>Subject: net abuse by Ezekiel Krahlin
>Postmaster, for many weeks now, one of your users has been
>flooding the newsgroup soc.motss with inappropriate cross-postings.
Flooding? Not at all. I know the rules: don't crosspost to more
than five groups...and don't crosspost to inappropriate ones. I am
involved in soc.veterans, alt.christnet, and several gay groups. When
soc.veterans brings up homosexuality, I toss in my two cents, and
crosspost to two or three gay groups, that others may be made aware of
the topic. Likewise, for christnet when topics concern GayFolk.
Since I saw many messages regarding religion and the military in
soc.motss, I assumed it was an appropriate newsgroup. Now, I realize
it isn't, and I will stop. However, I have never "flooded" any groups
at any time.
>This user who goes by the name of Ezekiel Krahlin, and uses a
>bogus return address, seems to be a gay activist who has announced
>that he is going to educate the world about homosexuality.
That's my real name, Ezekiel Krahlin. I do not use a *bogus* address,
as the real one is in the verbose header, so that anyone who really
wants to, can post a private e-mail. I use a phony address in the
"reply to" small header, to discourage automatic advertisement
spams...and this technique is used by a lot of netizens. I just
learned this little trick by noticing how many others were also doing
it. So your accussation of a "bogus" address is trying to make me
look like some terrible bogeyman...as the complainer probably knows
the real reason why anyone changes their address in this manner.
As far as educating the world about homosexuality...well, of course
that is my calling. I enjoy contributing to this, along with many
other lesbian and gay people, and their sympathizers. Do you,
complainer, have some problem with this?
>The problem is that soc.motss is a gay and lesbian social newsgroup.
>The soc.motss charter specifically states that it is not the proper
>forum to discuss the morality of homosexuality.
Fine, I would've have been glad to comply right away, if someone had
bothered to point this out to me. I examined this group before
posting...and saw numerous posts of moral and religious type
discussions, so I thought this newsgroup *was* appropriate.
But to jump all over me, and go through my ISP, without first directly
sending me your complaint...really smacks of some form of
bigotry...whether it be from a right wing homophobe, or an
ultraconservative "ooh, let's not rock the boat" queer.
>His cross postings to Christian and right wing newsgroups only
>causes dozens if not hundreds of hate filled replies to be brought into
>soc.motss. He is continously creating new threads, cross-posting to new groups.
I am keeping GayFolk informed of what's going on in these homophobic
areas. As they often try to get away without us knowing what they are
preaching, spewing, and threatening about homosexuality. But since I
now know--through a very rude attack--that soc.motss is not an
appropriate group, no problem. Though certainly, I will continue yo
to keep people aware in alt.homosexual and gay-net.general. I am not
the only person who crossposts with the same purposes in mind...that
lesbians and gays may be made aware of certain homophobic issues going
on behind their backs, and defend themselves if they so wish.
>As only you can determine who this person is, please ask him to stop
>cross-posting to soc.motss.
Oh, please, quit pretending you can't contact me directly. My real
e-mail is indeed in the subject header...if you expand it to show the
full, verbose header. There is no way I can use a bogus address, and
still log onto my ISP.
---
(Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
Please keep our dialogues public; private mail by request only.
Hostile private replies will be re-posted in the public arena.
>>Subject: net abuse by Ezekiel Krahlin
>>Postmaster, for many weeks now, one of your users has been
>>flooding the newsgroup soc.motss with inappropriate cross-postings.
>>This user who goes by the name of Ezekiel Krahlin, seems to be a gay
>activist who has announced that he is going to educate the world about
>homosexuality.
>As far as educating the world about homosexuality...well, of course
>that is my calling. I enjoy contributing to this, along with many
>other lesbian and gay people, and their sympathizers. Do you,
>complainer, have some problem with this?
can't see why they would. after all it's not like you're pompous,
condescending and completely unable to engage in meaningful dialogue.
>>The problem is that soc.motss is a gay and lesbian social newsgroup.
>>The soc.motss charter specifically states that it is not the proper
>>forum to discuss the morality of homosexuality.
here comes the "you disagree with me so you're a homophobe speech"
(yawn)
>Fine, I would've have been glad to comply right away, if someone had
>bothered to point this out to me.
>But to jump all over me, and go through my ISP, without first directly
>sending me your complaint...really smacks of some form of
>bigotry...whether it be from a right wing homophobe, or an
>ultraconservative "ooh, let's not rock the boat" queer.
>>His cross postings to Christian and right wing newsgroups only
>>causes dozens if not hundreds of hate filled replies to be brought
>into
>>soc.motss. He is continously creating new threads, cross-posting to
>new groups.
>I am keeping GayFolk informed of what's going on in these homophobic
>areas. As they often try to get away without us knowing what they are
>preaching, spewing, and threatening about homosexuality. Though
>certainly, I will continue to keep people aware in alt.homosexual and
>gay-net.general.
nothing is going on behind our backs. if you can go to these
newsgroups, we can also. call it what it is, a pathetic cry for
attention. don't try to mask it as a noble attempt to "inform" us
>>As only you can determine who this person is, please ask him to stop
>>cross-posting to soc.motss.
>Oh, please, quit pretending you can't contact me directly. My real
>e-mail is indeed in the subject header...if you expand it to show the
>full, verbose header. There is no way I can use a bogus address, and
>still log onto my ISP.
why contact you directly? you don't listen to anyone here, why should
they expect that you would listen there? personally, I'm just waiting
for you to cross the line here in alt.homosexual so i can do the same.
it may not be today, or tomorrow, but it will happen, and when it does,
I'll be there.....
warmest regards thrashman,
ralph
Just what is this rant and rave from the two of you and JTEM
about the exclusivity of soc.motss?? The whole thing sounds
like a case of undeserved superiority complex.
Are you as militant about the 95 percent of the OTHER
crosspostings that have ABSOLUTELY no relevance, such
as all the commercial and heterosexual spammers?
It looks a lot more to me like you don't like Ezekiel Krahlin's
OPINIONS, ergo they should not be allowed. Rather than
intelligent responses, I see ridicule from JTEM.
If soc.motss does not allow the discussion of homosexual morality,
then stop making moral judgments.
Or is it that everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others?
If you don't like his (or my occasional) crosspostings, then get a moderator!
Or grow up.
--
John
NOTE: "From" address is deliberately wrong.
My correct e-mail address is:
>It looks a lot more to me like you don't like Ezekiel Krahlin's
>OPINIONS, ergo they should not be allowed. Rather than
>intelligent responses, I see ridicule from JTEM.
Thanks, John. You have provided an objective light on this matter, as
has another in soc.motss. Any neutral stance will put me in a fair
perspective. Usenet is supposed to be a semi-anarchist
democracy...but one would think otherwise regarding some of the tacky
queens around here!
Funny, how no homophobe has yet to try to sabotage my Internet
service...and sad that it comes from one (or more) of my gay
"brothers". Well, no minority is without its bitchy element. I feel
honored to have all this attention drawn on me...I must be doing
*something* right!
>In <33210882...@news.wco.com>, chief_t...@athenia.com
>(Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>Judging from observation, three types of postings appear to be common
>and desirable in this newsgroup:
>(1) serious discussion/debate of issues of interest to gays/lesbians,
> by gays/lesbians
>(2) information (or pointers thereto) of interest to gays/lesbians,
> posted by gays/lesbians
>(3) chatty/social discussion among gays/lesbians
>
>Obviously no one wants to see homophobic/hate postings, religious
>zealotry, debate on morality of homosexuality, etc. (Of course, we
>can't stop anti-gay crusaders from hanging out here and doing so.)
>
>The complaint seems to suggest, however, that the newsgroup purpose is
>restricted to (3), and is an inappropriate forum for *gays* to discuss
>issues like religion, gays in the military, gay-negative attitudes/
>occurrences, discrimination in the workplace, etc. I'm not clear on
>what the consensus is on this point. Comments?
>
>As an example, would the following posting be objectionable?:
> Question from gay person:
> What is the response of the anti-gay religous right to the question:
> "If homosexuals are sinners, why does God continue to create so many
> of his creatures that way?"
>
>--Rick
Thanks for you neutral stance, Rick...that's all I asked for on this
issue. The person who attacked me is small-minded and vindictive. He
never once said some of my posts may be inappropriate (I do know who
it is, by the way, by I don't know him personally). Instead, he has
tried to sabotage my ISP by slandering my behavior on the newsgroups.
