WB: DoK sez / Smut sez
CJ Martin
has been hard down since Sunday. The newserver seems to be back online, but it
missed DoK's post. Fortunately, I have read only access to another news server,
thus I am able to respond at last. Onward...
DoK wrote:
>Smut wrote:
>> You are probably the single person most responsable for
>> getting the B-17 banned from the forward fields due to your actions in the
>> arena. When others complain, you tell them to "Deal with it".
>Actually, you're lying again here. I proposed several solutions, and
>agreed with most others.
So your online id isn't 'DoKG'? That wasn't you that typed out the "hehe learn
to deal with it" (or words to that effect) over the radio when someone
complained about your AB-17?
How is this a lie? Explain. I didn't say that you didn't offer solutions here.
Online, however, you thought it was a big joke. True or False?
>> This from someone who has input into how the strategic aspects of WarBirds
>> will come about.
>It's precisely because I'm so devious and evile that the strat stuff I
>design will be much, much harder to fool. But you'd rather spin your
>little web of assinine conspiracy theories and spread lies about my
>abilities.
What lies? Name one single lie I told about you.
Just one. Go ahead.
>Basically, based on what you're done in the last few months, my conclusion
>is that you're a useless, lying sack of shit. I offered you the chance
>during Kiel to make recommendations about fixes to be made (which you say
>you're good at) and all I got a list of shit I knew was broken already.
>Well, duh, what about ways to fix it? You seem to be happier complaining
>than actually helping.
You are correct, when you asked for a list of features I'd like to see in the
arena I said:
"Ok, how about this for starters:
WEP
Rolling terrain
.50 lethality upgrading
Fixed flight models (i.e. the F4U)
Multicrewed B-17s
Manable AAA"
I also said:
"How can we talk of new features, when the 'old' new features have not yet been
implemented?"
Still don't get it?
I don't want *anything* new until we get what we were promised months ago.
That's all. I think ICI should concentrate on putting out what they promised,
and *then* add more new stuff. Why bother overloading them *more* when they are
obviously working as hard as they possible can to deliver the above list of
features?
Still, since everyone was bitching about the WarBirds fort, and since I have a
little bit of time in one, I presented a list of changes *I* think would make it
a better airplane. I'm sooorrryy if I did not present it to your worship first
for your approval, but since you never responded on way or another to my email,
I figured I'd just post my ideas in public. I guess you missed that post.
So your statement "You seem to be happier complaining than actually helping" is
not entirely true. Some might even call it a lie.
>And now, a week after the damn event is over, you're still casting me as a
>fucking villian for the way Kiel went down. Maybe you had a crappy time,
>but a lot of other people did not. A lot of people had a blast. A lot of
>people who didn't spend almost every waking moment bitching and moaning
>and whining and complaining had a fucking great time - warps, dumps,
>frame-rate and all.
How am I doing this? I have publicly said that your 'adjustments' didn't really
seem to matter all that much to the outcome. It was the change of tactics by the
LW that made the difference. Others seem to agree with me.
If you really think I spent "almost every waking moment bitching and moaning and
whining and complaining", maybe you should talk to the members of the 303rd, and
ask *them* what they think of me.
<f word mode on>
If you're pissed because I fought for my group and what I thought was best for
them, well, too fucking bad. As a group leader, I felt it was my responsibly to
do everything I could to protect my troops. You don't want Group leaders, you
want fucking sheep. Go ask the 303rd or the staff of the USAAF about how much
work I put into this. Less than you, to be sure, and less than BK or Tark/RH/Doc
did, but still quite a bit of effort. If I didn't want to fucking help, then why
the fuck did I get involved in this in the first place? Why did I volunteer to
be the BGL? Why, DoK?
<f word mode off>
Before you make you meaningless and petty judgements of me and my actions, maybe
you should go talk to the 303rd.
>And if ICI wants to fire me for saying all this - right now I could care
>less - I've taken your shit now for almost 2 months and enough is enough.
ICI fire you because of me? HA! Don't act like such a martyr.
Poor DoK, you sound like a tired old woman. Can't come up with any real facts,
so you just call me a liar. Can't stand it when a GL stands up for his troops,
so you call me names. Can't tell the truth because you've forgotten what the
truth is...
Smut
----------
CJ Martin, ex-AT2 USN | Callsign Smut on WarBirds
Former Tomcat Tweaker | XO, <Flying Pigs> squadron
Ex-Starfighter (VF-33) | "Oink! Oink! To War!"
Visit Smuts WB page at http://atc.ameritel.net/lusers/smut/index.html
Mark S. Miller
Probably just a pig passing gas.
--
____________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller IV-Q Scummyvale, Fornicalia
"Different things vary." msmi...@lotsofplaces.com
mailto:msmi...@world.std.com http://world.std.com/~msmiller
COOPER
>I thought I heard something.
>Probably just a pig passing gas.
gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
at least implies it.
It only SOUNDS like a pig passing gas...
-moggy
--
gary cooper (not the dead one) 804 963 8539
mailto:mo...@kesmai.com
Kesmai Corp. Air Warrior/Harpoon Product Support
http://www.cris.com/~cooper
-Squid-
> gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
> much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
> at least implies it.
I just re-read the post, and fail to see where he said or even implied
anything like that.
-Squid-
Mark S. Miller
> [...] I won't jump on the "DoK is a God" bandwagon [...]
There's a vast difference between the above, and what you've been saying.
And then you get your squadmates to enter the fray and demand that I
should be replaced:
> Message-ID: <4gj34i$d...@tlaltec.tezcat.com>
>
> [...]
>
> Perhaps somebody other than DoK ought be given the chance?
>
> New game, fresh blood, new ideas. We've seen how Kesmai and Dok worked
> the Air Warrior Scenarios. Perhaps the collective ICI paying public
> wouldn't mind something potentially greater. Maybe some of think that
> DoK's overbearing, boorish, vitrolic manner makes scenarios not worth
> playing. We'll never know what somebody else could do unless somebody
> else gets a chance.
>
> -XX-
> VF-33 <The F'ing Pigs>
Given that you know that this is a consulting arrangement for me, I would
say this counts as pushing the level of engagement up a notch, Smut.
Anyway ...
I have yet to meet anyone else who's run one of these friggin' things who
has not come away with bloody stumps. Hell, just dealing with the
registration pushes some people over the edge (folks requesting Fw's for
Pacific events, folks who don't appear to know their own EMail addresses
... or postal addresses , stuff like that). Endless bickering. Sifting and
sorting through 100's of player registrations and scores. Having to read
piles of Email and BBS stuff every damn nite. Dealing with various forms
of psychosis from the troops. Maintaining a mirrored WWW site. More
bickering. Blowing a month's worth of weekends and weeknights sitting on
the ground monitoring the missions. And on and on and on.
It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
your life for that month.
But hey ... anyone else is more than welcome to try. Most of the things
which must be added for scenario support are on the table ... not sure
when they'll all get here ... and hopefully we'll get the WWW-based
reg/scoring system up in the next few weeks.
And we're probably gonna need to add an event this summer if the influx of
new players is what is expected. So here's your chance. I'm hoping the
fall event is Eastern front, but there's enough planes for quite a number
of things to be done for summer. Maybe something in the Med ...
Spits/38's/B25's vs. Fw's/109's. Or if you don't like me running the
missions - sign up as an ACM - YOU guys run the missions - you'll be
compensated for your time.
There's plenty of other shit for me to work on. The reason I asked about
the dueling ladder thing elsewhere is so I can better allocate my time
between all the stuff that needs attention.
It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
-DoK
Daniel Drumm
: msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) writes:
: >I thought I heard something.
: >Probably just a pig passing gas.
: gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
: much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
: at least implies it.
: It only SOUNDS like a pig passing gas...
: -moggy
At least the Pig's smell comes out the ass and not out the mouth.
Perhaps somebody other than DoK ought be given the chance?
New game, fresh blood, new ideas. We've seen how Kesmai and Dok worked
the Air Warrior Scenarios. Perhaps the collective ICI paying public
wouldn't mind something potentially greater. Maybe some of think that
DoK's overbearing, boorish, vitrolic manner makes scenarios not worth
playing. We'll never know what somebody else could do unless somebody
else gets a chance.
-XX-
VF-33 <The F'ing Pigs>
--
-
Daniel G. Drumm | dr...@tezcat.com | http://www.tezcat.com/~drmm
PGP 2.6.2 Public Key Available by Finger or WWW
Member of Chicago's Finest ISP
CJ Martin
>msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) writes:
>
>>I thought I heard something.
>
>>Probably just a pig passing gas.
>
>gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
>much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
>at least implies it.
>
>It only SOUNDS like a pig passing gas...
>
>
>-moggy
Where have I made any claim of the sort?
Where?
Just because I fail to throw myself prostrate whenever the "mighty" DoK speaks
doesn't mean I don't respect most of his efforts WRT Kiel, nor does it mean
that I think I could do better. I am sure I could not, and I have no desire to
try.
It seems that when DoK is confronted with the truth, he refuses to answer
except by his (pretty lame) flames. He called me a liar, and I challenged him
to prove his accusation. I am still waiting...
BTW, moggy, who the hell asked you? I have no beef with you. If your pissed at
me because I won't jump on the "DoK is a God" bandwagon, well, I guess that's
your problem. Why can't his Grace speak for himself and answer the facts?
Smut
Hardin Gilbert
-*kasnip*-
: _DoK's_ overbearing, boorish, vitriolic manner
You did mean Dok? Seems equally applicable to Smut. :)
Tarkus
>> Coo...@cris.com (COOPER) writes:
>> gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
>> much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
>> at least implies it.
>I just re-read the post, and fail to see where he said or even implied
>anything like that.
>-Squid-
Same here.
T
CJ Martin
D'oh!
Anything but "boorish"!!!
And I think Mrs. Smut would disagree on the "overbearing" part too...
How 'bout "stubborn, hot tempered & politically incorrect"?
<g>
Smut
YOSS
James G. Schuldes <j...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>
>All I wanna know is:
>
>Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all players, no?
>
>hehe,
>
>sNaK! out.
>
>Jim Schuldes
>etc, etc.
>
>
Snak, the patch is in /pub/wbfiles/dos, "kiel04.exe."
You'll have to manually copy it to a 3.5" floppy,
and don't forget to use a THICK needle when you sew
it on your jacket.
