HP49G+:photo: ITS A REALITY! HERE IS THE LINK IN HPCALC.ORG
Gregorio Munoz
Tennessee Tom
1) The "apostrophe" and "EVAL" keys are back (where they belong) as a
primary keys.
2) 75MHz!?!? I hope the batteries last.
BOOOO!!!:
1) That damned "HIST" key is a waste. Only there to make algebraic mode
work like the vastly superior RPN.
2) Why not print the "SWAP" "VIEW" "PICTURE" and "STACK" functions where
they belong? This must also be to cater to the algebraic mode?
But, as long as the keys are not loose and mushy, like a TI, I'm probably
gonna get me one!
Tennessee Tom
"Gregorio Munoz" <gregor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com...
Camille
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
It seems nice, the only point that could let people doubt (about the
pdf file provided in this page on hpcalc) is :
Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
Title : 49G+ Presentation
Author : Eric Rechlin
(Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
not, it's just a thought)
Camille
EShore
1) Nice colors, keyboard is less cluttered than the original HP49.
2) X-Root function (the #1 complaint from the TI users of the 89)
3) Hopefull the SD cards will be affordable.
4) I like the USB port, HP has stepped into the new century.
On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
"Tennessee Tom" <ho...@tonkin.com> wrote in message news:<Q3MWa.8946$u_3....@news02.roc.ny>...
Tennessee Tom
> had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
Oops!! Sorry, I didn't know we had any TI owners here. I didn't mean to
offend. It's just that if I wanted a TI calculator, I'd buy one from TI,
not HP.
RPN is slowly being put out to pasture, that's my primary complaint. If TI
came out with a true RPN calculator, I'd probably buy one (but don't tell
anybody).
I do own a TI-36X solar that was purchased to take exams where fancy
calculators were restricted. I did that because I refused to buy an "HP"
that had algebraic input. Any trouble I had was not from switching to
algebraic, it was from miskeys with the relatively softer keys, with which I
was unaccustomed (how's that?).
Regards,
Tom
"EShore" <eddies...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cf3f4946.03080...@posting.google.com...
Thierry Morissette
Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
"Gregorio Munoz" <gregor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com...
Rich
In infinite wisdom Gregorio Munoz answered:
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
Noted in the presentation...
- Numerical range: exponent from -4999 to +4999
- number if steps/regs or bytes: 1.2 MB (??)
- numberof programs/formulae: ++ (??)
- levels of subroutines: ++ (??)
Looks like some things have not yet been nailed down.
Also I think that with SD as storage, there's
no need for lots of onboard flash. With the 49G,
the onboard flash is it.
As for the display size, was not the Saturn more or
less hardwired for 131x64, which makes the new 131x80
rather interesting. Since the processor is not a
Saturn, but an ARM, clearly they had to build a new
display driver, so I guess there was room for improvement.
The TI-89 is 160x100. I wonder about contrast.
Nontheless, this is very interesting.
The ARM is more powerful than the 68K in the TI. But if
it's emulating the Saturn, it might be a wash.
Rich
Harald Kipp
>
> (Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
> not, it's just a thought)
Also note the ugly HP logo in the pdf. Looks more like a
bitmap grabbed from the web than a vectorized original.
Harald
--
For spam do not remove n_o_s_p_a_m from email address
Rich
In infinite wisdom Camille answered:
> gregor...@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com>...
>
>>I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
>>Here is the link:
>>http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
>
>
> It seems nice, the only point that could let people doubt (about the
> pdf file provided in this page on hpcalc) is :
>
> Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
>
> Title : 49G+ Presentation
> Author : Eric Rechlin
Yeah, I noticed this as well. But I did not immediately note this
Part of the HP Calculator Archive,
Copyright 1997-2003 Eric Rechlin.
at the bottom of the hpacal web-page.
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
I also note that nothing in the document properties says HP.
And while the date on the bottom of the slides is 7.22.03, the
document creation date is "Fri Aug 01 21:23:33 2003". Seems the
document was created about 17 days after it's revision date.
Curious that.
I'd be very uncomfortable in assuming that this document is from
HP at this point. And if it were, would not HP come knocking at his
door demanding it's removal? They've done so when calculator sites
just used the HP logo. I'd imagine that for displaying a "confidential"
internal document, they would get a tad more upset. But maybe I'm
way off base here.
Rich
Rich
In infinite wisdom Rich answered:
[...]
> And while the date on the bottom of the slides is 7.22.03, the
> document creation date is "Fri Aug 01 21:23:33 2003". Seems the
> document was created about 17 days after it's revision date.
> Curious that.
Opps, just noticed, "Aug 01", not Sept 01. Never mind this part.
Rich
Jean-Yves Avenard
"Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote:
> Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
>
> Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator... Always
talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
Jean-Yves
James Lothian
Well, it's nice to see HP back in the game again!
First impressions:
design: it looks a lot more 'serious' than the 49. I like the colour
scheme a lot more. I guess we'll have to wait and see how durable it is.
Features: Good to see USB, though it might've been a good idea to retain
RS232 as well, for people who can't use USB. Secure Digital? Don't know
much about it -- all my gadgets use compact flash. Not a problem though;
it's nice to see expansion capability there, and using standard cards.
Documentation: Please, please let the documentation be hugely better
than the 49's!!
It's interesting to speculate on how they did it. I guess if you were
going to build a follow-on to the 49 using an ARM CPU, there are
probably two ways you could do it:
1) Implement a saturn emulator on the ARM, then run a modified
HP 49 rom on it. Pro: I guess this would be relatively cheap and easy
to do, and it would give good compatibility with existing 49 software.
Con: it would be relatively slow.
2) Re-implement the RPL inner interpreter and the RPL primitives in ARM
assembler. Pro: should be much faster. Con: lack of binary compatibility
with existing software, and would be much more work.
Given that the PDF doesn't have anything to say about the speed of the
49g+
compared to the original 49g, it *sounds* as though they've probably
taken
the first approach. However, we'll just have to wait and see!
James
Rich
In infinite wisdom Jean-Yves Avenard answered:
> On 2/8/03 17:22, in article _GQWa.11474$Cx4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com,
> "Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
>>
>>Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
>
>
> In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
>
> You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator... Always
> talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
It looks like you two know each other.
But he may be right as for "the way things are".
Kinpo builds the latest (new) HP's (which are simply branded HP).
http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm
Personally, they don't impress me as a high-end manufacturer, and
I bought one to play with.
It also looks like a good bet that the document is not from HP.
But HP has promised that new calcs are coming, time will tell.
Rich
Thierry Morissette
DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up. F1 to
F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys, but
the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
which one is it?
A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
batteries?
A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which I
doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000 digits
long? Do you REALLY believe that?
What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a special,
HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price that
the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So don't
believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:BB51DB69.11AEB%m...@privacy.net...
Al Arduengo
convinced yet. The pic looks eerily like a 49/48 bastardization and
the strange pdf doc smacks of prank. If it is real, I will admit my
fault and apologize. If it is *not* real, I am better for not having
been sucked in.
Show me the hardware, then I will believe.
Signed,
Skeptical in Round Rock
Thierry Morissette
by the way, no, we never met, except on this newsgroup, at a time when he
was much more civil.