He has also said that I am upsetting groups by creating dozens or
hundreds of new threads...that is quite an exaggeration at best...but
really more of a compliment, as it shows my ability to create new and
interesting topics.
The ISP (Fog.Net using West Coast Online newsserver) is also at fault,
for taking anyone's word without looking into things. So I am "guilty
until proven innocent". They won't even tell me who he is, as they
say that's their policy. I am surprised at them, because one would
think there have already occurred numerous hateful retaliations like
this by many others on usenet, to many ISPs...you'd think the ISP
would ignore such tripe. Anyone may post an opinion on this issue to:
in...@fog.net (attention Mike Miller), or to West Coast Online's
newsserver administrator (who forwarded the complaint to FogNet):
postm...@wco.com (name is Paul Theodoropoulos).
So, anyone who holds a grudge can just pop an e-mail to the ISP,
register a complaint beefed up with false accusations, and still
remain unknown to the victim of the attack. So all I need is a couple
of fundamentalists from alt.christnet, and a couple of backstabbers
from alt.homosexual...and poof! I lose my so-called
democratic/anarchist access to newsgroups forever (under my real
name).
I am amused that my strong anti-homophobic stance has resulted not in
any attack (yet) by a bonafide homophobe, but apparantly, by a gay
"brother". As far as soc.motss...well, I thought "soc" stood for
"society," as in "members of the same sex and society"...but what you
suggest is it stands for "socialzing". I have no problem not
discussing topics of homophobia in this group...though others here may
continue to do so. I just assumed soc.motss was one of the more
general lesbian/gay groups, like alt.homosexual and gay-net.general.
I leave you with a private post I received last night:
>This is totally ridiculous! I really shouldn't be surprised at this kind of
>stupidity, but I can't help it. Inappropriate postings?! You were posting, I
>presume, gay-related material to a gay/lesbian newsgroup. How inappropriate
>is that? I am just shaking my head in bewilderment at the sheer stupidity of
>this person. He's obviously just got some grudge against you, otherwise he
>would have flamed you directly. But either way, what an asshole! But you're
>right. You have to expect backstabbers in your own corner, no matter how
>annoying it is.
>can't see why they would. after all it's not like you're pompous,
>condescending and completely unable to engage in meaningful dialogue.
No, some discussions are heated, others are not. You choose to see
things your way, that's fine. I really think, however, if you put so
much into nitpicking, how much more effective it would be against
homophobia.
>nothing is going on behind our backs. if you can go to these
>newsgroups, we can also. call it what it is, a pathetic cry for
>attention. don't try to mask it as a noble attempt to "inform" us
Nonsense. Before I made people aware of the most recent homophobic
slurs in soc.veterans...hardly any lesbian or gay was addressing the
issue. But when I cross posted my own replies, then a lot of us
rolled up our sleeves to confront the bigots. You are attempting to
thwart and sabotage another gay brother for assuming the role of
keeping others informed (along with numerous other folk)...you are, to
put it bluntly, a turncoat to the cause. I'm glad my abilities to
bring out the phonies is just as sharp as ever, in this new medium.
You are like a number of small minded people who happen to be
homosexual, but deny the good contributions a person has made, because
you hate some other things he said that you take offense to.
>personally, I'm just waiting
>for you to cross the line here in alt.homosexual so i can do the same.
I did not cross the line anywhere. The person who attacked me was a
petty, vengeful little worm...just like you. You are not waiting for
me to "cross the line"...you are waiting for the time you might be
able to stab me in the back.
>it may not be today, or tomorrow, but it will happen, and when it does,
>I'll be there.....
Tell me something I don't already know. You, too, have a vindictive
nature. Threatening a gay brother, who sticks out his neck before the
homophobes, in order to help make a change for the better. For shame,
for shame! (This goes to you, too, Aloha Ward.)
>warmest regards thrashman,
>ralph
Hey, with friends like you, who needs KKKristian homophobes?
[ re: his frequent cross-posting to christian groups, etc. ]
> I am keeping GayFolk informed of what's going on in these homophobic
> areas.
Bullshit. All you're doing is provoking people in these other groups
and inviting them to pollute the gay groups with endless flamefests.
--
Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
: Thanks, John. You have provided an objective light on this matter, as
: has another in soc.motss. Any neutral stance will put me in a fair
: perspective.
Translation:
If you agree with me, you're objective, 'neutral,' and fair.
If you don't, you are...
: Funny, how no homophobe has yet to try to sabotage my Internet
: service...and sad that it comes from one (or more) of my gay
: "brothers". Well, no minority is without its bitchy element.
... bitchy and, presumedly, unfair and wrong.
This 'logic' doesn't allow for any possibility of disagreement with you.
That makes any meaningful dialogue more or less impossible, which will
probably lead many readers to the conclusion that you're a blowhard.
And with idiotic "friends" like you who insist on "informing" us of
every piece of moronic anti-gay drivel you find on the net, who needs
'em either?
*plonk*
Ezekiel Krahlin (chief_t...@athenia.com) wrote:
: Thanks for you neutral stance, Rick...that's all I asked for on this
: issue. The person who attacked me is small-minded and vindictive. He
: never once said some of my posts may be inappropriate (I do know who
: it is, by the way, by I don't know him personally). Instead, he has
: tried to sabotage my ISP by slandering my behavior on the newsgroups.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
The soc.motss charter is in the soc.motss FAQ.
You should never post to any newsgroup without have read the FAQ. You do
so at your own peril.
David W. Fenton | "What do you need to know? I weep. I
New York University | suffer. Farewell." -- famous "Musi-
dfe...@bway.net | cologist" Joseph Machlis on translating
http://www.bway.net/~dfenton | opera from languages he doesn't know.
>In article <3321d031...@news.wco.com>,
> chief_t...@athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>>
>> Hey, with friends like you, who needs KKKristian homophobes?
>
>And with idiotic "friends" like you who insist on "informing" us of
>every piece of moronic anti-gay drivel you find on the net, who needs
>'em either?
I'm not informing you or anyone on every piece of moronic anti-gay
drivel, as you so adamantly claim. I have only brought into the
groups, some issues which strike me as the most important ones: gays
in the military, and Christan fundamentalism's homophobia. I find
them very interesting topics to debate...as obviously do many others.
As a result of my crossposting, many Hellenes posted excellent
rebuttals loaded with accurate references. I'm very proud of this
achievement. So, it's too bad some of my "brothers" spit on me,
instead of a simple, "Hey, thanks for your contributions."
I have seen plenty of arguments going on without me, among GayFolk,
and I don't see the underhanded retaliation being used there. So I
believe that my experience is exceptional, performed by one or just a
few, who are so arrogant enough as to think no one will speak out
against their fascist attacks.
>In article <33210882...@news.wco.com>,
> chief_t...@athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
>[ re: his frequent cross-posting to christian groups, etc. ]
>
>> I am keeping GayFolk informed of what's going on in these homophobic
>> areas.
>
>Bullshit. All you're doing is provoking people in these other groups
>and inviting them to pollute the gay groups with endless flamefests.
Well, you'd better address this problem--which is apparently how you
see it--to all the other lesbian/gay cross posters doing the same
thing I am. I don't see flamefests going on, but I do see heavy
debate...with a lot of intelligent postings by concerned and educated
GayFolk in soc.veterans and alt.christnet.
It looks to me like all the Hellene participants are really enjoying
rolling up their sleeves and vociferously educating a large number of
homophobes. Congratulations! (Sure I'd like a pat on the back for my
contributions, but I don't need them.) So you blame me for an
achievement that has proven very positive? Sound like jealousy to me.
>In article <33210882...@news.wco.com>, chief_t...@athenia.com
>(Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote:
>
>The only email address that I see on Ezekiel Krahlin's current article is
>chief_t...@athenia.com. If this is bogus, then Krahlin should expect
>complaints to be redirected to his ISP from anyone who was annoyed enough
>to try to contact him about his crosspostings. No big deal.
First of all the complainer could have just posted a public response
to me, before trying to sabotage my ISP.
Oh, well, you haven't noticed all the other fake names on people's
articles. This is to avoid being inundated with automated spam
advertisements, which grab the address in that line, and insert it
into their spam software. If you use a fake address, then your spam
attacks will be greatly reduced. This is a common tactic that many
Usenet posters use. The person who slandered me is attempting to
demonize me...by making me look like I am withholding my real address.
I believe he knows this is untrue, and knows all about this anti-spam
tactic.
However, if a person wants to know your real e-mail address, all s/he
need do, is expand the subject headers from "short" to "verbose"...and
voila! The real e-mail address shows up! It is impossible for anyone
to post any messages, if his or her real address is not in the verbose
listing. I am being singled out for something which thousands of
Usenet participants do all the time. It is legal, it is encouraged.