Yoss
--
-------------------------------------------------
| WB:yoss (Yossarian VF-17, the Jolly Rogers) 8X |
| http://www2.hawaii.edu/~clumpkin/yoss.html |
-------------------------------------------------
Stephen W. Evans
wrote:
>COOPER (Coo...@cris.com) wrote:
>: msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) writes:
>: >I thought I heard something.
>: >Probably just a pig passing gas.
>: gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
>: much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
>: at least implies it.
>At least the Pig's smell comes out the ass and not out the mouth.
>
>Perhaps somebody other than DoK ought be given the chance?
Actually other people HAVE run scenarios, at least in AW, and so
far no one (myself included as I ran a pacific event) has shown they
can do a better job than DoK.
Anyone, though, is allowed to organize an event. Just tell us when
and we can throw up an arena. For DoK though, he has enough of a track
record we are willing to design new terrain, put a rush on certain
planes, things like that. If someone else develops a similar track
record and shows a similar willingness to put up with all the
bullshit that goes along with the job, then they would get similar
treatment. I tried CM'ing... frankly I hated it... being a CO in
one of these events was about all the work I could stand... CM'ing
one is that to the second or third power.
I've seen the shit DoK puts up with, I have even given him more
than alittle shit... I think you grossly underestimate the amount
of work and hassle this thing involves.
But hey, if you think you can do it.... First try a couple one
day events, schedule them about 4 weeks in advance with a posting
of the rules, ect, and we will arrange a special arena for it.
If you can handle the one day events with all the attendant
scheduling, people bitching at you, ect ect... THEN think about
multiday events.... In a year or so maybe you can work up to
some of the 12 frame monsters that DoK runs, maybe even without
bursting a blood vessel in the process.
--- Steve
Stephen W. Evans clgl - Caligula - WarBirds
ICI Host/Mac Programmer 4548 - Caligula - Air Warrior
cali...@cris.com Friends don't let friends do DOS.
PGP public key available by finger ev...@rex.pfc.mit.edu
James G. Schuldes
[snipped]
>
> It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
> involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
>
All I wanna know is:
Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all players, no?
hehe,
sNaK! out.
Jim Schuldes
etc, etc.
COOPER
>> gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
>> much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
>> at least implies it.
>I just re-read the post, and fail to see where he said or even implied
>anything like that.
yah - it might require a brain to figger it out.
COOPER
>At least the Pig's smell comes out the ass and not out the mouth.
oh my. how witty. You might want to read a few flames before
trying one - at this point you couldn't flame with a can of gas
and a match..
>Perhaps somebody other than DoK ought be given the chance?
Lots of folks have designed scenarios - lots of good ones. If
you don't like DoK and/or his scenarios dont play 'em. Simple.
If you want to see new stuff - do it yerself or quit whining
about it.
I have never, in 3 years of playing his scenarios, seen one of the
morons who bitch and moan about his designs do one of their own.
Why don't you or smutty shock us and get of yer asses and do one.
> fresh blood,
hah - you haven't looked at the WB employee list lately have
you? Say what you will about their genius, they ain't fresh
meat in this genre.
>new ideas. We've seen how Kesmai and Dok worked
>the Air Warrior Scenarios.
have you? Never heard of you before.
>Perhaps the collective ICI paying public
>wouldn't mind something potentially greater.
possible - but I'd bet you cash none of you will do a damn
thing about it besides bitch and moan.
>Maybe some of think that
>DoK's overbearing, boorish, vitrolic manner makes scenarios not worth
>playing. We'll never know what somebody else could do unless somebody
>else gets a chance.
Could be - dunno - never saw his manner as having anything to do
with it - but then I've only flown maybe 7 or 8 of them...
>VF-33 <The F'ing Pigs>
oh no. I've got a squad after me. Might actually be enough to
force me to find the time to play. 'Course judging from yer spew, yer
a bunch of dweebs...
COOPER
>Where have I made any claim of the sort?
ah I see - you bitch and moan without offering to create a
better environment? Yer even more useless than I at first
imagined.
>Where?
Sorry - thought before that you had at least a little
bit of hope.
>Just because I fail to throw myself prostrate whenever the "mighty" DoK speaks
odd - I've never, in my 3 year association with DoK EVER seen him discount
constructive critism.
Course, if you offered constructive critism you might know that...
>doesn't mean I don't respect most of his efforts WRT Kiel, nor does it mean
Yeah, yer respect for his contributions is clearly evident in your
posts.
>that I think I could do better. I am sure I could not, and I have no desire to
>try.
This statement says VOLUMES about your character - or lack thereof.
>It seems that when DoK is confronted with the truth, he refuses to answer
>except by his (pretty lame) flames. He called me a liar, and I challenged him
>to prove his accusation. I am still waiting...
If you flame, expect to get flamed. I actually thought he was
being restrained with you, but that's probably because going after
such an obvious mental defective is no sport.
>BTW, moggy, who the hell asked you?
I just knew I'd lose sleep if I didn't point out to you what a
total and complete idiot you are - though, yer lack of comprehension
of that fact doesn't bother me a bit.
>I have no beef with you. If your pissed at
>me
pissed? You don't even rate 'midly annoyed'.
>because I won't jump on the "DoK is a God" bandwagon, well, I guess that's
>your problem.
guess I'll just have to live with that. Maybe I can find a good therapist
to handle what will obviously develop into a deeply rooted psychosis...
>Why can't his Grace speak for himself and answer the facts?
If you think I'm presuming to speak for or defend DoK you're even
more clueless than the first impression implied.
Mark S. Miller
> Mark S. Miller wrote:
> [snipped]
> >
> > It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
> > involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
> >
>
> All I wanna know is:
>
> Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all
players, no?
Yes.
The 300dpi design was sent to FT a couple weeks back.
The mailing list was sent to Boomer last weekend - had to get the walk-ons
in there.
As far as I know, it's being handled.
Mark S. Miller
> [...] I believe beneath the
> rhetoric Smut's just concerned that WB's has taken some steps
> backwards, which many of us here agree it has, [...]
That's not the impression he gives.
He presents an image of one who has been somehow directly lied to
or misled intentionally.
Which is not the case at all. I think any statements made about WB
reflect what is known at the time they're made. That's why they're
called "plans." It's what we think we're gonna do, or what we think
we wanna do, at the time.
The thing distressing me the most is the warps. Trips has a theory
that it's the PPP connections. I'm starting to believe that. I
notice a lot more bizarre warps when I'm on PPP than when I'm on
serial.
Mark S. Miller
> Snak, the patch is in /pub/wbfiles/dos, "kiel04.exe."
> You'll have to manually copy it to a 3.5" floppy,
> and don't forget to use a THICK needle when you sew
> it on your jacket.
That's not quite fair.
All the needed materials are in ICI's hands.
Boomer has agreed that this is something ICI would do.
If it gets fucked up ... I will deal with it next time and expense it back
to them. Jamming shit into 250 fucking envelopes may, of course, put me in
a bad mood and make me somewhat boorish and overbearing.
hawki
>dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) wrote:
>>Perhaps somebody other than DoK ought be given the chance?
>>New game, fresh blood, new ideas. We've seen how Kesmai and Dok worked
>>the Air Warrior Scenarios. Perhaps the collective ICI paying public
>>wouldn't mind something potentially greater. Maybe some of think that
>>DoK's overbearing, boorish, vitrolic manner makes scenarios not worth
>>playing. We'll never know what somebody else could do unless somebody
>>else gets a chance.
>Then again... maybe it's so hard that no one else would TAKE the job.
>Of course.. then YOU'D take it just to prove a point.... fuck it all
>up... piss off more people than Dok ever has. (well.. that's a
>stretch).
>Did you think about how much knowledge and time it takes to set one of
>these up before you opened your mouth and spewed?
>SkyWolf
><---------------------------------------------------------->
> "Gravity is a Harsh Mistress" (The Tick.)
>Rmy...@cris.com
>SkyWolf -=56=- AW \/ skyw WarBirds (tm)
>http://www.cris.com/~rmyers It's SkyWolf's Lair
> I will NEVER say "Finger me"
><---------------------------------------------------------->
I've flown in one of Dok's scenarios' before (Eagle Day 1 I believe)
and came away with a lot more respect for the guy than I had before it
started.
Hawkeye
COOPER
>Quote the parts where he said that he could do a better
>job running a scenario. Quote the parts where he even implied it.
>Show me the power of your mighty brain.
You're right - I was wrong. I didn't REALIZE that what he
was doing was backseat driving. I had at least enough respect
for him to assume he had the moral fortitude to back up his
complaints with a better solution, but all he was doing was
complaining.
ya know, y'all latching on to THAT tiny part of my arguments (flames,
what have you) about his idiocy - which left a HUGE opening to
further expose his stupidity btw - is the debating equivalent of
the rope-a-dope. If yer gonna make an online, multiplayer flight
sim a hobby, you MIGHT want to learn to think past the next move.
I get the (very humorous) picture of yer little squad all in a huddle
planning out yer next move. It's just so damn precious.
eagerly awaiting your next illconceived move,
-moggy
is there a WB equivalent for "A kill has been recorded"?
-Squid-
> should be replaced:
Don't try to lump -xx- and smut into being the same person. And don't assume
that smut had anything to do with -xx- entering the fray.
>
> Given that you know that this is a consulting arrangement for me, I would
> say this counts as pushing the level of engagement up a notch, Smut.
Ditto my above reply.
> It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
> 20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
> your life for that month.
I enjoyed KIEL, and appreciate the time spent by all, including
yourself, bk, Boomer, and smut.
> But hey ... anyone else is more than welcome to try. Most of the things
> which must be added for scenario support are on the table ... not sure
> when they'll all get here ... and hopefully we'll get the WWW-based
> reg/scoring system up in the next few weeks.
Nothing wrong with variety.
-Squid-
kat...@cris.com
>>I just re-read the post, and fail to see where he said or even implied
>>anything like that.
>
>>-Squid-
>
>Same here.
Yep, I agree.
Kat
SkyWolf
CJ Martin
>dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) writes:
[snip]
My money is on -xx-.
Or *any* of the other Pigs. Pick one. Don't worry, we don't gangbang.
Better yet, how 'bout moggy and DoK vs any two of the Pigs, 2v2.
And remember, in cyberspace, no one can *hear* you scream...
Smut
-Squid-
Quote the parts where he said that he could do a better
job running a scenario. Quote the parts where he even implied it.
Show me the power of your mighty brain.
