Female Wrestling PSYCHOLOGY - How I got interested
Tom Perf
female wrestling". These theories, although they may well be correct, are not very
specific and personal. I would therefore like to relate a detailed account of how I got
attracted to female wrestling.
What follows is a lengthy account of how my fetish developed. It is very personal and,
to be honest, probably very boring. It involves a lot of "psychology". Although, I
have no background at all in psychology, I've tried to relate - in my own layman terms
- how my fixation and obsession with female wrestling started in early childhood.
If you don't like to read the psychological profile of a "pervert", then please stop
now. Chris Ravenden responded to another person who used the term "pervert" by telling
him "(you) don't like yourself very much, do you?" Quite frankly, I don't like myself
very much, particularly when it comes to my obsession with female wrestling.
Also, this "analysis" contains very strong, explicit, and vulgar language. I
apologize for this but it is hard to explain a lot of things without being very
graphic. So please do not read any further if strong and explicit language offends you.
For those female wrestling fans who do read it, I would be interested in knowing if
your fetish developed in a manner similar to mine.
Tom Perf
Sorry!! Somehow, I was unable to attach the file containing my story correctly. I
noticed that some of the material had been erased or destroyed when I tried to send the
file. I am reposting and hope the erased and destroyed material appear this time. I
hope it goes through without damage.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I don't know EXACTLY how my interest in female wrestling developed.
> But I have some idea.
>
> I must have been around three years old. I went to a movie where
> there was a fight scene. I vaguely recall this. The fight was
> between two men - not women. There was also, I think, an exciting
> (to a 3 year old) horse back riding "chase" in the film. These two
> scenes - the fight scene and horse back riding "chase" - left an
> indelible impression on me.
>
> I was an only child until I was about seven years old. (I have
> only one sister who is seven years younger than I). Partly because
> of the loneliness, I used to "play act" movies a lot.
>
> When I came home from the movie, I started to "act out" the fight
> scene as well as the horse back riding scene since those were the
> most exciting scenes in the movie.
>
> I began playing the roles of both actors and acting out the fight
> scene at home - throwing punches, receiving punches, rolling all
> over the carpet, jumping up and down. For a minute or two, I acted
> as the hero throwing a punch; a minute later, I was the villain
> receiving a punch, etc. I found it very exciting and fun to
> fantasize like this. Acting out the fight scene between the two
> men had really excited me and had my adrenalin flowing.
>
> I loved the play acting and was totally engrossed in it. I FELT
> the emotions of the actors while I relived the entire fight. In
> short, I acted out the entire scene, the ACTIONS and behavior (the
> punching, the rolling around, the physical exertion, etc.) as well
> as the DEEP EMOTIONS - the pain of receiving a blow, the
> satisfaction of delivering a punch, the anger and hatred for the
> other guy, all of which I vividly IMAGINED.
>
> Soon I started to act out the horse back riding "chase" scene.
> This was done IMMEDIATELY AFTER the fight scene that I had acted
> out so I was still very excited.
>
> While pretending I was the star of the movie riding a horse real
> fast, I lay down on the floor, on my stomach. I began moving my
> groin up and down against the floor pretending I was riding the
> horse faster & faster.
>
> The friction and stimulation caused by pushing up and down against
> the floor with my groin excited me sexually. I got an erection,
> and I kept at it because of the pleasure. I could not understand
> it, but I loved it and felt totally turned on. I could not help
> but continue rubbing my groin against the floor. I soon had a
> "climax".
>
> Of course, being so young, there was no sperm involved. But I had masturbated. And the pleasure was just as strong as what I would feel in later years when I would
actually ejaculate. This, of course, is not the conventional way men masturbate,
something I would find out years later. Most men masturbate using their hands.
> It is much easier and involves almost no pain. But I accidently
> learned to masturbate by rubbing my penis against the floor. During the first few years, it was painful and uncomfortable. But since I became conditioned and used to it,
after a while, it gradually involved very little pain and discomfort. I have
> continued to masturbate to this day in this fashion, the way I discovered and "self-learned" it.
>
> It is important to note that I had ACTED out the FIGHT scene in great detail and with much EMOTION prior to masturbating. I think that learning to masturbate while acting
out a fight scene was what eventually led to a Pavlovian response and sexual "turn on"
to female fighting.
>
> (The interesting question, which will be addressed later, is why
> fighting between women turned me on and not fighting between men,
> particularly in view of the fact that my first "play acting" and
> discovery of masturbation was related to two men fighting.)
>
> I have ever since associated sexual gratification and erotic
> stimulation with female FIGHTING. This initial experience was very
> powerful because the fighting that preceded the masturbation had
> all the ingredients of what would continue to turn me on about
> female wrestling in the years to come.
