Revival in Leander
Bro Jed
loving God supremely, and their fellow man as themselves; oh, that all of
man-kind would just live as they were designed, namely, lovingly, and that, in
an unselfish manner! Amen.
Now, to the business at hand: my theology and personal life. As for the
former, particularly, in the area of sinlessness, this is what I believe: if a
person genuinely loves Jesus, this will be evident in the obedience rendered
unto the same (John 14:15,21,23,24; I John 5:3). Again, just so there is no
misunderstanding, I believe that all true Christians (disciples, imitators,
followers of Christ) are WITHOUT sin. Scripture for this? Matthew 5:48, Luke
6:46, Acts 5:32, Romans ch. 6, I Cor. 15:34, II Cor. 13:7, Gal. 5:24, Eph. 5:3,
Phil. 2:15, Col. 4:12, I Thess. 5:23, and we could continue, but I will end
with these: I John 1:9, 2:3-4, 3:1-10, 5:2-3,18. To me, and I know that I am
not wrong, this, namely the sinless life of a believer, is too obvious the
doctrine of Scripture to need further elucidation. Amen.
Now for the latter, namely, the charges that I have incurred via this
newsgroup, I reply: I will see you on judgment day, when an OMNISCIENT God
"...shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
Amen.
As it pertains to the effect of the revival upon this local church, I will now
paraphrase what the leadership has said, and still says, as well as, the
general consensus of the dedicated members within the same: "Trinity Christian
Center has never been this healthy and active; we are more focused than ever;
we have never before experienced such an awesome manifestation of God's power;
it seems so easy, now (after the revival), to do what was so difficult before."
These are just a few, of the many, statements that have been made, again, by
the leadership, meaning, Pastors, Elders, Deacons, and the dedicated core of
Trinity! Anyone can consider themselves free to contact Pastor Ron Rhea at
(512) 515-5591, if the veracity of the above statements should be called into
question.
Lastly, and this is only for Mr. "Meyers," I have a message for you from Pastor
Ron Rhea (the pastor of the poor, pitiful, beat-up church, of which, you claim
to be a part): he does not agree with any of your assessments, as it pertains
to the state of the church; and, if he finds out you are in the church, and
saying what you are saying, he will personally reprove you, and if you do not
repent, expel you. If you have any questions, contact him; I am just relaying
the message.
In all soberness,
Brother Ken
BeYontRy
Jed (Or was it Ken) posts, in part:
>
>As it pertains to the effect of the revival upon this local church, I will
>now
>paraphrase what the leadership has said, and still says, as well as, the
>general consensus of the dedicated members within the same: "Trinity
>Christian
>Center has never been this healthy and active; we are more focused than ever;
>we have never before experienced such an awesome manifestation of God's
>power;
>it seems so easy, now (after the revival), to do what was so difficult
>before."
> These are just a few, of the many, statements that have been made, again, by
>the leadership, meaning,
>
Meaning the people you chose to allow to stay.
>
>Lastly, and this is only for Mr. "Meyers," I have a message for you from
>Pastor
>Ron Rhea (the pastor of the poor, pitiful, beat-up church, of which, you
>claim
>to be a part): he does not agree with any of your assessments, as it pertains
>to the state of the church; and, if he finds out you are in the church, and
>saying what you are saying, he will personally reprove you, and if you do not
>repent, expel you. If you have any questions, contact him; I am just
>relaying
>the message.
>
Good to know that Xians can't function in an environment where even one person
isn't thinking in strict lockstep with everyone else. The Pagan victory is
assured!!!!
The Beyonder
"People who speak for their Gods are speaking for an Entity so pathetic It
can't even set up a free E-mail account. Listen not to such stooges." My
advice to a ten-year-old who was being dragged along on a missionary drive by
her parents.
Shalalhash
>Good to know that Xians can't function in an environment where even one
>person
>isn't thinking in strict lockstep with everyone else.
Sorry, beyontry, you're wrong. Christians LOVE to discuss the Scriptures and
their differing perspectives on it. CULTS cannot tolerate a slight variance
from what they are trying to brainwash the followers with.
Shalalhash
> I will now paraphrase what the leadership has said, and still says, as well
as, the
>general consensus of the dedicated members within the same: "Trinity
>Christian
>Center has never been this healthy and active...
> These are just a few, of the many, statements that have been made, again, by
>the leadership, meaning, Pastors, Elders, Deacons, and the dedicated core of
>Trinity!