-Squid-
hawki
>Anyway ...
>I have yet to meet anyone else who's run one of these friggin' things who
>has not come away with bloody stumps. Hell, just dealing with the
>registration pushes some people over the edge (folks requesting Fw's for
>Pacific events, folks who don't appear to know their own EMail addresses
>... or postal addresses , stuff like that). Endless bickering. Sifting and
>sorting through 100's of player registrations and scores. Having to read
>piles of Email and BBS stuff every damn nite. Dealing with various forms
>of psychosis from the troops. Maintaining a mirrored WWW site. More
>bickering. Blowing a month's worth of weekends and weeknights sitting on
>the ground monitoring the missions. And on and on and on.
>It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
>20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
>your life for that month.
>But hey ... anyone else is more than welcome to try. Most of the things
>which must be added for scenario support are on the table ... not sure
>when they'll all get here ... and hopefully we'll get the WWW-based
>reg/scoring system up in the next few weeks.
>And we're probably gonna need to add an event this summer if the influx of
>new players is what is expected. So here's your chance. I'm hoping the
>fall event is Eastern front, but there's enough planes for quite a number
>of things to be done for summer. Maybe something in the Med ...
>Spits/38's/B25's vs. Fw's/109's. Or if you don't like me running the
>missions - sign up as an ACM - YOU guys run the missions - you'll be
>compensated for your time.
>There's plenty of other shit for me to work on. The reason I asked about
>the dueling ladder thing elsewhere is so I can better allocate my time
>between all the stuff that needs attention.
>It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
>involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
> -DoK
I missed the Kiel scenario (didn't sign up in time, it got filled up
in a hurry) but I kinda figured it was going to be a royal headache
for all involved due to the newness of WB. Anyone should have been
able to see that going in. You can have the job of running these
things anytime DoK, it would drive me nuts!
Hawkeye
hawki
>pissed? You don't even rate 'midly annoyed'.
>>because I won't jump on the "DoK is a God" bandwagon, well, I guess that's
>>your problem.
>guess I'll just have to live with that. Maybe I can find a good therapist
>to handle what will obviously develop into a deeply rooted psychosis...
>>Why can't his Grace speak for himself and answer the facts?
>If you think I'm presuming to speak for or defend DoK you're even
>more clueless than the first impression implied.
>-moggy
Actually Moggy, Smut's a good guy, he just fires from the hip alot,
kinda like thinking out loud on the internet. I believe beneath the
rhetoric Smut's just concerned that WB's has taken some steps
backwards, which many of us here agree it has, but the potential for
greatness is still there, and with guys like HT, Killer, DoK, Cal and
the rest on the job it's going to far surpass what it used to be.
Untill then I fly sparingly, logging on just long enuf to see how bad
the warps are on a given nite, if not too bad, I fly, if bad, I don't.
Hawkeye
COOPER
>>>I just re-read the post, and fail to see where he said or even implied
>>>anything like that.
>>
>>Same here.
>Yep, I agree.
yep - I was flat wrong. I just assumed that because he was
bitching and moaning he was saying he could do better. He
doesn't even have the character to try...
-moggy
-Squid-
>
> ya know, y'all latching on to THAT tiny part of my arguments (flames,
> what have you) about his idiocy - which left a HUGE opening to
> further expose his stupidity btw - is the debating equivalent of
That tiny part of your argument? It was the ONLY part of your argument.
> the rope-a-dope. If yer gonna make an online, multiplayer flight
> sim a hobby, you MIGHT want to learn to think past the next move.
heheheheh you sign up for WB, and bring it on, Big Shot.
>
> is there a WB equivalent for "A kill has been recorded"?
>
Yes. But your weak attempt at flaming has not earned one.
BTW, I never defended smut, just questioned your reply, as others have done.
You just assumed that since we are in the same squadron I was defending him.
The lack of reading comprehension you showed in your reply to smut you showed
again in your reply to me.
And since you were totally unable to defend your reply, you resorted to a flame.
A completely predictable response, Gary.
-Squid-
COOPER
>That tiny part of your argument? It was the ONLY part of your argument.
really? The whole part about what he could possibly do to constructively
further his cause didn't get to your site or through yer skull?
>heheheheh you sign up for WB, and bring it on, Big Shot.
If I do, you'll know it when you blow up.
>> is there a WB equivalent for "A kill has been recorded"?
>Yes. But your weak attempt at flaming has not earned one.
aw shucks, what can I POSSIBLY do to impress you? This is
gonna cost me sleep for a week!
>BTW, I never defended smut, just questioned your reply, as others have done.
and you were RIGHT to question it - it was based on the false assumption
that smutty cold do more than bitch.
>You just assumed that since we are in the same squadron I was defending him.
ah. Well, I'd defend my squad mates. I guess I made another false
assumption that you were loyal to your friends. This is really
opening my eyes about the pigs.
>The lack of reading comprehension you showed in your reply to smut you showed
>again in your reply to me.
darn. now I ain't gonna get any sleep for a month.
>And since you were totally unable to defend your reply, you resorted to a flame
that makes the assumption that a flame is a lower form of endeavor.
>A completely predictable response, Gary.
damn. two months.
Geof Evans
>is there a WB equivalent for "A kill has been recorded"?
System: Kill of <insert 4 char.ID> awarded to <insert flamer>
Doc.
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
boo...@cris.com
>Mark S. Miller wrote:
>[snipped]
>>
>> It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
>> involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
>>
>All I wanna know is:
>Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all players, no?
>hehe,
>sNaK! out.
We just got the registration list from DoK that included all the
walk-ons, etc.
Patience grasshopper.. the patches are being worked <g>
boomer
Mark S. Miller
> In article <4glik0$d...@spectator.cris.com>, Coo...@cris.com (COOPER) wrote:
> >tom...@atc.ameritel.net (CJ Martin) writes:
> >>Just because I fail to throw myself prostrate whenever the "mighty"
DoK speaks
> >
> >odd - I've never, in my 3 year association with DoK EVER seen him discount
> >constructive critism.
>
> "Your milage may vary."
Just because I don't act on every suggestion I'm given, don't for an
instant think I ignored them. Some things simply cannot be done in
mid-event.
F'rinstance, when you suggested the rear-bomber view be the tail gunner
view by using some artwork, did I not immediately push that up to ICI.
Only question now on that is to do that (i.e. simple artwork tweek) or
wait until the manned planes come in and let you really jump to the gunner
spot.
But when someone's "constructive criticism" is a stream of attacks on my
abilities, my honesty, and an endless tirade of how unfair everything I do
is, well, duh, guess what kind of response I'll give.
And despite all the shit, never once did it affect how the missions were
scored or run. Even in mission 4 when the host spazzed out right when the
17's released. I could have easily gotten back at Smut and said: "Geee,
host didn't see your bombs drop - tough shit." But I didn't do that, now
did I? Funny how some people forget shit like that.
> >>doesn't mean I don't respect most of his efforts WRT Kiel, nor does it mean
> >
> >Yeah, yer respect for his contributions is clearly evident in your
> >posts.
>
> So? Just because I won't suck his dick? Pahhh!!!
>
> His rep means little to me. Respect is earned, not given. Is that too hard a
> concept for you to understand?
So, let me get this straight. Lets say Galland is still alive - and he
comes to WB - you'd treat him like scum until he "earned" your respect?
I ain't trying to equate myself with Galland, but I've invested 6 or 7
fucking years into doing this. I created these damn events and the
mechanisms to run 'em and score 'em. They started as 30- or 40-player
1-afternoon specials and have evolved into 200+ player month-long
monsters. And, until 6 months ago, this was totally uncompensated for. In
the early years, I had to _pay_ $6/fucking hour to sit on the ground and
monitor events (GEnie's wonderful billing system at work).
I have never ejected someone from am event, or made a CO/XO/whatever step
down - no matter how much shit they gave me. I have almost never missed a
mission - even when there were ACM's on hand - I was always there at some
point. 7 years of that.
Where I come from, that kind of dedication to an idea and to a group of
people (i.e. the players - having someone like Grey Eagle land after a
mission and tell me his "hands are still shaking" is my real reward)
deserves - and demands - respect. Is that too hard a concept for you to
understand?
COOPER
>*Paying* customers that voice critism are, for the most part, ignored. Or
really, I have to wonder what posts you have been reading. You must
certainly have missed all the stuff about new arenas, having them
help us to fix bugs, setting problems and the like. The correct
syntax is alt.games.air-warrior - make sure you've got it spelled right.
>flamed. Deny this if you will, but I have been lurking in the AW newsgroup for
>nearly a year...I've seen it first hand.
prove it. Show me where I ignored them.
>and tact. You seem more concerned with your own ego than that of your players.
well, at that size, you have to admit there's a lot to be concerned
about. 'Course, the fact that I'm typing this during a break in
testing of gunnery on a Saturday afternoon shows how much I care
about our players and the game, doesn't it?
>Guess what? I have voted with my wallet when it comes to AW...I don't play.
your prerogative - I'd defend it to the death. Especially for you. :>
>Now you suggest that complaints must include suggestions on how to make
>things better in order to be taken at face value. What a load of shit. I've
>heard this tired arguement before, and it hold no water in my eyes.
tired? Didn't see the Newsweek story about common courtesy being
proclaimed tired.
>But here's a little clue for you moggy, I've offered *plenty* of ideas to ICI,
>dating back to June of last year. Ask anyone who was on the old ICI BBS about
>my 'enhanced realism' threads. Not flame fests, but ideas. I posted plenty
that's wonderful. I'm sure they appreciate it. Why stop now?
>I personally believe ICI has a full plate right now just getting what was
>promised in the past delivered sometime this lifetime. I've seen lots of great
don't we all.
>Of course, I doubt the concept of delivering anything anywhere close to
>schedule matters to *you* much, as we all know that time moves differently
>over in Kesmai CorpLand. Exactly how long is "two weeks" anyways?
actually, since I've worked here, our schedule has remained pretty
close.
>>Sorry - thought before that you had at least a little
>>bit of hope.
>Really? I guess there is a whole lot of us clueless types running around here,
I admit - it was clueless to assume there was any hope for you.
>>odd - I've never, in my 3 year association with DoK EVER seen him discount
>>constructive critism.
>"Your milage may vary."
I think the word you're forgetting to read is 'constructive'.
>(FYI, clueless one, that was a joke...don't want you to misunderstand that!)
huh? what? huh?
