thing might have
kept the Dreamcast in the running: if Sony had decided that they didn't
really want to make obscene amounts of money after all and chose not to
release the PS2. Pirates didn't kill the Dreamcast, Sony and Sega did.
George K.
ScottX
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3pms0$98c$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
>
> The PSX (although i
> personally never liked it much) was an incredibly popular system, with
tons
> of developers working for it and it was the sheer mass of games (some
good,
> some bad) that kept it going so well for so long, almost everyone can find
> about 20 games that they would love to play on that system and i think
that
> 20 games is a good reason to invest in a new console. DC on the other
hand
> had Sega's bad timing and bad marketing, along with crap for games. Of
> course saying this is subjective to my opinion, but for myself, i could
> count the number of games i wanted to play on that system on one hand, and
> after playing some of those, they ended up sucking as well. The dreamcast
With one statement there, you proved that you know absolutely nothing
about the Dreamcast. The third party efforts were mostly crap, but the 1st
party efforts were second to none, on any system. Sega, it's second
parties, and some of it's third partys made up for the lack of bulk 3rd
party support that the Playstation enjoyed, and you mentioned was mostly
crap anyway. For quality per title, the DC is still the way to go.
> killed itself, simple as that, less developers than Sony and Nintendo,
worse
> games (at least those that showed up in north america), bad exposure, etc
> etc etc. The DC was dead long before the utopia boot disk came out, and
> hell, that was prolly better for the DC than it was worse cause it gave
> people a way to import Jap games and give Sega more money by buying games
> they actually wanted.
>
> After all, if piracy was truly that powerful and all-encompassing, PC
gaming
> would have died in the days of the Commodore 64, yet its still going
strong.
No PC gaming company needs to cover the cost of manufacturing every PC
on the market with game sales.
> > Probably not, but the prices would likely not have been raised if piracy
> > weren't an issue.
>
> Once again, i dont buy that. They raised the prices cause they knew
people
> were hungry enough for quality video games to pay those prices, then when
> people started bitching about it, they point the finger at pirates... then
> all the stupid people turn to bitch at the pirates and the greedy game
> companies keep raking in the cash without anyone yelling at them. Once
> again back to the PC games... they take about as long to develop, cost
about
> the same to develop, have 4 times as much boxing / manuals / etc... so
they
> are more expensive to package, yet they cost 30 - 50 % less.... BUT, it is
> also far easier to pirate any PC game out there, if your logic is correct,
> shouldnt PC games be around 300$ now?
Don't be rediculous, there's a limit to how high they can raise the price.
Consumers will only take so much.
>
> > I agree with this, and I've purchased every game I've ever wanted.
> I've
> > also used CD-Rs on rare occasions to test a game out that I'm pretty
sure
> > I'd never like, and I haven't been wrong about one of those yet.
> >
>
> Holy crap we actually agree on something, although i have found a few
games
> that i liked after copying them off a friend.... so i went out and bought
> them :).... so much nicer to have the pretty boxes and manuals and all
that
> fun stuff
No kidding. I don't know anyone who gets tons of CDRs and also plays games.
>
>
ScottX
"George and Linda" <lfis...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8ZZ78.5166$Gb1.2...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
The Dreamcast was going out the door sooner or later, for sure. Piracy
almost definitely had a hand in ensuring that it was sooner.
> George K.
>
>
>
Wurm
As i said, the games that one likes are subjective to each player, and i was
speaking from my point of view.... PSX had at least 20 times more games that
i would play (not saying i bought that many games.... not that rich yet ;) )
compared to the DC, infact, ill list the DC games that i thought were worth
buying, and i did buy
Virtua Tennis (loved it)
Skies of Arcadia (wish i hadnt bought it, boring game)
Grandia 2 (wish i handt bought it.... even more boring game)
Soul Calibur (amazing game)
Toy Story 2 (excellent platformer, finished it in 2 days, traded it in for
SoA)
NFL 2k1 (only one i still play regularly)
... hrm..... thats about it, of course there are some excellent games im
sure i missed (no i didnt forget about Shenmue, couldnt stand that game, no
idea what the hype was about) but then again im sure there are many more
excellent games that i have missed on the PSX as well. As for quality games
on the PSX, i could come up with a damn lot more than 6 games, and if you
really want ill start listing them
> > killed itself, simple as that, less developers than Sony and Nintendo,
> worse
> > games (at least those that showed up in north america), bad exposure,
etc
> > etc etc. The DC was dead long before the utopia boot disk came out, and
> > hell, that was prolly better for the DC than it was worse cause it gave
> > people a way to import Jap games and give Sega more money by buying
games
> > they actually wanted.
> >
> > After all, if piracy was truly that powerful and all-encompassing, PC
> gaming
> > would have died in the days of the Commodore 64, yet its still going
> strong.
>
> No PC gaming company needs to cover the cost of manufacturing every PC
> on the market with game sales.
>
I honestly have no idea what you said here......
> > > Probably not, but the prices would likely not have been raised if
piracy
> > > weren't an issue.
> >
> > Once again, i dont buy that. They raised the prices cause they knew
> people
> > were hungry enough for quality video games to pay those prices, then
when
> > people started bitching about it, they point the finger at pirates...
then
> > all the stupid people turn to bitch at the pirates and the greedy game
> > companies keep raking in the cash without anyone yelling at them. Once
> > again back to the PC games... they take about as long to develop, cost
> about
> > the same to develop, have 4 times as much boxing / manuals / etc... so
> they
> > are more expensive to package, yet they cost 30 - 50 % less.... BUT, it
is
> > also far easier to pirate any PC game out there, if your logic is
correct,
> > shouldnt PC games be around 300$ now?
>
> Don't be rediculous, there's a limit to how high they can raise the price.
> Consumers will only take so much.
>
Ok perhaps my number of 300$ was a little high (remember, i talk in canadian
dollars ;) )... but you get my point, there are a few PC games that come out
at 79.95$, but these are [generally] only the games that people have been
waiting for for ages, and are generally the high selling games (piracy or
not......), whereas most 'good to average' games come out at around 49.95 -
59.95, and whether or not they were huge sellers, within a few months the
prices drop by anywhere from 25% to 50%. Consoles games on the other hand
(talking PS2, GC, Xbox) ALL come out at 79.95, the good ones that are worth
the money (FFX / GTA3) along with all the crap (most other games......), but
for some reason, many games are still that high after a year, big seller or
not.... in our local stores Tekken Tag (a release game!) is still at 74.99.
Now.... are you trying to tell me that these prices are due to piracy?...
just doesnt make sense
> >
> > > I agree with this, and I've purchased every game I've ever wanted.
> > I've
> > > also used CD-Rs on rare occasions to test a game out that I'm pretty
> sure
> > > I'd never like, and I haven't been wrong about one of those yet.
> > >
> >
> > Holy crap we actually agree on something, although i have found a few
> games
> > that i liked after copying them off a friend.... so i went out and
bought
> > them :).... so much nicer to have the pretty boxes and manuals and all
> that
> > fun stuff
>
> No kidding. I don't know anyone who gets tons of CDRs and also plays
games.
>
True.... and even those people who find a game they actually play to death
will go out and buy the expansion sets / sequels without bothering to pirate
them. BTW, not to beat a dead horse too much..... but just by you saying
this, doesnt that kinda prove my point a bit that piracy, although 'Not A
Good Thing', isnt as damaging as most people would have the masses believe?
;)
>
> >
> >
>
>
ScottX
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3psna$hh3$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
>
> "ScottX" <weapo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a3prnn$1a40d9$1...@ID-54280.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3pms0$98c$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
> > >
> >
Lets compare apples to apples. Like you said about the DC, I only found
about six games for the PSX from 95' till today that I wanted to play, much
less own. But we're not talking about personal taste, we're talking about
quality. In order for your statement that most DC games were crap to be
true, most DC games would have to be crap. From 9-9-99 to today these are
the A quality DC titles, off the top of my head.
