Notice concerning Virginia Heinlein

David M. Silver

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Jan 18, 2003, 9:14:13 AM1/18/03

to

I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
Virginia Heinlein, this morning:

"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
away peacefully in her sleep. I
don't know any details beyond that."

Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
the accident, have not given out that information or other details.

I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.

Most regretfully,

David M. Silver

Peter

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Jan 18, 2003, 9:35:49 AM1/18/03

to

Make Time enough for Love... and To Sail beyond the Sunset, are the two
phrases that came to mind when I read the sad news.
Nice lady.

Thanks for the news
Peter

Sean Kennedy

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Jan 19, 2003, 12:46:55 AM1/19/03

to

David M. Silver wrote:

At last she is with Robert again. At the moment this is the only
consolation I can think of. Thank you for passing on the sad news.

Sean
(...)

TreetopAngel

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:04:51 AM1/18/03

to

"David M. Silver" wrote:

I am truly saddened.

Elizabeth

David Wright

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:38:45 AM1/18/03

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David M. Silver <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>

I am very sad to have heard the news.

I am pleased and honored to have gotten to know her through our on-line
talks over the last two years, and regret that I was never able to make a
personal visit to her.

She was kind to send me several copies of Robert's works including _Have
Space Suit - Will Travel_, a German edition of _The Past Through Tomorrow_
and most especially, a fine collectors edition of _The Unpleasant Profession
of Jonathan Hoag_ put out by Easton Publishers.

On hearing the news, I immediately remembered that Robert's favorite story
was included in this work and I knew that the story was very significant at
this time.

Now, finally, she and Robert can continue their "travels in Elephants"
together.

David Wright

Brian Maranta

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:45:46 AM1/18/03

to

David M. Silver wrote:

> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."

I grok a great sadness...

--
Brian Maranta - Kingston, Ontario, Canada - br...@magsi.com
http://home.cogeco.ca/~bmaranta - AIM Screen Name: bjmaranta
Canadian Army Signals - Royal Military College of Canada, Class of 89
"You live and learn - or you don't live long." - R.A. Heinlein
Mac Evangelist - Dispelling the Mac Myths!

William Dennis

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:51:07 AM1/18/03

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"Brian Maranta" <br...@magsi.com> wrote in message
news:brian-157E3F....@news.cogeco.ca...

> David M. Silver wrote:
>
> > "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She
slipped
> > away peacefully in her sleep. I
> > don't know any details beyond that."
>
> I grok a great sadness...
>
>

Sadness is right ... I guess we all knew or suspected it was coming. It
doesn't make it any easier.
--
Bill Dennis
http://billdennis.net
"I believe it is better to tell the truth than to lie. I believe that it is
better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe that it is better to
know than to be ignorant." -- H.L. Mencken

Stephanie

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Jan 18, 2003, 11:01:22 AM1/18/03

to

>From: "David M. Silver"

>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."
>

Should we reach out and touch those around,
Should we live to the fullest measure within,
Then shall we know that life and love abound,
And go gracefully to the call at life's end.

Stephanie

Peter Scott

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Jan 18, 2003, 11:25:25 AM1/18/03

to

In article <3E29616D...@verizon.net>,

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> writes:
>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."

Another era has ended.

I feel... alone.

All I can do is resolve to try to put back into the world some
of the light that has just left it.

--
Peter Scott

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

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Jan 18, 2003, 11:31:12 AM1/18/03

to

Only a short time back in the history of this group, there was a question if
anyone had had correspondance with RAH himself. I never did. Neither did I have
any with Mrs. Virginia Heinlein.

But the incredibly loaded memory of my sole personal connection with the author
lingers even more poignantly than it probably should...

Please forgive me.

I read in some ancient newsgroup the info that Spider Robinson had told
the general fannish population about RAH's hospitalisation, and the then
current address for the hospital/ward etc. in which he was being kept.

I did *not* do anything then and there, even though get-well cards were
clearly the object of the posting in the first place. However, I did
write the "address" up. (My memory, such as is is, tells me the following
is true) After a particularly ardous session of rebutting
Heinlein-detractors, I chanced upon the piece of paper on which I had
written it. Purely on a whim of the slenderest of kinds, (I did think
mail might have worked, except time had already passed).

Thinking about the possibilities, I opted for the "easiest" one.
I sent a telegram with the words: "Keep on sailing, and get well soon."

But that was not the end of the story. A short while after, I received
a *phone* call asking if I was "that" person who sent "that" telegram, and
could I please provide a full mail address?

Honestly I was more than slightly annoyed. Why did they not ask for the
address when I first dealt with them?

Time passed, and on the morning of the night after I had (I so recollect)
again argued (perhaps misguidedely) on RAH's side, checking the mail was
far from a formality. The letter was from Virginia Heinlein, telling me
that the telegram arrived at a time when RAH had already moved back
home, but the hospital had passed it on. (The kicker (and, no you do
*not* know what it was like) was, that the same mornigs newspaper, and
usenet groups had already brought home the fact of his passing.) She
most cordially told me, that my telegram had been "much appreciated" when
brought to RAH's attention, that she had asked Western Union to tracei
me down...

...and finally, that she queried "for my own curiosity" how I had known
about RAH's illness. My shame is somewhat compounded by the fact that I didn't
reply... (I could not have).

--
"All names belong in the hat, Ben. Man is so built that he cannot imagine his
own death. This leads to endless invention of religions. While this conviction
by no means proves immortality to be a fact, questions generated by it are
overwhelmingly important. The nature of life, how ego hooks into the body, the
problem of ego itself and why each ego *seems* to be the center of the universe
-- these are paramount questions, Ben; they can never be trivial. [...]The only
religious opinion I feel sure of is this: self-awareness is *not* just a bunch
of amino acids bumping together!"