>
> While I was first masturbating at the age of three, I was THINKING,
> FEELING, and ACTING what I was imagining - PAIN (from simulating
> the role and feelings of the recipient of the punches, and from the
> slight PAIN of rubbing my penis on the floor), HATRED, ANGER,
> APPLYING HOLDS, BEING SUBJECTED TO HOLDS, etc. I fully EXPERIENCED
> these feelings while acting out the emotions of the participants in
> the fight.
>
> In particular, I think the slight PAIN I experienced while
> masturbating is very important. Masturbating using the floor is
> somewhat uncomfortable and a little painful. It requires rubbing
> your penis on the floor hard and this is slightly painful. It also
> involves some physical STRAINING and EXERTION. This "stimulating
> pain" or "pleasurable pain" directly correlates to the pain I was
> IMAGINING and RELIVING EMOTIONALLY while acting out the scene. It
> further strengthened my associating fighting, physical exertion,
> and pain with sexual gratification.
>
> I discovered the tremendous importance of all this only very, very,
> very recently. I must digress here for a minute, and move from my
> experience as a three year old to my experience as a forty year
> old, to last year to be exact. I signed on to America Online for
> the first time over a year ago and started wrestling women, using
> a female screen name and posing as a woman.
>
> I admit this is wrong and unethical. I am truly ashamed that I did that but, unfortunately, I have no self-control when it comes to female wrestling. And I will
never do it again; in fact, I'm no longer on AOL.
>
> I'd like to compare the FEELINGS I experienced when I "PERSONALLY"
> wrestled other women on America Online as opposed to what I feel
> while watching a female wrestling video. On video, I am not
> directly involved and I am a passive observer. I do enjoy watching
> female wrestling very much. I LOVE it. But on AOL, it was
> different. MY whole being was involved - THOUGHTS, EMOTIONS, &
> ACTIONS - as I dished out holds and blows, felt the pain of
> getting hurt, felt the power of hitting and controlling the other
> person, felt the anger and rivalry with the other woman; in short,
> I felt that my body and soul was directly, deeply and totally
> involved. I must say, I still by far would prefer watching female
> wrestling. But PERSONALLY wrestling online with a woman can be
> stimulating also.
>
> Again, the first masturbation experience described above must have
> happened at around three years of age. I know because when I
> turned three, my family moved to the U.S.; and I am certain that my
> first masturbation happened before we moved to the United States.
>
> In the years to come, I started wrestling with other boys in
> school. I found I had erections and got sexually aroused when I
> wrestled other boys. The most important reason for this was the
> friction and slight stimulation related to rubbing my penis against
> another body in tight holds. (This gave me a similar sensation and
> stimulation as when I rubbed my penis against the floor to
> masturbate). Of course, the friction and slight pain involved in
> rubbing my penis against another body in tight holds was not as
> strong as the friction and pain I experienced when I rubbed my
> penis directly and purposely against the floor when I masturbated.
> But the friction involved in wrestling boys was sufficient to
> arouse me sexually.
>
> Most importantly, I was wrestling other boys for REAL. Actual
> wrestling revived all the feelings and sensations I imagined and
> experienced when I was masturbating. There was the competition,
> the rivalry, the anger, the hatred, the excitement of confronting
> another person, the pain delivered, the pain received, the
> adrenalin, the effort, the exertion, the close holds, the struggle,
> the friction of rubbing my penis against another body, and, above
> all, the fact that it was a REAL FIGHT - all of these vividly
> brought back all the stimuli related to my first masturbation.
>
> I never felt sexually attracted to other boys. I am not and have
> never been gay. The only time I felt turned on to other boys was
> when I was wrestling them. Once the wrestling was over, the sexual
> arousal was over. I was turned on because of the WRESTLING, not
> the other boys.
>
> Occasionally as a child, I would wrestle girls my age. This REALLY sexually aroused me! The turn on was QUADRUPLE what I felt when I wrestled boys. I was not yet turned
on to girls at all. There was no sexual attraction to girls. I just felt sexually
attracted to girls only while wrestling them. Both before and after the
> wrestling, I no longer felt any attraction to the girl. The sexual
> attraction to girls, in a normal, non-wrestling, erotic sense,
> would, of course, develop many years later with the onset of
> puberty.
>
> Between the ages of three and seven, I started watching
> professional wrestling on TV. When I watched the men wrestle,
> nothing happened. However, when the women wrestled, I got
> uncontrollable erections, and I had to masturbate.