Sonic Adventure
PowerStone
Tokyo Extreme Racer
Airforce Delta
NFL 2K
NBA 2K
VF3tb
Soul Calibur
Toy Commander
Speed Devils
Crazy Taxi
DOA2
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (Best version available)
Draconus Cult of the Wyrm
Virtual On 2
Virtua Tennis
Sega GT
F355 Challenge
Skies of Arcadia
Grandia 2
Shenmue
Phantasy Star Online
Quake 3 Arena
Unreal Tournament
Outtrigger
Daytona Online
Worms World Party
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Street Figther 3
Sonic Adventure 2
Test Drive: Le Mans
Metropolis Street Racer
Jet Grind Radio
Seaman
Space Channel 5
Bangai-O
Red Dog
Crazy Taxi 2
And this is excluding games that recieved high ratings, but I didn't
personally see the quality, and/or can't remember. That's 38 memorable A
quality games in less than two years. Question #1 would be did the
Playstation come up with that many memorable high quality games, meaning not
only fun, but polished, effectively glitch free, complete non-rushed titles,
and I won't even really bring up the innovation in most of those DC titles.
Question #2 would be, what came out for the PS during the same time period?
> > > killed itself, simple as that, less developers than Sony and Nintendo,
> > worse
> > > games (at least those that showed up in north america), bad exposure,
> etc
> > > etc etc. The DC was dead long before the utopia boot disk came out,
and
> > > hell, that was prolly better for the DC than it was worse cause it
gave
> > > people a way to import Jap games and give Sega more money by buying
> games
> > > they actually wanted.
> > >
> > > After all, if piracy was truly that powerful and all-encompassing, PC
> > gaming
> > > would have died in the days of the Commodore 64, yet its still going
> > strong.
> >
> > No PC gaming company needs to cover the cost of manufacturing every
PC
> > on the market with game sales.
> >
>
> I honestly have no idea what you said here......
PCs are puchased by users from a variety of companys, none of which are
also companies that make games and sell their PCs at cost, in anticipation
of making the money back in software sales. Every Dreamcast game pirated
was a game that very well could have sold, and Sega only makes money on
every game sold.
> >
> > Don't be rediculous, there's a limit to how high they can raise the
price.
> > Consumers will only take so much.
> >
>
> Ok perhaps my number of 300$ was a little high (remember, i talk in
canadian
> dollars ;) )... but you get my point, there are a few PC games that come
out
> at 79.95$, but these are [generally] only the games that people have been
> waiting for for ages, and are generally the high selling games (piracy or
> not......), whereas most 'good to average' games come out at around
49.95 -
> 59.95, and whether or not they were huge sellers, within a few months the
> prices drop by anywhere from 25% to 50%. Consoles games on the other hand
> (talking PS2, GC, Xbox) ALL come out at 79.95, the good ones that are
worth
> the money (FFX / GTA3) along with all the crap (most other games......),
but
> for some reason, many games are still that high after a year, big seller
or
> not.... in our local stores Tekken Tag (a release game!) is still at
74.99.
> Now.... are you trying to tell me that these prices are due to piracy?...
> just doesnt make sense
No, not entirely. Piracy was partly responsible for these prices yes.
In the US, only Cartridge games reached $80 price tags. All CD games have
always been less than $55.
>
> > No kidding. I don't know anyone who gets tons of CDRs and also plays
> games.
> >
>
> True.... and even those people who find a game they actually play to death
> will go out and buy the expansion sets / sequels without bothering to
pirate
> them. BTW, not to beat a dead horse too much..... but just by you saying
> this, doesnt that kinda prove my point a bit that piracy, although 'Not A
> Good Thing', isnt as damaging as most people would have the masses
believe?
> ;)
No, because I am not an example of the rule, and neither are the people
I know that pirate. There are entire organizations that make their living
off of piracy, and they do so by selling pirated copies of games at discount
to users. The same users that otherwise would have had to have bought that
game from the publisher. Then there are even more people who have access to
simply download these games for themselves and burn copies, and they also
tend to burn copies for their friends, and maybe sell some on the side.
These numbers do add up. Probably not to hundreds of millions of dollars in
a year, but it is a significant number. If it wasn't, Sega wouldn't have
spent so much time and money closing pirate groups and sites down.
Richard Hutnik
> taking, why not take it for free.
>
> I'm gonna run right out, get fitted for a peg leg, hoist the Jolly Roger and
> begin a life of piracy myself.
>
> Arrgghhhhh! Mateys, lets plunder, pillage and rape !!!!
>
>
> sam (I'm gonna learn to be a pirate)
Arhar matey, particularly if you have a shipmate that looks like this lass:
http://www.ea.com/eagames/games/playstation/pirates/home.jsp
- Richard Hutnik (WOO HOO!)
Ryan Ogden
First of all, you people with all your numbers like your a freakin
analysis on CNN or something.
Unless you did some crazy research (which im sure you didnt) then don't go
pullin half ass numbers outta
your ass and try to make a point by doing so. Now as for pirating:
People that pirate and sell games are losers for the simple fact that they
can't get a real job and make money off
of that. However, people that keep it to themselves I have a significantly
less harsh view on them. Anyway, If I was
Sega, I would know that people are gonna pirate some rather a lot of my
games. Yes that means lost money that
our rich asses could have made. Gee, anyway, who cares, lets try to put
some kind of lame ass protection on our
games that probably cost us 20 g's to invest in and have it cracked a day
later. I would A: hire some of the hackers
to come in and code our shit so that it can't be copied or B: develope a non
CD based game system. How many
N64 games have you copied??? (Not talkin emulators on pcs here either) I am
guessing your answer is none right?
Mine is. Now your saying... Well yeah but the games only had so much
capicity. Well my guess is that with 160GB hard
drives coming out and the technology that japan and the U.S. has today, they
can come up with a much better Non-CD
Based system than a cartridge that can't be copied. WHat a freakin good
solution!!! Then we can all stop crying about
whether pirating is good or not. To put it simpler for those who can't
understand that well:
If you had lost the key to your front door, and someone found it and then
copied it and gave it to some other people, and
those people easily entered your home while you weren't home and stole tons
of your valuable shit, Wouldn't you possibly
consider changing your locks completely?? That way they can't get in and you
get to keep your valuables. So maybe
we can all stop bickering, realize that yeah pirating is wrong, it would
suck if someone stole your shit that you spent time
developing, but shit happens and pirating happens. So instead of reporting
people to worthless anti-pirating groups who
just take your complaint, hand it to the FBI who then adds it to the bottom
of a pile topped by thousands of documents
concering real problems that are posed to our country i.e. Osama bin Laden,
maybe you can send enough emails to your
favorite Video game company/system manufacturer and convince them that the
problems lies within their own doors and
they should develope a new anti-pirating system, and then you will have a
pirate free system. And a thought for all you
Anti-pirating Johova (pirating) witnesses, how many MP3's do you have on
your computer....none you say, well then i say
im freakin George W.
Just my Two cents.......REO
"ScottX" <weapo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3pj7q$1a1sv0$1...@ID-54280.news.dfncis.de...
Charles Doane
>
> WAH WAH WAH (boo hoo boo hoo, CRY CRY CRY)...Now my take.
> First of all, you people with all your numbers like your a freakin
> analysis on CNN or something.
It doesn't exactly take an analysis to see that using downloadable ROMS is
harmful to the industry.