Joel Rosenberg

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Jan 18, 2003, 11:45:13 AM1/18/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> writes:

I miss her, of course. Nice lady; tough lady; sweet lady.

And more about all that some other time, when my heart isn't in my
throat.

Kullervo Nurmi

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Jan 18, 2003, 1:15:29 PM1/18/03

to

For several minutes I've sat and tried to think of something to say.
Only the emptiness remains, a deep feeling of loss.

Kultsi

--
kullervo dot nurmi at pp dot inet dot fi
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/kultsi/

Words are tools and weapons;
letting them get rusty and broken is foolish.
-Jane Davitt

Oscagne

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Jan 18, 2003, 1:12:58 PM1/18/03

to

The proud lady goes away. Maybe she's happier now.

--
Osc

BPRAL22169

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Jan 18, 2003, 1:33:19 PM1/18/03

to

>At last she is with Robert again. At the moment this is the only
>consolation I can think of. Thank you for passing on the sad news.

She was having a difficult recuperation and being helped out by a local friend
(a school chum who had moved to the Atlantic Beaches area of Florida some years
ago). One day a couple of weeks ago, she came in and found Ginny sad and
pensive. She asked if she could get her anything, and Ginny told her "there is
something I want, but you can't get it -- I want Robert back."
Bill

Art McNutt

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Jan 18, 2003, 1:57:10 PM1/18/03

to

in article 3E29616D...@verizon.net, David M. Silver at
ag.pl...@verizon.net wrote on 1/18/03 8:14 AM:

Bitter news, David. Thanks for letting us know.

---
Art

Tokay Gris

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Jan 18, 2003, 2:25:53 PM1/18/03

to

Farewell

Tokay
--
Quote of the Day

Nothing should be prized more highly than the value of each day.

Goethe

Clell Harmon

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Jan 18, 2003, 2:25:35 PM1/18/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."
>

I prefer to think that she joined Robert in Mascarade....

Jane Davitt

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Jan 18, 2003, 2:35:17 PM1/18/03

to

As I type, my eyes are full of tears. I'm sad for us, but not for Ginny.
Somewhere, somehow, she's with Robert. She has to be.

I've met and lost many people in my life. Some pass and their memory
fades. Some you know you'll always remember. Ginny was one of them.

Goodbye, Ginny - and thank you.

Jane Davitt

--
My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516
and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

Mac

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Jan 18, 2003, 2:21:35 PM1/18/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."

********** **************
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
How can we warn/alert/notify Mr. Heinlein of the transition and
give him some time for preparation while his beloved wife makes
the adjustment?
David, thanks for the notice.
On one hand I am sorry that this wonderful lady has left us; on
the other, I am happy that she now is in the company of her
husband.
---Mac

Dr. Rufo

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Jan 18, 2003, 3:03:09 PM1/18/03

to

Thank you, David, for the sharing. "May light perpetual shine upon her."

Dr. Rufo

Dehede011

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Jan 18, 2003, 3:22:37 PM1/18/03

to

When I think of Mrs. Heinlein I always remember what a kind lady she was and
how hard she worked for her beloved Robert.
My mind turns back to the words of an old American Indian protest song by
Floyd Westerman:

I see the train coming in from Fargo
Carrying my mother back to me
She died last week outside of Fargo
(skip)
(chorus)
No more fighting for me Mama
No more suffering to be done
No more pain and no more sorrow
Don't you know that you have won.

She has won -- the literary world will always remember Robert, we will
always remember her.
Dehede

bookman

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Jan 18, 2003, 3:24:30 PM1/18/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."

Not only is she with Robert, but just how many old
feline friends are trying to get into her lap now?
It's a cat-astrophe!

Rest in Peace, Virginia.

Rusty the bookman
Death is the first enemy,
and the last friend

Jani

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Jan 18, 2003, 5:45:08 PM1/18/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."

Very, very sorry to hear that, David. She waited a long time to be with
Robert again, and in the meanwhile gave us all the benefit of her wisdom,
kindness and strength.

Jani and Stephen

cryo-fan

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Jan 18, 2003, 7:44:32 PM1/18/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:21:35 -0800, Mac <nur99-...@spiritone.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
><ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>>
>>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>>don't know any details beyond that."
>********** **************
>Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
>How can we warn/alert/notify Mr. Heinlein of the transition and
>give him some time for preparation while his beloved wife makes
>the adjustment?

Are you serious?

charles krin

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Jan 18, 2003, 9:05:10 PM1/18/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

To borrow a "Kipple"...

Howl, Dogs! A Wolf has died this night...

ck
country doc in louisiana
(no fancy sayings right now)

PrinceOfBaja

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Jan 18, 2003, 9:45:31 PM1/18/03

to

>
>I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
>later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
>Most regretfully,
>
>David M. Silver

My heart goes out to all who knew her, or who merely met her through this NG.
We all are poorer with her passing.

Steve

John M. Atkinson

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:20:27 PM1/18/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."
>
>Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
>and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
>the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>

>I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
>later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.

Wow.

I never met her except through this group and Robert's writing, but
her messages showed a woman with much to admire.

Kyrie Eleison.

--
John M. Atkinson
SGT, USA
The 'eathen in 'is blindness bows down to wood an' stone --
'E don't obey no orders unless they is 'is own.
The 'eathen in 'is blindness must end where 'e began
But the backbone of the Army is the Non-commissioned Man!
--Rudyard Kipling

Bryan R. Stahl

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:08:18 PM1/18/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>
> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>

> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver
>

I just logged back on after everything dealing with my brother's funeral,
etc., and now this. I start to try to deal with things, and ... well, I
guess I don't have much else to say.

