yeast question
tall...@mabell.com
Every book I've read on breadmaking says that you >MUST< dissolve active
dry yeast in 105 - 115 degree F water. It seems like an inviolable rule.
If the water's too hot, it will kill the yeast. If it's too cold, one
book says the yeast's cells will be damaged: the cell contents will leak
out, which will damage the dough, also.
My latest bread book aquisition is Daniel Leader's Bread Alone. He
advocates longer, slower, cooler rises. His recipes start with a sponge,
which he calls a poolish, and he says he doesn't believe in
"kick-starting" the yeast by dissolving it in warm water. He says the
water temperature should be 75 deg F. I've tried one of his recipes, and
it worked fine.
So my question is, why do most books insist on the higher temperatures?
Is the yeast damaged by cooler water?
Larry
--
My real email address is pacbell.net, not mabell.com.
Joel Shimberg
Larry:
> So my question is, why do most books insist on the higher temperatures?
> Is the yeast damaged by cooler water?
No, cold water won't hurt it, just slow it down and give some time for
flavor to improve. The problem is that book writers frequently aim at
beginners, who are not noted for patience. They want the bread NOW. Look
at the success of fast-acting yeast.
--
(Joel)shim...@poboxes.com
Daniel W Goodman
tall...@mabell.com wrote:
>
> Every book I've read on breadmaking says that you >MUST< dissolve active
> dry yeast in 105 - 115 degree F water. It seems like an inviolable rule.
> If the water's too hot, it will kill the yeast. If it's too cold, one
> book says the yeast's cells will be damaged: the cell contents will leak
> out, which will damage the dough, also.
>
> My latest bread book aquisition is Daniel Leader's Bread Alone. He
> advocates longer, slower, cooler rises. His recipes start with a sponge,
> which he calls a poolish, and he says he doesn't believe in
> "kick-starting" the yeast by dissolving it in warm water. He says the
> water temperature should be 75 deg F. I've tried one of his recipes, and
> it worked fine.
>
> Is the yeast damaged by cooler water?
>
I mix all dry ingredients, add hot water, and mix in a KitchenAid mixer.
The water is 120-125F. To kill contempory dry yeast takes tempertures
above 130F.
For more yeast & bread info see the Fleischmann's Yeast Page,
http://www.breadworld.com
Dan Goodman
Bruce H. Failor
Active dry yeast is a yeast which is developed to be dissolved prior to
use. It will work without dissolving but if you were doing laboratory
tests with all vaiables tightly controlled you would see that for
optimum yeast activity and gas production, this yeast does best when
dissloved in some water. (About 1/4 cup per package (or 2 1/4
teaspoons) is a good amount to use.) I have had great results in my
bread machine with Active Dry _and_ instant types of yeast.
With instant types of yeast (such as RapidRise) optimum gas production
is achieved when the yeast is mixed into the dough with the flour as
part of the dry ingredients. However, instant yeasts can also be
dissolved but again if you were doing laboratory tests you would find
that best results, as far as gas production goes, are achieved by mixing
the yeast in as a dry ingredient. When instant yeasts are dissloved,
the water has the potential to damage the yeast cell due to osmotic
pressure. Therefore, it is best to add 1 teaspoon of sugar to the 1/4
cup of water per package (or 2 1/4 teaspoons of yeast). I frequently
use RapidRise in the sponge method with good results.
The temperature of the liquid is a different question. Generally,
cooler liquid retards or actually stops the yeast action, depending on
how cold it is. Yeast will go into a dormant phase when conditions are
not right for its metabolism. So, yeast at the temperature of
refrigeration will go dormant when cooled to that degree.
Yeast also dies at about 138 degrees F. So of course, you do not want
to get to that temperature. Yeast even close to that temp will begin to
die off and will not work very well.
Which temperatures are chosen for raising and mixing breads has
something to do with how much yeast flavor development is desired, how
much time you have to devote to baking and the method you would like to
use. Longer slower rises, in addition to giving a better texture,
contribute to a more fully developed yeast flavor. Some breads have
quite a bit of flavor on their own, such as Cinnamon Raisin bread so it
may not be quite as essential to raise breads such as this in a long
slow manner and other breads are really good when made in a slow-rise
manner. Also, some persons do not like a very yeasty flavor which is
developed in the slow rise way and others love it.
I think it is important to remember that everyone has a different idea
of what terrific bread is like. Some persons like crisp crusts and
chewy interiors, some like rich tender interiors and soft crusts, some
like wonder bread, some like soft fluffy bread, some like rich, sweet
breads and others think sugar in bread is sacriledge. I think it is
important to know and make what you like. I like many different breads
all at different times.
Andrew Grant
>Every book I've read on breadmaking says that you >MUST< dissolve active
>dry yeast in 105 - 115 degree F water.......snip.......
>So my question is, why do most books insist on the higher temperatures?
>Is the yeast damaged by cooler water?
Because we've always done it that way! In cooking as in many other
"arts" there is a great deal of unsubstantiated mythology. I find that
common sense usually works.
