An observation about perfect pitch
Lyudmila
etc., yet, I claim that I do know exactly what note it is, and, I can
prove it by humming the very note without any 'hunting' for the correct
pitch. If I can produce the correct pitch, and I can, then, I must know
it. Still, I can't name the pitch. Summing up, if I hear any pitch, I
immediately know what the pitch is, and, I can adjust my vocal cords to
produce the exact frequency, however, I can't name the pitch. So, perfect
pitch is not the ability to know what a heard note is, but, the ability to
name it. Weird.
Kevin Van Sant
It would seem that what you are saying is that you can mimic a given
pitch. It's a little bit like relative pitch but not precisely the
way you describe it. But in any event if you are a singer, your skill
will certainly serve you well. (And those who would play with you)
Ir. Erich Kohlhöfer, South Africa
Someone can play any note for me on the piano. I can then weeks or even
months later figure out which note was played by playing a few notes
until I hit the right one. I have no idea which note it is and I don't
play the piano.
The same goes for the first few notes of any melody. Months later I can
come back and figure out very quickly how it started. Not just the
intervals between the notes but the exact keys on yhe piano.
Erich
Stephen Provizer
Perfect pitch is the ability to hear the note BEFORE it's sounded
and associate it with its proper name( "C#" for example).
Steve P.
Lyudmila (lyud...@aol.com) wrote:
: I cannot hear a note and tell you what it is, that is, an 'A' or a 'B',
: etc., yet, I claim that I do know exactly what note it is, and, I can
: prove it by humming the very note without any 'hunting' for the correct
: pitch. If I can produce the correct pitch, and I can, then, I must know
: it. Still, I can't name the pitch. Summing up, if I hear any pitch, I
: immediately know what the pitch is, and, I can adjust my vocal cords to
: produce the exact frequency, however, I can't name the pitch. So, perfect
: pitch is not the ability to know what a heard note is, but, the ability to
: name it. Weird.
--
Chuck Ross
<10034...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>Lyudmila said:
><<I can prove it by humming the very note without any 'hunting' for
>the correct pitch. If I can produce the correct pitch, and I can,
>then, I must know it. Still, I can't name the pitch. Summing up,
>if I hear any pitch, I immediately know what the pitch is, and, I
>can adjust my vocal cords to produce the exact frequency, however, I
>can't name the pitch. So, perfect pitch is not the ability to know
>what a heard note is, but, the ability to name it. Weird.>>
>
>I think what you have described is just the ability to reproduce a
>note after you've heard it. My understanding of perfect pitch is
>that it is more than that... for example, if someone sings you a
>song, then sings the song later that day but pitched a little
>differently, you would be able to say "Hey, earlier you started on
>*this* note" and then sing that note. I know someone with perfect
>pitch who can hear if an instrument is tuned just a little bit
>differently than on another occasion; who hears all the little
>imprecisions of tuning in an ensemble. I think having perfect pitch
>is not just being able to say "that note is an A", but, having heard
>a note and put a name to it, to perceive that note with its name
>mentally the same way we can see a color in our mind's eye and know
>that it is red or blue. We can close our eyes and see red and know
>it is called red. Someone with perfect pitch can think of a note,
>how it sounds, and know what note it is. (Just my impression, I
>don't have perfect pitch myself.)
Perfect pitch is not the simple ability to reproduce a note or tone after
you've heard it, it's a lot more than that, and it's in the same realm as
people who can do mental tricks with numbers that would stun an electronic
calculator. You're born with it; it can't be acquired, and training won't
help, except that you _can_ develop good *relative* pitch by training.
I knew a woman with perfect pitch. You could sit down at a piano and
play a chord with as many notes as you wanted, any combination of notes,
ten, if your fingers could to it, and she would proceed to name each and
every note you played while facing in another direction.