Appreciate the people you know, you never know when they'll be gone.

--
Bryan
"for to him that is pitiless the deeds of pity
are ever strange and beyond reckoning." -- Tolkien

David Wright

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Jan 18, 2003, 10:38:07 PM1/18/03

to

John M. Atkinson <johnma...@y.com> wrote in message
news:3e2a1927...@news-server.hot.rr.com...

> On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
> <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

(snip)

> Kyrie Eleison.

Gospodi Pomiluiy.

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Jan 19, 2003, 4:42:59 AM1/19/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>
> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver
>

Goodnight, dear lady. Thanks.

Bob

Mike Dworetsky

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Jan 19, 2003, 5:17:25 AM1/19/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...
> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."

Sadness, blended with the hope that she and Robert are now united forever,
wherever that might be, and will never be parted. Sad also to think that
we shall never hear from her in this group again.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)

Clive R Robertson

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Jan 19, 2003, 4:56:47 AM1/19/03

to

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:14:13 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."
>

I have nothing to add to all that has been said here, except to offer
my condolences to all who knew her.

Now, at last, she can be with Robert again.

Regards,

Clive

Simon Jester

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Jan 19, 2003, 7:00:00 AM1/19/03

to

David M. Silver wrote:
> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>

> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>

> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver
>

I am sorry to hear of her passing. Thank-you for passing on the news, David.

Christopher A. Bohn

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Jan 19, 2003, 9:02:03 AM1/19/03

to

I didn't know her except through her reflection in RAH's works (for no man
can live with a woman for so many years and not have her reflection appear
in his work), and through her occasional postings here -- where she
comported herself as the lady I always imagined her to be, as a prototype
for many of the heroines RAH shared with us.

Thank you, dear lady, and enjoy your reward.

cb

--
Christopher A. Bohn ____________|____________
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~bohn/ ' ** ** " (o) " ** ** '
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."
- Wernher von Braun

Joel Rosenberg

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Jan 19, 2003, 10:38:50 AM1/19/03

to

She'd been talking for some time about being ready to go; we had a
long conversation on the subject more than a year ago.

Tough lady; sweet lady; nice lady. It used to be a regular part of my
daughter Judy's morning routine to chat online with her before leaving
for school, and both Judy and Mrs. Heinlein (she insisted that Felicia
and I call her Ginny; it was all we could do not to say, "I'd be
honored to call you Ginny, Mrs. Heinlein" -- she was like that) looked
forward to them.

A short story...

Judy's had some trouble in school -- not getting homework done, and
such, and coming up with a whole variety of excuses, including,
honest, "the dog ate my homework." Her teachers were not pleased.

I got a call from her exasperated science teacher one morning. "You
wouldn't believe what her lie was this morning. She said she couldn't
finish her homework because she was too busy chatting with
Mrs. Heinlein -- Robert A. Heinlein's widow."

"Well," I said, "she does have to finish her homework, but . . . "

I could hear his jaw drop. "But what?"

"Well, yes, she was -- they chat every morning."

I told Ginny about it, and her first reaction was to apologize --
which, of course, I explained was both accepted and unnecessary --
and, secondly, to ask if it would be okay if they continued their
chats, as she really enjoyed them so much. (Actually, she was very
formal about the last. "Might I please have your permission. . . ")

Not exactly a hard call -- I said of course, that Judy would have to
do her homework, anyway, but she certainly could find time in her day
for five or ten or fifteen minutes to chat before she left for school.

From then on, every one of their chats began with Mrs. Heinlein asking
Judy, "Is your homework done? It's very important."

I had to tell Judy, yesterday, about Mrs. Heinlein. I've done things
I've enjoyed less, but I can't quite remember one offhand.

RIP, Ginny.

Dee

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Jan 19, 2003, 11:13:36 AM1/19/03

to

"Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
news:m2of6dw3...@joelr.ellegon.com...

(she insisted that Felicia
> and I call her Ginny; it was all we could do not to say, "I'd be
> honored to call you Ginny, Mrs. Heinlein" -- she was like that) looked
> forward to them.

I know the feeling, Joel. We e-mailed for a fair while before we ever
begain IM chatting. I always addressed ehr as Mrs. Heinlein, since she
signed Virginia Heinlein. I learned to call her Ginny when she began
signing that way, and someone (David Silver, was it you?) let me know she
would prefer it. I did not want to hold her at arm's length, just couldn't
be so presumptuous.

> A short story...
<snip>

> From then on, every one of their chats began with Mrs. Heinlein asking
> Judy, "Is your homework done? It's very important."

Oh, Joel, thank you for a wonderful story that is so characteristic of
this fine lady.

> I had to tell Judy, yesterday, about Mrs. Heinlein. I've done things
> I've enjoyed less, but I can't quite remember one offhand.

I cannot imagine one quite offhand, either. Special hugs to you
daughter.

> RIP, Ginny.

unread,

Jan 19, 2003, 3:50:52 PM1/19/03

to

>Thank you, David. RAH's detractors sometimes accuse him of putting
>together impossible Superwoman-like characters with the various
>red-headed women, such as Maureen Johnson. Little did they know he was
>just describing this remarkable person. We will all be poorer for the
>loss.

Trefor,
You might enjoy knowing I pinned her down on that one once upon a time.
She kept denying and I kept insisting. Finally she challenged me, "Okay, tell
me which one I was?" My answer? Mrs. Heinlein you were everyone of them. At
that she backed down, "Yes, I was his heroine."
Dehede

The CO

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Jan 19, 2003, 7:43:53 PM1/19/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>
> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>

> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver

"They shall grow not old.........."