"Rich" <som...@somwehere.com> wrote in message
news:3F2C2BE3...@somwehere.com...
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:87brv7n...@exal.austin.rr.com...
Is it April 1st already?
The photo could be a Casio fake like the olf TI 89 fake.
The calculator looks like Casio (the cursor keys) to me.
I also want to hold this baby in my hands.
Like we Finns put it:
I don't believe until I see it - and I still then don't believe it!
(-;
VPN
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
(-;
> I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
> I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up. F1
to
> F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys,
but
> the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
> which one is it?
Would you be impressed if the keys were (slippery) plastic ???
> A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> batteries?
Twice ???
(-;
> A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
I
> doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
digits
> long? Do you REALLY believe that?
Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
> What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
special,
> HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price
that
> the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
The new HP think it's too expensive to have a HP special format
and thus any SD would be standard SD. Thanks to Fiorina?!
(this was very strange thing to say, but we live very strange days)
> I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
Haa! Admit that you believed enough to write a news message!!!
Yes - IF IT IS TRUE - then you should be so suprised that you fell off
your...
> Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
don't
> believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
> > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
What?
> > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
Translation, please!
I hate it when people use a language which I don't know
VPN <murmuring something strange in Finnish>
pkhuong
> The ARM is more powerful than the 68K in the TI. But if
> it's emulating the Saturn, it might be a wash.
underlying architecture hard. Even if they did, people would probably
find a way to bypass it.
Tennessee Tom
Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio? That
could account for the keys looking the same.
The power issue is what gets me the most. Does anybody know of a document
for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an ARM9
at 75MHz? I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
Tom
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:gJXWa.4294$HC4....@reader1.news.jippii.net...
Dave h
obviously false document - Thought Bush & co had the monopoly on that at
present.
Dave Holland
"Rich" <som...@somwehere.com> wrote in message
news:3F2C02B6...@somwehere.com...
J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente
> I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
As always, any new rumours about new HP calcs seems to began a war on this
newsgroup.
> I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
Maybe the picture is not the most impress thing on such device, if it is a
real new hp49g+
> I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up.
> F1 to F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow
> keys, but the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic
> keys. So which one is it?
Who knows? If it comes from Kinpo, perhaps it is something like hp12c
platinum keys.
> A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> batteries?
I think that it says something about that on hpcalc.org site. I don't know
much about ARM processors, but I think they can operate at different speed
depending on requirements, so perhaps 75MHz are just need for some
specific tasks.
> A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent from
> -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which I
> doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
> digits long? Do you REALLY believe that?
Perhaps it is a typo, not sure. Maybe it is related to math precission.
> What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
> special, HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind
> of price that the new exponent capabilities have probably been built
> for)?
HP-only SD card? Well, as far as I know, a SD is defined by an association
of companies or some kind of that. You can say your device is using a SD
card and make it only available for your SD cards, despite you were
Microsoft and were doing Bluetooth devices :-) More here:
http://www.sdcard.org/
So, if it is any new HP calc is using SD cards, you could use any SD card
on the market. So, it don't mind how much Flash comes with the calc.
> I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
Time will tell the true, and I am waiting nervous to see what happens.
Best regards,
---
J.Manrique López de la Fuente
Users Club from Gijón
1077 HPCC Member
AsturLiNUX & HispaLiNUX Member
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Y'all have me worried now!
> Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio? That
> could account for the keys looking the same.
That's it! You guessed it!
> The power issue is what gets me the most. Does anybody know of a document
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
ARM9
> at 75MHz? I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
The running power equals Saturn, but how about the power savings mode?
Only true and pure CMOS can go really low frequency..
> Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
They usually operate at 206MHz, which explains the large current draw.
If then device is not using a 180nm, but 130nm then the Voltage is also low
I would guess 1.8V instead of 3V (or 5V). A future model could be even
lower.
* That is IF THIS IS * not a hoax
????
VPN
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:9HYWa.43811$Kb2.1...@news010.worldonline.dk...
> What would Eric Rechlin have to gain by composing and displaying an
> obviously false document - Thought Bush & co had the monopoly on that at
> present.
> Dave Holland
???
VPN
Camille
> "Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> > from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
> I
> > doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
> digits
> > long? Do you REALLY believe that?
>
> Must be either a marketing gimmec and thus a typo
> OR the whole thing is a fake and we all have been fooled (once again)
Funny: you really should believe that part, as even your good old HP48 had
this internal precision.
Example: #2A458h SYSEVAL gives you pi... (on the 48) with 15 digits precision.
#2B0F2h SYSEVAL gives you 10^10000.
You don't need that precision, but some functions you use need it to be exact
with 12 digits, +/-499 exponent.
Camille
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:b88deca7.03080...@posting.google.com...
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:<0PXWa.4297$HC4....@reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> > "Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > > A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
THIS SHOULD BE -499 to +499
It's not funny, Camille, it's a typo!
VPN
Harald Kipp
> Document's properties in Acrobat reader :
>
> Title : 49G+ Presentation
> Author : Eric Rechlin
>
> (Please note that I have no idea about this document being forged or
> not, it's just a thought)
>
It might have been converted from the original document,
which also does explain the overall poor quality of the
pdf.
Al Borowski
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
Wow, this is either legit or a very well planned hoax. Assuming the
calculator is real, it sounds fantastic! I'm relieved the CPU is
(supposedly) upgraded - that was my biggest complaint with the '49G.
I'm not really sure what the point of SD cards are though - I haven't
filled up my '49G yet. Then again an 75MHz CPU opens up more
possibilities (see below...)
For the rest of this post, I'm gonna pretend the calculator is real (I
hope it is!)
--------
Here are some unconventional (and not-so-serious) applications for it
(besides a maths monster):
*Low Speed CRO / Spectrum Analyiser - Add a PIC/HC11 and ADC, and you
have a cheap but useful instrument for the lab
*Logic Analyiser - Cheap tool for digital circuit analyises
*TV Remote Control - It supposedly has an IR port?
*Distributed.Net client - 'nuff said ;-)
*MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
cards.
*Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
driver...
*Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.
*High speed Datalogger. Add an ADC, and read\write write samples to
the SD card.
Can anyone add any more unconventional uses?
---
Note that most of these gadgets relay on external hardware. If the
calc had a serial port then interfacing it would be easy. IRDA is
annoying, because it needs line-of-sight. USB would be almost
impossible to use without information provided by HP (or the
designers, if HP didn't do anything itself).
***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
applications.***
It might work by having a byte wide port, and some control lines (like
the PC parallel port). Programs could then call 3rd party I/O commands
to talk to the port.
If the calculator was real, and UB interfacing details became public,
I'd have a go at designing it myself...
cheers,
Alistair
Thierry Morissette
(1) The h-e-double hockey stick with the French Court, as I'm sure you
agree.
(2) What I am not impressed about is that the two different types of keys
make the thing look so FAKE! I'd rather have 48-type keys, of course.
(3) I made such a long post because Mr. JYA incensed me with his remarks in
French. You're right, it's not polite to write in another language than the
one used by the -- vast -- majority. Still, it's his right. Here are the
translations:
"T'es lourd!": Never heard that one. Must be a French colloquialism. I could
translate as: "You're so thick!" or any other expression referring to my
difficulty at understanding even the simplest notions.
"Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme": "If you don't know anything, just shut
up!" or something like that.
Have a nice day. How do you say that in Finnish?
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:0PXWa.4297$HC4....@reader1.news.jippii.net...
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:27bf520c.03080...@posting.google.com...
X
> For the rest of this post, I'm gonna pretend the calculator is real (I
> hope it is!)
> --------
> *MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
> external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
> cards.
Not directly from HP 49G OS?
> *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> driver...
That requires SDIO slot, so I don't think so...
> *Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.
Hey! You're right!!!
X
> ***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
> interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
> that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
> applications.***
AND think about USB Flash, USB peripherals like camera, scanner, etc..
Oh, I wish this is true...
VPN - still somewhat sceptic
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Hello, VPN!
>
> (1) The h-e-double hockey stick with the French Court, as I'm sure you
> agree.
>
> (2) What I am not impressed about is that the two different types of keys
> make the thing look so FAKE! I'd rather have 48-type keys, of course.
>
> (3) I made such a long post because Mr. JYA incensed me with his remarks
in
> French. You're right, it's not polite to write in another language than
the
> one used by the -- vast -- majority. Still, it's his right. Here are the
> translations:
>
> "T'es lourd!": Never heard that one. Must be a French colloquialism. I
could
> translate as: "You're so thick!" or any other expression referring to my
> difficulty at understanding even the simplest notions.
Like "Midhead" from archie Bunker?! (-;
> "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme": "If you don't know anything, just
shut
> up!" or something like that.
That's Jean-Yves that. Ahh - that French attitude!
> Have a nice day. How do you say that in Finnish?
Hyvää päivän_jatkoa!
the _ is just to help the the following word-for-word translation:
(Good day's_continue)
VPN
PS: I love you both - actually I love you all
{maybe I just like Bhuv (-; }
Rich
In infinite wisdom Tennessee Tom answered:
> Y'all have me worried now!
>
> Isn't Kinpo Electronics a manufacturer of other brands, like Casio? That
> could account for the keys looking the same.
>
> The power issue is what gets me the most. Does anybody know of a document
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an ARM9
> at 75MHz? I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
It looks like there are three ARM9's.
http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM9_Thumb?OpenDocument
Looking at the middle version...
http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM922T?OpenDocument
Version Power (mW/MHz)
ARM920T 0.18µ 0.42
ARM920T 0.13µ 0.19
ARM922T 0.18µ 0.42
ARM922T 0.13µ 0.19
So at 75MHZ, with the 0.13, we get 9.75mW. With the 0.18 we get 31.5mW.
Here's the summary.
* ARM920T: Dual 16k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm OS,
Linux and Windows CE
* ARM922T: Dual 8k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm OS,
Linux and Windows CE
* ARM940T: Dual 4k caches for embedded control applications running a RTOS
I think the ARM920T an unlikely choice, and don't know if the ARM940T would
be suitable. The ARM922T would be my guess of the processor to be used (if
this is not a hoax).
The main difference seems to be that the 922T and 920T have MMU's, while the
940T does not. I doubt that a calculator would need an MMU though.
Rich
Wayne Brown
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
It appears to be at least marginally less ugly than the 49G, though it's
still pretty bad, and it still doesn't have a decent [ENTER] key. At
least it looks less video-game-ish than the 49G, so it wouldn't be quite
as embarrassing if my colleagues saw me with it...
--
Wayne Brown | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwb...@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give
| your pelt to the trapper."
"e^(i*pi) = -1" -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, "Silverlock"
Tennessee Tom
special,
>HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price that
>the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
Good one, it made me LOL! But, ironically, this speaks more of the HP I
knew and loved from the days of Bill and Dave (RIP). HP stood for "high
price" but you knew that you were getting a top quality product that would
do exactly what it was designed to do.
Once upon a time, when somebody asked me what computer to get, I said ,
"Just get an HP, and you know it will be high quality." I won't waste your
time elaborating on the HP of today.
Regards,
Tom
"Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Tennessee Tom
Out of curiosity, I tried the command: #2A458h SYSEVAL.
The 48G returns "Long Real" to the stack.
On the 49G, I got big, fat vertical bars and had to remove the batteries to
get the thing back to normal.
Is SYSEVAL something that us regular folks shouldn't try at home? If you
would care to elaborate on this, i'd be interested.
Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a user.
I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
more than 12 significant figures would be lost.
Regards,
Tom
"Camille" <camil...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.03080...@posting.google.com...
Dave h
Er, shouldn't that be only CMOS uses f* all current at very low frequencies?
Dave Holland
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgih51$ovk$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
Samuel Thibault
> gregor...@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message news:<8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com>...
Hum, I already thought about it for hp48/49 thanks to Usinagaz, but the
problem was the speed, indeed. with a native arm9 core, it could be
something, though :)
> *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> driver...
I bet merely rewriting linux' driver for instance (or even compile with
an arm9 cross-compiler ;) ) would work.
my $0.02,
Samuel Thibault
r. d. bärtschiger.
> Like "Midhead" from archie Bunker?! (-;
>
rdb.
Jean-Yves Avenard
"Wayne Brown" <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> so it wouldn't be quite as embarrassing if my colleagues saw me with it...
So sad ....
I pity you
Jean-Yves Avenard
<nhoasr...@egnite.de> wrote:
> It might have been converted from the original document,
> which also does explain the overall poor quality of the
> pdf.
Funny how people always find good explanation that things must be a hoax.
Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
hoax due to the bad photo quality.
I found the PDF file to be of very good quality, and it certainly looks
legit to me...
Jean-Yves
Jean-Yves Avenard
"Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote:
> Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So don't
> believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
I certainly know that, and that's why I wrote in French, so you understand
better than others.
I'm just bored of reading your constant bashing over the past few
months/years over the same points over and over. Which could have been
summarized at the end with: I won't believe it until I see it. Now you saw
it but you still find a way to keep bashing it..
I could have written something like get a life but I doubt I would have made
my point.
But again, I guess that you're thinking that by writing the same thing over
and over people will read you more and at the end will agree with you
Jean-Yves
John Miller
> Funny how people always find good explanation that things must be a hoax.
> Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
> hoax due to the bad photo quality.
There seem to be some folks on here who are ignoring the possibility --
however remote -- that they could have some serious crow to eat.
--
John Miller
Deprive a mirror of its silver and even the Czar won't see his face.
Tom Lake
> Like when the HP49G was originally announced. Everybody claimed it was a
> hoax due to the bad photo quality.
>
> I found the PDF file to be of very good quality, and it certainly looks
> legit to me...
I don't believe any respectable marketing group would describe the material
as simply, "Plastic". They'd have a fancier name for it such as
Thermoplastic or something.
Tom Lake
Al Arduengo
SYSEVAL is a command which executes the code located at the pointer you
provide to the command itself. Since the 48 and 49 have vastly
different rom layouts, it means you can rarely use the same address
between platforms even if the command names are the same. You can find
a cross reference on hpcalc.org that explains the differences as well as
shows how they are mapped between the two.
Best,
-Al
Thierry Morissette
And, no, I won't believe it until I see it! After all, HP had announced the
Expander, and I've never seen one. By the way, how many have been produced?