>So? Just because I won't suck his dick? Pahhh!!!
my god - you must have a sore throat if you suck the dick of everyone
you respect. Or do you treat everyones work the same way you treat
DoK's?
>His rep means little to me. Respect is earned, not given. Is that too hard a
>concept for you to understand?
perhaps you could make of list of all that it will take for DoK to
earn your resptect. I'm sure not having it is bothering him to
no end.
>Your unprovoked attacks on me, when you obviously do not know all of the
>facts, speak even louder, IMHO.
enlighten me. What am I missing? btw, ditto your attack on dok.
>Ha! Don't lecture me on flaming. You obviously are no good at it. Any idiot
>can sling mud...big deal.
sniff. coming from such a MASTER in the art, that really hurts.
>The more mud you toss when you don't know what you are talking about, the
>worse you look. Call it the "self basting flame response". I prefer to hang
>people by using their own defecting logic against them.
well, that IS flaming. and again, you are right. my logic was
defective - it assumed you were acting logically.
>Funny thing is I had been contemplating returning to AW and giving it a longer
>try while WarBirds remains in it's current form. Thanks for saving me that
>extra 60-100 bucks a month. A tiny drop of water for you, I'm sure. Go ahead
>and build the player base you want...
you could always come and shoot me down. I'm sure with my defective
logic I'd be no problem for you.
><snicker>
was that a quote from a candy bar?
>Then why bother? Your very posting betrays you. Pahh...you make this way too
>easy.
I post LOTS of times when I'm not pissed. this is fun. I'm just
laughing my ass off at this. can't WAIT for the pigs replies.
>That will be one lucky therapist. I suspect at least one good medical journal
>article, perhaps a book...
much better. you're learning.. slowly, but learning none the less.
>>If you think I'm presuming to speak for or defend DoK you're even
>>more clueless than the first impression implied.
>Hahaha!
>Truly, you are your own self basting flame response. Be proud. Few manage to
>reach that level and still function in day to day life.
do you think I'm speaking for Dok? Do you think I'm defending
him? He needs me to do neither. I'm going after you, not
protecting him. big difference.
CJ Martin
>tom...@atc.ameritel.net (CJ Martin) writes:
>
>
>ah I see - you bitch and moan without offering to create a
>better environment? Yer even more useless than I at first
>imagined.
Thus the pattern of AW customer support comes full circle...
*Paying* customers that voice critism are, for the most part, ignored. Or
flamed. Deny this if you will, but I have been lurking in the AW newsgroup for
nearly a year...I've seen it first hand. Killer responds to bitches with grace
and tact. You seem more concerned with your own ego than that of your players.
Guess what? I have voted with my wallet when it comes to AW...I don't play.
Now you suggest that complaints must include suggestions on how to make
things better in order to be taken at face value. What a load of shit. I've
heard this tired arguement before, and it hold no water in my eyes.
But here's a little clue for you moggy, I've offered *plenty* of ideas to ICI,
dating back to June of last year. Ask anyone who was on the old ICI BBS about
my 'enhanced realism' threads. Not flame fests, but ideas. I posted plenty
here as well...perhaps you should start reading a bit more before you leap of
into the fray. Ignorence may be bliss, but in your case, it only makes you
look foolish.
I personally believe ICI has a full plate right now just getting what was
promised in the past delivered sometime this lifetime. I've seen lots of great
ideas presented here and in other forums and my fear is that some or all of
them will get lost in the shuffle as time goes on. I would like to see ICI get
caught up a bit, take a wee break, and *then* start adding new stuff.
Of course, I doubt the concept of delivering anything anywhere close to
schedule matters to *you* much, as we all know that time moves differently
over in Kesmai CorpLand. Exactly how long is "two weeks" anyways?
>>Where?
>
>Sorry - thought before that you had at least a little
>bit of hope.
Really? I guess there is a whole lot of us clueless types running around here,
because no one else seems to think that I said or inferred what you think I
did.
>>Just because I fail to throw myself prostrate whenever the "mighty" DoK speaks
>
>odd - I've never, in my 3 year association with DoK EVER seen him discount
>constructive critism.
"Your milage may vary."
>Course, if you offered constructive critism you might know that...
Course, if you had even the slightest idea of where my complaints were coming
from, you wouldn't seem like such a buffoon. Of course, you must be all
knowing...you probably knew, in advance, of all of the problems with the
WarBirds B-17. Here's one for the rumor page...it was all a Kesmai Corp plot!
(FYI, clueless one, that was a joke...don't want you to misunderstand that!)
>>doesn't mean I don't respect most of his efforts WRT Kiel, nor does it mean
>
>Yeah, yer respect for his contributions is clearly evident in your
>posts.
So? Just because I won't suck his dick? Pahhh!!!
His rep means little to me. Respect is earned, not given. Is that too hard a
concept for you to understand?
>>that I think I could do better. I am sure I could not, and I have no desire to
>
>>try.
>
>This statement says VOLUMES about your character - or lack thereof.
Your unprovoked attacks on me, when you obviously do not know all of the
facts, speak even louder, IMHO.
>>It seems that when DoK is confronted with the truth, he refuses to answer
>>except by his (pretty lame) flames. He called me a liar, and I challenged him
>>to prove his accusation. I am still waiting...
>
>If you flame, expect to get flamed. I actually thought he was
>being restrained with you, but that's probably because going after
>such an obvious mental defective is no sport.
Ha! Don't lecture me on flaming. You obviously are no good at it. Any idiot
can sling mud...big deal.
The more mud you toss when you don't know what you are talking about, the
worse you look. Call it the "self basting flame response". I prefer to hang
people by using their own defecting logic against them.
Such as you and yours.
>>BTW, moggy, who the hell asked you?
>
>I just knew I'd lose sleep if I didn't point out to you what a
>total and complete idiot you are - though, yer lack of comprehension
>of that fact doesn't bother me a bit.
Jump in any time froggy...here's a little hint for you though:
You may want to lose your corperate .sig when you go on the attack. With your
defective logic, you are making both yourself AND your employer look bad.
Funny thing is I had been contemplating returning to AW and giving it a longer
try while WarBirds remains in it's current form. Thanks for saving me that
extra 60-100 bucks a month. A tiny drop of water for you, I'm sure. Go ahead
and build the player base you want...
<snicker>
>>I have no beef with you. If your pissed at
>>me
>
>pissed? You don't even rate 'midly annoyed'.
Then why bother? Your very posting betrays you. Pahh...you make this way too
easy.
>>because I won't jump on the "DoK is a God" bandwagon, well, I guess that's
>>your problem.
>
>guess I'll just have to live with that. Maybe I can find a good therapist
>to handle what will obviously develop into a deeply rooted psychosis...
That will be one lucky therapist. I suspect at least one good medical journal
article, perhaps a book...
>>Why can't his Grace speak for himself and answer the facts?
>
>If you think I'm presuming to speak for or defend DoK you're even
>more clueless than the first impression implied.
Hahaha!
Truly, you are your own self basting flame response. Be proud. Few manage to
reach that level and still function in day to day life.
Smut
Lewis Moose Gregory
>Mark S. Miller wrote:
>[snipped]
>>
>> It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
>> involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
>>
>All I wanna know is:
>Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all players, no?
I think ICI's handling that end. I hope they get 'em out quicker than
Kesmai has done; I'm still waiting for all four of the ones I'm supposed
to get from the four AW DoK scenarios I've been in. :) But trust me, the
jacket patch ain't nowhere near the reason I fly these things...
Check six,
Lewis "Moose" Gregory | POINTLESS PERSONAL INFORMATION:
lgre...@concentric.net | Truck: 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x2 Club Cab
mo...@broughton-sys.com | Computer: Gateway 2000 P5/133
7646...@compuserve.com | Web Page: http://www.cris.com/~lgregory
----------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
Air Warrior: #6340/#5241, C-land | CO 94th Composite Grp-"The Flying Squirrels"
WarBirds: "moos", green | <FS> WATCH YER NUTS! <FS>
----------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
white male libertarian conservative Southern redneck fat computer geek
made from only the finest Caucasian recyclables...and damn proud of it
FUCK THE CENSORS...fight the "Communications Decency Act"
Lewis Moose Gregory
>is there a WB equivalent for "A kill has been recorded"?
I guess it would be "Kill of sqid awarded to mogg". :)
Lewis Moose Gregory
>Rmy...@cris.com (SkyWolf ) wrote:
>>Then again... maybe it's so hard that no one else would TAKE the job.
>>Of course.. then YOU'D take it just to prove a point.... fuck it all
>>up... piss off more people than Dok ever has. (well.. that's a
>>stretch).
>>Did you think about how much knowledge and time it takes to set one of
>>these up before you opened your mouth and spewed?
>I've flown in one of Dok's scenarios' before (Eagle Day 1 I believe)
>and came away with a lot more respect for the guy than I had before it
>started.
That's saying something, Hawkeye...I've gotten a hold of archives of
your...ahem...entrance and exit (and exit and exit and exit) from the
Crash and Burn Cafe in late 1991 in the midst of the Aggie Wars... :)
Anyway...I don't even pretend to think that I could design and run a
scenario. I've expressed an interest in helping ACM Solomans, but that's
as far as it goes. I don't always agree with DoK's design concepts 100%,
but if I don't like them enough, I don't fly in the thing. There are
other people on Air Warrior who have run scenarios--Tadpole, Try Harder,
Shadow Demon, and others--and they have done a very good job as well. I'm
looking forward to see what other both DoK *and* other people might come
up with using WarBirds' better scenario tools (hopefully coming soon to an
ICI host near you).
Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
while waiting for takeoff... :)
COOPER
jrat...@cris.com (hawki) writes:
>Actually Moggy, Smut's a good guy, he just fires from the hip alot,
>kinda like thinking out loud on the internet. I believe beneath the
I'm not attacking him (well, not exactly) just his posts - don't know him,
probably buy him a beer if I met him - and he'd probably throw it in
my face. :>
>rhetoric Smut's just concerned that WB's has taken some steps
>backwards, which many of us here agree it has, but the potential for
>greatness is still there, and with guys like HT, Killer, DoK, Cal and
>the rest on the job it's going to far surpass what it used to be.
>Untill then I fly sparingly, logging on just long enuf to see how bad
No doubt - I've met 'em all face to face (all but dok more than
once), they're all damn capable, creative guys. Ya could argue
a case for genius at what they do (except Cal. :> :>) I consider
them all my friends, but that's not why I've been flaming.
been flaming cuz I miss it. It's fun. It's combat with words.