The CO

Ogden Johnson III

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Jan 19, 2003, 8:15:24 PM1/19/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
>"I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>away peacefully in her sleep. I
>don't know any details beyond that."

A thoughtful, kind, generous lady, finally reunited with her partner.
Only a name before I started seeing her posts here, she is now
inseparable in my mind from her husband - I now think of them as the
team they were.

OJ III

J. F. Cornwall

unread,

Jan 19, 2003, 10:22:45 PM1/19/03

to

David M. Silver wrote:
> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>

> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver
>

damn... Well, I hope there is an afterlife so she can be with Robert again.

Jim!

Mac

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 2:42:49 AM1/20/03

to

************************************
>Are you serious?
************************************
After ingesting vast quantities of sauerkraut, chilli, and pork &
beans, kindly insert your head into it's usual oriface.
I will let you know when what I state is addressed to a creature
such as yourself; and when I might be serious.
---Mac

Ed Reppert

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 3:23:17 AM1/20/03

to

In article <3E29616D...@verizon.net>, David M. Silver
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>

> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver
>

Oh! Just found this post. Damn. Just... Damn. :-(

--
Regards,

Ed

Ed Reppert

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 3:29:05 AM1/20/03

to

In article <6kjk2vcvqc10jder0...@4ax.com>,
<rjo...@attbi.com> wrote:

> Probably the best way we can honor their memories is by seeing that
> the ideas they brought to us live on, by passing the torch to another
> generation, while ensuring that it burns brightly in this generation.
> Let us honor them each in our own way, according to our beliefs, and
> hoping they will be pleased by our efforts.

"Pay it forward", aye.

--
Regards,

Ed

marc

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 5:53:23 AM1/20/03

to

I can't add any more than others ( who are better at it than I) have
already, I haven't been here long, but long enough to know that anything
that she wrote I wanted to read, her email address was one of the very
few that was marked "autoflag" I will miss her, a wonderful lady , in
ever sense of the word. I feel diminished now that she has gone, but
greater for having known her ( albeit in cyberspace).

--
Marc
T Shirts, Sweatshirts, polo shirts, banners,
signs,decals, stickers etc for clubs and associations of all types
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

Shane Glaseman

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 1:40:00 PM1/20/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3E29616D...@verizon.net>...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>
> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>
> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver

I've just come across this message from David, and like others here,
initially had no idea what to say. No words seem adequate. I regret
now being usually just a reader, and not a poster, here. I never had
the courage to speak to her directly on the group -- part awe, part
respect for her privacy. I'm glad she was able to know, through the
newsgroup and other sources, the respect we had, not only for her
husband, but for her and the blatantly obvious impact she had on her
husband's work. I think it safe to say that his works would not be the
masterpieces we all love were it not for her influence.

And now some words occur -- they appear on my sister's headstone, and,
I think, apply to both Heinleins, as well.

"Heaven, prepare thyself."

Shane Glaseman

Major oz

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 2:41:42 PM1/20/03

to

I just got back from "out there" for four days. Having difficulty reading and
typing through tears -- from tributes my friends have given.
I didn't know her, but chatted with her IM and in the rooms.
Exceedingly gracious, grammitical ( I loved that ) and razor wit.
I will miss her and the, however tenuous, connection to Robert's works and the
thoughts underlying them.
It makes this old athiest long for a place of reunion.

no cheers today

oz

Philip Brown

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 4:47:57 PM1/20/03

to

>"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3E29616D...@verizon.net>...
>> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
>> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>>
>> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
>> away peacefully in her sleep. I
>> don't know any details beyond that."
>>
>> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
>> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
>> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>>
>> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
>> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>>
>> Most regretfully,
>>
>> David M. Silver

A great loss, a great sadness. One can only trust they are at peace
together. I'm thinking something like the end of "Job" would be a just
reward.

I don't think I can add anything that wouldn't be beside the point.

Joel Rosenberg

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 4:51:54 PM1/20/03

to

I dunno. I'm an agnostic myself, but if others feel that Ginny is
with her beloved Robert, that's fine with me; may they be right, after
all, and I hope their belief does, at the very least, give them some
comfort -- and even the possibility does give me some.

But I dunno.

The two things I'm sure of is that she was ready to go -- she told me
so, over a year ago, and it gave me an opportunity to say some things
that I'd have been very sad had they been left unsaid -- and that she
isn't hurting anymore.

And, for me, that'll have to. Now I'm going to read "The Man Who
Traveled in Elephants" again.

--
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com

Joel Rosenberg

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 4:53:00 PM1/20/03

to

I dunno. I'm an agnostic myself, but if others feel that Ginny is

with her beloved Robert, that's fine with me; the may be right, after

all, and I hope their belief does, at the very least, give them some
comfort -- and even the possibility does give me some.

But I dunno.

The two things I'm sure of is that she was ready to go -- she told me
so, over a year ago, and it gave me an opportunity to say some things
that I'd have been very sad had they been left unsaid -- and that she
isn't hurting anymore.

And, for me, that'll have to do. Now I'm going to read "The Man Who

Francesco Spreafico

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 4:56:42 PM1/20/03

to

Previously on David M. Silver the Vampire Slayer:

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:

I could read this only today... All I could say has already been said in
better ways by everyone else, bu I still want to say that I'm so very sad.

Thank you Ginny, for everything.

--
Francesco

Bob

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 5:17:57 PM1/20/03

to

>

This thread is the first I have heard about Mrs. Heinleins passing.
I hope she was blessed, and passed in her sleep.
Pardon me. I have some dust in my eye.
Bob

Jackie

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 9:08:21 PM1/21/03

to

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E29616D...@verizon.net...