<snip>
> Gee, anyway, who cares, lets try to put some kind of lame ass protection
> on our games that probably cost us 20 g's to invest in and have it cracked
> a day later. I would A: hire some of the hackers to come in and code our
> shit so that it can't be copied or B: develope a non CD based game system.
THAT IS STUPID. You're gonna hire HACKERS to design your security system?
These are the guys who BREAK them! That's like hiring burglars to install
your alarm system, for pity's sake? What sort of maniac would trust them?
> How many N64 games have you copied??? (Not talkin emulators on pcs here either)
> I am guessing your answer is none right?
Some people did. Nintendo won an $8000000 judgement against BUNG for
their selling just such a copier.
> Mine is. Now your saying... Well yeah but the games only had so much
> capicity. Well my guess is that with 160GB hard
> drives coming out and the technology that japan and the U.S. has today, they
> can come up with a much better Non-CD
> Based system than a cartridge that can't be copied. WHat a freakin good
> solution!!!
That's been done. Nintendo's Matsushita Optical format for the Gamecube.
I wonder how long that'll last?
<snip>
> And a thought for all you
> Anti-pirating Johova (pirating) witnesses, how many MP3's do you have on
> your computer....none you say, well then i say
> im freakin George W.
>
> Just my Two cents.......REO
It'll be a cold day in hell before I have an MP3 piece of crap on my
machine. I respect my ears too much to subject them to the painfully
hollow sound of compressed audio. You can't possibly have a decently
functional set of ears and like the way a crap MP3 sounds.
--
ense petite placidum sub libertate quietem;
With the sword she seeks calm repose under
liberty: By the sword we seek peace, but
peace only under liberty.
(motto of Massachusetts)
Warren Lodge
i didnt onw a single pirate copy til saga pulled the plug. so it was dying
already.
and as for theft, did any of you buy these games on these systems?
zoids - zx spectrum
vulcan - atari st
jonh barnes footbal - amiga
akira - cd32
golf/tennis - phillips cdi
hulk - psx
pro surfer - dreamcast
and the list goes on. they stared stealing first. if i bought a car from the
ford garage only to find the engine wasnt finished and it had a wheel
missing i would expect my money back. not so the games industry. so i find
it hard to feel " oh so sorry" for them.
i do buy legit software. and i do buy software that i have downloaded and
enjoyed.
the point is its not black and white.
just my hummble oppinion.
Warren
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C60ED41...@mindspring.com...
ScottX
> going back a few postes, some one said that piracy killed the dream cast.
> i didnt onw a single pirate copy til saga pulled the plug. so it was dying
> already.
You've gotta be kidding me. Whether or not you did doesn't effect the
fact that millions of other people bought or downloaded pirated copies
instead of buying the original.
> and as for theft, did any of you buy these games on these systems?
> zoids - zx spectrum
> vulcan - atari st
> jonh barnes footbal - amiga
> akira - cd32
> golf/tennis - phillips cdi
> hulk - psx
> pro surfer - dreamcast
> and the list goes on. they stared stealing first. if i bought a car from
the
> ford garage only to find the engine wasnt finished and it had a wheel
> missing i would expect my money back. not so the games industry. so i find
> it hard to feel " oh so sorry" for them.
> i do buy legit software. and i do buy software that i have downloaded and
> enjoyed.
> the point is its not black and white.
Few things are. Piracy does cost game companies money though. If a game
sucks, why do you even want a pirated copy of it?
Wurm
> PowerStone
Cute for about 10 minutes... glad i rented it
> Tokyo Extreme Racer
Cant stand racing games so im biased against this one
> Airforce Delta
never played it
> NFL 2K
good game
> NBA 2K
Cant stand b-ball games, so im biased against this one, hate the entire
sport actually.....
> VF3tb
Never a big VF fan
> Soul Calibur
Excellent game!
> Toy Commander
Wierd, kooky and somewhat origional, not my cup of tea though
> Speed Devils
never played it
> Crazy Taxi
once again, fun for about 10 minutes
> DOA2
worst fighter ive ever played (not specifically the DC version, just the
whole DOA mechanics)
> Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (Best version available)
> Draconus Cult of the Wyrm
> Virtual On 2
cool in the arcades, not at home
> Virtua Tennis
Excellent game
> Sega GT
racing game.... see above
> F355 Challenge
ditto
> Skies of Arcadia
dull dull dull dull dull
> Grandia 2
even duller, mixed with one of the worse translations ive ever seen
> Shenmue
wierd, but didnt like it
> Phantasy Star Online
cool idea, ill stick to Everquest
> Quake 3 Arena
terrible game on a console, only playable on a PC
> Unreal Tournament
ditto
> Outtrigger
never heard of it
> Daytona Online
racing game... see above
> Worms World Party
terrible game on console, only playable on PC
> Street Fighter Alpha 3
always couldnt understand what people liked about Street Fighter
> Street Figther 3
ditto
> Sonic Adventure 2
better than the first, still got bored after the Knucles stage
> Test Drive: Le Mans
racing game, see above
> Metropolis Street Racer
ditto
> Jet Grind Radio
ill stick with the tony hawk games, if someone could explain what was
good about this game.... i still wouldnt believe them
> Seaman
excellent idea, but too tamagotchi for me, dont like being forced to
play a game ;)
> Space Channel 5
not my cup of tea, something i would buy for a 3 year old tho....
dancing games.... ugh
> Bangai-O
never heard of it
> Red Dog
ditto
> Crazy Taxi 2
just a touch less dull than the first
>
> And this is excluding games that recieved high ratings, but I didn't
> personally see the quality, and/or can't remember. That's 38 memorable A
> quality games in less than two years. Question #1 would be did the
> Playstation come up with that many memorable high quality games, meaning
not
> only fun, but polished, effectively glitch free, complete non-rushed
titles,
> and I won't even really bring up the innovation in most of those DC
titles.
> Question #2 would be, what came out for the PS during the same time
period?
>
see.... considering a game to be a quality game is quite subjective ;), ill
give you one thing tho, the DC games had alot more chances taken with wierd
shit like Shenmue and Seaman and this may have helped or hindered the
company (prolly would still be around if it had more mainstream stuff.... ).
As for quality (IMO) games on the PSX, i can throw out a bunch of names but
im not going to pretend to know what date they were released ;)
any and all Final Fantasy games
Chrono Cross
Vagrant Story
any and all Spyro the Dragon games
Bust a Move
TecmoStackers
Tekken 2
Tekken 3
Dragon Warrior 7
Arc the Lad
Castevania SoTN
Legend of Mana
Lunar series
Persona series
Parasite Eve series
SaGa Frontier
Valkyrie Profile
Xenogears
Ape Escape
Syphon Filter
etc etc etc
how about we just say that the two systems appealed to different audiences,
and that the PSX audience was just bigger and more ready to shell out money
for their games than the DC audience.... and once again, i still contend
that pirating had nothing to do with the demise of the DC as the PSX was
being pirated for far longer of its lifespan than the DC was and it was
still a rousing success as a console, and i am positive that even if Utopia
never released their boot disk (which was pretty much the beginning of the
DC pirating days) the DC would still have died just as quickly
Ok, ill cede that point, but i will still never agree that each downloaded
copy was equivalent to stealing x$ from sega, id guess it at perhaps 1%
(i.e., in each 100 downloads, there was 1 person who would have actually
bought the game)....
wow, 80$ US for a game?.... thats like 130$ CAN.... thats nuts!
I remember when Sega was running around like a chicken with its head cut off
trying to shutdown pirate sites.... if they had spent more time making some
more quality games that actually sold (dont start referring to your list
again.... if they were all of such high quality, they would have been all
high sellers, and Sega wouldnt be where it is now) and spent some of that
wasted money on hiring the best game designers out there to fill their
library with stuff that the average gamer actually wanted to play, the DC
would still be around today.