See for yourself, while reading this post. Find the option in your
reader to expand the message header...and you will find my true
e-mail. I don't know your e-mail software, but I'm sure anyone here
will be glad to help, including myself. You might have to shut down
the program after changing the option...then reload it, in order to
see the difference.
>I appreciate the argument that it is almost never a good idea to cross-post
>between soc.motss and, say, alt.homosexual and I would recommend that
>everyone give it serious consideration. (One clue is that if anyone
>actually wanted to read alt.homosexual or alt.christnet.sex, they would.)
Plenty of people crosspost far more extensively than I do. Again, the
person who slandered me has colored some people's viewpoints before
even reading my posts...which anyone can do by visiting the DejaNews
web page, and searching out my name, "krahlin". DejaNews URL:
http://www.gms.lu/search/dejanews/load.html
Then you might see for yourself, whether my postings are
inappropriate, or any more than what many posters do.
>Although some people might think it a courtesy to crosspost an article
>which they found interesting and relevant from some other newsgroup, often
>it turns out to be a great discourtesy.
It depends. The result of crossposting my first few messages from
soc.veterans, was that many lesbians and gays dived in with excellent
rebuttals filled with solid references. Looks to me like all were
having a good time.
>The prevailing attitude in soc.motss seems to be that just because
>something seems "relevant" is no excuse for crossposting it. (A simple
>remark about the thread could be more appreciated.)
Well, that's fine with me, too. I have no problem not posting here.
No one ever complained to me on this issue, so I assumed my postings
were welcome and appropriate.
>Paradoxically, in this
>newgroup, irrelevancy is considered an appropriate team sport. I admire
>the poise and deady accuracy with which irrelevancy is wielded by its
>masters. Pertient content is swifty dispatched from offending threads.
That was my main activity for cross posts.
>Beware, Karhlin, for you are no match for these motssketeers!
Judging by the ones attacking me, I hardly see much of a challenge.
They are bland, unoriginal, petty, and small minded little souls.
>As for myself, I share the attitude expressed by the following wonderful
>quote: "I've got a kill file and I'm not afraid to use it."
Is that a kill file in your PDA or are you glad to see me? 8o)
>I haven't been reading much of your stuff, but if you've been crossposting
>it like you have, well, I'll be glad to send you a copy of the charter if
>you still haven't seen it.
As I said earlier, I have no problem with being corrected about an
inappropriate post. This does not seem to be the real issue...which
is an underhanded attempt to sabotage my Internet access. I have not
received any complaint by anyone that some of my posts were not
appropriate.
And as I also said earlier, I already reviewed soc.motss in
considering whether or not it was appropriate. Seeing the discussions
going on, I figured it was okay.
>The 'phobes mostly know enough to stay off soc.motss so the kind of thing
>that is expressly forbidden by charter (discussions of the legitimacy of
>homosexuality, e.g.) pretty much stays off.
I see plenty of crossposting between these groups without my
participation. As a matter of fact, some posts--many, in fact--that I
reply to have crossposts of eight or more groups! How on earth do
these massive crossposters get away with it? I even had, once, a
usenet robot accuse me of massive posting, when all I did was reply to
another's message! So I usually remember to pare down such messages's
crossposts when I reply to them...to no more than five. But why
doesn't the robot go after the original source of these massive
posters?
>Then when you go and crosspost stuff to newsgroups where the 'phobes hang
>out (I don't know about alt.h, but alt.politics.h is bad news, for instance)
I do not--I repeat, do not--crosspost from the gay groups into
alt.christnet or soc.veterans....but I do some crossposting the other
way around...when the topic of homosexuality is being discussed, and I
feel other GayFolk would enjoy chiming in. I see others using this
method all the time.
>they followup, and presto this newsgroup is invaded, simply because people
>don't have the sense to check their newsgroup headers from time to time.
Well, an invasion is not what has happened at all. Many GayFolk
provided excellent rebuttals loaded with references...and they all
seemed to be enjoying it immensely. I crossposted my first few
replies into some general gay newsgroups, as my way of saying: "Hey
guys, I need a little help here...perhaps others would like to put in
their two cents."
>I frequently tell my newsreader to kill topics like some of the ones with
>your names on them, or to ignore the threads.
Anyway, as I said earlier, I have no problem leaving soc.motss out of
my postings. But I do have a problem with people who stab me in the
back because they don't like some of my viewpoints. I think that
energy would be better placed by sabotaging some of the
violence-oriented homophobes' ISP access, rather than attacking a
participant in the gay rights cause...if sabotage is what they feel
they must do. But I do advise them to first find a way to be
untraceable...unlike the attack on me.
> However, if a person wants to know your real e-mail address, all s/he
> need do, is expand the subject headers from "short" to "verbose"...and
> voila! The real e-mail address shows up!
Oh, most brave and noble crossposting crusader for gay rights, here
are the total, complete and unexpurgated headers of your article:
> Path: proletcult.slip.ifi.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!nntp.uio.no!newsfeeds.sol.net!europa.clark.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!HSNX.wco.com!news.wco.com!not-for-mail
> From: Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
> Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual
> Subject: Re: Complaint about my posts.
> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 05:44:26 GMT
> Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
> Lines: 92
> Message-ID: <33224a72...@news.wco.com>
> References: <33210882...@news.wco.com> <KerryGinn-ya023680...@news.eden.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.155.44.22
> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Oh, wise one, could you point out exactly *where* your "true e-mail"
is listed here? Thanks!
> It is impossible for anyone to post any messages, if his or her real
> address is not in the verbose listing.
Gosh -- amazing what one can do with news servers today.
> I am being singled out for something which thousands of Usenet
> participants do all the time. It is legal, it is encouraged.
I think you misspelled "It is illegal, it is discouraged". Hope this
helps!
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
la...@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen
Are you threating people? If so your ISP would be most interested in
that aspect of your attitude...
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
tedd...@netcom.com
__
Agreed on all counts except the last.
What his persecution mania will most likely lead most people
to do is simply killfile him and ignore him. As he deserves.
HE>On Sat, 8 Mar 1997 16:55:52 -0600, con...@neosoft.com (Conrad
HE>Sabatier) said:
HE>>In article <3321d031...@news.wco.com>,
HE>> chief_t...@athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
HE>>>
HE>>> Hey, with friends like you, who needs KKKristian homophobes?
HE>>
HE>>And with idiotic "friends" like you who insist on "informing" us of
HE>>every piece of moronic anti-gay drivel you find on the net, who needs
HE>>'em either?
HE>I'm not informing you or anyone on every piece of moronic anti-gay
HE>drivel, as you so adamantly claim. I have only brought into the
HE>groups, some issues which strike me as the most important ones: gays
HE>in the military, and Christan fundamentalism's homophobia.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HE> I find HE>them very interesting topics to debate...as obviously do many
others.
Just so you know, this subject matter is inapropiate on soc.motss. Gays
in the military MIGHT be OK, depending on the tone of the message.
ciao4now
-duff
mdu...@ggbbs.com
All you commercial sites, READ THIS!!!!!
It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited commercial email
per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a US $500 charge for
reviewing & deleting each unsolicited commercial email. Sending unsolicited
commercial email to my email address denotes acceptance of these terms. My
posting messages to UseNet neither grants consent to receiving nor is
intended to solicit commercial email.
Of course, now you are innundating us with whiny, pedantic post after
post in which you simply repeat yourself incessantly.
Give up already, if you know who your attacker is (as you imply) then
either start a dialog WITH THAT PERSON, or complain to thier ISP about
inappropiate behaviour.
Also be sure to speak with your own ISP asking why they sent you the
warning rather than vetching over it for days and making us listen to it
(not to mention waste diskspace downloading it).
CO>Agreed on all counts except the last.
CO>What his persecution mania will most likely lead most people
CO>to do is simply killfile him and ignore him. As he deserves.
CO>--
CO>Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
Of course, it's tough to killfile someone who keeps changing his public
name, aaas he well knows. He will ensure that he annoys us for months,
until his prattle is finally totally ignored (I'm nearly there now, his
'devil may care attitude regarding 'some' forms of sex scare the hell
out of me)
>Give up already, if you know who your attacker is (as you imply) then
>either start a dialog WITH THAT PERSON, or complain to thier ISP about
>inappropiate behaviour.
Has been done.
>Also be sure to speak with your own ISP asking why they sent you the
>warning rather than vetching over it for days and making us listen to it
>(not to mention waste diskspace downloading it).