>
> Two interesting questions arise. (1) How come, as a child,
> wrestling girls turned me on four times as much as wrestling boys?
> (2) Given the fact that my first "fantasy" that led me to
> masturbate was of MEN wrestling, why was it that watching women
> wrestle turned me on?
>
> I think that even at such an early age, there must be a natural
> predisposition in boys to be sexually attracted to girls; a sexual
> attraction to the opposite sex lies dormant in boys. However, this
> feeling is not fully awakened until adolescence.
>
> In other words, boys are inherently "programmed" to be attracted to
> girls, and this "mental program" is innate and latent, buried deep
> in every child's being. Thus, even at three years of age, a child
> not only has strong sexual urges, but also, and more importantly,
> a powerful attraction to the opposite sex. These feelings are not,
> to repeat, fully aroused, kindled and awakened until puberty. But
> the inherent, powerful sexual attraction is there.
>
> To substantiate this, I will repeat two facts mentioned above. (1)
> Wrestling little girls turned me on four times as much as wrestling
> boys. (2) While watching professional wrestling, whenever the men
> wrestled, I wasn't turned on. But when the women wrestled, I was
> sexually aroused.
>
> When I reached adolescence and became interested in girls, I would
> naturally feel sexually attracted to girls. But the attraction
> would quadruple when I imagined them WRESTLING other girls.
>
> Another thing I remember from childhood. I know this will sound
> VERY STRANGE, but it's true. Years later, say between the ages of
> eight and eleven, I saw scenes in films of horses fighting. I
> clearly remember seeing the TV series "Fury" where the horse (named
> Fury) fought other horses. That would sometimes arouse me
> sexually!
>
> I believe this was related to how I originally learned to
> masturbate. Again, keep in mind that I first learned to masturbate
> while fantasizing about a movie I had watched when I was around
> three. The movie had an exciting horse "chase" scene. It also had a fight scene. I first acted out the fight scene. Then, I acted out the horse back riding scene. It was
while I was rubbing my penis on the floor, "humping" and going up and down constantly,
> pretending I was riding a horse and chasing another horse rider, that I accidently learned to masturbate. In other words, I actually masturbated while pretending to ride
a horse fast rather than while acting out the fight. This may explain why "horse
> fighting" scenes turned me on.
>
> Of course, I felt no attraction to horses whatsoever. Just looking
> at horses didn't turn me on. Only when the horses FOUGHT was I a
> bit turned on. I do not want to exaggerate this. I did not get
> erections or uncontrollable sexual urges when the horses fought.
> However, sometimes, when the horses fought I would get slightly
> turned on.
>
> I guess, this was due mostly to the fact that I already KNEW how to
> masturbate and had been sexually awakened. Therefore, I was always
> "searching" for themes that would stimulate me. I rarely saw any
> women wrestling, of course. So during those childhood years, I
> would usually masturbate only to enjoy the stimulation. Thus, I
> would hardly ever masturbate due to any visual stimulation or an
> actual female wrestling match. But I would instead masturbate
> without fantasizing or using my imagination. I would masturbate to
> experience the physical pleasure and sexual stimulation of rubbing
> my penis against the floor/bed.
>
> However, the "horse-related" circumstances of my initial
> masturbation experience, the fact that the horses were FIGHTING,
> the underlying association between fighting, horses, eroticism
> together - all of these combined with the fact that I already knew
> how to masturbate and to enjoy "self-stimulation", triggered something
> in my subconscious, and helped stimulate my latent sexual urges.
>
> An interesting thing I remember about the horse fighting scenes is
> that I felt a little turned on by the horse's butts! While
> watching two horses fight, I was not turned on by their heads,
> hoofs, ears, etc. But I liked focusing on their derrieres when
> they tangled.
>
> I think I liked watching a horse's derriere during a fight because
> that part of a horse is the part that most resembles a human
> being's body part. What is attractive about a woman? Her breasts,
> legs and butt. Well, a horse has no breasts. A horse does have
> legs, but a horse's legs differ greatly in appearance from a
> woman's legs. There really isn't anything sexy about a horse's
> legs. However, a horse's butt, although different in appearance
> from a human butt, at least resembles a human derriere to some
> extent. When the horses fought, I would get a little aroused but
> it was their butts - and, to a lesser extent, perhaps the
> physical exertion - that attracted me.
>
> This slight physical resemblance is important. It explains why,
> for example, a fight between dogs or cats, or any other animals, never turned me on. There is very little physical resemblance between these animals and human beings.
>
> To this day, the part of a woman I find most sexy is her butt. I'm
> not attracted to fat butts or fat women. But I love women who have
> big hips and a "curvaceous" butt. And when women wrestle, the
> shots or holds I like the most are those in which one women's butt
> is clearly visible or on top of the other woman.
