Fridge before baking
Luke Skywalker
I have followed in the recent years the "parallel line" of baking with yeast
(testing many of them, mixing them and reproducing them at home with great
pleasure and with great insuccesses!).
In the case of the pizza the passage in the fridge is obviously required as
a magical balance between ripening and rising.
In the case of sourdough this seems to me still unclear.
Can someone help with the theory and the practice of storing the dough in
the fridge before baking?
Luke Skywalker
Kenneth
<frs...@tiscaliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiNOSPAM.it> wrote:
>Can someone help with the theory and the practice of storing the dough in
>the fridge before baking?
Howdy,
I cannot tell you why, but I can tell you that virtually every bread I
bake is improved by such a process.
The taste is better, and the breads have a crust that I prefer. The
crusts are "chewier" and have a sweet-sour more complex taste that I
love.
In another thread there were some thoughts about a technique published
in one of the Reinhart (sp?) books. He calls it Pain Ancienne (I
believe) and describes that the approach was developed by a fellow who
is currently very successful in Paris.
It involves using the coldest ingredients, most particularly, ice
water, and storing the very cold dough for about 24 hours before any
fermentation starts. These breads are made with commercial yeast BTW.
In any case, I tried the technique and the results were remarkable.
This approach produced the best (conventionally yeasted) baguettes I
have ever tasted.
I have been experimenting with this approach for some of my naturally
leavened breads and will soon have something more to post here.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Ernie
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:59:17 +0100, "Luke Skywalker"
> <frs...@tiscaliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiNOSPAM.it> wrote:
>
> >Can someone help with the theory and the practice of storing
the dough in
> >the fridge before baking?
The flavor is enhanced by the time the starter takes to peak and
the time the bread takes to rise. Warm temperature shortens the
time required. Cold temperature extends the time.
Ernie
Charles Perry
Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>... thoughts about a technique published
> in one of the Reinhart (sp?) books. He calls it Pain Ancienne (I
> believe) and describes that the approach ...
>
> ...involves using the coldest ingredients, most particularly, ice
> water, and storing the very cold dough for about 24 hours before any
> fermentation starts. These breads are made with commercial yeast BTW.
>
> Kenneth, When I tried to emulate that style of bread, I ended up mixing the water and most of the flour and storing it in the refrigerator for 24 hours before adding the sourdough starter. Although this got me most of the anticipated results, another sourdough baker of great skill was unable to get the same results with that method.
Good luck,
Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to: che...@aol.com
** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **
Kenneth
wrote:
>> Kenneth, When I tried to emulate that style of bread, I ended up mixing the water and most of the flour and storing it in the refrigerator for 24 hours before adding the sourdough starter. Although this got me most of the anticipated results, another sourdough baker of great skill was unable to get the same results with that method.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Charles
>--
>Charles Perry
>Reply to: che...@aol.com
>
Hi Charles,
There was something odd about the threading, so I must ask:
Are the comments above yours?
In any case, generally, here's what I have done:
I chill everything first: flour, water, grains, etc.
Then, I ferment the starter. When it is ready, I chill it.
I mix the dough, and put it in the fridge. About 24 hours later, I
form the loaves, let 'em proof, and bake.
The process is certainly a PITA, but the results have been worth the
effort.
Charles Perry
Kenneth wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Good luck,
> >
> Are the comments above yours?
>
It was I.
I did not like the result when I used a very tiny innoculation
with SD culture analogus to the small amount of bakers yeast,
although I no longer recall why. When I used a normal amount of
SD culture, I had trouble with the fermentation proceding too
quickly even in the refrigerator. (I did not chill the flour.
That is a great idea I must try)
The problems that I had along with the thought that a good deal
of the change in results came from simply having the flour wet
for a longer period of time led me to mix a dough and refrigerate
it and add the SD culture after 24 hours. It is a real PITA to
get it mixed in. particularly by hand. However, as they say, the
wife liked it and the kids ate it all up.
Regards,
Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to: che...@aol.com
** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **
Kenneth
Please see my comments inline below...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:25:56 GMT, Charles Perry <che...@NOSPAM.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Kenneth wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Good luck,
>> >
>
>
>> Are the comments above yours?
>>
>
>It was I.
And you are a better man for owning up to it! <g>
>
>I did not like the result when I used a very tiny innoculation
>with SD culture analogus to the small amount of bakers yeast,
>although I no longer recall why. When I used a normal amount of
>SD culture, I had trouble with the fermentation proceding too
>quickly even in the refrigerator. (I did not chill the flour.
>That is a great idea I must try)
I had the same problem (that is, the fermentation moving too quickly)
and it was in response that I came up with the idea of putting the
flour in the freezer. It is, indeed, my only "great" idea. Perhaps I
am overstating, but I do sense a Nobel Prize coming on...
I experienced just what you did. I mixed up the (hopefully chilled)
dough, stuck a thermometer into it to check its temp, and was
surprised that it was something like 65F. That was not very cool at
all. Then I realized that I was mixing the ice water with all the
(relatively) warm dry stuff.
>
>The problems that I had along with the thought that a good deal
>of the change in results came from simply having the flour wet
>for a longer period of time led me to mix a dough and refrigerate
>it and add the SD culture after 24 hours. It is a real PITA to
>get it mixed in. particularly by hand. However, as they say, the
>wife liked it and the kids ate it all up.
>
>Regards,
>
>Charles
Again, you are describing something that I have experimented with. I
often mix the water and flour long prior to the time I will be using
for later stages. Of course, mixing in the starter by hand would be a
pain, but I mix (almost) everything by machine (a 20 quart ancient
Hobart known in our home (for reasons lost to time) as "Ed."
I don't know if you have read the Reinhart (that is the spelling)
piece on Pain Ancienne, but that name for the bread is amusing.
Reinhart rhapsodizes about the ancient heritage of the approach.
Actually, it would be all but impossible to do the bread prior to the
age of refrigeration.
It would better be called "Pain Moderne" or some such...
zerkanX
> Can someone help with the theory and the practice of storing the dough in
> the fridge before baking?
>
I developed an apple sourdough bread at a small commercial bakery.
The bread was built up from a very stiff, very active starter (45 -50 % hyd.) and the
final dough (65%~ hyd.) was retarded in a 34F cooler for three days. I pulled the
dough out of the cooler for a 14 hr. warmup/ferment.
All the liquid used was raw apple cider. I soaked some chopped dry apples in
juice and rum overnight before adding to the dough.