DVD-Audio front end
Writer
acquired a unit, would they be obliged to upgrade their receiver (Yamaha
2095 in my case) to properly handle the DVD-Audio output?
Writer
Niall Young
Depends on the player, your receiver and what you want
to hear.
5.1 channel analogue outputs should be available on all
DVD-Audio players, so if your receiver has a 5.1 input
then you can use this and the audio will all be decoded
using the player's DACs.
If you only have an SPDIF/digital input on your receiver
then you can listen to a crippled stream (2 channel only)
using your receiver's DACs. Presumably, content authors
will also include a Dolby Digital/DTS track but this will
never be as good as the lossless MLP 5.1 audio that makes
this format shine.
Then, if (not when) the digital copyright issues are
resolved, we may see an approved 5.1 MLP digital interface
and you can go buy a new receiver too :-) The amusing
thing is that a lack of MLP digital interface won't stop
piracy, all it does is prevent consumers from enjoying
the best quality possible on their equipment. DVD-Audio
will be decoded, ripped, copied and re-encoded on PCs
everywhere - it's inevitable and impossible to prevent.
Trevor S
> Writer wrote:
> >
> > With DVD-Audio/DVD players starting to pop up at
> > frightening costs, if one acquired a unit, would they be
> > obliged to upgrade their receiver (Yamaha 2095 in my case)
> > to properly handle the DVD-Audio output?
>
> Depends on the player, your receiver and what you want
> to hear.
>
> 5.1 channel analogue outputs should be available on all
> DVD-Audio players, so if your receiver has a 5.1 input
> then you can use this and the audio will all be decoded
> using the player's DACs.
The question here is what does the DVD-A player put down these analogue channels and can
the reciever use the full bandwidth of that signal ?
<snip>
> Then, if (not when) the digital copyright issues are
> resolved, we may see an approved 5.1 MLP digital interface
> and you can go buy a new receiver too :-) The amusing
> thing is that a lack of MLP digital interface won't stop
> piracy, all it does is prevent consumers from enjoying
> the best quality possible on their equipment. DVD-Audio
> will be decoded, ripped, copied and re-encoded on PCs
> everywhere - it's inevitable and impossible to prevent.
Agreed, obviously a system desgined by engineers at the behest of lawyers :)
I think I will avoid DVD-A until they sort out the digital transport issues, if they
don't, so be it, I will ignore it. I noted with some interest in AUS.DVD about an
upcoming Apex player with supposed support for DVD-A, I would be curious to listen to the
DVD-A sound from the DACs used in such a price sensitive player ... sigh... I am guessing
CD-A via dig. transport to my receiver would sound better.
<snip>
Trevor S
Mal P
> DVD-Audio players, so if your receiver has a 5.1 input
> then you can use this and the audio will all be decoded
> using the player's DACs.
Indeed. However, be weary of certain recievers with 5.1 inputs that "sample"
the signal, i.e. digitises the signal internally before converting back to
analog again. Needless to say, the benefits of the high resolution DVD Audio
signal is thus for the most part, lost.
--
Cheerio,
Mal
Jason Mulligan
pandor...@hotmail.com says...
How do you know if a given receiver does this? I'm curious to know if my
receiver does so. Admittedly, its only a little Sony STR-DE835. But I'm
curious nonetheless.
Writer
across this explanation from Pioneer Electronics' site in the UK. It's
quite interesting, I think, but the last Q/A amused me - you have to take
six analogue feeds from the DVD-Audio player into your pre-amp/receiver
front end. I would have thought a fibre optic feed would have been utilised
but then realised that we're talking about yet another decoder which will (I
guess) become a feature of the next generation of front ends. Sigh, it
never ends ...............
Writer
(here's the Pioneer blurb)
What is DVD-Audio?
DVD-Audio is a new music format that offers a major advance in audio
performance by providing the listener with Advanced Resolution stereo (2
channels) and/or multi-channel (surround sound up to 6 channels) music.