Toscanini, it's said, when given a magnificent phonograph system by
RCA, begged them to take it back because he couldn't stand listening
to it's off-pitch turntable. They fixed it, of course....it was off
by perhaps an eighth of a tone.
_____________________________________________________________________
Chuck Ross South Holland, IL KC9FL ckr...@wwa.com
Marc Sabatella
> Perfect pitch is not the simple ability to reproduce a note or tone after
> you've heard it, it's a lot more than that, and it's in the same realm as
> people who can do mental tricks with numbers that would stun an electronic
> calculator. You're born with it; it can't be acquired, and training won't
> help, except that you _can_ develop good *relative* pitch by training.
David Burge would insist you *can* learn perfect pitch. Opinions of those who
have taken his course vary, but the guy *is* for real.
--
Marc Sabatella
--
ma...@fc.hp.com
http://www.fortnet.org/~marc/
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Tom Storer
<<I can prove it by humming the very note without any 'hunting' for
the correct pitch. If I can produce the correct pitch, and I can,
then, I must know it. Still, I can't name the pitch. Summing up,
if I hear any pitch, I immediately know what the pitch is, and, I
can adjust my vocal cords to produce the exact frequency, however, I
can't name the pitch. So, perfect pitch is not the ability to know
what a heard note is, but, the ability to name it. Weird.>>
I think what you have described is just the ability to reproduce a
note after you've heard it. My understanding of perfect pitch is
that it is more than that... for example, if someone sings you a
song, then sings the song later that day but pitched a little
differently, you would be able to say "Hey, earlier you started on
*this* note" and then sing that note. I know someone with perfect
pitch who can hear if an instrument is tuned just a little bit
differently than on another occasion; who hears all the little
imprecisions of tuning in an ensemble. I think having perfect pitch
is not just being able to say "that note is an A", but, having heard
a note and put a name to it, to perceive that note with its name
mentally the same way we can see a color in our mind's eye and know
that it is red or blue. We can close our eyes and see red and know
it is called red. Someone with perfect pitch can think of a note,
how it sounds, and know what note it is. (Just my impression, I
don't have perfect pitch myself.)
--
"Le jazz, c'est comme les bananes - ca se consomme sur place."
Sartre
GJuke
"relative pitch"; and by DEFINITION, you DO NOT have "perfect pitch".
But you can call it what you want, as long as you don't sound like Yoko
Ono or David Hasselhoff.
GJ
JFinn26231
about any four or five year old child can do this . I do not know about
the rest of you , but I am somewhat offended that anyone would
trivialize the ability to perceive music in this particular
uninformed , primative and distastefull fashion. The gift of perfect
pitch is too dear. Weird? No . Ignorant? At least that.....
Huw Coxon
>produce the exact frequency, however, I can't name the pitch. So, perfect
>pitch is not the ability to know what a heard note is, but, the ability to
>name it. Weird.
No. You're making these two things mutually exclusive - perfect pitch has to
be the ability to know what a heard note is AND the ability to name it,
because you can't communicate anything until you've understood it.
I've been told that you can learn perfect pitch. Apparently its a continuous
trial and error thing. Say the name of the note to yourself, hum it and then
play it on a piano (that's in tune). My sax teacher has an annoying habit of
naming the notes of sounds in everyday life. The words 'git' and 'dammned'
spring to mind, not necessarily in that order.
If I can name a note it's usually once every twelve notes or so (on average)...
--
'A freudian slip is when you say one thing, but mean your mother'
Benjamin Smith
notes, and I can sing them without hearing them first. I say almost
because some days I'm off or flat. So it's an imperfect perfect pitch,
which is just how I like it.
I think excellent relative pitch is virtually as valuable as perfect
pitch so I think having perfect pitch is not as helpful as someone who
understands what they are hearing. A person with well developed relative
pitch can tell type of chords (ternary, quaterny), progressions, extended
and altered harmonies, types of modulations and need only determine the
starting pitch or chord.