> I received the following e-mail message from a close friend of Mrs.
> Virginia Heinlein, this morning:
>

> "I'm sorry to tell you that Ginny passed away this morning. She slipped
> away peacefully in her sleep. I
> don't know any details beyond that."
>
> Mrs. Heinlein had been in the hospital since Thanksgiving when she fell
> and broke her hip. At her wishes, since that time, those of us aware of
> the accident, have not given out that information or other details.
>
> I'm sure there will be more formal announcements, requests, details,
> later. I am deeply saddened. She was an inspiration to all she touched.
>
> Most regretfully,
>
> David M. Silver

One of the saddest pieces of news I've heard in a while... she will be
missed.

~*~Jackie~*~

William Hughes

unread,

Jan 25, 2003, 1:10:25 PM1/25/03

to

Up until now, I've held off commenting on Ginny's passing because, quite
frankly, I had no idea what to say.

As fate would have it, a couple of days ago I received a number of CDs that I
had ordered some time ago. One of the tracks is a song of love, of longing, and
of hope - and, in my opinion, will stand in for the words that I cannot find.

Excuse me, gotta go - got something in my eye...

Rusty Bill

I'll Never Find Another You
The Seekers

(Words and Music by Tom Springfield)

There's a new world somewhere
They call The Promised Land
And I'll be there some day
If you will hold my hand
I still need you there beside me
No matter what I do
For I know I'll never find another you

There is always someone
For each of us they say
And you'll be my someone
For ever and a day
I could search the whole world over
Until my life is through
But I know I'll never find another you

It's a long, long journey
So stay by my side
When I walk through the storm
You'll be my guide, be my guide

If they gave me a fortune
My treasure would be small
I could lose it all tomorrow
And never mind at all
But if I should lose your love, dear
I don't know what I'll do
For I know I'll never find another you

Instrumental interlude

But if I should lose your love, dear
I don't know what I'll do
For I know I'll never find another you

Another you, another you

(Lyrics courtesy of http://www.webfitz.com/lyrics/Lyrics/1965/501965.html)

David M. Silver

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 5:44:52 AM1/26/03

to

>

See,
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-heinlein26jan26,0,2614738.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dobituaries

You may have to paste it together. They didn't do too badly, only confusing
one thing; and did some research of their own.

Very salutory,

David

David M. Silver

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 5:59:34 AM1/26/03

to

To heck with it. You all should be able to read it whether you can access their site or not. They did such
a wonderful job, I'm copying and posting it here (only one slight confusion). They can come sue me:

OBITUARIES
Virginia Heinlein, 86; Wife, Muse and Literary Guardian of Celebrated Science Fiction Writer

By Elaine Woo, Times Staff Writer

Virginia Heinlein, who gave her husband, science fiction writer Robert A. Heinlein, the idea for his
acclaimed 1961 novel "Stranger in a Strange Land" and inspired many of the strong female characters in his
stories, died Jan. 18 at a retirement community in Atlantic Beach, Fla. She was 86.

Heinlein died in her sleep after a long struggle with respiratory illness and a broken hip suffered on
Thanksgiving, said David M. Silver, secretary-treasurer of the Heinlein Society.

Her husband's muse, manager and literary guardian, Virginia Heinlein was widely known and respected in the
science fiction community for her devotion to the Heinlein legacy after the prolific writer's death in 1988
at the age of 80.

She was responsible for the posthumous publication of the original, uncut manuscript of "Stranger in a
Strange Land" in 1990, as well as for "Grumbles From the Grave," a selection of his letters; the travel
memoir "Tramp Royale"; and a political handbook, "Take Back Your Government."

Robert Heinlein was considered by many to be the most influential science fiction author since H.G. Wells.
During a five-decade career that produced 37 novels and 11 short-story collections, he won an unprecedented
four Hugo Awards, given by popular vote of science fiction fans for the best novel of the year.

"Stranger in a Strange Land" was his best-known work. It became, to the author's dismay, a favorite of the
iconoclastic '60s generation, in part for its apparent advocacy of free love and cynicism about organized
religion.

The story behind the novel began with the November 1948 issue of the magazine Astounding Science Fiction.
In keeping with the speculative nature of the genre, a letter writer complimented the editor on an issue a
year in the future, going so far as to mention stories by specific writers. The editor, John W. Campbell
Jr., decided to fulfill the letter writer's fantasy and have the stories written for the November 1949
issue.

The letter writer said one of the stories was "Gulf" by Robert A. Heinlein. Heinlein accepted the
assignment, then held a brainstorming session with his closest advisor -- his wife.

"Among other unsuitable notions, I suggested a story about a human infant raised by an alien race,"
Virginia Heinlein wrote years later.

Her husband liked the idea, made some notes, but then set them aside. The idea was "too big" for a short
story, so he pursued a different theme for "Gulf."

He returned to the notes for the other story in fits and starts over the next decade. The eventual result
was "Stranger in a Strange Land," which introduced the character Valentine Michael Smith as a baby raised
by Martians on Mars with a wisdom far beyond that of any earthling.

The author turned in a manuscript 800 pages long. His publishers, fearful of some of the contents,
including lengthy descriptions of Martian sex, requested a big reduction, of about 250 pages.

"He always resented the fact they had made him cut a substantial amount of his work," Silver said. "She
wanted it restored." But it took an act of Congress and Robert Heinlein's death before that could be
accomplished.

In 1976, Congress passed a law that allowed renegotiation of copyright issues after an author's death. The
copyright for "Stranger" came up the year after Heinlein died, in 1988.