"Dedicated core" is those left behind after MANY families left who had been
there many years. Families who had been teachers, deacons, leaders. The new
leaders are mostly very young, inexperienced and practically hypnotized by Ken
Jones.
> Anyone can consider themselves free to contact Pastor Ron Rhea at
>(512) 515-5591, if the veracity of the above statements should be called into
>question.
UNTRUE! "Anyone" excludes anyone who left the church, and anyone from the
churches these people have since gone to. We're being told all the people who
left are now in cults where as the opposite is true. Those who have stayed to
rescue our church from a cult cannot even approach our own pastor about our
concerns!!!
>
>Lastly, and this is only for Mr. "Meyers," I have a message for you from
>Pastor
>Ron Rhea (the pastor of the poor, pitiful, beat-up church, of which, you
>claim
>to be a part): he does not agree with any of your assessments, as it pertains
>to the state of the church; and, if he finds out you are in the church, and
>saying what you are saying, he will personally reprove you, and if you do not
>repent, expel you. If you have any questions, contact him; I am just
>relaying
>the message.
To contact Ron with questions is to be thrown out of the church without even
being heard out. How many more of us is he going to throw out?
>
BeYontRy
The Beyonder
Shalhalash posts:
Waldmeyer2
until they can take back their church. At least Jones is out of state for the
present.
sei...@ma.ultranet.com
shala...@aol.com (Shalalhash) wrote:
> << from beyo...@aol.com >>
>
> >Good to know that Xians can't function in an environment where even one
> >person
> >isn't thinking in strict lockstep with everyone else.
>
> Sorry, beyontry, you're wrong. Christians LOVE to discuss the Scriptures and
> their differing perspectives on it. CULTS cannot tolerate a slight variance
> from what they are trying to brainwash the followers with.
Good point, Meher-Shahal-Hash-Baz. Actual spirit-filled churches are also
quick to support and defend those who walk through their doors, not to
condemn.
---- Scott Eiler B{D> ---- http://www.ultranet.com/~seiler/ ----
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Shalalhash
people, to say the least.
>> seiler wrote: <<
> Actual spirit-filled churches are also
>quick to support and defend those who walk through their doors, not to
>condemn.
Quick to accept ANYONE who comes to church regardless of clothes, background,
social status, etc. Quick to welcome ANYONE into God's family who makes that
decision, to call the person a brother or sister.
Quick also to discern spirits and false doctrine.
sei...@ma.ultranet.com
shala...@aol.com (Shalalhash) wrote:
> 50 Points to seiler - - Maher SHB isn't one of the most recognized Bible
> people, to say the least.
Woo-hoo! I can't say I remember who Mahershahalhashbaz was, but the name
rolls off the tongue so nicely it's stuck in my mind.
> >> seiler wrote: <<
>
> > Actual spirit-filled churches are also
> >quick to support and defend those who walk through their doors, not to
> >condemn.
>
> Quick to accept ANYONE who comes to church regardless of clothes, background,
> social status, etc. Quick to welcome ANYONE into God's family who makes that
> decision, to call the person a brother or sister.
Right. Other differences can be straightened out later, but the
straightening works best in an atmosphere of mutual support, which it sounds
like the "Leander revival" is missing.
Waldmeyer2
>I can't say I remember who Mahershahalhashbaz was, but the name
>rolls off the tongue so nicely it's stuck in my mind.
Guess that's why I picked it for a screen name way back when.
Must have lodged in your mind from a study somewhere in the past. He was
Isaiah's 2nd born, given the name as a prophecy of Israel's coming destruction
by Assyria: "Hastening to the spoil, hurrying to the prey". Isaiah 8:1-4 (if
anyone's interested).
BeYontRy
The Beyonder
Shalalhash posts:
>
>50 Points to seiler - - Maher SHB isn't one of the most recognized Bible
>people, to say the least.
>
>>> seiler wrote: <<
>
> > Actual spirit-filled churches are also
>>quick to support and defend those who walk through their doors, not to
>>condemn.
>
>Quick to accept ANYONE who comes to church regardless of clothes, background,
>social status, etc. Quick to welcome ANYONE into God's family who makes that
>decision, to call the person a brother or sister.
>
ELSMANLAW
>
>Quick or accurate?
What difference does it make to you Great Beyond? You are doomed yourself.
With these people it is just a question of praying through and repenting and
letting Jesus set His Church right. This is just a church house, not the
Church. The latter is Perfect, since Jesus is the Head, per the Bible.
Beyond is irrelevant as usual.