If the friggin pigs take it personally, tough titty.
>the warps are on a given nite, if not too bad, I fly, if bad, I don't.
pretty much the minimum playing requirement no matter WHAT the online
game. And 99 percent of it is NOT in the game providers control. It's
a DAMN tough business to be in, I work 65-70 hour 6 or 7 day weeks - I
have no doubt the other 4 do as well. The worst part is that after
65 hours of working on the sims, you don't want, even dread, playing
the game - the reason you got into the business in the first place.
I fly AW every now and then, but spend most of my off time doing stuff
like making 3D shapes for AW 2.0, reading, watching assinine TV, pretty
much anything but fly.
Remember when you complain, it's your hobby, it's their life. What
Dale and John have done in the past year is AMAZING - Mark and Steve
can only make it that much better. Be patient like Hawkeye, they'll
make your dream sim before too long - so will we. :>
Mark S. Miller
> In article <4glhur$c...@spectator.cris.com>, Coo...@cris.com (COOPER) wrote:
> >dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> My money is on -xx-.
>
> Or *any* of the other Pigs. Pick one. Don't worry, we don't gangbang.
>
> Better yet, how 'bout moggy and DoK vs any two of the Pigs, 2v2.
Oh yeah ... that's fucking brilliant ... duel two guys who fly nightly vs.
1 guy who's never flown WB and 1 who's too busy working on the fucking
game to fly it.
I expect no less from Smut.
-DoK
PS/ But ... if Mogg's and I ever get back into flying shape ... well ...
you'll just lose.
Mark S. Miller
"Moose" Gregory) wrote:
> I think ICI's handling that end. I hope they get 'em out quicker than
> Kesmai has done; I'm still waiting for all four of the ones I'm supposed
> to get from the four AW DoK scenarios I've been in. :) But trust me, the
> jacket patch ain't nowhere near the reason I fly these things...
Hey ... guess what ... I never got these either ... go figure.
-DoK
Lewis Moose Gregory
>> Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
>>of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
>>while waiting for takeoff... :)
>Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
>Same purpose, different command. :)
Except that here, he doesn't scroll it across your screen five times a
second, causing GB to pop a blood vessel and scream "STOP THAT, I'M TRYING
TO BRIEF HERE!"...
-Squid-
Ah well, your lack of intelect and reading comprehension shows again.
> really? The whole part about what he could possibly do to constructively
> further his cause didn't get to your site or through yer skull?
Here is a copy of your entire post.
GC> gotta pay closer attentin DoK - it was a guy who sez, pretty
GC> much, that he can design the perfect bug free scenario - or
GC> at least implies it.
GC> It only SOUNDS like a pig passing gas...
And where exactly did you metion ANYTHING constructively? You make this too easy.
> If I do, you'll know it when you blow up.
Talk is cheap, Big Shot. Bring it on.
> aw shucks, what can I POSSIBLY do to impress you?
Learn to read, and then learn to understand what you have read. It'll take you
some time, maybe even a couple of years, but trust me, it'll be worth it.
> ah. Well, I'd defend my squad mates. I guess I made another false
> assumption that you were loyal to your friends. This is really
> opening my eyes about the pigs.
Once again, you are completely lacking the ability to understand what you have read.
Where did I ever say I wouldn't defend smut? I merely said that I didn't in my reply.
He's a big boy, unlike you, and can handle is own arguments.
> darn. now I ain't gonna get any sleep for a month.
Here's some advice. Take that sleepless time and work on your reading skills.
> that makes the assumption that a flame is a lower form of endeavor.
Absolutely, in your case. There are some that are good at flaming, and can do it after
they've won the debate. You, however, used it a defense mechanism when it became clear
you were wrong.
> -foggy
> gary cooper (not the dead one, just the brain dead one)
-Squid-
hawki
> That's saying something, Hawkeye...I've gotten a hold of archives of
>your...ahem...entrance and exit (and exit and exit and exit) from the
>Crash and Burn Cafe in late 1991 in the midst of the Aggie Wars... :)
You mean the Aggie Slaughter? And my flame war with DoK? Hoo boy.
A good way to REALLY look a clueless dweeb is to show up at a online
sim and start talking like ya own the joint after flying for a whole
month. ;)
Hawkeye
kat...@cris.com
> That's saying something, Hawkeye...I've gotten a hold of archives of
>your...ahem...entrance and exit (and exit and exit and exit) from the
>Crash and Burn Cafe in late 1991 in the midst of the Aggie Wars... :)
Hehehe.
<Kat is crushed under the weight of skeletons falling out of Hawk's
closet>
> Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
>of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
>while waiting for takeoff... :)
Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
Same purpose, different command. :)
Hehe.
c==)--Katana----
BMERRICK
On 24 Feb 1996, -Squid- wrote:
>
> > -foggy
> > gary cooper (not the dead one, just the brain dead one)
>
> -Squid-
Ouch-now that was a kill
Nark
hawki
>In article <4gm2sk$s...@spectator.cris.com>, jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
>> [...] I believe beneath the
>> rhetoric Smut's just concerned that WB's has taken some steps
>> backwards, which many of us here agree it has, [...]
>That's not the impression he gives.
>He presents an image of one who has been somehow directly lied to
>or misled intentionally.
>Which is not the case at all. I think any statements made about WB
>reflect what is known at the time they're made. That's why they're
>called "plans." It's what we think we're gonna do, or what we think
>we wanna do, at the time.
>The thing distressing me the most is the warps. Trips has a theory
>that it's the PPP connections. I'm starting to believe that. I
>notice a lot more bizarre warps when I'm on PPP than when I'm on
>serial.
> -DoK
Agreed, I can wait for improvements, implementing ideas takes time.
It's the damn warps that are driving me batty. I've quit harping
about them because I know you guys know it's a major problem right
now, it's the one thing keeping the enjoyment level down right now,
for me anyways.
Hawkeye
Mark S. Miller
wrote:
> > msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) writes:
> >
> > And then you get your squadmates to enter the fray and demand that I
> > should be replaced:
>
> Don't try to lump -xx- and smut into being the same person. And don't assume
> that smut had anything to do with -xx- entering the fray.
Uh huh.
Given Smut's penchant for conspiracy theories, I find the number of FP's
attacking me here to be at least noteworthy.
SkyWolf
> Except that here, he doesn't scroll it across your screen five times a
>second, causing GB to pop a blood vessel and scream "STOP THAT, I'M TRYING
>TO BRIEF HERE!"...
hehe.. GB pops a blood vessel over everything.
SkyWolf
<---------------------------------------------------------->
"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress" (The Tick.)
Rmy...@cris.com
SkyWolf -=56=- AW \/ skyw WarBirds (tm)
http://www.cris.com/~rmyers It's SkyWolf's Lair
I will NEVER say "Finger me"
<---------------------------------------------------------->
kat...@cris.com
>You mean the Aggie Slaughter? And my flame war with DoK? Hoo boy.
>A good way to REALLY look a clueless dweeb is to show up at a online
>sim and start talking like ya own the joint after flying for a whole
>month. ;)
Yeah, that would never happen in WB <snicker>.
ICI should hire ole Hawkeye as the "Newbie Player Liaison" so he can
teach how *not* to make an entrance in the online flightsim community.
hehehe
c==)--Katana----
Blue Baron
I have worked at Kesmai, has any customer been flamed by a representative of this firm,
strictly for offering a suggestion on how to improve the game. AW remains a collaboration of
customer and developer, as it must and should be.
You may now resume the egg throwing ;)
BB
hawki
>jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
>c==)--Katana----
Ya got that right Kat! ICI, I can be bought, cheap too. ;)
(Drum, ya got my permission to post any of my old letters, but ya
gotta post DoK's reply as well, they were beuts!)
Hawkeye
hawki
>jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
>>You mean the Aggie Slaughter? And my flame war with DoK? Hoo boy.
>>A good way to REALLY look a clueless dweeb is to show up at a online
>>sim and start talking like ya own the joint after flying for a whole
>>month. ;)
>Yeah, that would never happen in WB <snicker>.
>ICI should hire ole Hawkeye as the "Newbie Player Liaison" so he can
>teach how *not* to make an entrance in the online flightsim community.
>hehehe
>c==)--Katana----
Oops, did I say Drum? I meant "Moose". ;)
Hawkeye
YOSS
Mark S. Miller <msmi...@rahul.net> wrote:
>In article <4glilq$d...@spectator.cris.com>, Yo...@cris.com (YOSS) wrote:
>
>> Snak, the patch is in /pub/wbfiles/dos, "kiel04.exe."
>> You'll have to manually copy it to a 3.5" floppy,
>> and don't forget to use a THICK needle when you sew
>> it on your jacket.
>
>That's not quite fair.
>
>All the needed materials are in ICI's hands.
>
>Boomer has agreed that this is something ICI would do.
>
>If it gets fucked up ... I will deal with it next time and expense it back
>to them. Jamming shit into 250 fucking envelopes may, of course, put me in
>a bad mood and make me somewhat boorish and overbearing.
>
> -DoK
>
Didn't mean to imply you wouldn't; just failing an attempt to
be "funny." I thought that was clear in my post. The patches
that needed to get out quickly (i.e. kiel04) did.
Yoss (had a blast over Kiel, btw)
hehe . . . you *really* thought I was pissed off that I didn't
get a patch?? Man, I need to add more smileys or something.
--
-------------------------------------------------
| WB:yoss (Yossarian VF-17, the Jolly Rogers) 8X |
| http://www2.hawaii.edu/~clumpkin/yoss.html |
-------------------------------------------------
kat...@cris.com
>Oops, did I say Drum? I meant "Moose". ;)
He's gonna KILL you for that one. :)
c==)--Katana----
Lawrence Lai
:>
:>lgre...@concentric.net (Lewis "Moose" Gregory) wrote:
:>
:>> Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
:>>of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
:>>while waiting for takeoff... :)
:>
:>Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
:>
:>Same purpose, different command. :)
:>
:>Hehe.
Yup. Different lingo, but the same brand of hate.
*Sparrow*
Lawrence Lai
:>
:>jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
:>
:>>Oops, did I say Drum? I meant "Moose". ;)
:>
:>He's gonna KILL you for that one. :)
Hell, Drum's got nothing on some of the pinheads here in WB. I actually sorta
(gulp) like him now. Keep in mind that my idea of a fuckin' asshole is a
relative thing <g>.