Ben Smith
Lyudmila
can. This doesn't constitute perfect pitch, but, it has nothing to do
with relative pitch, that is, naming the intervals between notes. Here's
my point, when I and most people, I believe, hear a note, we do know in
some sense exactly what that note is, as evidenced by the fact that we can
reproduce the note without hunting. That is, you can't generate a
specific note without knowing what it is and how tight you must tense your
vocal chords, etc., so, since I can generate the note, II must know what
the note is. Still, I can't name it. And, unlike Erich, I can't
remember it. So, what I'm saying is that the classifiers no pitch,
relative pitch, and perfect pitch, don't adequately describe the possible
human capabilities with regard to recognizing and naming pitch.
Charles R. Sullivan
>Erich
Wow, that's great! I've always wondered if something like that was
possible. I would say you have perfect pitch, but you've just never
learned the names of the notes. It sounds like you have never taken
music lessons. Is that true? If so you are a great counterexample to
the idea that perfect pitch is only developed by people who are exposed
to the right kind of training at an early age, blah blah blah.
I imagine that, if you had a desire to, you could learn the names of the
notes quite quickly, and be able to demonstrate the more conventional
form of perfect pitch---the ability to name notes.
Charlie Sullivan
John Morton
Chuck Ross <ckr...@wwa.com> wrote:
>In article <4d05vb$p9l$2...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, Tom Storer
><10034...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
>I knew a woman with perfect pitch. You could sit down at a piano and
>play a chord with as many notes as you wanted, any combination of notes,
>ten, if your fingers could to it, and she would proceed to name each and
>every note you played while facing in another direction.
Another parlor trick that my father used when showing off
my brother's perfect pitch: he would play all the notes of one octave
at once, less one, and my brother would name the missing note. I can't
remember if he could do this with a chromatic scale; it was 40 yrs. ago :-).
John Morton Mechanical Engineering Machine Shop
jmo...@euler.me.berkeley.edu University of California at Berkeley
Gary Valentin
j> What lyudmila is describing is the ability to "MATCH PITCH". Just
j> about any four or five year old child can do this . I do not know about
j> the rest of you , but I am somewhat offended that anyone would
j> trivialize the ability to perceive music in this particular
j> uninformed , primative and distastefull fashion. The gift of perfect
j> pitch is too dear. Weird? No . Ignorant? At least that.....
the ability which I have is commonly referred to as "NO PITCH". Because
I don't even have those 4-5 year old skills. I'm sorry that Lyudmila
offended you so much. I suspect that you do have perfect pitch and
that it's God's gift to you.
--
____________________________________________________________________
garyValentin \ IBM DB2 Performance
rud...@vnet.ibm.com \
(416)-448-3467 \ Everybody makes me steaks,
(TL)-778-3467 \ even me.
diagonal flying
>I cannot hear a note and tell you what it is, that is, an 'A' or a 'B',
>etc., yet, I claim that I do know exactly what note it is, and, I can
>prove it by humming the very note without any 'hunting' for the correct
>pitch. If I can produce the correct pitch, and I can, then, I must know
>it. Still, I can't name the pitch. Summing up, if I hear any pitch, I
>immediately know what the pitch is, and, I can adjust my vocal cords to
>produce the exact frequency, however, I can't name the pitch. So, perfect
>pitch is not the ability to know what a heard note is, but, the ability to
>name it. Weird.
In my years of playing bass, I have developed a ( I like to think)
very good sense of relative pitch. But to my surprise, in the main
range of my bass, I have "perfect' pitch. I can tell virtually any
note below middle C. This came from REPITITION and PRACTICE>
I can now tune my bass accurately by ear. However, take a 4 note,
right hand piano chord played up high, and can tell you the quality,
the inversion, etc...but the odds are I wont get the right notes, move
it down 2-3 octaves, and I'm OK.
Now I dont consider myself to have perfect pitch, just a lot of
conditioning and experience.