Lawyer Jim
BeYontRy
>
>Beyonder thinks he has something to contribute:
> >
>>Quick or accurate?
>
>What difference does it make to you Great Beyond? You are doomed yourself.
>With these people it is just a question of praying through and repenting and
>letting Jesus set His Church right. This is just a church house, not the
>Church. The latter is Perfect, since Jesus is the Head, per the Bible.
>
Granted it's (mostly) academic curiousity for me- but, the longer it takes them
to fall, the more people they'll take with them.
At this point, I imagine many of them would settle for Jesus setting His church
right quickly OR accurately. Right now His scores are pretty low in both
categories.
Just for curiosity: Once all the individual churches fall, what's left of the
Church?
The Beyonder
Bro Jed
>The new
>leaders are mostly very young, inexperienced and practically hypnotized by
>Ken
>Jones.
Mostly very young and inexperienced? Non-sense! The Pastor has been a
Christian for over fifteen years, and for most of that time has been involved
in some form of ministry; and, the only elder has been a Christian for about
the same. The other two leaders are deacons. One is 40+ years old and
well-established within the Scriptures; the other--the only "young"one--Alan
Couchman is stable in the faith (according to the Pastor), and growing in
knowledge daily. Get your facts straight!
Hypnotized? What a joke! Influenced by me? Yes; and, Thank God! Hopefully,
you are not envious!
>UNTRUE! "Anyone" excludes anyone who left the church, and anyone from the
>churches these people have since gone to. We're being told all the people
>who
>left are now in cults where as the opposite is true. Those who have stayed
>to
>rescue our church from a cult cannot even approach our own pastor about our
>concerns!!!
LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward to returning in December, and
hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward! You are a wimp! How
dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron. You coward! You spineless punk!
Grow up!
In love,
Brother Ken
Waldmeyer2
>LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward to returning in December, and
>hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward! You are a wimp!
>How
>dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron. You coward! You spineless
>punk!
> Grow up!
EXACTLY the way any of the church people were treated who dared approach Ron or
Ken with questions / concerns about the new teachings, method and hatred that
Ken brought in.
ELSMANLAW
blood. Knowing the terror of the LORD, they must persuade men, not defame them.
I am searching for sober thoughts. Knowing that this site is read by the
minds of unbelievers that have actively had their eyes blinded by the god of
this age (II Corinth. 4:4), I hope you will consider such. You are
Ambassadors per that same Chapter, and the one following (5th). Read such and
be good Ambassadors of reconciliation.
I do Mediation and Arbitration for a living. Could Jed and I
or some others help out? There are Conference Phones to start with.
Lawyer Jim
gla...@my-dejanews.com
> >to
> >rescue our church from a cult cannot even approach our own pastor about our
> >concerns!!!
>
> hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward! You are a wimp! How
> dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron. You coward! You spineless punk!
> Grow up!
Hmmm. "Taunting?" Is this Christian behavior? "Spineless punk?" Hmmm.
Methinks the good Brother Ken is a BIT defensive. I'm afraid to say that if
THIS is the voice of the pastor of Shalalhash's church, I think what
Shalalhash has to say is, sadly, probably true. A pastor who calls those who
disagree with such names is certainly not very approachable.
My pity on your church that you have such leaders.
Erin
gla...@my-dejanews.com
you have Lawyer Jim on your side, you KNOW that they've gone too far!!!
Thanks, Jim, for standing up for these folks.
In article <199807251315...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gla...@my-dejanews.com
beyo...@aol.com (BeYontRy) wrote:
> Just for curiosity: Once all the individual churches fall, what's left of the
> Church?
That's actually a really good question IMO. We have been promised that the
true Church will never pass away; Jesus said so himself. But such has not
been promised for every individual denomination, large and small. I think we
can take it for certain (within Christian belief and within the promises in
Scripture) that all the individual churches WILL fall that are not wholly
united with the true Church. Perhaps some will only let fall those parts of
themselves that are in opposition to the true Church. Maybe the true Church
itself, whatever it is, has dead wood within it that must be destroyed to
allow its rightful self to shine through.
In the end, God says through the Bible, good will prevail and sin will
perish; and among the dead will be apostasy and heresy. No one will teach
falsities any more. By this token all false churches must fall if Scripture
is to be fulfilled. And I think we all suspect that churches based on hatred
and bigotry, churches with membership fees and closed doors, will fall pretty
damn fast.