>
> For example, I love the match between Beatrice Goffin and Ali Day ªwhich was released by Video Sports, Ltd. many years ago. The holds Beatrice Goffin applies to Ali Day in
their match is very sexy in my view. Often, when Beatrice's entire body is on top of
Ali, I love the view of Beatrice's butt. Beatrice wiggles her derriere slightly on top
of Ali to gain leverage and a favorable position and to force Ali - by other means and
pressure - to finally submit.
> Anyhow, in female wrestling, I enjoy "buttocks shots" the most.
> This can be traced in part, I think, to my early experience in
> masturbating via "horse fantasies" and focusing on horses butts
> when they fought.
>
> Perhaps this fixation on buttocks was also related to the fact
> that, throughout childhood, the two women closest to me in my life
> had big hips (not fat but somewhat big). The women were my mother
> and a female relative who actually lived with us for about two
> years when I was around five or six years old. I say this only
> because I remember during childhood masturbating a few times while
> fantasizing that my mother and this female relative were wrestling.
>
> Later, during puberty, when I became attracted to women, I found a
> woman's derriere to be the most attractive part of a woman. In
> fact, for a long time during adolescence, I thought having
> intercourse and the way babies were "made" was by penetrating a
> woman from the "rear"! As I grew up, I was surprised to learn that
> men and women actually have intercourse and procreate through a
> woman's vagina.
>
> All of the above - wrestling little boys and occasionally little
> girls, watching professional wrestling on T.V. - happened between
> the ages of three and seven since it occurred while we were in the
> U.S. My family left the States when I was seven years old, and we
> lived overseas in several different countries for many years
> thereafter. I watched the horse fighting scenes, from the "Fury"
> T.V. series when I was between seven and eleven because I remember
> I was overseas in another country where that series was broadcast.
>
> When I grew up, I would often masturbate when I saw a sexy woman.
> But during childhood, since I was not yet attracted to girls,
> therefore, I would not masturbate when I saw a sexy woman.
>
> Throughout my childhood, however, every time I saw a fight between
> two women, I would get out of control, and I would have to
> masturbate.
For instance, I remember watching the movie "Carmen" with Rita Hayworth. I must have
been around five or six years old. The very brief fight really aroused me and I
remember masturbating soon after watching the fight. (Now when I watch the movie, the
fight> scene is so brief, so tame, and so dull compared to other fight scenes that were
done later on). But although for several weeks afterwards, I would masturbate while
fantasizing about the fight in Carmen, I never was aroused or masturbated when seeing
sexy women on the street. In other words, sexual arousal through female fighting (in
> childhood) long preceded my sexual interest in women (during adolescence).
>
> I knew that lying on the floor and rubbing my penis against the
> floor (or the mattress) would give me pleasure and cause me to
> "orgasm". But throughout childhood I did this moderately. I did
> it more than I should have only because I was, for the most part,
> an only child and I lived overseas in many countries without
> friends or relatives, and thus out of boredom, loneliness, and lack
> of any entertainment, I masturbated moderately.
>
> Well, this was how my interest in female wrestling developed.
>
> I have continued to be an avid wrestling fan throughout my
> adulthood. The joy and pleasure I derive from it are immense.
>
> But it has also caused me much pain, TREMENDOUS pain. I have
> always felt abnormal and weird because of this secret hobby. I
> feel truly ashamed about it, and feel I'm a pervert.
>
> I would do anything, ANYTHING to get over it. But, alas, I have
> come to the conclusion that I can't control it and, regrettably,
> the female wrestling obsession has controlled me. I am ADDICTED to
> it. And, unfortunately, I will have to live with it for the rest
> of my life. I couldn't wish a more damning curse upon anyone.
>
> I have written all this down because...to be honest, I don't know
> why. Once I started writing, I felt compelled to continue. I hope
> it will be read by others - especially therapists and psychologists - and also expanded upon by other men who are experiencing this
> painful obsession.
>
> Perhaps what I've written, may possibly encourage others to examine
> how they got hooked on female wrestling and to share their personal
> experience. May be together, we can all help each other in
> understanding and allaying what is, at least for me, a painful,
> paralyzing, debilitating, and strange obsession.
Hal316
I am one person who remembers the way I got this way.
I lived in a Ultra Right Wing all white all prot enclave called San Marino
as a child. There were no restaurants, theaters or places to recreate in
San Marino. Children were to be seen not heard. Men came home from work,
loosened their ties and plopped down on the chair to recieve their first
martini from Mom, who was Donna Reed on the outside and Fredericks of
Hollywood undernieth make certain the House was out of Sunset Magazine and
the veal wasn't getting too dry. A neccessary second martini could mean
dry meat, and dry meat meant a Mad Daddy.