That product hasn't even been announced yet, and you want us to believe
blindly, as if you were writing some Gospel, that, since you say so, it will
come!
I don't. They don't. Prove us wrong!
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:BB531863.11B29%m...@privacy.net...
Tennessee Tom
Tom
"Al Arduengo" <ex...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:87llua7...@exal.austin.rr.com...
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Camille,
X
> Also, please explain how the internal exponent can be different from the
> external one, maybe giving an example of how this could effect me as a
user.
> I thought that the MAXR was 9.99999999999E499, which would mean that any
> more than 12 significant figures would be lost.
calculations.
And if the exponent range is more you don't "find" zero too early an you can
handle
bigger number before hitting the "infinity"
VPN
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
VPN
"r. d. bärtschiger." <rdb...@swissinfo.org> wrote in message
news:a5978f4c.03080...@posting.google.com...
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:C09Xa.729$Ee7...@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Gregorio Munoz <gregor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> > Here is the link:
> > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
>
> It appears to be at least marginally less ugly than the 49G, though it's
> still pretty bad, and it still doesn't have a decent [ENTER] key. At
How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
VPN
Al Borowski
> > *TV Remote Control - It supposedly has an IR port?
> Neat idea!
thanks, but its hardly my idea... (there must be dozens on HPcalc.org)
>
> > *MP3 Player - It should already have a piezo speaker, or add an
> > external DAC and amplifier for decent quality. Store the MP3's on SD
> > cards.
> Not directly from HP 49G OS?
Well, the average MP3 is 3.5mb, so I think SD storage would be
needed...
The problem is that the calc (assuming its not a hoax, I'm beginning
to think it is)) has only 512kb of RAM - nowhere near enough for a MP3
codec. I was thinking of a small box containing an MP3 chip and
amplifier what would plug into the USB port. That way, all the
calculator has to do is select the MP3, and write it to the player.
http://www.gigatechnology.com/othmodprod.html <-- very expensive, but
a decent concept
http://www.gigatechnology.com/chipprod.html has got
STA013 MP3 Decoder AU$20.00 and CS4334 24 bit Stereo Audio DAC AU$8.00
Add a PLD to receive the data + a headphone amplifier and you have an
MP3 player.
Naturally, this is only possible if someone figures out a way to make
the USB port read and write a single byte at once. Failing that it USB
decoding could be done with a Ubicom SX, but it would be extremely
dfficult.
>
> > *Wireless Network - Total stupidity on a calculator, but you can get
> > wireless cards in SD form factor. Now we just need someone to write a
> > driver...
> That requires SDIO slot, so I don't think so...
Even if it were possible, its totally pointless... It was meant as a
joke :-)
>
> > *Great games. Finally we can have HP-Doom.
> Hey! You're right!!!
> X
> > ***It would be *wonderful* if HP could release the details on the USB
> > interface. Then maybe someone could make a 'Parallel Breakout Box'
> > that plugs into the USB port, to provide bidirectional I/O for other
> > applications.***
>
> AND think about USB Flash, USB peripherals like camera, scanner, etc..
I don't like your chances of that happening. Bastardizing the USB port
to make it read/write a single byte at a time (like a RS232 or
parallel port) is probably feasible. Making the calculator act like a
USB host might well be impossible. Even if it could, you'd have to
write drivers for your USB flash, cameras, scanners etc. It's too much
work for not much gain. Why on earth would you want to hook a scanner
up to a calculator (you've got me curious)?
>
> Oh, I wish this is true...
> VPN - still somewhat sceptic
While I belive HP are making a new calculator (see the news on their
website) I don't think this is it. I'm beginning to think someone with
too much time on their hands has forged the PDF file.
Al
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:3F2D1A37...@somwehere.com...
X
It looks like there are three ARM9's.
http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM9_Thumb?OpenDocument
Looking at the middle version...
http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM922T?OpenDocument
Version Power (mW/MHz)
ARM920T 0.18µ 0.42
ARM920T 0.13µ 0.19
ARM922T 0.18µ 0.42
ARM922T 0.13µ 0.19
So at 75MHZ, with the 0.13, we get 9.75mW. With the 0.18 we get 31.5mW.
Here's the summary.
* ARM920T: Dual 16k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm
OS,
Linux and Windows CE
* ARM922T: Dual 8k caches for applications running Symbian OS, Palm OS,
Linux and Windows CE
* ARM940T: Dual 4k caches for embedded control applications running a
RTOS
I think the ARM920T an unlikely choice, and don't know if the ARM940T would
be suitable. The ARM922T would be my guess of the processor to be used (if
this is not a hoax).
The main difference seems to be that the 922T and 920T have MMU's, while the
940T does not. I doubt that a calculator would need an MMU though.
Rich
Which is cheapest, is the one that Carly would use...
I would use the one with lowest mW/MHz
VPN
Wayne Brown
You pity me because, in an office environment, I don't want to use a
device that looks like it was designed for those morons in the Mountain
Dew commercials?
I want my tools to *look* like serious tools -- to evoke images of lab
coats and test benches and engineering workshops, not weird-colored
hair, skateboards and body piercings. My 41CX, 16C and 48GX are right
at home on my desk next to my sleek, black, rectangular ThinkPad (I'm
glad IBM still has some sense of style). They even look good next to my
slide rules. A 49G would be completely out of place, though, as I said,
the 49G+ (if it exists) isn't quite as bad.
Wayne Brown
> How do you retain the wide ENTER in the middle and have the cursor
> working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
> VPN
I'd rather have the big [ENTER] key and do without the dedicated cursor
keys. It's not been a problem for me on my 48GX.
Dave Kung
It's interesting the 75MHz ARM9 processor of the HP49G+ is a little
bit faster than the Xpander's 66MHz Hitachi processor, which used 2 AA
batteries.
The HP49G+ is also using the smaller SD cards instead of compact
flash. $20-$30 buys you a 32MB SD card. Imagine adding 32MB to your HP
calculator! You'll NEVER use it up with the existing HP49G programs;
it's hard to fill up 1MB flash ROM even.
Dave
Camille
You could use the HP48 T-configuration of the cursor keys, to have
two more keys
X up X
left down right
(this kind of configuration seems to be old-fashioned...)
Anyway, people talk about decency (of the enter key) when it is just a
problem of habits.
(On my 48, I often used the space key instead of the enter key, so the
49's enter key was absolutely not a problem)
Camille
Camille
> Jean-Yves Avenard <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > On 3/8/03 16:30, in article C09Xa.729$Ee7...@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com,
> > "Wayne Brown" <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> You pity me because, in an office environment, I don't want to use a
> device that looks like it was designed for those morons in the Mountain
> Dew commercials?
>
> I want my tools to *look* like serious tools -- to evoke images of lab
> coats and test benches and engineering workshops, not weird-colored
> hair, skateboards and body piercings. My 41CX, 16C and 48GX are right
> at home on my desk next to my sleek, black, rectangular ThinkPad (I'm
> glad IBM still has some sense of style). They even look good next to my
> slide rules. A 49G would be completely out of place, though, as I said,
> the 49G+ (if it exists) isn't quite as bad.
If it is a good tool, it has its place. If you arrive at your office
with a red shirt, do you suddenly forget how to do your job (whatever
it is)?