They refuse to reply. But they have also denied problems with
connecting and sudden and frequent timeouts. I have asked for my
money back, and will be going to another ISP.
There is very little diskspace resulting from my messages. If you are
so upset over my speaking out against a vile attack by another gay
"brother", just use your kill file, with my name in it.
>Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
>> However, if a person wants to know your real e-mail address, all s/he
>> need do, is expand the subject headers from "short" to "verbose"...and
>> voila! The real e-mail address shows up!
>
>Oh, most brave and noble crossposting crusader for gay rights, here
>are the total, complete and unexpurgated headers of your article:
>
>> Path: proletcult.slip.ifi.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!nntp.uio.no!newsfeeds.sol.net!europa.clark.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!HSNX.wco.com!news.wco.com!not-for-mail
>> From: Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
>> Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual
>> Subject: Re: Complaint about my posts.
>> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 05:44:26 GMT
>> Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
>> Lines: 92
>> Message-ID: <33224a72...@news.wco.com>
>> References: <33210882...@news.wco.com> <KerryGinn-ya023680...@news.eden.com>
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.155.44.22
>> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Well, I just posted a message to alt.test, then downloaded it...here
is my result:
From ???@0x000002BE Sun Mar 09 13:30:15 1997
Path: news.wco.com!not-for-mail
From: Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Newsgroups: alt.test
Subject: testing, please ignore
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 21:26:27 GMT
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for
content
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <33232af5...@news.wco.com>
Reply-To: ekra...@fog.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.155.44.47
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Xref: news.wco.com alt.test:519526
Status: N
Your reading has 10 lines, mine has 15. Line 11 reveals my real
address, while line 3 (in yours, line 2) does not. I have recieved
three private e-mails in the last month, from three people on Usenet
who could only have replied via one of my newsgroup postings.
But this is not the real problem...as, if you really want to post
personally--and can't do it from your reader--you can always post a
public message, requesting my real address. (See my signature at the
bottom.)
The person who attacked me is guilty of slander. He has demonized me
so that people such as yourself jump to unfair conclusions, and join
in the fray of harassing me.
>> I am being singled out for something which thousands of Usenet
>> participants do all the time. It is legal, it is encouraged.
>
>I think you misspelled "It is illegal, it is discouraged". Hope this
>helps!
I believe others more Usent savvy then yourself, will correct your
limited understanding.
>Oh, most brave and noble crossposting crusader for gay rights
I gather you are satirizing my own fake address:
Helleni...@Athenia.com
I use that, along with others, such as
Chief_T...@Athenia.new
and
Proud...@Are.you
because it is an assertive, self-confident, in-your-face style that I
feel is very useful when involved in confronting homophobia in such
groups as alt.christnet and soc.veterans. So confident, even, that it
also reflects a sense of humor. And the homophobic types have a real
dificult time dealing with completely self-assured homosexuals. They
try to coerce upon us, a stereotype that we are feeble, both in mind
and body.
I find this attack upon me doing far more harm to Hellenes that
anything I have been accused of (however false the accusations are).
For these homophobes can easily snip out these petty harrassments
towards me, then take it out of context and make GayFolk at large,
look very, very small minded. Same way they can use all the
homosexual smut so prevalent in Usenet...however unfair this tactic
may be.
That's why, in a recent posting, I encouraged our Hellenic sisters and
brothers to contribute more of their non-pornographic art, writing,
etc., into the Usenet...but works that are still clearly gay
supportive. I contributed three comic strip satires recently, to
alt.binaries.pictures.misc...which are part of my "If the Sunday
Comics Were Gay" collection. You can just search for my last name,
Krahlin, in that group, to find them. Or, I will gladly send them via
private e-mail to anyone who requests.
Now, do I hear any of these attackers acknowledging my good
contributions? No, they are foul mouthed, jealous little homonculii.
Either that, or having a series of bad hair days, all in a row.
But I believe in free speech...hence would never try to sabotage
anyone from ISP access, as one gay "brother" has done.
To me, the real problem is this: a "brother" was so upset over some
of my points of view that he lost control and went way overboard into
a harsh, reactionary mode. He is an example of several in these
newsgroups who are incapable of handling heated dialogues (arguments),
while maintaining a balanced perspective.
While I disagree sharply with some of their viewpoints, and get very
pissed off...I keep things in the family, and in the newsgroup
context. I don't plot sabotage to their democratic right to the
Internet medium. I might, however, address these idiots as
"small-minded little worms", "middle class snobs of deceit and
arrogance," or "yellow striped turncoats." They just lose control,
and reveal to the entire world (via Usenet) what shallow, tacky queens
they really are. I, for one, am glad that my intent to help fight
homophobia, also winds up serving a secondary, but vital function.
>Ezekiel Krahlin (chief_t...@athenia.com) wrote:
>This 'logic' doesn't allow for any possibility of disagreement with you.
>That makes any meaningful dialogue more or less impossible, which will
>probably lead many readers to the conclusion that you're a blowhard.
No, disagree all you want...but expect my rebuttal, too. My complaint
is against anyone who attacks me by trying to sabotage my democratic
access to the Internet. Something which I would never do to another,
just because his attitude pisses me off.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of me, or my attackers, when
comparing my messages against someone who maliciously slanders me and
attempts to cut off my Usenet access...in a neutral light, of course I
come out as the winner. I did not create this scenario, but the jerk
who did now sticks out like a sore thumb, and has to live with it
forever more.
>
>Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Spare me your bad hair day. Anyone who doesn't know some of the
Usenet ropes, I offer to help...with added comment, "If you still have
any troubles, just post back here."
Laws change at every blow of the wind. You only come off as
neo-fascist with your heavy-handed attitude.
>Of course, it's tough to killfile someone who keeps changing his public
>name, aaas he well knows. He will ensure that he annoys us for months,
>until his prattle is finally totally ignored (I'm nearly there now, his
>'devil may care attitude regarding 'some' forms of sex scare the hell
>out of me)
Another example of manipulitve deception. I do not constantly change
my public name. I happen to be toying around with different names,
like Chief_T...@Athenia.new and Hellenic...@Athenia.com, and
Proud...@Are.You. This has never been done with any intent of
sabotage. I am always available to any private postings, to anyone
who feels they really *must* do so.
If I am being so paranoid, as some claim...then why are jerks like you
twisting everything around to make me look like the baddie in all
this? After all, I am not the one who maliciously attempted to
sabotage another gay brother's democratic access to Usenet. No, I'm
not paranoid at all...just standing up to the idiots who can't
tolerate viewpoints that diverge from theirs in any significant way.
The attempts to slander me are backfiring all over the place, even
without my defending myself. Plus, it is all going on permanent
record, since it's happening on the Internet.
NOT! Here is your complete header. It gives no clue as to your actual
login name/real email address at wco.com
Path: news.gate.net!news.corpcomm.net!news.pe.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!HSNX.wco.com!news.wco.com!not-for-mail
From: Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Complaint about my posts.
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 05:44:26 GMT
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <33224a72...@news.wco.com>
References: <33210882...@news.wco.com> <KerryGinn-ya023680...@news.eden.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.155.44.22
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Xref: news.gate.net soc.motss:341011 alt.homosexual:53661
>Thanks for you neutral stance, Rick...that's all I asked for on this
>issue. The person who attacked me is small-minded and vindictive. He
>never once said some of my posts may be inappropriate (I do know who
>it is, by the way, by I don't know him personally). Instead, he has
>tried to sabotage my ISP by slandering my behavior on the newsgroups.
>
Um, Zeke (if I may be so informal), it is important to note that this
is just the nature of this group. Cowardly acts intending to harm
people are de require. Greg Parkinson sent a "please do not even
grace my mailbox again" message to me and then immediately followed up
5 seconds later with a "he's violated my request and my privacy"
message to my ISP. It didn't take much to convince them that he's a
bit off.
Of course, one of the most important dogma here is that you are
supposed to "get a feel" of the newsgroup and "respect the boundaries"
of this place. Thus, that you didn't read the FAQ, nor apparently did
you know that it existed, is a mortal (and probably unforgivable)
mortal sin.
>The ISP (Fog.Net using West Coast Online newsserver) is also at fault,
>for taking anyone's word without looking into things. So I am "guilty
>until proven innocent".
Standard fare, hon. They're in it for the money and don't ever want
to believe that someone might maliciously write them a note. Of
course, no one is ever malicious.