We were Christian Capitalist Republicans, and i was called out of my bed
room just befor dinner was served to file my report before being either
dismmissed to the table or discussed as if I were a rubber tree plant.
Passion was vulger. Touching was Homo. When supper was over I was free to
return to my room. I would read. My parents thought I wasn't butch enough.
Real boys don't like to read. Real boys like Cub Scouts and make parents
proud. They suspected the adoption agency secretly slipped them a Jew...
God was a homocidal manic-depressive and Luther was his Prophet. Jesus was
a smarmy used car salesman hired by Heaven to give a suger coating the the
Real Deal of the Old Testament.
I remember the first unhinged passion I ever witnessed. I was seven and
MOM was driving in the Hinchaws parking lot looking for a spot and getting
cranky. A woman in a sports car cut her off and got Her Spot. My MOMMY
screamed:
"That Bitch! I'll calw her eyes out." Little Hal blinked, hands in his
lap. The Law is, if Mom "is in one of her Modds" act as if nothing was
going on. I didn't know then her moods came out of the water glass full of
gin not water she kept by the kitchen sink.
But I knew passion was a blast.
When I was was 10 my parents bought a weekend house in Palm Springs where
nothing happened and it was my fault anyway because I was taking advantage
of her being drunk and after all it was the Man who wants it. And nothing
ever happened . Ever. But I wished it did.
I remember being beat up by a girl 2 grades ahead of me when I got off the
bus in 2nd grade every day for 2 weeks. She was huge and had red hair and
smelled REAL bad and I cried to mommy and mommy would swollow the rest of
the glass by the sink and say "Don't do anything to embarrass me" And I
wished she'd protect me...
I rememeber reading a pocketbook on child rearing my parents had
illustrated by the guy who did the Sunday Comic "The Family Circle". He
showed a boys fantasies of a pirate ship. Pirates are figjhting...then
suddenly naked women pirates stormed aboard, swords out. This illustrated
a child discovering sex in his fantasies. I discovered MY THING.
I stoled from Religion. Every night I would fantasize a Planet all women
but me and their would be Roman Games. ON THE THIRD DAY women killed would
come back to life so I could pair them off against women they hadn't
fought yet. I was 12 and discovering you can masterbate 20 times in a row
and live....
Then I discovered a used book store in Pasadena that sold men's
magazines.... gypsy cat fights, gun molls, whore brawls.... He knew.... we
were brothers in OUR THING. I discovered XXX rated sex books introduced by
PHDs about teen girls in chain gangs... you fuck and fight you come to a
Bad End. That's Morality. I undrestood that kind of Morality. I was raised
a Lutheren....
Then I got a b&w tv of my own. Strait "A"s... my parents were embarrassed
not to be able to say no. And I discovered midnight reruns.
No body knew. They're not supposed to. But it's MY THING, you know...
I'm 46 and I can still lean sideways into the FIGHT ZONE and feel THAT HOT
RED UNSPEAKABLE.... feeling.
Guilt is gone. Youth is gone. MOM is gone. Lies aren't secrets anymore.
But the Bottom Drawer still has it's OLD BLACK MAGIC. Wanna see an old
Super-8 reel of Rene Bond after she got her tits fighting Bridget Monet'
for the right to breed with me?
It gets bigger doesn't it?
HAL316
Dr. Seuss
Tom Perf wrote:
> > For those female wrestling fans who do read it, I would be interested in knowing if your fetish developed in a manner similar to mine.
Well, I see some parallels between your experience and mine, but some differences, too.
I too began to fantasize about women fighting at an early age. Perhaps as young as three, but looking back
from my current age of 39, it's hard to be precise. It was before kindergarten age, at least and, I admit
this with a certain amount of embarassment, prior to the time the incest/Oedipal taboo set in.
As I indicated in an earlier posting, my fantasies started as a way of selecting between two women/girls I was
attracted to - as a means of deciding which was better, in other words. The fight scenario provided a means
by which this could be accomplished and, at the same time, visualized. It's been there ever since although
later in life, after the age at which I began to interact sexually with the opposite sex, it took on an added
dimension - acceptance of it became an important way in which a woman could demonstrate her love for or
acceptance of me. It also served as a means by which I could achieve emotional closeness.
I never had any wrestling expereinces as a child that I would consider to have erotic implications. I can't
recall ever having wrestled a little girl (I imagine I missed something here :)), and never found wrestling
with boys anything but awkward and embarassing. Particularly when my opponent _did_ find it a cause for
sexual arousal - which was kind of common, as I recall now.