Mark S. Miller
> You mean the Aggie Slaughter?
I still miss "Aggie Nites".
Mark S. Miller
> lgre...@concentric.net (Lewis "Moose" Gregory) wrote:
>
> > Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
> >of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
> >while waiting for takeoff... :)
>
> Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
>
> Same purpose, different command. :)
Same fucking problem too.
kat...@cris.com
>:>>Oops, did I say Drum? I meant "Moose". ;)
>:>
>:>He's gonna KILL you for that one. :)
>
>
>Hell, Drum's got nothing on some of the pinheads here in WB. I actually sorta
>(gulp) like him now. Keep in mind that my idea of a fuckin' asshole is a
>relative thing <g>.
Very good point. :)
Kat
-Squid-
> 1 guy who's never flown WB and 1 who's too busy working on the fucking
> game to fly it.
It was wrong of smut to bring you into it, but it was foggy that brought the
whole issue up in the first place...
> PS/ But ... if Mogg's and I ever get back into flying shape ... well ...
> you'll just lose.
Well, talk is cheap. Actions, however, are worth a little more.
-Squid-
-Squid-
>
> Given Smut's penchant for conspiracy theories, I find the number of FP's
> attacking me here to be at least noteworthy.
We know why you and smut don't get along. -xx- formed his opinion of you
in AW. I don't see any other Pigs attacking you.
-Squid-
Marko Milisavljevic
<snip>
> >VF-33 <The F'ing Pigs>
>
> oh no. I've got a squad after me. Might actually be enough to
> force me to find the time to play. 'Course judging from yer spew, yer
> a bunch of dweebs...
>
> -moggy
I routinely skip content-free threads, but this caught my eye.
I hope the above wasn't just empty posturing. Bring some buddies.
> gary cooper (not the dead one) 804 963 8539 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You never know ;)
Mili <F'ing Pigs>
--
Marko Milisavljevic mailto:mi...@cris.com
Montreal, Canada http://www.cris.com/~mili
Lewis Moose Gregory
>kat...@cris.com wrote:
>>jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
>>>You mean the Aggie Slaughter? And my flame war with DoK? Hoo boy.
>>>A good way to REALLY look a clueless dweeb is to show up at a online
>>>sim and start talking like ya own the joint after flying for a whole
>>>month. ;)
>>Yeah, that would never happen in WB <snicker>.
>>ICI should hire ole Hawkeye as the "Newbie Player Liaison" so he can
>>teach how *not* to make an entrance in the online flightsim community.
>>hehehe
>>c==)--Katana----
>Oops, did I say Drum? I meant "Moose". ;)
You bandit. :)
Michael Fletcher
>Remember when you complain, it's your hobby, it's their life. What
>Dale and John have done in the past year is AMAZING - Mark and Steve
>can only make it that much better. Be patient like Hawkeye, they'll
>make your dream sim before too long - so will we. :>
>
>-moggy
I wouldn't mind two "Dream Sims". Fine by me. I'm an easy going
patient guy! (;
Course if I don't get it by 6pm today - I start flaming and
whining randomly!!! (:
--)-Fletchman---- (flet) Musketeer Squadron (mfl...@cris.com)
http://www.cris.com/~mfletch/
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Musketeer can see 1000 miles, and fly 1000 miles!
He can hide in the shadow of the Noon Day Sun!
He could be right behind you and you wouldn't ever know it
until you're Dead!
-------------------------------------------------------------
MJes...@aol.com
>
>> lgre...@concentric.net (Lewis "Moose" Gregory) wrote:
>>
>> > Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
>> >of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
>> >while waiting for takeoff... :)
>>
>> Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
>>
>> Same purpose, different command. :)
>
>Same fucking problem too.
>
> -DoK
I don't really think so, but it _might_ make a difference if we
knew what special capabilities the Campaign Manager and CO's
have in WarBirds scenarios. Then _some_ people would understand
why selecting planes with alacrity on demand (for instance)
is so important to keep the event on schedule.
Besides, I'm curious ;)
- Matt
WB: para
JG14
Mark S. Miller
> msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) wrote:
> >In article <312f9f77...@news.cris.com>, kat...@cris.com wrote:
> >
> >> lgre...@concentric.net (Lewis "Moose" Gregory) wrote:
> >>
> >> > Besides, you WarBirds guys have never had to hear a continuous chorus
> >> >of "/RES 10 YOU FUCKING DWEEBS" /ANNounced over and over and over again
> >> >while waiting for takeoff... :)
> >>
> >> Yeah, now it's "EVERYONE PICK YOUR GAWDDAMN PLANES !!"
> >>
> >> Same purpose, different command. :)
> >
> >Same fucking problem too.
>
> I don't really think so, but it _might_ make a difference if we
> knew what special capabilities the Campaign Manager and CO's
> have in WarBirds scenarios. Then _some_ people would understand
> why selecting planes with alacrity on demand (for instance)
> is so important to keep the event on schedule.
No. They wouldn't. And if they did somehow understand, that doesn't
mean they'd actually follow the instructions.
Trust me on this.
Dave Williams
>jrat...@cris.com (hawki) wrote:
>>You mean the Aggie Slaughter? And my flame war with DoK? Hoo boy.
>>A good way to REALLY look a clueless dweeb is to show up at a online
>>sim and start talking like ya own the joint after flying for a whole
>>month. ;)
>Yeah, that would never happen in WB <snicker>.
>ICI should hire ole Hawkeye as the "Newbie Player Liaison" so he can
>teach how *not* to make an entrance in the online flightsim community.
>hehehe
>c==)--Katana----
You might wanna offer Jeffrey Dillman a consulting position. :)
WarBirds Prophet "Prft" F.L.<401st RCAF RS>
"Mors Celerrima Hostibus"
WarBirds http://guild.bc.ca/~prophet/
Razorback
> >And if ICI wants to fire me for saying all this - right now I could care
> >less - I've taken your shit now for almost 2 months and enough is enough.
>
> ICI fire you because of me? HA! Don't act like such a martyr.
>
> Poor DoK, you sound like a tired old woman. Can't come up with any real facts,
> so you just call me a liar. Can't stand it when a GL stands up for his troops,
> so you call me names. Can't tell the truth because you've forgotten what the
> truth is...
>
> Smut
Now I hate to be one to agree with smut but WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH DoK?
DoK SHOULD be fired! I don't care how much of a pain smut is (and smut IS
a pain) there is no call for this public baby-shit from an ICI employee.
DEAL with it DoK.
Magnus "Razorback" Lekay (-rb-)
2nd Lieutenant/Chief Recruiting Officer
352nd FG, "Blue Nosers", War Birds
51-27 Falcon3 Ladder, Prodigy
Member: Damage Inc. (Team Prodigy) 1995 ITFWC
3rd Place ITFWC 1995
Razorback
> I, for one, would like to see somebody else get a shot at doing scenarios
> for ICI, and since I am only one person and can only really vote with my
> dollars, I won't play scenarios if DoK is involved as author/operator.
>
> After hearing about him flying the 17 around in the arena as a gunship
> when he was preparing a scenario, I lost any desire whatsoever to be
> involved in his antics.
>
> -XX-
>
I agree completely. Please ICI, replace DoK if he refuses to curb his
attitude when he is running a scenario. This is not professional
attitude.
Daniel Drumm
: > msmi...@rahul.net (Mark S. Miller) writes:
: >
: > And then you get your squadmates to enter the fray and demand that I
: > should be replaced:
: Don't try to lump -xx- and smut into being the same person. And don't assume
: that smut had anything to do with -xx- entering the fray.
Indeed. I jumped in, not to defend Smut's position that he was wronged in
Kiel, rather that I don't like the way DoK runs scenarios in general and
will not play them if he is the MC.
: > It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
: > 20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
: > your life for that month.
Then don't do it.
: > But hey ... anyone else is more than welcome to try. Most of the things
: > which must be added for scenario support are on the table ... not sure
: > when they'll all get here ... and hopefully we'll get the WWW-based
: > reg/scoring system up in the next few weeks.
In my opinion, more than a few people on GEnie have been put off by DoK.
I can't believe there aren't others out there with a background in WWII
history, Web skills, and can be taught how to watch UNIX processes that
wouldn't like a shot at it. I don't think that just because DoK does all
this work and tells us how much work it is, we should necessarily be
thankful it exists at all.
I, for one, would like to see somebody else get a shot at doing scenarios
for ICI, and since I am only one person and can only really vote with my
dollars, I won't play scenarios if DoK is involved as author/operator.
After hearing about him flying the 17 around in the arena as a gunship
when he was preparing a scenario, I lost any desire whatsoever to be
involved in his antics.
-XX-
--
-
Daniel G. Drumm | dr...@tezcat.com | http://www.tezcat.com/~drmm
PGP 2.6.2 Public Key Available by Finger or WWW
Member of Chicago's Finest ISP
Daniel Drumm
: "James G. Schuldes" <j...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
: >Mark S. Miller wrote:
: >[snipped]
: >>
: >> It's real easy to sit back and throw stones. It's only when you get
: >> involved in this process that you realize what the deal really is.
: >>
: >All I wanna know is:
If the game was not worth playing, most wouldn't play it. Right
now, I think WB is awesome. The connection for players with solid ping
times allows for crisp movement, the flight models are pretty decent for
any stand alone FS, the graphics are just beyond reproach and the overall
product is priced fairly.
I have never had anything but respect for the technical achievements
brought forth here, perhaps because I do a bit of programming myself.
But I think DoK and moggy are assholes to flame people who pay for the
game when they ask reasonable questions about what to expect in the future.
But then, I left Air Warrior because of dickheads like moggy and I hope
others would join me and just walk on scenarios until DoK gets replaced.
Daniel Drumm
: In article <4gn16v$i...@spectator.cris.com>, -Squid- <VF-33@The.F'ing.Pigs>
: wrote:
: > Don't try to lump -xx- and smut into being the same person. And don't assume
: > that smut had anything to do with -xx- entering the fray.
: Uh huh.
: Given Smut's penchant for conspiracy theories, I find the number of FP's
: attacking me here to be at least noteworthy.
: -DoK
We have a clause that you can't join the FP, unless you think DoK is a
pompous dickhead.
Daniel Drumm
: > My money is on -xx-.
: >
: > Or *any* of the other Pigs. Pick one. Don't worry, we don't gangbang.