And in respect of your points, the hp49G+ has simply a sober design.
So you could have been more enthousiastic, if it is the only thing you
care about.
The most important points about the exterior design are probably
- the keymap (which seems good)
- the feeling of the keys
- the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
(those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
not seen the calc yet.
And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
enter key is an issue ?
Camille
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<6DiXa.2616$Ee7....@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>...
> > Jean-Yves Avenard <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > On 3/8/03 16:30, in article C09Xa.729$Ee7...@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com,
> > > "Wayne Brown" <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> The most important points about the exterior design are probably
> - the keymap (which seems good)
> - the feeling of the keys
> - the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
> (those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
>
> we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
> not seen the calc yet.
> And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
> enter key is an issue ?
To me the |EVAL| and | ' | keys as standard keys are more important
The colors on the case and keys do matter as long as readability is
concerned
and I also do like more "Champagne" (a car color similar to 49G+ case color)
than the "Frozen Hamster Butt"
Feeling of the keys is the *most* important, even KEY factor to me
Veli-Pekka
PS: By adding two those new narrow keys beside the cursor keys
they could have squeezed in a large ENTER key into it's original place
Some keys need to be relocated then. like 1/X,
10^x. LOG, ABS, ARG (OR <, > =...)
VPN
Ben Moss
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/08/04/1115228.shtml?tid=137&tid=173&tid=184&tid=187
It just refers to the hpcalc.org page on the new 49, but some of you
might find it of interest.
Regards,
-Ben M.
Wayne Brown
> If it is a good tool, it has its place. If you arrive at your office
> with a red shirt, do you suddenly forget how to do your job (whatever
> it is)?
I'm a programmer/Unix systems administrator.
And no, a red shirt wouldn't keep me from doing my job, but if it was
garish and distracting then I would be embarrassed to be seen in it.
I prefer shirts (and calculators, and everything else) that are quiet,
understated, and don't attract attention.
> And in respect of your points, the hp49G+ has simply a sober design.
> So you could have been more enthousiastic, if it is the only thing you
> care about.
If the picture is accurate, it isn't sober. I don't see how anything
with a gold faceplate could be called "sober." A black faceplate with
white lettering -- and straight clean lines, rather than those stupid
curves -- now, that would be both attractive and dignified.
Have you ever seen an HP-41C or HP-16C? If not, look at these:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/3qs/41c3q.jpg
http://www.hpmuseum.org/16.jpg
Those are, as far as I'm concerned, the most beautiful calculators
ever made. The 16C is especially nice; in fact the whole Voyager
series is attractive, though I've never cared much for the 12C (which
has a gold bezel in place of the 16C's silver bezel, as well as being a
financial rather than scientific model). I really wish HP had kept the
48SX color scheme for the 48GX, because it's much more like that of the
41C and 16C. I consider the 48GX appearance acceptable but not in the
same class as the older machines. The 49G is absolutely unacceptable --
both the shape and the colors are too flashy, "trendy," and ostentatious.
> The most important points about the exterior design are probably
> - the keymap (which seems good)
> - the feeling of the keys
> - the quality of the screen (contrast, reflection...)
> (those points seem much more important than the color of the calc)
At least the keys are supposed to be plastic, which automatically makes
them better. I'd prefer 41-style rather than 48-style keys, but this
is a step in the right direction. I won't buy a calculator with rubber
keys, no matter how good the rest of it is.
> we can't discuss the last two points as the vast majority of us has
> not seen the calc yet.
> And for the key map, who can seriously say the position/size of the
> enter key is an issue ?
I can -- it's a very serious issue for me. Partly it's because the size
and position of the larger key make it easier to find without looking at
the keyboard; but a large part of the issue for me is philosophical.
That large [ENTER] key says loud and clear, "I'm an RPN machine!"
There was a time when HP made no apologies for RPN. Their attitude was,
"Our calculators are different because they're superior; we don't *want*
to be like everyone else. Algebraic entry is for people who aren't
discerning enough to appreciate RPN." It's been a long time since I
saw an HP advertisement with that kind of attitude.
The shrunken [ENTER] key is just another sign that RPN has been demoted
to the same status as algebraic entry. I think it's insulting to the
designers of the earlier machines. The big [ENTER] key has been a
feature of every HP RPN handheld from the HP-35 to the 48. What right
did the 49 designers have to second-guess the engineers who INVENTED
handheld scientific calculators?!
Wayne Brown
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message news:<bgk8hk$8bv$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>...
>>
>> working in the alpha mode, too (no letters on cursor keys) ???
>> VPN
> You could use the HP48 T-configuration of the cursor keys, to have
> two more keys
> X up X
> left down right
> (this kind of configuration seems to be old-fashioned...)
I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
left down up right
since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works. But the position
of the cursor keys isn't a big deal for me, as long as they are the same
size/shape as the other keys and don't stand out from the rest.
BTW, when it comes to HP technology, "old-fashioned" usually means
"better."
Brad Bishop
well-built HP41CV and even my HP48 SX will be around long after most of
these HP49 calcs have died off. The point being that people still use their
HP41s (20+ years later) and HP48s (10+ year later) but the HP49 series looks
like a throwaway item. There will be die-hard collectors, certainly, but
they don't look like they will be cherished like the older series.
Brad
EShore
For the record, I own a HP-48G, HP48GX, and a HP-9G (the 9 has no
calculus functions. >;|) It took me a bit to get used the 48 keys,
but no problem.
The TI-36X has a very busy keyboard and I understand you know that I
realize the TI's keys are lighter. There are several RPN programs for
the TI-89 series (89, 92+, V200) but I don't think anything extensive
(I'll check).
<<It's just that if I wanted a TI calculator, I'd buy one from TI,
not HP.>>
OK I won't. :)
"Tennessee Tom" <ho...@tonkin.com> wrote in message news:<YyQWa.10125$NY6....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
> > had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
>
> Oops!! Sorry, I didn't know we had any TI owners here. I didn't mean to
> offend. It's just that if I wanted a TI calculator, I'd buy one from TI,
> not HP.
>
> RPN is slowly being put out to pasture, that's my primary complaint. If TI
> came out with a true RPN calculator, I'd probably buy one (but don't tell
> anybody).
>
> I do own a TI-36X solar that was purchased to take exams where fancy
> calculators were restricted. I did that because I refused to buy an "HP"
> that had algebraic input. Any trouble I had was not from switching to
> algebraic, it was from miskeys with the relatively softer keys, with which I
> was unaccustomed (how's that?).
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> "EShore" <eddies...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cf3f4946.03080...@posting.google.com...
> > Upon the seeing the link:
> > 1) Nice colors, keyboard is less cluttered than the original HP49.
> > 2) X-Root function (the #1 complaint from the TI users of the 89)
> > 3) Hopefull the SD cards will be affordable.
> > 4) I like the USB port, HP has stepped into the new century.
> >
> > On a side note, as an owner of 14 TI calculators, I never remembered
> > had one with rubbery, mushy keys.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Tennessee Tom" <ho...@tonkin.com> wrote in message
> news:<Q3MWa.8946$u_3....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > > YAY!!!!:
> > >
> > > 1) The "apostrophe" and "EVAL" keys are back (where they belong) as a
> > > primary keys.