One could also say that its sad that companies like Sega die while producing
some very revolutionary titles (i.e. Shenmue), where others like the PS
deparment of Sony flourish by producing simpler but more consumer-friendly
games, but thats the way the world is. Its the same reason that mindless
groups like all the boy bands and brittney spears wanabes make so much damn
money, but true musical geniuses like Roger Waters still struggle to get
their music on the radio or on MTV to reach the common person. If Sega had
realized that they could still do cool experimental stuff while releasing
more mainstream games which would have kept them afloat, im sure that they
would still be around today and the DC would have been a decent contender to
the PS2.... cause lets face it, graphics wise, the PS2 is hardly more
powerful than the DC and any game that exists on the PS2 could have been
done on the DC, but it wasnt.
gimmegames
> ps - Warren, where exactly did you say you lived? Please post your complete
> address here.
> I want to stop by, steal your car, set fire to your house and have my way
> with your women
>
And you holier than thou piece of dung are far worse
threats against personal property and family
who's treading the line of illegality here.............
________________end of line___________________
SSJ4 Eric
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:<a3psna$hh3$1...@dns3.cae.ca>...
Wurm
"SSJ4 Eric" <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e890b48.02020...@posting.google.com...
sam
"gimmegames" <gimme...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd7108d5.02020...@posting.google.com...
ScottX
> are
> > also companies that make games and sell their PCs at cost, in
anticipation
> > of making the money back in software sales. Every Dreamcast game
pirated
> > was a game that very well could have sold, and Sega only makes money on
> > every game sold.
>
> Ok, ill cede that point, but i will still never agree that each downloaded
> copy was equivalent to stealing x$ from sega, id guess it at perhaps 1%
> (i.e., in each 100 downloads, there was 1 person who would have actually
> bought the game)....
Interesting you should say that. For my own interest I calculated just that
today, sources for the cost per game are in my original post:
1% of 1 million is 10,000 games.
100 out of 150 non-Sega games is 66.67%
50 out of 150 sega owned games is 33.34%
6667 downloads at 8.40 per title = $56002.8 per day
3334 downloads at 42.00 per title = $140028 per day
Non-Sega($56002.8) games + Sega ($140028) games added
together is $196,030.80 per day. At 30 days is
$5,880,924. At 365 days is $71,551,242.
This is assuming that 1% of the 1 million hits per day
on pirate sites all downloaded a game, and all would
have bought the game otherwise. This only includes
the 1 million hits per day pirate sites boasted, and
does not include usenet downloads, bootleg sales, or
any other source (or multiple pirate sites getting 1 million hits per day).
A more realistic estimate in my opinion is that 10% of
those hits both downloaded and would have otherwise
bought those games. This would make the numbers:
$1,960,308 per day, $58,809,240 per month, and
$715,512,420 per year.
I'll reply to the rest of your post in another post.
Wurm
Oh come on!, now your starting to sound ludicrous. You (did) sound like an
intelligent person, but no person in their right mind would attempt to claim
that 1 million DC ISO's are downloaded per day (or even rented and copied,
burned from a friend, bought from one of those ISO selling assholes, found
in a dumpster, etc etc etc), every day, all year long, and for each year
that this game is in existance. Absolutely absurd.
ScottX
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3rc0u$ot9$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
>
> > Lets compare apples to apples. Like you said about the DC, I only
> found
> > about six games for the PSX from 95' till today that I wanted to play,
> much
> > less own. But we're not talking about personal taste, we're talking
about
> > quality. In order for your statement that most DC games were crap to be
> > true, most DC games would have to be crap. From 9-9-99 to today these
are
> > the A quality DC titles, off the top of my head.
> >
(snip DC game list)
> see.... considering a game to be a quality game is quite subjective ;),
ill
> give you one thing tho, the DC games had alot more chances taken with
wierd
> shit like Shenmue and Seaman and this may have helped or hindered the
> company (prolly would still be around if it had more mainstream
stuff.... ).
> As for quality (IMO) games on the PSX, i can throw out a bunch of names
but
> im not going to pretend to know what date they were released ;)
Game quality is not subjective if the person looking at the game is
reasonable. I can look for and find a list of highly polished well made PSX
games, almost none of which I liked, but I could then go on to name their
strengths as games anyway, and then the weakness that caused me not to like
them personally. The games I named for the DC are incontestably good games,
that you just didn't like for one reason or another.
> any and all Final Fantasy games
> Chrono Cross
> Vagrant Story
> any and all Spyro the Dragon games
> Bust a Move
> TecmoStackers
> Tekken 2
> Tekken 3
> Dragon Warrior 7
> Arc the Lad
> Castevania SoTN
> Legend of Mana
> Lunar series
> Persona series
> Parasite Eve series
> SaGa Frontier
> Valkyrie Profile
> Xenogears
> Ape Escape
> Syphon Filter
>
> etc etc etc
Not a single one of these games is a bad game by any stretch of the
imagination. Only SOTN ever caught my interest and found its way into my
library of games.
> how about we just say that the two systems appealed to different
audiences,
Oh, most definitely.
> and that the PSX audience was just bigger and more ready to shell out
money
This too. Or rather, much of the DC audience were PS users who didn't end
up liking any of the games.
> for their games than the DC audience.... and once again, i still contend
> that pirating had nothing to do with the demise of the DC as the PSX was
> being pirated for far longer of its lifespan than the DC was and it was
> still a rousing success as a console, and i am positive that even if
Utopia
> never released their boot disk (which was pretty much the beginning of the
> DC pirating days) the DC would still have died just as quickly
Sony was making money with the PS the whole time, so the loss they took
due to piracy was small in comparison, and didn't effect them visibly. Sega
was not making money on the DC or game sales, piracy of DC games cost them
revenue they could have had, and badly needed.
> > PCs are puchased by users from a variety of companys, none of which
> are
> > also companies that make games and sell their PCs at cost, in
anticipation
> > of making the money back in software sales. Every Dreamcast game
pirated
> > was a game that very well could have sold, and Sega only makes money on
> > every game sold.
>
> Ok, ill cede that point, but i will still never agree that each downloaded
> copy was equivalent to stealing x$ from sega, id guess it at perhaps 1%
> (i.e., in each 100 downloads, there was 1 person who would have actually
> bought the game)....
Which is still a very significant number by any calculation.
> >
> > No, not entirely. Piracy was partly responsible for these prices
yes.
> > In the US, only Cartridge games reached $80 price tags. All CD games
have
> > always been less than $55.
>
> wow, 80$ US for a game?.... thats like 130$ CAN.... thats nuts!
Yeah, they probably didn't charge you that much for them.
Sales does not, has not, and will not ever equal quality. Sales only
makes money, it does not imply anything else about the game. If Sega made
more mass market appealing games than original titles,
> One could also say that its sad that companies like Sega die while
producing
> some very revolutionary titles (i.e. Shenmue), where others like the PS
> deparment of Sony flourish by producing simpler but more consumer-friendly
> games, but thats the way the world is. Its the same reason that mindless
> groups like all the boy bands and brittney spears wanabes make so much
damn
> money, but true musical geniuses like Roger Waters still struggle to get
> their music on the radio or on MTV to reach the common person. If Sega
had
> realized that they could still do cool experimental stuff while releasing
> more mainstream games which would have kept them afloat, im sure that they
> would still be around today and the DC would have been a decent contender
to
> the PS2.... cause lets face it, graphics wise, the PS2 is hardly more
> powerful than the DC and any game that exists on the PS2 could have been
> done on the DC, but it wasnt.
Exactly. I agree completely. Couldn't have put it better my self.