Virginia requested a copy of the original manuscript, which was archived at UC Santa Cruz along with other
papers. "I ... read that and the published version side by side," she wrote. "And I came to the conclusion
that it had been a mistake to cut the book."

In 1990, the unexpurgated, 220,000-word version of "Stranger" was published by Ace/G.P. Putnam's Sons.
Reviewers were split over the new edition. Some, like Rudy Rucker in the Los Angeles Times Book Review,
preferred the older, shorter version, commenting that much of the material restored in the new one was
"glaringly sexist." Others, such as novelist Kurt Vonnegut, found the restorations salutary. Writing in the
New York Times, he pronounced them "icing on a cake which for people who like that kind of cake was already
quite satisfactory."

The Heinleins married in 1948, a few years after they met at the Naval Air Experimental Station in
Philadelphia, where she was a chemist and aviation test engineer and he a civilian engineer. He had been a
first lieutenant in the Navy before receiving a medical discharge because of tuberculosis in 1934. She was
his assistant, even though as a lieutenant commander she outranked him.

A Brooklyn dentist's daughter who majored in chemistry at New York University, she was an accomplished
swimmer and diver who reached national competitive levels in figure skating. She spoke seven languages,
including French, Latin and Russian, and studied for a doctorate in biochemistry at UCLA.

Her husband, who called her Ginny, once described her as "redheaded and quite ... an athlete -- four
letters in college -- and [she] could probably lick me in a fair fight.... She outranks me on the Navy
rolls, which seems to give her quite a bit of satisfaction."

Athletic throughout her life, she once saved Robert's life when he collapsed on a hill in Tahiti. Although
shorter than he, she threw him over her back and carried him down to the beach, where he was flown to
Australia for medical treatment.

Another time, she amazed him and a friend, writer Jerry Pournelle, when they were snowbound at their house
in Colorado Springs. The two men were desperate for breakfast, but seeing no hope of obtaining any after
inspecting the Heinleins' 1948 Cadillac frozen to the driveway, returned glumly to the kitchen. There, to
their astonishment, was Virginia, frying bacon and eggs.

"She said, 'I just went up the hill and got some. There were steel lugs in the tire, some water in the
driveway, and the tires had frozen, so I just took a pot of hot water and got them loose and drove up the
hill.' "

Virginia Heinlein, Pournelle said, "was a better engineer than he was. He was very proud of her."

She was the model for many of the superwomen who crop up in her husband's stories, such as Maureen Johnson
Smith, the mother of the immortal Lazarus Long in "Time Enough for Love," published in 1973. The female
characters tend to have red hair, like Virginia's, as well as great wit and an ability to overcome
adversity with aplomb.

Greg Bear, a science fiction writer who knew the Heinleins, said he has met women who were inspired by
Robert's stories to become scientists. "And Robert," Bear said, "was inspired by Ginny. Ginny was their
original."

The Heinleins had no children. Her ashes will be scattered in the Pacific Ocean, as were her husband's.

Pete LaGrange

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 11:16:01 AM1/26/03

to

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:44:52 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>You may have to paste it together. They didn't do too badly, only confusing
>one thing; and did some research of their own.

David,

I've had good success enclosing long links in the "<" and ">" symbols,
somehow keeps the link from wrapping...for future reference.
--
Pete LaGrange

David M. Silver

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 11:39:09 AM1/26/03

to

Thanks, Pete. I'll try that next time.

BPRAL22169

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Jan 26, 2003, 11:39:20 AM1/26/03

to

I think it wouldn't hurt to let these people writing the obituaries know that
she managed one of the largest literary estates in the world. That seems to
escape them, but it's an important part of the story.
Bill

Dr. Rufo

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 12:29:03 PM1/26/03

to

David M. Silver wrote:
> To heck with it. You all should be able to read it whether you can access their site or not. They did such
> a wonderful job, I'm copying and posting it here (only one slight confusion). They can come sue me:
>
> OBITUARIES
> Virginia Heinlein, 86; Wife, Muse and Literary Guardian of Celebrated Science Fiction Writer

Thank you, David, you "reprobate scofflaw!" <WEG>

Dr. Rufo

Dehede011

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Jan 26, 2003, 1:41:55 PM1/26/03

to

Hey Dave and Bill,
The LA Times reported her as a LT Commander. I thought she was a LtJg.
Am I right or wrong?
Dehede

Dehede011

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 1:44:44 PM1/26/03

to

Ladies & Gentlemen,
I have noticed Ginny always spoke of Robert while many writers refer to Mr.
Heinlein as Bob.
Does anyone know how he was addressed by close friends and family?
Dehede

David M. Silver

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 2:28:01 PM1/26/03

to

Dehede011 wrote:

I understand she was a full Lieutenant [O-3, today] while on active duty, but
I do not know the source of the L.A. Times information on ranks given -- the
reporter and I did not discuss ranks held by either Robert or Ginny, and the
prepared suggested obituary referred to her rank as merely Lieutenant.
Obviously, "first lieutenant," attributed to Robert, isn't a Navy rank,
although it is a title of an officer, the senior lieutenant (usually), aboard
a vessel; and an Army, etc., First Lieutenant [O-2] is the equivalent of the
Lieutenant (jg.) rank Robert actually achieved before forced medical
retirement. I never asked Ginny what rank she retired at. There's nothing to
have stopped the Navy from giving her a 'tailgate' promotion to Lieutenant
Commander [O-4, the equivalent of Army, Air Force or Marines Major] either
upon her release from active duty at the end of the war or upon final
retirement in the Navy Reserve. I simple don't know.

If she did receive a tailgate promotion, then obviously it wasn't terribly
important to either Robert or Ginny, since the anagram of her name in beast is
"Lt. Virginia Heinlein, USNR." [I can't recall immediately whether it was
Lieutenant spelled all the way out or not.]