> > > 2) 75MHz!?!? I hope the batteries last.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BOOOO!!!:
> > >
> > > 1) That damned "HIST" key is a waste. Only there to make algebraic mode
> > > work like the vastly superior RPN.
> > > 2) Why not print the "SWAP" "VIEW" "PICTURE" and "STACK" functions where
> > > they belong? This must also be to cater to the algebraic mode?
> > >
> > >
> > > But, as long as the keys are not loose and mushy, like a TI, I'm
> probably
> > > gonna get me one!
> > >
> > > Tennessee Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Gregorio Munoz" <gregor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com...
Cyrille de Brébisson
"Tennessee Tom" <ho...@tonkin.com> wrote in message
news:eeYWa.17749$xC4....@news02.roc.ny...
> Y'all have me worried now!
>
> The power issue is what gets me the most. Does anybody know of a document
> for the ARM processor where one could find the power consumption of an
ARM9
> at 75MHz? I did some looking, and was unable to find power data.
>
> Are there any other handheld devices that use the ARM9 at 75MHz?
What you need to realize is that ARM company does not make CPU (or only in a
very limited way), their business model is to licence the CORE CPU to other
company so they can include them in their chips.
The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
- custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
(automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple of
ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
- general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung, mitsubishi,
Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company create
a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
(feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification), with
specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU, then,
once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly anything
to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
Tennessee Tom
the basic scientific functions. I actually use it from time to time (when
the 49G is out of reach). I've heard of those RPN programs for the TI89,
maybe I'll get one of my TI-owning friends to let me try it out. Still, I
couldn't see myself owning a TI-89, because there is a perpetual (but
friendly) "HP vs TI" war going on between myself and some friends. If I
bought a TI89, I'd never hear the end of it!!!
Lately, I'm thinking that I will just sit and have faith for the Hydrix to
become available.
Sam Hughes
news:8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com:
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
I do not understand why the second and third row would have such small
keys, with the arrow keys occupying one half of the keyboard's width.
Those two rows have keys small enough for there to be six keys of that size
in a row. Why the arrow keys are not moved over so that there can be four
keys (and then the arrow keys) in that row is beyond me.
For that matter, key rows four, five, and six could have six keys in each
row, too, by making all keys that size. At any rate, I would at the very
least rather have rows two and three have the same horizontal proportions
as they do on the 49G. But, if they were to have four keys in those rows
(plus the arrow keys), they could have a 48-style ENTER key, with the four
basic arithmetic operators moved downward, so that the alpha keyboard does
not have the Z on the division key, still allowing the use of the arrow
keys.
It looks like the menu keys are more reachable than on the 49G, with the
arrow keys not taking up so much vertical space.
I hope that this is a hoax, though, because there could be many
improvements on the design shown in that jpeg.
Tennessee Tom
original intent was to focus on the 75 MHz core CPU, since I don't know the
power consumption of the other parts. If the core CPU, by itself, had power
consumption that was impractical for 3 AAA batteries, it wouldn't matter
what else was in it. We would then have evidence that the document was
false (I believe it is real).
Regards,
Tom
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <cyr...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2ec304$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
Bruce Horrocks
<ho...@tonkin.com> writes
>Once upon a time, when somebody asked me what computer to get, I said ,
>"Just get an HP, and you know it will be high quality." I won't waste
>your time elaborating on the HP of today.
Computers aside, I'm willing to bet that there will be a healthy trade
in HP49Gs on eBay (or its descendants) in 20 years time just as there
are HP-41s and older models trading today.
Regards,
--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
<firstname>@<surname>.plus.com -- fix the obvious for email
Dave h
similar.
The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms of
interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
great advantage.
If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little - well
maybe not red with white spots.
"Wayne Brown" <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fAvXa.4521$C77...@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
Dave h
slightly worse interface. But in terms of doing the job they were designed
to do - compute engineering equations etc - I think they're much better than
the 48.
From the FAQ:
"100!*100!, which takes about 16 seconds to calculate with full precision on
a 48 with ALG48, takes about 1.5 seconds on an HP49. "
Thats over ten times faster - I rest my case.
Dave Holland
"Brad Bishop" <bsbi...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bgm81...@enews3.newsguy.com...
BlackLotus
"Dave h" <km...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de
news:gYBXa.45384$Kb2.1...@news010.worldonline.dk...
> You're using a model that is designed to solve engineering problems and
> similar.
> The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms
of
> interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
> easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
> great advantage.
> If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little -
well
> maybe not red with white spots.
But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If they
keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold, it
would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson running
the 200m.
Bhuvanesh
> I love you both - actually I love you all
> {maybe I just like Bhuv (-; }
To me, that's actually a compliment :-) Let's see how long you can like me...
--
Bhuvanesh
Thierry Morissette
"Dave h" <km...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:V3CXa.45385$Kb2.1...@news010.worldonline.dk...
G Savage
"BlackLotus" <black...@nospam.me> wrote in message
news:bgmrfd$occ$1...@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr...
>
[snip]
> But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If
they
> keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold,
it
> would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson
running
> the 200m.
The gold color (or colour) could be inspired by JYA's gold 49G. Thanks
goodness the color of the lettering seems to be a lot more legible
regardless of the color (or colour) scheme (and whether you like it or not).
For our giggles, some brash person needs to coin something comparable to
"frozen hamster butt blue" for this new one.
I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell? IMO, I have a high
regard for the design and quality of the "fit and finish" (production
quality) of the old HP's from a more functional perspective, but I also
think that some aspects of the industrial design of the older models is very
dated and dorky. Also, some models like the 41, have flat key faces that
produce glare under some lighting conditions and become hard to read.
Nothing is perfect.
Greg S
Tom Sears
> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
>
> left down up right
>
> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.
Hi Wayne,
LOL. I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup! I think
"left up down right" would be more better though. ha.
I'm starting to find this new calculator rumor more believable. The HP
site said there would be more calculators coming this year, and Eric's
site has always been a credible source of information.
The brushed "champaign" color seems okay to me and the lettering appears
to have good contrast. (Remember the "dignified" lilac and turquoise
lettering on the 48G?)
Regards,
Tom
BlackLotus
> But honestly, I agree with the fact that gold is just... misplaced. If
they
> keep the same general design but use gray/silver colors instead of gold,
it
> would look way more "show-off" than gold. Gold reminds me of Johnson
running
> the 200m.
It should read "would look way less". Silly me.
Jean-Yves Avenard
<sav...@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this model
> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell? IMO, I have a high
known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
Jean-Yves
Roumen Mollov
such? Too bad.
I can't understand other calculator fans presence here. HP is the greatest.
Tennessee Tom
"Roumen Mollov" <rmo...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f2f...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Ville Koskinen
> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true.
> Here is the link:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
Speculation:
-If there is a saturn-emulation in this machine, will it be
upgradable, as 49's rom is?
-A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
port compilers, Linux etc.?
Regards,
Ville Koskinen
J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente
> gregor...@yahoo.com (Gregorio Munoz) wrote in message
> news:<8dffa42e.03080...@posting.google.com>...
>> I don't belive! May be all rumors are true. Here is the link:
>> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php
>
> Speculation:
> -If there is a saturn-emulation in this machine, will it be upgradable,
> as 49's rom is?