Also, I have never identified with either of the "players" in my fantasies in the way you have. For me, my
fantasies are exclusively voyeuristic experiences - although I will admit the thought of having a fight occur
over _me_ is "interesting."
Finally, your discussion of the horse scenario made remember something I don;t think I would have recalled
under other circumstances. I once remember, as a small child, having a similar response to a scene of two
dinosaurs fighting (yes, it's true!) in some cheesy old horror movie. I seem to remember pretending that each
of the participants represented a woman I knew and, well - you get the picture I'm sure. How embarassing! I
haven't though of that in decades!
Personally, I think you're being too hard on yourself. You referred to your fetish as "a painful,
paralyzing, debilitating, and strange obsession." I know what you mean by this and would like to speak about
your perspective, a bit and in so doing talk a little about my experiences in the hope you might change your
views - just a little.
Like everything else, I think this "condition" is a mixed blessing. For me, it has made me much more
sympathetic to others (everyone has a story, after all) and much less judgemental. Early on I came to be much
less critical and more compassionate toward others, and can truly empathize with the feelings that racial and
ethnic minorities, homosexuals, and a variety of other "outcasts" must experience at various points in their
lives. Its made me sensitive to how cruel it is to shame anyone - especially about what they are. This is
turn has made me a much better husband, father, supervisor, etc. that I ever would have been, I'm sure.
But that's good for the people I deal with in life. From my perspective, however, the results have not all
been so positive. I'd say that in my own way I am somewhat religious, and have a deep moral sense, so have
had a great deal of difficulty reconciling myself with the violent aspect of my fantasy life. Because I feel
shame about myself (a lot more earlier in life than I do now), I have always tended to be a little distant in
my dealing with others - perhaps feeling that I could never be completely open for fear of judgement. And, of
course, this "interest" has shaped my dealing with the opposite sex in ways that I probably don't have to
expound upon. Moreover, I spent a great deal of my life walking around with a sort of simmering anger within
myself - not toward women, but toward people in general. Why is it, for example, that it is socially
acceptable to be a minority, be gay, even (in some circles) be a transvestite but, by and large, I would be
considered at best kinky and at worst sick - on the basis of what I think, not even what I do? What makes one
way of life or set of behaviors eccentric and another disturbed? Resentment. Jealousy. Poisonous emotions.
I don't know. But as I near 40 and reflect upon all that I have seen in life, I realize that it doesn't
matter. Life really isn't fair, and it certainly is short. So the anger is just sort of slipping away.
Fuck 'em all, if you know what I mean.
Seuss
Dr. Seuss
Hal316 wrote:
>
> It gets bigger doesn't it?
As you get older you find out how hard the world really is. You find that intelligence and imagination really
aren't valued. In fact, they're considered subversive. Obedience is what counts. Nice guys do finish last.
The _mean_ one takes the prize. Disappointments with school, the military, work, and women. Nothing is what
it was supposed to be. At least what they showed me it was on TV when I was growing up. And _it's_ always
there to make you feel better. You close your eyes and let the mind you're not allowed to use during the day
out to wander around a little and suddenly you're in a place where you've transcended time and anything can
happen. You can get away from it all - escape all the limits that have been set for you by others in the real
world. It's seductive and the worse things get on the outside, the more you're tempted to turn inwards. As
each illusion is stripped away, the need for comfort and consolation grows. At least that's been my
experience.
I see so much of my early life in what Hal316 wrote. Middle class. Pretty well off, actually. Instead of a
gin bottle, there were pill bottles. A humiliating father who bullied me physically and verbally until I was
old enough to fight back. And then I saw what a coward he really was. A mother who would commiserate with me
after the fact, but did nothing to stop the abuse. Parents who slept in separate rooms as far back as I can
remember. God, in retrospect, when I compare it to the kind of life I've tried to make for my kids, I realize
how bad it really was. Having heard what Tom Perf and Hal316 have written about their early lives, and the
similarity of their experiences to mine, it would certainly seem that a miserable home life in early childhood
is a prerequisite to the formation of a fetish like that we have been discussing.
Pretty much isolated through my teen years. A few good friends but not a lot of them. Painfully shy around
the opposite sex. A chronic underachiever academically. Filled in the time with books and television. And,
of course, an active fantasy life. Went to a huge high school. There were so many interesting combinations
to be imagined, though :).