Erin
gla...@NOSPAM.cems.umn.edu
Scott Eiler
bro...@aol.com (Bro Ken) wrote:
>LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward to returning in December,
>and hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward!
>You are a wimp! How dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron.
>You coward! You spineless punk! Grow up!
>
>
>Brother Ken
"In love"?!?
This is the silliest message I've ever seen come out of Brother Jed's
account, and I've seen some silly ones. So far, the only problem I have
with your opponents is that they take you too seriously. You, on the
other hand, seem to be clinging on to destructive behavioral habits
from before you were saved, and pretending that God smiles upon your
sins. Turn to God and purify yourself so that the things you do and say
actually are "in love".
I shall pray for you. I bid your opponents to do likewise, as Jesus bid
us all.
-------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- http://www.ultranet.com/~seiler
"I would rarely use the term slut. I have never heard my children call
anyone a slut. I prefer words like strumpet, trollop, vixen, hussy,
tart, etc."
-- Brother Jed (George Edward Smock).
Nathan Engle
> I guess after Jed's missionary experiences, he feels that taunting Christians
> is safer than taunting Pagans.
Not so. Moderate Christians have always been Jed's most
vehement critics. IMO the reason they draw more of his
attention is it's easier for him to get their goat, just
aside from the fact that it's more likely that the people
he ticks off will become converts.
--
Nathan Engle
Shop Steward Electron Juggler's Guild, Local #1
BLOBn...@indiana.eduBLUB BLOBhttp://php.indiana.edu/~nengleBLUB
"Some Assembly Required"
BeYontRy
now?!?!?
I guess after Jed's missionary experiences, he feels that taunting Christians
is safer than taunting Pagans.
The Beyonder
P.S. When you say "In love," what language is it taken from and what does it
mean in that language? From the tone of your letter it can't have anything to
do with the English word "love."
Jed (Or is it Ken) posts, in part:
>
>>UNTRUE! "Anyone" excludes anyone who left the church, and anyone from the
>>churches these people have since gone to. We're being told all the people
>>who
>>left are now in cults where as the opposite is true. Those who have stayed
>>to
>>rescue our church from a cult cannot even approach our own pastor about our
>>concerns!!!
>
BeYontRy
(Here on alt.borg-jed and some other places it's called "Xianity")
The Beyonder
Waldmeyer2 posts:
>
>Ken Jones (or Jed Smock?) wrote:
>
>>LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward to returning in December, and
>>hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward! You are a wimp!
>>How
>>dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron. You coward! You spineless
>>punk!
>> Grow up!
>
BeYontRy
Jim posts, in part:
>
>Waldmyer and Ken display much personal venom. They war not against flesh
>and
>blood. Knowing the terror of the LORD, they must persuade men, not defame
>them.
>
Knwing some of the Salesmen of the Lord, is there a difference?
>
>I am searching for sober thoughts.
>
So you logged onto AOL? ;-)
>
>Knowing that this site is read by the
>minds of unbelievers that have actively had their eyes blinded by the god of
>this age
>
How do you know the Age of a God? Traditionally They're not too cooperative
with carbon-dating tests . . .
>
>I do Mediation and Arbitration for a living. Could Jed and I
>or some others help out? There are Conference Phones to start with.
>
A non-sarcastic suggestion: Have Ken and Ron sign notarized agreements that
they won't be kicked out of their church for bringing forward their concerns.
I really should archive this thread for the next time someone snipes at me for
listening to the Gods Themselves instead of Their self-appointed mouthpieces.
The Beyonder
ELSMANLAW
You know Revival is really not going on in Leander , I suspect.
I suggest a creative way for Revival to go on there:
Let all involved hit the streets and sidewalks with preaching
and
tracts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It will be a litmus test of who is really serving God.
Christians testify. They do not devour one another. To the winner goes
souls-saved. Just because you are in a building with a steeple, etc. does not
make you a Christian, anymore than going into a Mule Barn makes one a mule.
Showdown! Let's get ready to rumble! Let there be REAL
REVIVAL IN LEANDER.
Lawyer Jim
p.s. This idea came to me when I was thinking about some new Tapes coming out
of Jed's Conference. Anyone can order such from Jed, even one where my words
can be used against me, by myself. Anyway, Jed spoke on Wesley and his unique
open-air ministry. Wesley was oft not welcome in church houses, even in his
own church. When his father died, he preached, not at the church, but on his
father's grave stone. He opined that many-fold more got saved, than if he had
preached such in the church. Get Jed's Tape of such.