Consumer electronics manufacturers are developing a full range of DVD-Audio
players including home decks, car and portable players.
What is the difference between DVD-Audio and CD?DVD?
Audio can provide dramatically higher quality stereo than CD with a sampling
rate of up to 192kHz for two-channel recordings (compared to 44.1 kHz for
CD). DVD-Audio digital sound can be delivered with up to 24 bits of data
(compared to 16 bits for the CD standard).Unlike CD, DVD-Audio has the
ability to offer Advanced Resolution multi-channel sound. Artists and
producers can offer listeners a playback experience that is far more
faithful to the master recording than ever before possible in home
entertainment systems. And by using six channels they can get closer than
ever before to recreating the sound as we might hear it in the concert hall.
Multi-channel recordings can be delivered with up to 24 bit resolution and
96kHz sampling frequency. Like DVD-Video, a typical single-sided DVD-Audio
disc contains up to seven times the data capacity of a CD. For DVD-Audio,
this additional data capacity is used primarily for music - either Advanced
Resolution quality sound or for longer recordings; DVD-Audio discs may also
offer visual content that can be accessed from on-screen menus. This may
include text information such as artist biographies, playlists and lyrics;
photo galleries; and even video clips.
What is the difference between DVD-Audio and DVD-Video?
DVD-Video is primarily a visual medium that offers fantastic picture quality
compared with VHS tapes. In addition, DVD-Video offers stereo and compressed
multi-channel surround sound utilising Dolby Digital or DTS encoding. Again
compared with VHS, the sound quality on DVD-Video discs is fantastic. In the
same way that DVD-Video offers improved picture quality compared to other
video playback formats, DVD-Audio offers improved sound quality compared to
what is possible with either DVD-Video or CDs. DVD-Audio is capable of
providing this superior listening experience in both stereo and/or
multi-channel audio without requiring the compression technology (such as
Dolby Digital and DTS) necessary for the audio that accompanies DVD-Video
playback. Not all DVD-Video titles employ Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks,
of course. The technical specification for DVD-Video allows linear PCM audio
coding (LPCM) to be used too. However, this LPCM audio can only be
two-channel stereo. Bit depth can be 16, 20 or 24 bits, with sampling
frequencies of 48 or 96kHz. (Note: 44.1/16 bit LPCM, as used on CDs, is not
included in the DVD-Video specification.) (Additional note: there are
several dozen music titles available around the world containing superb
96kHz/24 bit LPCM two-channel audio. These have been referred to in the
press variously as 'audiophile DVDs' and 'Digital Audio Discs' or 'DADs'.
They are in fact DVD-Video discs that can be played by any DVD-Video player,
as 96/24 LPCM is part of the DVD-V 'standard'.)
Can I play DVD-Audio discs on a CD player?
No, DVD-Audio discs cannot be played on a conventional CD player. Can I play
DVD-Audio discs on a current DVD-Video player? In theory you need a new
DVD-Audio capable player to play DVD-Audio discs. And you certainly need a
DVD-Audio player in order to hear the High Resolution audio content and
access the text pages, photographs, etc. However, all the new DVD-Audio
releases from the Warner/Elektra/Atlantic family of labels will also play on
a DVD-Video player because they contain a Dolby Digital surround sound mix
in the 'video title set' on the disc. Similarly the Barenboim series of
Beethoven Symphonies on Teldec and releases from the American Silverline
label are compatible with DVD-V players too. It will be interesting to see
whether other major record companies follow this lead. This website will of
course keep you informed.
What kinds of music will be available on DVD-Audio?
All genres of music are expected to be released - from all the world's major
record companies - including popular catalogue titles that will be remixed
and remastered to bring the listener closer than ever to the master
recording. New titles will emerge that have been recorded with DVD-Audio's
capabilities in mind.
What new interactive features are possible with DVD-Audio?