Used to scan the TV listings every Sunday looking for movies that contained good fight scenes. Found a place
to buy mags when I hit my teens. A cigar store. Sports Review Wrestling. Old guy behind the counter used to
scowl at me whenever I'd make a buy. He'd always ask me "Want a _bag_ for that????" with a frown on his face.
He must have known. Pretty embarassing.
Got a job with a big company at 19 after dropping out of college. After a year I went back for evening
classes. Made a lot of money. Finished my undergraduate degree in 3 years. Met a girl, lost my virginity.
Made a lot of money. Bought a house at 21. Promotions. A couple of Masters degrees. Got married and had
kids.
But it was still there. I still needed it. I still need it. I'm still 12 years old inside. And as I get
older and more cynical, I sometimes think that part of me is beoming more dominant. Or maybe the stuff that I
covered it up with is just being stripped away. I think maybe that's just a sign of the times. The world is
changing so fast. So many books have been written about it. I'm sure I don't have anything original to say
about it. Maybe I've got the postmodernist disease. Or maybe that's just what I really am.
So, how is it today? Well, I've got a pretty good life. I've got a lot of things, you might say. I adore my
kids. We have a lot of pets. I've got a lot of hobbies. I'm back in school again (I really don't know why -
I hate it). But, aside from my kids, there is an emotional void in my world, I guess you'd say. My marriage
isn't that great for one. You see, early on in our relationship my wife had to overcome a cocaine addiction
and, after she beat it, she decided it wasn't in my best interest to continue "humoring" me. She equated my
"hobby" with her addiction, and decided it was time for me to "kick the habit" as well. Was she right? I
don't know. But I do know that I felt judged and deprived. Rightly or wrongly, her participation in my
fantasy life was the means by which she was able to reach me emotionally, and me her. Now that that's been
taken away, I just find it so hard to "connect." The stress is beginning to show at times, I think, and is
reflected in my dealings with others in many ways.
You know, the thing that bothers me the most about the relatively few messages that have been posted in this
thread is the abject despair that comes through in some of them. I really do wish there was something that I
could say or do to make people feel better about this. I think that the people that feel so much guilt are
good people. In order to feel guilt you've got to have a conscience, and in order to be a good person you've
got to have a conscience. I've had a good life. I've never hurt anyone. I've been very successful in most
areas and occasional (all right, constant :)) fantasies about women I know beating the piss out of each other
never interfered with anything I did unless I let my guilt and fear of discovery paralyze me. I think _my_
biggest mistake was in letting my wife get away with it so easily when she decided to "pull the plug" on me a
few years back. I shouldn't have accepted the judgement implicit in that action so willingly. After all, it
was her acceptance of me for what I was that led me to marry her in the first place.
It's interesting how sometimes things come together in life and affect you in ways you couldn't have imagined.
As I've been participating in this discussion I've been reading the recent biography of Robert McNamara who,
as you may recall, was Secretary of Defense during the early years of the Vietnam war. There was a quote from
Carl Jung used to introduce one of the chapters that went something like this: "When a man splits his
personality into two or more separate and discrete 'lives' in a effort to enable himself to function in two
conflicting worlds that can't be reconciled, neurosis and all the symptoms that accompany it will result." I
think that there's a lot of truth in that. I know that's true in my case and from what I've read here, I
suspect it's true in a lot of others. I think the consequences of _not_ facing up to it and enjoying it
without shame are much worse than the act itself. I think the best thing I (and maybe all of us) can do is to
accept myself for what I am and go from there. There's nothing wrong with what I or you do, it's just
thoughts. They have no existence in the material world and don't affect anyone's life. It's not gonna change
for me, and it's probably not gonna for you either. And it is fun! I've worked hard all my life and have
tried to be perfect. I think I'm entitled to a little. I'm not advocating going public here, but I do think
privately I have a right to do what I want as long as I hold up my social responsibilities. I think you do
too.
My 40th birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks. What do I really want? To be honest, a good catfight
fantasy. That's it. And I want my wife to participate. "Humor" me a little.
There's a woman who lives next door to me. Diane is her name. About 28 I think. Maybe 5'5", no more than
105 lbs. Green eyes. Thick, long brown hair down to her butt. Figure like a fashion model. Slows traffic
when she's working around the yard out in front of her house. Bad temper, mean as a snake at times. I'd
really like to see her fight. An opponent. Let's see . . . Well, there's a little girl named Karen who use
to work for me. About 5'2", maybe 100 lbs. _So_ cute. Once drove me absolutely crazy talking about how she
wanted to strangle a rude bank teller (female, of course) after lunch one day. I teased her about being too
weak to carry it off. She proceeded to name all the women in the office whose asses she could kick. And
how. In graphic detail. Ouch! Might be interesting. Maybe in the horse barn behind Diane's house. Summer.