Cosimo
>LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward to returning in December, and
>hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt such a coward! You are a wimp! How
>dare you say you can not approach Pastor Ron. You coward! You spineless punk!
> Grow up!
>
>In love,
>
>Brother Ken
Maybe we should distribute a copy of Ken's venomous and silly post to all
the remaining members of the Leander church. Knowing that the inspiration
behind their new wave of pulpit pounders is such a mature individual may
make a couple of them envy the ones that got run out of town.
ralphus
---------------------------------------
my anti-spam e-mail -> barne...@osu.edu
Cosimo
elsm...@aol.com (ELSMANLAW) wrote:
>Revival in Leander?????????????????
> You know Revival is really not going on in Leander , I suspect.
> I suggest a creative way for Revival to go on there:
> Let all involved hit the streets and sidewalks with preaching
>and
>tracts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much time do you spend on the streets and sidwalks LJ? If you haven't
been out much, i'll be sure and pray to god that he sends revival your
way.
Also, you never answered me concerning how much time you spent at Harvard
divinity school. To ask the questions again, how many courses in the
divinity school did you take? Were you officially enroled in a religious
degree program? Was theology or something similar ever your minor? Did
you ever get a religious degree from Harvard?
If you want to throw out the fact that you are aquainted with Harvard
divinity school, you can at least give us the bare bones details about it.
ELSMANLAW
What do we do? Between Michigan undergrad and Law School, I was offered a
Fellowship by the Rockefeller Family to pick any Divinity School and they would
pay all room, board and tuition. I picked Harvard, cause Tillich and other
great scholars were there, esp. Cross and Wright who had done the great work on
the Dead Sea Scrolls. I spent just the one year there, strictly in Divinity.
I also was Asst. Pastor at a church in Dorchester. Neither Divinity nor church
life excited me. I was bored and not inspired. I took about l5 courses,
including helping an Orth. Priest from Russian translate Russian materials. I
had a Catholic girl from Michigan that I was in love with, and Harvard held me
only one year. Back to Michigan Law and marriage and babies, playing Catholic
rouellete. NOW, DON'T BE SO PERSONAL.
JIM
p.s. If it were someone other than Ralph, I would not answer, but we bonded
when I preached at the Oval.
LO...@alpha.bgsu.edu
>Ralphus wants to know all about me, and I do not choose to talk about myself.
>What do we do? Between Michigan undergrad and Law School, I was offered a
>Fellowship by the Rockefeller Family to pick any Divinity School and they would
>pay all room, board and tuition. I picked Harvard, cause Tillich and other
>great scholars were there, esp. Cross and Wright who had done the great work on
>the Dead Sea Scrolls.
They were also reasonably well known for their acitons in the conspiratorial
treatment of the material in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't the only
ones, but I would hardly base my opinions on the scrolls on any work that
they did.
-Sincerely
-LL
BeYontRy
manuever I've seen from a LOT of Used-God salesmen (I don't remember if Jed did
this) went like this:
Xian: "Jesus was either the REAL Son of GOD, or he was a DAMNED
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!"
Pagan: "Ummm, okay. I mean, I'd always thought the Big Jay was an all-right
kind of dude, but if you insist he's a damned liar, it just isn't my karma to
try to talk you out of it."
And so on . . .
The Beyonder
Nathan posts:
>
>BeYontRy wrote:
>> I guess after Jed's missionary experiences, he feels that taunting
>Christians
>> is safer than taunting Pagans.
>
BeYontRy
Ralphus posts:
BeYontRy
not one."
The Beyonder
<Looking for my WAV file of Christopher Lambert saying "There can be only
one!")
Erin posts, in part:
ELSMANLAW
As I recall saying in that post, I was discouraged with the nature
of Bible academics, so I quickly learned not to put my faith in men. Secondly,
the Scrolls have only a little to do with the New Test. and basically confirm
the translations of the Old Test. as being accurate, esp. Books like Isaiah,
etc. Of course, such is important to believers in Yeshua, because of Is. 53,
etc. , of which we have treated before.
I will share a slightly funny story about the limitations of the
scholars. Cross and Wright studied at Johns Hopkins under the great Albright,
who spent much of his time in Israel digging. I know an old hillbilly Preacher
Man, who chanced to dig with Albright, as a laborer. The hillbilly opined that
it was his knowledge that there was a great fault in the earth below Yerusalaem
and that it was positioned such that when Messiah returned, it would split the
Mt. of Olives, etc. Albright said such was not true, but that he would
investigate such with geologists. He did so, and reported that the hillbilly
was correct.