Heath Watts
Hearing the pitch of a note is similar to seeing colors. If you can hear
the difference between notes, you just memorize their sound then attach a
label to them. Takes about a year of practicing pitch recognition for 20
minutes a day.
JG
An impressive achievement, please tell us more.
Did you you follow David Burge's course, or someone else's , or did
you develop your own method?
How long was it before it started to work for you?
How far can one reasonably expect to take this skill, i.e. can you
apply it readily to fast moving jazz solos, or just slower single note
phrases?
After single notes, what about intervals, triads and chords.? Do you
then have to memorise the sound of each combination of notes as a new
'tonal color' or do you deduce it by identifying the individual
component notes separately?
Do you have to keep practising to retain the skill?
Jonathan
Ewan O'Doherty
teachers once told me that we are born with it. It is certainly a rare
ability, only one person in so many hundred or thousand has it - very
useful as I'm studying for a music degree at Trinity Dublin !
Regards
Ewan (Ewan O'Doherty)In article <3104c7e...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Gary Valentin
CPapic> As someone born with perfect pitch, I for one can only say that it is
CPapic> quite a gift, but it is also quite a curse.
why?
CPapic
Ross A Fletcher
>From: lyud...@aol.com (Lyudmila)
>Subject: Re: An observation about perfect pitch
>Date: 11 Jan 1996 15:18:23 -0500
>I believe that most people can reproduce a note when they hear it, as I
>can.
Yes but from what source? A colleague if asked to sing a note on the piano
or played on a pitchpipe cannot get anywhere near the note - a tone or tone
and a half from the note played is usual. However, sing a note to this guy
and he gets it right on pitch every time. I've never come across this
before. Obviously he hears different vibrations from the piano than from
the voice. I believe that this guy could an extreme case of mispitching
that many amateur singers suffer from when singing unaccompanied. Seems a
good reason for using a voice to tune a group rather than a piano - and if
the "tuner" has perfect pitch, so much the better.
Ross Fletcher
Industrial Research Limited
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
Tel 00 64 4 569-0000
"I'd never join a club that would accept me as a member" - Groucho Marx
Jeff Miller
Valentin) wrote:
>>>>>> "CPapic" == CPapic <cpa...@aol.com> writes:
>
>CPapic> As someone born with perfect pitch, I for one can only say that it is
>CPapic> quite a gift, but it is also quite a curse.
>
>why?
From what I understand, if you have very developed perfect pitch, you
will not only recognize notes, but *exact* pitches, so if you hear
someone playing out of tune, or a cd is recorded sharp or flat (like
Kind of Blue) it will drive you nuts. I new a guy in college who
could give you an estimate of how flat or sharp you were ("almost a
quarter tone sharp").
--
/\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/\
/\/\ Jeff Miller /\/\
\/\/ mil...@seanet.com \/\/
\/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\/
John Botari
> On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 17:43:39 GMT, vale...@torolab.ibm.com (Gary
> Valentin) wrote:
>
> >>>>>> "CPapic" == CPapic <cpa...@aol.com> writes:
> >
> >CPapic> As someone born with perfect pitch, I for one can only say that it is
> >CPapic> quite a gift, but it is also quite a curse.
> >
> >why?
>
> From what I understand, if you have very developed perfect pitch, you
> will not only recognize notes, but *exact* pitches, so if you hear
> someone playing out of tune, or a cd is recorded sharp or flat (like
> Kind of Blue) it will drive you nuts. I new a guy in college who
> could give you an estimate of how flat or sharp you were ("almost a
> quarter tone sharp").
Not only a curse for the _owner_ of the perfect pitch, but for all
those around him/her as well. I'll relate a story about my father:
A while back, we were cleaning out his basement, and we found a
stack of old 78 rpm records that he had bought in the '30s and
'40s ... nothing particularly notable from the RMB point of view
(mostly old classical recordings), but I thought that I'd like
to play a couple of the discs. Bear in mind that these were rec-
ords that he probably hadn't played in close to 40 years ... I
cleaned one up, put it on the turntable and he said:
"That's running just a bit fast ... should be in A-flat ..."