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Andy Grant
Scott Wright
When I started making bread, many recipes included some steps to
proff the yeast, in varying amounts of water and at varying
temperatures. When I skipped this step, and just added the yeast along
with the flour, I found no difference in the final product.
In the recipes, the accompanying advice is: "to make sure the yeast
is still alive." Another possibility might be to speed up/encourage the
yeast. But I have heard many bakers advise a slow rise (even retarding
the yeast by letting the dough proof in the refrigerator), so maybe even
this counsel is only valid if you're in a hurry.
Ayways, as I said, I just add active dry yeast along with the flour.
Of course, with instant yeast, all this is moot.
Scott
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Wright
Engineering Design Automation, IBM Microelectronics Div., Fishkill, NY
currently on-site at: Synopsys, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Phone: 415-694-4217 IBM e-mail: sco...@vnet.ibm.com
e-mail: sco...@synopsys.com IBM VM: SCOTTWR at FSHVM1
Lea
No, you wont damage the yeast, it will just take longer. Some recipes
like a long slow rise and some don't. For traditional type basic
bread, I use 2 pks of yeast, water that is very warm to touch, (just
short of hot), and I sprinkle a pinch of sugar on top, and let it sit
5 minutes. That REALLY kick starts the yeast, but i get a perfect
loaf!
If your bread doesn't rise it is more likely due to not enough
kneading. If its tough, its usually OVER kneading. If it tastes
yeasty, it is over rising,. not too much yest.
Once you make a couple of perfect loaves of bread, you will do it all
the time. The trick is incorporating the flour slowly and correctly,
and kneading with a light touch until its JUST RIGHT.
Little blisters should be seen under the surface when you hold it up
to the light, and it should have just lost its stickyness, and feel
like it has a slight outer casing.
Also, the rising area must not be too hot. Just warm.
If you get the flour incorporation and kneading right, the rest is
very forgiving. One other thing, is that you can't follow the amount
of flour verbatim. Flour differs too much. Its a feel thing.
If you are doing this in a bread machine, then all bets off.
DO NOT USE YOUR REPLY BUTTON:
to e mail me send to lea at sirius dot com (all lower case)
<my reply address is altered to defeat junk mail>
Nicki
Andrew Grant wrote:
>
> Because we've always done it that way!
That isn't a bad answer but not totally correct. They used to do it all
the time because the quality of yeast varied so much. Think pre-vaccuum
packaging days. But it is also a good thing to do now because some yeast
is more granular than others. I buy my yeast in bulk, always the same
brand; but sometimes it is harder and grainier. If I just add it to the
flour (when making bread for instance) you can still see the little
grains throughout the dough after 10 minutes of kneading. So it isn't
becoming activated by the kneading yet. I have to knead alot more and
wait for a longer rest and rise.
You do not have to use hot or warm water to dissolve the yeast. 75
degrees is perfect for most breads. The dough will heat up by the
kneading action. BUt the point is that the yeast(dried) needs to be
dissolved to start working. It is still dead if it is dry. That is why
compressed *fresh* yeast is so nice to use.
Nicki
Warren Harding
Scott Wright wrote:
>
> When I started making bread, many recipes included some steps to
> proff the yeast, in varying amounts of water and at varying
> temperatures. When I skipped this step, and just added the yeast along
> with the flour, I found no difference in the final product.
>
> In the recipes, the accompanying advice is: "to make sure the yeast
> is still alive." Another possibility might be to speed up/encourage the
> yeast. But I have heard many bakers advise a slow rise (even retarding
> the yeast by letting the dough proof in the refrigerator), so maybe even
> this counsel is only valid if you're in a hurry.
>
> Ayways, as I said, I just add active dry yeast along with the flour.
> Of course, with instant yeast, all this is moot.
>
Scott, thia may be moot so far, but it won't be when you use yeast that
is dead. Then you will have to throw out all the ingredients in the
bread and start over, and the next time, proof the yeast to make sure it
is active and alive.
Been there, done that, and don't want to repeat the experience.
Warren
Robert Nase Johnson
Warren Harding wrote:
>
> Scott Wright wrote:
> >
> > When I started making bread, many recipes included some steps to
> > proff the yeast, in varying amounts of water and at varying
> > temperatures. When I skipped this step, and just added the yeast a
Cutty Cutty
> >
>
> Scott, thia may be moot so far, but it won't be when you use yeast that
> is dead. Then you will have to throw out all the ingredients in the
> bread and start over, and the next time, proof the yeast to make sure it
> is active and alive.
>
> Been there, done that, and don't want to repeat the experience.
> Warren
Warren -- I've had amazing luck taking "un-risen" or "not-risen enuf"
dough out of the rising bowl, or even the bread pan and sticking it back
in the Kitchen Aid for another go with more yeast, more white flour or
some "vital wheat gluten". Of course, I come up with more dough, but hey,
make some rolls or a small loaf. Beats giving it to the dog or sending it
down the tubes. This is one place where a bread machine probably won't
work, by itself anyway.
Rob Johnson