Louis, do you know from your sources if there is a fault under
the Holy City? Does Orthodoxy opine about an earthquake occuring when Messiah
comes?
Jim
Ger...@my-dejanews.com
>Louis:
> As I recall saying in that post, I was discouraged with the nature
>of Bible academics, so I quickly learned not to put my faith in men. Secondly,
I was not bashing either Harvard or you. I was simply stating that the kinds
of scholarship and the kinds of scandals that have been involved with the
Dead Sea Scrolls (by Harvard employees and others) is disgusting. I am just
glad that I got to work with the actual documents myself so that I was spared
this nonsense.
Actually, from what I have seen of Biblical archeology and much Biblical
scholarship in general I must say that the Dead Sea Scrolls scandal is just
the next step in corruption. The kinds of shoddy archeological work that
goes on is really quite shocking. People simply want to keep their funding
so much of the time. I could provide all sorts of examples, but this is
hardly the forum.
>the Scrolls have only a little to do with the New Test. and basically confirm
>the translations of the Old Test. as being accurate, esp. Books like Isaiah,
>etc. Of course, such is important to believers in Yeshua, because of Is. 53,
>etc. , of which we have treated before.
Yes. I have read the Scrolls and I realize that they have almost nothing to
do with Xian scripture. The earlier scandals with the Scrolls were
purporting that they were discovering all sorts of new things about the early
church etc. Just a lot of very miserable work.
> I will share a slightly funny story about the limitations of the
>scholars. Cross and Wright studied at Johns Hopkins under the great Albright,
I do not know if I would call him great. His hands were far from clean when
dealing with the Scrolls or any number of other things.
>who spent much of his time in Israel digging. I know an old hillbilly Preacher
>Man, who chanced to dig with Albright, as a laborer. The hillbilly opined that
>it was his knowledge that there was a great fault in the earth below Yerusalaem
>and that it was positioned such that when Messiah returned, it would split the
>Mt. of Olives, etc. Albright said such was not true, but that he would
>investigate such with geologists. He did so, and reported that the hillbilly
>was correct.
> Louis, do you know from your sources if there is a fault under
>the Holy City? Does Orthodoxy opine about an earthquake occuring when Messiah
>comes?
> Jim
Yes. There is a fault. It runs right under the Har HaBayis and also into
Kidron and under the Har HaZaysim if I am not mistaken. It is not a very
active one, but it is there. You can read about some of its affects in
accounts as early as Josephus.
About earthquakes when the Messiah comes..... Orthodoxy believes that any
negative prophecy can be averted like the prophecy of Jonah at Nineveh.
gla...@my-dejanews.com
beyo...@aol.com (BeYontRy) wrote:
> So . . . if they ALL fall . . .? After all, "No, there are none worthy; no,
> not one."
If they all fall, then we'll all have to conclude that Christianity was
entirely wrong.
But... I have confidence that one will not.
Erin
> >In the end, God says through the Bible, good will prevail and sin will
> >perish; and among the dead will be apostasy and heresy. No one will teach
> >falsities any more. By this token all false churches must fall if Scripture
> >is to be fulfilled.
> >
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
ELSMANLAW
I inferred Louis to mean the fight for control and access. It got
mean and ugly. Louis may know the story of who controlled who got to see the
fragments, etc. Powerful interests were involved.
Lawyer Jim
> known for their acitons in the
>conspiratorial
>> treatment of the material in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't the only
>> ones, but I would hardly base my opinions on the scrolls on any work that
>> they did.
>
>
>No, really, I'm curious...never heard of a conspiracy involving the
>Scrolls.
>
Ger...@my-dejanews.com
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>LO...@alpha.bgsu.edu wrote in article <6pjb9h$7tv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> In a previous article, elsm...@aol.com (ELSMANLAW) says:
>>
>> >Ralphus wants to know all about me, and I do not choose to talk about
>myself.
>> >What do we do? Between Michigan undergrad and Law School, I was offered
>a
>> >Fellowship by the Rockefeller Family to pick any Divinity School and
>they would
>> >pay all room, board and tuition. I picked Harvard, cause Tillich and
>other
>> >great scholars were there, esp. Cross and Wright who had done the great
>work on
>> >the Dead Sea Scrolls.
>>
>> They were also reasonably well known for their acitons in the
>conspiratorial
>> treatment of the material in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't the only
>> ones, but I would hardly base my opinions on the scrolls on any work that
>> they did.