>
>I am amused that my strong anti-homophobic stance has resulted not in
>any attack (yet) by a bonafide homophobe, but apparently, by a gay
>"brother". As far as soc.motss...well, I thought "soc" stood for
>"society," as in "members of the same sex and society"...but what you
>suggest is it stands for "socialzing".
Hon, this place has once been described as a cocktail party where half
the guests are dismembering each other with chainsaws, and nobody
seems to notice, care, nor find anything unusual in the behavior.
It's the flavor of the place, and while it can be sometimes obnoxious,
it's still, Our Little Village (TM).
>I leave you with a private post I received last night:
"I have millions of supporters in email!" Who was going to make that
complaint form, again? Let's pick it up, we already have a customer.
Chin up, Zeke. Just tell your ISP that you're totally within the
charter, and this person is just sour grapes. Then ignore the
malicious idiots. It infuriates them.
>Bullshit. All you're doing is provoking people in these other groups
>and inviting them to pollute the gay groups with endless flamefests.
And I forgot, who's holding a gun to your head forcing you to read
them?
> Well, I just posted a message to alt.test, then downloaded it...here
> is my result:
[...]
> Reply-To: ekra...@fog.net
[...]
> Your reading has 10 lines, mine has 15. Line 11 reveals my real
> address, while line 3 (in yours, line 2) does not.
It's an *amazing* coinkidink that *none* of your articles to soc.motss
(yes, I actually checked all your articles in the spool) before this
one included a Reply-To header, while all your articles after (and
including) this one do. Far be it for me to suggest that you're a
lying sack of shit -- you're probably just so incompetent that you
don't even know when you configure your news reader to include that
header and when you don't. (I know, I'm probably being overly
generous. It's a failing of mine.)
> >> I am being singled out for something which thousands of Usenet
> >> participants do all the time. It is legal, it is encouraged.
> >
> >I think you misspelled "It is illegal, it is discouraged". Hope this
> >helps!
>
> I believe others more Usent savvy then yourself, will correct your
> limited understanding.
I'm obviously just a clueless newbie since I seem to be misreading
RFC1036 (which is what passes for The Law on Usenet):
----------
2.1. Required Header lines
2.1.1. From
The "From" line contains the electronic mailing address of the
person who sent the message, in the Internet syntax.
----------
I guess somebody more Usent (sic) savvy than myself will explain to me
how this doesn't say what it says. Thanks!
I'm afraid nobody will ever be able to explain the sheer stupidity of
someone who thinks that spam address searching machines won't look at
the Reply-To header, though.
> I find this attack upon me doing far more harm to Hellenes that
> anything I have been accused of (however false the accusations are).
Pointing out that you're violating the charter of soc.motss by
dragging homophobes into the group via crossposting is obviously a
false accusation. Uh-huh.
> But I believe in free speech...hence would never try to sabotage
> anyone from ISP access, as one gay "brother" has done.
If you don't include any way of reaching you via e-mail, the logical
thing to do is to contact your ISP. Duh.
> I might, however, address these idiots as "small-minded little
> worms", "middle class snobs of deceit and arrogance," or "yellow
> striped turncoats." They just lose control, and reveal to the
> entire world (via Usenet) what shallow, tacky queens they really
> are.
I was waiting for the "queen" card to drop.
Homophobe.
>On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 20:58:16 GMT, chief_t...@athenia.com (Ezekiel
>Krahlin) wrote:
>
>Um, Zeke (if I may be so informal), it is important to note that this
>is just the nature of this group. Cowardly acts intending to harm
>people are de require.
I know...and my type of personality always flares 'em up. Do you
think I'm not for a moment enjoying this? If I couldn't take the
bullshit dumped by my own kind, then what good would I be at all, when
confronting the real homophobes? In that way, the queens here are
paying me the highest honors they know to give.
>Of course, one of the most important dogma here is that you are
>supposed to "get a feel" of the newsgroup and "respect the boundaries"
>of this place. Thus, that you didn't read the FAQ, nor apparently did
>you know that it existed, is a mortal (and probably unforgivable)
>mortal sin.
Oh, that's understood. But it's also dogma to first publicly post
someone, regarding a request to take it somewhere else. Likewise,
this is like expecting to read the manual for every software program
you use. Most of those manuals are tedious, and poorly written, and
not much help. So you just dive in, and learn the program. So I
often read a newsgroup for a week or more, before diving in, if I
don't read the faq. I really wonder if these self-righteous folks
have read each faq for each newsgroup...or even one, themselves!
>>The ISP (Fog.Net using West Coast Online newsserver) is also at fault,
>>for taking anyone's word without looking into things. So I am "guilty
>>until proven innocent".
>
>Standard fare, hon. They're in it for the money and don't ever want
>to believe that someone might maliciously write them a note. Of
>course, no one is ever malicious.
I understand that, too. Right now, they don't know how to deal with
me...they've never had someone so assertive about his consumer rights!
I know more than they do about running an ISP, and I've started
explaining to them *why* they are having certain timeout problems, and
binary upload glitches.
>Hon, this place has once been described as a cocktail party where half
>the guests are dismembering each other with chainsaws, and nobody
>seems to notice, care, nor find anything unusual in the behavior.
>It's the flavor of the place, and while it can be sometimes obnoxious,
>it's still, Our Little Village (TM).
Oh, no problem, here. I am nowhere near as vindictive as some of the
queens in these parts. After living in and around Eureka Valley
(a.k.a. "The Castro") for 23 years, I have learned to play the game
well, and better than anyone around. I really am here to help forward
the Queer Rights Movement...including making Usenet more gay friendly
to a broader spectrum of gay types, such as low-income, and
non-mainstream (for the gay community, that is). There are a lot of
gays and lesbians who will soon flood the Internet, who have no part
in leather trips, S & M, piercing, fist fucking, etc. By the same
token, they're not at the other end of the spectrum, either: stodgy,
conservative, stuffed-shirt home and business owners who voted for Bob
Dole. (Anyway, Bob Dole finally found his real calling: Hollywood!
He's real cute in those commercials and guest spots...a real charmer.
Whereas Ronald Reagan was a real bomb in both careers!)
>>I leave you with a private post I received last night:
>
>"I have millions of supporters in email!" Who was going to make that
>complaint form, again? Let's pick it up, we already have a customer.
Oh, you are a good heart. As I'm sure the nasty ones are, too. They
just need to be shook up a bit...glad to be here.
>Chin up, Zeke. Just tell your ISP that you're totally within the
>charter, and this person is just sour grapes. Then ignore the
>malicious idiots. It infuriates them.
Oh, I'm enjoying all this, really! I have always had to fight my way
into any kind of group, or acceptance, et cetera. I even had to knock
one of my lovers to the ground, to make him finally realize we were
meant for each other! (Unfortunately, he has disappeared, and has
been missing for three years now!)
The Internet is the best thing to ever happen for Hellenic
Folk...especially the noncoformist types like myself...who always get
pushed out of gay groups, any type, and are suppressed from
contributing their own great talents. But the Internet has blown the
lid off that. I leave you with this wonderful private e-mail I just
got a few minutes ago, from Quebec:
========================================
I cannot refrain from expressing my JOY at the reading of some of your
texts,among others "I hate babies" and "The roots of homophobia".It
surely lacks in diplomacy,but this is largely compensated by a high
dosage of truth.
I think I am going to translate these texts for my friends (we speak
french around here).Don`t worry,I`ll mention the origin.
=============================================================
Kinsey Gay,category 6 (abbreviated form,kingsix)
Sherbrooke Qc
Still under het occupation
---
(Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
Public dialogue only, no spamming.
Hostile replies will be publicly posted.
Pen pals welcome: ejkr...@juno.com
Then you were an idiotic twit. The amount of crossposted threads has
gone through the roof again since you started your little crusade, and
a modicum of thouyght on your part might have made you realize that we don't
want that shit everywhere. You gotta learn where to go. Now, what are
you going to do about those happy flamewars you have fostered? Or
are you going to claim none of it is your fault?
You have stabbed us in the back when you dragged this all in here. Stop
complaining that some people got fed up with it. Had you done your
homework, you would have known where to go, and soc.motss wasn't it.
FJ!!
"I tend to think that all men are in various stages of denial." - D.S. Cobb
So what exactly are you whining about? As far as I can tell from your ranting
the past few posts, someone wrote your ISP and complained about you, and
a couple of people have called you an absolute moron. What's the big deal?