DVD-Audio allows for a variety of playback options including simply pushing
the play button to go right to music playback - just like the CDs we've been
playing for the past two decades. Users may also choose the on-screen menus
to navigate to such options as artist biographies, lyrics, photo galleries,
catalogue or discographies and video clips. Some titles may also link to
related web sites when used on a DVD-ROM drive in a computer. Just as
DVD-Video decoding has become a standard feature with current PCs, you can
be sure that PCs equipped with DVD-Audio decoding will soon become the norm.
Is the audio content compressed or uncompressed?
The DVD-Audio format is designed to deliver the highest audio fidelity
possible. No lossy audio compression is used on any primary audio content on
a DVD-Audio. However, uncompressed audio files tend to be large, and they
require high bandwidth for delivery. Because of these constraints, as an
option to the content provider, the DVD-Audio format features a special form
of lossless compression called Meridian Lossless Packing (MLP). The key
difference between lossy compression and lossless compression, such as MLP,
is that lossless compression does not discard any audio information. All of
the audio content can be completely and accurately reconstructed from an MLP
file, achieving the ultimate in fidelity. A DVD-Audio disc may use MLP to
solve two different technical issues: First, if the content provider finds
that there is not enough room on the disc for all the audio content, then
MLP may be used to reduce the size of audio files so that everything fits on
the disc. Second, if the content provider intends to deliver 96kHz/24 bit
6-channel surround sound, MLP must be used on this audio to reduce the
bandwidth requirement to one that can be handled by the DVD-Audio player.
(Note: press the Audio button on the handset of your DVD-Audio player and
you may see something like "96/24 PPCM" on your display monitor. PPCM stands
for Packed PCM.) MLP represents the ultimate in high-fidelity audio
compression because it is the only compression format supported by DVD-Audio
that allows every bit of the original recording to be reproduced accurately
and completely.
Do I need a full 'home cinema' set-up to enjoy DVD-Audio?
No, you do not need a home cinema system to enjoy the high-quality stereo
audio or additional visual features of a DVD-Audio disc. However, as many
DVD-Audio discs feature surround sound music, you will need a 5.1 channel
surround sound system to take full advantage of this music format.
Will my DVD-Audio player require me to add any new equipment to my current
system?
If you are interested only in hearing music in two-channel stereo and seeing
the special visual features on a DVD-Audio disc, a high-quality stereo
system with a TV monitor will work fine. If you want to experience the
surround sound music found on many DVD-Audio discs, you will need a surround
sound system capable of handling a DVD-Audio player's audio output. Current
DVD-Audio players require a surround sound receiver or preamplifier with six
discrete analogue inputs, each corresponding to the various channels in the
surround sound field (Left Front, Centre, Right Front, Left Rear, Right
Rear, LFE). LFE stands for Low Frequency Effects; in other words, it's the
subwoofer channel - the ".1" in a "5.1" system. If you own a home cinema
receiver, preamplifier or decoder that doesn't have a 6-channel input, you
will not be able to hear the uncompressed high-quality surround sound audio.
You will still be able to hear the stereo audio as well as any Dolby
Digital/DTS surround sound music on the DVD-Audio disc. Surround sound music
frequently uses the rear surround sound channels in a way that is different
from movie soundtracks. If you have small rear speakers or speakers that are
not matched sonically to your front main and centre speaker, you may want to
upgrade them so all of your speakers are matched sonically. And if you want
to hear the best quality possible from your DVD-Audio disc, you may want to
consider upgrading your home cinema system to new components that are
specially designed to reproduce the incredible fidelity found in the
high-resolution output from DVD-Audio discs.
"Jason Mulligan" <sul...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.152699afa...@news.dingoblue.net.au...
Andrew Reilly
players won't do this for you, and the multi-channel amplifiers
want to do it in the digital domain. So they have to do an A/D
conversion, so that they can use the same digital filters that
they use for DTS, DVD and CD. Slam! (The sound of DVD-A sound
quality going out the door.)