David

Dehede011

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 4:15:54 PM1/26/03

to

David,
You are quite right, the Navy does have a job assignment called First
Lieutenant. In an airdale squadron he is in charge of all the painting,
janitorial and goodness knows what other chores.
When I first checked into VP49, in Bermuda, as an E-3 I was assigned to the
First Lieutenant for about a month. We had taken the petty officer exams
before leaving our prior duty station They held the entire consignment of
unrated sailors with the First Lieutenant until the results of the test were
known. Those of us that were promoted moved on. Those that did badly on the
test went on a 3 month stint in mess cooking (KP)
During that month I learned to sweep the hanger deck, then to sweep it
again and to paint various objects at the Leading Chiefs pleasure.
I was designated to be an aviation electronics technician and I got to ply
my specialty every time some heavy electronics equipment needed moving.
As a senior LtJg on a destroyer it kind of figures that Heinlein might end
up as First Lieutenant, however for the definitive word you will have to ask a
black shoe, if we have any.
Ron

Mike Dworetsky

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Jan 26, 2003, 5:14:44 PM1/26/03

to

A pity the obit does not mention that the Heinlein literary estate passes to
the US Naval Academy to support the Heinlein chair of Astronautics (I think
that's the title).

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)

"David M. Silver" <ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3E33BFCE...@verizon.net...

Cato

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 6:39:14 PM1/26/03

to

Ironic, this thread, considering that the obit was posted in its
entirety, and the subject of the thread, Virginia Heinlein, lasted
posted on the internet on Thanksgiving a post that spoke out strongly
against copyright violation and violators.

That happened on the day she broke her hip....

=============================
cry-o-Randee

BPRAL22169

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 8:39:10 PM1/26/03

to

> As a senior LtJg on a destroyer it kind of figures that Heinlein might end

>up as First Lieutenant . . .

I don't really have anything to add to David's cogent remarks, but I thought it
worthwhile to point out that the Navy makes a great distinction between rank
and rating. Rank is your position in the overall structure of the Navy, while
rating is where you fit into the particular Table of Organization of which you
are a part. Ron is saying that First Lieutenant is a rating, whereas
Lieutenant junior grade is a rank.
Bill

BPRAL22169

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 8:42:24 PM1/26/03

to

> Does anyone know how he was addressed by close friends and family?

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 9:47:19 PM1/26/03

to

Ed Reppert wrote:

Gah, David Silver didn't write it. He quoted an L.A. Times obit writer's
obituary. ;-( David Silver knows that First Lieutenant is a rank only in
the three services that do not purport to walk on water. ;-P

"Mr. Bush, keel haul that swab Reppert!"

D

Dehede011

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 11:05:34 PM1/26/03

to

>But, if I remember correctly, Heinlein, in his destroyer tour, was the gunnery
officer. Different job altogether.

Ed,
Would a junior officer on a destroyer have had a number of job assignments.
I once was told of a number of assignments he had on the Lexington and First
Lieutenant was not among them -- that leaves the destroyer USS Roper as his
opportunity to be First Lieutenant.
BTW, I do not remember my First Lieutenants name nor do I remember ever
having heard it. The leading chief ran the works.
Was not the term rating reserved for enlisted men whereas officers would be
described by rank and division assigned to. However in some case the devision
was not mentioned and an officer would be known simply as the Morale Officer,
Executive Officer, etc. Is my memory correct? I haven't been in that crazy
canoe club for 45 years.
Ron h.

Mac

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 7:12:05 AM1/27/03

to

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:59:34 GMT, "David M. Silver"
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>To heck with it. You all should be able to read it whether you can access their site or not. They did such
>a wonderful job, I'm copying and posting it here (only one slight confusion). They can come sue me:
>
>OBITUARIES
>Virginia Heinlein, 86; Wife, Muse and Literary Guardian of Celebrated Science Fiction Writer
>By Elaine Woo, Times Staff Writer
>
>Virginia Heinlein, who gave her husband, science fiction writer Robert A. Heinlein, the idea for his
>acclaimed 1961 novel "Stranger in a Strange Land" and inspired many of the strong female characters in his
>stories, died Jan. 18 at a retirement community in Atlantic Beach, Fla. She was 86.

SNIP SNIP
Thanks for posting this.
I'm sending Miss. Woo a "thank you" for the content and general
tone of the Obituary.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
---Mac

Ed Reppert

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 2:46:33 PM1/27/03

to

In article <3E349DF1...@verizon.net>, David M. Silver
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Gah, David Silver didn't write it. He quoted an L.A. Times obit writer's
> obituary. ;-( David Silver knows that First Lieutenant is a rank only in
> the three services that do not purport to walk on water. ;-P

The "gah" wasn't directed at David Silver, but at the author or editor
of the obit who made the error. And whaddya mean "purport"? :-)

> "Mr. Bush, keel haul that swab Reppert!"

Heh. I am a Shellback, sir. You stand in danger of incurring the Royal
Displeasure of His Majesty, Neptunus Rex, King of the Raging Main.
Beware! :-))

--
Regards,

Ed

Ed Reppert

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Jan 27, 2003, 3:16:32 PM1/27/03

to

In article <20030126230534...@mb-fg.aol.com>, Dehede011
<dehe...@aol.com> wrote:

> Would a junior officer on a destroyer have had a number of job assignments.