>[soc.motss trimmed from Followups]
>
>Ezekiel Krahlin (chief_t...@athenia.com) wrote:
>: Thanks for you neutral stance, Rick...that's all I asked for on this
>: issue. The person who attacked me is small-minded and vindictive. He
>: never once said some of my posts may be inappropriate (I do know who
>: it is, by the way, by I don't know him personally). Instead, he has
>: tried to sabotage my ISP by slandering my behavior on the newsgroups.
>
>Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
>
>The soc.motss charter is in the soc.motss FAQ.
>
>You should never post to any newsgroup without have read the FAQ. You do
>so at your own peril.
What do you mean "ignorance of the law"? What law are you talking about?
You have absolutely no right to impose such a "law" on the Internet. If you
object to criticism, then post an RFC and a CFV in news.groups calling for
soc.motts to become a moderated newsgroup. Soc.culture.israel doesn't even
try to keep the Jew-haters out of their newsgroup.
Soc.culture.african.american, in an attempt to get rid of racists posting
to that newsgroup, is trying to become a moderated newsgroup. Why don't you
do the same thing, instead of trying to impose your "laws" on the rest of
us?
It is as if you tried to impose a "law" forbidding the handing out of
"homophobic" leaflets on Christopher Street in New York City. Now,
undoubtedly you could impose such a law there, by brute force. But brute
force doesn't work on the Internet, in spite of the physical threats which
have been made against me for posting "homophobic" messages.
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
JO> *************************************************************************
JO> Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
I'm amazed that a man who quotes Lincoln doesn't see how his own stance
against EQUAL ACCESS TO THE LAW for a subset of the population is
hypocritical in the face of it...
Those who deny me the freedom to marry, also do not deserve that
institution for themselves.
I'll show up at your place for dinner at 8 tonight, hon. You
don't have to acknowledge I'm there, as I can serve myself.
--
Brian Kane~~kane at buast7.bu.edu~~http://buast7.bu.edu/~kane/
"What are we doing in this god-forsaken town [Boston]? All
our friends are in New York!" --- The Magnetic Fields
>Buck Foss:
>:Conrad Sabatier:
>:>Bullshit. All you're doing is provoking people in these other groups
>:>and inviting them to pollute the gay groups with endless flamefests.
>:And I forgot, who's holding a gun to your head forcing you to read
>:them?
>
>I'll show up at your place for dinner at 8 tonight, hon. You
>don't have to acknowledge I'm there, as I can serve myself.
Brian, you, or any other motss member that I recognize by name, will
always be welcome at my table, or to spend the night at my home.
Hospitality is the best social art.
> However, if a person wants to know your real e-mail address, all s/he
> need do, is expand the subject headers from "short" to "verbose"...and
> voila! The real e-mail address shows up!
Here are the complete headers from this article. Where is the real address ?
>Path:
>ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!newsfeeds.sol.net!europa.clark.net!cpk-news-hu
>b1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.pbi.net!samb
>a.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!HSNX.wco.com!news.wco.com!not-for-ma
>il
>From: Helleni...@Athenia.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
>Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual
>Subject: Re: Complaint about my posts.
>Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 05:44:26 GMT
>Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
>Lines: 92
>Message-ID: <33224a72...@news.wco.com>
>References: <33210882...@news.wco.com>
><KerryGinn-ya023680...@news.eden.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.155.44.22
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
>Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.politics.homosexuality:251439 soc.motss:427119
--
Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com) (fog...@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov)
> >Give up already, if you know who your attacker is (as you imply) then
> >either start a dialog WITH THAT PERSON, or complain to thier ISP about
> >inappropiate behaviour.
> Has been done.
With that person...No, it hasn't
With their ISP, no terms of service rules were broken.
>You have stabbed us in the back when you dragged this all in here. Stop
>complaining that some people got fed up with it. Had you done your
>homework, you would have known where to go, and soc.motss wasn't it.
Wow! Another queen with a bad hair day! Say, if it helps your life,
by all means blast away at me. I'd rather have you take out all your
misconstrued aggressions at a gay brother who would *never* harm you,
than a *real* homophobe with violence in his heart, and a gun in his
pocket.
---
Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
>It's an *amazing* coinkidink that *none* of your articles to soc.motss
>(yes, I actually checked all your articles in the spool) before this
>one included a Reply-To header, while all your articles after (and
>including) this one do. Far be it for me to suggest that you're a
>lying sack of shit -- you're probably just so incompetent that you
>don't even know when you configure your news reader to include that
>header and when you don't. (I know, I'm probably being overly
>generous. It's a failing of mine.)
I have been diddling with several news readers, so there is a
possibility I sometimes left out something. But the real difficulty I
have is with these readers that do not have the ability to sort out
mail to you and from you! I understand Yarn, a DOS reader, can do
this. So I am also trying to find time to learn that one. I have
received *another* private e-mail today, from someone who could not
have gotten it except through a newsgroup.
>I'm obviously just a clueless newbie since I seem to be misreading
>RFC1036 (which is what passes for The Law on Usenet):
Oh, you're no newbie, allright...just a royal asshole taking advantage
of Internet knowledge to twist the rules...and spew pointless hatred
like a rabid hound dog shaking a tic from its lip. (Haah! Love that
image, so apropos!)
>I guess somebody more Usent (sic) savvy than myself will explain to me
>how this doesn't say what it says. Thanks!
>
>I'm afraid nobody will ever be able to explain the sheer stupidity of
>someone who thinks that spam address searching machines won't look at
>the Reply-To header, though.
I have changed that again, now my e-mail is in my signature...whoops!
Changed again, back to the "old" way I've been doing it..as
"ekra...@fog.net_Z". There were several people who posted private
e-mail to me, in the last few weeks...and I don't know how they did
that, unless they got it from my headers.
>If you don't include any way of reaching you via e-mail, the logical
>thing to do is to contact your ISP. Duh.
And...there has always been a statement at the bottom of my message
that anyone can post e-mail to me, just request first please. And the
logical, as well as considerate, way to complain to me first, is to
post a *public* message. Also, I prefer public dialogue...and at
first, many folks kept replying in private, when the topics really
were not personal at all. In no time, this would exhaust my energies,
responding to every single replier in personal mail. So I made it
more difficult to do this. I come from the old school of BBS
(pre-Internet) where it was considered bad taste to reply
privately...public participation was encouraged over private mail.
So I have been messing with other solutions, that's all...and perhaps
sometimes the real e-mail got lost in the transition. But for someone
to demonize me as if it were an intentional ploy to be mean to
anyone...is a vulgar manipulation. And a number of small-minded worms
jumped into the fray and--being the bullies they are--got on my case.
Really! So much energy wasted on internicine strife, while the real
enemy (homophobes) hungrily lick their chops in anticipation of their
feast. I'm afraid there won't be a single shred left, as several of
my own "brothers" are doing a fine job of picking the virtual bones
clean. Vultures! Buzzards! Queens Royale! Sated yet?
>I was waiting for the "queen" card to drop.
Bad hair day, hon? (Were you waiting for that card to drop, too?)
>Homophobe.
Really, *really* bad hair day! I can't even take your silly slander
seriously...but slander it surely is.
Recently, you've begun a rather odious, tedious, thread concerning the
manner in which your "posts" have been attacked and your ISP receiving
"complaints" concerning your postings.
I will not go into the validity of those complaints; that is a matter
best left to you, your ISP and that person - or those persons - from
whom your ISP has received complaints.
I will say, however, that I've begun merely marking all your posts as
"read," without having opened them.
Why?
You use a lot of space, without saying anything. You rant and rave,
directing anger and agression to whomever happens to be your particular
target. Yet your postings don't make any sense.
I am not "Thracian," nor do I live in a "Hellenic" nation. Those terms
mean absolutely diddly to me and are labels with which I cannot self
identify - yet in your postings you make the overt assumption that since
you and a few other "queer radicals" of your acquaintance use these
terms, everyone should.
A few months back, there was a straight man haunting these groups who
devised his own terms for gay relationships and their place in society -
such meaningless drivel as "adoptomarriage" and "closer rights." In his
mind, the two concepts which he created solved all the problems of the
gay/straight tensions... and basically, his theory was if we agreed to
abide by his terms and conditions, the world would be a better place
(his terms and conditions were roughly equivalent to living a life in
the closet, and being prepared to be arrested at any time; as well as
equating a gay couple's right to marry to a straight man wising to marry
his dog).
You're doing much the same - creating your own definitions and
attempting to tell us how if we just followed your terms and conditions,
the world would be a much nicer, better place.
And how many times a day to you post rewordings of that same "message"??
10? 20? 100?
And now, just like that long gone straight Bostonian, you're beginning
to scream at those who have the utter temerity to NOT see that you're
right.