Sure enough, when I walked over to the piano (which he usually
keeps impeccably tuned), I found that the record _was_ running
about a quarter-tone sharp.
Show-off. Arrrrgh!
jb
Jennifer Doering
> From what I understand, if you have very developed perfect pitch, you
>> will not only recognize notes, but *exact* pitches, so if you hear
>> someone playing out of tune, or a cd is recorded sharp or flat (like
>> Kind of Blue) it will drive you nuts. I new a guy in college who
>> could give you an estimate of how flat or sharp you were ("almost a
>> quarter tone sharp").
The Kind of Blue CD drives me absolutely crazy, but I wouldn't say
that I've got perfect pitch. I've tried taking down solos from that CD,
but I thought I would go absolutely nuts. Also, the Bossa Nova Abersold
CD also drives me crazy. And I've noticed that jazz musicians tend to
play a little sharper than most orchestras. Early music pitched to a
lower A doesn't bother quite as much, though. Anyone know what my
problem is?
Jen
Jeff Volkman
Did you have a piano around when you were growing up? Sounds like you do
have perfect pitch, of some kind. Have you ever worked with it;
tried to strengthen it? You could probably work on desensitizing
yourself to whatever's bothering you; you just need to isolate it, and do
things like intentionally playing out of tune by a predetermined amount
to work on your tolerance. Keep aspirin handy.
I don't have perfect pitch, and I didn't grow up around a piano. I know
people with perfect pitch (that they grew up with; not aquired through
training), and they all grew up around pianos. I have a theory that
we're all born with the capacity for perfect pitch, but since few or none
of us use it at early, developemental stages of our lives, it never gets
developed or even recognized. Growing up around a piano, that's kept in
tune, is probably one thing that triggers the "perfect pitch" capability
in children. This is all conjecture, not based on or backed up by (as
far as I know) any scientific studies.
-Jeff
Joseph B McGlinchey
I have perfect pitch. I grew up around a piano--I don't know if it was
in tune all the time or not. Up until around the time I was five, my Mom
would play it (My favorite as a boy was, apparently, "Fool on the Hill"
by the Beatles!)...then I took classical piano lessons myself for the
next 7 or 8 years....now I just play for amusement...
I can't tell the EXACT frequency of a note; just relatively within the
ballpark...but I can tell one note from another (i.e. A from A flat, B
from C from C sharp)...I can also tell chords pretty easily...and if I
hear an everyday rock 'n' roll or pop song on the radio, I could probably
play the basic melody and chords within one to five takes...
I don't know much about the nature and nurture debate, but I would agree
that you probably have an innate ability from birth, which slowly decays
as you get older unless you continue to develop it (didn't Noam Chomsky
or someone have that same theory about language?)...I have a strange kind
of system when I hear a song in that I kind of translate the sounds to
associated colors--I know that sounds really weird--I think there's an
actual term for this called "synesthesia". For example, E is black, A is
brown/chestnut, C is blue, G is green, D is yellow...and depending on
whether the chord is major or minor, my conception of the color
changes...like F to me is red, but F major is red in a warm, regal sort
of way, and F minor is red as in the color of blood...E major is black as
in the color of night, dark and peaceful, but E minor is black as in evil
and despairing....sorry if that sounds weird, but it's true...
I've just recently begun to love jazz because, for me, that's the hardest
music to play--the chords are very complicated and hard to figure
out...it took me like twenty million tries just to figure out how to play
"Watermelon Man", which really isn't even a hard song once you figure it
out! And I love improvising...
Joe McGlinchey
Teachers College
Columbia University
Jennifer Doering
Joseph B McGlinchey <jb...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>I can't tell the EXACT frequency of a note; just relatively within the
>ballpark...