>
>What conspiracy was *that*? Did it involve UFOs and grassy knolls?
>
>No, really, I'm curious...never heard of a conspiracy involving the
>Scrolls.
>
>Frenchy the Menschy
A good article was written on the topic by Geza Veremes (who also recently
translated the Scrolls). All through their history they have been subject to
all sorts of political big wheels and power struggles. In the earlier parts
of their scholarly pursuits people were falsifying all sorts of findings
(particularly those regarding early Xianity) in order to gain funding and PR
points. It was really disgusting.
-Sincerely
-LL
Cosimo
>Ralphus wants to know all about me, and I do not choose to talk about myself.
>What do we do? Between Michigan undergrad and Law School, I was offered a
>Fellowship by the Rockefeller Family to pick any Divinity School and they would
>pay all room, board and tuition. I picked Harvard, cause Tillich and other
>great scholars were there, esp. Cross and Wright who had done the great work on
>the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Was Tillich into his pantheist, hindu/Xian stage of thinking by then or
was he still nearly a mainstream Xian? Did you ever take a course with
Tillich? What did you think of his active-passivism stance?
> NOW, DON'T BE SO PERSONAL.
Jim, what could be less personal than asking about your education? It not
like I am asking about the consistencey of your stool or your sex life or
anything.
BeYontRy
The Beyonder
Erin posts, in part:
ELSMANLAW
but yes, I did. Tillich was dull, obscure and anti-Christian. I believe he
ended his life of nothingness , known for sitting naked on his roof, half mad
according to his wife.. Most of all, he preached a social gospel, and never
helped me. I used to walk in Harvard Yard between the 2 hours he taught, and
question him. He knew nothing that a simple mind could comprehend. He was the
quintessential German scholar we used to worship in the US, along with Rocket
Scientists. In truth, he did not teach his own Theology out of a feigned
humility , but taught me " The Theology of the Reformers--Luther, Zwingli and
Calvin".
You ask of his activism-passivism stance? I do not remember
much. All I know is that he cut and ran from Hitler. Bonhoeffer and others
stayed and were killed for speaking up. Hell is paved with the bones of those
who make their living in "religion". Jesus hated "religion" remember.
Lawyer Jim
gla...@my-dejanews.com
elsm...@aol.com (ELSMANLAW) wrote:
>Jesus hated "religion" remember.
No he didn't. He hated hypocrisy. The two are not synonymous.
--
Erin
__________________________________________
gla...@FIGHTSPAMcems.umn.edu (you know what to do!
Cosimo
>Ralph wants to know if I ever matriculated under Tillich. Such is immaterial,
>but yes, I did. Tillich was dull, obscure and anti-Christian.
Did you know that Tillich was "anti-Xian" when you decided to choose Harvard?
I believe he
>ended his life of nothingness , known for sitting naked on his roof, half mad
>according to his wife..
Most of all, he preached a social gospel, and never
>helped me.
Did you need any help Jim? Did you ever ask him for help? Did you need
more help than the homeless in that area?
I used to walk in Harvard Yard between the 2 hours he taught, and
>question him. He knew nothing that a simple mind could comprehend.
Did you mean to insult Tillich and forgot to write the "n't" after "could."
He was the
>quintessential German scholar we used to worship in the US, along with Rocket
>Scientists. In truth, he did not teach his own Theology out of a feigned
>humility , but taught me " The Theology of the Reformers--Luther, Zwingli and
>Calvin".
Was it feigned humility or was the course on early post-reformation
theology? If it was on 20th century theology, he would never mention
Luther & co. If he was teaching about the foundations of modern day
protestant theology then it would be silly to think that he would mention
his own stuff. Don't tell me the head of the department taught theology
101.
> You ask of his activism-passivism stance? I do not remember
>much. All I know is that he cut and ran from Hitler. Bonhoeffer and others
>stayed and were killed for speaking up.
So if a god hating demon possessed president of the usa made him/herself
dictator and started killing Xians, you would consider it sinful for
yourself and other Xians to leave the country? Do you want to cite a
bible verse for this?
ELSMANLAW
anyone is repenting, praying, etc., and whether revival of the Saints is
leading to conversions of the Sinners in town. That is the test of that
Church, which is getting so much attention here, but it would appear that
neither side of the battle is doing anything for God. What's up?