Maybe the only way forward is five "front-main" speakers, each
with their own amplifier. But I can't see too many folk going
that way...
--
Andrew
Trevor S
"Andrew Reilly" <and...@gurney.reilly.home> wrote in message
news:slrn9bnt4s...@gurney.reilly.home...
I guess it depends on your system ? I don't see it as an issue personally as I have large
speakers capable of handling the "full range" all round. Wouldn't bass mangement for
Audio be a purists nightmare ?
Trevor S
Trevor S
news:TtSu6.20176$992.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> After posting the original thread and hunting elsewhere on the web, I came
> across this explanation from Pioneer Electronics' site in the UK. It's
> quite interesting, I think, but the last Q/A amused me - you have to take
> six analogue feeds from the DVD-Audio player into your pre-amp/receiver
> front end. I would have thought a fibre optic feed would have been utilised
> but then realised that we're talking about yet another decoder which will (I
> guess) become a feature of the next generation of front ends. Sigh, it
> never ends ...............
Also remember SP/DIF does not have enough bandwidth to handle the MLP DataStream, so
another standard needs to be ratified AND as Niall originally pointed out DVD-A does NOT
allow the digital transport at the moment and may never. This sux the big red one IMO and
basically counts me out of entering the DVD-A world, except by stealth (ie it come as a
feature on some future DVD-V player I purchase). I have been waiting to upgrade my DSP-A1
av amp to something that will decode the DVD-A MLP digital signal but due to the anal
retentiveness of the consortium I am not holding my breathe awaiting the resolution of
their copyright issues.
Trevor S
<snip>
Niall Young
>
> as Niall originally pointed out DVD-A does NOT
> allow the digital transport at the moment and may never.
> waiting to upgrade my DSP-A1 av amp to something that
> will decode the DVD-A MLP digital signal but due to the
> anal retentiveness of the consortium I am not holding my
> breathe awaiting the resolution of their copyright issues.
Meridian are bringing out their own MLP digital interface
for use with their line of receivers and players. I think
it was similar to an RS-232 serial connector...
Midiman have a rackmount/PCI combo that includes 8
24bit 96kHz DACs - once MLP compression is reverse
engineered we should be able to send each separate
channel as a stream to each DAC.
I think the only copyright issues that need to be
resolved is for the MPAA/RIAA and other DMCA wielding
monopolies to realise that once content is digitized
you *cannot* prevent illegal distribution. The only
people they're hurting are the consumers who want to
legitimately use their products - if they keep screwing
them around they'll just stop buying and support open
formats and content providers who `get it'.
Of course, if they created a physical medium that never
made its way to the PC architecture (a contradiction,
or at least a bullet in their own feet), then they'd have
a fighting chance.
Jason Mulligan
> Trevor S wrote:
> >
> > as Niall originally pointed out DVD-A does NOT
> > allow the digital transport at the moment and may never.
> <snip>
> > waiting to upgrade my DSP-A1 av amp to something that
> > will decode the DVD-A MLP digital signal but due to the
> > anal retentiveness of the consortium I am not holding my
> > breathe awaiting the resolution of their copyright issues.
>
> Meridian are bringing out their own MLP digital interface
> for use with their line of receivers and players. I think
> it was similar to an RS-232 serial connector...
Actually, leaving aside the issue of copyright paranoia, I'm suprised
some version of firewire hasnt been nominated to be used for this
purpose. Same with a digital video out for DVD.
Niall Young
>
> I'm suprised some version of firewire hasnt been
> nominated to be used for this purpose. Same with a
> digital video out for DVD.
The MPAA seem to want everyone to move to `secure'
SDI (Serial Digital Interface - at least from memory
that's what I think it is called) for HD video. The
video stream will be encrypted right to the display device,
and if your player/display doesn't support this you'll
get a downsampled SD stream only.
Add in CPRM `enhanced' hard drives and other developments
that seem to be bringing the open PC architecture to an
end, and we have reason to be scared. Very scared.