Probably. The usual plan in a three year tour is two jobs: one in
either Ops or Weapons, and one in Engineering. But I didn't have that.
Well, not exactly. When I was assigned to Worden for my first sea tour,
I was designated NTDS (Navy Tactical Data System) Maintenance Officer.
However, when I reported aboard, I found that (a) the Communications
Officer had absent-mindedly gone to church, leaving the CMS
(Communications Security Material System) vault open. He had been
relieved and reassigned, (b) The NTDSMO had been made Communications
Officer, (c) the EMO (Electronics Material Officer) had fallen down a
ladder and messed up his back, and so was reassigned off the ship for
medical reasons. So the Captain says to me "you think you can handle
two divisions?" and I ended up as *both* the EMO and the NTDSMO for
about six months. Wasn't so hard - I left the division structures
intact and let the Chiefs handle most of the day to day stuff. :-) The
new EMO, who reported aboard, as I said, about 6 months later, was not
happy - he was an LDO LT who had been a Department Head at Navcommsta
Guam, and should have been going to his XO tour. Division Officer on a
cruiser was a step backwards. (He got his XO tour after he left
Worden). Halfway through my tour, the CO asked me to stay on as NTDSMO,
instead of switching (probably to Engineering), so I did.

> I once was told of a number of assignments he had on the Lexington
> and First Lieutenant was not among them -- that leaves the destroyer
> USS Roper as his opportunity to be First Lieutenant.

I dunno about back then, but these days first lieutenant on a carrier
is, I think, a LCDR or WO billet - probably for an LDO. Not a job for a
first tour JO.

> BTW, I do not remember my First Lieutenants name nor do I remember
> ever having heard it. The leading chief ran the works.

That's the way it's supposed to work. If you see the DivO, you know
that somebody has screwed up. ;-)

> Was not the term rating reserved for enlisted men whereas officers
> would be described by rank and division assigned to.

Yes. See my previous post on that, or
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rankrate.html

> However in some case the devision was not mentioned and an officer
> would be known simply as the Morale Officer, Executive Officer, etc.
> Is my memory correct? I haven't been in that crazy canoe club for 45
> years.

Pretty close. "Morale Officer" is a collateral duty. It is the *only*
collateral duty, if memory serves, assigned to the Captain. Typically,
collateral duties are passed out to junior officers, the junior ensign
(aka "George") getting the worst of them - for which reason he is also
known as "SLJO" or "Shitty Little Jobs Officer". Executive Officer is
the billet title of the second in command, who is technically, I
suppose, neither a division officer nor a department head, although the
Admin division falls directly under him.

The general structure is Ship::Departments (Operations, Weapons,
Engineering, Supply, etc.)::Divisions (Deck, Navigation,
Communications, Damage Control, etc.)

First Lieutenant (Deck Division) would be under Weapons, though there
is a new "Combat Systems" structure that was tried on some ships (not
ones in which I served) when I was on active duty, and which, I think,
is more widespread (and possibly "standard") now. In that new
structure, Deck would be under the Ops Department.

I had thought that LT(jg) Heinlein was Gunnery Officer in Roper, but I
may be mistaken. Come to think on it, as it was his second tour, he
would have been less likely to have been rotated to another billet -
and his assigned tour length would probably have been shorter than a
first tour - say about 18 months. But that's based on my experience in
the 70s and 80s. Things were no doubt different in the 1930s.

--
Regards,

Ed

David M. Silver

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Jan 27, 2003, 3:44:34 PM1/27/03

to

Ed Reppert wrote:

Sir, I have the honor to report that I never was on a troopship that voyaged
long enough to have crossed the equator! Bobbing, up and down, up and down,
up and down, again, once for seven days in the Patch to Europe was absolutely
enough! " . . . leaving on a jet plane // won't be back until . . . " Thank
God!

Did you notice the invitation wrt to the 'leadership' trope, essay, or
digressions in Number, Ed?

David

David M. Silver

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Jan 27, 2003, 3:55:52 PM1/27/03

to

Ed Reppert wrote:

> [snip] Things were no doubt different in the 1930s.

They doubtlessly were, Ed. Heinlein wrote LCmd Buell a pretty comprehensive
description of what they had him doing in Lexington -- I don't recall any
mention of what he did on Roper in that letter. I'll try to find time to dig it
out, for information, and post it. I'm pretty sure he was never 'first
lieutenant' on Lexington, although, because of the shorthanded officer'd 1930s
Navy he has some unusual duties that would hardly be assigned an Ensign on a
carrier these days.

D

Ed Reppert

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Jan 27, 2003, 4:34:09 PM1/27/03

to

In article <3E359D0E...@verizon.net>, David M. Silver
<ag.pl...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Heinlein wrote LCmd Buell a pretty comprehensive description of what
> they had him doing in Lexington -- I don't recall any mention of what
> he did on Roper in that letter. I'll try to find time to dig it out,
> for information, and post it.

'Twould be appreciated. :)

> I'm pretty sure he was never 'first lieutenant' on Lexington,
> although, because of the shorthanded officer'd 1930s Navy he has some
> unusual duties that would hardly be assigned an Ensign on a carrier
> these days.

Not surprising. Not surprising at all. "The difficult we do
immediately, the impossible takes a little longer" has always been the
tradition.

--
Regards,

Ed

Michael Cassutt

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Jan 27, 2003, 10:46:32 PM1/27/03

to

This won't do readers outside the LA TIMES service region much good, but the
same section which contained the excellent obit of Virginia also had a
historical look at a "temporary" resident for veterans in the LA area.... a
Rodger Young Village.

The village is gone now, bulldozed years ago and now the site of the Gene Autry
Western Museum.

The article does note -- sadly but accurately -- that Rodger Young is almost
completely forgotten these days.

Except by Heinlein readers, of course.

Michael Cassutt

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Jan 29, 2003, 8:12:44 PM1/29/03

to

Sorry to hear it.

--
A