: >
: > Better yet, how 'bout moggy and DoK vs any two of the Pigs, 2v2.
: Oh yeah ... that's fucking brilliant ... duel two guys who fly nightly vs.
: 1 guy who's never flown WB and 1 who's too busy working on the fucking
: game to fly it.
: I expect no less from Smut.
: -DoK
: PS/ But ... if Mogg's and I ever get back into flying shape ... well ...
: you'll just lose.
Well then, quit whining and get back into shape. Geez, you're worse than
the Iraqi apologists.
Daniel Drumm
: jrat...@cris.com (hawki) writes:
: If the friggin pigs take it personally, tough titty.
Nahh, it's fun. The whole online arena is fun. It's a game.
: I fly AW every now and then, but spend most of my off time doing stuff
: like making 3D shapes for AW 2.0, reading, watching assinine TV, pretty
: much anything but fly.
: Remember when you complain, it's your hobby, it's their life. What
: Dale and John have done in the past year is AMAZING - Mark and Steve
: can only make it that much better. Be patient like Hawkeye, they'll
: make your dream sim before too long - so will we. :>
: -moggy
Well, if there were awards for online sims (there probably are some
programming awards), WB should sweep for what they have done. I've played
Papryus' online NASCAR, and Mechwarrior H2H, and simply nothing is in
WB's class.
Also, and I realize this is my bias, I have always enjoyed WWII military
aviation. From the time I was 10, and started playing Avalon Hill's
AIRFORCE, then later DAUNTLESS, these planes combined with the enless A&E
documentaries, make this game a blast.
-XX-
(who think moggy takes this all a bit personally, himself)
Daniel Drumm
: ah. Well, I'd defend my squad mates. I guess I made another false
: assumption that you were loyal to your friends. This is really
: opening my eyes about the pigs.
Hehehehehee. First, you are mad that the Pigs are all yelling about
Kesmai and DoK, then you say that we don't stick up for each other enough.
Who needs the '96 campaign to hear doublespeak?
-XX-
VF-33 The F'ing Pigs
Daniel Drumm
: mechanisms to run 'em and score 'em. They started as 30- or 40-player
: 1-afternoon specials and have evolved into 200+ player month-long
: monsters. And, until 6 months ago, this was totally uncompensated for. In
: the early years, I had to _pay_ $6/fucking hour to sit on the ground and
: monitor events (GEnie's wonderful billing system at work).
You act as if this was some unbearable chore and you didn't get totally
off on the power trip it gave you in the GEnie forum.
: Where I come from, that kind of dedication to an idea and to a group of
: people (i.e. the players - having someone like Grey Eagle land after a
: mission and tell me his "hands are still shaking" is my real reward)
: deserves - and demands - respect. Is that too hard a concept for you to
: understand?
:
: -DoK
Miller, face it. You're a legend. Ok?
You got just as much out of it by being able to say you ran it, and
bashing everybody online in the forums who you didn't like and quickly
gaining this ridiculous reputation as a complete boorish prick who
treated the whole damn thing like his personal playground and acted too
good for everybody.
Now, you are getting PAID to run these events. And if the money isn't
enough, and you STILL devote too much time to it, and have so many other
pressing concerns in your private life then do us all a favor and step down.
-XX-
Daniel Drumm
: tom...@atc.ameritel.net (CJ Martin) writes:
: >Now you suggest that complaints must include suggestions on how to make
: >things better in order to be taken at face value. What a load of shit. I've
: >heard this tired arguement before, and it hold no water in my eyes.
: tired? Didn't see the Newsweek story about common courtesy being
: proclaimed tired.
: --
: gary cooper (not the dead one) 804 963 8539
: mailto:mo...@kesmai.com
: Kesmai Corp. Air Warrior/Harpoon Product Support
: http://www.cris.com/~cooper
I think this pretty much says it all about Kesmai, Moggy, Air Warrior and
the whole attitude of a bunch of pricks with their noses out of joint.
You've seen thier level of professionalism, and now all of you reading
this can decide to vote with your wallet.
I did.
kat...@cris.com
>> I don't really think so, but it _might_ make a difference if we
>> knew what special capabilities the Campaign Manager and CO's
>> have in WarBirds scenarios. Then _some_ people would understand
>> why selecting planes with alacrity on demand (for instance)
>> is so important to keep the event on schedule.
>
>No. They wouldn't. And if they did somehow understand, that doesn't
>mean they'd actually follow the instructions.
>
>Trust me on this.
Dok speaks the truth. Everyone knew what /res 10 was for and it never
made a difference.
To satisfy your curiosity, it allows a "roll call" of countries...just
like picking your plane does in WB...so the CM knows when everyone is
up to strength and how many are there for each side.
c==)--Katana----
Lewis Moose Gregory
>COOPER (Coo...@cris.com) wrote:
>: tom...@atc.ameritel.net (CJ Martin) writes:
>: >Now you suggest that complaints must include suggestions on how to make
>: >things better in order to be taken at face value. What a load of shit. I've
>: >heard this tired arguement before, and it hold no water in my eyes.
>: tired? Didn't see the Newsweek story about common courtesy being
>: proclaimed tired.
>: --
>: gary cooper (not the dead one) 804 963 8539
>: mailto:mo...@kesmai.com
>: Kesmai Corp. Air Warrior/Harpoon Product Support
>: http://www.cris.com/~cooper
>I think this pretty much says it all about Kesmai, Moggy, Air Warrior and
>the whole attitude of a bunch of pricks with their noses out of joint.
>You've seen thier level of professionalism, and now all of you reading
>this can decide to vote with your wallet.
Understand this: When Moggy is working as a representative of Kesmai
in his customer support capacity, I have NEVER seen him flame, or be any
less than professional toward, ANYBODY. Even the people that damn well
deserved it. If he wants to do some verbal charring "on his own time",
that's his business. To paint Kesmai, or the whole AW community, as "a
bunch of pricks with their noses out of joint", is as gratuitous a slam as
anything that Moggy's ever going to come up with in here, and more. Just
remember where most of the ICI guys got their start in online flying.
CJ Martin
>>
>> Given Smut's penchant for conspiracy theories, I find the number of FP's
>> attacking me here to be at least noteworthy.
>
>in AW. I don't see any other Pigs attacking you.
>
>-Squid-
What Squid said...
Given that there are over 20 active Pigs right now, I think DoK is the one with
a conspiracy theory. FYI, DoK, never *ever* did I ask any of the Pigs gang up on
you here in usenet. Blame your pal moggy for that. He is the one that wants to
question both the abilities and loyalities of the Pigs.
If we were playing by moggy's rules, you *would* see a usenet gangbang. However,
that is not who the Pigs are or what we are about.
Smut
James G Schuldes
> In article <312E25...@csd.uwm.edu>, "James G. Schuldes"
> <j...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> >
> > All I wanna know is:
> >
> > Where is my patch for playing in Kiel? You promised patches for all
> players, no?
>
> Yes.
>
> The 300dpi design was sent to FT a couple weeks back.
>
> The mailing list was sent to Boomer last weekend - had to get the walk-ons
> in there.
>
> As far as I know, it's being handled.
Cool! Great news! I am glad it didn't drop thru the cracks.
Hey ICI? can I get the t-shirt franchise?
hehee,
sNaK!! out.
Jim Schuldes
Information Processing Consultant
School of Business Administration
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
(414) 229-3893
James G Schuldes
> In article <4glilq$d...@spectator.cris.com>, Yo...@cris.com (YOSS) wrote:
>
> > Snak, the patch is in /pub/wbfiles/dos, "kiel04.exe."
> > You'll have to manually copy it to a 3.5" floppy,
> > and don't forget to use a THICK needle when you sew
> > it on your jacket.
>
> That's not quite fair.
>
But funny!
> All the needed materials are in ICI's hands.
>
> Boomer has agreed that this is something ICI would do.
Yes, both DoK and Boom have sent me mail saying same thing. Patches are
OTW!!!
>
> If it gets fucked up ... I will deal with it next time and expense it back
> to them. Jamming shit into 250 fucking envelopes may, of course, put me in
> a bad mood and make me somewhat boorish and overbearing.
>
Dok in a bad mood? ya gotta be kidding me!
sNaK! out.
Mark S. Miller
> Now I hate to be one to agree with smut but WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH DoK?
> DoK SHOULD be fired! I don't care how much of a pain smut is (and smut IS
> a pain) there is no call for this public baby-shit from an ICI employee.
> DEAL with it DoK.
I'm not an employee, I'm a consultant.
ICI is more than free to sever our relationship any time they wish.
Give Jokker or Boomer a call - get it done.
Dave Chaloux
|>
|> I think ICI's handling that end. I hope they get 'em out quicker than
|> Kesmai has done; I'm still waiting for all four of the ones I'm supposed
|> to get from the four AW DoK scenarios I've been in. :) But trust me, the
|> jacket patch ain't nowhere near the reason I fly these things...
|>
|>
Same here on the "ain't near the reason I fly..." stuff. Also waiting for
my patch from Sicily.
Dave "French" Chaloux
Mark S. Miller
wrote:
> : > It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
> : > 20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
> : > your life for that month.
>
> Then don't do it.
I made a commitment to do it. I guess that's a concept that's beyond your
comprehension.
I detailed how much work it is because the thread had shifted toward having
others do the job. Well, they better know what they're getting into -
otherwise the event will collapse and ICI will look bad and players will
get pissed off.
> In my opinion, more than a few people on GEnie have been put off by DoK.
No duh. Including GEnie, I been banned from there real often when I was
more active.
> I can't believe there aren't others out there with a background in WWII
> history, Web skills, and can be taught how to watch UNIX processes that
> wouldn't like a shot at it.
What's the matter with YOU? You're so willing to rip someone else's work
apart, but I don't see you volunteering to get up in front of the WB
populace and be a target.
Nothing prevents someone else from trying to run an event. Once the online
reg/scoring is in place, it'll get even easier. Hell, I'd be more than
willing to just provide the designs and let more "reasonable" characters
deal with the online/BBS stuff.
> I, for one, would like to see somebody else get a shot at doing scenarios
> for ICI, and since I am only one person and can only really vote with my
> dollars,
Again ... give Jokker or Boomer a call ... get me removed. If enough of
you "paying customers" rise up, you can get it done. Maybe.
> I won't play scenarios if DoK is involved as author/operator.
I can see the latter, but the former is just stoopid.