Chill, dude. Take a break.
Eric Seright-Payne
Livermore, CA
There's a couple of problems with this. Most of the
objections seem to concern the manner in which you do
what you do. That is, people get upset at you because
you come across as rude and mean-spirited, which of
course isn't really helpful to anyone. Then there's
the way you post stuff of borderline relevance very
widely. While it is possible for people to use
killfiles, we all share an obligation to stick to
some basic conventions when posting to newsgroups
so that they remain useful to us. Short of this
there will be nothing but junk advertising everywhere
and chaos will reign.
You have everything to gain from responding to your
detractors and our shared enemies in a reasonable
manner that doesn't rankle people unnecessarily or
involve newsgroups which aren't completely relevant.
Crossposting in particular just makes people upset
and you can alternatively just post things multiple
times. This brave rebel thing you are working with
is more problematic and less effective than you
realize.
It should have been possible for me to easily
relay this to you personally, but it wasn't.
It's pretty obvious that there's no "brave new
nation" to be seen in anything you are doing.
ChristianM
That's "xaos"
- Steve, helpfully correcting spelling
>Christian Molick wrote:
>> and chaos will reign.
>That's "xaos"
I still contend that "xaos" is pronounced as it's spelled: ex-ay-oss,
with the stress on the second syllable. I'm right, aren't I?
--
-- Arne Adolfsen --------------- ar...@mtcc.com --- http://www.mtcc.com/~arne --
"Asked how it felt to be 104, she trumpeted: 'Madame, I am officially 32. If
you print anything else I will sue.'" -- from Lucie Young's interview of
Beatrice Webb, "the Mama of Dada", in the New York Times, 3/6/97
I pronounce it "x-owse" like in Taos, or sometimes
"x-oss" like in Sauce.
--
Michael Thomas (mi...@mtcc.com http://www.mtcc.com/~mike/)
"I dunno, that's an awful lot of money."
Beavis
Truthfully, I dunno...I based the spelling on the Greek form
(chi alpha omicron(?) sigma), so however those characters would
be pronounced is probably accurate.
Any Greek scholars want to edumacate me on the correct pronunciation
of my "name"?
- Steve
"How's your Jesus Christ been hanging?"
- Tori Amos, "Father Lucifer"
You have harmed me, "brother": you brought all these bullshit phobes
at our door. And you are neither owning up to it nor doing something
about it.
FJ!!
"Nothing is forbidden"
>Homophobe.
Oh Lard, you are too kind!
Here are but three examples in Usenet of my so-called "homophobia":
=====sample 1: ===================================
On Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:11:14 -0500, Peredur <mab...@sprynet.com> said:
>>Thus, Thracians are fathers or mothers in spirit to its
>Sir,
> I believe you make too much of being gay- it is a gift, it is sacred,
>but it is not superior nor inferior to any other expression of human
>diversity. One does not possess character because of one's sexuality.
>Also, you fail to distinguish between spiritual training and injustice.
>While it is true that humans learn from experiences, treating a person
>"like shit" is contrary to the tenets of healthy spiritual practice
>designed to awaken them.
Hi, Peredur. I am in the process of re-establishing the dignity of
the homosexual spirit...I in no way said or implied that we GayFolk
are superior. However, I am instilling a pride in ourselves similar
to how Marines do it...for those who find my way helpful. Marines are
no better than any others...but they are rigorously trained to be
superior in certain activities...as fighters enabled to withstand
rigorous trials at war, including not breaking under torture.
There are numerous religious orders--both occidental and
oriental--that use extreme forms of deprivation or pain to achieve
mystical states. Flagellation, semi-starvation, intense meditation,
isolation of the senses...are just some examples. While this is not
for everyone...it does indeed work for certain types of devotees.
I am implying that God's role for Hellenes is to become spiritual
leaders--or at least inspirers--for the human race. Her/His allowance
of the human race to persecute and degrade us is parallel to the
deprivation and abuse used to train soldiers into Marinehood...as well
as certain stoic, ascetic, and deprivation techniques among numerous
religious sects. I'm not saying we want it this way...but it does
make a lot of sense out of what would otherwise be perceived as
absolutely obscene and pointless. Whether we like it or not, we are
being *molded* into leadership. I believe that in the spirit world,
before our incarnation into this life...a number of us, as souls, did
choose the warrior path of the homosexual.
And it was thus our role, our path of training, so to speak, to be
ostracized, persecuted, spit upon, and joked at by the masses. But
the great spiritual Marines due to emerge from such intense, prolonged
training, will be something for all the world to admire. But you may
take this or leave this as you wish. This is a philosophy of pride,
to re-energize ourselves, as the crisis of AIDS subsides, and our
newfound freedom will strike us emotionally as almost a powerful,
mystical experience...a kiss of love from God Her/Himself...and a
signal to march ahead and conquer The Beast Of Homophobia, at last!
=====sample 2: ===================================
On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 00:16:18 +0000, curt...@nr.infi.net said:
>>The Bible is a book of wisdom and is a guideline for a successful and
>fulfilling life. The teachings thereof have been translated many times
>over. When you take a passage and understand it for yourself, it is ONLY
>for yourself...
You have a most eloquent way of expressing such truths.
Congratulations! My little essay was basically a satire on those who
interpret the story of Adam and Eve as a way to justify homophobia and
suffering and death of a basically innocent group of people: Lesbians
and Thracians.
Your input is great appreciated...it is a very sane comment.
=====sample 3: ===================================
On 24 Feb 1997 18:22:06 -0500, zwi...@julius.ling.ohio-state.edu
(Arnold Zwicky) imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
> >Ezekiel Krahlin (ekra...@fog.net_Z) wrote:
>
> >: (Note: The word "Thracian" as used throughout this manifesto, is
> >: an empowering adjective intended to replace the word "gay," for
> >: those who choose to.)
>
>kuul. i wonder if e.k. knows that northern thrace is now part of
>bulgaria.
>
>woo(l)ly we call them hi scott! bulgarians mammoth
Hi! Times change, as do territorial possessions. When I was figuring
out a male equivalent for "Lesbian," I studied the map of ancient
Greece. First, I thought of using an island, since Lesbos is an
island. Well, I didn't come up with a word that sounded right. And
"Cretan" was no solution. So then I thought of towns and regions.
"Macedonian" and "Spartan" were not right, as they still exist by
name, and I wanted to own a new word for "gay male" that was not
already in possession by any other group. The word "Thrace" rang in
my head like a bell...so I did some research on that region.
The original Thrace is not the area that most people think of. The
Thrace we know about lies to the *east* of ancient Macedonia...but
also has strong Greek heritage and rich history. The original Thrace
is what we think of as ancient Macedonia. This information I garnered
from Grollier's Encyclopedia.
However, I appreciate that Bulgaria now owns part of an area once
known as Thrace. All stereotypes aside...I'm sure a rich, proud
history can be found at some point in Bulgaria's past.
Well, if "nothing is forbidden" as you say, then why are you
forbidding me from anything?
But what confuses me is why you classify soc.veterans and
alt.christnet as homophobic newsgroups. Sure there are homophobes
hanging out there...and they'd love it if GayFolk saw it as *their*
turf...but there are a good number of reasonable straight folk,
too...and some Hellenes.
We not only have a right to be there, we almost have an obligation!
Our presence in greater numbers--continuing the excellent rebuttals
that are well-informed and highly literate and effective--will go a
long way towards enlightening these ignoramuses. Many of us are
Christians, and should have a real voice in alt.christnet. Many
others of us are interested in the topic of religion, and the politics
of religion, who also should feel at home there, even if not
Christian.
Likewise, soc.veterans, especially in this time of so much talk about
gays in the military. The more GayFolk hang out in that group, the
more presence we'll have, and the more support we'll give to our
sisters and brothers in the military, who fight so hard to be
respected, often at the cost of their career or even life. Wouldn't
you feel proud to roll up your sleeves and add your own insight into a
military newsgroup? If you have a lesbian or Thracian friend or
relative in the military, you have a right to be there. If you even
have an interest about any aspect of the military--not just the
les/gay issue--you have a right to be there.
If we insist on seeing these groups as homophobic, then we will never
feel at home in any newsgroup that is not specifically stated as
"gay," "motss", "lesbian", etc. Nor, in the larger sense, will we
ever feel at home in the world. There is no newsgroup that I know of
that is entitled, "alt.homophobes"...ergo, there is no newsgroup that
Hellenic People should not be expected to participate in, giving our
own unique Gay-affirmative perspectives.