ScottX
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3s5sk$fgh$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
I'm ludicrous? You didn't even read it. It clearly says at the beginning
and later on that the pirate sites were boasting 1 million hits a day, and I
took 1% of that, or 10,000 as the number of actual downloads in a day.
These numbers are based on 10,000 downloads a day, something I think was
easily reached.
My name = Harvey
whatever it is.
With the Dreamcast, it ensured the popularity of homebrew development which
has blossomed on the Dreamcast, more than any other new/recent console.
Piracy will always be there, if there is a way, if not, it wouldn't exist
or be possible.
If they make CD writers, and DVD writers, piracy is possible.
Zaxxon
In article <a3prp6$1a9oru$1...@ID-54280.news.dfncis.de>, weapo...@yahoo.com
says...
ScottX
"My name = Harvey" <kiwilove_n...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:o9i88.619$PS6....@news02.tsnz.net...
> There is the old argument that piracy or the tools thereof helps the
system,
> whatever it is.
> With the Dreamcast, it ensured the popularity of homebrew development
which
> has blossomed on the Dreamcast, more than any other new/recent console.
>
> Piracy will always be there, if there is a way, if not, it wouldn't exist
> or be possible.
> If they make CD writers, and DVD writers, piracy is possible.
>
> Zaxxon
Yup. And yay for homebrew!
Wurm
Why thank you =)
Well, ive enjoyed this lengthy conversation, but i think that we have beat
this horse to death and all i can say in closing is that i hope that more
people stop pirating and actually enjoy the games they have, after all, no
one has time to play (and appreciate and finish) 400 games per year. Ill
still stand by my point that although piracy may have hurt the DC, in no way
was it responsible for its demise, Sega simply didnt put out enough games
that the average gaming joe was ready to put down money for, and pirating or
not, the PS2 (and even the PSX) would have driven them out of business and
it was only a matter of time. At least Sega still isnt completely dead,
they can go on to make games for GC PS2 and XBOX, but i seriously hope that
they dont repeat the same mistake they did with the dreamcast. Bring out
those cool revolutionary titles like Shenmue and Seaman, but for the
companies sake, also bring out 'simpler' games like Mario's (which ive
always loved), the origional Sonic's (couldnt stand the 3D ones), and heck,
how about making a real Phantasy Star, Alex Kidd, or Wonderboy (i think
thats what it was called.... been so long) game.
long live Sega!...... just try not to blame the pirates for everything ;)
Wurm
terrell gibbs
> These numbers are completely flawed for the simple reason that simply
> because someone downloaded a pirated version of a game, this does NOT mean
> that the game company lost money from this download. The only way you can
> be sure of this is to know for a fact that if the person had not downloaded
> it, then they would have gone out and purchased it, and this is rarely the
> case. Look at your numbers, you are saying 50 different titles, with 1
> million downloads per title..... now.... no matter what those titles were, i
> seriously doubt that any dreamcast game actually sold 1 million copies (pls,
> correct me if im wrong here, and please list all 50 titles that sold 1
> million copies), and it is absolutely ridiculous to say "well it would have
> sold 1 million copies if pirating didnt exist". Most people pirate simply
> cause they can, its easy, and they have nothing better to do with their
> time, and yes, they may pirate a FEW games that they would have otherwise
> bought, and yes, this does hurt the business somewhat, but in no way is it
> even close to the number that you just pulled out of the air or the crap
> that you hear in reports.
It's certainly true that not every pirated copy equals a lost sale. On
the other hand, most of the pirates I've know do not pirate a few
games, they pirate everything they can get their hands on--even games
that they might otherwise rent, rather than buy. Many spend quite a bit
of money on blanks, system mods, etc. It's a fair bet that if they were
not pirating, they would be spending at least as much money on
legitimate games, either renting or buying.
>
> Now, of course all you Charles Doanes out there are going to jump down my
> throat calling me a pirate wannabe or some shit like that, but stop and
> think about it instead of flying off the handle with knee jerk reactions.
> The PS1 was prolly the most pirated console ever, did it die?, not even
> close....
This is an illogical argument. More systems die than survive. So the
fact that it is possible for a wildly popular system to survive losses
to piracy does not prove that those losses are small. And of course,
even pirates bought PS1's to play their pirated games on. The effect of
piracy falls most heavily on small game companies, especially the ones
who take risks by developing games for which the size of the market is
unclear--in other words, original games rather than licensed titles and
sequels, which typically can count on enough legitimate sales to
outweighg piracy losses.
> the DC also became a heavily pirated console, but this was already
> near the end of its life span and i would point the finger at Sega for bad
> marketing and the game companies for making shitty games for the system as
> the cause of its demise.
>
> If you seriously want to get rid of pirating, lower the prices on new games
> (95$ CAN with tax is ridiculous for a game) and get those impulse shoppers
> back in the video game stores, simple as that.... and dont say that they had
> to raise the prices to get the money back from pirates as that is pure
> bullshit, do you actually think that if all pirating were to stop completely
> right now, that the game companies would actually lower their prices??.
No, game companies try to charge the profit-maximizing price--which
depends upon how much honest consumers value the game. And they do
enough market research that they probably hit that price point pretty
accurately. So they can't make up for piracy losses by raising prices,
because the losses in legitimate sales would outweight the gain in per
copy income. Similarly, since they are already charging the
profit-maximizing price, additional sales from the price drop will not
make up for the lost per-copy income. Of course, there is no way that
companies can compete on a price basis with pirates, who have no
development or marketing costs. Games cost what they do because that is
how much they are *worth* to honest consumers. Which is hardly
surprising, since on a per-hour of play basis, games are quite
competitive with a variety of other popular entertainments.
>
> And no.... im not a pirate..... sure ive copied a few games from friends
> once or twice but ive never made a habit of it..... my reason?.... simply
> that you dont appreciate something unless you work hard to make the money to
> buy that something with.... and yes.... 95$ is too damn much for a game that
> will prolly only take me 10 hours to finish
>
> Wurm
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ps - Warren, where exactly did you say you lived? Please post your
> > complete
> > > address here.
> > > I want to stop by, steal your car, set fire to your house and have my
> way
> > > with your women
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Warren Lodge" <cow...@mail.com> wrote in message
Raymond McKeithen II
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3pkh8$nqk$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
<usual tired pro-piracy arguments we've heard 1000s of times snipped>
> And no.... im not a pirate..... sure ive copied a few games from friends
> once or twice but ive never made a habit of it.....
Then you _are_ a pirate.
Whether you've copied a "few" games or hundreds doesn't change the fact.
Ryan Ogden
>
> >So instead of reporting
> >people to worthless anti-pirating groups who
> >just take your complaint, hand it to the FBI
>
>
> I get their ISP accounts and sites taken down.
> Within 48 hours, usually.
>
> Now your brain is full.
> --
> "Good job. You made me even less moderate than I was when I woke
> up this morning--AGAIN" - rotflmao7d1 in alt.security.terrorism
Who are you, Bill Gates? Sounds like you got a power trip problem.
Hector
>> (snip)
>>
> Oh come on!, now your starting to sound ludicrous. You (did) sound like an
> intelligent person, but no person in their right mind would attempt to claim
> that 1 million DC ISO's are downloaded per day (or even rented and copied,
> burned from a friend, bought from one of those ISO selling assholes, found
> in a dumpster, etc etc etc), every day, all year long, and for each year
> that this game is in existance. Absolutely absurd.
I must admit Wurm's figures do sound absurd. But as a former Microsoft
employee (I left for a higher paying job btw) in the Product Support
division I feel compel to add something. Microsoft's very conservative
estimate is that it claims it would be at least 4 times bigger than
what Microsoft is now was it not for piracy or casual copying/breach
of license agreement. Some of the
higher ups even claim 10x.