Shorts. Bare legs intertwined. Hands in each others' hair. Bodies slick with sweat rolling around in the
hay. Fight to the finish. Maybe something like the scene in "Single White Female." Hmmmmm :).
There are so many others we could use. Colleen or Lisa from where my wife works. Colleen's a shapely blonde.
Lisa's tall and thin, beautiful long legs, curly light brown hair. Both in their early thirties. Both very
pretty. Perfect. Or maybe Roberta. Small and dark-haired. Works out everyday. Used to be Joe Montana's
girlfriend (at least when he was in-town to play the Giants). Had a couple of breakdowns, I hear. Spacy,
kind of artsy. Violent temper. Got fired from a couple of jobs for threatening her boss (female, of course).
So many others. So many great combinations. So many places - an elevator, a parked car, out in the woods
somewhere.
Maybe I'll rent a movie with a good scene in it and watch it with her to give her some ideas. "Single White
Female," "Bodily Harm," "Prey of the Chameleon." What else is over at Blockbuster?
"C'mon baby, you know what I want. It is my 40th birthday, after all. You used to do it for me. And you
were so good at it. Please? Pretty please? I can be very grateful. C'mon, just whisper in my ear a little
while you play with me. You know what to do . . ."
Think I outghta go for it? :)
Seuss
Dwf52
You all are talking about my life here.
Brief history: The first fight scene I remember being turned on by was in
a TV western. I was probably 10 years old. This was a scene where one man
gets beaten. They take off his shirt, hold him against a rock and punch
him in the stomach. Do I have to say that to this day I have a stomach
punching fantasy?
However, The amount of guilt I felt being turned on by men too much. I was
a white, middle class boy. My dad had been in the Marines. I was brought
up in the church and considered myself a Christian.
So I did what was easiest. I turned my thinking to women. This eased my
mind a little, because - and this was in the early 1960's - I was
mortified by the thought that I might be gay. I'm not , by the way. Not
that it matters much to be anymore. It's just to set the record straight.
I'm 44 years old now. I've been through the guilt, the denial. I'm passed
the point where I think that Jesus can save me from this - I'm more of an
agnostic at this point.
I was married for 10 years and for a long time I blamed my fetish for the
dissolution of my marriage. I know now that this wasn't wholly true.
At this point in my life I'm pretty well acclimated to myself. I know my
strengths and my weaknesses and I don't apologize for them.
I live by myself now and enjoy it. I haven't had any successful
relationships, but I'm not sure I want one.
I think the hardest part of having this fetish is when you're involved
with another person.
But it's not just this fetish that's the problem in a relationship.
Everything is a problem in a relationship. "There is nothing like a
relationship to show you how screwed up really are." I don't remember who
said that. Maybe it was me. But I've found it to be true. You don't
realize how different people are until you become closely involved with
them.
I think I'll end this here. I was going to make some comments about
dealing with this in a relationship, but after I typed out the comments, I
realized I was full of shit.
Thanks for listeniing,
Dan
Hal316
I'm interested,... hell, that's the other half of this thing for us lucky
enough to be able to HAVE a relationship!
Joyce240
My story does not include any type of familial abuse or neglect. I will
always remember the day in 7th grade that I had to leave school early. To
this day I don't remember why, but I missed a knock down drag out fight
between two girls. I think I was the only kid in a school of 1200 that
missed that fight. For weeks after that is all anybody spoke about, and it
drove my imagination as to what I missed.
To this day my fantasy is stilled haunted by that fight-two girls or
women,no matter their ages, are dressed alike in Catholic grade school
uniforms (white button down shirt and plaid skirt). That fight happened in
1966, and I still am effected by the thought of it.
TJ
MSmith6421
Like Seuss, i too turn 40 this year. i too would like a catfight for my
birthday. wow, great minds think a like.
This is a helluva thread! material for somebody' phd.
alt.sex.fetish.wrestling
don't know why I got to like, (gross understatement) women
fighting, but know it went all the way back to Annete F. in the
spin and marty series
always wanted to see ladies from munsters and adams family go at
it, genie and bewitched.
any time there is a movie with two ladies, i wait to see there
relationship.
prefer same size and body types with different colored hair.
I know it's an obsession but sometimes it's all I got.
It's the most important thing in any relationship. I need the
women to at least say they'll do it, and if they don't, I loose
interest fast.
Oh, buy the way, I went to a shrink for it, and she said I got it
from an experience where my mother was gonna slap a women who had
slapped me (fruedian) and this was a way of her demonstrating her
love, but I can remember having it before that episode.
Kee
--
Kee