Lawyer Jim
Melindalfa
I go to another church in Leander now (I don't think there are but 2 spirit
filled churches here) where great things are happening. I can't tell precisly
if I would call it revival yet; sometimes it's hard to pinpoint exactly when it
starts. But there are more and more people coming, confessing sin, being
saved, getting baptized. We've more than tripled in size in the last year.
But Jim, you bring up a good point. History records that when revivals occur,
whole communities are talking about it; many are being saved; many Christians
are repenting of sin. Getting rid of sin is usually at the heart of a revival.
I don't want to speak for other Christians at that church, so I'll say from my
view point, revival was on the way to Trinity in Leander! In fact, as you may
know, there are record #'s of people across the WORLD converting to Pentecostal
salvation. And Leander needs it!! I believe revival started, and very quickly
fizzled. I know that people's hearts were open, and therefore God can move and
work through lives no matter who's preaching on the platform. And I'm sure
that did happen. But what could have been revival meetings turned into
theological discussions. I'm sure the leaders had their reasoning, but after
Ken came, all other areas of ministry ceased. If I'm remembering correctly,
music ministry, youth meetings, young adult meetings, cell group meetings.
Apart from Sunday morning, the other service most emphasized was Ken's theology
classes.
Open air preaching and witnessing is not unfamiliar to hardly anyone, we've all
done it, or seen it somewhere. But Ken's style is so unusual for a self
proclaimed Christian, that our local radio news station sent someone down to a
campus where he was, to broadcast, and make fun of him.
There are a lot of people who no longer attend that Church who have managed to
forgive and are now avidly praying for Trinity. I don't know what's going on
there now, or who is left there. But I truly hope that God will be, or has
already been able to start a new work.
Melinda
ELSMANLAW
Don't worry about God. He is always able and WILL, according
to the counsel of His Own Will. He never fails. He never panics. If everyone
in Leander failed Him, He could send someone from Indonesia or someplace to
start Revival, and they would do a perfect work. Technically, your "hope" is
not Faith. If God promised that it is His will in Scripture that not one
Sinner perish, then God will perform that promise , even in Leander, if you
turn it over to Jesus, Who, per Matt. 28 has "all power and authority in Heaven
and on Earth". That should be enough to get the job done. Ken Jones and all
the characters in this play should be the first to tell you that they are
irrelevant. God in Christ is an action God. We merely play bit- parts.
My prayers continue for Leander, but in Faith, not
merely hope,
Lawyer Jim
>o
>forgive and are now avidly praying for Trinity. I don't know what's going on
>there now, or who is left there. But I truly hope that God will be, or has
>already been able to start a new work.
>
>Melinda
></PRE></HTML>
BeYontRy
>
>In fact, as you may
>know, there are record #'s of people across the WORLD converting to
>Pentecostal
>salvation.
>
Are you sure it's Pentacostal salvation, and not Unitarian or Catholic or
7th-Day Adventist?
I've often heard (usually from fundies) people taking statistics of how many
TOTAL people claim to be or converted to Christianity and insisting that they
have to be their particular brand of Christianity, on the *argument* that
that's the only real kind . . .
The Beyonder
"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics."
Cosimo
beyo...@aol.com (BeYontRy) wrote:
>Melindalfa posts:
>
>>
>>In fact, as you may
>>know, there are record #'s of people across the WORLD converting to
>>Pentecostal
>>salvation.
>>
>
>Are you sure it's Pentacostal salvation, and not Unitarian or Catholic or
>7th-Day Adventist?
>
>I've often heard (usually from fundies) people taking statistics of how many
>TOTAL people claim to be or converted to Christianity and insisting that they
>have to be their particular brand of Christianity, on the *argument* that
>that's the only real kind . . .
Pentecostals and charismatics are whupping ass as far as church growth
goes. Their huge growth (some denoms have been doubling every few years)
is relative, however. A denomination of 1 million that doubles every 5
years is only slowly sneaking up on catholicism as far as total membership
goes. On the other hand, 20 denominations of 1 million doubling every few
years is more than just a drop in the bucket. Most central and south
american countries are now 10-25% protestant (a huge chunk of these are
pentecostals) and that is a big change from 100 years ago when it was
catholocism all the way. Similar things are going on in africa, south
korea, and china (if i can believe what i learn from pentecostals).
I posted a bunch of stuff about the pentecostal invasion of south america
a while ago. Bogus faith healing, speaking in tongues, and evangelism
tactics that would make a used car salesman blush are being successfully
used to convert the uneducated and poor. Pentecostalism is generally not
doing anything for most who are educated and literate.