If it is a Saturn emulation, like emu48 does, then it should be as easy as
copying a file, the ROM, to it.
> -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> port compilers, Linux etc.?
That would be interesting, seeing Linux on a device like that. Isn't HP
who is saying in all Linux conferences that Linux is part of its strategy,
and every device is Linux compatible, and all computers can run Linux, and
bla, bla, bla...
If it is true, it looks like a great hacking device :-)
--
J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente
Users Club from Gijón
1077 HPCC Member
AsturLiNUX & HispaLiNUX Member
Samuel Thibault
> -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> port compilers, Linux etc.?
As I already posted:
$ ls -d /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
/usr/src/linux/arch/arm
The port to the processor is already done, you only need an arm
cross-compiler, which I think gcc supports.
Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
subarch :)
Cheers,
Samuel Thibault
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Thanks for that info, it's good to learn more about these things. My
> original intent was to focus on the 75 MHz core CPU, since I don't know
the
> power consumption of the other parts. If the core CPU, by itself, had
power
> consumption that was impractical for 3 AAA batteries, it wouldn't matter
> "Cyrille de Brébisson" <cyr...@hp.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2ec304$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> > now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
> create
> > a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> > (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
> with
> > specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
> >
> > All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU,
then,
> > once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> > periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
> anything
> > to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
There are (at least) five different states of power consumptions
A) Coma Mode - even the clock is stopped, RAM is always supported
B) Power off - also I/O, display, Flash, etc.. are off,
|ON| interrupt needs some power, RAM is preserved
C) Power off and waiting for key in light sleep.
* This is where the problem might be *
D) Running a program
E) doing fast I/O and/or Flash Write
Running a program is no problem because if it takes twice the energy
but completes twice as fast the energy sucked from the AAA*3 is the same.
Also if everything if off, there is not much power used, but C) worries me.
Is the ARM & new HW able to stay in light sleep and use minimal current
the say way the old & slow Saturn did - if not - then I wan't to use
rechargeables.
VPN - more speculations later, I really don't know about the HW
neither am I any kind of expert on the subject,
but I have read all the old 48 documents and I'm not sure about the
power consumption of ARM9 & other needed HW
PS: I'm starting to believe this is a true calculator
and if it is, it will be the best product ever by HP or anybody else.
why it is not called HP 58GX ??
RM
calculator fans. Don't even think about putting yourself next to JYA.Who are
you, buddy? What's that puts you where you think you are? Tell us what
you've done. Don't be so modest.
"Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5eWWa.1775$Ji1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I reserve the right to express my opinion AS I want, WHEN I want, and
> DESPITE anyone else's opinion.
>
> I have seen the picture. I repeat: I AM NOT IMPRESSED!
>
> I am also very skeptical. The keyboard, for one thing, doesn't add up. F1
to
> F6 look like the 49's rubber keys, so do the keys below the arrow keys,
but
> the keys at the side of that arrow keys look like 48's plastic keys. So
> which one is it?
>
> A 75 MHz processor? How many times a week will I have to change the
> batteries?
>
> A displayed exponent from -4999 to +4999, but an internal exponent
> from -49999 to +49999? Really? Why the discrepancy? IF that is true, which
I
> doubt, when will I use it? When do I need to calculate numbers 50000
digits
> long? Do you REALLY believe that?
>
> What ELSE is there (beside the SD port which will nodoubt require a
special,
> HP-only SD card, available from selected dealers for the kind of price
that
> the new exponent capabilities have probably been built for)?
>
> I don't even believe it! Why should I be impressed?
>
> Or do you know something we don't? If not, Mr. Frenchman, I return your
> compliment to you! And, by the way, I read, speak and write French. So
don't
> believe for an instant that your comments have gone unnoticed.
>
>
> "Jean-Yves Avenard" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:BB51DB69.11AEB%m...@privacy.net...
> > On 2/8/03 17:22, in article
_GQWa.11474$Cx4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com,
> > "Thierry Morissette" <th...@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Kinpo Electronics? What's that?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the link. I am NOT impressed, however.
> >
> > In French I would say: "T'es lourd!"
> >
> > You're not impressed and you haven't even seen this new calculator...
> Always
> > talking rubbish without any actual knowledge of what things are..
> > Or I would say "Quand on ne sait pas, on la ferme"
> >
> > Jean-Yves
> >
>
>
Erwann ABALEA
> VPN - more speculations later, I really don't know about the HW
> neither am I any kind of expert on the subject,
> but I have read all the old 48 documents and I'm not sure about the
> power consumption of ARM9 & other needed HW
ARMx (where x < 10) are very power efficient, by design. ARM10 (StrongARM)
can go much faster, but also is more power hungry.
> PS: I'm starting to believe this is a true calculator
> and if it is, it will be the best product ever by HP or anybody else.
> why it is not called HP 58GX ??
Optimistic answer: to keep place for future improvement ;)
--
Erwann ABALEA <erw...@abalea.com> - RSA PGP Key ID: 0x2D0EABD5
-----
Et, en passant, sachez tout de même que Sacha a dit une sacré
dose de conneries à mon égard. La plus savoureuse est qu'il me prend
pour une victime, alors que je suis un GAGNANT.
-+- AB in GNU : Neuneu gagne surtout à ne pas être connu. -+-
RM
Tennessee Tom
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgob22$1of$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
Thanks VPN. Even if we don't know the details, at least we have some
confidence that the 75MHz ARM is not an unrealistic CPU.
Tom
Bhuvanesh
> HP is the greatest.
LOL! How childish. Or was that meant as a joke?
--
Bhuvanesh
Thierry Morissette
post ...
"RM" <rmo...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f2f...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
G Savage
the 1980's and we used to design Nokia phones in addition to Compaq
computers and other things.
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:BB554579.11BB3%m...@privacy.net...
Cyrille de Brébisson
> > -A related question is - will it be possible to write programs in
> > processor's own machine language? If so - wouldn't it be possible to
> > port compilers, Linux etc.?
>
> As I already posted:
>
> $ ls -d /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
> /usr/src/linux/arch/arm
>
> The port to the processor is already done, you only need an arm
> cross-compiler, which I think gcc supports.
>
> Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> subarch :)
Well, that is a bit of an over simplification....
There is a big diference between a processor Core and a system or
architecture.
let me explain. The processor core includes (more or less) the thing that
executes instuction, the MMU (in some cases, including the ARM case), and
the supervisor uers and other type of modes.
All the rest is highly dependant upon the implementation of that core in an
architecture. For example, on PC, that architecture is mainly the "chipset"
architecture, and fortunately, all chipset are similar, however, on other
architectures (like ARM), lots of diferent architectures do exist. This
means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)
Another thing that you can do is compile a linux kernel for ARM and see how
big that kernel is...
regards, cyrille
Wayne Brown
> You're using a model that is designed to solve engineering problems and
> similar.
> The ability to compute (and graph) equations is paramount, both in terms of
> interface, speed and of course final result. The fact that its relatively
> easy to write SysRPL means much of the legwork can be automated - another
> great advantage.
> If its the best calculator in those regards appearance matters little - well
> maybe not red with white spots.