I know Microsoft is not Sega. Duh. To say that piracy has little
effect on a company's profit is saying so out of ignorance. For a
company that is much weaker than Microsoft and Sony, the effect can be
very devastating. We don't have the exact figure, but are fairly
certain its impact is very negative.
Wurm
"Hector" <dekk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9d96c5a6.02020...@posting.google.com...
If it wasnt so easy to copy Microsoft's software, i would argue that a large
percentage of people who use it as a home operating system, wouldnt due to
the high prices and low quality of each release. But now you say MS makes
most of their money from corporations, which is true, but there are few, if
any, large corporations who pirate MS software as MS looks into those quite
carefully. Pirating MS software has done nothing to the company, its just
another scapegoat
Wurm
"Raymond McKeithen II" <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote in message
news:JEk88.359$TS.4...@newshog.newsread.com...
oh grow up
Wurm
"terrell gibbs" <tgi...@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:060220022003519037%tgi...@bu.edu...
True
Many spend quite a bit
> of money on blanks, system mods, etc. It's a fair bet that if they were
> not pirating, they would be spending at least as much money on
> legitimate games, either renting or buying.
>
Not true, they spend their money on the hardware needed to actually get the
games (blanks, burners, high speed connections, etc) simply because getting
the games is a power trip for them and its all about getting the games and
owning a copy, not playing them... its true that if they werent pirating at
all they would probably buy more games, but i wouldnt say that it would be
many more games. Pirating is a psychological thing for these people, and if
they cant get their kicks downloading each and every thing in sight, they
would get their kicks another way such as downloading movies, tv shows,
mp3's or other stupid shit.....
>
> >
> > Now, of course all you Charles Doanes out there are going to jump down
my
> > throat calling me a pirate wannabe or some shit like that, but stop and
> > think about it instead of flying off the handle with knee jerk
reactions.
> > The PS1 was prolly the most pirated console ever, did it die?, not even
> > close....
>
> This is an illogical argument. More systems die than survive. So the
> fact that it is possible for a wildly popular system to survive losses
> to piracy does not prove that those losses are small. And of course,
> even pirates bought PS1's to play their pirated games on. The effect of
> piracy falls most heavily on small game companies, especially the ones
> who take risks by developing games for which the size of the market is
> unclear--in other words, original games rather than licensed titles and
> sequels, which typically can count on enough legitimate sales to
> outweighg piracy losses.
>
Yes this is a (sad) possibility and im sure that each copy (truly) pirated
(and by truly i mean someone who if they hadnt downloaded it, they would
have bought it) surely hurts those companies the most, but heres a
counterpoint. Lets look at ID software, one of the most successful software
houses ever from their roots with Commander Keen, all the way up to Quake3.
All of their titles (except for Q3) had one thing in common, no copy
protection anywhere (the copy protection was actually removed from Quake 2
with one of the patches, wierd) yet they still sold like wildfire.... same
with Half-Life, it had copy protection but of course it was beaten, but it
still sold like mad, same with The Sims.... what can this tell us?, if you
build a game of high enough quality people will still buy it!.... so yes
this sucks for the other small start up companies who are trying to get
their foot in the door, but if their games were good enough they would have
sold and the company would be doing great, if their games arent good enough,
piracy or not, i know that i wouldnt give them a penny of my hard earned
money.
This all depends on what your per-hour entertainment it worth.... i had
absolutely no problem paying almost 100$ CAN for FFX, which ive already
gotten 70+ hours of play out of.... no problem either with SSX, THPS3, or
GTA3, but i would never pay the same price for a game that would take 6 to 7
hours to finish such as MGS2 or ICO. The games are priced that way simply
because they know enough people will pay that to make profit and they
completely ignore the impulse shopper crowd. These companies are out to
make massive profits, not to give a 'fair price' on their merchandise and
the prices have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the game. This
of course isnt a reason for pirating their games, but its a damn good reason
for simply not buying them, which essentially ends up at the same thing,
company X wont get my money
Guts
>>
>> Whether you've copied a "few" games or hundreds doesn't change the fact.
>>
>>
>
>oh grow up
That's the sad part, he is physically grown up, it's just he's still
mentally a whiny little child.
Ryan Ogden
"Wurm" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:a3s5sk$fgh$1...@dns3.cae.ca...
tryin to hit a high note. Come back
with more reasonable numbers and then talk.
Ryan Ogden
doubt that there buddy, not
to mention crazy server tie ups with 7 downloads a minute of 100meg+ files.
ScottX
"Ryan Ogden" <Reo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:_0D88.30163$X64.10...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
>
> >
> 10000 downloads a day?!?!?!?!? thats 417 per hour or 7 per minute. I
highly
> doubt that there buddy, not
> to mention crazy server tie ups with 7 downloads a minute of 100meg+
files.
>
>
Doubt it all you like. Prove it wrong. We're talking worldwide here.
10,000 per day is nothing.
ScottX
>
> >
> I agree with you on that one, his numbers are more off than britney spears
> tryin to hit a high note. Come back
> with more reasonable numbers and then talk.
>
>
Why bother, if I'd have said 100 downloads a day you'd have just claimed
that wasn't possible. By the way, 100 downloads a day would be $560.028 in
3rd party titles and $1400.28 Sega owned 1st party titles or $1960.31 Sega
lost per day. Or $715,512.42 per year. My earlier numbers are extremely
conservative, especially when considering that only 33% of pirated DC games
were the much more popular on average Sega owned games. If you think you
can come up with better, more realistic numbers, go ahead. I'll expect
sources, I already provided mine, which thought a realistic conservative
number was 1 million downloads a day.
Hector
>
> If it wasnt so easy to copy Microsoft's software, i would argue that a large
> percentage of people who use it as a home operating system, wouldnt due to
> the high prices and low quality of each release. But now you say MS makes
> most of their money from corporations, which is true, but there are few, if
> any, large corporations who pirate MS software as MS looks into those quite
> carefully. Pirating MS software has done nothing to the company, its just
> another scapegoat
Wurm, sorry I misquoted the bogus figures being yours on my previous
post.
But anyway, I still disagree with you. Saying "Pirating MS software
has done
nothing to the company" just shows your attitude about piracy. Piracy
is a Big Deal for those who create something and try to gain profit
from selling it. For those who never created anything worthwhile to
sell has a hard time understanding that. It just depends on the
person's moral (which is varied across the spectrum).
Consumers does have control of their money of what they choose to buy.
If a product is shitty, whether that is a PS game, DC game, Nintendo
game, or PC software, a consumer can choose not to purchase it thus
not support that product. Simple as that. What better way to tell the
creator that you don't like it by depriving them of money from your
pocket.
The quality of a product should have no bearing on the legitimacy of
piracy.
Piracy is rooted in selfishness. The attitude here is "I want that
software, but I don't want to pay for it". A product considered as
"high prices" and "low quality" won't be on the top list of a pirate.
Pirates much like regular consumers look for quality first, but only
pirates have the luxary to go after everything else down the list.
Which makes it very hard to determine which product deserve top honors
since money is the key factor in determining its success.
Piracy may not severely hurt Sony or Microsoft, but it did prevent
them from being bigger. As for Sega, it is one of the contributing
factor for the early demise of the Dreamcast. If you haven't realize
already, the DC is perphaps the easiest console to pirate games for.
Anyone who does not know how to copy games somehow knows someone that
do. Cd writers are way too common these days.
The only way for pirates to convince the honest consumer that piracy
is not harmful to the market is by going back in time and STOP piracy
all together. Let the market play it out by the law of supply and
demand. Who knows, the DC could have survived even at last place. If
things have turned out the same with profit figures being the same,
then it would be convincing. Of course this is an impossible scenario,
and piracy will always remain a factor in the software market.