And, quite frankly, it's your loss.
Daniel Drumm
: Understand this: When Moggy is working as a representative of Kesmai
: in his customer support capacity, I have NEVER seen him flame, or be any
: less than professional toward, ANYBODY. Even the people that damn well
: deserved it. If he wants to do some verbal charring "on his own time",
: that's his business. To paint Kesmai, or the whole AW community, as "a
: bunch of pricks with their noses out of joint", is as gratuitous a slam as
: anything that Moggy's ever going to come up with in here, and more. Just
: remember where most of the ICI guys got their start in online flying.
No doubt that Air Warrior was the genesis and perhaps inspiration for
what WB has accomplished. I played AW, I flew with a very professional
squadron, I had a pretty good time when I was up with the Angels of
Destruction, Tomb, Twist and HardRock.
But the GEnie forum was a wash, for crybabies and assholes who totally
lost perspective on what they were dealing with.
I may deserve Moggy's flames. I don't think I do, but you may. But,
understand this: If you represent a corporation, and use that
corporation's account to post things about or relating to your product,
there is no distinguishing "your time" from "company time".
Especially when you have it all as bragging rights in your .sig.
You need to maintain a degree of professionalism at all times.
If you don't, and you flame from your company account, your words are
that company speaking. I don't see how it can be distinguished. In a
libel case, the law certainly wouldn't allow for such a "personal time"
split.
HT, Killer, Boomer, and Caligula have all maintained a very high degree
of professionalism throughout this beta period, and into the pay period
when many whined that the product was not ready for pay. Many people said
some things that were WAY out of line, like they were doing ICI a favor
by beta testing the game. People totally forgot that was a complete favor
to the online community. For MONTHS.
I have never slighted the character of any ICI full time employee. I have
the highest respect for their product. When packet loss occurs, and the
plane's orientation data gets loss, I am always amazed by how smooth the
corrections are, and how basically smooth the planes move at 9600 baud
telnet transactions, at 20fps. Simply awesome.
But DoK, and Moggy are emotional 14 year olds, unable to hold their
tempers. It was worse in the GEnie forum, where many many players had
this "old boys club" approach to the game, even though they hadn't
programmed a line of code.
Until DoK's arrival, WB was wonderfully free of that "we've been here
longer, you are a newbie so piss off" attitude that dismissed 90% of most
suggestions. Well, I don't wan't to see it. Esp. from DoK, who for years
just droned endlessly about how good he was, but who almost never flew
online, and when he did, would take a 51 into the stratosphere.
-XX-
VF-33 <The F'ing Pigs>
COOPER
>And remember, in cyberspace, no one can *hear* you scream...
UNTIL we get voice comms - it's coming.....
MUAHAHAHA!
-moggy
COOPER
>> I think ICI's handling that end. I hope they get 'em out quicker than
>> Kesmai has done; I'm still waiting for all four of the ones I'm supposed
>> to get from the four AW DoK scenarios I've been in. :) But trust me, the
>> jacket patch ain't nowhere near the reason I fly these things...
>Hey ... guess what ... I never got these either ... go figure.
All y'all had to do was grab 'em at the con. Send me some
email at mo...@kesmai.com with your address and the events
flown in (DoK gets 'em all) and I'll get 'em too ya.
COOPER
>> > gary cooper (not the dead one, just the brain dead one)
>>
>Ouch-now that was a kill
oh yeah. I'm in intense pain. ow. ow. ow.
-foggy
COOPER
>> Oh yeah ... that's fucking brilliant ... duel two guys who fly nightly vs.
>> 1 guy who's never flown WB and 1 who's too busy working on the fucking
>> game to fly it.
>It was wrong of smut to bring you into it, but it was foggy that brought the
>whole issue up in the first place...
Well, not to belittle your skills, I have no fears about DoK and
myself. I'm sure if we engaged in a dogfight you would beat us.
We'd use wingman pair energy tactics though. A continual series
of ropes and handoffs. I'm very good at that. DoK's one of the
best.
Give me DoK, Anvil and Twist, and I'll take on any number you care
to field.
>> PS/ But ... if Mogg's and I ever get back into flying shape ... well ...
>> you'll just lose.
>Well, talk is cheap. Actions, however, are worth a little more.
You might have seen the announcement that AW is going onto AOL so
I'm kinda busy. I really would like to - I hope to before too awfully
long.
COOPER
>Indeed. I jumped in, not to defend Smut's position that he was wronged in
>Kiel, rather that I don't like the way DoK runs scenarios in general and
>will not play them if he is the MC.
ok - flame mode off.
Why does it bother you? Ok, his language can be vitriolic and
'boorish', but, so what? Does that lessen you enjoyment of the
engagements, or is it a political stand. If the latter you're only
hurting yourself.
Personally, I find DoK's word usage to be hilarious - yes, even
when it is directed at me. They're only words and, though it's the
most tired cliche in existance, "sticks and stones' REALLY should
be applied to both the online verbage and the 'net posts. Semantics
only bothers if you let it.
>: > It sucks. It's a rotten, time-consuming job than can easily consume over
>: > 20 hours a week - if you're GOOD at it. If it's your first time - cancel
>: > your life for that month.
>Then don't do it.
Why can't you just acknowledge that he does and that is it
difficult and just offer a little gratitude.
>In my opinion, more than a few people on GEnie have been put off by DoK.
and infinetly more have been educated and entertained by him.
>I can't believe there aren't others out there with a background in WWII
>history, Web skills, and can be taught how to watch UNIX processes that
>wouldn't like a shot at it. I don't think that just because DoK does all
>this work and tells us how much work it is, we should necessarily be
>thankful it exists at all.
It takes more skill than those you mentioned - others have tried it
and failed. Others have tried it and suceeded - that neither belittles
nor enhances dok's contributions, they are judged by their own
merit - and they are the best gaming experience, bar none, that I have
ever encountered. That goes from playing D&D in junior high to field
wargames against as Soviet Airborne OPFOR against the U.S. Military.
>I, for one, would like to see somebody else get a shot at doing scenarios
>for ICI, and since I am only one person and can only really vote with my
>dollars, I won't play scenarios if DoK is involved as author/operator.
your prerogative - ICI has publicy said anyone can set up scenarios - I'm
sure lots of folks would like to see your designes.
>After hearing about him flying the 17 around in the arena as a gunship
>when he was preparing a scenario, I lost any desire whatsoever to be
>involved in his antics.
ok - just a little 'devils advocate' - what if he was flying around in
the arena like that to see what the beast was capable of in case it
could effect the outcome of his design? What if he wanted to make sure
17's would not be able to hunt FW's?
Assuming he did it SOLELY for the hate factor doesn't give him
enough credit - credit he deserves.
-gary
COOPER
>But I think DoK and moggy are assholes to flame people who pay for the
>game when they ask reasonable questions about what to expect in the future.
not entirely true - if smut had been resonable I wouldn't have said
anything. I LIKE reasonable questions. They make it easy to fix problems.
>But then, I left Air Warrior because of dickheads like moggy and I hope
>others would join me and just walk on scenarios until DoK gets replaced.
in what way was I ever a dickhead to you? Never heard of you before.
-moggy
COOPER
>Nahh, it's fun. The whole online arena is fun. It's a game.
exactly. Feel the same way about this 'arena'.
>Well, if there were awards for online sims (there probably are some
>programming awards), WB should sweep for what they have done. I've played
they've worked miracles, no doubt.
>Also, and I realize this is my bias, I have always enjoyed WWII military
>aviation. From the time I was 10, and started playing Avalon Hill's
ditto - did a book report on Baa Baa Black Sheep in the 4th grade
when the other dweebs were doing The Mouse and the Motorcycle..
Have a degree in history with a specialization in Aviation History.
Working in this genre of the industry is a dream job.
>(who think moggy takes this all a bit personally, himself)
only the implications that I ignore customers - found the whole
'foggy' pun and the 'note the dead one, but the brain dead one' to
be mighty humorous...
-foggy
COOPER
>If we were playing by moggy's rules, you *would* see a usenet gangbang. However,
damn - I knew I was good, but I never imagined that *I* counted as
a gangbang!
Bill
>
> >
> > >And if ICI wants to fire me for saying all this - right now I could care
> > >less - I've taken your shit now for almost 2 months and enough is enough.
> >
> > ICI fire you because of me? HA! Don't act like such a martyr.
> >
> > Poor DoK, you sound like a tired old woman. Can't come up with any real facts,
> > so you just call me a liar. Can't stand it when a GL stands up for his troops,
> > so you call me names. Can't tell the truth because you've forgotten what the
> > truth is...
> >
> > Smut
>
> Now I hate to be one to agree with smut but WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH DoK?
> DoK SHOULD be fired! I don't care how much of a pain smut is (and smut IS
> a pain) there is no call for this public baby-shit from an ICI employee.
> DEAL with it DoK.
>
> 2nd Lieutenant/Chief Recruiting Officer
> 352nd FG, "Blue Nosers", War Birds
>
> 51-27 Falcon3 Ladder, Prodigy
> Member: Damage Inc. (Team Prodigy) 1995 ITFWC
> 3rd Place ITFWC 1995
Have any of you ever seen Dok, I have! He is a Richard Simmons look alike. He get off on using
profanity on-line. Everytime he uses the "F" word he goes into a coner and wacks off.
Yes, he is quite the hero! FIRE HIM!
Mormon
SkyWolf
>
>We have a clause that you can't join the FP, unless you think DoK is a
>pompous dickhead.
>-XX-
I think you are a pompous dickhead... What do I get for that?
SkyWolf
<---------------------------------------------------------->
"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress" (The Tick.)
Rmy...@cris.com
SkyWolf -=56=- AW \/ skyw WarBirds (tm)
http://www.cris.com/~rmyers It's SkyWolf's Lair
I will NEVER say "Finger me"
<---------------------------------------------------------->
CJ Martin
Well said, my fellow swine.
I don't usually quote an entire post, but this one bears re-reading.
Smut
(-xx-, the check is in the mail <g>)
CJ Martin
>dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) wrote:
>
>>
>
>>We have a clause that you can't join the FP, unless you think DoK is a
>>pompous dickhead.
>
>>-XX-
>
>I think you are a pompous dickhead... What do I get for that?
>
>SkyWolf
A bag of PigShit?
<g>
Smut
(wondering why nobody voted for him in the "who's the biggest asshole
on WarBirds thread)