So if the appearance doesn't matter, then why did HP feel a need to
change it? Why not keep making calculators that look just like the old
ones, but with improved internals?
I've never understood why HP insists on *removing* good features (like
the older keyboards) when they add new features (like a faster processor
or better software).
Wayne Brown
That explains a *lot*. Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).
Wayne Brown
>> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
>>
>> left down up right
>>
>> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.
> Hi Wayne,
> LOL. I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup! I think
> "left up down right" would be more better though. ha.
I really wouldn't expect most people to like my suggested arrangement,
but the 48's arrangement is fine with me. Your suggestion would really
confuse me; I'd be getting "up" and "down" mixed up all the time! :-)
> I'm starting to find this new calculator rumor more believable. The HP
> site said there would be more calculators coming this year, and Eric's
> site has always been a credible source of information.
Yes, I'd be inclined to dismiss the whole thing as a hoax if it wasn't
coming from Eric. But I trust him not to trick us deliberately, and I
doubt anyone could trick him into passing along a hoax to the rest of us.
> The brushed "champaign" color seems okay to me and the lettering appears
> to have good contrast. (Remember the "dignified" lilac and turquoise
> lettering on the 48G?)
I'm not very fond of the lilac and turquoise either. The 48G colors are
much less attractive than those of the 48S. However, I'm willing to put
up with them in order to get the G-series improvements. That's where I
draw the line, though. The 49G isn't enough of an improvement over the
48GX + MetaKernel + Erable to be worth putting up with the all of the
"de-improvements." As for the 49G+ -- maybe. I'll have to wait and see.
Tennessee Tom
If you don't mind, I have a few more questions on the ARM cores::
In your text, you referred to "ARM cpu and lots of other periferials" and
also "CPU with the ARM CORE". What I still find confusing is what defines a
'peripheral' in this context, because 'peripheral' is a pretty broad term.
To me, there is a gray area of what lies between the ARM core (which I
believe is the ALU) and the obvious peripherals, such as RAM, ROM, and LCD.
I think the term 'CPU' is maybe being used too loosely.
If I am a big manufacturer, WITH a complete foundry and design staff, and I
want to use the ARM9 core for my new calculator, what does the ARM company
sell me? Do I just get the license and photomask materials to legally
manufacture an IC using their DESIGN?
Best regards,
Tom
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <cyr...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f2ec304$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> The core CPU can run at more or less any speed, this is decided by the
> company that includes the ARM CORE in their silicone.
>
> so, you have 2 type of usage of the ARM cores:
> - custom build CPU/microcontrolers usually used in embeded applications
> (automotive, Hard Drive controlers (you probably have at least a couple of
> ARMS in your PC), auto radio, MP3 players...)
> - general purpose CPU created by company like philips, Samsung,
mitsubishi,
> Intel... that include an ARM cpu and lots of other periferials.
>
> now, this is where power consumption starts to kick in, these company
create
> a CPU with the ARM core, but, it creates it on a specific technology
> (feature size (.13, .18, .25 ...), material and voltage specification),
with
> specific speeds and with specific extra functionality.
>
> All these things do add up to create the power consumption of a CPU, then,
> once you add the power used by the memory, LCD and other out of CPU
> periferial, the total power consumption of your device has seldomly
anything
> to do with the power consumption of the CORE CPU.
>
> regards, cyrille (never speaking for HP when speaking, or writing)
>
>
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> First tell me who YOU are, Mister "RM". At least I use my full name when I
> post ...
"Richard Mollov"
VPN=Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
BTW(By The Way) JYA=Jean-Yves Avenard, CdB=Cyrille de Brebisson
Is that zero-killed with you THM?
(OK=0K=zero killed=a successful military mission, no one got killed, but
enemy)
EOF
Post Scriptum: nack it off, boys, this NG is for the toys
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
X
> > Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> > subarch :)
>
> Well, that is a bit of an over simplification....
> There is a big diference between a processor Core and a system or
> architecture.
> let me explain. The processor core includes (more or less) the thing that
> executes instuction, the MMU (in some cases, including the ARM case), and
> the supervisor uers and other type of modes.
> All the rest is highly dependant upon the implementation of that core in
an
> architecture. For example, on PC, that architecture is mainly the
"chipset"
> architecture, and fortunately, all chipset are similar, however, on other
> architectures (like ARM), lots of diferent architectures do exist. This
> means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
> architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
> 1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)
>
> Another thing that you can do is compile a linux kernel for ARM and see
how
> big that kernel is...
How big is it then, Cyrille?
If the thing is real, will you , please, persuade the HP calc cheff
to make a detailed HW info available to all of us.
I would love to read a HP Journal Article....like in the good old days
Oh, the days of the forty-one...and even the 48SX-GX, 38G
VPN
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:NGSXa.596$ta2...@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Jean-Yves Avenard <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > On 4/8/03 22:06, in article bgn6ul$1rl$1...@quark.scn.rain.com, "G Savage"
> > <sav...@mtangelz.net> wrote:
> >> I am also very curious to know who did the industrial design for this
model
> >> and the old one (49G) as well -- can anybody tell? IMO, I have a high
> > The 49G (don't know about the 49G+) was designed by Seymour-Powell very
well
> > known industrial design company (they did most of the nokia phones)
>
> That explains a *lot*. Nokia phones are among the ugliest devices I've
> ever seen (although most other cell phones aren't much better).
the Nokia phones sell out everything else on the race.
Some don't like them - that's why the other companies are still around.
Otherwise we were all Nokia
I have a City-Phones (1800MHz only: Motorola, Nokia, Siemens)
Of which the Nokia is the smallest one.
Then I have 900/1800MHz phones, Nokia and Erisson
Most I like my Matrix-Nokia 7110, with Roller key
I would love to see that roller in a HP calc
VPN
Thierry Morissette
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message
news:bgp74j$mj1$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
Samuel Thibault
Le mar 05 aoű 2003 11:10:53 GMT, Cyrille de Brébisson a tapoté sur son clavier :
> > Then, if the calc is released, we'll merely have to add the 49gplus
> > subarch :)
>
> <snip>
>
> This means that you will need to do a "sub-port" of the main arm linux
> architecture to the specific architecture that you are working with (SA
> 1100, XScale, Samsung, philips...)
Yes, that's precisely what the word subarch means in the linux kernel,
if I remember well. Of course, it will require the extra information
that firms don't give to their end users, etc... 'merely' was actually a
bit ironic :)
Regards,
Samuel Thibault
Cyrille de Brébisson
> Tom Sears <tomRE...@socketsmo.netve> wrote:
>
> >> I'd really prefer to have all the cursor keys in a single line:
> >>
> >> left down up right
> >>
> >> since that's the way my favorite editor (vi) works.
>
> > Hi Wayne,
>
> > LOL. I bet that would be really popular in the newsgroup! I think
> > "left up down right" would be more better though. ha.
>
> I really wouldn't expect most people to like my suggested arrangement,
> but the 48's arrangement is fine with me. Your suggestion would really
> confuse me; I'd be getting "up" and "down" mixed up all the time! :-)
Looks like a good idea! and in addition, I propose that we label these keys
with the convinient following letters:
H J K L (but obviously, these keys would be different from the H J K and L
alpha keys :-)
what do you think about that!
regards, cyrille