Yeah, I've noticed I do the same thing, too. I'm usually within a
whole or half step, though. Wierd thing is, is that I didn't do so well
on ear training tests, mainly because I have a hard time trusting myself
and I got really nervous before every damn test. But if I'm fairly
relaxed and just hanging with friends, I seem to do okay. Still don't
know if I have perfect pitch or not.
>I have a strange kind
>of system when I hear a song in that I kind of translate the sounds to
>associated colors--I know that sounds really weird--I think there's an
>actual term for this called "synesthesia".
That isn't strange at all. I don't have specific colors for specific
notes, though. I noticed my synesthesia when I began playing jazz.
Generally, the more chromatic the music, the more colorful my "hearing"
of it tends to be. For example, Miles' "Blue in Green" isn't blue, nor
is it green. It's actually orange, yellow, and red. Schoenberg's music,
along with George Russell's (although he's a little tricky sometimes) is
pretty psychidellic. And most "blues" are actually a sickly mauve or
grey color.
Chords tend to have their own color, too. Any diminished chord
usually has some sort of bluish tinge to it, and any flatted extentions
deepen the color. So a dim7 chord with flat 9, 11, 13, etc is a royal
blue, almost black. Chords that are major are reddish. A MA7(#5) chord
with lots of sharped extentions is a dark crimson. The other chords fall
into a rainbow between red and blue. Your average minor chord is green.
Nice to know I'm not just plain wierd,
Peace,
Jen
GJuke
>from C from C sharp).
So, like, where's the "perfect pitch" part?
GJ
Tim
right in the bowl without hitting the rim
Piddipat
points or hints. if i'm watching bet on jazz and i hear some cool chord
changes i can grab my guitar and know exactly what key the musicians are
in without fumbling. my mom had "relative" pitch. that's when you're
allowed a reference note (like middle c) and once you know what that note
is, you can quickly determine what any other note is. it's almost the same
as perfect pitch--it's just that the person with relative pitch needs a
little hint.
piddipat
Bill Carrothers
>piddipat
Actually, I'm not sure that's it either. I always thought relative
pitch was the ability to tell what notes or chords are being played
without any reference points or hints, getting the clues from the
color that the instrumens makes in various keys, and perfect pitch is
the ability to place five tuning forks on the table, have the person
listen to one of them and then tell you whether it was the right one
(A440) or not. ?????
Bill Carrothers
mvs...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> pidd...@aol.com (Piddipat) wrote:
:
:>"perfect" pitch is when you can tell the exact note without any reference
:>points or hints. if i'm watching bet on jazz and i hear some cool chord
:>changes i can grab my guitar and know exactly what key the musicians are
:>in without fumbling. my mom had "relative" pitch. that's when you're
:>allowed a reference note (like middle c) and once you know what that note
:>is, you can quickly determine what any other note is. it's almost the same
:>as perfect pitch--it's just that the person with relative pitch needs a
:>little hint.
:
:>piddipat
:
: Actually, I'm not sure that's it either. I always thought relative
: pitch was the ability to tell what notes or chords are being played
: without any reference points or hints,
piddipat's right. That's half the definition of PP. The other half is
singing notes at will w/out references (aural recall?). The relative pitch is
the ability to recognize *relationships* among notes.
: getting the clues from the
: color that the instrumens makes in various keys,
Most people can hear differences in the "moods" of different keys, but
that's still perfect pitch if you're talking piano. I think there's nothing
about intervals on equal-tempered instruments that can give you a clue
about the key. Unless you can tell the piece is in B by looking at the
reflection of pianist's face turning red.
: and perfect pitch is
: the ability to place five tuning forks on the table, have the person
: listen to one of them and then tell you whether it was the right one
: (A440) or not. ?????
You mean the rest are like 440.5, 439.5?? Hmm, I think the techinical term for
*that* is Real Bitchin' Perfect Pitch.
Michael