I wonder why large companies spend millions and millions of dollars on
lawyers just to write end user license agreements if we all know that
piracy isn't much a concern and has little bearing on the market?
ScottX
Great post. The first post, with the link, were not my numbers. The
later post, with all the numbers outside of quotes was my post. Piracy is
definitely a problem.
Wurm
> >
> > If it wasnt so easy to copy Microsoft's software, i would argue that a
large
> > percentage of people who use it as a home operating system, wouldnt due
to
> > the high prices and low quality of each release. But now you say MS
makes
> > most of their money from corporations, which is true, but there are few,
if
> > any, large corporations who pirate MS software as MS looks into those
quite
> > carefully. Pirating MS software has done nothing to the company, its
just
> > another scapegoat
>
> Wurm, sorry I misquoted the bogus figures being yours on my previous
> post.
>
quite all right
> But anyway, I still disagree with you. Saying "Pirating MS software
> has done
> nothing to the company" just shows your attitude about piracy. Piracy
> is a Big Deal for those who create something and try to gain profit
> from selling it. For those who never created anything worthwhile to
> sell has a hard time understanding that. It just depends on the
> person's moral (which is varied across the spectrum).
>
> Consumers does have control of their money of what they choose to buy.
> If a product is shitty, whether that is a PS game, DC game, Nintendo
> game, or PC software, a consumer can choose not to purchase it thus
> not support that product. Simple as that. What better way to tell the
> creator that you don't like it by depriving them of money from your
> pocket.
>
This is true, IF that consumer knows everything possible about the purchase
they are about to make. The argument im about to make doesnt hold up as
well for console games, but is true for PC games as it is technically
illeagal for a store to rent out PC games (at least in Canada it is). One
of the (kinda) useful things about piracy is it gives the honest consumer a
way to truly see if they wish to make a specific purchase of a piece of
software, as here in Canada its against federal law for a store to accept an
opened piece of software back from a consumer because they didnt like it,
the only way you can return it is if the software is defective. Now because
of this rule many many honest game purchasers have been burned repeatedly
(myself included) by buying a game that was completely over hyped, buggier
than belief (you remember Pools of Radiance???.... fuck that pissed me off,
80$ down the drain), or they thought they would enjoy it and they didnt. I
realize why this law exists, its so the pirates dont get an easy venue to
make releases of a game / software package then simply return it.... but the
real pirating groups out there dont use stores to get their games, they
always release stuff a few weeks before it comes out in stores, and this law
eventually harms only the honest customer. I mean, you want to buy a shirt,
you try it on first, you want to buy a car, you take it for as many test
runs as you want, and even then if you find you still dont like it you can
trade it in for another model... why the hell isnt it the same with
software?. Im not trying to give a reason for piracy, but i am trying to
show that although we can choose not to purchase a game or not, we dont
always have the full input required to make sure we are getting what we
want. Once again, this is only true for PC games, as console games can be
rented anywhere so there isnt any excuse!
> The quality of a product should have no bearing on the legitimacy of
> piracy.
> Piracy is rooted in selfishness. The attitude here is "I want that
> software, but I don't want to pay for it". A product considered as
> "high prices" and "low quality" won't be on the top list of a pirate.
> Pirates much like regular consumers look for quality first, but only
> pirates have the luxary to go after everything else down the list.
> Which makes it very hard to determine which product deserve top honors
> since money is the key factor in determining its success.
This i partially agree with, yes piracy is rooted in selfishness (i want it
i want it and i want it now!!!!!), but its also a power trip for the younger
internet crowd (look at what i can get for free!!!!!! im better than you
cause i dont pay!!!!!), but i definetly have to disagree with "pirates look
for quality as well", in fact most pirates that i know or have known dont go
for quality at all, but simply go for quantity which further feeds their
power trip (look at how many new games i got this week!!! i rock!!!) and
then never even touch 90% of what they download. And also, many pirates
(unfortunately not all) that i know do go out and pay for those games that
they love, or AT LEAST, buy the sequel of a game that they pirated and
loved.
>
> Piracy may not severely hurt Sony or Microsoft, but it did prevent
> them from being bigger. As for Sega, it is one of the contributing
> factor for the early demise of the Dreamcast. If you haven't realize
> already, the DC is perphaps the easiest console to pirate games for.
> Anyone who does not know how to copy games somehow knows someone that
> do. Cd writers are way too common these days.
>
True, they made the DC wayyyy to easy to pirate (no mod chips, got rid of
the boot disk fast, etc), but once again, the console was on its way out
before Utopia came out with the boot disk. As for preventing MS from being
bigger, i would see it the other way around, i believe that it helped them
be bigger and heres my reasoning. MS OS's are expensive, and unless one
gets an OEM version when they buy a system, they inevitably get a copy from
a friend, they use this copy at home and love the product, their life goes
on and they get a job using computers at some office, they tell their boss
"im not using Mac's / Unix / Linux / etc, im only using MS cause thats what
im used to and my productivity will go up" and bang, the company gets a huge
contract with MS to supply their 1000+ computers with their products. This
is exactly how it worked at my school, we had a course in VHDL programming,
and the company (Xilinx) sold 50 licences to the school for a grand total of
1000$, where normally, each licence will cost you 250,000$ US, why did they
do this?, simple (and this is from them directly). Xilinx only has one real
competitor, if students are trained on their software package, when they get
to the industry they will tell their boss "im only using VHDL cause thats
what i was trained so buy from Xilinx and Synopsis, dont buy from Verilog",
bang!, more money for Xilinx and Synopsis. After all, if MS was really
worried about piracy, considering they own the rights to a few types of copy
protections, dont you think they would have put it on ANY of their
software????
> The only way for pirates to convince the honest consumer that piracy
> is not harmful to the market is by going back in time and STOP piracy
> all together. Let the market play it out by the law of supply and
> demand. Who knows, the DC could have survived even at last place. If
> things have turned out the same with profit figures being the same,
> then it would be convincing. Of course this is an impossible scenario,
> and piracy will always remain a factor in the software market.
>
The only way for pirates to stop what their doing is to: #1) lower the damn
prices on new games, what they are at is ridiculous, #2) stop releasing
crap, 95% of games out there (IMO of course) are unplayable, but the
consumer doesnt know this half the time, they keep dropping money on games
which turn out to be shit, they get pissed off at the industry in general,
and they start downloading games, and #3) stop making such a big fuss over
piracy, all the younger more impressionable kids keep hearing about those
"evil internet pirates", but of course they think "man, theyre cool, i wanna
do that shit too". Its up to the parents to put proper morals into their
children to make them realize the value of money, the value of hard work,
and that you should reward people who do great work and make great games by
giving them your money, but of course this is hurt by #1 and #2 i posted up
above, i mean, think of poor little Jonny Smith, who saved up for 4 months
to buy X game, finally gets the money, runs out to the store, buys the game,
takes it home and finds out its absolute crap (happened to a friend's 7 year
old) and tries to return it only to be told "sorry, your fault you dont like
it, cant do anything". Then the parents feeling bad for the kid (and
getting very pissed off at the industry) give the kid his money back, now
what has all that taught this family?, why pay them for crap and get no help
when you try to point out to them that its crap, fuck the industry, were
downloading everything so if we dont like it we arent hurt.
> I wonder why large companies spend millions and millions of dollars on
> lawyers just to write end user license agreements if we all know that
> piracy isn't much a concern and has little bearing on the market?