I never thought to designate those groups as homophobe territory!
That's just giving away your power, dude. I have no problem with
dropping a crosspost from either those two groups, from soc.motss.
But I do have a problem with the incredible hatred being spewed by my
own so-called gay "brothers" towards me I see no sister doing this,
and for the most part, no men, except several. Your bullying attitude
is reflective of the dark side of the male ego...a problem with men
both straight and gay.
You speak poorly for your people, and if you are more than twelve
years old, you should know better, and be ashamed for your vicious
attitude.
>NOT! Here is your complete header. It gives no clue as to your actual
>login name/real email address at wco.com
Several people have been actively trying to demonize me...and one way
is to make me look like I am being intentionallly elusive about my
e-mail address. If that were true, I wouldn't be including my address
at the top of the various essays and poems I have contributed to
soc.motss, alt.homosexual, and gay-net.general...which my accusers
have conveniently disregarded. Regardless if, in diddling with
several newsreaders, I may have inadvertantly excluded my real e-mail
address.
You can be a childish prig if you want to. That doesn't make
it a good idea.
> ... Thracian ... Hellenic People ...
Your ignorance of what these words really mean is truly
astounding. Homosexuality in modern society is very
different from homosexuality in ancient Mediterranean
cultures, and you can't consider yourself Hellenic
unless you regularly work out in the nude with lots
of uncircumsized men (see the gymbots thread).
>You speak poorly for your people, and if you are more than twelve
>years old, you should know better, and be ashamed for your vicious
>attitude.
You trivialize everyone's complaints and dare to shame others
for attitude. When you go out of your way to show disrespect
for people then they are much less likely to show respect for
you.
ChristianM
I see. To the casual observer it appears that you are
being a petulant asshole, but in reality you are merely
too stupid for complex affectations like politeness,
let alone netiquette.
ChristianM
:Wow! Another queen with a bad hair day! Say, if it helps your life,
I had drinks with FJ!! last night, and his hair looked fabuloso.
Muy fabuloso. His hair will earn him one of the 144,000 reserved
places in heaven.
: by all means blast away at me. I'd rather have you take out all your
: misconstrued aggressions at a gay brother who would *never* harm you,
Let me spell it out really slow for you, Zeke.
You have cross-posted from alt.homosexual, and from other
homopobically sieged newsgroup, articles into soc.motss. Hence
readers of soc.motss can see the homophobic responses to your
articles. We didn't ask to see such tripe (and it against charter
and strongly condemned in the FAQ), but you let it in when you
opened the door. You acknowledged as much over last weekend
(March 8-9), but you seem to have forgotten.
I did this once many years ago myself, but at least had the
decency to apologize and never let it happen again.
: ---
: Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
I am a star. Hale-Bopp is a comet.
>You can be a childish prig if you want to. That doesn't make
>it a good idea.
You churl, Christian. I thought childish prig was the insult you save
for me, and me alone. I am so heartbroken. You've cheated on me
<sob>.
"Bitchy Queen on a Bad Hair Day!" Now I know my life has meaning!
>It should have been possible for me to easily
>relay this to you personally, but it wasn't.
>It's pretty obvious that there's no "brave new
>nation" to be seen in anything you are doing.
You could have gotten my e-mail by either asking me, or getting it
from one of my many "irrelevant" posted essays or poems.
---
Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
Public dialogue only, no spamming.
>Bullshit. All you're doing is provoking people in these other groups
>and inviting them to pollute the gay groups with endless flamefests.
Read into it whatever you want. I now know which people in these
newsgroups are the spiteful mean-spirited ones, who just love to jump
on anyone's case at the drop of a diaper...and who are the ones worth
having a dialogue with. Thanks, all, for simplifying the whole
process! I never thought things would be so black-and-white here, but
looks like they are.
Have I? I have told you the effects of what you do. I cannot
forbid you anything.
>Likewise, soc.veterans, especially in this time of so much talk about
>gays in the military. The more GayFolk hang out in that group, the
The point isn't where you go, it is what you drag back in here. If we
had such a need to disrupt other people's turf (especially
alt.christnet) we would go there. You brought it back into motss where
it is not welcome and, again, you have tried to side-step it.
>military newsgroup? If you have a lesbian or Thracian friend or
>relative in the military, you have a right to be there. If you even
You only read yourself, don't you?
>ever feel at home in the world. There is no newsgroup that I know of
>that is entitled, "alt.homophobes"...ergo, there is no newsgroup that
As I have explicitely told you, alt.politics.homosexuality was created
with the express purpose to channel homohating debates to it so that
soc.motss could get rid of them. But, as is obvious, you only read
yourself.
FJ!!
"Protesteren moet je leren" - Marije Schadee in _Trouw_
>> ... Thracian ... Hellenic People ...
>
>Your ignorance of what these words really mean is truly
>astounding. Homosexuality in modern society is very
>different from homosexuality in ancient Mediterranean
>cultures, and you can't consider yourself Hellenic
>unless you regularly work out in the nude with lots
>of uncircumsized men (see the gymbots thread).
Tell me something I don't already know, please! "Hellenic" and
"Hellenistic" can broadly cover many, many centuries...there is
"Hellenic" for the classical Greek era, there is "Hellenistic" for the
era of Alexander The Great and longer...then there are Hellenistic
peoples who lived during and beyond the Roman Empire's time.
So in general, a "Hellenist" is one who apprecites some aspects
derived from the history and influence of classical, and later, Greek
culture. We do use the word "Lesbian" you know...or does that word
offend you? So I thought to mirror that word for gay men...and
"Thracian" is the one I came up with. Then another person,
Fireweaver, suggested "Hellenic" as a general term in lieu of "Gay
Community".
I love Fireweaver's idea, and have now incorporated it...for it solves
the chauvanism of using both "gay" to mean "homophile men" and also to
mean "homophile women and men". It also creates this lovely triad:
Hellene
/ \
Lesbian Thracian
These are two very dignified words that we can easily add to our
lexicon. The things a culture enjoy most, often have many, many word
variations therefrom. (The things they don't really care about one
way or the other, well, one or two words will suffice.) The Innuit
(Eskimo) has a lot of different words for "snow," yet we have only a
few. It is up to us, as Hellenes, to broaden, embellish, and further
dignify our lexicon...as a positive way of rediscovering and
reinventing ourselves for a new and exciting century.
>>You speak poorly for your people, and if you are more than twelve
>>years old, you should know better, and be ashamed for your vicious
>>attitude.
>
>You trivialize everyone's complaints and dare to shame others
>for attitude. When you go out of your way to show disrespect
>for people then they are much less likely to show respect for
>you.
I show no disrespect...but when some people greatly exaggerate
whatever offense they claim I made, to the extent of committing
slander...then I call the shots as I see fit. I am aware that maybe
some of these folks may be suffering from HIV or other serious
illness...so if they really must continue attacking me...well, go
ahead. I would never attempt to sabotage their access to the
Internet, as one has already done, and another has just threatened.
Where's the democracy in this?
Ahhh, democracy, that great Hellene ideal, just one among many jewels
from their philosophic and cerebral minds! How few really apply it in
their personal lives. True democracy must live and breathe in your
daily actions and thoughts...is parallel to the ideal of Zen
meditation: that everything you do--this includes mundane chores--is
performed as an act of meditation. This does not at all mean being
soft, squishy, and oh so nicey-nicey...but it does mean to be calm,
even in your battles. Centered.
---
Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
http://www.fog.net/ekrahlin ekra...@fog.net
Oh, who cares what he wrote. Who *is* this fucker, and
why is he forging posts to look as if they came from a
Canadian ISP?
--
Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@light.lightlink.com
If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
> I show no disrespect...but when some people greatly exaggerate
> whatever offense they claim I made, to the extent of committing
where is the exaggeration ?
> slander...then I call the shots as I see fit. I am aware that maybe
> some of these folks may be suffering from HIV or other serious
what an ass
> illness...so if they really must continue attacking me...well, go
> ahead. I would never attempt to sabotage their access to the
> Internet, as one has already done, and another has just threatened.
Liar. No one has attempted to sabotage your internet access. I asked your
postmaster to ask you to stop cross-posting to inappropriate newsgroups.
My response was appropriate, because not one of the postings I saw had
your little "Reply to:" line. Your true email address was not available.
On yourself.
ChristianM
>In article <33298314...@news.wco.com>,
Well, I'm *important*!
---
My web page kicks ass!
http://www.fog.net/ekrahlin
ekra...@fog.net
Public dialog only, no spamming.
Hostile private replies will be publicly posted.