Ive never understood this either, ive been gaming for over 20 years now, and
ive never read one of those EULA's ;). And why do they do it?, its a money
saver, the money spent on it is a tax write off, and it saves them time in
court arguing something for months when instead they can just point to it
and say "its all in there". Just cause a large company spends alot of money
on something, doesnt mean it makes sense ;)
getting kevin j
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Wurm wrote:
> "Hector" <dekk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
<snip>
Well said (both Wurm and Hector). Though I doubt piracy would go away
completely even if the quality of software goes up and the prices go down.
Pirates feed off the idea that the best prices is always free. They also
have the attitude that if its for free what can be bad about it? Late
last year the government cracked down on a few pirate operations that
mainly traded software. Some members literally had 1,000s of CD-R's with
pirated software. That's way too much for one person to use. The trend
seems to be that the hardcore pirate is more of a collector feeding to the
more casual pirate.
> > The quality of a product should have no bearing on the legitimacy of
> > piracy.
> > Piracy is rooted in selfishness. The attitude here is "I want that
> > software, but I don't want to pay for it". A product considered as
> > "high prices" and "low quality" won't be on the top list of a pirate.
> > Pirates much like regular consumers look for quality first, but only
> > pirates have the luxary to go after everything else down the list.
> > Which makes it very hard to determine which product deserve top honors
> > since money is the key factor in determining its success.
>
> This i partially agree with, yes piracy is rooted in selfishness (i want it
> i want it and i want it now!!!!!), but its also a power trip for the younger
> internet crowd (look at what i can get for free!!!!!! im better than you
> cause i dont pay!!!!!), but i definetly have to disagree with "pirates look
> for quality as well", in fact most pirates that i know or have known dont go
> for quality at all, but simply go for quantity which further feeds their
> power trip (look at how many new games i got this week!!! i rock!!!) and
> then never even touch 90% of what they download. And also, many pirates
> (unfortunately not all) that i know do go out and pay for those games that
> they love, or AT LEAST, buy the sequel of a game that they pirated and
> loved.
I've heard of people never even buying a game. If they couldn't dl it off
the net, they rented it once and copied it that way. Pirates today seem
to be sliding down further, not going up.
> > Piracy may not severely hurt Sony or Microsoft, but it did prevent
> > them from being bigger. As for Sega, it is one of the contributing
> > factor for the early demise of the Dreamcast. If you haven't realize
> > already, the DC is perphaps the easiest console to pirate games for.
> > Anyone who does not know how to copy games somehow knows someone that
> > do. Cd writers are way too common these days.
>
> True, they made the DC wayyyy to easy to pirate (no mod chips, got rid of
> the boot disk fast, etc), but once again, the console was on its way out
> before Utopia came out with the boot disk. As for preventing MS from being
> bigger, i would see it the other way around, i believe that it helped them
> be bigger and heres my reasoning. MS OS's are expensive, and unless one
> gets an OEM version when they buy a system, they inevitably get a copy from
> a friend, they use this copy at home and love the product, their life goes
> on and they get a job using computers at some office, they tell their boss
> "im not using Mac's / Unix / Linux / etc, im only using MS cause thats what
> im used to and my productivity will go up" and bang, the company gets a huge
> contract with MS to supply their 1000+ computers with their products. This
> is exactly how it worked at my school, we had a course in VHDL programming,
> and the company (Xilinx) sold 50 licenses to the school for a grand total of
> 1000$, where normally, each licence will cost you 250,000$ US, why did they
> do this?, simple (and this is from them directly). Xilinx only has one real
> competitor, if students are trained on their software package, when they get
> to the industry they will tell their boss "im only using VHDL cause thats
> what i was trained so buy from Xilinx and Synopsis, dont buy from Verilog",
> bang!, more money for Xilinx and Synopsis. After all, if MS was really
> worried about piracy, considering they own the rights to a few types of copy
> protections, dont you think they would have put it on ANY of their
> software????
Heh. I love stories like this. Did you know Apple computer gave away
computers to the Seattle Washington school district so all the children of
the MS programmers would learn to use a Mac at school? Anyway, on a more
serious note, MS does use some form of copy protection on its newer
software and has been using it on the high end software for a little while
now. I seriously doubt that MS will put heavy protection Windows CD's due
to how often people need to restore their system ect. Its pratically
taboo to have a machine that didn't need Windows re-installed. MS's
current design with XP is a curse and a blessing. It does make it harder
to pirate but its a major inconveince to the consumer.
Good point. The industry needs to increase the quality of product.
Though in this scenario, the hardcore pirate would still exist.
Oh, retailers in theory can accept console games back. They just don't
since people would start to abuse the policy (look at what happened to
EB). Pirates would be the first in line to take advantage of such a
system.
> > I wonder why large companies spend millions and millions of dollars on
> > lawyers just to write end user license agreements if we all know that
> > piracy isn't much a concern and has little bearing on the market?
>
> Ive never understood this either, ive been gaming for over 20 years now, and
> ive never read one of those EULA's ;). And why do they do it?, its a money
> saver, the money spent on it is a tax write off, and it saves them time in
> court arguing something for months when instead they can just point to it
> and say "its all in there". Just cause a large company spends alot of money
> on something, doesnt mean it makes sense ;)
My personal problem with EULA on computer software is that its tries to
take more of my rights than it should. A EULA in a programming suite
states that any software generated by this product is the creation of
the programming suite's developer, not you. Their is also an HTML editor
with a similar statement in the EULA. Thankfully console games don't
generally have EULA (Phantasy Star Online has one I'm told).
Ryan Ogden
1 million downloads a day. Well I couldn't find exact numbers up untill
today, but the president of Sega predicted 4 million units sold by
march 2000. I am guessing that today the number of dreamcasts owned are
around 10-12 million world wide. So one million downloads a day
means about 1/10 of the dreamcast playing population, minus the people that
actually don't have computers, minus those who dont have an internet
connection, or a high speed connection actaully, considering it takes almost
a half a day to a day to probably download one game on a 56k, minus the
people that don't even
have a cd burner, minus the people that even know how to obtain/find games
online. I've heard that most "Warez" sites usually just throw people around
to
vote all the time or send them to porn pages. So that number has a lot of
subtracting to do. Get back to me with the calculations now. Thanks.
terrell gibbs
>> Many spend quite a bit
> > of money on blanks, system mods, etc. It's a fair bet that if they were
> > not pirating, they would be spending at least as much money on
> > legitimate games, either renting or buying.
> >
>
> Not true, they spend their money on the hardware needed to actually get the
> games (blanks, burners, high speed connections, etc) simply because getting
> the games is a power trip for them and its all about getting the games and
> owning a copy, not playing them... its true that if they werent pirating at
> all they would probably buy more games, but i wouldnt say that it would be
> many more games. Pirating is a psychological thing for these people, and if
> they cant get their kicks downloading each and every thing in sight, they
> would get their kicks another way such as downloading movies, tv shows,
> mp3's or other stupid shit.....
However, they chose games to pirate, rather than something else. Every
game pirate I've known started out being interested in games for their
own sake, just as video pirates typically start out as video
enthusiasts.
Charles Doane
What makes you think that only DC owners download pirated DC warez? That's
like saying that only people with credit cards would steal credit card
numbers. People steal things that they can't use all the time; it's not
even unusual. Street signs are commonly stolen, and by whom? People who
own their own private interstate highways? Just because a thief has no
use for something doesn't do a thing to stop him from stealing it if he
can.
--
ense petite placidum sub libertate quietem;
With the sword she seeks calm repose under
liberty: By the sword we seek peace, but
peace only under liberty.
(motto of Massachusetts)
Ryan Ogden
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C64FCC5...@mindspring.com...
even own a dreamcast also
wouldnt have gone out and bought the game now anyway huh, so thats not money
lost to sega or anybody.